ALTHOUGH I'M A CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN (Baptist), I no longer believe that the Bible teaches eternal torment or suffering. The Bible teaches eternal punishment, but it's not eternal torment. In my popular Internet article, TRADITIONAL DOCTRINE OF HELL EVOLVED FROM GREEK ROOTS, I explain how and why teaching of eternal torment entered early into Christianity and how Scriptures have been misinterpreted and taken out of context to support that teaching. ~Babu G. Ranganathan (B.A. theology/biology)
GOD, HEAVEN, AND SEX: Internet article examines the Biblical possibility of sex in heaven. Human sexuality isn't just for reproduction. There are reasons the Bible requires marriage for sex on earth, but those reasons won't exist in heaven. Scripture teaches, in heaven, we'll be like the angels only in one sense - no marriage, but we won't be like angels in every other way (i.e. Bible says we'll enjoy food and drink). Psalm 16:11 says there will be great spiritual joy and pleasures in heaven.
SCIENCE SHOWS THAT THE UNIVERSE could not have sustained itself eternally because of entropy. Einstein confirmed that space, matter, and time had a beginning! That beginning had to be supernatural because natural laws have no ability to bring the universe into existence from nothing. The supernatural cannot be proved by science but science points to a supernatural intelligence for the origin and order of the universe ~ HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM (Article)
NATURAL LIMITS TO EVOLUTION: Only evolution within "kinds" is genetically possible (i.e. varieties of dogs, cats, etc.), but not evolution across "kinds" (i.e. from worm to human). How were species living, reproducing if their reproductive system, vital structures, and organs hadn't evolved yet? Read my Pravda Internet article: WAR AMONG EVOLUTIONISTS! I discuss: Punctuated Equilibrium, "Junk DNA," genetics, mutations, natural selection, fossils, genetic/biological similarities between species.
DAWKINS, HITCHENS, AND HAWKING REFUSE TO DEBATE with creationists who are SCIENTISTS, such as the scientists at The Institute for Creation Research. Dawkins and his friends only debate non-scientist creationists. Read my popular Internet articles: ARE FOSSILS REALLY MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD? HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM, ANY LIFE ON MARS CAME FROM EARTH, WAR AMONG EVOLUTIONISTS! MISSING LINKS THAT NEVER WERE!
DO EYES CARRY SCARS OF EVOLUTION? Read this fantastic Internet article by biologist and creationist Brian Thomas. Thomas refutes every argument for a "flawed" design for the eye, and explains how and why the so-called flaw is actually the best thing for the eye. Read the article! It's amazing what facts evolutionists will ignore. Numerous times evolutionists have been proven wrong about their interpretation of a structure as being flawed in design or useless.
BLIND WATCHMAKER NO ARGUMENT. Natural selection is no "blind watchmaker" because it can only "select" from traits having survival value. It doesn't produce those traits. It only operates once there is life and reproduction, not before, so it couldn't be involved in life's origins. A partially-evolved cell (an oxymoron) would quickly disintegrate. It couldn't wait ("survive") millions of years for chance to complete it and then make it living! Read: HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM
@arjrpz Then is the rest of the bible also "poetic"? If so, why believe it all as though it were fact? Why dedicate your life to this specific "poem"?
The biggest problem in creationism is God. How do you define how He creates? The Bible really skips that whole topic. It doesn't really say how He does what He Does. It's just so stupid a argument to make this 'Science'. People who take things too literally just suck. They have no developed sense of Irony and can see no discernible grey area in life. I.E. they are dumb. They enforce laws to make children just as dumb as they are.
ok, peopla need to stop calling it a theory, science jargon is different from our everyday jargon, evolution is not a theory in our context, evolution is fact, tested and proven fact, deal with it
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Penn and Teller i thought you were better than this? theyre not being taught that the earth WAS created by a higher being, theyre being taught that some believe that and to be tolerant? whats wrong with that?
@Jwalton1194 You're missing the point, they're presenting to completely unequal viewpoints as being both equally valid. Would you be for History classes teaching that some people believe the Earth is flat and some believe it is round but it's all just opinion? No, they only teach what is factual and what is based in reality, fairy tales an nonsense has no place in Science class, it's fine to teach that other people have different views but that has no place in science classrooms.
@SayNoToTheism The earth is proven to be round. How it was created is proven neither way... In reality, being created by a higher being, and matter just being here forever in chaos are equally insane in my mind. No human can completely wrap their mind around either, so why not be tolerant of those who believe a different creation? If you only teach things that are PROVEN, then nothing about the earths beginnings would ever be taught.
@Jwalton1194 That's what I'm saying, I don't mind those religions or the people who follow them, I just don't want their specific beliefs presented to school students as fact, anyone can believe what they want but education should be unbiased and not controlled by one particular group of people.
@SayNoToTheism I respect what you just said, but they stated it wasn't being presented as fact, the key part of this in my opinion is at :39.... They arent cramming it down these kids throats, they're saying no one knows for sure and here are some theories.
"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world." (cont...)
(...cont) "The theory of biological evolution is more than "just a theory." It is as factual an explanation of the universe as the atomic theory of matter or the germ theory of disease. Our understanding of gravity is still a work in progress. But the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is an accepted fact"
Creationism (including ID) is NOT a scientific theory and to present it as equiviliant to evolution is disingenuous and dishonest.
@FSEffect Why do creationism and evolution have to be one or the other? I agree with evolution, but that doesn't answer where matter as we know it started (IE if it was created by a higher being or something along the lines of the big bang). Creationism as a theory does not have to be how the bible puts it. The big bang is not a scientific theory either, in my opinion its just as far fetched as creationism.
"Why do creationism and evolution have to be one or the other?"
In science, it is, because creationism is not science. It is not a scientific theory, there are no observable facts, testable hypothesis, and it invokes the supernatural.
"but that doesn't answer where matter..."
Why would it? Evolution does not address where matter came from because it does not aim to address how the unvierse started.
Your opinion does not matter in science. The big bang theory is science because it matches the criteria for a scientific theory. Creationism does not, readily admitted in court by the proponents.
@FSEffect The world is flat... What i just said is a scientific theory. It's falsifiable, i can make observations and hypotheses about it. It has been proven false of course. The universe as we know it was created by some higher being. What i just said is falsifiable, i can make observations and hypotheses about it, it is literally just as plausible as "matter has always existed, and the universe as we know it came from the big bang." I never said i belied in creationism, I believe in tolerance
@FSEffect maybe if you were taught tolerance you wouldn't be wasting your time on starting flame wars on youtube... enjoy hating people for their beliefs, im done here
If my way of stating things to you matter-of-factly like this is considered flaming, then you need to grow a thicker skin. Simply disagreeing with you is flaming, if you have no way of countering my points then by all means leave.
@halflifefan84 and if you read my comments you would know i agree completely with evolution and the earth in science... what i dont agree with are the origins of the universe as a whole, none of which is proven either side, and wont be for quite some time
@halflifefan84 "at its most bland meaning", you mean the fact that matter was created at some point? wow real convincing argument... so is creationism at its blandist meaning.... at some point, something caused matter to be created...
@Jwalton1194 If you want to believe in creationism, fine! Go ahead, it's not a bother to me. What is a bother to me, is when people start trying to teach something that ISN'T science in a science class. Allowing creationism to be taught in science class goes way above and beyond the borders of tolerance.
@FutureComputing They're not teaching it as science.... they are "encouraging students to be respectful and tolerant of those who may have different beliefs" look at all the ignorance revolving around atheists and non-atheists... and no i don't believe in creationism.
@Jwalton1194 The campaign shown here is an attempt to get creationism taught in science classes, yes?Again, "Allowing creationism to be taught in science class goes way above and beyond the borders of tolerance". Over here in the UK we have something called religious education. That's where we're taught about different religions and tolerance. Not science classes. You, I'm afraid seem to be the ignorant one.
@FutureComputing To your first point no... and once again I quote "Our intention is to promote a broad based curriculum which will ACKNOWLEDGE that there are differences in opinion." In history class we learned that some people say the holocaust never happened... I wasn't brainwashed into thinking it wasn't real, i just learned there were differing opinions. But this case is much more about tolerating the other side, and tolerance is just about the opposite of ignorance.
