I disassociated back in 2008. You might already know that, though. But unless you were a JW, you likely don't know just how deep the rabbit hole goes. Even as far up as the circuit overseers, to the magazine writers, right into the governing body itself,, many, if not most of these people are certain the organization is being guided by God. In other words, nobody is really driving the boat. They think the boat is driving itself. I'm serious. One day, they're going to crash. God or no God
@DarkAeonX Thank you for the kind words, lets pray that many blinded ones come to see that their organization is corrupted by money, greed, and power......THEN perhaps they will consdier leaving the false prophet to come to the waiting arms of the Savior!
My response does relate to your post, as the Father is the only true God. Jesus nor the Holy Spirit are gods, they are very God (by nature) from the Father.
ich......ARE YOU KIDDING ME?......Ich no one in the bible teaches the trinity....Jesus never claimed to be God Almighty....and none of the Prophets or Moses..or Jesus worshipped a triune God......
I am not the one that refuses to believe my friend.
@JAKEV25 Since the doctrine of the trinity claims ONE God manifested in THREE persons, and the WT claims Trinitarianism is the belief in 3 Gods, which has been proven false, will you admit that they misrepresented the trinity?
@JAKEV25 "Ich no one in the bible teaches the trinity. Matt 28:19 in the (NWT), notice how it says "name" and not "names" ??? Now John 20:25 (NWT), Notice it says "nails" and not "nail"? Why is that?
During the restoration movement many people believed that there were three gods that worked together who where one God in essence, also Modalism is the father is the son.
"Three gods that work together who are one god in essence" is not the trinity. Whether this is what people believed it or not does not make it the Trinity, it neither is nor ever was the Trinity doctrine. Not only does it go completely against the creeds, but it goes completely against scripture, and makes no logical sense. Jesus is God's very logos (his reasoning faculty). He is not a/another god, but is in within the very fabric of God.
There is such a thing as the Trinity. Is the Trinity itself is a concept created by man from what they have understood and compiled from the pages of scripture. Whether it is true or not is the real issue, but there most certainly is such a thing as the Trinity.
You... Mormons, follow the Bible... that's hilarious! You mean you pick and choice passages that you like from the Bible. Lol! Oh, boy that's funny. It would be like saying JWs or Muslims follow the Bible. Rofl!!!
@lchiddle whether it is ture or not is an issue, the bible doesnt mention the word Trinity and they all have the same function thats why Jesus said Me and my Father are One
The bible doesn't contain the word "trinity" firstly because it is "the Trinity" is a man-made concept based on what is revealed in scripture, hence it is the concept that the word contains that is important, not the word itself. And second, because there is no such word in Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic. The word "trinity" comes from Latin.
These concepts summarize the chief and greatest heresy of Christendom. Truly the most grievous and evil heresy ever imposed on an erring and wayward Christianity is their creedal concept about God and the Godhead! But none of this troubles us very much. God has revealed himself to us in this day even as he did to the prophets of old. Bruce R Mcconkie
These creeds codify what Jeremiah calls the lies about God .They say he is unknown, uncreated, and incomprehensible. They say he is a spirit, without body, parts, or passions. They say he is everywhere and nowhere in particular present, that he fills the immensity of space and yet dwells in the hearts of men, and that he is an immaterial, incorporeal nothingness. They say he is one-god-in-three, and three-gods-in-one who neither hears, nor sees, nor speaks.
"They say he is a spirit, without body, parts..." They say? You mean Jesus in John 4:24?
"Without... passions... They say he is one-god-in-three, and three-gods-in-one who neither hears, nor sees, nor speaks." Who says these things? I certainly don't.
No I don't. I say "Three PERSONS in one GOD" - Two different categories - PERSONS and GOD, like three apples on one tree.
Of course! That's what Jesus meant to say, right? But instead "πνευμα ο θεος" slipped out instead... hey a good job your here to correct Jesus' blunders... As I said, the mention of you guys following the Bible is hilarious.
I have to say, Jonny, you certainly are a funny guy, a serial liar, but very amusing. Seriously, a bit of advice, it's not even worth lying or just guessing on public forums such as this one, their are far too many people who know a thing or two.
"πνευμα ο θεος" does not mean "spirit of God". If John 4:24 was supposed to say "spirit of God" the Greek would be "πνεῦμα θεοῦ".
Thus there are, in the Eternal Godhead, three persons--God the first, the Creator; God the second, the Redeemer; and God the third, the Testator. These three are one--one God if you will--in purposes, in powers, and in perfections. But each has his own severable work to perform, and mankind has a defined and known and specific relationship to each one of them. It is of these relationships that we shall now speak.
How is three separate gods one god? That makes no sense. If I understand your theology correctly, it is in fact a complete misrepresentation to describe the Mormon gods as one God, because they are not that at all, but three separate gods that work as one. That would be like describing a sports team as a single person, the only way you can do this is figuratively, as to mean it literally would be a lie.
Three gods cannot be one god, it is the same category, three apple cannot be one apple, three persons cannot be one person. To say three of something is one of that thing is completely illogical.
You could say that the Mormon's three gods are one godhead (godhead being redefined as something like a council of gods), but to same they are one god makes no sense.
@lchiddle the trinity only violates the law of noncontradiction if in the way they are one is the same as the way they are three. This is not how historical trinitarianism has been expressed. In persons God is three. In essence God is one.
Person and essence are not the same category. God is three PERSONS in one ESSENCE.
That's like saying three children in one family is a contradiction. In persons (including the mother and father) the family is five. In name the family is one.
Thus there are, in the Eternal Godhead, three persons--God the first, the Creator; God the second, the Redeemer; and God the third, the Testator. These three are one--one God if you will--in purposes, in powers, and in perfections. But each has his own severable work to perform, and mankind has a defined and known and specific relationship to each one of them
gods is a way to show there individuality but they are ONe
Yes Ich....I am a very stupid man. Do you know what the bible says about YHWH Ich?
28 However, there exists a God in the heavens who is a Revealer of secrets
If you would put away your manmade philosophy God will reveal the secrets to you as he does us....but if you continue to accept a lie for the truth he will probably not reveal anything to you.
Firstly, you're not stupid, you're just ignorant. You've been given the facts time and time again, yet you willingly ignore them, because they destroy your straw-man arguments, just as you are right now willingly ignoring Snarky's direct question to you.
