Aubrey Manning Discussion (4/5) - Richard Dawkins

[ZachRose88]

I personally believe the "search for a greater meaning" can be fulfilled by doing the best one can to further the human race: that is an indirect way towards immortality. You will die knowing that you did everything you possilby could to contribute to the world and those around you in the best way you knew how.

[SteveDutchy]

interesting conversation

[FeelOfFriction]

They're both full of shit.

[bonnie43uk]

@FeelOfFriction i think you'll find we all have excrement in our bowels, you make an excellent observation Sir.

[Mafiaaffe]

"I've never pushed my beliefs on anyone"

I agree i take it back. But what pissed me of is that you question facts and talk about thinks you clearly dont know much about, like evolution, the big bang, abiogenesis or the word theory in a scientific context.

[jamiefhr]

There's no reason for you to be even pissed off at all. I study biology and I question a lot. I can't simply take things at face value because it came from a text book. I'm by no means any expert in any field but I don't spew trash when I talk. Anybody else could be pissed of you can only see one side of the coin.

[Mafiaaffe]

You study biology but you dont know what a mutation is nor what the word the word theory means? Nor cant you explain what evolution is? Don´t bullshit me.

"Since evolution has nothing to do with how life originated, then perhaps the big bang theory is probably false because it would have to evolve from something."

Evolution has less then NOTHING to do with astronomy. I only heard one person before spewing this anti-scientific nonsense arround - Kent Hovind.

[jamiefhr]

I understand the concept of mutations and the concept of evolution. Perhaps I don't walk around with a dictionary at all times but it doesn't mean jack because anyone can come up with definitions to suit their cause. Every author comes up with a different definition. Perhaps you should read more journal articles to find out.

[Mafiaaffe]

"Every author comes up with a different definition."

The only time you find some variation is when you look at creationistic websites or articles because these people have not the tinniest little idea what evolution is about. So they just make up their own definition. Evolution is the change in the genetic material of a population from one generation to the next. This is how evolution works by small changes. I ll give you a dollar for every biologist you find that says something else.

[Mafiaaffe]

I am not trying to force evolution on you but i found your disbelive is moslty founded in your misunderstanding. I don´t want you to go out this conversation and say hey i accept evolution. I want you to open up a biology book carefully study the facts and then make up your own mind. The think is i never met a person really understanding evolution but rejecting it.

[jamiefhr]

What's the point in quoting another creationist with his own theory. I don't subscribe to his beliefs. Do you?

[jamiefhr]

I think we should just leave it at that. You're implying that I must be convinced otherwise. I'm saying the evidence isn't compelling enough. No point forcing the evolutionary theory anymore. There's a lot more to be studied about this earth before jumping to conclusions. Keep an open mind.

[Mafiaaffe]

You have access to the greatest source of knowlegde humanity has ever know. Yet you have you entire "understanding" of this natural world from a bronze age mythology book written by primitive people and thats just sad.

[jamiefhr]

The book was written by man and then translated into English. We all know that meanings are lost in translation. Moreover, errors do occur in recording history. It is not perfect admittedly. However, understanding of this natural world is not all from a book. There's more to it. It is neither purely evolution in my opinion.

[Mafiaaffe]

"We all know that meanings are lost in translation" right so it could be much more ridiculous in its original language.

"The RNA replication didn't have conclusive findings to support Darwinian theory."

no because evolution has NOTHING to do with how life originated. It explains what happend after life was already here.

[jamiefhr]

There's no point in you ridiculing a book. It's a piece of history. Just as a product of evolution decided to erase an entire race with Hitler.

Since evolution has nothing to do with how life originated, then perhaps the big bang theory is probably false because it would have to evolve from something. BTW are you're arguing on the basis that because you can find examples of a lineage of fossils, evolution must have occurred?

[Mafiaaffe]

Every mechanims of evolution has been directly observed an i can give you at least one example for all mechanisms. It´s a observed that populations change over time therefor evolution is a fact. Again your making arguments of ignorance this is intellectually dishonest.

[Mafiaaffe]

Guys, like you are the exact reason why i have problems with religous people. Everybody can belive whatever they want in their privacy i will not jugde it. But when you go out and try to argue about science but dont even understand anything about biology, astronomy, physics or the scientific terminology its unbelievable arrogant to make any statements about this subject at all.