@Jwalton1194 Yes, they want to "promote a broad based curriculum which will ACKNOWLEDGE that there are differences in opinion". That means whilst your learning about the big bang theory or evolution, creationism will be presented as an alternative in science class. Creationism is a religious belief. It should NOT be acknowledged in science classes AT ALL because it is NOT science.
@Jwalton1194 this isn't an issue about tolerating the other side, it's about a deep perversion of science. Creationism and Intelligent Design are NOT science, they do not belong in a SCIENCE class room. They belong either in religious education classes or the church. It's been found by the US Supreme Court that Creationism and Intelligent Design are not science for a very good reason, it isn't and scientists have demonstrated multiple times that ID and Creationism are not SCIENCE.
so no, what you are saying doesn't matter. Here P&T are talking about these movements trying to teach in the SCIENCE class room. Science does not discern itself with opinions or beliefs, science only cares about what is provable and both Creationism and ID are in fact disproven by science, so they have not point in a SCIENCE class room. Do you get it yet? The issue here is an attempt to pervert science, science doesn't care about opinions/beliefs, Religious Education has no place in science.
@Jwalton1194 It isn`t tolerance when they try to teach it in the Science curriculum.... I concur with your view on tolerance, though I think that claiming "a broadbased SCIENCE curriculum which will acknowledge that there are differences of opinion on etc" would amount to the claim that in the name of tolerance we need to teach that someone thinks that the earth is flat(Flatearthsociety) and that it is a fact based probality.
@soldat41ghr the only problem is that the world has been proven to be round, not flat.... the origins of the universe, whether big bang or created by a higher being, has not been proven either way... I'm not saying they should teach the bible here.
@Jwalton1194 actually scientists have a very good picture of how Earth was created, there are issues around the moon but Earth itself is fairly straight forward. After all, there are planet creating processes going on around the universe but even that isn't actually needed. The Earth is a creation of collisions.
That said the issue isn't about what's proven, it's trying to call creationism science, which it isn't. It's a religious belief, it belongs in the religious education/church classes.
I swear that almost all creationists must have been absent from 8th grade science class on the day the teacher taught the difference between "hypothesis" and "theory".
And the argument of "Well you weren't there, so there's no way to really know what happened"? I sure hope these people are never picked for jury duty.
If I actually lived in the United States and was forced to learn the "science" of Creationism, I would just not go to class. I despise religious people that try to state that the bible is science. What a joke.
Goshka77: How can you be so ignorant? To claim, "Evolution is a Theory" is an admission of your failure to be educated. Evolution is a Science Fact! Species evolved either by cross breeding or by adaptation to their different environments. DNA testing PROVES this! Nothing aggravates me more than some uneducated person spouting off about a subject in which they know NOTHING about! Go back to school.
Its not the learning thats the problem. Its that it should be in religous or philosophy class. Its not science by deffenition. Science has certain things that it is impossible to explain and thats where these theorys come in. But when you talk about these things you cant dismiss the science you had to get to that idea in the first place.
@SayNoToTheism Explain to me this then. Evolutionists cannot prove evolution exists and is a valid fact. Evolutionists believe that life started from a small dot that exploded creating the Big Bang. But what created that dot, how did it come to be. This is a mystery, isn't Creationism also a mystery, who created God? He was always there, then like Creationism, Evolution has no proof to say that that dot came from something, if matter is neither created nor destroyed. By ur logic both are invalid
@SayNoToTheism and evolution is a fact, it has gone through the entire scientific process but is not accepted as one because of the controversy surrounding it. there is a vast amount of evidence supporting evolution, and almost none for creationalism. just because you have ben told something from birth doesn't make it true.
@SayNoToTheism The idea that the universe has a designer? Why is it ludicrous? Presuppose either the Big Bang or Evolutionary Theory, but begin with the possibility that it was all mapped out beforehand, and it actually makes more sense than ---> Time + Matter + Chance = A complex fine-tuned universe.
@vjohn82 I said, it is not ludicrous to think that an intelligent being planned the big bang or evolution. These are both theories with highly intelligent processes and effects.
@1234989ful There's nothing inherently "intelligent" about the big bang. Our perception makes this assertion vaguely meaningful. Neither is the universe "fine tuned". Life, if you didn't know it, is in a constant state of flux. Start with science rather than myth and you would never find room to postulate any intelligent design. That the infant ideas survive to this day is a shame but not a hurdle that is difficult to overcome.
@vjohn82 You don't think the earth, our bodies, sex, digestion, the sun, the temperature of the earth, our senses, are intelligent? I think it is amazing. And amazingly complex.
@1234989ful The earth is no more complex than any other planet. Our bodies are complex but all functionality derived from simple cell organisms. Digestion is an evolutionary problem. The sun will eventually expand and annihilate everything in the solar system. The temperature of the earth is not unique. Our senses are simply that, senses and again not unique. We can describe all of the above with science and logic and without invoking an Invisible Magic Sky Friend.
@vjohn82 The point isn't that the earth is unique (something I didn't say...) but that the entire universe is complex and intelligent. The very fact that we use science and logic to describe what we see is an attestation to its intelligence and intelligibility. I don't quite understand what you are trying to argue here...are you saying that the universe is random, nonsensical, and unintelligible? And what invisible magic sky friend have i invoked?
@1234989ful You invoked the supernatural when you said "it is not ludicrous to think that an intelligent being planned the big bang or evolution". Yes it is ludicrous actually and beyond contempt. You didn't say earth was unique, granted. But I believe you inferred it with your language. Is the earth unique? The universe is not intelligent. The earth is not intelligent.
@9xo3e That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. You clearly don't understand the meaning of the word "evidence". Evidence does not mean absolute proof. The collection of different pieces of evidence supports the theory of evolution. It's not 100%, but you can't always expect to have every piece of evidence.
You really are some kind of special idiot aren't you? You probably think the Sun revolves around the Earth and that the Earth is flat.
@Slipknot808 Dude, that's like me saying some evidence for crationism is that the bible says so. Gets us nowhere does it? Think before you speak, and no i do not think that, and ti answer your question i have 3 A*'s in Biology.
@9xo3e There is physical evidence of evolution. There is a fossil record that supports the theory of evolution. Citing actual evidence is not the same as citing a religious text.
FYI getting an A in Biology is irrelevant. I know people who've gotten straight A's and yet for some reason couldn't discuss the subjects intelligently in conversation. Just like a college degree doesn't make you smart. People memorize material for a test without really understanding it or they forget it.
@9xo3e Your definition of proof is ridiculous. The bible is a physical book, but the ideas presented within are have no corresponding physical proof to back up its claims. Evolution has physical evidence to back up it's claims IE fossils and living organisms.
You are a special kind of idiot. You say stupid shit. You are clearly deluded.
@9xo3e Because a religious text is not evidence. Unless you have physical evidence to back up your claims all you have is hearsay. If you actually had evidence I'd consider your argument. But you can't prove the Bible is right by saying "the bible is right because the bible says so." It's a circular argument.
There are many religious texts, most are mutually exclusive. What makes your religious text more valid than theirs?
@Slipknot808 In early times the "best" scientists thought the earth was flat. Is there not a single chance they could be wrong again?
Right back at you, what makes "your" views more valid then any other? Do you not belive the world is so amazing that it could not come about by chance ?
And anyway, i was mearly sugesting in the first place, why do you care what other people belive? You make it seem that if you belive in evolution you're inteligent, if not you're an idiot. Learn to get along.
@9xo3e You mean back in a time where the church would kill you if you contradicted biblical teaching?
I'm not saying that my view is more valid, what I am saying is that there is no evidence to support Biblical ideas. You shouldn't try to make faith, fact.
This is a video that is talking about creationism as science, it is not science. Until creationists can prove that there is a god in a lab creationism will never be science.