"...manmade philosophy..."
Jake, I'm just believing what scripture tells me. You're the one who is ignoring how scripture reveals the nature of God, and instead creating your own god through worldly understanding.
@JAKEV25 Would I be misrepresenting the WT by saying that they teach Jesus is a woman because they say Jesus is WISDOM in proverbs and proverbs says wisdom is a woman who cries in the streets...
Proverbs 1:20 Wisdom cries aloud in the street, in the markets she raises her voice
Would that be an accurate representation or a MISrepresentation?
@JAKEV25 The theological aspects are immaterial. I'm looking for a right or wrong in the actions taken as human beings.
Would I be misrepresenting the WT by saying that they teach Jesus is a woman because they say Jesus is WISDOM in proverbs and proverbs says wisdom is a woman who cries in the streets...
Proverbs 1:20 Wisdom cries aloud in the street, in the markets she raises her voice
Would that be an accurate representation or a MISrepresentation?
Snarky...this is what it is going to be....God the Father is not Jesus......God the Son is not the Holy Spirit....God the Holy Spirit is not the Father.....
Now count for Pete's sake...How many God's do you really have or is Satan blinding you?
@JAKEV25 I am speaking about the issue of honesty and integrity. Was I accurate in what I presented in this video? Did I accurately quote and accurately represent the Watchtower in this video? We both know the answer Jake, but I want you to recognize it and verbalize it.
@JAKEV25 I am speaking of honest representation of the facts. That would mean "lying". Did the video accurately portray the Watchtower as misrepresenting the trinity?
@TheSnarkyApologist Snarky....you are teaching others of a false doctrine of demons..A doctrine that is not taught anywhere in scripture...a doctrine that comes from pagan society that you know God hates.....need you point any fingers at the WBTS?
"I don't fall for that extra biblical holy spirit understanding that contradicts scripture"
Extra biblical? As I said you couldn't even know whether the trinity concept is taught in scripture or not because you have no idea what it actually is.
Contradicts scripture? How? I'd love you to prove that one without misrepresenting the doctrine.
Seriously, again! How many times... This type of argumentation may work on those who have never done any investigation in the Trinity doctrine, but it is just pure ignorance to those who know what the Trinity concept is. Ignorance truly is bliss for you.
You are given the fact time and time again, yet you choose to ignore them because they destroy every objection you have towards the "trinity".
@lchiddle LOOK.......Wrap it up ANYWAY you want.....Make it a pretty package.....It still is 3 gods...not one....And you just delude yourself into believing you have one god. I am sorry but this is not the time for political correctness.
Every Non=trinitarian knows you have three gods...and we giggle behind your back when you try desperately to defend your stance by saying you have one God.
@JAKEV25 Jake, you my friend are in NO position to attempt to speak with any intelligence when you don't even know when someone is lying or not, or someone is misrepresenting another. The facts are here, you can live in denial if you chose. The doctrine of the trinity (as you know) is 3 persons in 1 God. Is that how it was presented by the Watchtower?
@lchiddle 234 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the "hierarchy of the truths of faith".CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
@lchiddle Billy Graham website regarding a question about the Trinity....
Our finite minds cannot understand or explain this mystery of God, which is nevertheless a fact. We must accept the truths found in the Word of God by faith even though we ourselves cannot comprehend them fully; read Hebrews 11:1, 3, 6 and 1 Corinthians 2:5-10, 14; 13:12.
A basic understanding of the concept of the Trinity is not a mystery, as these things have been revealed clearly throughout scripture. What is a mystery is the depths of such a concept, it is beyond the grasp of human reason, just like everything to do with God. The problem is you cannot even grasp the basics.
Do you not know that even scripture says very clearly time and time again that God is a mystery?
@JAKEV25 I want to regain focus on THIS video, you are sidestepping the main purpose of this video's information of FACT, and getting dangerously close to video replies and blocking.
You are obviously once again cornered with the truth Jake. This is becoming habit my friend. I don't have HATE for you just pity and frustration because you protect the ones that lie to you.
now direct answer time....
did the WT accurately present the Trinitarian concept of 3 persons in 1 God in this video?
"Wrap it up ANYWAY you want...It still is 3 gods...not one"
As I've said, you are ignorant to the Trinity doctrine, and ignorant to any correction. For you ignorance is bliss.
"Every non-trinitarian knows you have three gods"
Three gods in one person, right... At least according to the WTS. Your argumentation gets more and more obscure, answer me this Bill, if I wanted to get an accurate understanding of a Watchtower teaching should I go to a JW or someone who opposes them?
When your "Mother" rewrites history, your to obey that woman, believe her = WT 5/1/1975 p.274, par.3,10
>"What other church existed, other than the Catholic Church?"
ekklēsia, are the called out ones: All "that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours" (1Cor1:2; Jn17:17)
Have you called upon the name of Jesus Christ my Lord to save you?
Source: 2011 Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches
Pentecostal churches make up four of the 25 largest churches, and both the Assemblies of God and the Church of God (Cleveland, Tenn.) increased in membership. Only six of the 25 largest memberships increased over 2009 numbers. Jehovah's Witnesses experienced the greatest growth percentage overall, gaining 4.37% according to the yearbook.
@inscentof so you are agreeing with me that the Watchtower was guilty of maliciously misrepresenting the concept of the trinity as exposed in this video.
@inscentof I gotta head out, but when I come back much later, I would like to see if you watched the video, and if you agree that I presented it accurately, and if the WT was guilty of MISrepresenting.
@inscentof so you are agreeing with me that the Watchtower was guilty of maliciously misrepresenting the concept of the trinity as exposed in this video.
Fascinating! You are aware that the Assemblies of God being established in 1914 have 57 to 60 million adherents worldwide, whereas JWs being established in the 1870s is under 8 million.
Growth mean absolutely nothing. Wicca has an average annual growth of around 150% maybe they have the truth? Or perhaps Justin Bieber has the answer, have you looked at the size of his fan club?
@lchiddle Growth absoutely means zero, nothing. I'm just hightlighting the fact with the apologists, apostates, negative pr, youtube clowns, and everything else throw in! That this socitey can grow at all.
Interestingly, the Society's growth has slowed considerably since the birth of the Internet. '09 saw the highest growth seen since '98 when before growth % was much higher. However, most other statistics for '09 were worse than previous years.
