Nice playing, very Kathish at times BUT, also a bit over the top at times as well in exercise mode - which was not Kath ; Kath was constantly striving to drive the groove, but with HIS feel, in his way.
@floydgenesisnut Wait a minute let me get this straight Danny Seraphine a 20 year member at the time. Was voted out by Champlin who had only been their for 8 years and Jason Scheff who had only been there for 4 years. Who do the fuck they think they are not only that why didnt the original other 4 members tell Bill and Jason to fuck right off?????
Arguably the best live version of 25 or 6 to 4. Although there's no Kath, Pinnick is ridiculous on guitar here and no incarnation of the band ever sounded this energized on this tune. The key here is Danny Seraphine's drumming. He is propelling these guys on his back like a sleek jet. Check any video of Chicago playing any song since Danny "left" and difference is night and day. They've been sounding more and more like a lounge act since 1990 when Danny was no longer behind the kit.
Thanks for the info I' ll try to get this book in Canada....IIf not I' ll see on E-Bay...Glad to see there is so many Chicago fans , who still care about them.....Also glad to see that Danny and Peter are still doin' what they do best ( Peter with his solo career and Danny with CTA....)
Sorry about the confusion but when I said " He's doin' solo shows....So maybe what he refuses to Peter his doin' it for himself.....He came out with the first solo album as a member of the group.... " I was talking about Bobby Lamm......Not Peter Cetera....
Hi there. I know that Robert Lamm made his first move on a solo album....I meant that Peter was the first to leave the band to make a solo career...But again so many stories about it.....But I do agree with you....Bobby was first....I used to own his album in LP.....I was a real fan then...after the departure ( Lay off ) of Danny I stopped listening to them.....
@ellocoman440 Hey...Read the book ' Feelin' Stronger Everyday,' by Ben Strong. it's a good read and Kiki Ebsen(sp?) goes into a little background @ what happened w/Danny. I 've always thought RL was the quiet glue that held the Band together. Walt's the ' Gentle Giant,' but Bobby's has always been the diplomat. And he and Peter were brother-in laws for a time there so their daughters are first cousins. Think that's why he's never said anything himself@ the Cetera situation IMHO.
@tornmask Also there's a periodic special on 'Chicago: Behind the Music,' that is on @ VH1 from time to time and Danny, Kath's widow, Camelia,the 4 original members plus Scheff,Champlin,Imboden and Howland give individual/various opinions.Only Cetera refused to be interviewed; would not allow any material he'd written to be used for the show either...great interviews as well w/James William Guercio&Clive Davis of CBS Records.Terrific early footage.So either it's a good clue or I'm clueless! LOL
@libralady1010 : yeah, i remember when it aired on VH1 years ago, though i wish Pete Cetera would have accepted the interview, it would've made a big difference filling in the missing puzzles! =ol
@tornmask Yes I don't understand why he didn't do that. He himself said he spent 18 tears w/them and most of it was a happy time. Plus as stated previously Bobby's and PC's daughters are first cousins. What would it have hurt to be part of a show/documentary and give your point of view PC.
This is an awesome performance by all, especially Peter. You can see how into this perfomance he is, with his GQ look. Peter ROCKS here....!! Pinnick's solo here is excellent, too..........The only thing that could make this video better would be having Terry back, nothing else.
No wonder why Lamm said once that the others were all idiots ( maybe it Wasn't such a joke after all.....)....Thanks for the infos.....Now I understand a lot more the story behind the Myth......A lot of people blamed Peter for his departure....But anybody, would have done the same thing, especially when you have that kind of talent....Thanks Floyds.....I love Genesis too. Another Great band.
I never saw that article with Danny. And again the thing about Peter, I never heard before but in this case...Talking about, bad band decisions...So the two other clowns kind of run the band .....
