If you cut through the TZM bullshit and propaganda, the facts are quite clear - TZM is a club about talking. And making videos. That's what it's all about.
I went to their Teamspeak and actually met several people who were less about talking, more about doing. We tried to get some initiatives off the ground but WITHOUT EXCEPTION some brainless dogmatic TZM'er showed up and started making noise that this is not what TZM is about.
It's all about talking. Praising Fresco and the imaginary RBE :)
There's a series of videos made by dumb girls with heavy cake like make-up and blank expressions entitled 'Why I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement'. They're incapable of using their own words like an AA member who learn and recite cliches parrot fashion.
@tgt305 BOLLOCKS. You forgot to factor in compassion NOW, plus living off -grid NOW, plus the fact that Venus Prison is bank-owned claptrap distraction to stop you rebelling & to keep you trusting in their system, whist they encourage you via Freso and P.Joseph to get behind their desire to dismantle their present system for a far, far worse one. a 1 world bank with - 'tracking' -- you are the resouces
Respond to this video. FANTASTIC video, Venus Project people are sad parrots devoid of education or awareness. Pygmies have lived in a "RBE" egalitarian society for thousands of years without EVER needing central control of any kind. Their harmonious society only ever get's destroyed when IMF World bank sends loggers in to 'develop' their wonderful example of healthy living.
your point is good but i come from those worlds that u talk about, and i think that those part of the world need a lot more than some bullshit help. real solution or at least teach someone to think what could be better.
Also. Just a suggestion for anyone supporting the Zeitgeist Movement and VP: Please don't be angry when stating your claim and your opinions to other people, it only perpetuates the anger and we won't get anywhere because it'll just get senseless after a certain point.
To continue my message, we need a long term - really long term solution to our problems not these really short hand problems that's what Jacque is trying to show. Long term solutions take a long time to develop which Jacque spent his WHOLE LIFE working on. (Caps was for emphasis not for anger lol =D.)
I understand where you're coming from Brutus and it's a shame there are so many supporters of the Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project that bring with them, their angry attitudes, which in turn turn people like yourself angry. If you get this message, know that I don't want to get angry with you. Yes there are people who are fixing problems now, but it perpetuates the issues that we currently have we will continue to think that, this is how things just are which is not true
absolutely right there, mr. einstein. All those specific projects are doing right now much more specific things than VP. however, in your view no one should ever stop to think why is there even war and offer a solution. You do understand the difference between a band-aid on a symptom or an attemp to cure the disease?
@manodotiago We have heard it all before. Guess what? people can and do stop to think about the worlds problems without being sucked into a fantasy cult. I hope for a better world I really do. The point the video is making is that the so called "attempt to cure the disease" is all talk, while right now, there is someone out there applying the band aid. If they never lives would be lost, talking about symptoms is just taking the moral highground while actually doing fuck all about it
ok so, ive been fallowing the zeitgeistmovment, and i think its a good idea, i agree with your point of they, we, should do more, but we do also need to spread the word. i tried to check out your site and vid you linked, but i dont speak whatever language they are in, so i can not look into it, if you could find a link in english for me i will check it out.
aslo, did you ever think that maybe ppl could be part of both groups? from the small description in your vid it seams like it dose good stuff, and i think people can support both groups rather then choosing one side,kinda like when you get ice cream and in stead of only choosing vanilla or chocolate there is the option of the 2 swirled together.
@ BrutusCass What do you have against peace? Do you have something to lose? That you're not ready for is to change your own mentality. We live in a world full of hate, it is that many kind people have realized, and therefore would like to try to change this.
It is not a religious project, not a political project but a project to change the perception of life. One last question: What do you have against life?
agree with nselck.. if we developed an society that understood that we need to co-operate in order to prosper, and the inherent dangers of competition, then we wouldnt need to be "fighting" hunger and war victim problems... u have so much anger, towards a group that advocates a world of peace.. it's impossible to start a VP city while the current system is still in place.. from all the comments ive read, the only people who express hate are people against TVP and their cause..
What an argument. Comparing hospital builders to the venus project? "They built a hospital in Sudan, what did the venus project do?".. Seriously?!
Though its great that someone takes initiative on building hospitals and helping the needy,it still does not deal with the reason why the got their legs blown of in the first place.Imagine the people who placed the landmines had grown up in an enviroment with social stability, abundance and education. You wouldnt need a patch solution like that
@nselck Well what sort of argument are you making? The people involved in helping those who have had their legs blown off are indeed out there right now, helping. You come on and use the word imagine......
So let`s say a Venus Project city is greenlighted and built. What good does that do in the here and now for anyone but the people who live in it? All talk no action. If you want to change the world go and fucking do it and stop imagining
@nselck you used the key word for both TZM & TVP there...."imagine"
So while someone does take initiative and saves a life, what the fuck have you done? C`mon, you posted that comment 8 months ago pal. What have you done in that time to change the world for the better? I have raised over 30k for charity this year what have you done? Prick
@BrutusCass: Do you really think that the answer is that children in the 3rd world like to walk with prosthetic legs and patches all over their bodies. That's not help. Thats desperate measure to keep the bad situation barely tolerable for them. Ok thats a kind of help but their lives are still extremely intolerable. Venus Project wants to set those people free from things like that ever happen. They have rights to live like you in US or other non-third world countries . Why they have to suffer?
Thank you for the introduction to Emergency. I resonate with your concerns that people talk too much about the future and not do anything now. While I am a proponent of TZM and TVP, I am also a supporter of any movement that is creating change. Im currently organizing projects in the Philippines and then west coast Africa (Sierra Leon, Liberia) where there is much to do. I have friends in the States doing projects in urban cities as well as the impoverished rural areas. Continue the Great Work.
the ants was an example and no i don't want to be an ant, my point is that we have the technology to create robots that will work like ants since they are not individuals, like 200 years ago this kind of force labour was great but now the world is overpopulated and the hatred grow as well, because every nations have their cities closed with walls and not allow any other people,race or idea we are not a planetary people we are divided people on this planet and that was what i refer to ants colony
@KillorbeDeath Robots take resources, but yes we do have a lot of technology, but those robots will need to be made and will require energy, it would take a while to build such a robotic work force. maybe we can one day arrive there but until then we have to face the day to day problems and find the steps to resolve local problems, we can all start making steps right now. We are all people and we have more in common than we have been educated to understand CONT...
@KillorbeDeath Yes walled cities that is what makes Israel so scary! anyway that is a good example of how populations are educated into believing that they are so different, inside or outside that wall niether side eats pork, they are closer than they think. Yes large empire and nation mentality has to go, but we must always have a sense of community. We need a stronger sense of empathy rather than the negative form of apathy created by sociopathy of leaders.
and about the self-sufficiency is good more if you use renewable energy yet people will have different religions,class,monetary system = corruption,disrespect,thief,crime etc. do the ants colony have all of those? the answer is no, yet they thrive and grow stronger without religion,monetary system and those rubbish to only attract hatred and corruption, why such tiny animal are so efficient and we are not?
@KillorbeDeath Are ants indivuals? have you ever considered that a bea hive is more like one creature with one mind? Yes we have our complexities, but many of them are a result of the make a human being kit that has been used to control them, ironically trying to make them into nothing more than mere units under the controls of Queens and the like. Would you really wish to be an Ant?
@KillorbeDeath It is complex because of our complexity, ants are relatively simple, but here is the true irony, our natural state is not that which you see in the world today, most of human existance 99% of it was based on egalitrian social structure and relied on self-sufficiency, we are where we are now, and we have technology now the question is how can we live naturally using that tech. and not become ants dependent on that technology?
@BrutusCass I only was trying to understand your perspective and trying to see if you were only discredit TVP only because you want the whole credit of be the person who change our destructive way of living, but i see now that you got a good point and I understand your concern about this idea and those people from TVP that are forcing other's to accept them I telling you im not one of those because i respect everyone ideas, thanks my friends for this interesting conversation.
@KillorbeDeath Credit!;() what good would that do me;) No I have no interest in credit but I do see that we all have a part to play in things, we are like drops of water if we can focus ourselves we can move mountains. And it was a pleasure to have had this conversation with you, I am open to open mind people and that is all I really want, open mindness it is key to those boxes chained around our minds;)
@BrutusCass and why rich countries don't accept this idea? maybe is because they are fine with their standards, because they are already rich, ancient rome empire have something called pax romana and that was make constant war and misery far away from roman empire so rome people can live in relative peace, do the imperial domus,senators,equestrains,commons or "Freedpeople" complain? of course no, what about those slaves? to you once live in misery? because i did and i know what it feel like.