[jamiefhr]

"Guys, like you are the exact reason why i have problems with religous people. " - ad hominem. save it pls. I've never pushed my beliefs on anyone. Science is still really in its infancy. All I'm saying is that till science gets more proof I don't think I'm yet convinced enough. Arrogance is when you think you know too much. I'm still learning more but I haven't made that conclusion yet.

[jamiefhr]

I'm just glad that Newton dreamt of gravity and have found ways to measure and quantify it. Are we moving backwards if we leave it to "random chance" that we came about and not look to other more plausible theories as in intelligent design? By virtue of the probability, I think having the DNA sequence mapped out is highly unlikely even if you have billions of light years involved. The mathematical probability is just so so small.

[Mafiaaffe]

"Newton dreamt of gravity" The "legend" says the newton layed under an appel tree and thought to hisself why does the appel actually fell down and not up. I dont really think its happend that way but nice story nevertheless.

"have found ways to measure"

Nope. He defined it.

"theories as in intelligent design?"

ID is not a theory it doesnt even qualify as a hypothesis it creationism in a lab coat. While the phenomena of evolution is a fact.

[jamiefhr]

Modern day science is merely 200 years old. If billions of years of existence can be explained in just these 200 years of science. It would be highfalutin to make such remarks.

[Mafiaaffe]

Nah, i am not saying everything can be explained but we know many thinks. We know for example that the big bang happend but we dont know yet what caused it. Its almost the same in biology we know that evolution happens and we know its happening since billions of years. We dont know exactly how the first cells came into being but we are making a great progess here for example did we manage to create the first self-replicating molecules at the beginning of the year.

[Mafiaaffe]

The problem many people have with evolution is that they dont really understand it. Many people think that evolution means a spezies gives birth to a complete differend spezies but thats utterly wrong. Evolution works in very gradual changes. However the phenoneman of evolution is an accepted fact among scientist world wide and the theory of evolution explain it. Its the same think with gravity, cells, atoms, plate tectonics... all these thinks are facts and the theorys explain them.

[jamiefhr]

Evolution is a theory that tries to link every possible life source from the same molecule that decided to "come alive" for rather no purpose. Perhaps computer models should put it to a test because none have proven that random mutations can evolve into a cellular form. I'd give it a few more years or lifetimes for the scientists to prove it before i jump into the evolutionist camp. all those theories are based on assumptions as well. evidence can also be misrepresented in confirmation bias

[Mafiaaffe]

"Evolution is a theory"

A SCIENTIFIC theory= An explantion for a set of facts. You know life gravity, general relativity, plate techtonics, atoms, cells, germs or the heliocentric theory the one that says that the sun is the center of the solar system.

[Mafiaaffe]

"molecule that decided to "come alive""

*facepalm*

"Perhaps computer models should put it to a test because none have proven that random mutations"

we have tested observe thouthand of mutations and we have also created computer models. Problems you dont have any idea what a mutation even what makes this your 4th argument of ignorance.

[nordhorny]

@jamiefhr "Evolution is a theory that tries to link every possible life source from the same molecule that decided to "come alive" for rather no purpose. ...I'd give it a few more years or lifetimes for the scientists to prove it before i jump into the evolutionist camp. all those theories are based on assumptions as well. evidence can also be misrepresented in confirmation bias"

Should you wish to take me up on it, I would like to point out how every aspect of your statement is incorrect..

[jamiefhr]

How do you even know the big bang happened? That's merely a theory because there is no evidence for it. Biology exists because we created it as a form of study with our "highly evolved" brain capacities. However, the limits of our mental capacities that inhibit us from further thought. To believe in a big explosion for rather no reason to believe it a cloud of gas should have existed seems simplistic for a scientist to form his argument upon. It shows limited capacity to think beyond the "bang"

[Mafiaaffe]

"How do you even know the big bang happened?"

that is exactly your problem you dont look for the evidence. We know it because of thinks like redshift, thinks like the cosmic microwave background, the fact that everything in the universe drifts away from one point in time and space.

"merely a theory "

and again a theory is the highest form of prove you can get in science its an explanation for a set of fact therefor i can not be a fact. Its like saying its just a book not a word.

[Mafiaaffe]

"The mathematical probability is just so so small."

Creationist and probabilities.