@ellimist6 Give me an explanation of how Life and the Universe came to be? If Evolution can truly explain how all things came to be. Explain where the first neutron or the first particle comes from. As I said it is just a theory an idea. nothing more nothing less. Creationism is a faithfilled theory, while Evolution is a scientific theory. Leave well enough alone, both are of their own kind, and each have a right to their own choice, based on faith or skepticism.
@Coshka77 eveolution is not the same as comsology evolution explains the diversity of life on earth comoslogy explains how the universe works
the diff between a faithbased theory and a scientific theory is that the scientific one has a lot more evidence to back it up and will actually make sense. the diff between science based and faith based is that science gives facts to give proof while faith says nething can happen and be real even if it goes against the laws of physics and nature
@ellimist6 Well then it would be up to those who choose to believe the theory which makes sense to them, whether driven by faith or by fact. Both should be respected, not because it's nice, but because everyone has a choice and this is the freedom of choice, free will this isn't communist propaganda. So Creationists will believe Creationism is valid, evolutionists believe evolution is valid. No one really has said that creationism is false, bc there is no evidence for it and none against it.
@Coshka77 if theres no fact to support something whats the point in accepting it?
if theres no evidence for creationism than pretty much it is false, yea ppl can believe its true but that doesnt mean it is. yes every1 has a choice to think what they see has true but wouldnt it be better to pick what is backed by than pick something that is just based on faith?
@ellimist6 going a tad bit off topic, but still near the point. Then by theory, homosexuality is wrong, it is a sickness. Why? Because evolution and natural selection provides the progression of the human and other races, for the better good of that race, right? Then how is homosexuality normal if it hinders the procreation process, thus damaging the progression of humanity. It would then be considered a deformity and those afflicted are mentally ill. Do you not agree? This is what science says.
@Coshka77 no where in sicence does say that homosexuality is a mental illness,unnatural or harmfull to humanity. it used to be thought that but if u look in other animals homosexual behaviours exist so it is natural for it to exist
@Coshka77 - Please give the class an example of anything that has ever been "created." You can't. All you can demonstrate is that already exisiting energy constantly changes. You can't demonstrate that anything has ever been created or destroyed, so "creationism" is not science. Science classes should teach what is observable, not teach kids to play "make believe." If any evidence existed for creationism then you wouldn't have to "believe."
@chulotc Listen buddy, I am actually against them teaching creationism in the classroom, do you know why? Because it is a faith-based assumption which belongs in religious institutions. It infringes on the Constitutional right of religion (for athiests), and since not everyone believes (in a god) there is no point in teaching it. However it should be briefly mentioned that it is a way of thinking for some people and that it should still be respected as an opinion, respect is the word of the day.
@Coshka77 - If you think obsolete mind control techniques left over from the bronze age are worth mentioning in a science class you might as well mention them in math class, gym, and then post billboards in the lunch room stating "FYI: some of your peers were brainwashed by their parents into believing in things for which no evidence exists. Please proceed with caution." I'm just saying, It's another attempt by the ruling classes to discourage children from developing critical thinking skills.
@chulotc You can say the same thing about Liberals in the University classroom settings. Professors preach their opinions about various topics from their opinionated point of view. Anyone with an opposing mentality is fearful to voice their thoughts. This is a form of mind control too. So is Communism, which spewed propaganda and exalted the Soviets to extent of hatred towards capitalists. Mind control is everywhere and not just for those conformists. It is unavoidable.
@Coshka77 - Also, I'm all about having respect for each individual's abillity to define their world view, but I will never respect belief systems that attempt to control people, especially ones like christianity which endorse slavery, genocide, incest, superstition, rape, murder, male-dominated hierarchies, capital punishment, and eternal torture. Anyone who would respect that kind of thing has no business in a 21st century cooperative society.
@chulotc You cannot say that Christianity endorses those "values". The genocides in the 20th century (Armenian and Jewish) were caused by evil people. One by Turks and the other by an idiot exploiting Christianity. You cannot say that a religion endorses bad things, you can say people use religion to get their agendas through. You can't say all Muslims are terrorists because Islam is terrorism and endorses it. Like science and religion, it is people who use it wrong that is what makes it bad.
@Coshka77 - Sorry, but it's not "people using religion" that is the problem, it's the fake religious male-dominated hierarchies that attempt to control people through socially coerced relgious values. Read the book of Numbers. Yahweh tells the hebrews to destroy the amalekites, midiantes, moabites, and canaanites, but says go ahead and keep the virgin girls (32,000 of them) :| . And also, what's the punishment for apostacy in islam?: Capital punishment. Tell that to a muslim kid.
@chulotc Except that in Arabic/Muslim countries the jurisdiction of the state is solely based upon the religious code. Since they have no separation of Church and State like us. Why do you think America has never had a problem with radical religious fanatics killing people in the name of their god, at least to widespread prevalence like Iraq or Afghanistan.
@Coshka77 - So you're saying that religions are only limited in their mind control power in states that have a secular constitution? I agree. That's why most of the founding fathers were deists, not theists, and saw the need to give people a chance at happiness. But if your religion relies on secular intervention then it's really not much of a beneficial institution. There are no benefits offered by religions that cannot be offered through secular means.
@chulotc of course this is your opinion, yet I believe that religion answers the most difficult philosophical questions like: Do you matter? What is the purpose of life? Some issues cannot be confronted by physical means, so religion is an option. And one thing, (going off topic, sorta) Religious wars are just another excuse for humans to fight, think about it, if we don't use religion as an excuse to have wars, we will blame it on something else. IT is just so conveniently placed. Just saying
@Coshka77 - You lost me at the part where "making things up" is the same thing as "answering questions." That's only true if you don't care if the answer is right or not. And I won't even touch your assertion that religions share no blame for human divisions and wars. That's patently absurd and demonstrably false. How old are you?
@chulotc I am 16 years of age, but before you assume that I am immature, stupid, or a complete waste of time to heed, as most adults do, I want to tell you that, religion sustains neutrality as an idea of its own. People who utilize it in the ways that progress their agendas, dependent upon their intent, that is what makes religion bad. Wars are caused by many different reasons, religion is one, but not solely, a reason for human aggressiveness. So please do not attest religion as a scapegoat.
@Coshka77 - That's an interesting assertion: "religion sustains neutrality as an idea of its own." That's demonstrably false, as well. According to Christians, those who don't pick their god's side will burn in hell forEVER. Muslims who cease to practice islam are prescribed the death penalty. Jews who don't practice Judaism are ostracised. Hindus who don't work toward liberation are reincarnated until they do. Maybe you can cite a major world religion that rewards neutrality.
@chulotc I myself am an Orthodox Christian. Many Christians believe that Judaism and Islam both are valid in that the Abrahamic rites pertain to both sects for they worship the same god. Personally I don't believe that. Today many Christians are brainwashed into listening what their stupid protestant preacher says instead of independently thinking on their own. Please don't let modern protestant sects imprint an image of Christianity, because they are simply insane. As is the WBC.
@Coshka77 - I think modern protestant preachers are mild in comparison with your god's own words in the bible. Have you taken the time to read it? Your god endorses slavery, genocide, rape, incest, murder, blood atonement, vicarious redemption, eternal torture, and tribalism. The god of the bible himself, not his followers, endorsed these specific things. Please explain in which context slavery is ok; or genocide; or any of the things I mentioned.
@Coshka77 - I also don't see how you are any less brainwashed than the "many christians" you talk about. What evidence can you provide that any of your assertions about reality are true? Can you provide any evidence that anything has ever been created? Can you provide any evidence that your god exists? Or that the men who wrote the books that are now called the bible were inspired by anything other than love of power? You are playing make believe. You're imaging these things.
@chulotc God is also merciful. Clearly our opinions are differed, and since you stand upon your beliefs so firmly, which I admire very much, I stand by mine. It isn't make believe, in my opinion, it is faith. Faith something that any true christian should have. Whether you choose to believe or not, that is your decision and I cannot sway you in any way, because there is no scientific evidence for God, that is true, yet in faith billions stand, you say blindly, I say faithfully. That is fact.
