The only terrorists in the middle east are the IDF , fuck Israel to hell !! It was a great day when a $60 Russian Katousha rocket fired by Hizbollah exploded and killed 12 or your scum bag IDF soldiers! hahahahaha
The General Assembly’s recommendation never went to the Security Council for consideration because the U.S. knew that, if approved, it could only be implemented by force given the extent of Arab and other Muslim opposition to it; and President Truman was not prepared to use force to partition Palestine.
By the narrowest of margins, and only after a rigged vote, the UN General Assembly did pass a resolution to partition Palestine and create two states, one Arab, one Jewish, with Jerusalem not part of either. But the General Assembly resolution was only a recommendation – meaning that it could have no effect, would not become policy, unless approved by the Security Council.
5 ZIONISM: THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS In the first place the UN without the consent of the majority of the people of Palestine did not have the right to decide to partition Palestine or assign any part of its territory to a minority of alien immigrants in order for them to establish a state of their own.
Israel was created, mainly, by Zionist terrorism and ethnic cleansing – a pre-planned process that saw three-quarters of the indigenous Arab inhabitants of Palestine dispossessed of their homes, their land and their rights.
Zionism asserts that its state was given its birth certificate and thus legitimacy by the UN Partition Resolution of 29 November 1947. That is propaganda nonsense. The truth can be summarized as follows.
Also true is that prior to the obscenity of the Nazi holocaust, most Jews of the world were not at all interested in Zionism’s colonial enterprise and many were opposed to it. The most informed of those who did express their opposition believed that Zionism was morally wrong. They also feared that Zionism’s colonial enterprise would lead to unending conflict and feared that Zionism would one day provoke anti-Semitism.
The Jews who did have a legitimate claim, probably not more than about 10,000 at the time of Zionism’s first dishonest mission statement in 1897, were the direct descendants of the Israelites who stayed in place on the land through time. They regarded themselves as Palestinians, and they were fiercely opposed to Zionism’s colonial enterprise because they feared it would make them as well as the incoming alien Jews enemies of the Palestinian Arabs.
The Jews who “returned” in answer to Zionism’s call had no biological connection to the ancient Hebrews. They were converts to Judaism long after the end of the Hebrew conquest and short-lived domination of much of Canaan, the name as in the Bible by which Palestine was first known to the world. They therefore had no legitimate claim on the land.
i am on the side of israel, america, and their allies. i want to live in a world that can value democracy, freedom, and human rights ideals soon someday. i embrace our democratic soldiers from israel, america, and their allies and pray for their safety and strength. the world fought communism, nazism, and now..islamism..which is an even more dangerous and complex foe. let's stand together and fight islamism ideologically and military. we are all israel.
Thats because the palestinians dont have "there half of Isreal" (ille humour you) anymore it is occupied by the IDF, the only place Palestinians are in control is Gaza which makes up about 5% of land promised to them.
Res 242 says they had to give all occupied territories back.
The west bank and East jerusalem are both legally the Palestinians yet every day more land is confiscated from the Palestinians living there and given to Israeli's.
@chrisdef15 back to who?, before 1967 lebanon held the west bank and Egypt held Gaza. these two countries themselves oppressed the now Palestinians. The Palestinians stood by and allowed there oppression because Egypt and Lebanon promised the destruction of Israel and they they would be allowed to assimilate into their countries. Neither happened
In 48 the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza where given to the Arabs.
Israel took it in the 48 war. And res 242 orders them to give it back.
And while yes there was some opression from other Arabs it was mainly done as the palestinian miltants using there countries as bases where causing them problems in the region and with the US. And the Palestinians didnt allow it at all they routinely fought back.
@chrisdef15 NO history book from anywhere says that. in 48 the jews accepted the partition plan the Arabs didnt the Arabs attacked the land the jews gained from this war was called expansion, this did not included east Jerusalem, West Bank, or Gaza. they got those in 1967 during the six day war.