Total baptisms were down, the % of baptisms per publisher was the 3rd lowest in memory, and hours preaching for a single baptism rose to the highest ever, at 5,639. In '09 the increase in publishers came from inactive Witnesses starting to preach again.
@FEINBACHRISING Would I be a liar and totally guilty of maliciously misrepresenting the Watchtower because I am constantly accusing them of saying "the Watchtower teaches Jesus is a woman, and they use proverbs 8:22 as support" Wisdom calls aloud in the street, **SHE** raises her voice in the public squares.
If I repeatedly taught this, in spite of your corrections, would I be a liar and malicious misrepresenter?
Would I be a liar and totally guilty of maliciously misrepresenting the Watchtower because I am constantly accusing them of saying "the Watchtower teaches Jesus is a woman, and they use proverbs 8:22 as support" Wisdom calls aloud in the street, **SHE** raises her voice in the public squares.
If I repeatedly taught this, in spite of your corrections, would I be a liar and malicious misrepresenter?
You're missing one detail... Jesus was put to death in the flesh, but quickened in the spirit (1 Pet 3:18).
The flesh that died, was that which Jesus had from Mary, the seed of David (Rom 1:3). God is spirit (John 4:24), yet Jesus, was both fully God and fully man (Phil 2:6-7). Jesus addressed the death of his flesh in John 2:19... "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." He was speaking of his BODY (John 2:21).
Also: WT theology tells us, the man Jesus is dead, forever dead; and exists as an angelic creature in heaven with Jehovah, the Most High God Holy Father. And all the WT 144,000 (not Jesus/Michael) are transformed into Most High Gods as 144,000 Jehovahs:
NWT 2Co3:18 "And all of us,while we [144,000] with unveiled faces reflect like mirrors the glory of Jehovah, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, exactly as done by Jehovah [the] Spirit."
The problem w/ JWs & groups alike is that if the nature of God cannot be explained & understood w/ our finite minds, then it's not worth believing. God is not bound by space & time like we are, so God having a "plural nature" is not impossible. God's ways are UNSEARCHABLE! (Rom 11:33)(Is 40:28). To str8 out deny the "Triune/Plural" nature of God, which is "embedded" in Scripture, you must know everything about God, or @ least think you do.
@FEINBACHRISING This has always been the problem with the WTBTS and all cults. They have a god that is sooooo small, that they know EVERYTHING there is to know about it. Remember we are talking about GOD! We don't know everything there is to know about an earthworm, and you expect to have YHWH figured out!
Let God be God as HE chooses, not as YOU want him to be. You have created a god to suit yourself!
@FEINBACHRISING "The Trinity is a sham. How can Jehovah's Witnesses misrepresent something that can't be explained or understood rationally."
I have been wating for this question:
Tell me in detail how there can exist a Being (YHWH) that has no beginning and has no end. Surely everything has a beginning. Everything has to have a beginning. Please explain this in your own words.
Is this explainable or understood rationally? Tell me you understand how something can have no beginnig or end.
Oh for God's sake Snarky......Talk about malicious???...Why don't you just call a duck a duck......You worship three (3) gods.......Call it one if you want...but you do not deceive Non-Trinitarians....We can count.
Jesus nor the Holy Spirit are gods, they are one with the Father the only true God. A leg of chicken is not a chicken, yet it is still fully chicken. How many time do people need to tell you this?
You maybe able to count, but what good is that if you don't know what you're counting. If I have two legs and a breast of chicken on a plate does that mean I have three chicken? Cos that's essentially what you're saying.
@lchiddle Look..Put it this way...maybe you can see it better......God the Father is not Jesus......God the Son is not the Father...God the Holy Spirit is not Jesus.
@JAKEV25 Man is not woman, woman is not man, but how many "flesh" are they according to scripture? (DontTweakTheGreek did a very cool job with that) That's not even the point I want to make however.
I really would like an answer to the question I posed prior....
Remain focused on the video alone, ok.....now, tell me specifically where I was in error on what I presented!
I don't agree with the terms "God the Son" and "God the Holy Spirit", I'm pretty sure that I have pointing this out to you in the past. The terms are not biblical, plus can lead to confusion about the trinity concept. If others wish to use the terms that's their call, but I personally do not. But to say the trinity is three gods based on these terms is just pure ignorance to what the trinity doctrine actually teaches.
Either way, this is three persons in one God. You're counting the persons and saying therefore it is three G/gods. That's like counting three apples on a tree and concluding there must be three trees. What you're doing is a logical fallacy.
i love that you brought up gregg stafford. the watchtower that he defended is so accurate that he has left them and is no longer a witness! i guess he was wrong back then!
Lol, the beginning had me laughing when you came up, You stay adding comic relief to your videos. I see you always talk about how the watchtower miss represents the trinity, but do you have a video explaining what the trinity really is? Thanks
JWs who believe all they are taught by WTS, thus disdain the deity of Jesus Christ as God our Saviour, and go forth with great malice, to militantly defend the WTS and deny the deity of Jesus Christ: these JWs shall NEVER know who "the [true] God" is. These JWs are acting no different then the 1st century Jews who looked Jesus in the face, and spat at Him, doing so because they loved trusting in and desiring their own religion, more then God Himself.
WT 11/1/2009, pg7, "FACT: The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention."
THAT is a blatant deliberate lie!
I'm reading book: "The Tri-unity of God is Jewish" by John B. Metzger. This book proves beyond a doubt: OT prophets and saints, and 1st century believers understood the Elohim as plurality in oneness of persons. Ha Moshiach (Jesus) declared to His Jewish believers exactly WHO Elohim (plural literal gods) was in One Name YHWH of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
@DontTweakTheGreek Well the last time he wore a sweater, he vanished into thin air right before our eyes. Now he changes wardrobes without being suspected...at least to the untrained eye...
WTS takes statements made by the apostate church of Rome and applies them to all Christians through all centuries. Example, WTS quotes from "New Catholic Encyclopedia" on the latter 3rd through 4th century (they call Constantine's Christendom) saying Christendom promoted RCc trinity formulations from that point on going forward.
Anyone who reads Bible and 1st & 2nd century writings of Christ's disciples KNOWS thats a blatant deliberate lie of the WTS, because the WTS has those writings also.