@Coshka77 - I actually have no beliefs at all. I don't see the value in them. Faith is simply believing in something you were taught that you can't verify for yourself. You can't verify that god is merciful, because you can't verify that a god exists. I'll go you one further: even if there was scientific evidence that your god did exist, that would only mean that you worship a celestial tyrant, one who chooses to create beings he knows will disobey him, does so anyway, and then tortures them.
@chulotc But he passes the gift of Free Will to the people, since by humanity's sin at Adam and Eve times, we took it upon ourselves the responsibility to either follow him or sin. God is merciful, because even if you sin, you could go to heaven. We don't know how God judges hence we cannot say that he is a torturer since he gave us the ability to chose what to do, right or wrong. If anything all bad things come from our own misdeeds, how can we blame a God who gave us the free will to do all?
@Coshka77 - According to your beliefs, your god has no free will. He supposedly knows the future. Before he ever created anything, he knew what he would create. He knew that he would create laws, and then create beings he knew in advance would disobey those laws. He also knew that he would construct a torture chamber (hell) and send most of his creations there. He has no free will. His course is set. Otherwise he wouldn't know the future, would he?
@Coshka77 - Also, no one is blaming your god for anything. There's no good reason to believe he exists. We're simply pointing out the flaws in your bronze superstitions. These are the types of things that palestinian alpha males were coming up with in order to control people. It just doesn't work that well anymore except on people who are born into religious traditions and never stop to either read the bible or think about their beliefs.
@Coshka77 Creationism is not a theory but a myth. You mistake for what a theory actually is. What you're thinking evolution is is a hypothesis which is simply an educated guess. A theory is something that has been tested and reviewed and examined over and over an over again against any evidance that might be able to push it aside. Creationism has nothing of the sort.
@FIGHTFANNERD3 Yes, dumbass. It is an experimented hypothesis which has been tested to a form in which it is a more probable solution than other tested or untested hypotheses. It is not a fact, but more probable solution for that time being, since science emerges more and more solutions counteracting to the former. However science has its limits, bounded to only naturalistic solutions, and cannot support NOR falsify supernatural occurrences, since it does not deal with it, thus leaving faith
@Coshka77 okay listen. You are confused. When something is said to be a scientific theory that means that we are lacking evidence to DISPROVE IT. We have disproved special creation again, and again, and again, and again.
@Coshka77 "evolution is a theory" u r right, but gravity is called the theory of gravity so go jump of a 10 story building and then tell me what happens
@Coshka77 A scientific theory is not the same thing as a theory in the traditional sense. It is not simply an uneducated guess. A scientific theory is something supported by all the evidence and contradicted by none. It is second only to a natural law. Make no mistake, while evolution has much evidence behind it, creationism in the typical sense has none. Creationism is not a scientific theory. It is a religious myth. I'm not telling you there is no God(s). Only that religions are all myths.
@bscutajar Don't worry, if you've noticed that comment was a year ago. Since then my thoughts have changed. I believe there is no God out of lack of any proof or resonance in my life. And about the reproduction, I'm gay so don't worry ;)
I don't see why some Christians are so opposed to the theory of evolution. I'm a Christian, and evolution makes perfect sense as an explanation to how species develop.
@SHP1993 It's because it indicates that life can occur naturally without the hand of an omniscient being and so undermines the foundations of religion, so for a Christian to accept it and still believe in God is kind of strange.
@SayNoToTheism Not necessarily. I was raised Catholic (no I'm not a pedophile like a few priests), but also to believe that the stories of the Bible are just that: fables, especially Genesis. Many people think in kind. Atheism and Evolutionism aren't mutually exclusive.
@SayNoToTheism Life occurring naturally without the hand of an omniscient (I suspect you meant omnipotent) being is abiogenesis and is a question regarding the origin of life. That is typically a different question than the one Evolution addresses.
We should only tolerate religious opinion to an extent. People should be free to believe whatever bullshit they want, but no way should it have any place in school curiculum. You cannot appease all these ignorant people by allowing every religion to have a piece of the education pie.
Lots of Planets out there ! Who Knows ?
RustArtRed 4 months ago
WE DIE, WERE WORM FOOD, SO PARTY HARD !
RustArtRed 4 months ago
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ALTHOUGH I'M A CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN (Baptist), I no longer believe that the Bible teaches eternal torment or suffering. The Bible teaches eternal punishment, but it's not eternal torment. In my popular Internet article, TRADITIONAL DOCTRINE OF HELL EVOLVED FROM GREEK ROOTS, I explain how and why teaching of eternal torment entered early into Christianity and how Scriptures have been misinterpreted and taken out of context to support that teaching. ~Babu G. Ranganathan (B.A. theology/biology)
Mogley52 6 months ago
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GOD, HEAVEN, AND SEX: Internet article examines the Biblical possibility of sex in heaven. Human sexuality isn't just for reproduction. There are reasons the Bible requires marriage for sex on earth, but those reasons won't exist in heaven. Scripture teaches, in heaven, we'll be like the angels only in one sense - no marriage, but we won't be like angels in every other way (i.e. Bible says we'll enjoy food and drink). Psalm 16:11 says there will be great spiritual joy and pleasures in heaven.
Mogley52 6 months ago
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SCIENCE SHOWS THAT THE UNIVERSE could not have sustained itself eternally because of entropy. Einstein confirmed that space, matter, and time had a beginning! That beginning had to be supernatural because natural laws have no ability to bring the universe into existence from nothing. The supernatural cannot be proved by science but science points to a supernatural intelligence for the origin and order of the universe ~ HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM (Article)
Mogley52 6 months ago
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NATURAL LIMITS TO EVOLUTION: Only evolution within "kinds" is genetically possible (i.e. varieties of dogs, cats, etc.), but not evolution across "kinds" (i.e. from worm to human). How were species living, reproducing if their reproductive system, vital structures, and organs hadn't evolved yet? Read my Pravda Internet article: WAR AMONG EVOLUTIONISTS! I discuss: Punctuated Equilibrium, "Junk DNA," genetics, mutations, natural selection, fossils, genetic/biological similarities between species.
Mogley52 6 months ago
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DAWKINS, HITCHENS, AND HAWKING REFUSE TO DEBATE with creationists who are SCIENTISTS, such as the scientists at The Institute for Creation Research. Dawkins and his friends only debate non-scientist creationists. Read my popular Internet articles: ARE FOSSILS REALLY MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD? HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM, ANY LIFE ON MARS CAME FROM EARTH, WAR AMONG EVOLUTIONISTS! MISSING LINKS THAT NEVER WERE!
Mogley52 6 months ago
DO EYES CARRY SCARS OF EVOLUTION? Read this fantastic Internet article by biologist and creationist Brian Thomas. Thomas refutes every argument for a "flawed" design for the eye, and explains how and why the so-called flaw is actually the best thing for the eye. Read the article! It's amazing what facts evolutionists will ignore. Numerous times evolutionists have been proven wrong about their interpretation of a structure as being flawed in design or useless.
Mogley52 6 months ago
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BLIND WATCHMAKER NO ARGUMENT. Natural selection is no "blind watchmaker" because it can only "select" from traits having survival value. It doesn't produce those traits. It only operates once there is life and reproduction, not before, so it couldn't be involved in life's origins. A partially-evolved cell (an oxymoron) would quickly disintegrate. It couldn't wait ("survive") millions of years for chance to complete it and then make it living! Read: HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM
Mogley52 6 months ago
Creationism in the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally. It's poetic in nature.
arjrpz 6 months ago
@arjrpz Then is the rest of the bible also "poetic"? If so, why believe it all as though it were fact? Why dedicate your life to this specific "poem"?
Lunarvx22 5 months ago
@Lunarvx22 Fear of death. That's what keeps religion alive.
FlyingPinkUnicorn 5 months ago
@BitterBurst I'd like to know too.. I hear that music everywhere, it's hilarious. Love to know what it's called.
Lunarvx22 7 months ago
The biggest problem in creationism is God. How do you define how He creates? The Bible really skips that whole topic. It doesn't really say how He does what He Does. It's just so stupid a argument to make this 'Science'. People who take things too literally just suck. They have no developed sense of Irony and can see no discernible grey area in life. I.E. they are dumb. They enforce laws to make children just as dumb as they are.