Get ur facts straight hell u could google any of these dates or words and u would see i am right
Because officially whether they accepted res 181 or not it was Palestinian land. The whole world recognizes that, and not a single country (including the US) recognizes Israel's claim to the land. I do agree its confusing and there is nothing in the whole conflict that is 100% clear but thats how it is.
@chrisdef15 that statement, whether or not it is what res 181 says, is historically baseless at no point in history did the now Palestinians have any definitive control over that or any other land in the region before Egypt and Lebanon it was Britain and before them were wealthy Turks who least the land to Fallah, similar to surfs
And? So what? The Palestinians lived there and have just as much right as Jew's who owned the land thousands of years ago. No sane person gives a crap that they owned it that long ago. The fact the palestinians have lived there for hundred's gives them every right to a country of there own since new countries where being created.
@chrisdef15 first off most of the Arabs who claim 2 be Palestinian and lived on the land for years came after the Balfour Declaration,1917.
second when u get into who deserves the history is very important imagine telling a patriot who is in love with the USA he can never return there, that is what u r suggesting happen to the Jews.
Thirdly even if they were there for "hundreds of years" they never had dominion over it
According to every figures i can find Palestinians where in the majority even back before 1900.
And seriously your using the US as an example? If so all thses "patriots" would have no go back to Europe and give there land back to the natives who owned it for thousands of years. Bad example.
@chrisdef15 The name Palestinian is made up in the world fair in chicago in the 1930's there was a booth that read Palestinian do u know who was in that booth? JEWS
yes the Arabs where the majority but there is no denying that there was a migration influx after 1917.
My example was suppose to show their love for the land which stems from their ancestry
@chrisdef15 Not till 1948 b/4 it was a jewish state the British put major restriction on jewish immigration while virtually no restriction was placed on Arabs. The Balfour declaration was suppose to reverse this but in the end did nothing.
And have u ever heard of the Fallah, who were poor turkish families who went to work/rent land from the wealthy Turkish aristocrats. these were the majority of who the Palestinian's were people who rented land from wealthy turkish men, kind of like surfs
The other option was include the land into Jordan or Egypt (including what is now Israel, as i said owning it thousands of years ago means nothing), and ide say most jew's and Israelis would prefer how it is now then not having there own country at all..
@chrisdef15 this impossible for 1 simple reason Egypt ,Jordan and all other Arab countries, with the exclusion of two, have refused to accept any Palestinians "refugees" And those that have allowed them into there country refuse to allow them to integrate into their society forcing them 2 stay in camps.
All Jews and Israeli's have ever wanted is peace, they give all freedoms 2 those in there land including Arabs. The truth is that the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity
Palestinians have spread as far as the gulf, yes during the later years they refused large numbrs of Palestinians but they all took them in smaller numbers earlier. And it would be completely different as they wouldnt be refugee's they could stay in there own houses on there own land, they would just be part of a nieghbouring country.
And no country/people would accpet what Israel has currently given the Palestinians which is only about 5% of there land.
@chrisdef15 and do we ever hear from those smaller numbers? NO, why? b/c they integrated into society which the camps currently are not being allowed to do.
So much so that they are pretty much their own country
And that is 5% of land they never owned they were always leased the land few ever owned it unless they came from Turkey
Current Israeli PM B.Netanyahu just offered to return these territories and currently palestinians say 'NO'. Preceding Netanyahu 3 other israeli PM's already offered it and heard 'NO'
LOL none of them have agreed to give back 100% of the land, they all particularly want to keep Jerusalem for themselves so its never going to happen.
And your kidding yourself if you think Israel will ever give up the West Bank, its much to greedy for that. I really doubt they would still be buildingnew settlements if they new they would have to force them off anytime soon.