@barbsinclair Well said Barb. Why are we calling them 'misrepresentations' when they're lies?
It's not so bad if you do misrepresent in ignorance. Ignorance I know is not a good excuse, but an excuse all the same. BUT when they actually have the facts and also publicly demonstrate they have the facts - then distort the facts??? All in the name of truth and Jehovah. Is the Watchtower that confident of their control over the JWs that they can do this? Now, that IS power!
My prayer is that those who are conscience striken by the inconsistancies, contradictions and out right lies of the WTBTS will continue to investigate and call you guys for help, but most importantly to turn to Christ for salvation and rest for their souls... Fight the good fight Bill!!!
This is why the great defender of the WTBTS Gregg Stafford is no longer in the WTBTS... Great testamony for the WT Gregg you leaving the WTBTS gives you great cred in defending the organization of the WTBTS.
@QuakeCityRockers>"the great defender of the WTBTS Gregg Stafford is no longer in the WTBTS..."
While out, Stafford still defends WTBTS, still believes its foundation is of Jah God. Stafford admits this belief, >"I believed, as I still do, that there is much there that can be built upon, that Jah can use"
For us in ministry, this is a trustworthy saying:
A JW can leave the Watchtower Society, but they can't get the Watchtower Society to leave them. THAT takes the Power of God unto Salvation!
I'll buy that bridge in Brooklyn! I've got some pocket lint and a dusty New World Mistranslation I can trade!
LizardSticker 9 months ago
I disassociated back in 2008. You might already know that, though. But unless you were a JW, you likely don't know just how deep the rabbit hole goes. Even as far up as the circuit overseers, to the magazine writers, right into the governing body itself,, many, if not most of these people are certain the organization is being guided by God. In other words, nobody is really driving the boat. They think the boat is driving itself. I'm serious. One day, they're going to crash. God or no God
anzwertree 11 months ago
@anzwertree agreed.
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
Keep making these videos, you deserve much more recognition.
DarkAeonX 11 months ago
@DarkAeonX Thank you for the kind words, lets pray that many blinded ones come to see that their organization is corrupted by money, greed, and power......THEN perhaps they will consdier leaving the false prophet to come to the waiting arms of the Savior!
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@RationalEnquirer
My response does relate to your post, as the Father is the only true God. Jesus nor the Holy Spirit are gods, they are very God (by nature) from the Father.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@RationalEnquirer
The Father is the only true God. Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are not gods, but very God from the Father.
lchiddle 11 months ago
ich......ARE YOU KIDDING ME?......Ich no one in the bible teaches the trinity....Jesus never claimed to be God Almighty....and none of the Prophets or Moses..or Jesus worshipped a triune God......
I am not the one that refuses to believe my friend.
JAKEV25 11 months ago
@JAKEV25 Since the doctrine of the trinity claims ONE God manifested in THREE persons, and the WT claims Trinitarianism is the belief in 3 Gods, which has been proven false, will you admit that they misrepresented the trinity?
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@TheSnarkyApologist 4 months later and I'm still waiting for an answer. Well, he said more by silence than he could have said through comments!
TheSnarkyApologist 7 months ago
@JAKEV25
Jesus taught the Trinity (John 14:16-17, 15:26, 16:7,13,27-28).
Jesus claimed to be God Almighty (John 8:58).
Abraham worshiped a triune God (Gen 22:11-12) As did all the other prophets.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@JAKEV25 "Ich no one in the bible teaches the trinity. Matt 28:19 in the (NWT), notice how it says "name" and not "names" ??? Now John 20:25 (NWT), Notice it says "nails" and not "nail"? Why is that?
1914watcher 11 months ago
During the restoration movement many people believed that there were three gods that worked together who where one God in essence, also Modalism is the father is the son.
jonnygotz2343 11 months ago
@jonnygotz2343
"Three gods that work together who are one god in essence" is not the trinity. Whether this is what people believed it or not does not make it the Trinity, it neither is nor ever was the Trinity doctrine. Not only does it go completely against the creeds, but it goes completely against scripture, and makes no logical sense. Jesus is God's very logos (his reasoning faculty). He is not a/another god, but is in within the very fabric of God.
Modalism is not Trinitarianism.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle there is no such thing is the trinity!!, they are three seperate individuals who work together as one Accord but are 3 beings!!
We as Mormons dont believe in the creeds because they are man made we follow the BIBLE and BOOK OF MORMON
jonnygotz2343 11 months ago
@jonnygotz2343
There is such a thing as the Trinity. Is the Trinity itself is a concept created by man from what they have understood and compiled from the pages of scripture. Whether it is true or not is the real issue, but there most certainly is such a thing as the Trinity.
You... Mormons, follow the Bible... that's hilarious! You mean you pick and choice passages that you like from the Bible. Lol! Oh, boy that's funny. It would be like saying JWs or Muslims follow the Bible. Rofl!!!
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle whether it is ture or not is an issue, the bible doesnt mention the word Trinity and they all have the same function thats why Jesus said Me and my Father are One
jonnygotz2343 11 months ago
@jonnygotz2343
The bible doesn't contain the word "trinity" firstly because it is "the Trinity" is a man-made concept based on what is revealed in scripture, hence it is the concept that the word contains that is important, not the word itself. And second, because there is no such word in Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic. The word "trinity" comes from Latin.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle Ur confused!!! there are three persons who worked together but are seperate individuals
jonnygotz2343 11 months ago
@jonnygotz2343
No, not separate; distinct.
lchiddle 11 months ago
These concepts summarize the chief and greatest heresy of Christendom. Truly the most grievous and evil heresy ever imposed on an erring and wayward Christianity is their creedal concept about God and the Godhead! But none of this troubles us very much. God has revealed himself to us in this day even as he did to the prophets of old. Bruce R Mcconkie
jonnygotz2343 11 months ago
These creeds codify what Jeremiah calls the lies about God .They say he is unknown, uncreated, and incomprehensible. They say he is a spirit, without body, parts, or passions. They say he is everywhere and nowhere in particular present, that he fills the immensity of space and yet dwells in the hearts of men, and that he is an immaterial, incorporeal nothingness. They say he is one-god-in-three, and three-gods-in-one who neither hears, nor sees, nor speaks.
jonnygotz2343 11 months ago
@jonnygotz2343
"They say he is a spirit, without body, parts..." They say? You mean Jesus in John 4:24?