@KillorbeDeath Well when you consider that few people in the poorer countries have even heard of this concept or have the luxury to do so yours here is an interesting question, I had a responce from the girl who has the VPchallenge channel, she wrote that she was answering on her blackberry, I found that rather ironic for some reason;) the fact is that it is those who have who are pushing the VP project claiming that there is more than enough to go around, CONT
@KillorbeDeath CONT..when infact it is moderation which humanity needs. As for your question, to use a japaness expression, yes I have walked in the rain, there have been times that I knew hunger well. and now I do not live the life of the fat cats, though I have also done that. You see I tend to see VP as risking becoming a form of Panem et Circenses if it is not already that for some. on the subject of chains, those in those rich countries have chains of the mind.
@BrutusCass we already accept blindly many religions,government,cults etc. rubbish I really want to see humanity freedom, the world everyone can't complain about, going into a city and everyone treat you like equal not matter if you are black,white,oriental etc. why is so hard to break those chains? I still don't get why i have to paid for a world that i born freely?
@KillorbeDeath Yes many do, but lets not make that we (sorry I am not correcting your English here but trying to make a point that have a choice to be blind or not) And yes you are correct to ask why and the simple reasons goes back to the sense of Rights and ownership, in that VP does suggest an answer, but then again when you consider that the system will own everything if VP is not adjusted to become indvidual dependent rather than system dependent then those chains will still exist CONT
@BrutusCass and about blindly accept this as ultimate project, that is not the idea, because im not accepting TVP as ultimate solution, I do want to make a vote to everyone in the world if we accept this, if not then ok fine let vote for other solution, but the idea to see this as apocalyptic or mass brainwash i don't think i'm brainwashed by JF if that is the case then i'm a fanatic and trying to force everyone to accept this, but im not doing it...
@KillorbeDeath I am happy that you aren't but sadly there are some you are,. On voting global, well that may not really be such a good thing, you just can't please everyone. As you mentioned Ghandi, it has to be a case of being the change you wish to see, and indivuals wishing to see a change is a possitive direction. I am again happy that you are not trying to force your view, but again there are some who are.
@BrutusCass yes I understand your point, and I fully agree with you we need action more than words that is why I'm here commenting about this issue because is concern me and it most be first priority to everyone in the world, because i do care about my children future so in that perspective I fully agree with you, but this type of governments and religions doesn't do anything positive history is my evidence if someone disagree with me.
@KillorbeDeath I am happy to meet a person who truly see the point of human exist, yes it is our priority to care about those who come after us and that is why if we are going to push for change and face the adjustment of the human social model, which is a rather complex one, we need to do it with our eues open and be more than sure that we are not missing anything which may turn around and bite those who come after us.
@KillorbeDeath Ley me ask you this which would be better in your view. Self-surficancy on a local scale with people doing what they need to make there world better and therefore improving the community and hence the world or increased dependcy on a globalised system?
@KillorbeDeath Oh I don't judge, but I may sometimes offer corrections to some users, though if they are making sense and trying to communicate then I do my best to comprehend them, after spending 13 years in a country where they don't speak English I have become flexible in comprehension,;)
we got wars,disease's etc. and asking why there is any need of change? hell we got a lot of problem's, you are right nobody support TVP because everyone want to be the first christopher colombus by saying this is that everyone one the have the whole credit of this solution and nobody support any of this idea's, so ok let continue the same circle and see what our future of competition to have more resource's,land's and power end's, positive change is my goal my friend.
@KillorbeDeath I am by no means suggesting that we continue the same circle, in fact that is was of the main reason that VP worries me, it seems that VP wants to put humans as nothing more than beings dependent on a greaters system, and if you truly look at the problems of todays (comsumerism as one main problem) it is dependance which is to blame! We need Volantarism, responciblity and respect in order to have the best form of freedom humans can possibly have.
@KillorbeDeath CONT.. Let me try to explain this another way. If we consider Positive change The Moon, i.e. the final goal. then any group is really nothing more than a finger pointing at it. Meaning that too many people are losing themselves on that finger and missing the full detail of the objective.
sorry to respone late, and I repeat so far the best solution I seem is VP when I see a better solution I'll be the first one to say this idea seems pretty good, for example the idea you suggest green money is fine but we will fall to the same circle? of competition with company's? that resolve the problem with class division's, like i'm more rich than you and you are a poor bastard when we got the resource.. why there is any need of change? if this world have suicidal tendency?
@KillorbeDeath Oh I agree with you, but may concern is that any group which is created can and most likely will tend towards blind followering, which itself bring great risk. The way I see it is that many, not all VPers are from those rich countries and are just jumping on the band wagon and nothing more, we need action and that has to be local and by everyone, we don't need a flag or title for this.
and im not saying that this is will be a utopia the perfect world, no such thing doesnt exist yet, we got technology and resource and still yet we are divided by nations,religions etc. we are not a planetary people, why I can't criticized something that doesn't work? I mean we got police,CIA,FBI many other agency that work to reduce crime and guess what? the crime still going up and up, then the problem is not the police or CIA maybe the problem is the culture, just like 2 pac said b4....
@KillorbeDeath I have no problem with critism of any system, that is the base of science, my problem is with the fact the many VPers have a problem with critism when it comes to VP! Yes the problem is the form of culture, but that does not mean that VP is the only and best answer if it is in fact answer, there is no real depth in their discussion as to a solution as yet, there need to be steps, one can not just say that is what we want with the steps on how to get there!
I'ill glad to see other's solution but is my opinion only that the only one that seems good enough is this one and i don't believe this solution is the only truth such thing doesn't exist but when I see something better some other solution that have the capacity to change our prehistoric way to live by saying this i mean wars,racist,religions etc. i mean this is not about the dream of jacque fresco only this is the dream of martin luther king,JFK,Ghandi etc...
@KillorbeDeath Ok so please explain why it is that you see VP as being good enough, I am sorry if I seem to be stressing the point here, but thus far I have been told that VP may or may not have an RBE and that the ideas of JF may not be important for the project, this from other VPers including yourself here, it does seem a little lacking in detail, there is not real statistical data to support many claims! Where's the hard science in that? So it is not VP but possitive change that you want?
@KillorbeDeath Well if it is possitive change then that is what you should be concerned with, which means that it is being more than following, there should be no need for a label or name, and one should not take critism of the group name as a personal attack, but rather as a chance to understand what other individual members of the human collective see, from their view point, that is being objective, but if the term (in this case VP) ... CONT
@KillorbeDeath CONT.....becomes more important than individuals then you enter into collective subjective thought, which is very dangerous, for if it strays from the path it can lead humanity blindly into a land of the blind so to speak. That said you must at least see the need for safe guards in any system, and the more all encompassing the system the greater the risk! Who watches the watchmen so to speak.
I live in Puerto Rico and i donate money to organizations that do exactly the same thing you are saying here, yet I agree with jacque fresco because with that logic we can do even more for those people my friend, what is the meaning of doing something and hard works if this will continue the same, what are we waiting? until the first nuclear war begin? don't get me wrong brutus you got a point but so TVP.
@KillorbeDeath I don't get you wrong at all, In fact I tolally agree, this video is not against jacque fresco but rather many of the inactive activists who do nothing more than talk, we need some action, small steps, mini local projects not just futuristic ideas, as jacque fresco says he can't do it all alone.
@KillorbeDeath Just one thought though, why not look at the work of others such as Gunter Pauli and his The Blue Economy? There aremany people with points it is good to look at them all but if people refuse to be flexible and look at others because they believe they have found the only truth, we trully do risk that war.
Emergency is great, but all I see is they ask for MONEY to do things ... so if you come to my working place, you'll see italian labor union syndicates are asking for MONEY to help Emergency ... that's the main problem, the VP is the same thing, but get money away from your mind ! .. come to my channel to listen to Fresco, then tell me your opinions, and don't forget that ours are only opinions... reality is a different thing.
@steblizz Did you even bother to look into what they do do? i have watched all of JF videos, and I will point out that I have nothing against JF in most matters, my point is that VPers don't question they just blindly repeat that people should watch the same videos that they have watched. Hai capito questo o no?
Tired of repeating myself, obviously a language barrier with you. TVP & TZM plan is to change the mindset of people stuck in our monetary system. Once people agree with the concepts and the direction of the movement a transition will occur. Like I said before do your own research as far as the transition. Hopefully the information is in German. Remember The Venus Project addresses the root problems of issues and offers solutions, unlike other organizations that do patch work.
@Anonymousg64 As we are talk of what might be you point on how long the system would last is futile and a little silly, only time will tell as to what will be until then there is nothing to learn and everything to guess at! There is a lot more to the4 world than just VP or tzm, tell me what are you througths on Gunter Pauli's Blue Economy? he still talks of money but he also show actions in his project.
@brightgeistmovies Again, that is a dumb statement... MANY MANY MANY people have TRIED to help. However, TVP members are not interested in anything which might conflict with their erroneously established world view. The response is always, as you have so clearly demonstrated... "You don't understand about 'fill in the blank'." As you people are so fond of saying, how do you help someone who refuses to open their eyes?
