Geo Thermal Heat pumps. Theory and operation from Sibley.

[MrEnergyCzar]

I converted my home to a net-zero solar powered home that uses no oil or gas without using a geothermal heat pump. The key for me was the heat pump hot water heater.....great video......

[Nabo00o]

Well I really don't believe in a system over 100% efficiency, just like I don't believe in a system below 100%. Every closed system (even though we know they do not exist in real life) will always be in a state of unity when we account for all of the energy going into and out of that system.

If you ask me the term COP is just a way of creating confusion, so that machines like heat pumps and others aren't reviled as what they really are: A system of processes which go against the first heat law.

[Nabo00o]

But I still agree with you oOoxelAoOo, heat pumps a awesome!

Also a great video!

[oOoxelAoOo]

Heat pumps are awesome, the reason they appear to be more than 100% efficient is because you get a bigger thermal energy difference than the electrical energy supplied to the compressor in the system. So technically you can't calculate their efficiency, but you get a performance factor instead.

Annoyingly if you switched this around and tried to make a heat engine, it wouldn't work :(

[Nabo00o]

What? Thermal difference is real energy, for example you could drive a Stirling engine on heat difference.

The total heat stays the same, yes, but the secret of heat pumps is that they actually reverse the heat law that causes heat to go from hot to cold. In a heat pump, for example in a cold climate, heat can be absorbed from the outside cold air into the hot inside air, with over 100% efficiency!

This whole concept of "moving heat" is just a farce used to distract the observant scientist.

[oOoxelAoOo]

In thermodynamics, thermal efficiency is defined as: what you want/what you pay for. So when you take something like a heat pump where you get more thermal energy transferred than the work put in to get that change. You'd get an efficiency greater than 1. The first and second laws of thermodynamics state that nothing can be 100% efficient so you have to call it a coefficient of performance.

[oOoxelAoOo]

You're right about heat engines working on the same principle, but the heat pump in the video is a vapour-compression device. Like you get in a refrigerator, only working in the other direction. If you removed the electric motor running the compressor and supplied heat to the system it wouldn't work as an engine, or at least wouldn't generate much useable work.

[daveschloemer]

I work for a company that puts about seventy geothermal units per year, mostly residential units. I must say, the guys did a good job but i would like to know what they charged to put that new heat exchanger in. I bet a new geothermal unit with ten year parts and labor warranty for around six grand after tax rebates and credits would sound better.

[NightFlyyer]

$1,100 including replacing one of the 3 pump motors. I just bought this house 3 years ago and it was supposed to be a working unit. I have had enough expenses fixing this place up, so replacing the whole thing did not seem like an option. If everything fails at once, I may do it.

[lfoldi]

and why is your backup heat coming on? your temperature is constant in the ground.......dont matter if its -50 outside, this is the pupose of going underground. if your not getting enough heat exchange to heat your house all winter it is because you are not getting heat transfer from your freon to your secondary. or your secondary is not transfering the temperature back in the ground

[NightFlyyer]

My backup heat doenst come on often. It was -27 degrees here last week and the Heat exchanger keeps the house cozy, but when you need to turn it up, the backup comes on in addition so they both run. Folks around here all have backup gas heaters. This was my first experience with the system, as I never had one in California, for sure. LOL

[lfoldi]

They said they found a leak. They were just gonna solder it. All of a sudden they are changing the heat exchanger? and you also said when they were gonna try to fix the leak that no other company would even attempt that? lol thats funny

[NightFlyyer]

Folks around here in the Midwest, seem more interested in taking time and trying to save people a few bucks or at least maybe get us by a while longer, and I had just moved here from California, where I lived 50 years in Orange county and it is much different attitudes. They tried and failed, so I had to buy a heat exchanger which was close to $1000 plus labor. I dont think it is that funny. I thought it was thoughtful to try.

[gsummer201]

Hey, Can you explain how it actually works, in the heat mode. your description led me to believe that you would explain how it works, not just video a service call.

How does 53 degree dirt heat your house to degree's in the winter?

also, I wonder how you got the rights to use Glen fry & the Eagles? Did you contact ASCAP or are you Friends of his from Royal Oak Michigan? Most people just illegally use music in their video's and don't bother to get the rights to legally use the music.

[NightFlyyer]

Im sorry your are upset that I didn't go into theory. It's very simply explained as a reversed a/c with a Thermal Heat exchanger.(see description) The vid is for use on their site, not to go into how things work. As far as Glen Frey goes, as long as Im not getting paid for using this video (I have no revenue sharing turned on) and since CMI has released this song's use (according to YT guidelines), I can use it. The recommend me to "Do nothing" in the copyrighted music prompts on my video page.

[willberg1]

Dont think of the ground temp, think of the refrigerant. It has a COLD and HOT side just like your AC system in your car. Run your AC unit and touch the first radiator "Condenser" it gets hot very quickly which would be used to heat your home. You need to get rid of the cold side to make more hot, which gets stucked into the ground.