Scheff is a lousy singer. Champlin never done much good to the band anyway. So he co-wrote for E.W.F and others but any great hits with Chicago.... Not as good as Peter brought in....Robert don't do much eather.....They are on a downhill curve...Now they have to team up with other band to sale tickets ( E.W.F , Doobies, etc......). They should retire before the name of Chicago get too dirty
Hi there Floydgenesisnut....I never heard that story before....But I always felt that the two were behind it all, for Danny replacement...Shame on them....They got another good drummer but they never got the Soul that Danny has.......
Actually, he was fired in the spring of '90 for "losing his chops", which is what the band's line was and which is very hard to believe. Danny indicates that his direct involvement in band management had Champlin and Scheff at odds with him, and they foreced the originals to kick him out. Since Chicago sounds nothing like this anymore, it is apparent that when the great Danny Seraphine left Chicago, their sound and live performances suffered tremendously.
Man that Pinnick guy is SOOOO much better than that first guy - Dacus. I am sure he is a good player but he just didn't fit with Chicago and putting him in after the never imitated awesome Terry Kath was just painful to watch. This guy is good though. As long as Peter was there, s'all good. Claire was adorable too...
If Van Halen can get back together (Dave & Eddie, Alex & Wolfie), there's no reason why Peter Cetera & Chicago could't bury the hatchet & rock once again.. Neither Chicago or Peter Cetera have been the same since the split... Hey Peter pick up the phone & call Robert Lamm & company..
But I think that Chicago has done less and Peter did hit the charts more often then them after.....But also Lamm should be the one calling .....I know is not an idiot. But they are killing the name of Chicago, maybe that's what they want....He's doin' solo shows....So maybe what he refuses to Peter his doin' it for himself.....He came out with the first solo album as a member of the group....
@ellocoman440 Sorry but Robert Lamm came out with ' Skinny Boy" in the early 1970's as a solo album that the late great Terry Kath played on...so he was the first to do a solo album, not Peter.
@ellocoman440 -Robert Lamm was the first to come out w/a solo album in the early 1970's called ' Skinny Boy,' not Peter. Kath played on RL's solo album and i believe he was the ONLY one from the group to play on it.
I have read or heard him say that when he first started he always used a pick and that he always kept one on the neck. I think he does diff for diff songs... the best bassist ever...
@Riddler95 : One interesting note that popped up in Positive Listening Radio's interview with their producer Jimmy Guercio: A lot of the reason for pick playing was actually Guercio's influence because of how he wanted to record CTA. Apparently Peter wanted to record that album with fingers and thumbs, while Guercio thought the recording would sound better with a pick. The rest is history.
@Riddler95 He'd mix it up, based upon what the song called for. He leaned towards pick. This extends back to CTA when Guercio pushed him to record CTA's basslines with a pick in order to get a particular recorded sound (Cetera wanted to play the album with fingers originally)
you know what ive just realized...of all the guitar players chicago has had ive never seen anyone else use a wah-wah pedal on a "25 or 6 to 4" solo besides terry, but then again terry owned with a wah-wah pedal
I think that You have Chicago at it's best here.... Never saw that one before, and what a performance from Chris Pinnick....Nice licks, very easy job for him....Peter Cetera and Dany Seraphine ( Who even Buddy Rich mention that he liked him as a drummer....Search him, saying that about any other drummers.....Rare...) They were the best. I'm with you guys, any reunion with these guys I'll go see the Band. But now I wouldn't pay a dime to see them....And I used to be a great fan of Chicago(THEN).
Excellent. What a clean, sharp guitarist Pinnick was. Do like Keith Howland's take, though: starts out with an homage to Kath's chilling start, then launches off into his own riffs.
I saw part of this tour and to say that they rocked is an understatement. I have seen them since peter has left and it isnt the same. A reunion would be so huge for all of the fans. Bring back Danny and Peter and rock once again
A year-and-a-half later, Cetera would be gone. I don't think Danny's hair looks any thinner here than five years earlier....but it wouldn't be too long after this that he began his toupee phase. Champlin still has his beard, but it, too, would be gone within 1 1/2 years. Cetera looks almost too thin here....a bit anorexic in a "glam" sort of way.
I love that this concert continues to have a very 'pumped up' bass line. If it was intentional, it was a great mistake! This is Peter. Peter can rock. Rock, Peter, rock!
