I don't deny there were internment camps, but the numbers don't add up. The numbers have significantly gone down from 6 million, to 4 million, to 1.5 million, to 600,000 in some instances. The American Red Cross had 125K+ victims....of mainly Typhus. And the reds counted 85K.
Heard of Eisenhower's Holocaust? If you stand for victims, German soldiers too, were treated in worse conditions and starved. Or do you only choose from a certain people?
@bluehavencd you know sir, sometimes i have to wonder, what goes thru a holocaust deniers head. there must be something within him that keeps him stubbornly from accepting that there was a horrific crime without parallel in human history performed on the jewish people. there must be a hardness of heart that for the denier, despite all the literal tons & tons of evidence of one of the most documented events in recorded history he just wont believe it NO MATTER WHAT. could it just be you hate jews
@stanbrekston I am of Sephardic lineage, so I can't hate Jews. I just tire of the lies and BS associated with the "holocaust" I don't see Sephardics in world affairs as much as I see Ashkenazics, and always with some sort of politics behind it.
@bluehavencd that's bullshit! there's a such thing as, 'self hate'. hitler may have had it. heydrich too. but i have a question: is there anything, ANYTHING one can do to convince you that the holocaust against the jews, as it is defined, actually took place? & if there is something that would convince you, what is it? if there is NOTHING that would convince you, then as a die-hard denier who's mind is already made up, we're just wasting our time debating it aren't we?
@stanbrekston My question is, How many American lives, how many lives of other people were lost? Why is this all about Ashkenazics and no additional emphasis on other people's lives or even how many Sephardic Jews were lost in Spain under Franco? And remember Franco was Hitler's pal. The camps took place, yes. No denying. But history always further vilifies an opossing force for the "lesser" evil/greater good. Take note on the American Indian called savages, also in my lineage.
@bluehavencd although you avoided my question i will attempt to answer yours. if i'm not too far off americans lost over 200,000 lives in ww2. as for Ashkenazics & Sephardic jews, the nazis didn't make a distinction so why should you? to them a jew was a jew. now i'll attempt to ask you another question. the 100th anniversary of the sinking of the titanic is due in april. do you think this event is a hoax like the holocaust? if yes, then please explain. if not, why not?
@stanbrekston 200K is correct 291K TBE. The Nazis had a category of "michlings" plus as many as 150K Jews served under Germany during WW2. There's a difference between both and one like me knows it. It's just the ones om power that are the problem, the hard working class I don't. Yes theTitanic happened an many things happened from human error to saving money and shoddy materials. If you need the links to the Jewish Nazis, let me know. Happy Holiday.
@bluehavencd so if you believe that the sinking of the titanic actually took place, by using the same standards of historical recording; documents, photos, eyewitnesses & the wreckage of the titanic itself in its watery grave in the atlantic, then please tell me how it is so hard for you to believe, using that same standard of historical recording; documents, photos & moving film, eyewitnesses, mass graves & the survival of killing institutions themselves; auschwitz etc; that the holocaust happ
@stanbrekston 2 very different things there. Plus 33 years later, with the implementation of negative propaganda, Psyops becoming involved as well, the protection of the lie becoming illegal to oppose it in Europe, how revisionists ending in jail and imprisoned, made me think on why is there such an extent to protect it. Geologists have been turned away to inspect the sites as well. I was in Psyops, so I know propaganda when I see it
@stanbrekston Plus also why the 6 million have to be in front of everything, when there were other people involved as well. One seems to forget about the Treaty of Versailles. No treaty, no Hitler. Germany was placed blame for WW1 and had to pay for everything, bankrupting it and lands taken form them, thus, the German reconquest on WW2.
Let me just say that your "facts" in this case are precisely as accurate as they were in the previous case involving the World Almanac. You don't do much for your arguments by spewing blatantly false information. The Red Cross made no such evaluation whatsoever.
"the ICRC has never tried to compile statistics on the victims of the war and has never certified the accuracy of the statistics produced by a third party."
@HistorySpeaks4Itself And as stated beforehand, you haven't provided with anything with the word Holocaust by either British or American leader. And mentioned before, I was unaware of the stats until I found a little something from McVay mentioning a convenient revision after WW2.
If you can't understand why the numbers would have to be revised after 6 years of genocide, and if to you the course of history could possibly be defined by the use or non-use of a single word, then I pity you. Go ahead and believe whatever you want, nobody will take you seriously either way.
Oh so the Gas Chambers exist do they? you mean those gas chambers in Poland today that have the gaps underneath the doors, thin glass pane windows and door and no Zyklon B stains on the wall? furthermore Zyklon B is not intended for humans, it was intended for knits and lice. If the gas chambers existed, what was the procedure to take the gas out of the room when there were no pumps on the room? where was the heating for the gas in winter? why do people still believe in such nonsense!?
Ever heard of people dying in their own homes from running a generator in the house, or from a gas leak? People committing suicide in their garage? If Zyklon B is not effective at killing human beings, why do you suppose no "truth seekers" like yourself have ever once demonstrated this theory to prove it? We both know the answer why.
How do YOU leave a room in the absence of a pump to force you out? It's called a door. It's actually very funny to listen to people like you who believe that there was a worldwide conspiracy detailed enough to fool every historic institution, educational facility, and government in the free world, yet not enough to fool you. You really should get over yourself, I'm afraid you're not a fraction as brilliant as you think you are.
@HistorySpeaks4Itself ... "gas...rooms" were only used for lice. No systematic procedure for killing. history NEVER speaks for itself. Only those who have the power by sources can/DO.
@nomorenigsplease it's kind of cynical isn't it, that the fuhrer, who considered jews parasitic vermin, to use a gas, zyclon B, on them, that was used for the extermination of lice & other vermin.
That was an excerpt from Ken McVay, like you, a protector of the holocaust. But you never answered my question, There were revisions made after the war in 1949 and the 50's...convenient. But answer my question I had for you. Show me documents that use Holocaust from FDR and Churchill reports. It's a legit question. You have an answer, but where's your proof? I get mine from IHR and Jewwatch, as well as Brother Nathaniel on youtube.
It shouldn't be hard to understand why the numbers were not being updated from 1939-1945...I don't think the nazis would have taken very kindly to people inquiring about Jewish population counts inside the concentration camps, verstehen? That's why the Almanacs clearly state that they used 1938 data during that era...but then it was you who exclaimed that the World Almanac was an accurate source of population statistics, wasn't it? What has changed since yesterday?
@HistorySpeaks4Itself What changed, I was unaware of post WW2 alterations until yesterday. I did a bit more digging and came up with that. And still, no mention of Holocaust. The word has to be used. Butcheries doesn't cut it. They too, butchered unarmed German civilians. And who drew first blood between Germany and the UK? You're good, and I will compliment you on that.
Nice choice of words,,,"alterations"...that's called intellectual dishonesty, plain for anyone with a brain to see. Same thing with your insistence for the word holocaust, as if anyone questions what Churchill is talking about.
@HistorySpeaks4Itself Same thing with "Final Solution" as extermination. So things are viewed per each individual differently. Jews have been persecuted throughout the ages, it's something in them that makes them being hated in history. I get the same dirty business ethics, crooked deals, and monopoly of services. Happened in the US, Germany, Spain, and other places.
"There is no doubt that this is probably the greatest and most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world, and it has been done by scientific machinery by nominally civilised men in the name of a great State and one of the leading races of Europe." (continued)
" It is quite clear that all concerned in this crime who may fall into our hands, including the people who only obeyed orders by carrying out the butcheries, should be put to death after their association with the murders has been proved. Declarations should be made in public, so that everyone connected with it will be hunted down and put to death."
@HistorySpeaks4Itself Winston Churchill was bought and paid for by the an American Jewish media outlet known as "The Focus", look it up.
The only genocides or mass killings I have ever discovered through my research has been Jewish influenced killings of innocents such as: Armenian Genocide, Ukrainian Genocide and the German Genocide of 1946-47 when more than 10 million German civilians were deliberately starved to death.
Look up Genrikh Yagoda, then tell me Jews are victims....
@HistorySpeaks4Itself Look at Palestine today and tell me Jews are victims. Their entire existence has been one of usurping and corruption and then portraying themselves as victims.
So in a nutshell, your belief is that because of "palestine today", the innocent victims of genocide 60 years ago were actually not victims at all. I guess in your eyes, those children and old women got what was coming to them, eh?
@HistorySpeaks4Itself World Almanacs...but can you provide me with anything calling the camps a Holocaust from English, or American reports, or the term coined as such by Churchill or Roosevelt?
@HistorySpeaks4Itself It's been accurate as far as populations are concerned, US stats, GNP's. And the numbers mentioned of 4-6 million, don't add up to anything. I'm more concerned about if there's a cover up. This debacle will never be properly clear, so it's no use to debate anyway. You don't believe anything you may throw at me and I won't believe anything you tell me. One thing I will say, at least you didn't cuss, I commend you for it. Happy Holidays.
Excellent...now that you have established that the World Almanac is a rock solid source of population statistics, perhaps you should actually read it. The 1939 World Almanac listed the Jewish population at 16.6 million, the 1947 at 11.2 million. On every World Almanac in between, it clearly states that the figures were derived from "Latest available data, 1938". I guess your own reliable source has answered any doubts or questions you may have had, correct?
To be more specific, the 1949 World Almanac (the one you claimed listed the world Jewish population at 15.9 million) uses 1947 data, and lists the number at 11,266,600 to be precise. Remember, we're using the accurate source that YOU provided, we're just using the actual numbers instead of made-up stuff. See for yourself, and then either change your mind or lose any chance you have of not calling yourself a blatant hypocrite.
@HistorySpeaks4Itself Only in 1949 are postwar estimates employed, the figures given are for estimates made in 1948. A year or two lag seems to be common for various other population estimates given by the World Almanac. The difference between the 1938 and 1948 figures is thus 4,481,491.
@HistorySpeaks4Itself In 1949, however, the World Almanac gives a revised 1939 population of 16,643,120 giving a difference of between 1938 and 1947 of 5,376,520. Where the extra population between 1938 and 1939 came from is not cited, though one might speculate that it was based upon the Nazi estimates made in 1942 for the Wannsee Conference. Despite the apparent exactness of the numbers listed, the World Almanac warns that all numbers listed are estimates.
Let's review. Your initial "point" was that according to the World Almanac (which you established as an accurate source of population statistics) the world Jewish population actually increased from 15.1 million to 15.9 million from 1932 to 1949, revealing a "cover up". You now openly acknowledge that not only to be blatantly false, but you even denounce your own source of reference, as it becomes clear that it does not support what you choose to believe.
The Holocaust is the most documented genocide in history. Eye-witness accounts. Photos. Videos. Books. Records. The horror, fear, torture that the victims endured until their gruesome deaths is unfathonable. At the mercy of sadistic Nazi/SS officers. Those who deny the Holocaust certainly are trying to convince themselves that it never happened for their own bigoted antisemitic reasons. I feel it is important for us to learn about it study it and teach our children about it.
@mightyoak11111 blablabla,i have yet to see an irrefutable proof,even a document.when people like you get in my front i am almost certain i can tell everything i want(except if it goes against majority opinion) that you will believe,you look like an audio tape from the media.
@mightyoak11111 "The Holocaust is the most documented genocide in history."
Just an illusion created by the medias...
Judge Gray, indictment of the Irving-Lipstadt trial (2000):
"I have to confess that, in common I suspect with most other people, I had supposed that the evidence of mass extermination of Jews in the gas chambers of Auschwitz was compelling. I have, however, set aside this preconception when assessing the evidence adduced by the parties in these proceedings."
@mightyoak11111 "The Holocaust is the most documented genocide in history"
"The archives torn from the bowels of the Third Reich permit us to reconstruct in their least detail the birth and the development of its plans for aggression and the whole range of processes by which the Nazis intended to reshape the world to their pattern. Only the campaign to exterminate the Jews remains steeped in fog. No document remains, and has perhaps never existed." (Leon Poliakov, Breviary of Hate, 1979)
@Simonwanders Why is holocaust denial against the law? Truth doesn't fear investigation! Any other historical event is forbidden to the historians as the holohoax is. Any other historical event need to be protected by the law. All the other historical events can be denied if enough proofs are brought to demonstrate it...apart from the holocaust. ;-)
@P1B1U1H1 "It is not against the law in the US or the UK. Where it is against the law, it is deemed to be incitement to riot."