1. 1st of all Jerusalem is originally a Jewish town. BUT OLMERT,SHARON and BARAK DID OFFER ARAFAT HALF OF JERUSALEM
2. East Jerusalem WAS COUNTED IN ISRAEL'S DEALS
3. NOT TRUE. they were offered 95% of original 67' line + 5% compensations. No deal can offer all holy places to both sides, because they overlap. The old Jewish Temple 4 example is BENEATH the gold muslim dome. However, in Israel, all religions are free to do as pleased as in any other western democracy.
4. international law says israel is terrible right? and saudi arabia in which building a church is illegal and ppl lose left arm for stealing / being gay - they're fine. Hamas regularly shooting rockets on civilians is perfectly legal. ALL ARAB countries are dictatorships which oppress they're ppl but thats perfectly legal right? Sadam's cousin wiped out a whole village with chemicals.. China oppresses its ppl and nepal.. not to mention africa, iran, n.korea....
4.. let me clue you in on something. its all legal if you have lots of oil... then you can oppress shoot and kill all the time and its perfectly fine
1+2+3. the negotiations between israeli pm's and palestinians were private. but laterly they disclosed what they had to offer, and its a widely known fact that east jerusalem and all west bank were offered by PM Barak and Olmert. go google yourself.
5.i dont know of anyone in peace w arab countries other then venezuella. Only countries neighbouring w arab countries but not arabs are: Israel, Russia (terror from chechnia) S.african countries (Genocides) and east asia: afghanistan, pakistan (In war).
i dont know where you live., but if you live in the west, its much easier to be in peace with someone who's far away. i dont know how new-yorkers/londoners would react if their towns were targeted by rockets daily by WAR MONGERERS
4.Ofcourse not those are all bad too, but this is a clip about Israel genius.
5. LOL plenty of countries have peacefull relations with Arab countries even the US.
Yes and how would New Yorker's or Londoner's react if land they had lived on for generations was confiscated and they where pushed out to the boundaries where they are told what to do by foreign soldiers?? The same as the Palestinians.
i wouldnt act as palestinians. whichever land i would be given - i would live there in peace.
if israel had to shrink and move to lebanon - that would be fine with me and i'd live in peace. im not territorial, i dont give a shit about land and i wouldnt fight anyone.
too bad these arabs you defend - started these wars and attacks before 67', before israel's occupation, and the reason giving them back west bank takes so long is israelis know they wanna wipe us out step by step
and its not a problem to be in peace with someone who doesnt threaten you.
again - you have to see who started all the fighting.
in 48' israel was founded. arabs attacked the next day.
kept attacking for years and then started war in 67', then 73'
so the aggressive part is them, not israel.
im sure if they never attacked us, id have no problem living with them in peace. im in peace with congo and nigeria, and i dont know where the fuck these places are, and they dont shoot at me
@noam8080 "in 48' israel was founded. arabs attacked the next day." you forget to mention that when israel was founded they expelled 300,000 arabs unlawfully and took some land which the UN gave to the arabs, it was only then that the arab states decided to intervene
5. Gaza is only 5%+-, but was supposed to be a 1st step before the west bank
Before gaza was given back, 50% of israeli's said that land given to palestinians will be good place to shoot rockets from - and amazingly - this is exactly what happened
That's why israeli's dont like the idea that east jer. will be like that too. 100 rockets a day on Jer. (capital of israel) is not exacly what we need or want. BUT STILL, AS MENTIONED IN THIS VIDEO, 4 ISRAELI PM's OFFERED IT, AND HEARD 'NO
4 israeli PM's offered to return these territories for peace, but got a response 'NO'
All settlements in Gaza were dismantled in 2005. Settlments in the west bank can be dismantled to. All palestinians have to say is 'YES' and stop the war
No??? Its to simplistic to reduce the issue on that one word.....Its the palestinians who want peace but the Israeli-Zionists want further land grab.....
Why would they be expanding in the west bank curently and east jerusales...They're basically bringing it under a colonial system as did Turks in Cyprus.....