@0davisaurus0 : well, does it surprise you that people aren't interested in what you tell them when you open your statements with an insult?
have i ever said "you don't understand about [fill in the blank]? i don't think so.
if you have any proof for errors in the idea of the resource based economy, please present them. i have spent many many hours speaking with people who criticised the RBE idea, and if they were open-minded and critical thinkers, we always came to a good conclusion.
@0davisaurus0 : okay, i was wrong about not having said that you misunderstood something, i have no problem admitting that. thanks for demonstrating my error.
@brightgeistmovies Ah, remove your comment... Hide your error. Yes you have a problem admitting your mistakes, otherwise you would admit that TVP members get pissy and disrespectful all the time. The opposition returns the favour, they use it as justification to ban them. It is called 'baiting'. Standard strategy by the likes of Apollo and James (AnotherYou). But hey... whatever turns your crank dude. Keep up with that "doing absolutely nothing" strategy... someday it may get you somewhere.
@0davisaurus0 : oh my, you are really desperate to WIN this discussion, aren't you? in fact i removed the comment and then posted it again with the clarification of what exactly i had been wrong about... but apparently that second post didn't go through... so again: yes, i was wrong, i had actually written that someone had misunderstood something, and i have no problem admitting that. in case you don't know, it's not a bad thing to find out you were wrong, because that's when you learn something
@brightgeistmovies Whatever dude... you do not delete a post to issue a correction, you simply leave your mistake for all to see and issue a correction. If I am ever wrong, I always do the same, however, in this conversation, I doubt I shall have to be concerned with that.
@0davisaurus0 : you know, there's a point when it becomes ridiculous... how many times have i now explained that education is not "doing absolutely nothing", but in fact it is the only way to actual long-term change. fighting symptoms doesn't prevent the same symptoms from re-appearing all over again. only educated people can form an educated society. and an educated society can't be controlled. that's doing something. but i guess you're not interested in listening, are you?
@brightgeistmovies One should be very careful with that word educte! you do know the root of the word do you not? Yes I will agree with fighting symptoms it is always better to find and face the cause, and that is scientific, but not looking further into the root cause is ignorance. When you say educated people educting others that surely depends on their education does it not? And please remember others have also talk of this education of others!
@BrutusCass : i am all for looking as deep as possible into the root cause. if you have any information to expand the theories of the Venus Project, please tell us.
@brightgeistmovies Yes depth in a matters is imortant, now you are asking me to provide infomation which may aid the expansion of the VP theories, I must point out that my interest lies which that of Humanity and not with just one proposed solution, that said though I will try to aid you in seeing the true complexity of the system, which is root of the present problem. We can not just wrap it all up in a simple solution, my question concerning High or Low acceptance was key as is Semantics....
@brightgeistmovies The first thing is to understand that the Scientific Method is about questioning matters and the meaning this aids in the drawing of more correct conclusion. As I seem to be repeating of late, if the meaning of words is not important then it really is meaningless. I picked you up on the use of the term education (see my latest up load for Definition) if the supporters of VP have not even bothered to research this then it is rather concerning is it not? CONt..
@BrutusCass : no it is not concerning. you create a problem where there really is no problem. i can talk to a person about the possibility of a Resource Based Economy, and if the person understands me, then i have informed or educated them. you see some sort of problem with my use of the word "educate", but i simply mean that i explained something to someone. this whole discussion about words is a total waste of time.
@brightgeistmovies Again I will remind you of the Scientific method, which VP claims to be the way forward, if the supporters are unable to follow that method then it is rather concerning believe me! Again see the mening of your own words! " if the person understands me, then i have informed or educated them" Please research the meaning of the word understand! I may comprehend a matter but I don't have to understand it do I.
@BrutusCass : HAHAHAHAHAHA, now i have to research the meaning of the word "understand"... i am losing all interest in this discussin with you :D yes, it is highly amusing, but also a great waste of time
@brightgeistmovies If you have failed to realise that the word understand also indicates acceptance then I am sorry that you can only respond with your gut! yes it does seem that this conversation is a waste of time as all you want to do give your monolog here!
@BrutusCass : no, all YOU want to do is give your monologue here. i have been trying to answer all your questions for days now, but you just keep attacking and insulting me.
@brightgeistmovies No words are not a waste of time if you understand them, but I guess the term Meme is lost on you! Just one question for you, the programme that will be used to control these resourse in this RBE will be written in which lanuage (programming of course, but ithat all depends of the level of programming language) will the meaning of the coding be as unimportant as you see that of words?
@BrutusCass : i've read most of Richard Dawkins' books, so i know the meaning of the word "meme", no worries.
and i have no idea what you're going on about regarding the programming language. your priorities are very wrong, dude. you concern yourself with stuff that is totally irrelevant.
@brightgeistmovies Oh is Dawkins the only one you have read on the subject! he did not coin the phares and certainly is not the only one to use it, I suggest that you try readinn g others! If a Memeplex is so irrelevant than just what are you and the other VPers doing on the internet?
@brightgeistmovies You may say that this is just silly word play, but all we have to use in communication are words, they are really nothing more than a memeplex (please consider the power that a Memeplex has in social order). If the term meme or memeplex is new to you then please take to time to look into it. Your use of the term Root is of interest and also key, for the root is where the foundation lies and must be addressed first, one can not build on weak foundations.
@brightgeistmovies so in saying that the root is important my point is that any change has to be bottom up and based of the will of the mass of indivuals rather than top down based on the will of a few (though well meaning) ideologists. It was for that very point that I made this video, it is all well and good claiming that your idea is the best, but until groups form and start you give solid example, it is really no better than the very thing ZM first critised.
@BrutusCass : i have been active in the Zeitgeist Movement for 2 years now, and i have never heard another TVP supporter say "our idea is the best". i don't know who you spoke to, but i have very different experiences with TVP supporters. and i know a lot of them. they are all critical thinkers, and they think very critically about the RBE itself.
@brightgeistmovies Only 2 years is that really enough to say that you have studied deeply! the very fact that you refuse to even qusetion your/ their ideas show that you have totally misunderstood the scientific method, really that statement is rather condescending!
@BrutusCass : i don't refuse to question my ideas or the ideas of TVP. in fact, i question those ideas all the time. i question them every day. but so far, they have passed every test.
@brightgeistmovies So why have you still refused to study the basic concepts of high or low acceptance societies and why it is important to look into these matters or are you just cherry picking here (that was a question BTW)
@brightgeistmovies The problem here in YT is the limited 500 char text! Really you must admit that we face the most complex of problems and therefore the answers will take a lot more than a few videos, it will take the deep and presonnal research of all who wish to see change, and the willingness to examine those thoughts, not just people blindly jumping on to the first Band wagon which seems to offer what they what!
@brightgeistmovies BTW you still have not studied the terms High and Low acceptance society! would it not be more productive to you to do so then at least we can move this discussion forward instead of you just trying to lead me around in circles, like some broken record salesman?
@brightgeistmovies Finnaly If VPers want the Scientific method then they should at least understand that the seed of science is the what if, may be, may be not, questioning and critism of theory and not blind dogmatic unquestion belief that they are right and all others are wrong! that is not science but rather something which works on the same lines as religion, in that I must say That serious VPers do they movement no facvours by ignoring the practise of non science by other supppers!
@BrutusCass : and again: in all my time and work with TZM, i have never seen a single act of blind dogmatic unquestioning belief from a single TVP supporter. these are just ridiculous accusations, and i have to question your motives here if you continue to spout these.
@BrutusCass : yes, i am an emotional human being. apparently you misunderstood the Venus Project. it's not about humans becoming unemotional beings. it's about applying the unemtional scientific method to resource management and society. but as individuals, we are of course going to remain emotional.
@brightgeistmovies It is by stepping out and viewing the big picture as objectively as possible that one can use the scientific method, not by getting all confused in the picture itself! you state that I have misunderstood the VP and I will agree but that does not mean that I have failed to comprehende that it lacks in many areas and the fact that it's supporters do not wish to fully comprehend the scientific is of concern to me.
anyway, i'm out of here. i got countless more important things to do than having a discussion with a closed-minded person whose only goal seems to be to waste my time with ridiculous accusations, insults and attacks. this here is not a productive conversation at all. feel free to come to our TeamSpeak anytime to discuss these matters in more detail. but i think your opinion on the matter is fixed anyway, so why bother...
@brightgeistmovies It si strange that you call others closed minded yet you are the one who has resued to consider the greater pic here! You state that Social pychology is not important, you make no effort to even consider the greater complexity of Memes and the work of blackmore. Ok enjoy what it is that you consider more important than trully looking at things in greater detail.
@brightgeistmovies You ask why it should be important to you did you not! why ask this is you now state that Social Pychology is important?? Please at least try to make sense.