Are you joking? Do you imagine the scene? Some people who have just learnt the the holocaust is a myth get angry and decide to burn and break everything because of that. Ridiculous. A totally fallacious 'reason'...
Where holocaust denial is not illegal, there is a complete black-out on that subject in the medias, what prevents debates on that subject too.
@Simonwanders You're wrong. There are no evidence of the holocaust. The Nuremberg circus-trials made you think that, but in fact this masquerade didn't aim to prove anything. The article 21 of the Charter of the International Military Tribunal stipulated: "The Tribunal shall not require proof of facts of common knowledge but shall take judicial notice thereof." No material evidence at that 'trial'. Just alleged 'testimonies' and misinterpretaded documents in a supposely coded language...
@kazan188 A finding in Irving v. Lipstadt was that the Holocaust did occur. The suit was brought by Mr. Irving, meaning he accepted the Court's ability to render such decisions in his case.
@P1B1U1H1 Judge Clay had to admit at the end of the Lipstadt-Irving trial (2000):
"I have to confess,that, in common I suspect with most other people, I had supposed that the evidence of mass extermination of Jews in the gas chambers of Auschwitz was compelling. I have, however, set aside this preconception when assessing the evidence adduced by the parties in these proceedings."
@kazan188 That says Mr. Justice Gray refused to considere information not presented in court when directing the trial proceedings & rendering judgment.
@kazan188 no the holocaust was real. the fact it does not require proof to justify [in a few places] is to prevent history from repeating itself (with the advances in weapon tech that would be bad).
@Simonwanders you ARE JUST NEONAZI WHO SIMPLY HATE JEWS" WRONG MORON.There are no gas chambers used to kill jews at all in WW2. What small gas chambers they had was to delouse clothes-small closed chambers with HEATING ELEMENTS for the pesticide to turn into gas.
"SO YOU CAN DENY, BUT ME AND MY TEAM WILL GO AFTER YOUR IP, THE MORE YOU WRITE DOWN THE MORE EVIDENCE WE HAVE" hey asshole-go fuck yourself douchebag-don't even try to threaten me punk-you can't bring me to court asshole-FUCK YOU
Regardless of the exact truth, we know millions of innocent Jews were killed in horrible ways by nazis. So I say this with no regrets fuck the Nazis and fuck Hitler! May you all burn in hell.
@Sorrysucker93 What about the millions killed by the USSR? Which was, by the way, mostly run by Jews. What about the refugee lines american pilots strafed?
@Sorrysucker93 "Regardless of the exact truth, we know millions of innocent Jews were killed in horrible ways by nazis."
We've been said that millions of jews had died during WW2, but its not true. Look for "General Jaruzelski’s Surprise". In an interview Jaruzelski, the last communist president of Poland, has recently admitted that the communist Polish authorities have falsified the population statistics at he end of the war to make the holocaust "credible"... ;-)
@Sorrysucker93 The World Almanac of 1947 and 1949 counted more jews AFTER WW2 than before. This little problem for the holocaust theory has naturally been "corrected" in later editions of the famous book... ;-)
@stanbrekston In the 1949 edition of the world almanac, this strange 'mistake' has effectively been 'corrected'. But in the 1933 and 1948 editions, the population of jews was 15,315.359 and 15,753,658. These late 'corrections' are suspect, don't you think? Hadn't the writers of the almanac access to the newspapers of 1946 talking about the 'Nuremberg trials'? But before 49, it's true they hadn't to legitimate the existence of the new state of Israël, so they had no interest in lying... :-)
@kazan188 i assume you know that for world almanac that a year or two lag is common for their population est. so their 1949 est. was revised with the correct number. it has always been that way; there is nothing ambiguas going on. now, in a criminal investigation, who would the detectives question; the eyewitnesses who were there & saw, or would they wait 2, 3 years later for the 'opinion' of people who were never even present? we're asked to dismiss testimomy from eywitness but believe the deni
This movie is not a documentary. Wake up! In his book 'Pietà', Swedish Jewish Professor Georg Klein told of a conversation he had with Rudolf Vrba in 1987. Klein asked him if his statements in the film 'Shoa' were really true. Vrba answered: “I do not know. I was just an actor and I recited my text.” The actors of this film received a script telling them what to say and they were paid 3,000 deutschmarks by Claude Lanzmann for their acting performance. ;-)
Lol, are you actually claiming that the people in the film are not who they say they are, or that they are indeed who they claim to be but have all taken acting lessons? I can't wait to hear the answer!!!
Sure they are who they say they are. No, they haven't taken acting lessons. It's easy to see in the whole movie that they are so bad actors. Do you know who is Rudolf Vrba, the man who admitted he recited his text? He's 'just' one of the three escaped jew whose 'eyewitness' founded the famous War Refugee Board report that officialized the holocaust story in the Roosevelt administration. Nothing more, nothing less...
Rudolf Vrba, a fundamental element of the origin of the holohoax is a funny guy. He was called for the trial of a revisionist (Ernst Zundel) in the 80's and he had to 'testify'. During the Zundel trial, the lawyer of Zundel pointed out so many incoherences in the 'testimonies' he had made during and after the war that this jewish practical joker invoked the right to "the poetic license" (the right to invent and to lie in others words)... :-0
Gosh, I wonder what the reason might be that you have such unshakable faith in the testimony of Rudolf Vrba, but not in that of tens of thousands of survivors, perpetrators, liberators, and witnesses from all over the world? Of course the reason is obvious.
Ever wonder why the chancellor of Germany, the German Pope, or scientists/chemists of German descent do not share your theories? I guess that is why people like you are confined to the pages of youtube and the like.
I had faith in the testimony of Rudolf Vrba and in the hundreds testimonies of 'witnesses' who swore on their life that they had seen gas chambers in Dachau, Belsen, Buchenwald and 13 other camps...but they all disappointed me because they were all liars (it has been proven). And you, why do you have so much faith in the 'testimonies' of the 'survivors' of 6 alleged "death camps' knowing that the 'survivors' of 16 camps were proved to be liars? ;-)
Did you miss something? How easily you dismiss from your mind that it is certainly not only survivors that witnessed the gas chambers. There are thousands of British, American, and Russian soldiers, Polish and German civilians, and German and Ukrainian soldiers who disagree with you - of course you know more about the subject than the people that were there, right? I myself know or am related to people that were involved on all ends of the equation, and millions know at least one.
@HistorySpeaks4Itself The fact you say that thousands of British and American soldiers saw gas chambers proves that you are much more arrogant than well-informed. Actual 'official' History counts 6 nazi 'extermination camps' that are said to have had homicidal gas chambers (or gas vans) - Auschwitz-Birkenau, Majdanek, Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor and Chelmno - ALL located in Poland and liberated by Soviets. So if a British or American soldier claimed that he saw a gas chamber, he's a liar. ;-)
@kazan188 Actually, you're the only one here that comes off as arrogant. Dachau, in Germany, while not officially an extermination camp, did have gas chambers AND it was liberated by Americans. Look it up asshole.
A gas chamber in Dachau?! A new typical holocaust believer as ignorant as the other ones. Dachau had a delousing gas chamber (for clothes) like all other nazi camps. Holocaust propaganda tried to create a homicidal gas chamber in Dachau but reading the sign in this alleged gas chamber (removed in 2003) shows how ridiculous it is: " Gas chamber disguised as a shower room - never used as a gas chamber." Or in other words a simple shower room turned to a gas chamber in propaganda.
@kazan188 HOLO-HOAX LIES. That's all these bastards propose.This guy being interviewed is going to spew the same horseshit lies that he did while in captivity being tortured by the allies. There were no fucking gas chambers as you said.
People falling out like potatoes..HAHAHAHA
Another asshole said the women died STANDING UP....lol
Feeble minds can't understand that it was bulllshit to SAVE THEIR LIVES......hahahahhahaha
Many minds can't go beyond the terrible pictures of the liberation of nazi camps and analize them with a critical spirit. Emotions totally blind these people. They know they were lied about Saddam's mass destruction weapons and many other things, but can't imagine one second their government and medias could have done the same about their sacred 'holocaust'...
@kazan188 It's not just lying about the Holo-Hoax,But they benefit big time to continue this bulldshit hoax.Germany still pays reparations.Israel gets money up the ass from the US $3,000,000,000 Over the table & $12,000,000,000 UNDER the table. Fucking paracites. And they use that Trick anytime they want to.Along with yelling anti-semitic bullshit.
And they got the country they were crying for during many centuries. The terrible scenes seen in nazi camps at the end of the war has been a real chance for zionists. Other advantage of the holohoax: jews became untouchable in the western countries and so became more powerful than ever in these countries...
@kazan188 And they got a famous Hollywood jew director to film all of their propaganda films right after the allies took over the Camps.With fake human skin lampshades-that disappeared when it became know of the fake and Shrunken heads from S.America that were used for propaganda & fake tattooed skin -some being paper. lol
The Psychological Warfare Division of the Allied Forces has perfectly done his job (PsyOp). It began with Albert G. Rosenberg, a jewish American lieutenant, born and raised in Germany, who has 'documented' Buchenwald for the PWD. He was helped by the famous jewish propagandist/filmmaker Billy Wilder to demonize the nazis by filming the bad health condition of the prisoners of the destroyed Reich unable to avoid this catastrophy.
@kazan188 That's the guy Billy Wilder-i forgot his name.Oh so true.He made all those "Newsreels" for the propaganda in the movie theatres-previews of what was NOT happening in the war. Kinda like today where they never show you all the BODYBAGS of our soldiers killed in Iraq,etc.Coming home with no arms or legs & complete vegetables.
because scumbags like bush&cheneyNEEDED A WAR to conquer more 3rd world nations
Google USA MILITARY INCURSIONS in the last 100 years.USA=#1 TERRORIST NATION TODAY
@stanbrekston No just since my eyes were opened up to all the bullshit lies assholes like you spread. Holohoax my ass. Just since the israeli zionist jew fucks have been allowed to kill at will ANYONE they say is plotting against them.
Just when people are killled in INTERNATIONAL WATERS when the zionist jew fucks have no business raiding ships & killing indiscriminately after a ship has been searched 3 times by different governments for arms.
@hellodude82 Dachau, in Germany, while not officially an extermination camp, did have gas chambers -SMALL GAS CHAMBERS TO DELOUSE CLOTHES & MATTRESSES NOT TO KILL PEOPLE. They were too small for that purpose anyway.And the supposed gas chambers were not gas chambers.All the holes in the roofs to supposedly drop Zyklon B were built AFTER THE WAR. Holo-hoax is a fucking lie.
@hellodude82 "Dachau, in Germany, while not officially an extermination camp, did have gas chambers AND it was liberated by Americans"
A delousing gas chamber (for clothes) and a simple shower transformed into a gas chamber by the Allied propaganda. Look at the plaque which was in this shower "Gas chamber disguised as a shower room - NEVEr used as a gas chamber". In other words a simple shower. Do you think the former Allies will admit they lied for propaganda reasons (denazification)? ;-)
@HistorySpeaks4Itself "There are thousands of British, American, and Russian soldiers, Polish and German civilians, and German and Ukrainian soldiers who disagree with you"
British and American soldiers were cheated by their own propaganda services and German soldiers were tortured (read "American atrocities in Germany" by Judge Van Roden) or lied to save their own life: the goal of the Nuremberg 'trials' wasn't to prove or disprove the holocaust; their only chance was to charge their superiors
@kazan188 i agree with HistorySpeaks4itself. if you doubt anything else; whether it be the documents from the nazis themselves; the photos & film footage; you can't doubt the testimonies from the thousands & thousands of eyewitnesses; german,american,russian,italian.british & polish soldiers; russian,german,polish,ukrainian civilians etc. & they've all been consistant in one thing; whether it was mass shootings of jews, or horrific activity in extermination camps a holocaust happened against the
@kazan188 them. & thru time, even today, with their frail bodies still clinging to life some of these people are still giving testimony. they are not being tortured to reveal the things they did or saw. on youtube look at, 'the wehrmact series', & listen to those old german soldiers, who again, were not being tortured, tell what they & their kamrads did in the army. these arn't some old jews talking who you wouldn't believe anyway. listen to old lithuanian auxileries tell how they massecred jews
@stanbrekston i've watched "the wehrmacht series: the crimes". But I have a problem with British war documents because there were also British documents about the alleged gas chambers in the camps they had liberated, like Bergen Belsen, that are now known to have been simple shower rooms. Those generals starting to 'confess' all their 'crimes' for the mics of the secret services, it's too good to be true. Do you think they wouldn't have anything else to speak about? Women, wives , familes, etc?
