Charlie Rose - Jane Mayer & Philip Gourevitch

[lmacorp]

I love Chinese chicks. This Jane Mayer makes me horny

[Resenbrink]

shut up

[phdecora]

wow, im really aroused now. that sounds really hot.

[phdecora]

ok ok, ill agree to anything you say, just stop posting your horrible responses.

[phdecora]

uded?

[wolfheinl]

All Americans should watch this to hear the depths that the Bush administration sank. Hopefully it will show the international community that not all in power in the Bush administration and government are creeps. I commend those who worked against Chaney and Addington and their paranoid "war on terror". I urge the legal community to investigate and bring to justice those who condoned and ordered torture and renditions.

[1nablyty]

haha i love the video

F - MSG me on m.s.n. ID is in my profile. KA

[andrewsyc1]

It's needed when it is needed, it should not be cruel and unusual. Waterboard will work.

[8data]

new intl law expert heads ICC

investigates what the boundaries are

racist red cross sux

but Jane Meyer certainly doesnt

[akhalif68]

I am very upset about what went on in the Bush administration in regard to the "Torture Program" who's chief architects were David Addington & Dick Cheney. Alberto Gonzales & David Woo appear to have gone along with drafting laws & documents to make it happen.

Some people argue that on rare occasions torture has worked in the past, people have revealed important information under duress. As far as I am concerned this doesnt justify using torture becuae of the reasons outlines in the book.

[phdecora]

david woo?

[8data]

jane meyer is hot

[phdecora]

shes married i checked lol

[8data]

but special forces are unbeatable in limited missions

[ReliableInsider]

When you commit war crimes, they take you, against your will, to the Hague.

Bush and Cheney seem to be big fans of doing things against people's will.

[ReliableInsider]

Is Charlie turning into a simpleton? Or a Republican?

Torture never works, because when you do wrong, you lose the support of those who do right.

When you commit the worst crime, it is hard to justify it by saying you are preventing someone from committing some lesser crime.

When you commit crime, the right place for you is prison.

These are things we should be teaching in middle school, not wasting time debating on your once-great tv show.

[jfedjrock]

wiki - "pariah state" At various times in the past, the following states have been labeled as pariahs in the international system: Burma Iran Iraq Israel Libya North Korea South Africa Sudan Syria United States of America Federal Republic of Yugoslavia Zimbabwe

[jfedjrock]

"...precarious diplomatic isolation, the absence of assured, credible security support or political moorings within big-power alliance structures, and ... [being] the targets of obsessive and unrelenting opprobrium and censure within international forums such as the United Nations[1]."

[ReliableInsider]

I think the Bush administration's position is clear:

1. They have never committed torture;

2. They are going to stop committing it soon, and

3. Torture is necessary.

In other words, the overwhelming evidence has forced them to repeatedly admit that they have committed war crimes.

Now we know why the Republican Party has always supported right-wing dictators: they support all the elements that make up dictatorship. And will implement them here, if the voters will allow them to.

[nestorrfortuna]

i do not like catholisism because of the cruzades, and i do not like us military because of guantanamo. and the cruzades were long ago, so think how long will it take to erase gitmo from my mind.

[ColevanFilms]

You poor thing. It must be REAL torture as you go through your day fretting over the idea that American soldiers (some Catholic) are apprehending terrorists, feeding them, clothing them, housing them, and forcing them to listen to Christina Aguilera at an unreasonable volume.

Your comment is absurd. The US Military along with soldiers from nations all around the globe do a thankless job for an uncivilized world.

Btw, let the Crusades go.  Everyone else has. You'll feel better.

[nestorrfortuna]

soldiers have to kill, i do not care how many people the feed or dress. do not kill.

even people that believe in magical superdaddy floting in a cloud believe in the principle of not killing.

[ColevanFilms]

Setting aside your condescending comment concerning people of faith, I have to say that you are terribly naive. This may be hard for you to comprehend, but freedom is not only a cause worth dying for... it is also a cause worth killing for. No one likes it, but war serves a purpose. Without it, none of us would be free.

A world where there are no wars... a world without borders, religion, and economics to separate us... is a fantasy and will never be more than that.

[nestorrfortuna]

i do not care if the world has no border, religion or economics... i think there is only bad reason to kill, who gets to decide when freedom is worth dying from? the powerful? the wisest? the elected? the most believer? you?

please explain. becuase i read a couple of books (suppostly authored by a santa-like figure) and they all give me reason to kill based on freedom...

[ColevanFilms]

It's simple, Simpleton. Let me give you an example: if someone burst into my house and threatened to do harm to my family, I would defend them. And if in the course of that defense, I had to kill that intruder or be killed then the outcome would have happened for good reason.

The same holds true for your freedom. If someone threatens your freedom, you may have to kill or be killed. In either event, you have killed/died for a thing that is worthy.

Who decides? We are free. We decide.

[nestorrfortuna]

the concept of self defense cannot be used to justified the kill done by soldiers.

i think no one is qualified to decide on freedom is worth dying for when the person is free to decide. WE can be wrong. there is a possbility of being wrong when deciding. it is called a mistake and WE the (free?) people are plausible of making mistakes.

is not that simple... for people that think before acting.

[ColevanFilms]

I'm pretty sure that your mind isn't going to change on these isssues, and I know that mine isn't. In light of that, I would just like to say that I love the US military. They are the strongest and most civilized force that has ever existed. They have so many rules to follow that it is amazing that they can do their job at all in a fight against an enemy that has no rules to follow.

[ColevanFilms]

Sometimes they have to take lives, but if you've known many soldiers you know that they take no joy in this. They do what they have to do with heavy hearts. Can you imagine how that decision must weigh on their souls? Soldiers don't kill indiscriminately, but they do kill in defense of self and in defense of freedom. They sacrifice, and that sacrifice has purpose and meaning.

[ColevanFilms]

I know that you can't stand the idea of killing of any kind. So, you probably can't even understand what I'm telling you, but I know that as an American I owe my freedom to men and women who have spilled the blood of others and even died for the cause of freedom. And for their sacrifice, I am eternally grateful.

I, respectfully, agree to disagree.

[nestorrfortuna]

i also enjoy my life because brave men sacrifice themselves and had to kill. i am saying i used to believe in the military, now i do not, guantanamo made me lose the respect towards the uniform. lindsay england and the like.

[8data]

nestorfortuna,

dont believe that military expression is the highest form of honor

US military history is littered with failure incompetency, strategic inconsequence, and dishonor

that doesnt mean that it doesnt have an organizational beauty, just that its not the best forum to prove your worth to society, particularly when there is so much misguided policy behind it

[phdecora]

theres also a lot of great work done by great people under horrible conditions

[hohomafan]

That's what Nazi and Rwanda war criminal used in ICC court as an excuse. You think the soldiers were in worse situation as the prisoners? Who just got threaten that his whole family would be rape if the prisoner didn't talk? Remember who is invading who.

[phdecora]

hohomafan the military is like every other institution, full of all kinds of people. there were a lot of people in the military fighting against the torturers and a lot of military people who talked to journalists like mayer so that this story could get out. let me know when you decide to knowingly throw your career down the toilet in the name of right and wrong because thats what a lot of these people did. just because someone is 'military' doesnt make them bad.

[heston01]

You're addressing a highly controversial subject: war and peace in the world and the "intervention" role of more powerful nations.

I know there are no easy answers, but I take exception to a policy of pre-emption, which in my mind, is fundamentally a position of cowardice. I'm all for self-defense.

As for a world without borders, it's inevitable... just as soon as the aliens attack... :)