"Without... passions... They say he is one-god-in-three, and three-gods-in-one who neither hears, nor sees, nor speaks." Who says these things? I certainly don't.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle You do say he is One god in three!! and Jesus was saying God has a spirit not the he is a spirit
jonnygotz2343 11 months ago
@jonnygotz2343
No I don't. I say "Three PERSONS in one GOD" - Two different categories - PERSONS and GOD, like three apples on one tree.
Of course! That's what Jesus meant to say, right? But instead "πνευμα ο θεος" slipped out instead... hey a good job your here to correct Jesus' blunders... As I said, the mention of you guys following the Bible is hilarious.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle the greek means spirit of God not God is a spirit!!
jonnygotz2343 11 months ago
@jonnygotz2343
I have to say, Jonny, you certainly are a funny guy, a serial liar, but very amusing. Seriously, a bit of advice, it's not even worth lying or just guessing on public forums such as this one, their are far too many people who know a thing or two.
"πνευμα ο θεος" does not mean "spirit of God". If John 4:24 was supposed to say "spirit of God" the Greek would be "πνεῦμα θεοῦ".
lchiddle 11 months ago
Thus there are, in the Eternal Godhead, three persons--God the first, the Creator; God the second, the Redeemer; and God the third, the Testator. These three are one--one God if you will--in purposes, in powers, and in perfections. But each has his own severable work to perform, and mankind has a defined and known and specific relationship to each one of them. It is of these relationships that we shall now speak.
jonnygotz2343 11 months ago
@jonnygotz2343
How is three separate gods one god? That makes no sense. If I understand your theology correctly, it is in fact a complete misrepresentation to describe the Mormon gods as one God, because they are not that at all, but three separate gods that work as one. That would be like describing a sports team as a single person, the only way you can do this is figuratively, as to mean it literally would be a lie.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle The Smith Family for example are 3 different person but they are ONE Family. Thats the Godhead of the LDS church
jonnygotz2343 11 months ago
@jonnygotz2343
The Smith FAMILY and the Smith PERSONS are two different categories. Your three gods are not one god.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle They are three gods because they are seperate individuals, but in the Godhead they are one God in Purpose!
jonnygotz2343 11 months ago
@jonnygotz2343
Three gods cannot be one god, it is the same category, three apple cannot be one apple, three persons cannot be one person. To say three of something is one of that thing is completely illogical.
You could say that the Mormon's three gods are one godhead (godhead being redefined as something like a council of gods), but to same they are one god makes no sense.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle No those three individuals are co equal and co eternal which would make them ONE
jonnygotz2343 11 months ago
@jonnygotz2343
It doesn't matter how many times you say these three gods are one god, you are not going to change the laws of logic.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle the trinity only violates the law of noncontradiction if in the way they are one is the same as the way they are three. This is not how historical trinitarianism has been expressed. In persons God is three. In essence God is one.
nobunaga86 10 months ago
@nobunaga86
Person and essence are not the same category. God is three PERSONS in one ESSENCE.
That's like saying three children in one family is a contradiction. In persons (including the mother and father) the family is five. In name the family is one.
lchiddle 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Thus there are, in the Eternal Godhead, three persons--God the first, the Creator; God the second, the Redeemer; and God the third, the Testator. These three are one--one God if you will--in purposes, in powers, and in perfections. But each has his own severable work to perform, and mankind has a defined and known and specific relationship to each one of them
gods is a way to show there individuality but they are ONe
jonnygotz2343 11 months ago
Yes Ich....I am a very stupid man. Do you know what the bible says about YHWH Ich?
28 However, there exists a God in the heavens who is a Revealer of secrets
If you would put away your manmade philosophy God will reveal the secrets to you as he does us....but if you continue to accept a lie for the truth he will probably not reveal anything to you.
JAKEV25 11 months ago
@JAKEV25
Firstly, you're not stupid, you're just ignorant. You've been given the facts time and time again, yet you willingly ignore them, because they destroy your straw-man arguments, just as you are right now willingly ignoring Snarky's direct question to you.
"...manmade philosophy..."
Jake, I'm just believing what scripture tells me. You're the one who is ignoring how scripture reveals the nature of God, and instead creating your own god through worldly understanding.
lchiddle 11 months ago
I just told you that in Proverbs 8 Wisdom is Not Jesus.
JAKEV25 11 months ago
By the way....Greg Stafford in no Trinitarian......
JAKEV25 11 months ago
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@JAKEV25
"By the way....Greg Stafford in no Trinitarian......"
I'm pretty sure we are all fully aware of that! Lol
lchiddle 11 months ago
@JAKEV25 Would I be misrepresenting the WT by saying that they teach Jesus is a woman because they say Jesus is WISDOM in proverbs and proverbs says wisdom is a woman who cries in the streets...
Proverbs 1:20 Wisdom cries aloud in the street, in the markets she raises her voice
Would that be an accurate representation or a MISrepresentation?
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@TheSnarkyApologist Snarky....Jesus cannot be "wisdom" described in Proverbs 8
JAKEV25 11 months ago
@JAKEV25 The theological aspects are immaterial. I'm looking for a right or wrong in the actions taken as human beings.
Would I be misrepresenting the WT by saying that they teach Jesus is a woman because they say Jesus is WISDOM in proverbs and proverbs says wisdom is a woman who cries in the streets...
Proverbs 1:20 Wisdom cries aloud in the street, in the markets she raises her voice
Would that be an accurate representation or a MISrepresentation?
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
Respond to this video...In other words do you have the mental capacity to determine when someone is misrepresenting another?
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
Snarky...this is what it is going to be....God the Father is not Jesus......God the Son is not the Holy Spirit....God the Holy Spirit is not the Father.....
Now count for Pete's sake...How many God's do you really have or is Satan blinding you?
JAKEV25 11 months ago
@JAKEV25 I am speaking about the issue of honesty and integrity. Was I accurate in what I presented in this video? Did I accurately quote and accurately represent the Watchtower in this video? We both know the answer Jake, but I want you to recognize it and verbalize it.
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@TheSnarkyApologist I am speaking of your worshipping a false triune god.
JAKEV25 11 months ago
@JAKEV25 I am speaking of honest representation of the facts. That would mean "lying". Did the video accurately portray the Watchtower as misrepresenting the trinity?