@stanbrekston Those alleged 'witnesses' spoke about the Commissar Order. If they had, they should know this document wasn't about the extermination of the jews but about the peculiar measures to take for the East Front war. It says that "political commissars are, as a matter of principle, to be finished immediately with a weapon." A war crime? What happened to the German soldiers in the hands of the Soviets? Most were shot. War is a war, and that one was specially hard on both sides.
@stanbrekston How many people were shot in Vietnam by the GI's to fight communism? Why would the Germans not be allowed to use hard methods to fight communism? To shoot the partisans of an enemy regime and ideology (communism in this case) is very different from the extermination of a people. Most of these communist commissars were jews, it's true, but they were not killed because they were jewish but because they were the actors of an antagonist way of life and regime.
All those Generals alledgly speaking about their 'crimes' in front of the British microphones and none of them seems to have heard anything about Auschwitz or any gas chambers. They don't mention any murder by gas in camps or massive transports of jews to certain places like Auschwitz. Strange, no?
@kazan188 none of those generals to my knowlege were ever in any of those camps so i would not expect them to be speaking on this. but the ones who were in russia speaks about the mass shootings don't they? if you want to hear someone mention 'murder by gas in camps or massive transports of jews', then why don't you read the 1971 interviews of an 'untortured' franz stangl, the kommandant of treblinka, (you can't get any better), in the book by gitta sereny, 'INTO THAT DARKNESS', AMAZON.COM
@stanbrekston "none of those generals to my knowlege were ever in any of those camps so i would not expect them to be speaking on this."
No need to see those camps. So huge numbers of jews as those announced transported to these camps would have made them question themselves and their collaborators. They would have talked about it together. And all those alleged remorse sounds fake, I find. It doesn't fit with the image of experienced old hardened German soldiers like those generals...
@kazan188 as for the hidden microphones; you guys are so frustrating. what if the transcripts had said that all those generals denied that there were any such thing as a genocide of jews? you'd be all over it screaming, SEE!, SEE! & you say 'those alleged witnesses spoke about the commisar order'. @ the time of the incidents most of those people didn't even know about the commisar order. & did not the fuhrer consider jews & bolshevists one in the same? hmm? you kill commisars you kill jews.
@stanbrekston The Commissar order is evoked in the documentary you advised to me (the wehrmacht series). I said those transcripts of microphones recordings seemed doubtful to me. And if those transcript had said any such thing as a genocide of jews, I would try to learn more about them in order to see if they are reliable. Professor Hinsley, famous historian, wrote, there is nowhere in the myriads of intercepted (by British codebreakers) nazi messages any reference to gas chambers or gassings.
@kazan188 that 'commissar order' you keep throwing up to me, according to wiki was issued 6 june '41 but from what i remember it was first given in a meeting by hitler to his generals in march '41. it was basically to exterminate all captured partisans & commisars upon capture. as we know, to hitler communists & jews are one in the same. the einsatzgruppen was given a mandate to exterminate 'jewish bolshevism'. that's undeniable. the quote you attributed to gitta sereny; where is it from?
@stanbrekston To eradicate jewish bolchevism doesn't mean to exterminate the jews. Everybody knows bolchevism was started by jews (Marx, Lenin, Trotsky...), lead by jews (bosses of the Russian communist party) and implemented by jews (commissars, NKVD, etc.). Communism is all jew. When Hitler says "jewish bolchevism", it just means "communism" and he doesn't mean that all jews are bolchevists. Hasn't America also tried "to eradicate communism"?
@kazan188 'to eradicate jewish bolshevism doesn't mean to exterminate the jews'. hmm. well what exactly does it mean? when between 1.5 million & 2 million jews were exterminated & an untold number of communists as well. was the fuhrer just kidding? he didn't realy mean it? then that would mean that thousands of troops on their own initiative just decided to go on a killing orgy throughout the ussr.? & you do constantly 'throw up' the commisar order when there were other discussions of genocide.
@stanbrekston " 'to eradicate jewish bolshevism doesn't mean to exterminate the jews'. hmm. well what exactly does it mean?"
It means to shoot the communist commissars who were present in the combat zones, as the Russians did to most of the captured nazis. The number of 1.5 to 2 million jews killed by bullets is even less argumented than the number of people supposely killed in Auschwitz (4 million between 1946 and 1990; 1 million today; non-deniers' numbers only). :-)
You're funny with your unargumented millions of jews supposely killed in ussr. Inform yourself about the soviet evacuation of the jews before the nazis arrived. According to you, who colonized the new state of Israel and recolonized many other countries (Europe, USA, Canada, Australia, etc.) by millions just after WW2? Ghosts?
@stanbrekston "give us YOUR version of what took place at treblinka"
Treblinka was a transit camp, like Sobibor and Belzec. Those camps are all located on the former border between Prussia and Russia. The rail gauge of Prussia (standard gauge) and Russia (russian gauge) is different. So the deported jews had to change of train at that 'border'. Transit camps were perfectly logical there, but not extermination camps (too far from cities; nearer isolated places would have been easier).
@stanbrekston In fact the holocausters claim that these camps weren't transit camps but 'pure extermination camps'. But the nazi terminology contradicts them. For instance the Nuremberg document NO-482 is a Himmler's staff document (translation) of July 1943 about the "Transient (transit) camp of Sobibor". You can also watch the movie "one third of the holocaust" on youtube if you want more information about the Treblinka hoax... ;-)
@kazan188 that's all very nice what you just said but what i'd like to know is whether the above ss man in YOUR opinion, correct or incorrect in his interview? if you say he's correct then obviously you yourself believe that treblinka is a 'pure extermination camp'. if in your opinion, as a denier, he is incorrect, then please, point by point, enlighten us as to what he is in error of. give us YOUR version of what it was like in treblinka. & who knows; if you're persuasive enough i might believ
@stanbrekston Suchomel says that people were killed by gas exhaust in Treblinka. The problem is that the other 'witnesses' claim that Diesel engines were used for that. Diesel engines produce an impressive black smoke but diesel fumes can't kill (healthy people in great number). The only known case of death caused by diesel fumes is the case of a 83-year-old man with heart diseases (S. Sivaloganathan, "Death From Diesel Fumes."Journal of Clinical Forensic Medicine 5 (1998), pp. 138-139).
@kazan188 my friend you write that, "suchomel says that people were killed by gas exhaust in treblinka. the problem is that the other 'witnesses' claim that diesel engines were used for that'. well if you look @ 4:45 of the above video suchomel says that, 'a tank engine was used in that gas chamber'. & if you look up treblina in wiki it tells you that a soviet tank used diesel. suchomel & the other 'witnesses' agree. now again, please tell us, in your opinion is suchomel correct or incorrect?
@stanbrekston "please tell us, in your opinion is suchomel correct or incorrect?"
In my opinion, Suchomel is lying. 1,800 dollars (3,000 deutschmarks) were a very big sum of money in the 70's (when this film was shot). You could find individuals ready to lie for money everywhere, in every army of the world. And about the others 'witnesses' I think that lies were regular for money, fame, revenge (against those who had imprisoned them and forced them to work) and to avoid jail for life...
@stanbrekston " if you look up treblina in wiki it tells you that a soviet tank used diesel."
In fact Diesel fumes are one of the less efficient method to kill people. Diesel fumes produce very low CO levels (MAX 0.5%). Gasoline fumes would be much more efficient (5% CO) and wood gas fumes (very common during WW2 because of oil lacks) would have been the best way to gas many people (35% CO!). But no 'witness' has ever spoke about those very typical and recognizable wood gas engines...
@kazan188 my friend, as i warned you before you decided to take on my challenge, your credibility is on the line. now you have a very clear choice in front of you. there is no wiggle room. you came to this site telling everyone that among other things that there were no gas chambers. you did it on a site where an ss gaurd who was there clearly contradicts you. not too smart. time for the tap dancing to end. once & for all tell us. in your opinion is suchomel correct or is he lying to us?
@stanbrekston "an ss gaurd who was there clearly contradicts you"
And doesn't the fact that this former SS guard describes a killing method which is scientifically impossible answer your question about his lies? Do you really think that the country with the best engineers, physicists and chemists of that time would have used such a ridiculous and unefficient method as gassing with a diesel engine? Do you think that these nazi scientists wouldn't have thought about using wood gas engines?
Your testimony about the diesel issue is confusing, my friend: one second, it is "a killing method which is scientifically impossible", and the next it is "one of the less efficient method[s] to kill people".
You're the one who is complaining about inconsistency in the narrative, but it appears you are quite good at it yourself.
@MSM4U2POM "one second, it is "a killing method which is scientifically impossible", and the next it is "one of the less efficient method[s] to kill people"."
I was trying to say that diesel gassings wouldn't have been a convenient mass killing method. You can read "Death From Diesel Fumes" (S. Sivaloganathan, Journal of Clinical Forensic Medicine 5 (1998), pp. 138-139) about the only documented example of a death from diesel exhaust, the suicide of a 83 yo man with heart disease... ;-)
The plot thickens: first you say it is 'scientifically impossible', then you post an instance of where it has been scientifically proven to have happened!!!
Am I to take it, therefore, that when holocaust survivors say something which doesn't add up, they are lying through their teeth; but when YOU do, it is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
@MSM4U2POM "The plot thickens: first you say it is 'scientifically impossible', then you post an instance of where it has been scientifically proven to have happened!!!"
Oh shit. I'm caught. I have just proved that 83 YO people with heart disease could have been exterminated, one by one, with diesel fumes.;. :-)
@MSM4U2POM "Your testimony about the diesel issue is confusing, my friend."
There's a capîtal principle in toxicology that says "The dose makes the poison" ("All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous.", Paracelsus). You can kill somebody by making him drink pure water if you have enough of if (& enough time), but it doesn't make drinking pure water a convenient killing method because of that... Am I clearer??
@MSM4U2POM "Your testimony about the diesel issue is confusing"
If you are interested in that matter, you can also read "The Toxicity of Fumes from Diesel Engine under Four Different Running Conditions" (by R. E. Pattle, H. Stretch, F. Burgess, K. Sinclair, and J. A. G. Edginton, The British Journal of Industrial Medicine, 1957, 14, pp. 47-55) and you will see that those scientists took more than 4 hours to kill a few rodents with diesel undiluted fumes at maximum running condition. ;-)
@stanbrekston Do you really think that if I pay enough money I won't find any GI ready to lie and to say in front of a camera that America gassed Viet Congs in gas chambers? What about the gas chambers that Saddam Hussein was supposed to have in an article of "The Jewish Press" of the 15th February of 1991 ("Iraqis have gas chambers for all jews")? Not found yet or just another war propaganda lie? What about the "steam chambers" supposely used in Treblinka (Nuremberg document 3311-PS)? War lie.
@kazan188 no, not all gas chambers used diesel at auschwitz they used prussic acid but of course you wont believe that either. my friend i've been patient with you but you refused to give me your simple yes or no opinion on suchomel. instead i get parranoia about tortured prisoners confessions, paid off GI's to lie about viet cong gassing sadam hussein Jewish press, 'steam chambers' etc. it's a tactic of deniers; when you can't answer a question you try to distract with unimportant facts; trivia
@kazan188 now that we finally established that you say suchomel is a liar, please, point by point, tell us what he is wrong on. from parts1 to 7 point out where he's lying. & then tell us your 'recollections' of what went on at treblinka.
It's interesting to note that the Jews are only mentioned in eighth and last place in the execution order of October 29, 1941 given to the Einsatzgruppen and that only a category of Jews is concerned. I quote: "8) Soviet Russian and Jewish intellectuals, INSOFAR AS they are professional revolutionaries or political activists, authors, editors, Komintern officials etc." (document labelled USSR-014 at the Nuremberg trials).
@kazan188 ok my friend let's put our cards on the table. i'm going to ask you an easy yes or no question. ah, but there's a catch & your credibility will be on the line. can you handle it? question, is the above former ss gaurd at treblinka correct in his testimony or is he incorrect? if your answer is yes, he's correct about the gas chambers & so forth then your arguments go down the toilet. If your answer is no, he is incorrect, now it will be YOUR word against HIS. & if that's the case
@stanbrekston Not quite. Just like the trial of Adolf Eichmann these guys know this is a lie. But they do not want to be used as a stooge in the overall lie. Story within a story.