@brightgeistmovies As for your offer to join your teamspeak, it is the limited discussions that you have clearly shown me here that disuedes me, it is the same reason why I don't enter churches and try to discuss matters, all that happens is the same old retort, dogmatic discussion, with people saying things like "Why is that important" I mean if people wanting to build a complex system refuse to look at complexity what can one do!
@brightgeistmovies You ask why it should be important to you did you not! why ask this is you now state that Social Pychology is important?? Please at least try to make sense.
@brightgeistmovies Just to aid you as you state that you have worked with ZM, what people follow depend very much on the Memeplex created, and that is all VP is!
A memetic transmission of ideologies, is that not why ZM made their video? You might want to read Balckmore if you are3 truly interested in roots on matters!
@brightgeistmovies Oh my motives are clear in my last up load, but that seems to go over your haed as you are far too busy defending your flags rather than truely caring for the future of humanity, may be you would do better questioning your own motives here! After all the scientific method is all about question ones own theory!
@brightgeistmovies No I just point out your miscomprehension in what VP means, you are doing well enough at attcaking your own agruement without my help.
@brightgeistmovies Oh and as foor yourstatement "an educated society can't be controlled " are you sure that you have really thought about your words here?
I say this because education of Society has been used to control the mass for sometime now! That is why the states brought it in back at the beginning of the industrial era! and also why both the Nazis and forms of communisim had their nice little camps for Re.eduction!
@BrutusCass : i think those constant attempts of connecting the Venus Project's intention of giving people relevant information, with Nazis and re-education, are very unfair and pathetic. all we are saying is that most people in the world today know too little about the workings of the current system and way too little about possible alternatives. and that is what should be changed. if you think that's a bad thing and has anything to do with Nazis, i am really sorry for you.
@brightgeistmovies You see here is a classic example of a bad VPers responce, rather than looking at you our words and seeingb that you are at error in the use of the term Education, you jump to Ad Hom (not part of the scientific method) to attack my by saying that I am being "pathetic" and saying that I have done something that I have not done! Yes I will agree that few know little of the system, but should the one eyed man be king? and really do you want us to live in the land of the Blind?
@brightgeistmovies Well you are being rather dogmatic in your responce are you not? Now why are you so unwilling to move this discussion on in areas of sociely pychology? In the word of mr Gump, simple is what simple does. (sorry not really meant as an insult but you dogmatic responce are a little trying) BTW if I call VP supper dogmatic you should try to show that you as one are not rather than showing that you are!
@BrutusCass : you asked me why i don't want to move the discussion on in areas of "sociely pychology". well, i think you will appreciate my scientific behavior of not speaking about topics i don't know much about. that is why. i don't need to know about "sociely pychology" in order to be able to EDUCATE people about our current system and about alternative possibilities.
@brightgeistmovies But how can you unquestionally support something that you do fully comprehend! You ask why you need to know about social pychology, have you not been following the lectures on VP? they would be the first to admit it's importance and PJ has on a couple of occassions. The Current system is not VP, I have no problem with people pointing out the failings of this system, but if you want to claim that you have answer then please at least try to study every part of that answer.
@BrutusCass : "But how can you unquestionally support something that you do fully comprehend!" I DON'T! I DO NOT "UNQUESTIONALLY" SUPPORT TVP! STOP MAKING THESE INSULTING ACCUSATIONS! I QUESTION IT EVERY DAY! AND I AM WRITING THIS IN CAPS TO EMPHASIZE IT!
also, i DO recognize the importance of social psychology! but i myself am not educated about social psychology! but that doesn't mean that i can't motivate other people to look at the system and at alternatives for themselves! that's what i do.
@brightgeistmovies So what is it that you are really trying to discuss then, because thus far all you have done is attack me and this video because it calls into question the lack of action and as you show thought on the part of many VPers? Well isn't it a little hypercritical of you to think that you can educate others when you miss parts of greater understanding yourself? Now please go if that is your wish and waste no more of your time on one such as me maybe I question too much!
@BrutusCass : your manipulative methods of discussion are really pathetic. ending almost every statement with a false accusation that leaves me looking bad if i don't reply... what book dead you read to learn those methods?
@brightgeistmovies Oh this is all really just about how you look is it? I am sorry if your ego can not be sepparted from discussion, that is not at all very object! As which books the list is rather long, I advise you to just start looking into other matters as well a video by PJ and VP suppers, there are so many books out there don't just stop at one or two. you could start with "The Meme Machine" as you have already been introduced to the concept and then see where it takes you.
@BrutusCass : see, you do it again... your manipulative tactics never worked with me, but from now on i'll point them out every time so that others can see them too
@brightgeistmovies What do you think of Socrates? sorry if that seems out of contex. But to be honest all I want is for people to question matters deeply, if enough people really do start questioning matters and that mass leads to the VP being created all well and good, but if people do not think it with be an orwellian nightmare, can you at least see that? Oh an please do point them out, I am not here to look good, if I were I would have made a hype channel.
@BrutusCass : see, from what you write here, i can only assume that you simply don't even know what the Venus Project is actually about.
"if enough people really do start questioning matters and that mass leads to the VP being created" => this statement pretty much proves that you misunderstand the whole VP. the Venus Project is not something that can be "created"... the Venus Project is a PROJECT (hence the name "Project", you know) that has the purpose of making the world a better place (tbc)
@brightgeistmovies There you go contining to agrue a pont that you still don't in your own words understand! How can my concern for something being created out of a blind sycophantic movement which is what many VPers demonstrate themselves as being by their continued agruement and support for a name rather than trully acting to resolve matters be a misunderstanding? Why is the name VP so important to you?
@BrutusCass : cont'd: but TVP does NOT say that this better future must look anything like the designs of Jacque Fresco... it's not even necessary that it will be an RBE... if a better working solution can be found, then we will go with that better solution. all that TVP says is: let's use the scientific method to find the solution that works best for us. how that is supposed to be dogmatic is beyond me. in fact, it's the most un-dogmatic system i've ever heard about.
If you cut through the TZM bullshit and propaganda, the facts are quite clear - TZM is a club about talking. And making videos. That's what it's all about.
I went to their Teamspeak and actually met several people who were less about talking, more about doing. We tried to get some initiatives off the ground but WITHOUT EXCEPTION some brainless dogmatic TZM'er showed up and started making noise that this is not what TZM is about.
It's all about talking. Praising Fresco and the imaginary RBE :)
firuinthehouse 2 months ago
There's a series of videos made by dumb girls with heavy cake like make-up and blank expressions entitled 'Why I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement'. They're incapable of using their own words like an AA member who learn and recite cliches parrot fashion.
lemsip 4 months ago in playlist Zeitgeist Movement
The difference between Emergency and the Venus Project is dealing with the symptoms verses attacking the cause.
Emergency offers short term relief. The Venus Project is a long term solution, not perfect, but closer to it.
tgt305 6 months ago
@tgt305 BOLLOCKS. You forgot to factor in compassion NOW, plus living off -grid NOW, plus the fact that Venus Prison is bank-owned claptrap distraction to stop you rebelling & to keep you trusting in their system, whist they encourage you via Freso and P.Joseph to get behind their desire to dismantle their present system for a far, far worse one. a 1 world bank with - 'tracking' -- you are the resouces
IdaSputum 4 months ago
Respond to this video. FANTASTIC video, Venus Project people are sad parrots devoid of education or awareness. Pygmies have lived in a "RBE" egalitarian society for thousands of years without EVER needing central control of any kind. Their harmonious society only ever get's destroyed when IMF World bank sends loggers in to 'develop' their wonderful example of healthy living.
IdaSputum 4 months ago
You sir are crazy
KingGoddard 7 months ago
your point is good but i come from those worlds that u talk about, and i think that those part of the world need a lot more than some bullshit help. real solution or at least teach someone to think what could be better.
krilin39 7 months ago
Also. Just a suggestion for anyone supporting the Zeitgeist Movement and VP: Please don't be angry when stating your claim and your opinions to other people, it only perpetuates the anger and we won't get anywhere because it'll just get senseless after a certain point.
blackpanther6389 9 months ago
To continue my message, we need a long term - really long term solution to our problems not these really short hand problems that's what Jacque is trying to show. Long term solutions take a long time to develop which Jacque spent his WHOLE LIFE working on. (Caps was for emphasis not for anger lol =D.)
blackpanther6389 9 months ago
I understand where you're coming from Brutus and it's a shame there are so many supporters of the Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project that bring with them, their angry attitudes, which in turn turn people like yourself angry. If you get this message, know that I don't want to get angry with you. Yes there are people who are fixing problems now, but it perpetuates the issues that we currently have we will continue to think that, this is how things just are which is not true
blackpanther6389 9 months ago
absolutely right there, mr. einstein. All those specific projects are doing right now much more specific things than VP. however, in your view no one should ever stop to think why is there even war and offer a solution. You do understand the difference between a band-aid on a symptom or an attemp to cure the disease?
manodotiago 9 months ago
@manodotiago We have heard it all before. Guess what? people can and do stop to think about the worlds problems without being sucked into a fantasy cult. I hope for a better world I really do. The point the video is making is that the so called "attempt to cure the disease" is all talk, while right now, there is someone out there applying the band aid. If they never lives would be lost, talking about symptoms is just taking the moral highground while actually doing fuck all about it
sk3ptikallogik 7 months ago
ok so, ive been fallowing the zeitgeistmovment, and i think its a good idea, i agree with your point of they, we, should do more, but we do also need to spread the word. i tried to check out your site and vid you linked, but i dont speak whatever language they are in, so i can not look into it, if you could find a link in english for me i will check it out.