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@TheSnarkyApologist Snarky....you are teaching others of a false doctrine of demons..A doctrine that is not taught anywhere in scripture...a doctrine that comes from pagan society that you know God hates.....need you point any fingers at the WBTS?
JAKEV25 11 months ago
@JAKEV25
"A doctrine that is not taught anywhere in scripture."
Unfortunately Bill the way you represent or should I say misrepresent the trinity it's obvious that you have no idea what to even look for.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle Ich....I don't fall for that extra biblical holy spirit understanding that contradicts scripture...sorry.
JAKEV25 11 months ago
@JAKEV25
"I don't fall for that extra biblical holy spirit understanding that contradicts scripture"
Extra biblical? As I said you couldn't even know whether the trinity concept is taught in scripture or not because you have no idea what it actually is.
Contradicts scripture? How? I'd love you to prove that one without misrepresenting the doctrine.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@JAKEV25
Seriously, again! How many times... This type of argumentation may work on those who have never done any investigation in the Trinity doctrine, but it is just pure ignorance to those who know what the Trinity concept is. Ignorance truly is bliss for you.
You are given the fact time and time again, yet you choose to ignore them because they destroy every objection you have towards the "trinity".
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle LOOK.......Wrap it up ANYWAY you want.....Make it a pretty package.....It still is 3 gods...not one....And you just delude yourself into believing you have one god. I am sorry but this is not the time for political correctness.
Every Non=trinitarian knows you have three gods...and we giggle behind your back when you try desperately to defend your stance by saying you have one God.
JAKEV25 11 months ago
@JAKEV25 Jake, you my friend are in NO position to attempt to speak with any intelligence when you don't even know when someone is lying or not, or someone is misrepresenting another. The facts are here, you can live in denial if you chose. The doctrine of the trinity (as you know) is 3 persons in 1 God. Is that how it was presented by the Watchtower?
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@TheSnarkyApologist Snarky....Your own Pastors claim it is a mystery who can blame the WBTS?
JAKEV25 11 months ago
@JAKEV25
"Your own Pastors claim it is a mystery"
Show us a quote stating that the Trinity is a mystery from any respected trinitarian scholar.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle 234 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the "hierarchy of the truths of faith".CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
You did get this dogma from the RCC Ich
JAKEV25 11 months ago
@lchiddle Billy Graham website regarding a question about the Trinity....
Our finite minds cannot understand or explain this mystery of God, which is nevertheless a fact. We must accept the truths found in the Word of God by faith even though we ourselves cannot comprehend them fully; read Hebrews 11:1, 3, 6 and 1 Corinthians 2:5-10, 14; 13:12.
JAKEV25 11 months ago
Comment removed
lchiddle 11 months ago
@JAKEV25
No Bill, I got the "dogma" from the Bible.
A basic understanding of the concept of the Trinity is not a mystery, as these things have been revealed clearly throughout scripture. What is a mystery is the depths of such a concept, it is beyond the grasp of human reason, just like everything to do with God. The problem is you cannot even grasp the basics.
Do you not know that even scripture says very clearly time and time again that God is a mystery?
lchiddle 11 months ago
@JAKEV25
Deut 29:29 “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and our children forever”.
Job 36:26 "How great is God--beyond our understanding! The number of his years is past finding out."
Isaiah 55:9 ""As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."
Shall I go on?
The WTBTS knows Jehovah's address in the Pleaides constellation. They got Jehovah ALL figured out cause he's a small God
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@JAKEV25 I want to regain focus on THIS video, you are sidestepping the main purpose of this video's information of FACT, and getting dangerously close to video replies and blocking.
You are obviously once again cornered with the truth Jake. This is becoming habit my friend. I don't have HATE for you just pity and frustration because you protect the ones that lie to you.
now direct answer time....
did the WT accurately present the Trinitarian concept of 3 persons in 1 God in this video?
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@JAKEV25
"Wrap it up ANYWAY you want...It still is 3 gods...not one"
As I've said, you are ignorant to the Trinity doctrine, and ignorant to any correction. For you ignorance is bliss.
"Every non-trinitarian knows you have three gods"
Three gods in one person, right... At least according to the WTS. Your argumentation gets more and more obscure, answer me this Bill, if I wanted to get an accurate understanding of a Watchtower teaching should I go to a JW or someone who opposes them?
lchiddle 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@FEINBACHRISING >>>The Trinity is a sham. How can Jehovah's Witnesses misrepresent something that can't be explained or understood rationally.
Please explain rationally how God always existed, or how Christ was conceived in a Virgin.
What's that you say? I can't but it's in the Bible? OOOOOHHH. Guess what? So is Christ's deity and the Holy Spirit's personhood/deity.
msm1876 11 months ago
@FEINBACHRISING
>"Rewriting history again...?"
When your "Mother" rewrites history, your to obey that woman, believe her = WT 5/1/1975 p.274, par.3,10
>"What other church existed, other than the Catholic Church?"
ekklēsia, are the called out ones: All "that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours" (1Cor1:2; Jn17:17)
Have you called upon the name of Jesus Christ my Lord to save you?
barbsinclair 11 months ago
Source: 2011 Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches
Pentecostal churches make up four of the 25 largest churches, and both the Assemblies of God and the Church of God (Cleveland, Tenn.) increased in membership. Only six of the 25 largest memberships increased over 2009 numbers. Jehovah's Witnesses experienced the greatest growth percentage overall, gaining 4.37% according to the yearbook.
inscentof 11 months ago
@inscentof so you are agreeing with me that the Watchtower was guilty of maliciously misrepresenting the concept of the trinity as exposed in this video.
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@TheSnarkyApologist Read other comment, Please!
inscentof 11 months ago
@inscentof I gotta head out, but when I come back much later, I would like to see if you watched the video, and if you agree that I presented it accurately, and if the WT was guilty of MISrepresenting.
Thanks!
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@TheSnarkyApologist No comment! You know where I stand...Please don't.
inscentof 11 months ago
@inscentof so you are agreeing with me that the Watchtower was guilty of maliciously misrepresenting the concept of the trinity as exposed in this video.
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@inscentof
Fascinating! You are aware that the Assemblies of God being established in 1914 have 57 to 60 million adherents worldwide, whereas JWs being established in the 1870s is under 8 million.