@stanbrekston I don't throw you this 'commissar order', like you say. You asked me to watch a documentary. I spent 1 hour doing it and when I speak about what is said in this documentary, you tell me "I keep throwing this commissar order up to you".
And about this commissar order? German soldiers were killed by partisans, war material was sabotaged, etc. Are we supposed to cry because Hitler played this war with the communist Russian rules?
@kazan188 picture in your mind a scale; on one side you have literally tons of contemporary documents recording the holocaust by the perpitrators, tons of photographs & miles of film recording the holocaust, testimony from thousands upon thousands of eyewitnesses who saw the holocaust, who experienced the holocaust, who perpitrated the holocaust. & on the other end of the scale you have the denier; who was never there, telling us 70 years later to believe them & not the evidence. what's heavier?
@stanbrekston Tons of proofs of the holocaust? That's the illusion propagated by the medias. One example: at the end of the Lipstadt- Irving (denier) trial, Judge Clay declared:
""I have to confess,that, in common I suspect with most other people, I had supposed that the evidence of mass extermination of Jews in the gas chambers of Auschwitz was compelling. I have, however, set aside this preconception when assessing the evidence adduced by the parties in these proceedings."
@kazan188 after all the evidence to the contrary you're going to throw up to me the comments of one judge, who like you & the other deniers, was never even there? that's kind of feeble my friend. if i had commited a murder, i sure would want you on my jury. because if i was caught with a weapon in my hand & the victim at my feet & 50 witnesses that said they saw me do it, & my image on video showing that i did it, you'd still say, the witnesses were tortured, the victim did'nt die. it's a hoax.
@stanbrekston I didn't throw you the comments of one judge, I gave you an example to show how much the gassing of the jews was unproven. The two parties implicated in this trial showed their best arguments and at the end the 'proofs' given by the Lipstadt (famous jewish historian) team didn't convince the judge that the gassing of jews was well-proven.
"The victims didn't die"
According to the Zionist Organization of America, only 2.5 million jews were still in all Europe when WW2 started.
@kazan188 well according to the wansee conference there were 5 million jews in ussr. alone. you gave me an example to show how much the gassing of the jews was unproven? didn't you even take a peek at the above interview with the ss officer? the guy was there by the way & i don't think you were. how are you going to prove to me that gassing never took place when even the kommandant of treblinka admitted to it? are you just going to say more 'jewish lies'? to my knowlege franz stangl not a jew.
@stanbrekston Wannsee conference: 4,536,500 jews in German-occupied Europe. About the Russian jews, most of them had been evacuated to the east of Russia by the soviets before the nazis arrived in Russia.
About Suchomel, the guard heard in this video, don't you know that Lanzmann admitted that he had paid the German 'witnesses' of his film (3,000 deutschmarks) and that Rudolf Vrba, another 'witness' of this film, admitted that he had got a script telling him what to say (Pièta, G. Klein).
@stanbrekston Witnesses? And what about the 'witnesses' - alleged victims, perpetrators and liberators - who 'testified' after WW2 and told us that there were homicidal gas chambers in Dachau, Bergen Belsen, Buchenwald and tens of others camps in Germany, what we knew to be false decades later? If we've been lied about tens of camps, why would we be told the truth for the 6 'remaining' camps?
Revisionists 70 years later? Rassinier, jailed in nazi camps, started denouncing the lie in the 40's.
Sorry to break it to you, but you are clearly in the category of pretty much all deniers, where your story simply changes direction whenever you hit a road block. You've already decided what you want to believe, don't let the facts get in your way. Your initial argument was that diesel fumes could not kill at all, and you c&p efforts proved you don't even read your own support material. Under those circumstances, what's the point? Thanks for wasting my time.
You distort my previous comments. Typical holocaust believers method. You put the reality out of shape until it says there was a holocaust. I said that diesel fumes wouldn't have been able to kill so many people in REALISTIC periods of time and that it would have been a too unefficient weapon of mass killing. If you don't care how long it takes, everything can kill, even drinking water in enormous amounts.
@kazan188 And you, why do you have so much faith in the 'testimonies' of the 'survivors' of 6 alleged "death camps' knowing that the 'survivors' of 16 camps were proved to be liars?
Where can i find the source of that proof? The survivors of 16 camps were PROVEN liars? I'd luv to have that in my argument pouch. lol Can you send it to me please? Thanks.
h-tt-p://revforum.yourforum.or-g/viewtopic.ph-p?f=2&t=6058 (without the dashes)
The movie "holocaust deniers please watch" (youtube) made by Simon Wiesenthal in the 60's or 70's still names 17 former 'death camps'. Look for "extermination camps" in wikipedia for instance and you'll find only 6 alleged former nazi 'death camps' still considered so today... ;-)
About the alleged 'perpetrators', read "American Atrocities in Germany" by American Judge Van Roden (Dachau trial) if you want to have an idea of the methods used by Allies to get these 'testimonies'. You can also read "Legion of Death" (by Rupert Butler) in which one of the former torturers of Rudolf Hoess (the last commandant of Auschwitz) proudly admits that his British team of torturers had to beat Hoess during 3 days to get "a proper testimony". :-o
Concerning the acting talent of the 'witnesses' of this movie, I have one remark. Suchomel is often looking at the camera during his show. Obviously not an actors studio's former student. If it had been the case, it's one of the 1st things he would have been taught. But you will probably tell me that he 's a well-known bag lover (the camera is said to be hidden in a bag) and that that's why he always watch in that direction...
This liar said he has participated to gassings of human beings and admitted it in a film. Has he been judged after this interview and sent to jail for life? Answering this question is answering the question "is he saying the truth in this interview?"...
He'd already been convicted, jailed, and released at the time this interview was conducted. By your own definition, I guess that pretty much answers your last question now doesn't it? Might want to study up a little better next time, lest you make a fool out of yourself.
Not jailed for life for his active participation to gassings of so many people? Only 7 years of imprisonment as a sentence, and just 4 years really served. Not strange to you?
But 4 years in jail is a big punishment for gassing people in a gas chamber which wouldn't be able to kill anyone. Diesel gas chambers are a ridiculous hoax.
Apparently you are not aware that those responsible for the creation of the death camps who issued orders to subordinates like suchomel were executed. pol pot in Cambodia was never even tried for a crime, by your logic does that make him innocent as well?
As for diesel gas "not being able to kill anyone", do you think if you strapped on a respirator fed with only diesel exhaust that you would be feelin' fine after a minute or two? If so, have a cookie little fella.
The responsible of the death camps were executed. You said it. Why have British killed Himmler, 'the architect of the camps', BEFORE the Nuremberg circus-trials? What an inconvenient 'testifier' he would have been for the successfull birth of the holocaust story! It was much easier to tell the holocaust lies to the chief of the air army (I mean Göring), isn't it?
I'll not probably feel fine if I breath diesel but I won't die. It's certain.
About diesel fumes I recommand to read this article: The Toxicity of Fumes from Diesel Engine
under Four Different Running Conditions By R. E. Pattle, H. Stretch, F. Burgess, K. Sinclair, and J. A. G. Edginton, The British Journal of Industrial Medicine, 1957, 14, pp. 47-55. During this experiment, mice, rabbits and guinea pigs were submitted to undiluted diesel fumes in a gas chamber. After 5 hours, 0 animal had died. Maybe jews are more fragile than guinea pigs?
Thanks for the article. Perhaps to prove your theory that "diesel fumes cannot kill", you would have been better off referencing an experiment in which the mortality rate was not 100% during exposure under that pesky "Condition D" Did you even read the article yourself?. Shall I spell it out slowly for you? Mice 40/40, Guinea Pigs 10/10, Rabbits 4/4 - all dead while under exposure to diesel fumes with a restricted inlet connection. Thanks again, I'll remember that.
If you like articles, maybe you will like this one: S. Sivaloganathan, "Death From Diesel Fumes.", Journal of Clinical Forensic Medicine (1998) 5, pp. 138-139. It is about the ONLY reported case of death caused by diesel fumes (holocaust 'survivors'' stories excepted). It was a 83 year old man with heart diseases who committed suicide with a diesel engine... How much of this can you take, idiot? :-)
Since your so keen on referencing experiments (lol), why do you suppose that none of your like-minded ilk have ever once recreated the circumstances in question to prove your collective theory? It wouldn't be hard to do at all. You seem to be fine with referencing obscure studies (that work against you, lol) - why haven't any of you ever put your money where your mouth is yourselves?
Mistake: When the interviewee says "Germans" the subtitle always says "SS Men."
ZnOZincOxide 6 days ago
i just wish they had asked him if demjanjuk was ivan the terible.
stanbrekston 3 weeks ago
Lol these comments are like essays. So much work on comments that people think matter lol.
thethethetheluis 2 months ago
I don't deny there were internment camps, but the numbers don't add up. The numbers have significantly gone down from 6 million, to 4 million, to 1.5 million, to 600,000 in some instances. The American Red Cross had 125K+ victims....of mainly Typhus. And the reds counted 85K.
Heard of Eisenhower's Holocaust? If you stand for victims, German soldiers too, were treated in worse conditions and starved. Or do you only choose from a certain people?
bluehavencd 2 months ago
@bluehavencd you know sir, sometimes i have to wonder, what goes thru a holocaust deniers head. there must be something within him that keeps him stubbornly from accepting that there was a horrific crime without parallel in human history performed on the jewish people. there must be a hardness of heart that for the denier, despite all the literal tons & tons of evidence of one of the most documented events in recorded history he just wont believe it NO MATTER WHAT. could it just be you hate jews
stanbrekston 2 months ago
@stanbrekston I am of Sephardic lineage, so I can't hate Jews. I just tire of the lies and BS associated with the "holocaust" I don't see Sephardics in world affairs as much as I see Ashkenazics, and always with some sort of politics behind it.
bluehavencd 2 months ago
@bluehavencd that's bullshit! there's a such thing as, 'self hate'. hitler may have had it. heydrich too. but i have a question: is there anything, ANYTHING one can do to convince you that the holocaust against the jews, as it is defined, actually took place? & if there is something that would convince you, what is it? if there is NOTHING that would convince you, then as a die-hard denier who's mind is already made up, we're just wasting our time debating it aren't we?
stanbrekston 2 months ago
@stanbrekston My question is, How many American lives, how many lives of other people were lost? Why is this all about Ashkenazics and no additional emphasis on other people's lives or even how many Sephardic Jews were lost in Spain under Franco? And remember Franco was Hitler's pal. The camps took place, yes. No denying. But history always further vilifies an opossing force for the "lesser" evil/greater good. Take note on the American Indian called savages, also in my lineage.
bluehavencd 2 months ago
@bluehavencd although you avoided my question i will attempt to answer yours. if i'm not too far off americans lost over 200,000 lives in ww2. as for Ashkenazics & Sephardic jews, the nazis didn't make a distinction so why should you? to them a jew was a jew. now i'll attempt to ask you another question. the 100th anniversary of the sinking of the titanic is due in april. do you think this event is a hoax like the holocaust? if yes, then please explain. if not, why not?
stanbrekston 2 months ago
@stanbrekston 200K is correct 291K TBE. The Nazis had a category of "michlings" plus as many as 150K Jews served under Germany during WW2. There's a difference between both and one like me knows it. It's just the ones om power that are the problem, the hard working class I don't. Yes theTitanic happened an many things happened from human error to saving money and shoddy materials. If you need the links to the Jewish Nazis, let me know. Happy Holiday.
bluehavencd 2 months ago
@bluehavencd so if you believe that the sinking of the titanic actually took place, by using the same standards of historical recording; documents, photos, eyewitnesses & the wreckage of the titanic itself in its watery grave in the atlantic, then please tell me how it is so hard for you to believe, using that same standard of historical recording; documents, photos & moving film, eyewitnesses, mass graves & the survival of killing institutions themselves; auschwitz etc; that the holocaust happ
stanbrekston 2 months ago
@stanbrekston 2 very different things there. Plus 33 years later, with the implementation of negative propaganda, Psyops becoming involved as well, the protection of the lie becoming illegal to oppose it in Europe, how revisionists ending in jail and imprisoned, made me think on why is there such an extent to protect it. Geologists have been turned away to inspect the sites as well. I was in Psyops, so I know propaganda when I see it
bluehavencd 2 months ago
@bluehavencd
"I was in Psyops, so I know propaganda when I see it".
