Air Traffic Control: "Rough" Emergency Landing at JFK

[33minnesotatwins]

Don't quote me on this but I think the problem is that those crosswinds were over the safe limit of the boeing 767. if they didnt get Rwy 31L, they would have attempted an unessasary unsafe landing and that could have caused a go around which would be bad if they were low on fuel.

[daspidrr]

People! don't go and make your own opinion... You have to look at all the evidence, and clearly this means to check the whole route audio and the airplane's situation.... Maybe he did stated before he was running low on fuel (which it shouldn't be mistaken by declaring an emergency, aka MAYDAY) this is just and advisory that any other delay may lead to an emergency situation (which would be just the amount of fuel to divert). Whenever I look at the whole scenario I would give my OPINION.

[plane63]

Let's look at it from both sides. You're the pilot... you've got over 200 souls aboard your aircraft and perhaps are the victim of bad fuel planning. Okay. You're human, you make mistakes. Now what? Divert? If we divert we may not have enough fuel to do a go around. Or do we declare emergency and land JFK? As a pilot myself I would choose JFK. You're the controller... you've got countless arrivals sequenced and lined up. This would cause a moderate delay for a few flights. What's your opinion?

[ylen13]

If i was that controller I would have told that pilot negative you are not cleared to land, end of discussion.

[cptnbennett]

@ylen13 As a pilot, if you declare an emergency, you can ignore all FAA regulations and any air traffic control instruction to meet the necessities of the emergency.

[ylen13]

@cptnbennett Screw faa regulations. My airport , my rules.

[icemachine79]

@ylen13 That's why you're not a controller. At least I hope you're not.

[699backstab]

MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY is unmistakeable. It was never spoken. Pilots too cool to speak like pilots. Crew failure.

[MORRIS153]

This is a classic case of a pilot who is arrogant, lazy, and selfish. instead of making a cross-wind approach, (which he was already lined up for), he opted to land on an inactive RW so that he would land into the wind. The FAA did an official report on this case, and there was NO fuel issue. If he had continued with the approach, he would have landed before the Delta aircraft. The subsequent actions by the FAA and American Airlines was that the pilot was fired or suspended the airline was fined

[txfirefighter4305]

@MORRIS153 Can you link us to this info?

[minitrundle]

Not telling them how to do their jobs, but under them condition you need to remain calm, not argue!

[ColtDeltaElite10mm]

That AA002 pilot was an azz hole! He simply couldnt fly runway heading when asked??? Nooooo, he had to be special and screw everybody else up. He thought he was special. He NEVER said anything about low fuel. Ill bet he was an only spoiled rotten child that got everything he ever wanted from mommy and daddy. Including flight school lessons. What a lil bitch!

[alexjamaalstraughn]

@ColtDeltaElite10mm ok yes he didnt say he was low on fuel but from what i understand from your comment he should risk lives to continue on obeying the atc? as far as i know if its impossible to do so you say you cant..

[redviper2GAMER]

Obama said suck his big dick. Big nig kicked there ass. Big deal. The FAA warns United States.  Who cares? China public are small weak people. Little bitty workers in FAA.

[freeportkid]

i hope this pilot was fired for abuse on declaring an emergency becuase he was to crappy of a pilot to land in a crosswind visual

[txfirefighter4305]

Pilot is ultimately at fault for failing to recognize the fuel emergency earlier and landing at an alternate, No matter the cause of the "low fuel" problem...he should have landed at the nearest facility rather than pushing for his destination. He also never gave a nature of the emergency. I would like to hear the rest of the tape.

[mattwright16]

@txfirefighter4305 It's obvious that with your response, i can tell you aren't an airline pilot. If you are, you should know better. First off, he's already on approach. Divert to where? When he's already committed? Also, winds 320/23G35? that is a direct crosswind. Most aircraft can't even land in those crosswinds. And you are talking about the pilot being at fault?!

[AlevliTurkGs]

Communication with ATC is harder than emergency !

God, I"m a Talented poet.Thanx guys i have to use this inspiration ...

[FlyingPhoAddict]

American Airlines Pilots.....

[joecessna182]

Total abuse of an emergency, there is most likely no way that he was low enough on fuel to not be able to be resequenced to 31R considering that this was his first approach attempt. We are always given a fuel reserve that gives us 45 minutes of fuel beyond out destination on days when the weather is good and even more gas than that if we need an alternate. Don't think he needed to declare an emergency here.

[NVTrucker]

@joecessna182 I didn't see where it said it was his first approach. Am I mistaken?

[joecessna182]

@NVTrucker You are right, I can't say for sure it was his first approach. It sounded as though everyone else had been getting in okay, so I was left to assume so.  But there were a great many different ways to handle that situation. I have never declared an emergency simply because I could not land on a certain runway due to the winds. I simply told the controller I was unable and would need vectors to a different runway, and they were perfectly happy to accommodate me to another runway.

[AlevliTurkGs]

@joecessna182

you cant yuse that 45 min reserve fuel without declaring emergency.

[joecessna182]

@AlevliTurkGs Yes you can.

[AlevliTurkGs]

@joecessna182

No you cant.

[joecessna182]

@AlevliTurkGs Where are you getting this information? I have flown into my 45 minutes before (yes, as an airline pilot) and did not have to declare an emergency. There is some company paperwork to do, but you do not have to declare a fuel emergency until you get below 30 minutes, thats the way the regs read. Check the facts.