Growth mean absolutely nothing. Wicca has an average annual growth of around 150% maybe they have the truth? Or perhaps Justin Bieber has the answer, have you looked at the size of his fan club?
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle Growth absoutely means zero, nothing. I'm just hightlighting the fact with the apologists, apostates, negative pr, youtube clowns, and everything else throw in! That this socitey can grow at all.
inscentof 11 months ago
@inscentof
Interestingly, the Society's growth has slowed considerably since the birth of the Internet. '09 saw the highest growth seen since '98 when before growth % was much higher. However, most other statistics for '09 were worse than previous years.
[cont'd]
lchiddle 11 months ago
[cont'd]
Total baptisms were down, the % of baptisms per publisher was the 3rd lowest in memory, and hours preaching for a single baptism rose to the highest ever, at 5,639. In '09 the increase in publishers came from inactive Witnesses starting to preach again.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle Actually...The JW had the highest growth rate last year despite the internet video wacos.
JAKEV25 11 months ago
@JAKEV25
Lol. I would hardly call a 2.6% growth their highest! It's not even their highest in the last 10 years! Do your homework, and stop making stuff up.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle It was 4%. ...And I believe it was the largest increase.
JAKEV25 11 months ago
@lchiddle hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@FEINBACHRISING Would I be a liar and totally guilty of maliciously misrepresenting the Watchtower because I am constantly accusing them of saying "the Watchtower teaches Jesus is a woman, and they use proverbs 8:22 as support" Wisdom calls aloud in the street, **SHE** raises her voice in the public squares.
If I repeatedly taught this, in spite of your corrections, would I be a liar and malicious misrepresenter?
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@TheSnarkyApologist Hoping to get some kind of reply if possible...
Would I be a liar and totally guilty of maliciously misrepresenting the Watchtower because I am constantly accusing them of saying "the Watchtower teaches Jesus is a woman, and they use proverbs 8:22 as support" Wisdom calls aloud in the street, **SHE** raises her voice in the public squares.
If I repeatedly taught this, in spite of your corrections, would I be a liar and malicious misrepresenter?
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@FEINBACHRISING
You're missing one detail... Jesus was put to death in the flesh, but quickened in the spirit (1 Pet 3:18).
The flesh that died, was that which Jesus had from Mary, the seed of David (Rom 1:3). God is spirit (John 4:24), yet Jesus, was both fully God and fully man (Phil 2:6-7). Jesus addressed the death of his flesh in John 2:19... "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." He was speaking of his BODY (John 2:21).
lchiddle 11 months ago
Not believing in the Trinity. JWs believe the Father took Michael the Archangel and had him do all his dirty work.
Saintclaudine 11 months ago
@Saintclaudine
Accordingly, Watchtower theology tells us that Jesus/Michael loves us more than Jehovah...
John 15:13 - "Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends."
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle, Excellent point !
Also: WT theology tells us, the man Jesus is dead, forever dead; and exists as an angelic creature in heaven with Jehovah, the Most High God Holy Father. And all the WT 144,000 (not Jesus/Michael) are transformed into Most High Gods as 144,000 Jehovahs:
NWT 2Co3:18 "And all of us,while we [144,000] with unveiled faces reflect like mirrors the glory of Jehovah, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, exactly as done by Jehovah [the] Spirit."
barbsinclair 11 months ago
The problem w/ JWs & groups alike is that if the nature of God cannot be explained & understood w/ our finite minds, then it's not worth believing. God is not bound by space & time like we are, so God having a "plural nature" is not impossible. God's ways are UNSEARCHABLE! (Rom 11:33)(Is 40:28). To str8 out deny the "Triune/Plural" nature of God, which is "embedded" in Scripture, you must know everything about God, or @ least think you do.
yeshuaYHVHechad 11 months ago
@FEINBACHRISING This has always been the problem with the WTBTS and all cults. They have a god that is sooooo small, that they know EVERYTHING there is to know about it. Remember we are talking about GOD! We don't know everything there is to know about an earthworm, and you expect to have YHWH figured out!
Let God be God as HE chooses, not as YOU want him to be. You have created a god to suit yourself!
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
When I heard your new intro music I almost got up and did the "Cotton Eye Joe".
JAT002 11 months ago
@JAT002 hahahahahahahaha
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@FEINBACHRISING "The Trinity is a sham. How can Jehovah's Witnesses misrepresent something that can't be explained or understood rationally."
I have been wating for this question:
Tell me in detail how there can exist a Being (YHWH) that has no beginning and has no end. Surely everything has a beginning. Everything has to have a beginning. Please explain this in your own words.
Is this explainable or understood rationally? Tell me you understand how something can have no beginnig or end.
JAT002 11 months ago
Oh for God's sake Snarky......Talk about malicious???...Why don't you just call a duck a duck......You worship three (3) gods.......Call it one if you want...but you do not deceive Non-Trinitarians....We can count.
JAKEV25 11 months ago
@JAKEV25 BRAINWASHED!!!!
JAT002 11 months ago
@JAKEV25 What part of the video was not accurate Jake?
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@JAKEV25
Jesus nor the Holy Spirit are gods, they are one with the Father the only true God. A leg of chicken is not a chicken, yet it is still fully chicken. How many time do people need to tell you this?
You maybe able to count, but what good is that if you don't know what you're counting. If I have two legs and a breast of chicken on a plate does that mean I have three chicken? Cos that's essentially what you're saying.
Jesus God, not a god.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@lchiddle Look..Put it this way...maybe you can see it better......God the Father is not Jesus......God the Son is not the Father...God the Holy Spirit is not Jesus.
Now count....How many Gods is that?
JAKEV25 11 months ago
@JAKEV25 Jake why does your org keep lying about the Trinity?
21crosscheck21 11 months ago
@JAKEV25 Man is not woman, woman is not man, but how many "flesh" are they according to scripture? (DontTweakTheGreek did a very cool job with that) That's not even the point I want to make however.
I really would like an answer to the question I posed prior....
Remain focused on the video alone, ok.....now, tell me specifically where I was in error on what I presented!