ROFL!
I was in the Boy Scouts, and I know bullshit when I smell it.
MSM4U2POM 2 weeks ago
@stanbrekston Plus also why the 6 million have to be in front of everything, when there were other people involved as well. One seems to forget about the Treaty of Versailles. No treaty, no Hitler. Germany was placed blame for WW1 and had to pay for everything, bankrupting it and lands taken form them, thus, the German reconquest on WW2.
bluehavencd 2 months ago
@bluehavencd
Let me just say that your "facts" in this case are precisely as accurate as they were in the previous case involving the World Almanac. You don't do much for your arguments by spewing blatantly false information. The Red Cross made no such evaluation whatsoever.
"the ICRC has never tried to compile statistics on the victims of the war and has never certified the accuracy of the statistics produced by a third party."
- R. Gaillard-Moret, International Red Cross 1979
HistorySpeaks4Itself 2 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself And as stated beforehand, you haven't provided with anything with the word Holocaust by either British or American leader. And mentioned before, I was unaware of the stats until I found a little something from McVay mentioning a convenient revision after WW2.
bluehavencd 2 months ago
@bluehavencd
If you can't understand why the numbers would have to be revised after 6 years of genocide, and if to you the course of history could possibly be defined by the use or non-use of a single word, then I pity you. Go ahead and believe whatever you want, nobody will take you seriously either way.
HistorySpeaks4Itself 2 months ago
Oh so the Gas Chambers exist do they? you mean those gas chambers in Poland today that have the gaps underneath the doors, thin glass pane windows and door and no Zyklon B stains on the wall? furthermore Zyklon B is not intended for humans, it was intended for knits and lice. If the gas chambers existed, what was the procedure to take the gas out of the room when there were no pumps on the room? where was the heating for the gas in winter? why do people still believe in such nonsense!?
nomorenigsplease 2 months ago
@nomorenigsplease
Ever heard of people dying in their own homes from running a generator in the house, or from a gas leak? People committing suicide in their garage? If Zyklon B is not effective at killing human beings, why do you suppose no "truth seekers" like yourself have ever once demonstrated this theory to prove it? We both know the answer why.
HistorySpeaks4Itself 2 months ago
@nomorenigsplease
How do YOU leave a room in the absence of a pump to force you out? It's called a door. It's actually very funny to listen to people like you who believe that there was a worldwide conspiracy detailed enough to fool every historic institution, educational facility, and government in the free world, yet not enough to fool you. You really should get over yourself, I'm afraid you're not a fraction as brilliant as you think you are.
HistorySpeaks4Itself 2 months ago 5
@HistorySpeaks4Itself Well said
Brigadierbadger 1 month ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself ... "gas...rooms" were only used for lice. No systematic procedure for killing. history NEVER speaks for itself. Only those who have the power by sources can/DO.
SeeleSchrie7 1 week ago
@nomorenigsplease it's kind of cynical isn't it, that the fuhrer, who considered jews parasitic vermin, to use a gas, zyclon B, on them, that was used for the extermination of lice & other vermin.
stanbrekston 2 months ago
That was an excerpt from Ken McVay, like you, a protector of the holocaust. But you never answered my question, There were revisions made after the war in 1949 and the 50's...convenient. But answer my question I had for you. Show me documents that use Holocaust from FDR and Churchill reports. It's a legit question. You have an answer, but where's your proof? I get mine from IHR and Jewwatch, as well as Brother Nathaniel on youtube.
bluehavencd 2 months ago
@bluehavencd
It shouldn't be hard to understand why the numbers were not being updated from 1939-1945...I don't think the nazis would have taken very kindly to people inquiring about Jewish population counts inside the concentration camps, verstehen? That's why the Almanacs clearly state that they used 1938 data during that era...but then it was you who exclaimed that the World Almanac was an accurate source of population statistics, wasn't it? What has changed since yesterday?
HistorySpeaks4Itself 2 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself What changed, I was unaware of post WW2 alterations until yesterday. I did a bit more digging and came up with that. And still, no mention of Holocaust. The word has to be used. Butcheries doesn't cut it. They too, butchered unarmed German civilians. And who drew first blood between Germany and the UK? You're good, and I will compliment you on that.
bluehavencd 2 months ago
@bluehavencd
Nice choice of words,,,"alterations"...that's called intellectual dishonesty, plain for anyone with a brain to see. Same thing with your insistence for the word holocaust, as if anyone questions what Churchill is talking about.
HistorySpeaks4Itself 2 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself Same thing with "Final Solution" as extermination. So things are viewed per each individual differently. Jews have been persecuted throughout the ages, it's something in them that makes them being hated in history. I get the same dirty business ethics, crooked deals, and monopoly of services. Happened in the US, Germany, Spain, and other places.
bluehavencd 2 months ago
@bluehavencd
Eventually every denier's true motives and prejudice come right out in the open. It's like cracking a nut, it's always the same on the inside.
HistorySpeaks4Itself 2 months ago
@bluehavencd
Winston Churchill:
"There is no doubt that this is probably the greatest and most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world, and it has been done by scientific machinery by nominally civilised men in the name of a great State and one of the leading races of Europe." (continued)
HistorySpeaks4Itself 2 months ago
@bluehavencd
Winston Churchill: (continued)
" It is quite clear that all concerned in this crime who may fall into our hands, including the people who only obeyed orders by carrying out the butcheries, should be put to death after their association with the murders has been proved. Declarations should be made in public, so that everyone connected with it will be hunted down and put to death."
HistorySpeaks4Itself 2 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself Winston Churchill was bought and paid for by the an American Jewish media outlet known as "The Focus", look it up.
The only genocides or mass killings I have ever discovered through my research has been Jewish influenced killings of innocents such as: Armenian Genocide, Ukrainian Genocide and the German Genocide of 1946-47 when more than 10 million German civilians were deliberately starved to death.
Look up Genrikh Yagoda, then tell me Jews are victims....
nomorenigsplease 2 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself Look at Palestine today and tell me Jews are victims. Their entire existence has been one of usurping and corruption and then portraying themselves as victims.
nomorenigsplease 2 months ago
@nomorenigsplease
So in a nutshell, your belief is that because of "palestine today", the innocent victims of genocide 60 years ago were actually not victims at all. I guess in your eyes, those children and old women got what was coming to them, eh?
HistorySpeaks4Itself 2 months ago
Oh My God.,!!!! Oh My Dios.,., malditos Nazis .,.,hijos de puta.,
martiniano56 2 months ago
Jewish Population in 1932: 15.1 million
Jewish Population in 1949: 15.9 million
If 6 million died, there wouldn't be more than 10 million. This number does not compute, nor add up. Is there a cover up? YES!
bluehavencd 2 months ago
@bluehavencd
If you want to be taken seriously, please provide a valid source for your statistics.
HistorySpeaks4Itself 2 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself World Almanacs...but can you provide me with anything calling the camps a Holocaust from English, or American reports, or the term coined as such by Churchill or Roosevelt?
bluehavencd 2 months ago
@bluehavencd
Are you establishing the World Almanac as a rock solid source of population statistics, then?
HistorySpeaks4Itself 2 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself It's been accurate as far as populations are concerned, US stats, GNP's. And the numbers mentioned of 4-6 million, don't add up to anything. I'm more concerned about if there's a cover up. This debacle will never be properly clear, so it's no use to debate anyway. You don't believe anything you may throw at me and I won't believe anything you tell me. One thing I will say, at least you didn't cuss, I commend you for it. Happy Holidays.
bluehavencd 2 months ago
@bluehavencd
Excellent...now that you have established that the World Almanac is a rock solid source of population statistics, perhaps you should actually read it. The 1939 World Almanac listed the Jewish population at 16.6 million, the 1947 at 11.2 million. On every World Almanac in between, it clearly states that the figures were derived from "Latest available data, 1938". I guess your own reliable source has answered any doubts or questions you may have had, correct?
HistorySpeaks4Itself 2 months ago
@bluehavencd
To be more specific, the 1949 World Almanac (the one you claimed listed the world Jewish population at 15.9 million) uses 1947 data, and lists the number at 11,266,600 to be precise. Remember, we're using the accurate source that YOU provided, we're just using the actual numbers instead of made-up stuff. See for yourself, and then either change your mind or lose any chance you have of not calling yourself a blatant hypocrite.
HistorySpeaks4Itself 2 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself Only in 1949 are postwar estimates employed, the figures given are for estimates made in 1948. A year or two lag seems to be common for various other population estimates given by the World Almanac. The difference between the 1938 and 1948 figures is thus 4,481,491.
bluehavencd 2 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself In 1949, however, the World Almanac gives a revised 1939 population of 16,643,120 giving a difference of between 1938 and 1947 of 5,376,520. Where the extra population between 1938 and 1939 came from is not cited, though one might speculate that it was based upon the Nazi estimates made in 1942 for the Wannsee Conference. Despite the apparent exactness of the numbers listed, the World Almanac warns that all numbers listed are estimates.
bluehavencd 2 months ago
@bluehavencd
Let's review. Your initial "point" was that according to the World Almanac (which you established as an accurate source of population statistics) the world Jewish population actually increased from 15.1 million to 15.9 million from 1932 to 1949, revealing a "cover up". You now openly acknowledge that not only to be blatantly false, but you even denounce your own source of reference, as it becomes clear that it does not support what you choose to believe.
Enough said.
HistorySpeaks4Itself 2 months ago
The Holocaust is the most documented genocide in history. Eye-witness accounts. Photos. Videos. Books. Records. The horror, fear, torture that the victims endured until their gruesome deaths is unfathonable. At the mercy of sadistic Nazi/SS officers. Those who deny the Holocaust certainly are trying to convince themselves that it never happened for their own bigoted antisemitic reasons. I feel it is important for us to learn about it study it and teach our children about it.
mightyoak11111 4 months ago
@mightyoak11111 blablabla,i have yet to see an irrefutable proof,even a document.when people like you get in my front i am almost certain i can tell everything i want(except if it goes against majority opinion) that you will believe,you look like an audio tape from the media.
hilletehnoob 3 months ago
@mightyoak11111 "The Holocaust is the most documented genocide in history."
Just an illusion created by the medias...
Judge Gray, indictment of the Irving-Lipstadt trial (2000):
"I have to confess that, in common I suspect with most other people, I had supposed that the evidence of mass extermination of Jews in the gas chambers of Auschwitz was compelling. I have, however, set aside this preconception when assessing the evidence adduced by the parties in these proceedings."
kazan188 2 months ago
@mightyoak11111 "The Holocaust is the most documented genocide in history"
"The archives torn from the bowels of the Third Reich permit us to reconstruct in their least detail the birth and the development of its plans for aggression and the whole range of processes by which the Nazis intended to reshape the world to their pattern. Only the campaign to exterminate the Jews remains steeped in fog. No document remains, and has perhaps never existed." (Leon Poliakov, Breviary of Hate, 1979)
kazan188 2 months ago
The camera is supposed to be hidden in a bag. How can it turn to the map without us to see a part of this bag?
kazan188 6 months ago
@Simonwanders Why is holocaust denial against the law? Truth doesn't fear investigation! Any other historical event is forbidden to the historians as the holohoax is. Any other historical event need to be protected by the law. All the other historical events can be denied if enough proofs are brought to demonstrate it...apart from the holocaust. ;-)
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 It is not against the law in the US or the UK. Where it is against the law, it is deemed to be incitement to riot.
P1B1U1H1 6 months ago
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@P1B1U1H1 "It is not against the law in the US or the UK. Where it is against the law, it is deemed to be incitement to riot."
Are you joking? Do you imagine the scene? Some people who have just learnt the the holocaust is a myth get angry and decide to burn and break everything because of that. Ridiculous. A totally fallacious 'reason'...
Where holocaust denial is not illegal, there is a complete black-out on that subject in the medias, what prevents debates on that subject too.
kazan188 6 months ago
@Simonwanders You're wrong. There are no evidence of the holocaust. The Nuremberg circus-trials made you think that, but in fact this masquerade didn't aim to prove anything. The article 21 of the Charter of the International Military Tribunal stipulated: "The Tribunal shall not require proof of facts of common knowledge but shall take judicial notice thereof." No material evidence at that 'trial'. Just alleged 'testimonies' and misinterpretaded documents in a supposely coded language...