After thousands of years of wars, invasions, attempts at extermination, Israel just wants their own little plot of land, but no one over there really wants them to be there, let alone exist. Even Obama attempts to get Israel to bend over backwards for a people who never actually have any true claim to the land like Israel does. If my family owns a piece of land and some one comes in to claim it as theirs, I have the right to have them removed. This I do know, The land will all be Israel's soon.
Since the time of King David, Jerusalem, has and always will be Israel's Capitol. God choose this city has His dwelling place. Despite wars, invasions, forced inslavement in other countries. The Jewish people have always returned to THEIR land. After the invasions into Spain and other countries by the arabs countries, Those countries believed they had the right to expel in any way those invaders. Now that Israel is a nation, they have a right to protect and expel their invaders. Yet they do not.
ChristianIrishNation 1 000 000 Jews were expeled from Arab countries 37 000 sqare miles of land(4 time the sieze of Israel) was confiscated.312 000 homes buisnises and synagogues were stolen. 300 BILION OF USD was stolen. This Middle east Jews are the majority of Israeli population today.
The whole land of Israel had 200 000 people (arabs+jews=samaritanians+druze+
armenians+circasians+others)
at year of 1800 or 5% of its I century 4 milion jewish population
And there is hardly any (ex) Arab village that does not have an historical Jewish landmark within a radius of 50 km. What does that prove? Little, if anything.
It does however prove that the Jews have at least as much of a claim to that land as the Arabs who inhabited it at the turn of the 20th century.
Oh, and by the way, thanx for quoting Ha'aretz. Needless to say that the Jews in Israel and abroad have been tormenting themselves by the "injustices" of their deeds ever since Zionism first emerged. This self-criticism and association with the "other" has at times been taken to absurd territory of self-hatred.
Now, 420PALI, can please site me a single Arab authority that concedes to the Jewish right to (at least a speck) of Palestine? I'd love to see that.
There will never be peace until there is justice for all. The promise made to Abraham implied staying faithful to the Torah. True Orthodox religious Jews like Satmar followers oppose the state of Israel because it is not in accordance with the teachings of the Torah, but the result of colonialist zionist and international politics to control an area vital to big business interests. It is a blasphemy to include God in these schemes.
Not in accordance with the teachings of the Torah? Right, and let me guess, Militant Jihad is not "in accordance with the teachings of the Quran and Hadiths" right?
In reality, scripture is usually very vague and often contradictory about most things, and it what we make of them that counts. People simply cherry-pick the parts that sit well with their world view or agenda and then claim devine authority, while the exact opposite conclusion is lurking just a few pages away.
Now, there is probably nothing more that I love best than when the despirate Israel haters start using Neturei Karta or the Satmars as the true Jews, which is approximately the same as claiming that the Talliban is in fact the true Islam.
Usually these people (who are secular and anti-religious by and large) have not the slightest clue as to the theological reasons for these group's anti-zionism, and join the bandwagon on the premise that the enemy of my enemy must be my friend.
If you people had the slightest intellectual integrity within your sorry asses, you take the time to read a bit about your anti-zionist beacons of "Human Rights". Broadly speaking, Hasidic Orthodox leaders opposition to the Zionist endevour can be summed upin that God had promised to return the Jewish people to the Land of Israel by means of the actions of the Jewish Messiah, and that any activity on behalf of the Jews themselves to create or instigate this redemption would be punished.
Yes, that's right! It has nothing to do with the Palestinians expulsion/exodus or the "occupation". It's for purely theologic reasons. And had their theology been different and had Teitelboim (and other Hasidic icons) adopted a pro-Zionist policy, they would all be the most vocal zionists around. In fact, these people, much like the Islamists, are religious zealots in the truest sense of the word, and share little, if any, of your moral and idiological values.