MrTomohawk1 7 months ago
ok, peopla need to stop calling it a theory, science jargon is different from our everyday jargon, evolution is not a theory in our context, evolution is fact, tested and proven fact, deal with it
MrTeddy236 10 months ago
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Penn and Teller i thought you were better than this? theyre not being taught that the earth WAS created by a higher being, theyre being taught that some believe that and to be tolerant? whats wrong with that?
Jwalton1194 10 months ago
@Jwalton1194 You're missing the point, they're presenting to completely unequal viewpoints as being both equally valid. Would you be for History classes teaching that some people believe the Earth is flat and some believe it is round but it's all just opinion? No, they only teach what is factual and what is based in reality, fairy tales an nonsense has no place in Science class, it's fine to teach that other people have different views but that has no place in science classrooms.
SayNoToTheism 10 months ago 10
@SayNoToTheism The earth is proven to be round. How it was created is proven neither way... In reality, being created by a higher being, and matter just being here forever in chaos are equally insane in my mind. No human can completely wrap their mind around either, so why not be tolerant of those who believe a different creation? If you only teach things that are PROVEN, then nothing about the earths beginnings would ever be taught.
Jwalton1194 10 months ago
@Jwalton1194 That's what I'm saying, I don't mind those religions or the people who follow them, I just don't want their specific beliefs presented to school students as fact, anyone can believe what they want but education should be unbiased and not controlled by one particular group of people.
SayNoToTheism 10 months ago 4
@SayNoToTheism I respect what you just said, but they stated it wasn't being presented as fact, the key part of this in my opinion is at :39.... They arent cramming it down these kids throats, they're saying no one knows for sure and here are some theories.
Jwalton1194 10 months ago
@Jwalton1194
"theories."
"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world." (cont...)
FSEffect 10 months ago
@Jwalton1194
(...cont) "The theory of biological evolution is more than "just a theory." It is as factual an explanation of the universe as the atomic theory of matter or the germ theory of disease. Our understanding of gravity is still a work in progress. But the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is an accepted fact"
Creationism (including ID) is NOT a scientific theory and to present it as equiviliant to evolution is disingenuous and dishonest.
FSEffect 10 months ago
@FSEffect Why do creationism and evolution have to be one or the other? I agree with evolution, but that doesn't answer where matter as we know it started (IE if it was created by a higher being or something along the lines of the big bang). Creationism as a theory does not have to be how the bible puts it. The big bang is not a scientific theory either, in my opinion its just as far fetched as creationism.
Jwalton1194 10 months ago
@Jwalton1194
"Why do creationism and evolution have to be one or the other?"
In science, it is, because creationism is not science. It is not a scientific theory, there are no observable facts, testable hypothesis, and it invokes the supernatural.
"but that doesn't answer where matter..."
Why would it? Evolution does not address where matter came from because it does not aim to address how the unvierse started.
FSEffect 10 months ago
@Jwalton1194
"in my opinion"
Your opinion does not matter in science. The big bang theory is science because it matches the criteria for a scientific theory. Creationism does not, readily admitted in court by the proponents.
FSEffect 10 months ago
@FSEffect The world is flat... What i just said is a scientific theory. It's falsifiable, i can make observations and hypotheses about it. It has been proven false of course. The universe as we know it was created by some higher being. What i just said is falsifiable, i can make observations and hypotheses about it, it is literally just as plausible as "matter has always existed, and the universe as we know it came from the big bang." I never said i belied in creationism, I believe in tolerance
Jwalton1194 10 months ago
@Jwalton1194
"The world is flat... What i just said is a scientific theory. It's falsifiable"
No what you said is a hypothesis. I refer to the previous post on what a theory is.
"The universe as we know it was created by some higher being. What i just said is falsifiable"
Incorrect as a supernatural agent can create anything, anyway he wants, whenever he wants, so where is the falsifiability there?
"I believe in tolerance"
Science isn't about tolerance, it's about percievable reality.
FSEffect 10 months ago
@FSEffect maybe if you were taught tolerance you wouldn't be wasting your time on starting flame wars on youtube... enjoy hating people for their beliefs, im done here
Jwalton1194 9 months ago
@Jwalton1194
If my way of stating things to you matter-of-factly like this is considered flaming, then you need to grow a thicker skin. Simply disagreeing with you is flaming, if you have no way of countering my points then by all means leave.
FSEffect 9 months ago
@Jwalton1194 Lol you just pwned yourself in that first sentence: "The Earth is proven to be round" guess what? Evolution is proven as well.
halflifefan84 9 months ago
@halflifefan84 and if you read my comments you would know i agree completely with evolution and the earth in science... what i dont agree with are the origins of the universe as a whole, none of which is proven either side, and wont be for quite some time
Jwalton1194 9 months ago
@Jwalton1194 Umm, the big bang, at its most bland meaning, has been proven...
halflifefan84 9 months ago
@halflifefan84 "at its most bland meaning", you mean the fact that matter was created at some point? wow real convincing argument... so is creationism at its blandist meaning.... at some point, something caused matter to be created...
Jwalton1194 9 months ago
@Jwalton1194 Actually your completely wrong. You only get taught things that HAVE been proven in science class.
FutureComputing 7 months ago
@FutureComputing I don't see why everyone is so against tolerance... It's just sad how big of bigots a lot of people are
Jwalton1194 7 months ago
@Jwalton1194 If you want to believe in creationism, fine! Go ahead, it's not a bother to me. What is a bother to me, is when people start trying to teach something that ISN'T science in a science class. Allowing creationism to be taught in science class goes way above and beyond the borders of tolerance.
FutureComputing 7 months ago
@FutureComputing They're not teaching it as science.... they are "encouraging students to be respectful and tolerant of those who may have different beliefs" look at all the ignorance revolving around atheists and non-atheists... and no i don't believe in creationism.
Jwalton1194 7 months ago
@Jwalton1194 The campaign shown here is an attempt to get creationism taught in science classes, yes?Again, "Allowing creationism to be taught in science class goes way above and beyond the borders of tolerance". Over here in the UK we have something called religious education. That's where we're taught about different religions and tolerance. Not science classes. You, I'm afraid seem to be the ignorant one.
FutureComputing 7 months ago
@FutureComputing To your first point no... and once again I quote "Our intention is to promote a broad based curriculum which will ACKNOWLEDGE that there are differences in opinion." In history class we learned that some people say the holocaust never happened... I wasn't brainwashed into thinking it wasn't real, i just learned there were differing opinions. But this case is much more about tolerating the other side, and tolerance is just about the opposite of ignorance.
Jwalton1194 7 months ago
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@Jwalton1194 Yes, they want to "promote a broad based curriculum which will ACKNOWLEDGE that there are differences in opinion". That means whilst your learning about the big bang theory or evolution, creationism will be presented as an alternative in science class. Creationism is a religious belief. It should NOT be acknowledged in science classes AT ALL because it is NOT science.
FutureComputing 7 months ago
@Jwalton1194 this isn't an issue about tolerating the other side, it's about a deep perversion of science. Creationism and Intelligent Design are NOT science, they do not belong in a SCIENCE class room. They belong either in religious education classes or the church. It's been found by the US Supreme Court that Creationism and Intelligent Design are not science for a very good reason, it isn't and scientists have demonstrated multiple times that ID and Creationism are not SCIENCE.
DoomsdayR3sistance 7 months ago
so no, what you are saying doesn't matter. Here P&T are talking about these movements trying to teach in the SCIENCE class room. Science does not discern itself with opinions or beliefs, science only cares about what is provable and both Creationism and ID are in fact disproven by science, so they have not point in a SCIENCE class room. Do you get it yet? The issue here is an attempt to pervert science, science doesn't care about opinions/beliefs, Religious Education has no place in science.