This right here, and Cetera, have inspired me to pick up and learn bass. Rock on!
WHATTA CLIP - best I've seen of 25 or 6 to 4 since they're so into the vibe!!! I wish it (along with others posted by Juan) was embedded so i could whack it on my Myspace grr
Yeah, that's Pinnick. And he is good here, and on Sweet Marie. He's so much better than any of the guitarists who followed. Nice round tone, good sense of the blues--none of the insipid metal licks you get from DP and the new guy. Not much of a stage personality. But still. Must have been band politics. Thanks for the post. Even though they're past their prime here, they had some good moments in this show.
Cetera thinks he's Sting.
cranie4 2 months ago
@cranie4 what?
amywynn217 1 month ago
Nice playing, very Kathish at times BUT, also a bit over the top at times as well in exercise mode - which was not Kath ; Kath was constantly striving to drive the groove, but with HIS feel, in his way.
charvelguy 5 months ago
At least Chris Pinnick kept it close to what Terry Kath did in his heyday.
jnadle1 9 months ago
I wish the guitar player had , at least listened to the original version ,,,, I dont think he was playing the same song ......he sucks
dynodon1000 1 year ago
@dynodon1000
Are you on smack? Chris Pinnick is a brilliant guitarist. Have fun cranking up your Wiggles CDs you boob.
Chudbeagle 1 year ago
@Chudbeagle LMAO
amywynn217 1 month ago
@floydgenesisnut Wait a minute let me get this straight Danny Seraphine a 20 year member at the time. Was voted out by Champlin who had only been their for 8 years and Jason Scheff who had only been there for 4 years. Who do the fuck they think they are not only that why didnt the original other 4 members tell Bill and Jason to fuck right off?????
TheBeaugraham 1 year ago 2
@TheBeaugraham : ur darn right! xo[
tornmask 1 year ago
Arguably the best live version of 25 or 6 to 4. Although there's no Kath, Pinnick is ridiculous on guitar here and no incarnation of the band ever sounded this energized on this tune. The key here is Danny Seraphine's drumming. He is propelling these guys on his back like a sleek jet. Check any video of Chicago playing any song since Danny "left" and difference is night and day. They've been sounding more and more like a lounge act since 1990 when Danny was no longer behind the kit.
luke3jes 1 year ago 2
@luke3jes : i miss the CHCAGO's rhythm section, (replacement guitarist) Chirs P, Danny S. & Peter C. & of course the late great TERRY KATH! =0l
tornmask 1 year ago
Son. These guys sound better live. Can't say the same for most groups. I'd like to see puff daddy, jay z or any of those idiot rappers top this.
bevera 1 year ago
So Sorry that the first I didn't get to see Chicago live until 18, so I never got to see them with Peter.
80smusicfan11 1 year ago
Chirs Pennick on guitar. Cetera sacrificing his child to the rock gods. haha
PS: good version of the song. Is ther ever a bad one? haha...NOPE...
drdave25 1 year ago
Wow Mr. Cetera's voice is other worldly! Amazing talent!
ericelectric 1 year ago 2
Thanks for the info I' ll try to get this book in Canada....IIf not I' ll see on E-Bay...Glad to see there is so many Chicago fans , who still care about them.....Also glad to see that Danny and Peter are still doin' what they do best ( Peter with his solo career and Danny with CTA....)
ellocoman440 1 year ago
Sorry about the confusion but when I said " He's doin' solo shows....So maybe what he refuses to Peter his doin' it for himself.....He came out with the first solo album as a member of the group.... " I was talking about Bobby Lamm......Not Peter Cetera....
ellocoman440 1 year ago
Hi there. I know that Robert Lamm made his first move on a solo album....I meant that Peter was the first to leave the band to make a solo career...But again so many stories about it.....But I do agree with you....Bobby was first....I used to own his album in LP.....I was a real fan then...after the departure ( Lay off ) of Danny I stopped listening to them.....