ZOMBIEHEADSHOTKILLER 10 months ago
aslo, did you ever think that maybe ppl could be part of both groups? from the small description in your vid it seams like it dose good stuff, and i think people can support both groups rather then choosing one side,kinda like when you get ice cream and in stead of only choosing vanilla or chocolate there is the option of the 2 swirled together.
ZOMBIEHEADSHOTKILLER 10 months ago
Well He has a point. Its time to start making the Venus Project City and prove it. It cant remain a dream forever or its just that pipe dreaming.
Fr33d0m4a11 10 months ago
Sad :,,(
pedroalvesmkt 11 months ago
Wow, pathetic
MegaMindgames 11 months ago
@ BrutusCass What do you have against peace? Do you have something to lose? That you're not ready for is to change your own mentality. We live in a world full of hate, it is that many kind people have realized, and therefore would like to try to change this.
It is not a religious project, not a political project but a project to change the perception of life. One last question: What do you have against life?
Erling1956 11 months ago
You are doing patchwork dude.
MastaMusical 1 year ago
have you taken your check book out? That's one hell of a revolution you've got started... change indeed...
viboud 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
have you taken your check book out? That's one hell of a revolution you've got started... change indeed...
viboud 1 year ago
have you taken your check book out? That's one hell of a revolution you've got started... change indeed...
viboud 1 year ago
have you taken your check book out? That's one hell of a revolution you've got started... change indeed...
viboud 1 year ago
agree with nselck.. if we developed an society that understood that we need to co-operate in order to prosper, and the inherent dangers of competition, then we wouldnt need to be "fighting" hunger and war victim problems... u have so much anger, towards a group that advocates a world of peace.. it's impossible to start a VP city while the current system is still in place.. from all the comments ive read, the only people who express hate are people against TVP and their cause..
benatssu 1 year ago
Comment removed
Rosbjerg 1 year ago
lol umad brah?
xxxmoonravenxxx 1 year ago
What an argument. Comparing hospital builders to the venus project? "They built a hospital in Sudan, what did the venus project do?".. Seriously?!
Though its great that someone takes initiative on building hospitals and helping the needy,it still does not deal with the reason why the got their legs blown of in the first place.Imagine the people who placed the landmines had grown up in an enviroment with social stability, abundance and education. You wouldnt need a patch solution like that
nselck 1 year ago 7
@nselck
yeah. great argument. concrete life saving actions vs youtube comments. we can see a clear winner there!!
nem700 1 year ago
@nselck Well what sort of argument are you making? The people involved in helping those who have had their legs blown off are indeed out there right now, helping. You come on and use the word imagine......
So let`s say a Venus Project city is greenlighted and built. What good does that do in the here and now for anyone but the people who live in it? All talk no action. If you want to change the world go and fucking do it and stop imagining
sk3ptikallogik 7 months ago
@nselck you used the key word for both TZM & TVP there...."imagine"
So while someone does take initiative and saves a life, what the fuck have you done? C`mon, you posted that comment 8 months ago pal. What have you done in that time to change the world for the better? I have raised over 30k for charity this year what have you done? Prick
sk3ptikallogik 5 months ago
What's a p-challenge?
tallicalad 1 year ago
@BrutusCass: Do you really think that the answer is that children in the 3rd world like to walk with prosthetic legs and patches all over their bodies. That's not help. Thats desperate measure to keep the bad situation barely tolerable for them. Ok thats a kind of help but their lives are still extremely intolerable. Venus Project wants to set those people free from things like that ever happen. They have rights to live like you in US or other non-third world countries . Why they have to suffer?
TheRobbiefreestyle 1 year ago
haha funny guy BrutusCass :)
bang187 1 year ago
Thank you for the introduction to Emergency. I resonate with your concerns that people talk too much about the future and not do anything now. While I am a proponent of TZM and TVP, I am also a supporter of any movement that is creating change. Im currently organizing projects in the Philippines and then west coast Africa (Sierra Leon, Liberia) where there is much to do. I have friends in the States doing projects in urban cities as well as the impoverished rural areas. Continue the Great Work.
seetvrun 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
By treating symptoms you won't be cured.
jiykauu 1 year ago
the ants was an example and no i don't want to be an ant, my point is that we have the technology to create robots that will work like ants since they are not individuals, like 200 years ago this kind of force labour was great but now the world is overpopulated and the hatred grow as well, because every nations have their cities closed with walls and not allow any other people,race or idea we are not a planetary people we are divided people on this planet and that was what i refer to ants colony
KillorbeDeath 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath Robots take resources, but yes we do have a lot of technology, but those robots will need to be made and will require energy, it would take a while to build such a robotic work force. maybe we can one day arrive there but until then we have to face the day to day problems and find the steps to resolve local problems, we can all start making steps right now. We are all people and we have more in common than we have been educated to understand CONT...
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath Yes walled cities that is what makes Israel so scary! anyway that is a good example of how populations are educated into believing that they are so different, inside or outside that wall niether side eats pork, they are closer than they think. Yes large empire and nation mentality has to go, but we must always have a sense of community. We need a stronger sense of empathy rather than the negative form of apathy created by sociopathy of leaders.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
and about the self-sufficiency is good more if you use renewable energy yet people will have different religions,class,monetary system = corruption,disrespect,thief,crime etc. do the ants colony have all of those? the answer is no, yet they thrive and grow stronger without religion,monetary system and those rubbish to only attract hatred and corruption, why such tiny animal are so efficient and we are not?
KillorbeDeath 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath Are ants indivuals? have you ever considered that a bea hive is more like one creature with one mind? Yes we have our complexities, but many of them are a result of the make a human being kit that has been used to control them, ironically trying to make them into nothing more than mere units under the controls of Queens and the like. Would you really wish to be an Ant?
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath It is complex because of our complexity, ants are relatively simple, but here is the true irony, our natural state is not that which you see in the world today, most of human existance 99% of it was based on egalitrian social structure and relied on self-sufficiency, we are where we are now, and we have technology now the question is how can we live naturally using that tech. and not become ants dependent on that technology?
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass I only was trying to understand your perspective and trying to see if you were only discredit TVP only because you want the whole credit of be the person who change our destructive way of living, but i see now that you got a good point and I understand your concern about this idea and those people from TVP that are forcing other's to accept them I telling you im not one of those because i respect everyone ideas, thanks my friends for this interesting conversation.
KillorbeDeath 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath Credit!;() what good would that do me;) No I have no interest in credit but I do see that we all have a part to play in things, we are like drops of water if we can focus ourselves we can move mountains. And it was a pleasure to have had this conversation with you, I am open to open mind people and that is all I really want, open mindness it is key to those boxes chained around our minds;)
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass and why rich countries don't accept this idea? maybe is because they are fine with their standards, because they are already rich, ancient rome empire have something called pax romana and that was make constant war and misery far away from roman empire so rome people can live in relative peace, do the imperial domus,senators,equestrains,commons or "Freedpeople" complain? of course no, what about those slaves? to you once live in misery? because i did and i know what it feel like.
KillorbeDeath 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath Well when you consider that few people in the poorer countries have even heard of this concept or have the luxury to do so yours here is an interesting question, I had a responce from the girl who has the VPchallenge channel, she wrote that she was answering on her blackberry, I found that rather ironic for some reason;) the fact is that it is those who have who are pushing the VP project claiming that there is more than enough to go around, CONT
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath CONT..when infact it is moderation which humanity needs. As for your question, to use a japaness expression, yes I have walked in the rain, there have been times that I knew hunger well. and now I do not live the life of the fat cats, though I have also done that. You see I tend to see VP as risking becoming a form of Panem et Circenses if it is not already that for some. on the subject of chains, those in those rich countries have chains of the mind.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass we already accept blindly many religions,government,cults etc. rubbish I really want to see humanity freedom, the world everyone can't complain about, going into a city and everyone treat you like equal not matter if you are black,white,oriental etc. why is so hard to break those chains? I still don't get why i have to paid for a world that i born freely?
