Gideon Levy - Toronto- 1 of 7- The Punishment of Gaza

[ISEL333]

The Torah say holy land for israel,the nt of jesus say for israel,the quran also say land of israel.old map says land of sons of israel.

WHERE is palistine in all these books none of word.??????

QURAN

005.021 "O my people! Enter the holy land which God hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin."

LOOK ALSO ZABUR 135:12,136:22

GOD GAVE HOLY LAND ONLY TO SONS OF ׂISRAEL.

IF YOU ARE A MUSLIM YOU MUST SAY THE TRUTH.

[goer1234]

I'M israeli and I'd come to hear Gideon talk any time :-) as I read your columns. But generally that's true, the vast majority of Israelis choose not to see

[xplosivelilly]

@goer1234 i've realized this. israelis choose to live in a bubble and are very ignorant about the other point of view. but i think it's because they force themselves not to because Jews in general can't accept the fact they finally have a utopia to run to, but it causes so much trouble.

[goer1234]

@xplosivelilly In part most Israelis choose not see, but also the mainstream Israeli media (although accused of being "leftist") doesn't really show the horror of the Israeli occupation of the territories. And now as the occupation becomes internationally unaccepted and Israel gets isolated the right wing in Israel runs really loud and racist anti-arab propaganda and says that "the world is against us". So I don't expect the ignorance to be over soon

[xplosivelilly]

@goer1234 i just can't accept that in such a small country where tel aviv is just 30 mins from the west bank two completely different worlds exist and that the Israelis have no real idea what goes on. What i also find confusing army service is compulsory so i'm still at a loss how Israelis cud be so ignorant, they're very deluded. To me in Israel the left are elite Ashkenazi stuck ups while the right are just fanatical haters. So it's a lose lose situation when it comes to politics

[goer1234]

@xplosivelilly I went to a solidarity protest in Silwan once (a palestinian village which is municipally part of Jerusalem) and there stones being thrown and tear gas etc. And then the bus picked us up and after not 30 but 3 minutes driving there was no trace of all this chaos. I don't think this aspect is unique to Israel. You can live in a lovely part of a town anywhere in the world and not see the poverty and misery in another part.

[xplosivelilly]

@goer1234 what you say is very true. I'm from South America/Caribbean and the difference between rich and poor is vast; it's completely two different worlds. But the difference is with Israel and Palestine is that it's such a huge topic that dominated world headlines since Israel's birth, there must be some knowledge of what is going on.

[goer1234]

@xplosivelilly Of course people are aware of the conflict with the palestinians but many don't know and don't want to know the nature of the regime in the occupying territories. They don't know how brutal it is. How humiliating it is to live under a foreign military rule. And they also don't know how much the Israeli government prefers the continuation of the occupation over the safety of it own citizen.

[xplosivelilly]

@goer1234 then why aren't you like them? you actually have an idea what is going on.

[goer1234]

@xplosivelilly There's also strong and loud oposition to the occupation and to the discrimination against the arabs within Israel proper. There are human rights organizations and left movements and alternative media, and there are protests and tours in occupied territories, but unfortunately we're in a minority in the Israeli public. Some right wing politicians call us "traitors" and "terror assistants". what can you do? By the way, what do you have against Ashkenazi stuck ups? :-)))

[xplosivelilly]

@goer1234 lol i was now going to ask you who really consist of these 'liberals'...ashenakzi or sephardim? I'm very interested in Sephardim culture and from what i've read they're very discriminated against from the Ashkenazi ever since their arrival in Israel. I just feel sorry for them a little bit having to fled the arab homelands just to get mistreated by their own jewish kind in Israel.

[goer1234]

@xplosivelilly The real question is how do you know so much about Israeli history? Indeed the Sepharadim got screwed up by the Israeli establishment but they tend to be more right-wingers than the Ashkenazi. I think most of the Sepharadim are doing much better in the last 10 - 20 years. As for who consists of these 'liberals' - probably most of the are Ashkenazi but there are many Sepharadim as well.

[xplosivelilly]

@goer1234 :P cuz i'm very passionate about the whole palestinian issue, i can't believe with human's history after so much wars and oppression it still reincarnates to this day. I'm not against Jews having their own country but the fact is the land was stolen. I don't hate all Ashkenazis just the crazy ones like Lipni and Liberman (the crazy Russian 1). I also understand Israel is a complex country because it's the only Jewish one; so many different columns in such a small country

[goer1234]

@xplosivelilly Of course you're right about the fact that most people go to the army etc. so they do know something, but they justify the humiliation of the Palestinians with "security needs", and this is typical for the militaristic society: they don't belive that security can be achieved by fixing the unjustice and that the lack of security is a result of injustice. So they see the occupation and opression as being necessary

[xplosivelilly]

@goer1234 i think it's very unfortunate. I know in the most part in Israelis are moderate in religious thinking, i have no idea why they let those insane fanatics squat in the occupied territories, or that the Herderi freaks who dont serve in the army yet get pampered from Israeli and US tax payers money. I think Israel is a strange country. Most Palis just want back the WB/Gaza and let time run its course and both sides can live in their little bubbles.

[Johndot1000]

Levy, Finkelstein, Hedges. The triumvirate of truth.

[donazzura]

@Johndot1000 I don't know about Levy and Hedges but Finkelstein is one of the most dishonest historians there are. Don't believe anything that liar says.

[hamza1947]

great man...