You are correct that the chance that we are here(humans) is incredible small but the fact that something is here(lifeforms) is incredible high. Just because evolution does not have goal does not mean it is random. And how about the probability for an invisble, allpowerfull, allknowing, magic man to just poff out of nowhere?

[jamiefhr]

It´s like saying: "If you can not appropriately measure the farts of the invisible squirrel in my bathroom with the right intstruments means it does not exist?"

- strawman argument.

[Mafiaaffe]

"strawman argument."

its not a strawman. I am not misrepresenting your position. I dont have any evidence for my story neither have you any evidence for your story. So the point i am making is that there is nothing that makes it more probable to be true.

[jamiefhr]

it was a blatant misrepresentation by coming up with an alternate scenario and lambasting it shamelessly. i never talked about squirrel and farts. neither should u.

[jamiefhr]

You should be basing your argument on mathematical probabilities instead of leaning on theories of an allpowerful, allrandom, magic powderpuff to produce a human of intelligence. try coming up with a mathematical solution to the formation of dna and how it could have formed. that'd be a great start.

[Mafiaaffe]

"basing your argument on mathematical probabilities" like the probabilitie for an invisble allpower full magic man to puff out of nowhere? I rather base my arguments on objective evidence.

"allpowerful, allrandom, magic powderpuff"

Nice another christian hypocrite. Evolution is not allpowerfull, not random nor has anything to do with magic. It´s an observed phenomena like gravity. Making an argument of ignorance is intellectually dishonest.

[jamiefhr]

Yet science is unable to explain the reason for existence of phenoma such as gravity in the first place. It exists, but for what reason? Why has it been set in such strict rules that cannot be manipulated by man? I'm questioning science honestly, but if science turns angry because it cannot answer these questions then I'm still left none wiser because it chooses to accept its existence by virtue of its presence.

[Mafiaaffe]

"unable to explain the reason for existence of phenoma such as gravity in the first place"

why you assume there is a reason?

and what you think is the reason for "gods existence"?

"Why has it been set in such strict rules"

What a ridiculous question. Do you even understand what a force is?

"science turns angry because"

why some people not only scientist(lets say men of reason), turn angry is because creationist do anything for retarding people in the name of bronze age mythologiy.

[Mafiaaffe]

"solution to the formation of dna and how it could have formed."

We have already created RNA in labs we know pretty well how this could have formed.

[jamiefhr]

The RNA replication didn't have conclusive findings to support Darwinian theory. It was hacked rna that replicated with mutations. Sounds very similar to tumour growth or viral replication. It could shed light on evolution but there is currently no link at all.

[jamiefhr]

Does anyone here think that man's limitations are such? If you cannot appropriately measure a "force" with the right instruments means it does not exist?

[Mafiaaffe]

"If you cannot appropriately measure a "force" with the right instruments means it? does not exist?" No, but if there no evidence and no reason to even assume it exists, why would anyone belive there is such a force? It´s like saying: "If you can not appropriately measure the farts of the invisible squirrel in my bathroom with the right intstruments means it does not exist?"

[DanRaccoon]

troll.

[ashburnhouse]

The smartest guys I have ever heard.

[AutodidacticPhd]

It's funny, but I think Dawkins is right on top of something at 5:20, but gets it upside down. It isn't that people want to believe in religion even though it is a lie, but that they emphatically don't want to believe the absence of it.

It's almost the reverse of the grass is greener. Having had a belief that is so comforting, they look to the other side and don't see their familiar guardian. So even if they realize the one they do have is just a puppet, its still better than nothing.

[DELPHIIII]

This specific portion of the conversation had a profound impact on me.. ive rewatched it several times and i can honsestly say i have a new.. sense.. of mortality after watching these 2 brilliant men

[gotaiwo]

great interview.

most people do only realize 1/3 of their true potential; imagine what would happen if they were immortal

[BaileysBeads]

Would drop down to zero I guess :D

[Hunkola]

After watching this, you get the visceral sense these are two of the brightest men on the face of the Earth.......an intellectual breath of fresh air for our minds so welcome after the sickening Bible-thumping propaganda from morons like George W. Bush and Tony Blair!

[Puggle1607]

Aubrey is a legend. He was my lecturer at Edinburgh, and he is exactly as he seems in the video. An incredibly insightful and eloquent man, he speaks with the clarity I would be proud to have written after several drafts.