KillorbeDeath 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath Yes many do, but lets not make that we (sorry I am not correcting your English here but trying to make a point that have a choice to be blind or not) And yes you are correct to ask why and the simple reasons goes back to the sense of Rights and ownership, in that VP does suggest an answer, but then again when you consider that the system will own everything if VP is not adjusted to become indvidual dependent rather than system dependent then those chains will still exist CONT
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath Freedom is a philosophical debate, we will always have limits, it is how we all define those limits which is important.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass and about blindly accept this as ultimate project, that is not the idea, because im not accepting TVP as ultimate solution, I do want to make a vote to everyone in the world if we accept this, if not then ok fine let vote for other solution, but the idea to see this as apocalyptic or mass brainwash i don't think i'm brainwashed by JF if that is the case then i'm a fanatic and trying to force everyone to accept this, but im not doing it...
KillorbeDeath 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath I am happy that you aren't but sadly there are some you are,. On voting global, well that may not really be such a good thing, you just can't please everyone. As you mentioned Ghandi, it has to be a case of being the change you wish to see, and indivuals wishing to see a change is a possitive direction. I am again happy that you are not trying to force your view, but again there are some who are.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass yes I understand your point, and I fully agree with you we need action more than words that is why I'm here commenting about this issue because is concern me and it most be first priority to everyone in the world, because i do care about my children future so in that perspective I fully agree with you, but this type of governments and religions doesn't do anything positive history is my evidence if someone disagree with me.
KillorbeDeath 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath I am happy to meet a person who truly see the point of human exist, yes it is our priority to care about those who come after us and that is why if we are going to push for change and face the adjustment of the human social model, which is a rather complex one, we need to do it with our eues open and be more than sure that we are not missing anything which may turn around and bite those who come after us.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath Ley me ask you this which would be better in your view. Self-surficancy on a local scale with people doing what they need to make there world better and therefore improving the community and hence the world or increased dependcy on a globalised system?
BrutusCass 1 year ago
and please don't judge my english as you see is pretty bad, is not my first language
KillorbeDeath 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath Oh I don't judge, but I may sometimes offer corrections to some users, though if they are making sense and trying to communicate then I do my best to comprehend them, after spending 13 years in a country where they don't speak English I have become flexible in comprehension,;)
BrutusCass 1 year ago
we got wars,disease's etc. and asking why there is any need of change? hell we got a lot of problem's, you are right nobody support TVP because everyone want to be the first christopher colombus by saying this is that everyone one the have the whole credit of this solution and nobody support any of this idea's, so ok let continue the same circle and see what our future of competition to have more resource's,land's and power end's, positive change is my goal my friend.
KillorbeDeath 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath I am by no means suggesting that we continue the same circle, in fact that is was of the main reason that VP worries me, it seems that VP wants to put humans as nothing more than beings dependent on a greaters system, and if you truly look at the problems of todays (comsumerism as one main problem) it is dependance which is to blame! We need Volantarism, responciblity and respect in order to have the best form of freedom humans can possibly have.
Positive change is also my goal
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath CONT.. Let me try to explain this another way. If we consider Positive change The Moon, i.e. the final goal. then any group is really nothing more than a finger pointing at it. Meaning that too many people are losing themselves on that finger and missing the full detail of the objective.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
sorry to respone late, and I repeat so far the best solution I seem is VP when I see a better solution I'll be the first one to say this idea seems pretty good, for example the idea you suggest green money is fine but we will fall to the same circle? of competition with company's? that resolve the problem with class division's, like i'm more rich than you and you are a poor bastard when we got the resource.. why there is any need of change? if this world have suicidal tendency?
KillorbeDeath 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath Oh I agree with you, but may concern is that any group which is created can and most likely will tend towards blind followering, which itself bring great risk. The way I see it is that many, not all VPers are from those rich countries and are just jumping on the band wagon and nothing more, we need action and that has to be local and by everyone, we don't need a flag or title for this.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
and im not saying that this is will be a utopia the perfect world, no such thing doesnt exist yet, we got technology and resource and still yet we are divided by nations,religions etc. we are not a planetary people, why I can't criticized something that doesn't work? I mean we got police,CIA,FBI many other agency that work to reduce crime and guess what? the crime still going up and up, then the problem is not the police or CIA maybe the problem is the culture, just like 2 pac said b4....
KillorbeDeath 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath I have no problem with critism of any system, that is the base of science, my problem is with the fact the many VPers have a problem with critism when it comes to VP! Yes the problem is the form of culture, but that does not mean that VP is the only and best answer if it is in fact answer, there is no real depth in their discussion as to a solution as yet, there need to be steps, one can not just say that is what we want with the steps on how to get there!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
I'ill glad to see other's solution but is my opinion only that the only one that seems good enough is this one and i don't believe this solution is the only truth such thing doesn't exist but when I see something better some other solution that have the capacity to change our prehistoric way to live by saying this i mean wars,racist,religions etc. i mean this is not about the dream of jacque fresco only this is the dream of martin luther king,JFK,Ghandi etc...
KillorbeDeath 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath Ok so please explain why it is that you see VP as being good enough, I am sorry if I seem to be stressing the point here, but thus far I have been told that VP may or may not have an RBE and that the ideas of JF may not be important for the project, this from other VPers including yourself here, it does seem a little lacking in detail, there is not real statistical data to support many claims! Where's the hard science in that? So it is not VP but possitive change that you want?
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath Well if it is possitive change then that is what you should be concerned with, which means that it is being more than following, there should be no need for a label or name, and one should not take critism of the group name as a personal attack, but rather as a chance to understand what other individual members of the human collective see, from their view point, that is being objective, but if the term (in this case VP) ... CONT
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath CONT.....becomes more important than individuals then you enter into collective subjective thought, which is very dangerous, for if it strays from the path it can lead humanity blindly into a land of the blind so to speak. That said you must at least see the need for safe guards in any system, and the more all encompassing the system the greater the risk! Who watches the watchmen so to speak.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
I live in Puerto Rico and i donate money to organizations that do exactly the same thing you are saying here, yet I agree with jacque fresco because with that logic we can do even more for those people my friend, what is the meaning of doing something and hard works if this will continue the same, what are we waiting? until the first nuclear war begin? don't get me wrong brutus you got a point but so TVP.
KillorbeDeath 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath I don't get you wrong at all, In fact I tolally agree, this video is not against jacque fresco but rather many of the inactive activists who do nothing more than talk, we need some action, small steps, mini local projects not just futuristic ideas, as jacque fresco says he can't do it all alone.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@KillorbeDeath Just one thought though, why not look at the work of others such as Gunter Pauli and his The Blue Economy? There aremany people with points it is good to look at them all but if people refuse to be flexible and look at others because they believe they have found the only truth, we trully do risk that war.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
Emergency is great, but all I see is they ask for MONEY to do things ... so if you come to my working place, you'll see italian labor union syndicates are asking for MONEY to help Emergency ... that's the main problem, the VP is the same thing, but get money away from your mind ! .. come to my channel to listen to Fresco, then tell me your opinions, and don't forget that ours are only opinions... reality is a different thing.
steblizz 1 year ago
@steblizz Did you even bother to look into what they do do? i have watched all of JF videos, and I will point out that I have nothing against JF in most matters, my point is that VPers don't question they just blindly repeat that people should watch the same videos that they have watched. Hai capito questo o no?
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@steblizz BTW Teteven )as stated as your home town on your profile page) page is in Bulgaria not in Italy (as stated on your profile page!!!)
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass sure, that's right ! I was born in Teteven (Bulgaria) and now I live near Bergamo (Italy)
:-)
steblizz 1 year ago
@steblizz Ah Bergamo I know it well, the upper is Beautiful, but I don't like the station area late at night.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
Tired of repeating myself, obviously a language barrier with you. TVP & TZM plan is to change the mindset of people stuck in our monetary system. Once people agree with the concepts and the direction of the movement a transition will occur. Like I said before do your own research as far as the transition. Hopefully the information is in German. Remember The Venus Project addresses the root problems of issues and offers solutions, unlike other organizations that do patch work.
creamone 1 year ago
@creamone Just like take! don't you think that it will in fact take a few more steps!
Who is this german person you are talking to?
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@creamone AntiTZM I guess though you should have replied to their comment to make yourself clear.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
okay, i agree that most people who support the Venus Project are not professionals in education. if you can help us improve, we would be happy.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies never take the word of others! Always do your own research.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : everything about the Resource Based Economy is confirmed by my own observations.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@BrutusCass Done that before i even heard of tzm.
listen to the recent radio show by peter on his blog talk channel for details of possible transition scenario's.
Oh do you by any chance believe this system will last any more then 30 years?
If so, you have allot to learn.