ellocoman440 1 year ago
@ellocoman440 Hey...Read the book ' Feelin' Stronger Everyday,' by Ben Strong. it's a good read and Kiki Ebsen(sp?) goes into a little background @ what happened w/Danny. I 've always thought RL was the quiet glue that held the Band together. Walt's the ' Gentle Giant,' but Bobby's has always been the diplomat. And he and Peter were brother-in laws for a time there so their daughters are first cousins. Think that's why he's never said anything himself@ the Cetera situation IMHO.
libralady1010 1 year ago
@libralady1010 : good clue! =ol
tornmask 1 year ago
@tornmask Also there's a periodic special on 'Chicago: Behind the Music,' that is on @ VH1 from time to time and Danny, Kath's widow, Camelia,the 4 original members plus Scheff,Champlin,Imboden and Howland give individual/various opinions.Only Cetera refused to be interviewed; would not allow any material he'd written to be used for the show either...great interviews as well w/James William Guercio&Clive Davis of CBS Records.Terrific early footage.So either it's a good clue or I'm clueless! LOL
libralady1010 1 year ago
@libralady1010 : yeah, i remember when it aired on VH1 years ago, though i wish Pete Cetera would have accepted the interview, it would've made a big difference filling in the missing puzzles! =ol
tornmask 1 year ago
@tornmask Yes I don't understand why he didn't do that. He himself said he spent 18 tears w/them and most of it was a happy time. Plus as stated previously Bobby's and PC's daughters are first cousins. What would it have hurt to be part of a show/documentary and give your point of view PC.
libralady1010 1 year ago
@libralady1010 : i find that very strange... =o\
tornmask 1 year ago
great song.love chicago.from norway
tiram45 2 years ago
This is an awesome performance by all, especially Peter. You can see how into this perfomance he is, with his GQ look. Peter ROCKS here....!! Pinnick's solo here is excellent, too..........The only thing that could make this video better would be having Terry back, nothing else.
ceterababe 2 years ago
No wonder why Lamm said once that the others were all idiots ( maybe it Wasn't such a joke after all.....)....Thanks for the infos.....Now I understand a lot more the story behind the Myth......A lot of people blamed Peter for his departure....But anybody, would have done the same thing, especially when you have that kind of talent....Thanks Floyds.....I love Genesis too. Another Great band.
ellocoman440 2 years ago
I never saw that article with Danny. And again the thing about Peter, I never heard before but in this case...Talking about, bad band decisions...So the two other clowns kind of run the band .....
ellocoman440 2 years ago
Scheff is a lousy singer. Champlin never done much good to the band anyway. So he co-wrote for E.W.F and others but any great hits with Chicago.... Not as good as Peter brought in....Robert don't do much eather.....They are on a downhill curve...Now they have to team up with other band to sale tickets ( E.W.F , Doobies, etc......). They should retire before the name of Chicago get too dirty
ellocoman440 2 years ago
Hi there Floydgenesisnut....I never heard that story before....But I always felt that the two were behind it all, for Danny replacement...Shame on them....They got another good drummer but they never got the Soul that Danny has.......
ellocoman440 2 years ago 2
Living in East LA, as a chicano, this group and a few others kinda defined the neighborhood:)
eloperez78 2 years ago
Sure miss Terry.
skipper8257 2 years ago
Pinnick didnt sing, thats why he was let go.
kincher23 2 years ago
Terry Kath was the best
pacmannick 2 years ago
never understood why they let pinnick go
SexualAtrocity 2 years ago
Pinnick left Chicago.
Riddler95 2 years ago
Great band, too bad about the way they screwed over drummer Danny Seraphine
leodragonfire 2 years ago
Danny Seraphine is one of the great drummers.
It's actually interesting, Danny Seraphine left the band because he could not commit to the touring schedule. Exact same reason as Peter Cetera.
Riddler95 2 years ago
Actually, he was fired in the spring of '90 for "losing his chops", which is what the band's line was and which is very hard to believe. Danny indicates that his direct involvement in band management had Champlin and Scheff at odds with him, and they foreced the originals to kick him out. Since Chicago sounds nothing like this anymore, it is apparent that when the great Danny Seraphine left Chicago, their sound and live performances suffered tremendously.
luke3jes 2 years ago 2
Yeah your right.