[willberg1]

So the ground stays 55 degrees, your cold side warms up quickly..

[fuzzymonkey777]

You have had geo thermal heating/cooling for over 25 years? The thing has paid for itself by now then right? Could you say how much the initial installation cost and what is your monthly heating bill?

[NightFlyyer]

This unit is 25 years old, but I just bought this place about 3 years ago. It cost about $14,000 when new. They are cheaper now. I spend about $200 a month in the winter and some of that goes for Gas because the emergency heat comes on when the Geo thermal cant keep up when it is 25 below. They work in tandem. It cost me about $200 a month just to heat my garage in the winter, with Propane, so there is a big difference.

[KARStarla]

I would love to get the geo thermal, but I have no basement, and my land is rocky clay, to dig into that would cost a fortune.

[gtj126]

without any heat pumps

no geo equipment

a circulator and a ditch of about 7ft deep and 2ft wide and 250 ft long and damp clay

about 52 degrees

will support for over 2 weeks continuous

output of over 14000 BtuH ( =4.1/2kwh like an elect water heater)for under $ 2500.00 w/piping ~ 33-to-31 deg f.

just replaced a 1980 unit~~

[gtj126]

Schools are down to 8 kwh (icf buildings)

and the GT Earth Coupled Loop ECL

Heat Pumps

per Sq ft per School Year

in KY USA

with hydro-temp,com at under 2 (TWO)

KWH for all COOLING HEATING AND

Patented ON-Demand Hot Water

reclaims WHILE in COOLING

[americanhindi]

Great Video. The text helps. Great guys. Thanks.

[NightFlyyer]

Thanks kindly.

[gtJONgeo]

Chill ECL Earth Coupled Loops

= to

11 KW of heat removed by a compressor

add to electrical heat energy

the 4 KW for all of the TYPICAL "4.1/2 TON"

Geo-T HVAC unit in operation

(Hydro-Temp com AR 800-382-3112 since 1978)

FIND 15 kw heat produced, while chilling out 11kw

there is a 375% efficiency over 100% electrical requirement

[gtJONgeo]

And it is only about 50+ years in doing so~

you drink from a fountain water cooler--

you get chilled water--

you measure the heat coming out og that little cooler to be 3 x's more than the electricity plugged into it !!!

your SOLAR HEATED EARTH WATER has cooled by the amount of heat added to the electrical usage converted to the same heat to = the total output !

[gtJONgeo]

your SOLAR HEATED EARTH WATER has cooled by ~3/4 of the amount of TOTAL heat measured

when added with the electrical ~1/4 energy bought electrically

you get 1 part of HEAT that is 300% of that 1/4 part needed

TO MOVE AND CHILL the water and

then letting DESIGNED heat transfer from ~ 55 deg Earth jump into ~ 35 degree water circulation to be chilled again

[ravelgrane]

320% efficient? sounds like someone is math-challenged.

[NightFlyyer]

Right! That is 220 Percent more efficient than regular heaters! IT produces over 2 times more heat for less, than REGULAR heaters. Come on!

[gtj126]

did ya get your calculator out ?

the compressor does not make more than 25-30% of the heat, by compression from 4 kw to BTuH

( see bristolcompressors com ) h29j performance 20 suction and 100 discharge temps and related kw, add pump 200 watts and blower 500 varies)

[gtJONgeo]

only sentence challenged:

finishing the sentence--

4 kw of = blower + compressor + circulation

is commonly found on 320 to 375 % efficiencies

producing 13 to 15 actual kw of ? heat /

better said: HEAT MOVEMENT with ~ 11 kw from the EARTH in chilling the dirt

[gtj126]

now what happened to the GeoThermal Heat Pump blowing HOT AIR like me now,

?

We measure 13 to 15kw (50MBh), of heat output = total out !

AAAAhhhhh the fluid into the Earth Coupled Loop was CHILLED by 9 to 11 KW

Meaning the fluid FREELY delivered Earth Heat, MOVED (not made) by the compressor freon mass flow

[shanesbabie]

right on

[xxFSxxgang5ta1]

yo im from iowa to and damn is my house cold im trying to fix it rite now so i hope this could help

[NightFlyyer]

Hi. Give these guys a call, and tell them you saw the video. They will give you a deal.

[akaalgorithm]

Excelent job.

I too am in the HVAC feild and I thank you for helping folks understand this.

Although they are intimidating to service I wish most units were this type.

P.S... most ice machind=es use this type of cooling process since they are in very small housings.

[NightFlyyer]

Thank you, I appreciate your comments.

[cooldisel]

thanx alot for the info.. i never really understood how it works :)

thanx again :)

[dave2552000]

Nice video Mr. Herbert.....

[NightFlyyer]

Thank you kindly.

[EyeLouise]

I like your vids, 'cause I never know what to expect. This was very interesting and I learned a lot. Thanks for sharing at your own expense.