Moreover, as any person familiar with the inside world of the Hasidim will tell you (and I used to help Yotz'im Besheela, so I know the ropes), that this is a backward and fanatic society that is to Judaism what Salafism is to Islam. To allign yourself with these people and calling them the True Judaism is no better than condoning Tribalism, Misogyny, Homophobia, disdain for the Rule of Law and for Modernity, Reason and Science.
Why waste your time answering what you obviously consider false and morally and intellectually low by your standards, is as incomprehensible as defending ethical wars and condemning hate sites; if there ever were ethics for warriors, they became an ornament with the use of weapons that caused great collateral damage as a (terrorist) way of demoralizing the enemy, like bombing Hiroshima or Dresden, and in the case of the former, to tell the world: behave or else...
I think you're a bit tispy from your post-modernist kool-aid. For the 3rd time, there IS a doctrine for ethical military conduct, which unlike your moralistic drivels, is applicable to the real world and is used more or less sucessfully by democracies such as Israel, the UK and Canada.
And I'm kind of lost on your Hiroshima and Dresden examples. Are you saying that the " behave or else..." attitude towards Nazism and Japanese Imperialism was not justified? We should have just sang Kumbaya?
The "behave or else... "was a warning for the rest of the world. I regret not being clear to you and explaining more, as with the Satmar and Neturei Karta, what they discredit is that zionist atheists had any right to act in the name of Judaism. And many Palestinians WERE happy that Jews were coming at first, but the fact is the founders of Israel should have heeded Albert Einstein's warnings. And yes, OK, Israel should become a REAL democracy for all, ONE state for TWO people..
Do not take the trouble to tell me about Satmar or Neturei Karta, I know enough; they totally discredit the argument used by atheist zionists, that the land of Israel was promised by God to the Jews, and so Israel had the right to exist despite the wish of the people living there, the Palestinians.
Wrong Again! The Satmars and NK do in fact believe that the land of Israel was promised by God to the Jews, it is just the means to that end that they differ on with secular Jews. Given that the chances of a devine "Massiah" (whatever that means) descending from heaven to guide the Jewish people to redemption is... well... pretty scant, I would say that the Zionist endevour is the best the Jews have going for them.
Why such Zero-sum thinking. nina? Has it ever occured to you that the Palestinian wish could have been - had they been a more pragmatic and less bigoted people - to become citizens of a Jewish Democratic state, as are now those who make up about a fifth of Israel's population. Every poll suggests that even the most radically anti-zionist of them oppose having their Israeli citizenship revoked for the sake of becoming Citizens of any other Arab state, including proto-palestine. Any ideas why?
And has it ocurred to you that maybe the crimes of fascists like Menachem Begin with his Irgun and Stern buddies and the Nakhba consequence of these actions had something to do with the Palestinian attitude? Were Einstein and other Jewish intelectuals simply deranged when they condemned Begin as a "nazi-fascist"; the Likud party and "pearls" like Sharon and Netanhayu have continued the massacres as befits being the heirs to Herut terrorist tradition.
The true motive is stated by Theodor Hertzls offer of being a colonial outpost of the civilized western world to control the savages from the East, and also a way of getting rid of Jews in Europe who could become attracted to revolutionary ideas. This explains in part nazi-zionist collaboration.
And thank you, pro-zionists strengthen my belief that zionism is a racist, fascist ideology- following the original definition of ideology.
There will never be true peace Israel until God brings an end to it. All the Land from the Mediterranean to the Euphrates. All the Land that Abraham surveyed was promised to his Decendants through Issac. Yet they only possess a tiny fraction of it today. And yet the followers of Islam do not even want Israel to have that. They desire to destroy every Jew on the Earth, but they will not succeed. I know that in the end God wins. Jerusalem will be His Capitol and every knee will bow to Him. Shalom.
I'm sorry to say this, but it's religious crackpots like you that make decent conservatives look like wacky bible thumpers, and even harder for us to make a reasonable & humane case for israel, devoid of devine nonsense.