[AlevliTurkGs]

@joecessna182

okay switch the numbers.you cant land with fuel under 30 minutes.u have to declare emergency.

[joecessna182]

@AlevliTurkGs I am not sure what it is in Turkey, and there is no need to start a wee wee match, but just check the facts before you get up on your pedestal and tell people that they are wrong.

[AlevliTurkGs]

@joecessna182

I am Talking about USA.Slow down champion ...

[AlevliTurkGs]

@joecessna182

In europe, its also atpl question.

[joecessna182]

@AlevliTurkGs Well thats great, only I don't fly in Europe, and this didn't happen in Europe. So, what's the argument here?

[AlevliTurkGs]

@joecessna182

all right so shake hands

[joecessna182]

@AlevliTurkGs Thats fine, shakey shakey. Moving on.

[freeportkid]

@joecessna182 you never know

[freeportkid]

@joecessna182 though he is being a dick about it haha

[Stupendoussteve]

@joecessna182 Read about this story in the past. This was not his first approach, he'd been around three or four times and was running indeed low on fuel.

[SlamDuncDrummer]

@joecessna182

When you are responsible for hundreds of people sitting behind you, you don't screw around. You get what you need an deal with any argumentative issues later.

If you are a captain and or f/o of a 767 for American you don't have 1200 hours. You have thousands, perhaps tens of thousands between the two.

The pilots of commercial airliners don't always get as much fuel as they ask for as companies try to save money by efficiency.

Yes I am a pilot.

[joecessna182]

@SlamDuncDrummer

And I am an airline pilot, and I never leave without the fuel that I need to get to the destination. I also have a lot more than 1200 hours. Now if it turns out that he had a fuel emergency, that should have been declared long before this happened. If his airplane was that close to falling out of the sky, he made a mistake about 35 minutes before. Bottom line, barring an en-route re-route, you should have plenty of gas to get where you are going.

[SlamDuncDrummer]

@joecessna182

In theory that is great but in extremely busy air space like Chicago, Atlanta, NY etc., issues such as weather, runway maintenance, other emergencies etc., can change your flight plan. This aircraft may have been already holding for quite some time.

I have looked for an NTSB report and there does not appear to be one so it does not appear this incident triggered an investigation.

[otef434]

@joecessna182 I really have to agree. So many times I see this kind of thing happening during weather or metering into the destination.  There are enough alternatives that once you dip into that "reserve" you should already have made plans to divert for fuel.

I also think it is procedure with most airlines to contact Dispatch when you get into a situation where low fuel is an issue due to holding or weather.

[SlamDuncDrummer]

@joecessna182

In addition, I have a number of close friends that fly for both commercial (Delta/Southwest) and cargo (UPS) that have company policies for fuel. I know that my friend that works for UPS has had to divert numerous times due to fuel. Not sure if she has ever had to declare an emergency.

[joecessna182]

@SlamDuncDrummer Believe me, I know that things don't always go as planned. I have had to divert for low fuel before too when dodging weather or having other irregularities pop up. But you need to leave yourself an out when it gets down to it, things like this really shouldn't get that far. And in all fairness, none of us was there, so we are all just speculating anyway.

[SlamDuncDrummer]

@joecessna182

Agree 100%.

[SlamDuncDrummer]

@joecessna182

My previous plane was a 1966 Cessna 150F (have a 337 now) and I live in St. Louis. I fly up to see my parents all the time in Naperville (1C5) which is 212nm.  My 150 cruised at about 115mph at 6,000 feet and had a range without reserve of 4.1 hours and 475 miles.

I had my trip planned SUS to 1C5 right at 2:45. From the time I took off and got to altitude the winds had changed and I had a 38kt head wind.

I had to refuel less than 1/2 way and could have driven there faster.

[keebler156]

@joecessna182 agreed, we dont know exactally the sichouation

[mwethereld]

"31R, Cleared to land, Wind 310 @ 24 gusting 34 ya......" would so have loved to hear what he said after he let go of the mic switch!

[apascaner]

Stupid ATC guy, just give him Rwy 31R and go home.

[joecessna182]

@apascaner The controller here did nothing wrong. You can't just let every pilot in the sky do whatever they want willy nilly, that is why we have controllers, and although we don't always see eye to eye, they have the big picture and we don't. I can about guarantee that this guy had enough time and fuel to get vectored to 31R, unless his plane was on fire and he failed to mention that.

[JHPStudios]

Landing with gusts up to 35 knots of down-wind. I've learned to never land with down-wind, he should have taken 13R if that was possible.

[lennyboy1993]

@JHPStudios if they would have taken 13R they would have had down-wind. The pilots did a good job taking 31R because the wind was 310 at 23 gusting to 25.

[Luch1516]

Where are you getting this low fuel information from? Sounds to me like he couldn't handle the the visual to 22 and didn't want to get resequenced. This was an abuse of an emergency because he wanted to land immediately. Do the go around and try again. Don't mess up the whole flow.

[deekay744]

USAirways ain't need no ILS for crosswind landings yo.

[2kool4yomama]

aa bossed them

[alaricdogface]

Didn't want to land in the river like Sullenberger.