DoomsdayR3sistance 7 months ago
@Jwalton1194 It isn`t tolerance when they try to teach it in the Science curriculum.... I concur with your view on tolerance, though I think that claiming "a broadbased SCIENCE curriculum which will acknowledge that there are differences of opinion on etc" would amount to the claim that in the name of tolerance we need to teach that someone thinks that the earth is flat(Flatearthsociety) and that it is a fact based probality.
soldat41ghr 7 months ago
@soldat41ghr the only problem is that the world has been proven to be round, not flat.... the origins of the universe, whether big bang or created by a higher being, has not been proven either way... I'm not saying they should teach the bible here.
Jwalton1194 7 months ago
@Jwalton1194 actually scientists have a very good picture of how Earth was created, there are issues around the moon but Earth itself is fairly straight forward. After all, there are planet creating processes going on around the universe but even that isn't actually needed. The Earth is a creation of collisions.
That said the issue isn't about what's proven, it's trying to call creationism science, which it isn't. It's a religious belief, it belongs in the religious education/church classes.
DoomsdayR3sistance 7 months ago
God doesnt exist! But if u wanna believe in an invisible old man in the sky, go ahead.
Sp1riTCHL 10 months ago
I swear that almost all creationists must have been absent from 8th grade science class on the day the teacher taught the difference between "hypothesis" and "theory".
And the argument of "Well you weren't there, so there's no way to really know what happened"? I sure hope these people are never picked for jury duty.
geezerbill 1 year ago
How can people even believe in "creationism?" You have to be a deluded, brain-washed fool to actually think that it is a credible and factual idea.
CRISNCHIPS12398 1 year ago
Coshka77 your argument is flawed Evolution is not a theory its fact you tit Natural selection is a theory
DemonsLikeZoos 1 year ago
If I actually lived in the United States and was forced to learn the "science" of Creationism, I would just not go to class. I despise religious people that try to state that the bible is science. What a joke.
CRISNCHIPS12398 1 year ago
Goshka77: How can you be so ignorant? To claim, "Evolution is a Theory" is an admission of your failure to be educated. Evolution is a Science Fact! Species evolved either by cross breeding or by adaptation to their different environments. DNA testing PROVES this! Nothing aggravates me more than some uneducated person spouting off about a subject in which they know NOTHING about! Go back to school.
kevin99507 1 year ago
Its not the learning thats the problem. Its that it should be in religous or philosophy class. Its not science by deffenition. Science has certain things that it is impossible to explain and thats where these theorys come in. But when you talk about these things you cant dismiss the science you had to get to that idea in the first place.
borednerd74 1 year ago
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Coshka77 1 year ago
@Coshka77 Except that creationism is one of the most ludicrous view points in the history of the human race and has NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT.
SayNoToTheism 1 year ago 34
@SayNoToTheism Explain to me this then. Evolutionists cannot prove evolution exists and is a valid fact. Evolutionists believe that life started from a small dot that exploded creating the Big Bang. But what created that dot, how did it come to be. This is a mystery, isn't Creationism also a mystery, who created God? He was always there, then like Creationism, Evolution has no proof to say that that dot came from something, if matter is neither created nor destroyed. By ur logic both are invalid
Coshka77 1 year ago
@SayNoToTheism That is why it should not be taught as a science. Its a philosophy or religious study.
borednerd74 1 year ago
@SayNoToTheism and evolution is a fact, it has gone through the entire scientific process but is not accepted as one because of the controversy surrounding it. there is a vast amount of evidence supporting evolution, and almost none for creationalism. just because you have ben told something from birth doesn't make it true.
Benjaaani 1 year ago
@SayNoToTheism The idea that the universe has a designer? Why is it ludicrous? Presuppose either the Big Bang or Evolutionary Theory, but begin with the possibility that it was all mapped out beforehand, and it actually makes more sense than ---> Time + Matter + Chance = A complex fine-tuned universe.
1234989ful 11 months ago
@1234989ful So how would the plan of the creator be mapped out? Now you're in the realms of nonsense.
vjohn82 11 months ago
@vjohn82 I said, it is not ludicrous to think that an intelligent being planned the big bang or evolution. These are both theories with highly intelligent processes and effects.
1234989ful 11 months ago
@1234989ful There's nothing inherently "intelligent" about the big bang. Our perception makes this assertion vaguely meaningful. Neither is the universe "fine tuned". Life, if you didn't know it, is in a constant state of flux. Start with science rather than myth and you would never find room to postulate any intelligent design. That the infant ideas survive to this day is a shame but not a hurdle that is difficult to overcome.
vjohn82 11 months ago
@vjohn82 You don't think the earth, our bodies, sex, digestion, the sun, the temperature of the earth, our senses, are intelligent? I think it is amazing. And amazingly complex.
1234989ful 11 months ago
@1234989ful The earth is no more complex than any other planet. Our bodies are complex but all functionality derived from simple cell organisms. Digestion is an evolutionary problem. The sun will eventually expand and annihilate everything in the solar system. The temperature of the earth is not unique. Our senses are simply that, senses and again not unique. We can describe all of the above with science and logic and without invoking an Invisible Magic Sky Friend.
vjohn82 11 months ago
@vjohn82 The point isn't that the earth is unique (something I didn't say...) but that the entire universe is complex and intelligent. The very fact that we use science and logic to describe what we see is an attestation to its intelligence and intelligibility. I don't quite understand what you are trying to argue here...are you saying that the universe is random, nonsensical, and unintelligible? And what invisible magic sky friend have i invoked?
1234989ful 11 months ago
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@1234989ful You invoked the supernatural when you said "it is not ludicrous to think that an intelligent being planned the big bang or evolution". Yes it is ludicrous actually and beyond contempt. You didn't say earth was unique, granted. But I believe you inferred it with your language. Is the earth unique? The universe is not intelligent. The earth is not intelligent.
vjohn82 11 months ago
@SayNoToTheism There is no evidence for evolution either idiot. There is not 1 complete fossil record. Gf irl s0n.
9xo3e 10 months ago
@9xo3e That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. You clearly don't understand the meaning of the word "evidence". Evidence does not mean absolute proof. The collection of different pieces of evidence supports the theory of evolution. It's not 100%, but you can't always expect to have every piece of evidence.
You really are some kind of special idiot aren't you? You probably think the Sun revolves around the Earth and that the Earth is flat.
Slipknot808 10 months ago
@Slipknot808 Dude, that's like me saying some evidence for crationism is that the bible says so. Gets us nowhere does it? Think before you speak, and no i do not think that, and ti answer your question i have 3 A*'s in Biology.
9xo3e 10 months ago
@9xo3e There is physical evidence of evolution. There is a fossil record that supports the theory of evolution. Citing actual evidence is not the same as citing a religious text.
FYI getting an A in Biology is irrelevant. I know people who've gotten straight A's and yet for some reason couldn't discuss the subjects intelligently in conversation. Just like a college degree doesn't make you smart. People memorize material for a test without really understanding it or they forget it.
Slipknot808 10 months ago
@Slipknot808 The bible is phsical you idiot. And you said i was 'special idiot' , proved wrong once again. 2-0 to me, cheers.
9xo3e 10 months ago
@9xo3e Your definition of proof is ridiculous. The bible is a physical book, but the ideas presented within are have no corresponding physical proof to back up its claims. Evolution has physical evidence to back up it's claims IE fossils and living organisms.
You are a special kind of idiot. You say stupid shit. You are clearly deluded.
Slipknot808 10 months ago
@Slipknot808 Yes of cause when it's my evidence y'knowm it's completely wrong. But if it's any evidence of yours, ypu 100% right it is !
9xo3e 10 months ago
@9xo3e Because a religious text is not evidence. Unless you have physical evidence to back up your claims all you have is hearsay. If you actually had evidence I'd consider your argument. But you can't prove the Bible is right by saying "the bible is right because the bible says so." It's a circular argument.
There are many religious texts, most are mutually exclusive. What makes your religious text more valid than theirs?
Slipknot808 10 months ago
@Slipknot808 In early times the "best" scientists thought the earth was flat. Is there not a single chance they could be wrong again?
Right back at you, what makes "your" views more valid then any other? Do you not belive the world is so amazing that it could not come about by chance ?
And anyway, i was mearly sugesting in the first place, why do you care what other people belive? You make it seem that if you belive in evolution you're inteligent, if not you're an idiot. Learn to get along.