Chicago's sound and live performances really does suffer nowadays with all of these replacement members they have.
Chicago has really never been the same since Peter Cetera left in 1985.
Riddler95 2 years ago
VERY WELL PUT....................
rockinjeffrey 2 years ago
Comment removed
soundlikeFabian 3 years ago
Uh.......no.
luke3jes 2 years ago
Uh yes my friend...
soundlikeFabian 2 years ago
God...they miss Dacus badly here. The 1979 version was a hundred times better.
CainPerrySchon 3 years ago
I'm surprised he'd bring his daughter Claire onstage when she was just a little baby surrounded by all that racket and crowds.
5177845 3 years ago
Comment removed
HyacinthBoo 3 years ago
Gotta love a man who loves his kids!!!
HyacinthBoo 3 years ago 3
Man that Pinnick guy is SOOOO much better than that first guy - Dacus. I am sure he is a good player but he just didn't fit with Chicago and putting him in after the never imitated awesome Terry Kath was just painful to watch. This guy is good though. As long as Peter was there, s'all good. Claire was adorable too...
LeslieDesigner 3 years ago 4
The feed is bad otherwise, great video!! Great Band!!!!
okpatriot 3 years ago
If Van Halen can get back together (Dave & Eddie, Alex & Wolfie), there's no reason why Peter Cetera & Chicago could't bury the hatchet & rock once again.. Neither Chicago or Peter Cetera have been the same since the split... Hey Peter pick up the phone & call Robert Lamm & company..
CFKMAN 3 years ago
I kind of agree on parts of your comment.
But I think that Chicago has done less and Peter did hit the charts more often then them after.....But also Lamm should be the one calling .....I know is not an idiot. But they are killing the name of Chicago, maybe that's what they want....He's doin' solo shows....So maybe what he refuses to Peter his doin' it for himself.....He came out with the first solo album as a member of the group....
ellocoman440 2 years ago
@ellocoman440 Sorry but Robert Lamm came out with ' Skinny Boy" in the early 1970's as a solo album that the late great Terry Kath played on...so he was the first to do a solo album, not Peter.
libralady1010 1 year ago
@ellocoman440 -Robert Lamm was the first to come out w/a solo album in the early 1970's called ' Skinny Boy,' not Peter. Kath played on RL's solo album and i believe he was the ONLY one from the group to play on it.
libralady1010 1 year ago
the guitar solo was so different from Kath's, but still pretty awesome.
great performance
TikkerLoS 3 years ago 6
did Cetera play bass with his fingers or a bass pick ?
Riddler95 3 years ago 2
You can see him play with a bass pick in this video and with his fingers in the "Saturday in the Park" video from Australia 1979 concert.
juantoletemex 3 years ago
I have read or heard him say that when he first started he always used a pick and that he always kept one on the neck. I think he does diff for diff songs... the best bassist ever...
LeslieDesigner 3 years ago 3
@Riddler95 : Peter played with both ..but more with the pick! =o]
tornmask 1 year ago
@Riddler95 : One interesting note that popped up in Positive Listening Radio's interview with their producer Jimmy Guercio: A lot of the reason for pick playing was actually Guercio's influence because of how he wanted to record CTA. Apparently Peter wanted to record that album with fingers and thumbs, while Guercio thought the recording would sound better with a pick. The rest is history.
DracIsBack 1 year ago
@Riddler95 He'd mix it up, based upon what the song called for. He leaned towards pick. This extends back to CTA when Guercio pushed him to record CTA's basslines with a pick in order to get a particular recorded sound (Cetera wanted to play the album with fingers originally)
DracIsBack 3 months ago
Unbelievable gutar playing!!! Unbelievable solo.....has almost nothing to do with the song, but UNBELIEVABLE!!!!
srvtwo 3 years ago 3
CETERA SO AWESOME IN THIS !