Feel free to believe in your petty tyrant in the sky, but please, don't use his "authority" on earthly matters - it has brought humanity nothing but pain and misery.
The crimes by the IDF, called "rumors" here, have only been discredited in pro-zionist media and blogs, like all the crimes perpetrated by Israel. International Law is written and applied by those who wield power: what effect does this "law" have in issues such as the Malvinas colonial outpost taken and held by force by the UK? or the UN resolutions blatantly ignored by Israel? Wiping out more than 100,000 civilians in Hiroshima or Dresden was JUST? WAR is JUST in the 21st century ?
No, ninushka. Read the official report by the IDF or Assa Kasher's essay on Just War Theory to see firsthand how Intl. Law is applied, instead of feeding off of hate sites. I can bring you countless instances where the MSM and the so-called Human Rights org. were shown to be liars and willful distorters of the truth. Mind you, you have yet to respond to the BTS rebutall. You know, just stating something, does not automatically make it so.
And please, spare us your "heart-wrenching" moralistic speeches. Looks like your moral relativism has blinded you to any distinctions between the different appliactions of force. If you follow the (incorrect) logic of the number of casualties being indicative of the severity of an attack, then I suggest you rethink your plea about the A-Bombs on Japan. They might have actually prevented the perpetuation of the conflict which would have resulted in far more casualties.
I know that i live in a bubble (sweden) but are people crazy down there? Rather be at war than get their own state? I guess that I only see this in black and white but anything else is better then war in my opinion.
Yes, by Western standards they are. You see, you are "guilty" of projecting your own Western positive-sum thinking on a prime-devider culture and a society which is governed by zero-sum honor/shame dynamics. In more popular terms, the Arabs (their leaders) would rather fight to the death and perpetuate their own (people's) anguish than to come to terms with their "humiliation" by Israel. Unfortunately, most Westerners do not realize that, but project their own beliefs & desires onto the Arabs.
You just repeat the usual zionist chant. The Israeli group "Breaking the Silence" has released a collection of testimonies byf Israeli soldiers that took part in the recent attacks in Gaza corroborating charges that the IDF targeted the trapped civilian population, used human shields and phosphorous bombs and the extensive destruction as well as efforts by the military "rabbinate" to make this a "holy war". These Israelis only follow their true Jewish values in doing this.
ninaquero, I suggest you do a small background check before rushing to take every Israeli "human rights" group at their word. If you took the time to investigate, you would have found out that a similar accusation published initially by Haaretz was making international headlines about a month after the end of Cast Lead. The accusation were in a similar vein: soldiers "spoke out" about deliberate targeting of civilians and other atrocities. continued...
The accusation have been CONFIRMED; the need to stay anonymous for these soldiers reveals just what kind of "democracy" Israel is, a trait it shares with other "democracies" that have backed every fascist coup and military adventure in South America, for example, wiping out an entire generation of "leftist loons", like the military "Proceso" in Argentina, which murdered thousands, many of them "leftist" "activist""loonatic"Jews and was endorsed by the USA and , yes, by Israel.
Ninaquero, whether you're willfully ignorant or a blatant liar - either way - the rumors have been discredited as nothing more than hearsay by investigative journalists, (look up NYtimes retraction), bloggers and last but not least an official IDF inquery. I have the material withing an arm's reach so just tell me what kind of proof do you need. Man, fuck these 500 char. restrictions - I could have wiped the floor with you if there was enough space here to sway some serious rhetorical punches.
There is little that can be said in the way of your accusations that anonymity was necessary to escape persecution besides that you are talking about something you know absolutely nothing about. In fact, Israel is probably among the most open and self-critical societies on earth that relishes in dissent and (some would argue masochistic) self-indignation. If anything, these soldiers would have become local celebs for a while, if their stories would have been verified and found accurate.