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 A finding in Irving v. Lipstadt was that the Holocaust did occur. The suit was brought by Mr. Irving, meaning he accepted the Court's ability to render such decisions in his case.
P1B1U1H1 6 months ago
@P1B1U1H1 Judge Clay had to admit at the end of the Lipstadt-Irving trial (2000):
"I have to confess,that, in common I suspect with most other people, I had supposed that the evidence of mass extermination of Jews in the gas chambers of Auschwitz was compelling. I have, however, set aside this preconception when assessing the evidence adduced by the parties in these proceedings."
Proved holocaust? :-)
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 That says Mr. Justice Gray refused to considere information not presented in court when directing the trial proceedings & rendering judgment.
P1B1U1H1 6 months ago
@kazan188 no the holocaust was real. the fact it does not require proof to justify [in a few places] is to prevent history from repeating itself (with the advances in weapon tech that would be bad).
elistonium 6 months ago
@Simonwanders you ARE JUST NEONAZI WHO SIMPLY HATE JEWS" WRONG MORON.There are no gas chambers used to kill jews at all in WW2. What small gas chambers they had was to delouse clothes-small closed chambers with HEATING ELEMENTS for the pesticide to turn into gas.
"SO YOU CAN DENY, BUT ME AND MY TEAM WILL GO AFTER YOUR IP, THE MORE YOU WRITE DOWN THE MORE EVIDENCE WE HAVE" hey asshole-go fuck yourself douchebag-don't even try to threaten me punk-you can't bring me to court asshole-FUCK YOU
ed11561 6 months ago
Regardless of the exact truth, we know millions of innocent Jews were killed in horrible ways by nazis. So I say this with no regrets fuck the Nazis and fuck Hitler! May you all burn in hell.
Sorrysucker93 7 months ago
@Sorrysucker93 What about the millions killed by the USSR? Which was, by the way, mostly run by Jews. What about the refugee lines american pilots strafed?
Chickenwing1313 6 months ago
@Sorrysucker93 "Regardless of the exact truth, we know millions of innocent Jews were killed in horrible ways by nazis."
We've been said that millions of jews had died during WW2, but its not true. Look for "General Jaruzelski’s Surprise". In an interview Jaruzelski, the last communist president of Poland, has recently admitted that the communist Polish authorities have falsified the population statistics at he end of the war to make the holocaust "credible"... ;-)
kazan188 6 months ago
@Sorrysucker93 The World Almanac of 1947 and 1949 counted more jews AFTER WW2 than before. This little problem for the holocaust theory has naturally been "corrected" in later editions of the famous book... ;-)
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 WRONG! the revised 1939 population of jews in world almanac in 1939 was 16,643,120. the 1949 pop. was listed as 11,266,600.
stanbrekston 6 months ago
@stanbrekston In the 1949 edition of the world almanac, this strange 'mistake' has effectively been 'corrected'. But in the 1933 and 1948 editions, the population of jews was 15,315.359 and 15,753,658. These late 'corrections' are suspect, don't you think? Hadn't the writers of the almanac access to the newspapers of 1946 talking about the 'Nuremberg trials'? But before 49, it's true they hadn't to legitimate the existence of the new state of Israël, so they had no interest in lying... :-)
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 i assume you know that for world almanac that a year or two lag is common for their population est. so their 1949 est. was revised with the correct number. it has always been that way; there is nothing ambiguas going on. now, in a criminal investigation, who would the detectives question; the eyewitnesses who were there & saw, or would they wait 2, 3 years later for the 'opinion' of people who were never even present? we're asked to dismiss testimomy from eywitness but believe the deni
stanbrekston 6 months ago
Anyone with half a brain can debunk this bullshit.And tell his story is horseshit
ed11561 7 months ago
@ed11561 well ed at least you're trying to prove that someone with half a brain can debunk this bullshit. major props!
stanbrekston 7 months ago
2:31 IF GAS WAS CONSTANTLY ESCAPING(you lying fuck) YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN DEAD ASSHOLE. lol hahahahaha lying fuck.
BTW notice how he's constantly looking into the camera? This asshole KNOWS he was being filmed.Probably a fucking zionist jew himself.hahaha
ed11561 7 months ago
Yeah but don't use my name-NEIN NEIN-you dirty jew fucking lying spy cock sucker-LIAR.
ed11561 7 months ago
This movie is not a documentary. Wake up! In his book 'Pietà', Swedish Jewish Professor Georg Klein told of a conversation he had with Rudolf Vrba in 1987. Klein asked him if his statements in the film 'Shoa' were really true. Vrba answered: “I do not know. I was just an actor and I recited my text.” The actors of this film received a script telling them what to say and they were paid 3,000 deutschmarks by Claude Lanzmann for their acting performance. ;-)
kazan188 7 months ago
@kazan188
Lol, are you actually claiming that the people in the film are not who they say they are, or that they are indeed who they claim to be but have all taken acting lessons? I can't wait to hear the answer!!!
HistorySpeaks4Itself 7 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself
Sure they are who they say they are. No, they haven't taken acting lessons. It's easy to see in the whole movie that they are so bad actors. Do you know who is Rudolf Vrba, the man who admitted he recited his text? He's 'just' one of the three escaped jew whose 'eyewitness' founded the famous War Refugee Board report that officialized the holocaust story in the Roosevelt administration. Nothing more, nothing less...
kazan188 7 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself
Rudolf Vrba, a fundamental element of the origin of the holohoax is a funny guy. He was called for the trial of a revisionist (Ernst Zundel) in the 80's and he had to 'testify'. During the Zundel trial, the lawyer of Zundel pointed out so many incoherences in the 'testimonies' he had made during and after the war that this jewish practical joker invoked the right to "the poetic license" (the right to invent and to lie in others words)... :-0
kazan188 7 months ago
@kazan188
Gosh, I wonder what the reason might be that you have such unshakable faith in the testimony of Rudolf Vrba, but not in that of tens of thousands of survivors, perpetrators, liberators, and witnesses from all over the world? Of course the reason is obvious.
Ever wonder why the chancellor of Germany, the German Pope, or scientists/chemists of German descent do not share your theories? I guess that is why people like you are confined to the pages of youtube and the like.
HistorySpeaks4Itself 7 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself
I had faith in the testimony of Rudolf Vrba and in the hundreds testimonies of 'witnesses' who swore on their life that they had seen gas chambers in Dachau, Belsen, Buchenwald and 13 other camps...but they all disappointed me because they were all liars (it has been proven). And you, why do you have so much faith in the 'testimonies' of the 'survivors' of 6 alleged "death camps' knowing that the 'survivors' of 16 camps were proved to be liars? ;-)
kazan188 7 months ago
@kazan188
Did you miss something? How easily you dismiss from your mind that it is certainly not only survivors that witnessed the gas chambers. There are thousands of British, American, and Russian soldiers, Polish and German civilians, and German and Ukrainian soldiers who disagree with you - of course you know more about the subject than the people that were there, right? I myself know or am related to people that were involved on all ends of the equation, and millions know at least one.
HistorySpeaks4Itself 7 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself The fact you say that thousands of British and American soldiers saw gas chambers proves that you are much more arrogant than well-informed. Actual 'official' History counts 6 nazi 'extermination camps' that are said to have had homicidal gas chambers (or gas vans) - Auschwitz-Birkenau, Majdanek, Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor and Chelmno - ALL located in Poland and liberated by Soviets. So if a British or American soldier claimed that he saw a gas chamber, he's a liar. ;-)
kazan188 7 months ago
@kazan188 Actually, you're the only one here that comes off as arrogant. Dachau, in Germany, while not officially an extermination camp, did have gas chambers AND it was liberated by Americans. Look it up asshole.
hellodude82 7 months ago
@hellodude82
A gas chamber in Dachau?! A new typical holocaust believer as ignorant as the other ones. Dachau had a delousing gas chamber (for clothes) like all other nazi camps. Holocaust propaganda tried to create a homicidal gas chamber in Dachau but reading the sign in this alleged gas chamber (removed in 2003) shows how ridiculous it is: " Gas chamber disguised as a shower room - never used as a gas chamber." Or in other words a simple shower room turned to a gas chamber in propaganda.
kazan188 7 months ago
@kazan188 HOLO-HOAX LIES. That's all these bastards propose.This guy being interviewed is going to spew the same horseshit lies that he did while in captivity being tortured by the allies. There were no fucking gas chambers as you said.
People falling out like potatoes..HAHAHAHA
Another asshole said the women died STANDING UP....lol
Feeble minds can't understand that it was bulllshit to SAVE THEIR LIVES......hahahahhahaha
ed11561 7 months ago
@ed11561
Many minds can't go beyond the terrible pictures of the liberation of nazi camps and analize them with a critical spirit. Emotions totally blind these people. They know they were lied about Saddam's mass destruction weapons and many other things, but can't imagine one second their government and medias could have done the same about their sacred 'holocaust'...
kazan188 7 months ago
@kazan188 It's not just lying about the Holo-Hoax,But they benefit big time to continue this bulldshit hoax.Germany still pays reparations.Israel gets money up the ass from the US $3,000,000,000 Over the table & $12,000,000,000 UNDER the table. Fucking paracites. And they use that Trick anytime they want to.Along with yelling anti-semitic bullshit.
watch?v=1oqJH1KXlPs
ed11561 7 months ago
@ed11561
And they got the country they were crying for during many centuries. The terrible scenes seen in nazi camps at the end of the war has been a real chance for zionists. Other advantage of the holohoax: jews became untouchable in the western countries and so became more powerful than ever in these countries...
kazan188 7 months ago
@kazan188 And they got a famous Hollywood jew director to film all of their propaganda films right after the allies took over the Camps.With fake human skin lampshades-that disappeared when it became know of the fake and Shrunken heads from S.America that were used for propaganda & fake tattooed skin -some being paper. lol
They used the props well.
ed11561 7 months ago
@ed11561
The Psychological Warfare Division of the Allied Forces has perfectly done his job (PsyOp). It began with Albert G. Rosenberg, a jewish American lieutenant, born and raised in Germany, who has 'documented' Buchenwald for the PWD. He was helped by the famous jewish propagandist/filmmaker Billy Wilder to demonize the nazis by filming the bad health condition of the prisoners of the destroyed Reich unable to avoid this catastrophy.
holocaustdenialvideos. com >>buchenwald
kazan188 7 months ago
@kazan188 That's the guy Billy Wilder-i forgot his name.Oh so true.He made all those "Newsreels" for the propaganda in the movie theatres-previews of what was NOT happening in the war. Kinda like today where they never show you all the BODYBAGS of our soldiers killed in Iraq,etc.Coming home with no arms or legs & complete vegetables.
because scumbags like bush&cheneyNEEDED A WAR to conquer more 3rd world nations
Google USA MILITARY INCURSIONS in the last 100 years.USA=#1 TERRORIST NATION TODAY
ed11561 7 months ago
@kazan188 hey kazan188! look who you got on your side. ed11561. that's bringing out the big guns.
stanbrekston 7 months ago
@stanbrekston No just since my eyes were opened up to all the bullshit lies assholes like you spread. Holohoax my ass. Just since the israeli zionist jew fucks have been allowed to kill at will ANYONE they say is plotting against them.
Just when people are killled in INTERNATIONAL WATERS when the zionist jew fucks have no business raiding ships & killing indiscriminately after a ship has been searched 3 times by different governments for arms.