9xo3e 10 months ago
@9xo3e You mean back in a time where the church would kill you if you contradicted biblical teaching?
I'm not saying that my view is more valid, what I am saying is that there is no evidence to support Biblical ideas. You shouldn't try to make faith, fact.
This is a video that is talking about creationism as science, it is not science. Until creationists can prove that there is a god in a lab creationism will never be science.
Religion and science are not mutually exclusive.
Slipknot808 10 months ago
@Coshka77 chreationism will be repsected if your able to give proof of it, otherwise y believe it?
ellimist6 1 year ago
@ellimist6 Give me an explanation of how Life and the Universe came to be? If Evolution can truly explain how all things came to be. Explain where the first neutron or the first particle comes from. As I said it is just a theory an idea. nothing more nothing less. Creationism is a faithfilled theory, while Evolution is a scientific theory. Leave well enough alone, both are of their own kind, and each have a right to their own choice, based on faith or skepticism.
Coshka77 1 year ago
@Coshka77 eveolution is not the same as comsology evolution explains the diversity of life on earth comoslogy explains how the universe works
the diff between a faithbased theory and a scientific theory is that the scientific one has a lot more evidence to back it up and will actually make sense. the diff between science based and faith based is that science gives facts to give proof while faith says nething can happen and be real even if it goes against the laws of physics and nature
ellimist6 1 year ago
@ellimist6 Well then it would be up to those who choose to believe the theory which makes sense to them, whether driven by faith or by fact. Both should be respected, not because it's nice, but because everyone has a choice and this is the freedom of choice, free will this isn't communist propaganda. So Creationists will believe Creationism is valid, evolutionists believe evolution is valid. No one really has said that creationism is false, bc there is no evidence for it and none against it.
Coshka77 1 year ago
@Coshka77 if theres no fact to support something whats the point in accepting it?
if theres no evidence for creationism than pretty much it is false, yea ppl can believe its true but that doesnt mean it is. yes every1 has a choice to think what they see has true but wouldnt it be better to pick what is backed by than pick something that is just based on faith?
ellimist6 1 year ago
@ellimist6 going a tad bit off topic, but still near the point. Then by theory, homosexuality is wrong, it is a sickness. Why? Because evolution and natural selection provides the progression of the human and other races, for the better good of that race, right? Then how is homosexuality normal if it hinders the procreation process, thus damaging the progression of humanity. It would then be considered a deformity and those afflicted are mentally ill. Do you not agree? This is what science says.
Coshka77 1 year ago
@Coshka77 no where in sicence does say that homosexuality is a mental illness,unnatural or harmfull to humanity. it used to be thought that but if u look in other animals homosexual behaviours exist so it is natural for it to exist
ellimist6 1 year ago
@Coshka77 - Please give the class an example of anything that has ever been "created." You can't. All you can demonstrate is that already exisiting energy constantly changes. You can't demonstrate that anything has ever been created or destroyed, so "creationism" is not science. Science classes should teach what is observable, not teach kids to play "make believe." If any evidence existed for creationism then you wouldn't have to "believe."
chulotc 1 year ago
@chulotc Listen buddy, I am actually against them teaching creationism in the classroom, do you know why? Because it is a faith-based assumption which belongs in religious institutions. It infringes on the Constitutional right of religion (for athiests), and since not everyone believes (in a god) there is no point in teaching it. However it should be briefly mentioned that it is a way of thinking for some people and that it should still be respected as an opinion, respect is the word of the day.
Coshka77 1 year ago
@Coshka77 - If you think obsolete mind control techniques left over from the bronze age are worth mentioning in a science class you might as well mention them in math class, gym, and then post billboards in the lunch room stating "FYI: some of your peers were brainwashed by their parents into believing in things for which no evidence exists. Please proceed with caution." I'm just saying, It's another attempt by the ruling classes to discourage children from developing critical thinking skills.
chulotc 1 year ago
@chulotc You can say the same thing about Liberals in the University classroom settings. Professors preach their opinions about various topics from their opinionated point of view. Anyone with an opposing mentality is fearful to voice their thoughts. This is a form of mind control too. So is Communism, which spewed propaganda and exalted the Soviets to extent of hatred towards capitalists. Mind control is everywhere and not just for those conformists. It is unavoidable.
Coshka77 1 year ago
@Coshka77 - Also, I'm all about having respect for each individual's abillity to define their world view, but I will never respect belief systems that attempt to control people, especially ones like christianity which endorse slavery, genocide, incest, superstition, rape, murder, male-dominated hierarchies, capital punishment, and eternal torture. Anyone who would respect that kind of thing has no business in a 21st century cooperative society.
chulotc 1 year ago
@chulotc You cannot say that Christianity endorses those "values". The genocides in the 20th century (Armenian and Jewish) were caused by evil people. One by Turks and the other by an idiot exploiting Christianity. You cannot say that a religion endorses bad things, you can say people use religion to get their agendas through. You can't say all Muslims are terrorists because Islam is terrorism and endorses it. Like science and religion, it is people who use it wrong that is what makes it bad.
Coshka77 1 year ago
@Coshka77 - Sorry, but it's not "people using religion" that is the problem, it's the fake religious male-dominated hierarchies that attempt to control people through socially coerced relgious values. Read the book of Numbers. Yahweh tells the hebrews to destroy the amalekites, midiantes, moabites, and canaanites, but says go ahead and keep the virgin girls (32,000 of them) :| . And also, what's the punishment for apostacy in islam?: Capital punishment. Tell that to a muslim kid.
chulotc 1 year ago
@chulotc Except that in Arabic/Muslim countries the jurisdiction of the state is solely based upon the religious code. Since they have no separation of Church and State like us. Why do you think America has never had a problem with radical religious fanatics killing people in the name of their god, at least to widespread prevalence like Iraq or Afghanistan.
Coshka77 1 year ago
@Coshka77 - So you're saying that religions are only limited in their mind control power in states that have a secular constitution? I agree. That's why most of the founding fathers were deists, not theists, and saw the need to give people a chance at happiness. But if your religion relies on secular intervention then it's really not much of a beneficial institution. There are no benefits offered by religions that cannot be offered through secular means.
chulotc 1 year ago
@chulotc of course this is your opinion, yet I believe that religion answers the most difficult philosophical questions like: Do you matter? What is the purpose of life? Some issues cannot be confronted by physical means, so religion is an option. And one thing, (going off topic, sorta) Religious wars are just another excuse for humans to fight, think about it, if we don't use religion as an excuse to have wars, we will blame it on something else. IT is just so conveniently placed. Just saying
Coshka77 1 year ago
@Coshka77 - You lost me at the part where "making things up" is the same thing as "answering questions." That's only true if you don't care if the answer is right or not. And I won't even touch your assertion that religions share no blame for human divisions and wars. That's patently absurd and demonstrably false. How old are you?
chulotc 1 year ago
@chulotc I am 16 years of age, but before you assume that I am immature, stupid, or a complete waste of time to heed, as most adults do, I want to tell you that, religion sustains neutrality as an idea of its own. People who utilize it in the ways that progress their agendas, dependent upon their intent, that is what makes religion bad. Wars are caused by many different reasons, religion is one, but not solely, a reason for human aggressiveness. So please do not attest religion as a scapegoat.
Coshka77 1 year ago
@Coshka77 - That's an interesting assertion: "religion sustains neutrality as an idea of its own." That's demonstrably false, as well. According to Christians, those who don't pick their god's side will burn in hell forEVER. Muslims who cease to practice islam are prescribed the death penalty. Jews who don't practice Judaism are ostracised. Hindus who don't work toward liberation are reincarnated until they do. Maybe you can cite a major world religion that rewards neutrality.
chulotc 1 year ago
@Coshka77 - Also, so that we can have a meaningful conversation, what religion do you practice yourself? Thanks.
chulotc 1 year ago
@chulotc I myself am an Orthodox Christian. Many Christians believe that Judaism and Islam both are valid in that the Abrahamic rites pertain to both sects for they worship the same god. Personally I don't believe that. Today many Christians are brainwashed into listening what their stupid protestant preacher says instead of independently thinking on their own. Please don't let modern protestant sects imprint an image of Christianity, because they are simply insane. As is the WBC.