I will ignore all your other rants, both because they are irrelevant to the topic, and because they are nothing more that typically incoherert ramblings of a Chomsky fan, and while I admit that he's an interesting fellow well deserving of some good ol' fisking, this is hardly the time and the medium and I'm hardly the right contestant to indulge in such endeavours.
Phosphorous use is IMMORAL in a crowded area like Gaza, no matter what the International Laws say; those laws, after all, justified bombing Hiroshima or Dresden or Belgrade. Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib are also justified, as is the use of torture (is it not?) to stop terrorists; the use of violence for political/ economic ends is justified if it is wielded by a state. Omer Goldman has called the IDF a terrorist force. I agree with her and many other loons.
ninaquero, I suggest you get yourself acquainted with the principles of Just War Theory, Intl. Law (which you would be the first to uphold when it does server your agenda) and the moral dillemas facing the military before you pass judgement on what is and what is not mora in combat. The rest of your post is pure demagoguery.
"Omer Goldman has called the IDF a terrorist force"... and Gilad Atzmon said that Israel is worse than the Nazis. (Unlike other nations and cultures I can think of) In Israel and among the Jews there has never been a defecit of self-criticism, often misplaced and out of proportion. If anything, your quote of Omer refutes your first accusation about a culture of fear and persecution of "whistle blowers" in Israel. You shoud take better aim next time, lest you shoot yourself in the foot again.
Being the daughter of a former Mossad director, Omer can say what she thinks, nevertheless, she and other Shmnistim were jailed for their stance. Many Jews worry about the kind of society Israel is becoming, not those of your ilk, of course. I respect Noam Chomsky, but I am no fan of his, though it is much better than being a fan of the racist, fascist Avigdor Lieberman. What you said about relativism and "terrorists" is exemplified by the characterization of the Kurdish Peshmerga.
terrorism is a term that STATES usually apply to groups that use exactly the same means that STATES use, to achieve different political ends. If the means are the same, the ethical standard is exactly the same, unless of course the ends are justified, because it is in the best interest for all. Because, yes, we ARE all equal, it is only that some are more equal than others.
And of course no rant by a leftist can be complete without some good ol' moral relativism and conspiratorial thinking.
After all, one man's terrorist is another's
freedom fighter, right nina?
Now, as much as I appreciate a good laugh, I would really like us to stick to one specific topic, lest we get lost in the rhetoric. I'd like that to be the validity of the Rabin pre-military academy incident, please. OK?
Were I to be willing to learn about just wars, I would probably first re-read Nietzche and his definition that a good war hallows any cause and other such rightist rants. Being the topic of this video the Palestinian guilt of saying NO, I leave you with the words by Moshe Dayan, former Defense Minister, stated in a famous speech before students at the Israeli Institute of Technology in Haifa in 1969:"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages.
Ninam you seem to be confused again, darling. I wasn't talkig about just wars but about "Just War Theory", which is a doctrine of military ethics, and something you should get yourself acquainted with before passing judgement.
On a more serious note, the IDF has just released its official report on the Gaza Operation and I wholeheartedly recommend that you read it. Just google gazaoperation.pdf
And if you have any constructive criticism I would be delighted to discuss it in length.
You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahial arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population (Ha'aretz, April 4, 1969)
Here we go again with those quotes. I would expect that an intelligent person would understand that random quotes, taken out of the context of the document or speech in which they were originally found, are not very reliable ways to gain an understanding a movement, a person or an idea.
However, has anyone ever denied that many Arab villages were destroyed in the 48 war? You're bursting into an open door here. Has it ever occured to you WHY those villages might have been destroyed?
These too, were anonymous testimonies by soldiers. Some people - among them those who fought as well - however, found the allegations unreliable and tried to get to the source. Little by little the truth came out: IT WAS ALL HEARSAY - NONE OF THESE SOLDIERS WITNESSED ANY WANTON MURDERS, and the person who "leaked" the story turned out to be a Israeli leftist "activist" with an established record of "activist" activities. Basically, Haaretz (and the world MSM) were duped. continued...