Anonymousg64 1 year ago
@Anonymousg64 As we are talk of what might be you point on how long the system would last is futile and a little silly, only time will tell as to what will be until then there is nothing to learn and everything to guess at! There is a lot more to the4 world than just VP or tzm, tell me what are you througths on Gunter Pauli's Blue Economy? he still talks of money but he also show actions in his project.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Again, that is a dumb statement... MANY MANY MANY people have TRIED to help. However, TVP members are not interested in anything which might conflict with their erroneously established world view. The response is always, as you have so clearly demonstrated... "You don't understand about 'fill in the blank'." As you people are so fond of saying, how do you help someone who refuses to open their eyes?
0davisaurus0 1 year ago
@0davisaurus0 : well, does it surprise you that people aren't interested in what you tell them when you open your statements with an insult?
have i ever said "you don't understand about [fill in the blank]? i don't think so.
if you have any proof for errors in the idea of the resource based economy, please present them. i have spent many many hours speaking with people who criticised the RBE idea, and if they were open-minded and critical thinkers, we always came to a good conclusion.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies God, how pathetic.. "have i ever said "you don't understand about [fill in the blank]? i don't think so."
"you have completely misunderstood the idea of the Resource Based Economy" two days ago...
There is also the 'ego' thing, everyone LOVES to use. You people are so predictable. Not to mention boring and monotonous.
0davisaurus0 1 year ago
Comment removed
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@0davisaurus0 : okay, i was wrong about not having said that you misunderstood something, i have no problem admitting that. thanks for demonstrating my error.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Ah, remove your comment... Hide your error. Yes you have a problem admitting your mistakes, otherwise you would admit that TVP members get pissy and disrespectful all the time. The opposition returns the favour, they use it as justification to ban them. It is called 'baiting'. Standard strategy by the likes of Apollo and James (AnotherYou). But hey... whatever turns your crank dude. Keep up with that "doing absolutely nothing" strategy... someday it may get you somewhere.
0davisaurus0 1 year ago
@0davisaurus0 : oh my, you are really desperate to WIN this discussion, aren't you? in fact i removed the comment and then posted it again with the clarification of what exactly i had been wrong about... but apparently that second post didn't go through... so again: yes, i was wrong, i had actually written that someone had misunderstood something, and i have no problem admitting that. in case you don't know, it's not a bad thing to find out you were wrong, because that's when you learn something
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Whatever dude... you do not delete a post to issue a correction, you simply leave your mistake for all to see and issue a correction. If I am ever wrong, I always do the same, however, in this conversation, I doubt I shall have to be concerned with that.
0davisaurus0 1 year ago
@0davisaurus0 : you know, there's a point when it becomes ridiculous... how many times have i now explained that education is not "doing absolutely nothing", but in fact it is the only way to actual long-term change. fighting symptoms doesn't prevent the same symptoms from re-appearing all over again. only educated people can form an educated society. and an educated society can't be controlled. that's doing something. but i guess you're not interested in listening, are you?
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies One should be very careful with that word educte! you do know the root of the word do you not? Yes I will agree with fighting symptoms it is always better to find and face the cause, and that is scientific, but not looking further into the root cause is ignorance. When you say educated people educting others that surely depends on their education does it not? And please remember others have also talk of this education of others!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : i am all for looking as deep as possible into the root cause. if you have any information to expand the theories of the Venus Project, please tell us.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Yes depth in a matters is imortant, now you are asking me to provide infomation which may aid the expansion of the VP theories, I must point out that my interest lies which that of Humanity and not with just one proposed solution, that said though I will try to aid you in seeing the true complexity of the system, which is root of the present problem. We can not just wrap it all up in a simple solution, my question concerning High or Low acceptance was key as is Semantics....
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies The first thing is to understand that the Scientific Method is about questioning matters and the meaning this aids in the drawing of more correct conclusion. As I seem to be repeating of late, if the meaning of words is not important then it really is meaningless. I picked you up on the use of the term education (see my latest up load for Definition) if the supporters of VP have not even bothered to research this then it is rather concerning is it not? CONt..
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : no it is not concerning. you create a problem where there really is no problem. i can talk to a person about the possibility of a Resource Based Economy, and if the person understands me, then i have informed or educated them. you see some sort of problem with my use of the word "educate", but i simply mean that i explained something to someone. this whole discussion about words is a total waste of time.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Again I will remind you of the Scientific method, which VP claims to be the way forward, if the supporters are unable to follow that method then it is rather concerning believe me! Again see the mening of your own words! " if the person understands me, then i have informed or educated them" Please research the meaning of the word understand! I may comprehend a matter but I don't have to understand it do I.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : HAHAHAHAHAHA, now i have to research the meaning of the word "understand"... i am losing all interest in this discussin with you :D yes, it is highly amusing, but also a great waste of time
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies If you have failed to realise that the word understand also indicates acceptance then I am sorry that you can only respond with your gut! yes it does seem that this conversation is a waste of time as all you want to do give your monolog here!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : no, all YOU want to do is give your monologue here. i have been trying to answer all your questions for days now, but you just keep attacking and insulting me.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies No words are not a waste of time if you understand them, but I guess the term Meme is lost on you! Just one question for you, the programme that will be used to control these resourse in this RBE will be written in which lanuage (programming of course, but ithat all depends of the level of programming language) will the meaning of the coding be as unimportant as you see that of words?
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : i've read most of Richard Dawkins' books, so i know the meaning of the word "meme", no worries.
and i have no idea what you're going on about regarding the programming language. your priorities are very wrong, dude. you concern yourself with stuff that is totally irrelevant.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Oh is Dawkins the only one you have read on the subject! he did not coin the phares and certainly is not the only one to use it, I suggest that you try readinn g others! If a Memeplex is so irrelevant than just what are you and the other VPers doing on the internet?
BrutusCass 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BrutusCass : now you're resorting to putting words in my mouth. i have never said that a memeplex is irrelevant.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Well you state this without debunking them, let alone make refence to each case, I must say that is rather non scientific of you!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies You may say that this is just silly word play, but all we have to use in communication are words, they are really nothing more than a memeplex (please consider the power that a Memeplex has in social order). If the term meme or memeplex is new to you then please take to time to look into it. Your use of the term Root is of interest and also key, for the root is where the foundation lies and must be addressed first, one can not build on weak foundations.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies so in saying that the root is important my point is that any change has to be bottom up and based of the will of the mass of indivuals rather than top down based on the will of a few (though well meaning) ideologists. It was for that very point that I made this video, it is all well and good claiming that your idea is the best, but until groups form and start you give solid example, it is really no better than the very thing ZM first critised.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : i have been active in the Zeitgeist Movement for 2 years now, and i have never heard another TVP supporter say "our idea is the best". i don't know who you spoke to, but i have very different experiences with TVP supporters. and i know a lot of them. they are all critical thinkers, and they think very critically about the RBE itself.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Only 2 years is that really enough to say that you have studied deeply! the very fact that you refuse to even qusetion your/ their ideas show that you have totally misunderstood the scientific method, really that statement is rather condescending!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : i don't refuse to question my ideas or the ideas of TVP. in fact, i question those ideas all the time. i question them every day. but so far, they have passed every test.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies So why have you still refused to study the basic concepts of high or low acceptance societies and why it is important to look into these matters or are you just cherry picking here (that was a question BTW)
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies The problem here in YT is the limited 500 char text! Really you must admit that we face the most complex of problems and therefore the answers will take a lot more than a few videos, it will take the deep and presonnal research of all who wish to see change, and the willingness to examine those thoughts, not just people blindly jumping on to the first Band wagon which seems to offer what they what!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : like i said before, YT comments are a very poor way of discussing this. i have invited you to come to TeamSpeak already.
and like i said, the TVP supporters i know don't jump blindly on any bandwagons, they are very critical thinkers.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies BTW you still have not studied the terms High and Low acceptance society! would it not be more productive to you to do so then at least we can move this discussion forward instead of you just trying to lead me around in circles, like some broken record salesman?
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : I don't know, would it?
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Would it what, please at least try to make some kind of sense!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Finnaly If VPers want the Scientific method then they should at least understand that the seed of science is the what if, may be, may be not, questioning and critism of theory and not blind dogmatic unquestion belief that they are right and all others are wrong! that is not science but rather something which works on the same lines as religion, in that I must say That serious VPers do they movement no facvours by ignoring the practise of non science by other supppers!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : and again: in all my time and work with TZM, i have never seen a single act of blind dogmatic unquestioning belief from a single TVP supporter. these are just ridiculous accusations, and i have to question your motives here if you continue to spout these.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies What are these "ridiculous accusattion"! 1, that so far VPers have done nothing but talk!
2, that they use the term "Educate" without considering the meaning of the word!