So go fuck yourself u jew loving scumbag fuck.
ed11561 7 months ago
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@hellodude82 Dachau, in Germany, while not officially an extermination camp, did have gas chambers -SMALL GAS CHAMBERS TO DELOUSE CLOTHES & MATTRESSES NOT TO KILL PEOPLE. They were too small for that purpose anyway.And the supposed gas chambers were not gas chambers.All the holes in the roofs to supposedly drop Zyklon B were built AFTER THE WAR. Holo-hoax is a fucking lie.
ed11561 7 months ago
@hellodude82 "Dachau, in Germany, while not officially an extermination camp, did have gas chambers AND it was liberated by Americans"
A delousing gas chamber (for clothes) and a simple shower transformed into a gas chamber by the Allied propaganda. Look at the plaque which was in this shower "Gas chamber disguised as a shower room - NEVEr used as a gas chamber". In other words a simple shower. Do you think the former Allies will admit they lied for propaganda reasons (denazification)? ;-)
kazan188 6 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself "There are thousands of British, American, and Russian soldiers, Polish and German civilians, and German and Ukrainian soldiers who disagree with you"
British and American soldiers were cheated by their own propaganda services and German soldiers were tortured (read "American atrocities in Germany" by Judge Van Roden) or lied to save their own life: the goal of the Nuremberg 'trials' wasn't to prove or disprove the holocaust; their only chance was to charge their superiors
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 i agree with HistorySpeaks4itself. if you doubt anything else; whether it be the documents from the nazis themselves; the photos & film footage; you can't doubt the testimonies from the thousands & thousands of eyewitnesses; german,american,russian,italian.british & polish soldiers; russian,german,polish,ukrainian civilians etc. & they've all been consistant in one thing; whether it was mass shootings of jews, or horrific activity in extermination camps a holocaust happened against the
stanbrekston 6 months ago
@kazan188 them. & thru time, even today, with their frail bodies still clinging to life some of these people are still giving testimony. they are not being tortured to reveal the things they did or saw. on youtube look at, 'the wehrmact series', & listen to those old german soldiers, who again, were not being tortured, tell what they & their kamrads did in the army. these arn't some old jews talking who you wouldn't believe anyway. listen to old lithuanian auxileries tell how they massecred jews
stanbrekston 6 months ago
@stanbrekston i've watched "the wehrmacht series: the crimes". But I have a problem with British war documents because there were also British documents about the alleged gas chambers in the camps they had liberated, like Bergen Belsen, that are now known to have been simple shower rooms. Those generals starting to 'confess' all their 'crimes' for the mics of the secret services, it's too good to be true. Do you think they wouldn't have anything else to speak about? Women, wives , familes, etc?
kazan188 6 months ago
@stanbrekston Those alleged 'witnesses' spoke about the Commissar Order. If they had, they should know this document wasn't about the extermination of the jews but about the peculiar measures to take for the East Front war. It says that "political commissars are, as a matter of principle, to be finished immediately with a weapon." A war crime? What happened to the German soldiers in the hands of the Soviets? Most were shot. War is a war, and that one was specially hard on both sides.
kazan188 6 months ago
@stanbrekston How many people were shot in Vietnam by the GI's to fight communism? Why would the Germans not be allowed to use hard methods to fight communism? To shoot the partisans of an enemy regime and ideology (communism in this case) is very different from the extermination of a people. Most of these communist commissars were jews, it's true, but they were not killed because they were jewish but because they were the actors of an antagonist way of life and regime.
kazan188 6 months ago
@stanbrekston
The Wehrmacht series: the crimes
All those Generals alledgly speaking about their 'crimes' in front of the British microphones and none of them seems to have heard anything about Auschwitz or any gas chambers. They don't mention any murder by gas in camps or massive transports of jews to certain places like Auschwitz. Strange, no?
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 none of those generals to my knowlege were ever in any of those camps so i would not expect them to be speaking on this. but the ones who were in russia speaks about the mass shootings don't they? if you want to hear someone mention 'murder by gas in camps or massive transports of jews', then why don't you read the 1971 interviews of an 'untortured' franz stangl, the kommandant of treblinka, (you can't get any better), in the book by gitta sereny, 'INTO THAT DARKNESS', AMAZON.COM
stanbrekston 6 months ago
@stanbrekston
Gitta Sereny, jewish 'specialist' of the holocaust:
"Why on earth have all these people who made Auschwitz into a sacred cow? A terrible place -- but it was not an extermination camp."
kazan188 6 months ago
@stanbrekston "none of those generals to my knowlege were ever in any of those camps so i would not expect them to be speaking on this."
No need to see those camps. So huge numbers of jews as those announced transported to these camps would have made them question themselves and their collaborators. They would have talked about it together. And all those alleged remorse sounds fake, I find. It doesn't fit with the image of experienced old hardened German soldiers like those generals...
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 as for the hidden microphones; you guys are so frustrating. what if the transcripts had said that all those generals denied that there were any such thing as a genocide of jews? you'd be all over it screaming, SEE!, SEE! & you say 'those alleged witnesses spoke about the commisar order'. @ the time of the incidents most of those people didn't even know about the commisar order. & did not the fuhrer consider jews & bolshevists one in the same? hmm? you kill commisars you kill jews.
stanbrekston 6 months ago
@stanbrekston The Commissar order is evoked in the documentary you advised to me (the wehrmacht series). I said those transcripts of microphones recordings seemed doubtful to me. And if those transcript had said any such thing as a genocide of jews, I would try to learn more about them in order to see if they are reliable. Professor Hinsley, famous historian, wrote, there is nowhere in the myriads of intercepted (by British codebreakers) nazi messages any reference to gas chambers or gassings.
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 that 'commissar order' you keep throwing up to me, according to wiki was issued 6 june '41 but from what i remember it was first given in a meeting by hitler to his generals in march '41. it was basically to exterminate all captured partisans & commisars upon capture. as we know, to hitler communists & jews are one in the same. the einsatzgruppen was given a mandate to exterminate 'jewish bolshevism'. that's undeniable. the quote you attributed to gitta sereny; where is it from?
stanbrekston 6 months ago
@stanbrekston To eradicate jewish bolchevism doesn't mean to exterminate the jews. Everybody knows bolchevism was started by jews (Marx, Lenin, Trotsky...), lead by jews (bosses of the Russian communist party) and implemented by jews (commissars, NKVD, etc.). Communism is all jew. When Hitler says "jewish bolchevism", it just means "communism" and he doesn't mean that all jews are bolchevists. Hasn't America also tried "to eradicate communism"?
Gitta Sereny: London Times, 29th august 2001.
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 'to eradicate jewish bolshevism doesn't mean to exterminate the jews'. hmm. well what exactly does it mean? when between 1.5 million & 2 million jews were exterminated & an untold number of communists as well. was the fuhrer just kidding? he didn't realy mean it? then that would mean that thousands of troops on their own initiative just decided to go on a killing orgy throughout the ussr.? & you do constantly 'throw up' the commisar order when there were other discussions of genocide.
stanbrekston 6 months ago
@stanbrekston " 'to eradicate jewish bolshevism doesn't mean to exterminate the jews'. hmm. well what exactly does it mean?"
It means to shoot the communist commissars who were present in the combat zones, as the Russians did to most of the captured nazis. The number of 1.5 to 2 million jews killed by bullets is even less argumented than the number of people supposely killed in Auschwitz (4 million between 1946 and 1990; 1 million today; non-deniers' numbers only). :-)
kazan188 6 months ago
@stanbrekston
You're funny with your unargumented millions of jews supposely killed in ussr. Inform yourself about the soviet evacuation of the jews before the nazis arrived. According to you, who colonized the new state of Israel and recolonized many other countries (Europe, USA, Canada, Australia, etc.) by millions just after WW2? Ghosts?
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 proove it. point by point you give us YOUR version of what took place at treblinka. you have the floor. we're waiting....
stanbrekston 6 months ago
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@stanbrekston "give us YOUR version of what took place at treblinka"
Treblinka was a transit camp, like Sobibor and Belzec. Those camps are all located on the former border between Prussia and Russia. The rail gauge of Prussia (standard gauge) and Russia (russian gauge) is different. So the deported jews had to change of train at that 'border'. Transit camps were perfectly logical there, but not extermination camps (too far from cities; nearer isolated places would have been easier).
kazan188 6 months ago
@stanbrekston In fact the holocausters claim that these camps weren't transit camps but 'pure extermination camps'. But the nazi terminology contradicts them. For instance the Nuremberg document NO-482 is a Himmler's staff document (translation) of July 1943 about the "Transient (transit) camp of Sobibor". You can also watch the movie "one third of the holocaust" on youtube if you want more information about the Treblinka hoax... ;-)
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 that's all very nice what you just said but what i'd like to know is whether the above ss man in YOUR opinion, correct or incorrect in his interview? if you say he's correct then obviously you yourself believe that treblinka is a 'pure extermination camp'. if in your opinion, as a denier, he is incorrect, then please, point by point, enlighten us as to what he is in error of. give us YOUR version of what it was like in treblinka. & who knows; if you're persuasive enough i might believ
stanbrekston 6 months ago
@stanbrekston Suchomel says that people were killed by gas exhaust in Treblinka. The problem is that the other 'witnesses' claim that Diesel engines were used for that. Diesel engines produce an impressive black smoke but diesel fumes can't kill (healthy people in great number). The only known case of death caused by diesel fumes is the case of a 83-year-old man with heart diseases (S. Sivaloganathan, "Death From Diesel Fumes."Journal of Clinical Forensic Medicine 5 (1998), pp. 138-139).
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 my friend you write that, "suchomel says that people were killed by gas exhaust in treblinka. the problem is that the other 'witnesses' claim that diesel engines were used for that'. well if you look @ 4:45 of the above video suchomel says that, 'a tank engine was used in that gas chamber'. & if you look up treblina in wiki it tells you that a soviet tank used diesel. suchomel & the other 'witnesses' agree. now again, please tell us, in your opinion is suchomel correct or incorrect?
stanbrekston 6 months ago
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@stanbrekston "please tell us, in your opinion is suchomel correct or incorrect?"
In my opinion, Suchomel is lying. 1,800 dollars (3,000 deutschmarks) were a very big sum of money in the 70's (when this film was shot). You could find individuals ready to lie for money everywhere, in every army of the world. And about the others 'witnesses' I think that lies were regular for money, fame, revenge (against those who had imprisoned them and forced them to work) and to avoid jail for life...
kazan188 6 months ago
@stanbrekston " if you look up treblina in wiki it tells you that a soviet tank used diesel."
In fact Diesel fumes are one of the less efficient method to kill people. Diesel fumes produce very low CO levels (MAX 0.5%). Gasoline fumes would be much more efficient (5% CO) and wood gas fumes (very common during WW2 because of oil lacks) would have been the best way to gas many people (35% CO!). But no 'witness' has ever spoke about those very typical and recognizable wood gas engines...
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 my friend, as i warned you before you decided to take on my challenge, your credibility is on the line. now you have a very clear choice in front of you. there is no wiggle room. you came to this site telling everyone that among other things that there were no gas chambers. you did it on a site where an ss gaurd who was there clearly contradicts you. not too smart. time for the tap dancing to end. once & for all tell us. in your opinion is suchomel correct or is he lying to us?
stanbrekston 6 months ago
@stanbrekston "an ss gaurd who was there clearly contradicts you"
And doesn't the fact that this former SS guard describes a killing method which is scientifically impossible answer your question about his lies? Do you really think that the country with the best engineers, physicists and chemists of that time would have used such a ridiculous and unefficient method as gassing with a diesel engine? Do you think that these nazi scientists wouldn't have thought about using wood gas engines?
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188
Your testimony about the diesel issue is confusing, my friend: one second, it is "a killing method which is scientifically impossible", and the next it is "one of the less efficient method[s] to kill people".
You're the one who is complaining about inconsistency in the narrative, but it appears you are quite good at it yourself.
MSM4U2POM 2 months ago
@MSM4U2POM "one second, it is "a killing method which is scientifically impossible", and the next it is "one of the less efficient method[s] to kill people"."
I was trying to say that diesel gassings wouldn't have been a convenient mass killing method. You can read "Death From Diesel Fumes" (S. Sivaloganathan, Journal of Clinical Forensic Medicine 5 (1998), pp. 138-139) about the only documented example of a death from diesel exhaust, the suicide of a 83 yo man with heart disease... ;-)
kazan188 2 months ago
@kazan188
The plot thickens: first you say it is 'scientifically impossible', then you post an instance of where it has been scientifically proven to have happened!!!
Am I to take it, therefore, that when holocaust survivors say something which doesn't add up, they are lying through their teeth; but when YOU do, it is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
MSM4U2POM 2 months ago
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@MSM4U2POM "The plot thickens: first you say it is 'scientifically impossible', then you post an instance of where it has been scientifically proven to have happened!!!"
Oh shit. I'm caught. I have just proved that 83 YO people with heart disease could have been exterminated, one by one, with diesel fumes.;. :-)
kazan188 2 months ago
@MSM4U2POM "Your testimony about the diesel issue is confusing, my friend."