Coshka77 1 year ago
@Coshka77 - I think modern protestant preachers are mild in comparison with your god's own words in the bible. Have you taken the time to read it? Your god endorses slavery, genocide, rape, incest, murder, blood atonement, vicarious redemption, eternal torture, and tribalism. The god of the bible himself, not his followers, endorsed these specific things. Please explain in which context slavery is ok; or genocide; or any of the things I mentioned.
chulotc 1 year ago
@Coshka77 - I also don't see how you are any less brainwashed than the "many christians" you talk about. What evidence can you provide that any of your assertions about reality are true? Can you provide any evidence that anything has ever been created? Can you provide any evidence that your god exists? Or that the men who wrote the books that are now called the bible were inspired by anything other than love of power? You are playing make believe. You're imaging these things.
chulotc 1 year ago
@chulotc God is also merciful. Clearly our opinions are differed, and since you stand upon your beliefs so firmly, which I admire very much, I stand by mine. It isn't make believe, in my opinion, it is faith. Faith something that any true christian should have. Whether you choose to believe or not, that is your decision and I cannot sway you in any way, because there is no scientific evidence for God, that is true, yet in faith billions stand, you say blindly, I say faithfully. That is fact.
Coshka77 1 year ago
@Coshka77 - I actually have no beliefs at all. I don't see the value in them. Faith is simply believing in something you were taught that you can't verify for yourself. You can't verify that god is merciful, because you can't verify that a god exists. I'll go you one further: even if there was scientific evidence that your god did exist, that would only mean that you worship a celestial tyrant, one who chooses to create beings he knows will disobey him, does so anyway, and then tortures them.
chulotc 1 year ago
@chulotc But he passes the gift of Free Will to the people, since by humanity's sin at Adam and Eve times, we took it upon ourselves the responsibility to either follow him or sin. God is merciful, because even if you sin, you could go to heaven. We don't know how God judges hence we cannot say that he is a torturer since he gave us the ability to chose what to do, right or wrong. If anything all bad things come from our own misdeeds, how can we blame a God who gave us the free will to do all?
Coshka77 1 year ago
@Coshka77 - According to your beliefs, your god has no free will. He supposedly knows the future. Before he ever created anything, he knew what he would create. He knew that he would create laws, and then create beings he knew in advance would disobey those laws. He also knew that he would construct a torture chamber (hell) and send most of his creations there. He has no free will. His course is set. Otherwise he wouldn't know the future, would he?
chulotc 1 year ago
@Coshka77 - Also, no one is blaming your god for anything. There's no good reason to believe he exists. We're simply pointing out the flaws in your bronze superstitions. These are the types of things that palestinian alpha males were coming up with in order to control people. It just doesn't work that well anymore except on people who are born into religious traditions and never stop to either read the bible or think about their beliefs.
chulotc 1 year ago
@Coshka77 you are fucking crazy. go kill yourself ! pls !
longulbogdan 1 year ago
@Coshka77 Creationism is not a theory but a myth. You mistake for what a theory actually is. What you're thinking evolution is is a hypothesis which is simply an educated guess. A theory is something that has been tested and reviewed and examined over and over an over again against any evidance that might be able to push it aside. Creationism has nothing of the sort.
asdfbobbyasdf 1 year ago
@Coshka77 do you know what a scientific theory is dumbass
FIGHTFANNERD3 1 year ago
@FIGHTFANNERD3 Yes, dumbass. It is an experimented hypothesis which has been tested to a form in which it is a more probable solution than other tested or untested hypotheses. It is not a fact, but more probable solution for that time being, since science emerges more and more solutions counteracting to the former. However science has its limits, bounded to only naturalistic solutions, and cannot support NOR falsify supernatural occurrences, since it does not deal with it, thus leaving faith
Coshka77 1 year ago
@Coshka77 okay listen. You are confused. When something is said to be a scientific theory that means that we are lacking evidence to DISPROVE IT. We have disproved special creation again, and again, and again, and again.
TheHCGdietGIRL 1 year ago
@Coshka77 "evolution is a theory" u r right, but gravity is called the theory of gravity so go jump of a 10 story building and then tell me what happens
D4rkiLLLLusi0n 1 year ago
@Coshka77
Creationism isn't a theory. It is a guess.
verzen 1 year ago
@Coshka77 A scientific theory is not the same thing as a theory in the traditional sense. It is not simply an uneducated guess. A scientific theory is something supported by all the evidence and contradicted by none. It is second only to a natural law. Make no mistake, while evolution has much evidence behind it, creationism in the typical sense has none. Creationism is not a scientific theory. It is a religious myth. I'm not telling you there is no God(s). Only that religions are all myths.
incomprehensible14 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Evolution is a Theory just like Creationism is a Theory"
No it's not. Evolution is a SCIENTIFIC theory, just like cells, atoms, gravity, and germs are SCIENTIFIC theories.
A SCIENTIFIC theory is different from everyday use of the word "theory"
flylike1 1 year ago
"Since no one was there no one can concretely say which is correct."
Biblical creationism can be flat out disproven by the law of superposition. Not every animal lived at the same time, this is a scientific fact.
Biological Evolution has hundreds of evidences from dozens of fields, each arrived at independently and all of which supports the same conclusion.
Just because science isn't 100% certain doesn't mean whatever idea with no evidence (creationism) is equally valid.
flylike1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Coshka77 Evolution has been proven buddy.
bigtaterman 10 months ago
@Coshka77 oh god i hope you dont reproduce
bscutajar 7 months ago
@bscutajar Don't worry, if you've noticed that comment was a year ago. Since then my thoughts have changed. I believe there is no God out of lack of any proof or resonance in my life. And about the reproduction, I'm gay so don't worry ;)
Coshka77 7 months ago
I have nothing to add to that. I completely agree with these guys.
LookieHippie 1 year ago
Allow Pastafarianism to be taught alongside both and we sure as hell will get this straightened out.
SevenRiderAirForce 1 year ago
I don't see why some Christians are so opposed to the theory of evolution. I'm a Christian, and evolution makes perfect sense as an explanation to how species develop.
SHP1993 1 year ago 8
@SHP1993 It's because it indicates that life can occur naturally without the hand of an omniscient being and so undermines the foundations of religion, so for a Christian to accept it and still believe in God is kind of strange.
SayNoToTheism 1 year ago 18
@SayNoToTheism Not really, the Vatican even thinks evolution doesn't contradict the Bible.
FatherTime89 1 year ago
@SayNoToTheism Not necessarily. I was raised Catholic (no I'm not a pedophile like a few priests), but also to believe that the stories of the Bible are just that: fables, especially Genesis. Many people think in kind. Atheism and Evolutionism aren't mutually exclusive.
SuaveTito 1 year ago
@SayNoToTheism Life occurring naturally without the hand of an omniscient (I suspect you meant omnipotent) being is abiogenesis and is a question regarding the origin of life. That is typically a different question than the one Evolution addresses.
theobromacacaoify 10 months ago
@SHP1993 you have no way of being a cristian if you acknowledge that the evidences for evolution are many and still coming !
longulbogdan 1 year ago
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AshleeBrooke87 1 year ago
We should only tolerate religious opinion to an extent. People should be free to believe whatever bullshit they want, but no way should it have any place in school curiculum. You cannot appease all these ignorant people by allowing every religion to have a piece of the education pie.
PiracyPolice 1 year ago
Creationism alongside Science is downright
criminal, not to mention stupid.
Great video!
paulusmagirl 2 years ago 25
@paulusmagirl lol.. well they have to do something
djameselliott666 1 year ago
@paulusmagirl science is downright stupid? BULLSHIT!
crazygeek777 1 year ago
I hate the bullshit, but I love Bullshit!
riseofatheism 2 years ago 17
Well said.
SayNoToTheism 2 years ago
@riseofatheism i think you're just talking shit! j/k
SuperDaLINKwent 2 years ago
Awesome!
ScienceRulesWithFact 2 years ago 2