3, That many like yourself prefer to attack critics of "VP" rather than conduct a scientific based discussion on the greater problems of the world!
4, that thet refer to videos made by others (like the booklet a zealot) would hand out!
5, That most give gut responces.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : yes, exactly those ridiculous accusations.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Which ones, you have stilled failed to provide context!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : you have listed a number of ridiculous accusations, and those are exactly the ones i meant.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies (placed with correct comment this time)
Well you state this without debunking them, let alone make refence to each case, I must say that is rather non scientific of you!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : hey, another insult! what a surprise
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies You see there you go in your gut reaction, I can't help it if you are not making a clear scientific case!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : yes, i am an emotional human being. apparently you misunderstood the Venus Project. it's not about humans becoming unemotional beings. it's about applying the unemtional scientific method to resource management and society. but as individuals, we are of course going to remain emotional.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies It is by stepping out and viewing the big picture as objectively as possible that one can use the scientific method, not by getting all confused in the picture itself! you state that I have misunderstood the VP and I will agree but that does not mean that I have failed to comprehende that it lacks in many areas and the fact that it's supporters do not wish to fully comprehend the scientific is of concern to me.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
anyway, i'm out of here. i got countless more important things to do than having a discussion with a closed-minded person whose only goal seems to be to waste my time with ridiculous accusations, insults and attacks. this here is not a productive conversation at all. feel free to come to our TeamSpeak anytime to discuss these matters in more detail. but i think your opinion on the matter is fixed anyway, so why bother...
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies It si strange that you call others closed minded yet you are the one who has resued to consider the greater pic here! You state that Social pychology is not important, you make no effort to even consider the greater complexity of Memes and the work of blackmore. Ok enjoy what it is that you consider more important than trully looking at things in greater detail.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : "You state that Social pychology is not important"
NO I DID NOT!
NO I DID NOT!
NO I DID NOT!
stop putting things in my mouth that i never said.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies You ask why it should be important to you did you not! why ask this is you now state that Social Pychology is important?? Please at least try to make sense.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : no, i did not ask why social psychology should be iportant to me.
what i said was this:
"i don't need to know about "sociely pychology" in order to be able to EDUCATE people about our current system and about alternative possibilities."
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies As for your offer to join your teamspeak, it is the limited discussions that you have clearly shown me here that disuedes me, it is the same reason why I don't enter churches and try to discuss matters, all that happens is the same old retort, dogmatic discussion, with people saying things like "Why is that important" I mean if people wanting to build a complex system refuse to look at complexity what can one do!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : i don't refuse to look at complexity.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies You ask why it should be important to you did you not! why ask this is you now state that Social Pychology is important?? Please at least try to make sense.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
I will keep posting the same statement from now on, so that maybe someday you will understand it:
I am not unquestioningly supporting TVP, I question it every day, and so far it has passed every test.
I recognize the importance of social psychology, but i am not educated about social psychology myself, which is why i can't talk about it.
I can, however, motivate people to look into the problems of our current system and into alternative possibilities like the Resource Based Economy.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Just to aid you as you state that you have worked with ZM, what people follow depend very much on the Memeplex created, and that is all VP is!
A memetic transmission of ideologies, is that not why ZM made their video? You might want to read Balckmore if you are3 truly interested in roots on matters!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Oh my motives are clear in my last up load, but that seems to go over your haed as you are far too busy defending your flags rather than truely caring for the future of humanity, may be you would do better questioning your own motives here! After all the scientific method is all about question ones own theory!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : haha, you constantly attack me, do you even realize that? LOL
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies No I just point out your miscomprehension in what VP means, you are doing well enough at attcaking your own agruement without my help.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : haha, so you "point out my miscomprehension in what VP means". LOL :D so you know better what TVP means than i do? LOL
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Oh and as foor yourstatement "an educated society can't be controlled " are you sure that you have really thought about your words here?
I say this because education of Society has been used to control the mass for sometime now! That is why the states brought it in back at the beginning of the industrial era! and also why both the Nazis and forms of communisim had their nice little camps for Re.eduction!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : i think those constant attempts of connecting the Venus Project's intention of giving people relevant information, with Nazis and re-education, are very unfair and pathetic. all we are saying is that most people in the world today know too little about the workings of the current system and way too little about possible alternatives. and that is what should be changed. if you think that's a bad thing and has anything to do with Nazis, i am really sorry for you.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies You see here is a classic example of a bad VPers responce, rather than looking at you our words and seeingb that you are at error in the use of the term Education, you jump to Ad Hom (not part of the scientific method) to attack my by saying that I am being "pathetic" and saying that I have done something that I have not done! Yes I will agree that few know little of the system, but should the one eyed man be king? and really do you want us to live in the land of the Blind?
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : after all your insults, you really don't have any right to whine about it when i use the word "pathetic" :D
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Please state these insults that you are referring to!
What are they and where did I say them?
Yours here is nothing more than an invented Ad hom (that is not ironic by BTW)
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : you have repeatedly called TVP supporters "dogmatic" and "blind", and since i support TVP, i take that as insults.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Well you are being rather dogmatic in your responce are you not? Now why are you so unwilling to move this discussion on in areas of sociely pychology? In the word of mr Gump, simple is what simple does. (sorry not really meant as an insult but you dogmatic responce are a little trying) BTW if I call VP supper dogmatic you should try to show that you as one are not rather than showing that you are!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : you asked me why i don't want to move the discussion on in areas of "sociely pychology". well, i think you will appreciate my scientific behavior of not speaking about topics i don't know much about. that is why. i don't need to know about "sociely pychology" in order to be able to EDUCATE people about our current system and about alternative possibilities.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies But how can you unquestionally support something that you do fully comprehend! You ask why you need to know about social pychology, have you not been following the lectures on VP? they would be the first to admit it's importance and PJ has on a couple of occassions. The Current system is not VP, I have no problem with people pointing out the failings of this system, but if you want to claim that you have answer then please at least try to study every part of that answer.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : "But how can you unquestionally support something that you do fully comprehend!" I DON'T! I DO NOT "UNQUESTIONALLY" SUPPORT TVP! STOP MAKING THESE INSULTING ACCUSATIONS! I QUESTION IT EVERY DAY! AND I AM WRITING THIS IN CAPS TO EMPHASIZE IT!
also, i DO recognize the importance of social psychology! but i myself am not educated about social psychology! but that doesn't mean that i can't motivate other people to look at the system and at alternatives for themselves! that's what i do.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies So what is it that you are really trying to discuss then, because thus far all you have done is attack me and this video because it calls into question the lack of action and as you show thought on the part of many VPers? Well isn't it a little hypercritical of you to think that you can educate others when you miss parts of greater understanding yourself? Now please go if that is your wish and waste no more of your time on one such as me maybe I question too much!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : your manipulative methods of discussion are really pathetic. ending almost every statement with a false accusation that leaves me looking bad if i don't reply... what book dead you read to learn those methods?
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies Oh this is all really just about how you look is it? I am sorry if your ego can not be sepparted from discussion, that is not at all very object! As which books the list is rather long, I advise you to just start looking into other matters as well a video by PJ and VP suppers, there are so many books out there don't just stop at one or two. you could start with "The Meme Machine" as you have already been introduced to the concept and then see where it takes you.
FTWR
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : see, you do it again... your manipulative tactics never worked with me, but from now on i'll point them out every time so that others can see them too
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies What do you think of Socrates? sorry if that seems out of contex. But to be honest all I want is for people to question matters deeply, if enough people really do start questioning matters and that mass leads to the VP being created all well and good, but if people do not think it with be an orwellian nightmare, can you at least see that? Oh an please do point them out, I am not here to look good, if I were I would have made a hype channel.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass COrrection ( but if people do not think, it will be an orwellian nightmare)
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : see, from what you write here, i can only assume that you simply don't even know what the Venus Project is actually about.
"if enough people really do start questioning matters and that mass leads to the VP being created" => this statement pretty much proves that you misunderstand the whole VP. the Venus Project is not something that can be "created"... the Venus Project is a PROJECT (hence the name "Project", you know) that has the purpose of making the world a better place (tbc)
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago
@brightgeistmovies There you go contining to agrue a pont that you still don't in your own words understand! How can my concern for something being created out of a blind sycophantic movement which is what many VPers demonstrate themselves as being by their continued agruement and support for a name rather than trully acting to resolve matters be a misunderstanding? Why is the name VP so important to you?
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass : cont'd: but TVP does NOT say that this better future must look anything like the designs of Jacque Fresco... it's not even necessary that it will be an RBE... if a better working solution can be found, then we will go with that better solution. all that TVP says is: let's use the scientific method to find the solution that works best for us. how that is supposed to be dogmatic is beyond me. in fact, it's the most un-dogmatic system i've ever heard about.
brightgeistmovies 1 year ago