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@JAKEV25
I don't agree with the terms "God the Son" and "God the Holy Spirit", I'm pretty sure that I have pointing this out to you in the past. The terms are not biblical, plus can lead to confusion about the trinity concept. If others wish to use the terms that's their call, but I personally do not. But to say the trinity is three gods based on these terms is just pure ignorance to what the trinity doctrine actually teaches.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@JAKEV25
Either way, this is three persons in one God. You're counting the persons and saying therefore it is three G/gods. That's like counting three apples on a tree and concluding there must be three trees. What you're doing is a logical fallacy.
lchiddle 11 months ago
@JAKEV25 I'm looking for an answer that either says
1. "Yes Bill, the WT was maliciously misrepresenting the Trinity"
or
2. "You are wrong Bill and here is how you misrepresented the WT in your video"
So Jake.....what's it going to be.
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
i love that you brought up gregg stafford. the watchtower that he defended is so accurate that he has left them and is no longer a witness! i guess he was wrong back then!
jtimmis 11 months ago
Bill, I think the Watchtower already bought that bridge with the proceeds from the sale of some of their Brooklyn properties:)
rachelbinto 11 months ago
@rachelbinto hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.............
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
Lol, the beginning had me laughing when you came up, You stay adding comic relief to your videos. I see you always talk about how the watchtower miss represents the trinity, but do you have a video explaining what the trinity really is? Thanks
shaddelick 11 months ago
@shaddelick Hi, I have just done a video on the Triune nature of God.
DontTweakTheGreek 11 months ago
@DontTweakTheGreek Why am i not subd' to you?!
Gonna go fix that RIGHT NOW...
supermanny73 11 months ago
@shaddelick why yes...I do....I farmed it out to one of my many "underlings" as you see below from my dear friend DontTweakTheGreek! lol....
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@TheSnarkyApologist >> "..farmed it out to one of my many "underlings.."
I always get the difficult jobs.. ;o)
DontTweakTheGreek 11 months ago
JWs who believe all they are taught by WTS, thus disdain the deity of Jesus Christ as God our Saviour, and go forth with great malice, to militantly defend the WTS and deny the deity of Jesus Christ: these JWs shall NEVER know who "the [true] God" is. These JWs are acting no different then the 1st century Jews who looked Jesus in the face, and spat at Him, doing so because they loved trusting in and desiring their own religion, more then God Himself.
I'm being very blunt, but that IS the issue.
barbsinclair 11 months ago 2
WT 11/1/2009, pg7, "FACT: The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention."
THAT is a blatant deliberate lie!
I'm reading book: "The Tri-unity of God is Jewish" by John B. Metzger. This book proves beyond a doubt: OT prophets and saints, and 1st century believers understood the Elohim as plurality in oneness of persons. Ha Moshiach (Jesus) declared to His Jewish believers exactly WHO Elohim (plural literal gods) was in One Name YHWH of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
barbsinclair 11 months ago
Do I get a point for spotting the shirt change Bill?
DontTweakTheGreek 11 months ago
@DontTweakTheGreek At least all he's done is change his shirt...not his doctrine! LOL!
supermanny73 11 months ago
@supermanny73 ..and changed from having a sweater? Must be the Spring Time that's done that..
Don't know where 21cc21's got to?
Perhaps they've had words lol!
DontTweakTheGreek 11 months ago
@DontTweakTheGreek Well the last time he wore a sweater, he vanished into thin air right before our eyes. Now he changes wardrobes without being suspected...at least to the untrained eye...
Nothing slips by you, my friend!
supermanny73 11 months ago
@supermanny73 Well Manny, as well as being the Snarky he's also the Sneaky.
DontTweakTheGreek 11 months ago
@DontTweakTheGreek higher points would have come from the fact I have on a dress shirt with carpenter pants.....
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@TheSnarkyApologist >> "a dress shirt with carpenter pants...."
Carpenter pants? Are you hinting at affiliation with someone??
DontTweakTheGreek 11 months ago
WTS takes statements made by the apostate church of Rome and applies them to all Christians through all centuries. Example, WTS quotes from "New Catholic Encyclopedia" on the latter 3rd through 4th century (they call Constantine's Christendom) saying Christendom promoted RCc trinity formulations from that point on going forward.
Anyone who reads Bible and 1st & 2nd century writings of Christ's disciples KNOWS thats a blatant deliberate lie of the WTS, because the WTS has those writings also.
barbsinclair 11 months ago
@barbsinclair Well said Barb. Why are we calling them 'misrepresentations' when they're lies?
It's not so bad if you do misrepresent in ignorance. Ignorance I know is not a good excuse, but an excuse all the same. BUT when they actually have the facts and also publicly demonstrate they have the facts - then distort the facts??? All in the name of truth and Jehovah. Is the Watchtower that confident of their control over the JWs that they can do this? Now, that IS power!
DontTweakTheGreek 11 months ago
Please let me have beaten Brian...
DontTweakTheGreek 11 months ago
My prayer is that those who are conscience striken by the inconsistancies, contradictions and out right lies of the WTBTS will continue to investigate and call you guys for help, but most importantly to turn to Christ for salvation and rest for their souls... Fight the good fight Bill!!!
QuakeCityRockers 11 months ago
@QuakeCityRockers thanks bro!
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
@QuakeCityRockers thanks bro!
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago
This is why the great defender of the WTBTS Gregg Stafford is no longer in the WTBTS... Great testamony for the WT Gregg you leaving the WTBTS gives you great cred in defending the organization of the WTBTS.
QuakeCityRockers 11 months ago 2
@QuakeCityRockers>"the great defender of the WTBTS Gregg Stafford is no longer in the WTBTS..."
While out, Stafford still defends WTBTS, still believes its foundation is of Jah God. Stafford admits this belief, >"I believed, as I still do, that there is much there that can be built upon, that Jah can use"
For us in ministry, this is a trustworthy saying:
A JW can leave the Watchtower Society, but they can't get the Watchtower Society to leave them. THAT takes the Power of God unto Salvation!
barbsinclair 11 months ago
@barbsinclair >> "A JW can leave the Watchtower Society, but they can't get the Watchtower Society to leave them"
That is very similar to "You can take a man out of the army, but you cannot take the army out of the man"
The JW does go through constant programming. It's relentless. Not just in meetings, but in the publications and in conversation.
DontTweakTheGreek 11 months ago
@DontTweakTheGreek BRAINWASHING!....nuff said.
TheSnarkyApologist 11 months ago