There's a capîtal principle in toxicology that says "The dose makes the poison" ("All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous.", Paracelsus). You can kill somebody by making him drink pure water if you have enough of if (& enough time), but it doesn't make drinking pure water a convenient killing method because of that... Am I clearer??
kazan188 2 months ago
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@MSM4U2POM "Your testimony about the diesel issue is confusing"
If you are interested in that matter, you can also read "The Toxicity of Fumes from Diesel Engine under Four Different Running Conditions" (by R. E. Pattle, H. Stretch, F. Burgess, K. Sinclair, and J. A. G. Edginton, The British Journal of Industrial Medicine, 1957, 14, pp. 47-55) and you will see that those scientists took more than 4 hours to kill a few rodents with diesel undiluted fumes at maximum running condition. ;-)
kazan188 2 months ago
@stanbrekston Do you really think that if I pay enough money I won't find any GI ready to lie and to say in front of a camera that America gassed Viet Congs in gas chambers? What about the gas chambers that Saddam Hussein was supposed to have in an article of "The Jewish Press" of the 15th February of 1991 ("Iraqis have gas chambers for all jews")? Not found yet or just another war propaganda lie? What about the "steam chambers" supposely used in Treblinka (Nuremberg document 3311-PS)? War lie.
kazan188 6 months ago
@stanbrekston One third of the alledged holocaust killed by the diesel impossibility. Too bad for you, no? :-)
kazan188 5 months ago
@kazan188 no, not all gas chambers used diesel at auschwitz they used prussic acid but of course you wont believe that either. my friend i've been patient with you but you refused to give me your simple yes or no opinion on suchomel. instead i get parranoia about tortured prisoners confessions, paid off GI's to lie about viet cong gassing sadam hussein Jewish press, 'steam chambers' etc. it's a tactic of deniers; when you can't answer a question you try to distract with unimportant facts; trivia
stanbrekston 5 months ago
@stanbrekston "not all gas chambers used diesel at auschwitz they used prussic acid "
So you recognize that diesel gas chambers and gas vans were technically impossible??
"you refused to give me your simple yes or no opinion on suchomel"
Read my previous comments. I've already answered that in my opinion he's a liar (and a very bad actor) 'testifying' just for money.
kazan188 5 months ago
@kazan188 now that we finally established that you say suchomel is a liar, please, point by point, tell us what he is wrong on. from parts1 to 7 point out where he's lying. & then tell us your 'recollections' of what went on at treblinka.
stanbrekston 5 months ago
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kazan188 5 months ago
@stanbrekston
It's interesting to note that the Jews are only mentioned in eighth and last place in the execution order of October 29, 1941 given to the Einsatzgruppen and that only a category of Jews is concerned. I quote: "8) Soviet Russian and Jewish intellectuals, INSOFAR AS they are professional revolutionaries or political activists, authors, editors, Komintern officials etc." (document labelled USSR-014 at the Nuremberg trials).
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 ok my friend let's put our cards on the table. i'm going to ask you an easy yes or no question. ah, but there's a catch & your credibility will be on the line. can you handle it? question, is the above former ss gaurd at treblinka correct in his testimony or is he incorrect? if your answer is yes, he's correct about the gas chambers & so forth then your arguments go down the toilet. If your answer is no, he is incorrect, now it will be YOUR word against HIS. & if that's the case
stanbrekston 6 months ago
@stanbrekston Not quite. Just like the trial of Adolf Eichmann these guys know this is a lie. But they do not want to be used as a stooge in the overall lie. Story within a story.
SeeleSchrie7 1 week ago
@stanbrekston I don't throw you this 'commissar order', like you say. You asked me to watch a documentary. I spent 1 hour doing it and when I speak about what is said in this documentary, you tell me "I keep throwing this commissar order up to you".
And about this commissar order? German soldiers were killed by partisans, war material was sabotaged, etc. Are we supposed to cry because Hitler played this war with the communist Russian rules?
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 picture in your mind a scale; on one side you have literally tons of contemporary documents recording the holocaust by the perpitrators, tons of photographs & miles of film recording the holocaust, testimony from thousands upon thousands of eyewitnesses who saw the holocaust, who experienced the holocaust, who perpitrated the holocaust. & on the other end of the scale you have the denier; who was never there, telling us 70 years later to believe them & not the evidence. what's heavier?
stanbrekston 6 months ago
@stanbrekston Tons of proofs of the holocaust? That's the illusion propagated by the medias. One example: at the end of the Lipstadt- Irving (denier) trial, Judge Clay declared:
""I have to confess,that, in common I suspect with most other people, I had supposed that the evidence of mass extermination of Jews in the gas chambers of Auschwitz was compelling. I have, however, set aside this preconception when assessing the evidence adduced by the parties in these proceedings."
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 after all the evidence to the contrary you're going to throw up to me the comments of one judge, who like you & the other deniers, was never even there? that's kind of feeble my friend. if i had commited a murder, i sure would want you on my jury. because if i was caught with a weapon in my hand & the victim at my feet & 50 witnesses that said they saw me do it, & my image on video showing that i did it, you'd still say, the witnesses were tortured, the victim did'nt die. it's a hoax.
stanbrekston 6 months ago
@stanbrekston I didn't throw you the comments of one judge, I gave you an example to show how much the gassing of the jews was unproven. The two parties implicated in this trial showed their best arguments and at the end the 'proofs' given by the Lipstadt (famous jewish historian) team didn't convince the judge that the gassing of jews was well-proven.
"The victims didn't die"
According to the Zionist Organization of America, only 2.5 million jews were still in all Europe when WW2 started.
kazan188 6 months ago
@kazan188 well according to the wansee conference there were 5 million jews in ussr. alone. you gave me an example to show how much the gassing of the jews was unproven? didn't you even take a peek at the above interview with the ss officer? the guy was there by the way & i don't think you were. how are you going to prove to me that gassing never took place when even the kommandant of treblinka admitted to it? are you just going to say more 'jewish lies'? to my knowlege franz stangl not a jew.
stanbrekston 6 months ago
@stanbrekston Wannsee conference: 4,536,500 jews in German-occupied Europe. About the Russian jews, most of them had been evacuated to the east of Russia by the soviets before the nazis arrived in Russia.
About Suchomel, the guard heard in this video, don't you know that Lanzmann admitted that he had paid the German 'witnesses' of his film (3,000 deutschmarks) and that Rudolf Vrba, another 'witness' of this film, admitted that he had got a script telling him what to say (Pièta, G. Klein).
kazan188 6 months ago
@stanbrekston Witnesses? And what about the 'witnesses' - alleged victims, perpetrators and liberators - who 'testified' after WW2 and told us that there were homicidal gas chambers in Dachau, Bergen Belsen, Buchenwald and tens of others camps in Germany, what we knew to be false decades later? If we've been lied about tens of camps, why would we be told the truth for the 6 'remaining' camps?
Revisionists 70 years later? Rassinier, jailed in nazi camps, started denouncing the lie in the 40's.
kazan188 6 months ago
Sorry to break it to you, but you are clearly in the category of pretty much all deniers, where your story simply changes direction whenever you hit a road block. You've already decided what you want to believe, don't let the facts get in your way. Your initial argument was that diesel fumes could not kill at all, and you c&p efforts proved you don't even read your own support material. Under those circumstances, what's the point? Thanks for wasting my time.
HistorySpeaks4Itself 7 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself
You distort my previous comments. Typical holocaust believers method. You put the reality out of shape until it says there was a holocaust. I said that diesel fumes wouldn't have been able to kill so many people in REALISTIC periods of time and that it would have been a too unefficient weapon of mass killing. If you don't care how long it takes, everything can kill, even drinking water in enormous amounts.
kazan188 7 months ago
@kazan188 And you, why do you have so much faith in the 'testimonies' of the 'survivors' of 6 alleged "death camps' knowing that the 'survivors' of 16 camps were proved to be liars?
Where can i find the source of that proof? The survivors of 16 camps were PROVEN liars? I'd luv to have that in my argument pouch. lol Can you send it to me please? Thanks.
ed11561 6 months ago
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@ed11561
h-tt-p://w-ww.youtube.co-m/wa-tch?v=VTjYB4q0PlU
h-tt-p://revforum.yourforum.or-g/viewtopic.ph-p?f=2&t=6058 (without the dashes)
The movie "holocaust deniers please watch" (youtube) made by Simon Wiesenthal in the 60's or 70's still names 17 former 'death camps'. Look for "extermination camps" in wikipedia for instance and you'll find only 6 alleged former nazi 'death camps' still considered so today... ;-)
kazan188 6 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself
About the alleged 'perpetrators', read "American Atrocities in Germany" by American Judge Van Roden (Dachau trial) if you want to have an idea of the methods used by Allies to get these 'testimonies'. You can also read "Legion of Death" (by Rupert Butler) in which one of the former torturers of Rudolf Hoess (the last commandant of Auschwitz) proudly admits that his British team of torturers had to beat Hoess during 3 days to get "a proper testimony". :-o
kazan188 7 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself
Concerning the acting talent of the 'witnesses' of this movie, I have one remark. Suchomel is often looking at the camera during his show. Obviously not an actors studio's former student. If it had been the case, it's one of the 1st things he would have been taught. But you will probably tell me that he 's a well-known bag lover (the camera is said to be hidden in a bag) and that that's why he always watch in that direction...
kazan188 7 months ago
This liar said he has participated to gassings of human beings and admitted it in a film. Has he been judged after this interview and sent to jail for life? Answering this question is answering the question "is he saying the truth in this interview?"...
kazan188 7 months ago in playlist world history
@kazan188
He'd already been convicted, jailed, and released at the time this interview was conducted. By your own definition, I guess that pretty much answers your last question now doesn't it? Might want to study up a little better next time, lest you make a fool out of yourself.
HistorySpeaks4Itself 7 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself
Not jailed for life for his active participation to gassings of so many people? Only 7 years of imprisonment as a sentence, and just 4 years really served. Not strange to you?
But 4 years in jail is a big punishment for gassing people in a gas chamber which wouldn't be able to kill anyone. Diesel gas chambers are a ridiculous hoax.
kazan188 7 months ago
@kazan188
Apparently you are not aware that those responsible for the creation of the death camps who issued orders to subordinates like suchomel were executed. pol pot in Cambodia was never even tried for a crime, by your logic does that make him innocent as well?
As for diesel gas "not being able to kill anyone", do you think if you strapped on a respirator fed with only diesel exhaust that you would be feelin' fine after a minute or two? If so, have a cookie little fella.
HistorySpeaks4Itself 7 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself
The responsible of the death camps were executed. You said it. Why have British killed Himmler, 'the architect of the camps', BEFORE the Nuremberg circus-trials? What an inconvenient 'testifier' he would have been for the successfull birth of the holocaust story! It was much easier to tell the holocaust lies to the chief of the air army (I mean Göring), isn't it?
I'll not probably feel fine if I breath diesel but I won't die. It's certain.
kazan188 7 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself
About diesel fumes I recommand to read this article: The Toxicity of Fumes from Diesel Engine
under Four Different Running Conditions By R. E. Pattle, H. Stretch, F. Burgess, K. Sinclair, and J. A. G. Edginton, The British Journal of Industrial Medicine, 1957, 14, pp. 47-55. During this experiment, mice, rabbits and guinea pigs were submitted to undiluted diesel fumes in a gas chamber. After 5 hours, 0 animal had died. Maybe jews are more fragile than guinea pigs?
kazan188 7 months ago
@kazan188
Thanks for the article. Perhaps to prove your theory that "diesel fumes cannot kill", you would have been better off referencing an experiment in which the mortality rate was not 100% during exposure under that pesky "Condition D" Did you even read the article yourself?. Shall I spell it out slowly for you? Mice 40/40, Guinea Pigs 10/10, Rabbits 4/4 - all dead while under exposure to diesel fumes with a restricted inlet connection. Thanks again, I'll remember that.
HistorySpeaks4Itself 7 months ago
@HistorySpeaks4Itself
If you like articles, maybe you will like this one: S. Sivaloganathan, "Death From Diesel Fumes.", Journal of Clinical Forensic Medicine (1998) 5, pp. 138-139. It is about the ONLY reported case of death caused by diesel fumes (holocaust 'survivors'' stories excepted). It was a 83 year old man with heart diseases who committed suicide with a diesel engine... How much of this can you take, idiot? :-)
kazan188 7 months ago
@kazan188
Since your so keen on referencing experiments (lol), why do you suppose that none of your like-minded ilk have ever once recreated the circumstances in question to prove your collective theory? It wouldn't be hard to do at all. You seem to be fine with referencing obscure studies (that work against you, lol) - why haven't any of you ever put your money where your mouth is yourselves?
HistorySpeaks4Itself 7 months ago