[tokotokotoko3]

ButtercupVanilla: Hm, why dont you answer

outriders question? What is untruthful? And of what are they ignorant of?

If your only point is that they should not sit and talk to each other: How about you go and stop sex tourism instead of writing comments? How are you better then?

[KrisKrafft]

ButtercupVanilla, I think it's rather obvious you have no idea what you're talking about or you're just trying to get a rise out of people here.

Aubrey Manning has held many jobs throughout his life, including being a zoologist, writer, and broadcaster. Since when do these things not constitute work?

Dawkins has divided his time between writing, being an evolutionary biologist, and giving numerous lectures every year.

Please research before posting.

[outrider52]

"ignorant old buffoons" wrong

"video with no truth in it" what's untruthful?

clearly you have no clue who either of these people are. They have an opinion. They know what it's like to really know something. You clearly don't.

[woodsay7]

Not really an important comment but Aubrey Manning seems like a really good guy.

[KSIAxeMan24]

We are the lucky ones to die because we have had such a interesting glimpse at nature while others have not even had the chance. I suppose even though I'd find the meaning of life to resemble "eat, sleep, drink, and fornicate" down to the instinctual level. I would say for me the chance to have lived and discover however, profoundly echoes my appreciation for being alive. I guess life has no "meanings" really but ways to appreciate it. If you have anything interesting to say please reply.

[RhondaH]

The meanings you give your life can be very profound. Meanings of Life come from within you. What if any impact on the world do you desire to have? What joy can you have and bring to others? That's my take on it. Much nicer than having someone tell you what your life means. I just get such a great thrill learning about reality. Great stuff.

[crawnwax]

does it bother you that on a fumdamental level science can not prove that reality exists at all - because of restrictions in the the human brain?

[jpkallas]

That's a good way to look at it. 100 people could have 100 different meanings for life.

[Hardy44500]

I love science and rationale thought. These two scientist are so gentle and interesting too

[BeauLeeman]

Manning: "Death is, I find, a rather wretched prospect .. the dissapointment, the feeling that you'll no longer be in touch with this wonderful world."

Dawkins then asserts, "That makes me want to make the most of it, while I'm here." Manning murmers "Carpe diem", or ~ 'let's make the most of it'...

What Dawkins denies, but I suspect that Manning secretly embraces, is the thot of subsisting after passing.

S. J. Gould could well be tussling with, "If I could only get a message to Richard ... "

[irishmauddib]

Not sure what you mean. Can you clarify? There is no evidence of life after death so there is nothing to deny. So not sure where you are coming from with this at all.

[websnarf]

Manning is expressing one reaction to how people *FEEL* about death; namely that they don't want it because their ability to experience life will be cut off. Dawkins responds with the obvious retort that we are lucky to have been given our finite lives to begin with.

I don't know what S.J.Gould would like to add to the subject but I doubt it would be relevant.

If I were to add something its that we live on in the *MEMORIES* of those that survive us.

[RhondaH]

S.J. Gould is dead so I fail to see what he could possibly add now as he no longer exists. He work survives him and memories people may have of him survive but I do not think he has any thoughts on anything any longer.

[bobinmass]

BeauLeeman puts unattributed thoughts into Manning's, Dawkins' and Gould's minds and then tries to pass them as real.

This is just nonsense. If you want to say something, just say it, do not try to pass off your thoughts as belonging to others.

Oh, an by the way, I think you are 100% wrong.

[andr0oS]

These guys have to be the coolest people on the planet. First time I've heard of Aubrey Manning though, I think I'll look into some of his stuff.

[swinkyuk]

He's had several TV series in the UK, usually about geology strangely enough.

[sylviabombs15]

this aubrey is a pretty cool dude...

this is the first time i've heard hime speak, and so far, impressed. He seems like gentle old man who has an undying passion for the natural world and science. and he enjoys every minute of his life.

And he seems to still have very good cognitive/reasoning skills at his age.

I hope im as sharpe as he is when I get to be his age.

Dawkins and Harris FTW!

yay sam

boo religion

[rasalghul5555]

I love to listen to Prof Dawkins talk. Thanks

[NuroXS]

collect teh seven dragon balls and wish for immortality.

[rcarass1]

haha xD

[petfoodonly]

hurry up with 5/5! lol

Thanks for uploading. It's nice to listen in on these kinds of chats.