Riddler95 3 years ago 5
you know what ive just realized...of all the guitar players chicago has had ive never seen anyone else use a wah-wah pedal on a "25 or 6 to 4" solo besides terry, but then again terry owned with a wah-wah pedal
ruffan 4 years ago
Pete Cetera sings this version with so little effort. He was at the top of his game on this tour.
ibjamin5 4 years ago 8
I think that You have Chicago at it's best here.... Never saw that one before, and what a performance from Chris Pinnick....Nice licks, very easy job for him....Peter Cetera and Dany Seraphine ( Who even Buddy Rich mention that he liked him as a drummer....Search him, saying that about any other drummers.....Rare...) They were the best. I'm with you guys, any reunion with these guys I'll go see the Band. But now I wouldn't pay a dime to see them....And I used to be a great fan of Chicago(THEN).
ellocoman440 4 years ago
Great vocal performance by Cetera, and it is one of the best live versions I've heard.
ibjamin5 4 years ago 3
Peter Cetera leaves the band one year later...
Chicago band is nothing with out Peter...
Riddler95 4 years ago 3
Excellent. What a clean, sharp guitarist Pinnick was. Do like Keith Howland's take, though: starts out with an homage to Kath's chilling start, then launches off into his own riffs.
bibchr 4 years ago
I saw part of this tour and to say that they rocked is an understatement. I have seen them since peter has left and it isnt the same. A reunion would be so huge for all of the fans. Bring back Danny and Peter and rock once again
rtorento 4 years ago 4
you are definitely, Peter and Danny should come back and do a tour with Chicago.
Riddler95 4 years ago 3
It's up to Peter. If he ever says yes, then it's a go...
Elpdude 4 years ago 4
How about Rhino putting this concert out on DVD
rtorento 4 years ago 8
Chicago at their all-time best.
Danny Seraphine and Peter Cetera where they belong, and Chris Pinnick burnin' up with lightning fast lines.
As noted below, the best 25 or 6 to 4 version you'll find on YOUtube.
luke3jes 4 years ago 5
A year-and-a-half later, Cetera would be gone. I don't think Danny's hair looks any thinner here than five years earlier....but it wouldn't be too long after this that he began his toupee phase. Champlin still has his beard, but it, too, would be gone within 1 1/2 years. Cetera looks almost too thin here....a bit anorexic in a "glam" sort of way.
ChicagoNative 4 years ago
I love that this concert continues to have a very 'pumped up' bass line. If it was intentional, it was a great mistake! This is Peter. Peter can rock. Rock, Peter, rock!
This right here, and Cetera, have inspired me to pick up and learn bass. Rock on!
Proud Fan of Chicago 1969 thru 1984.
The 'Cetera' Era.
TheCeteraEra 4 years ago 4
WHATTA CLIP - best I've seen of 25 or 6 to 4 since they're so into the vibe!!! I wish it (along with others posted by Juan) was embedded so i could whack it on my Myspace grr
Stef89 4 years ago
Pinnick, for some reason reminds me of kath
ruffan 4 years ago 2
Yup....me too. He resembled Terry in looks more than any other guitarist the band had.
guncontrol2006 4 years ago
it's the hair and beard!
BigBoiJC 4 years ago
Everything from this concert is awesome. Thanks for the upload. What's with the baby at the end?
DOCTORxHOUSE 4 years ago 9
She is Peter's daughter, Claire.
juantoletemex 4 years ago 2
Yeah, that's Pinnick. And he is good here, and on Sweet Marie. He's so much better than any of the guitarists who followed. Nice round tone, good sense of the blues--none of the insipid metal licks you get from DP and the new guy. Not much of a stage personality. But still. Must have been band politics. Thanks for the post. Even though they're past their prime here, they had some good moments in this show.
scribbled309 4 years ago 5
DB, sorry.
scribbled309 4 years ago
Danny was losing his hair fast! Great video. Is that Chris Pinnick on the lead guitar? Great solo, I wonder why he didn't become one of the regulars?
mister2drums 4 years ago 2