So this was nothing more than hearsay. As is usually the case, there was no retraction by the media, so most people (besides the most maticulous Israelis) don't even know this fact. Now you have another such libel by yet another leftist group, this time "breaking the silence", who have a list of 30 ANONYMOUS testimonies with which they rushed to the media, instead of - if Isreal's benefit and morality was their true motive - sitting down with the army and getting to the bottom of it.
When criticized for their more, BTS lamented about the army's unwillingness to unvestigate in good faith, and fears of reprisals on these soldiers - both charges completely unfounded.
When it comes to ANONYMOUS unneeded testimonies, and given the previous accusations debacle, one becomes very skeptical of these stories in general, and since there is never shortage of loonatics with their personal agendas and grievances against the state and army, these stories should really be scrutinized.
Last but not least, Israel does not deny its usage of Phosphorous, however this does not violate Intl. military law and is very effective for disrupting anti-tank homing devices that are abundant in Hamas' arsenal.
The accusation of holy war (which I'm intimatelty familiar with) can only stem from people who do not understand the complex realtionship between the army and the religious establishment. These are really pernicious accusations blown out of every proportion.
By doing so, they attribute to the Arabs the same good will and imaginary rationale that ultimately leads them to the conclusion that mighty Israel is to blame for the suffering of the underdog. The fact that the Arabs would rather sacrifice their own ilk and avoid any rational solution for the sake of preserving their "honor" is so alien to the average Western mind, that it does not even register with all the bleeding hearts of the West.
American/Israeli Jeff Halper in "The Matrix of Control" explains how the Palestinians could get 95% or more of the territory asigned for their state and still they would never be an independent country but a set of "Banthustans" separated by Jewish-only roads; this is sheer hypocrisy, just like talking about not siding with those covering their faces and carrying rocket launchers and not saying a word about those massacring civlians on purpose and throwing phosphorous bombs.
This is bullshit. There are no "Jewish-only" roads. Israel has usually went to extraordinary lengths to minimize civilian casualties. A Palestinian state is joke, not because of some Israeli restrictions on it (such as demilitarization, and Israeli border control with its neighbors), but because it is already a parasitic society that lacks any desire to build a viable and prosperous country. So muc of their energy is channeled towards destabilizing Israel, that none remains for actual statehood
Moreover, Jeff Halper is a member of the crackpot moonbat group "Free Gaza" which attempted to breach the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza during and after the recent Gaza campaign. The inner workings of this little bunch of Leftist loons, as regard to how much they truly care for Gazans, as opposed to their radical leftist politics and publicity, is well documented by thr Blogger "Elder of Ziyon".
I am neither Muslim nor Jew. Both sides are very adept at spewing rhetoric with which to confuse the rest of the world of their "plight." Who are we non-Muslims and non-Jews to believe? After listening extensively to both sides - I cannot determine who is right. So I'll let this one fall to common sense:
The people that allows its people to cover their faces and wield automatic weapons, rocket launchers and RPG's in the streets are NOT the people with whom the rest of the world should side.
psygnal11. although I agree with your last sentence, I urge you not to settle for gut feelings but rather investigate the issue and arrive at the conclusions using your own reason and logic.
The only word of advice I would, however, insist upon is to carefully screen your sources. Do not read the propagandists of both sides, but try to stick to non-partisan scholars who at least attempt to give an objective (which does not necessarily means even-handed) perspective.
It is interesting how the Jews are NOW THE oppressor. I'm sure they feel invincible with all those weapons given by Our-country. Haven't the Jews forgot that "it was they who at one point in history were, being eradicated by the Nazis.? then towards the end of the world, "some clown decided to "place the jews" as what is known today as "ISRAEL"......????? There were no such thing as "ISRAEL BEFORE 1948??????
Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:
"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism."
As long as Palestinians validate their national self-identity by invalidating Israel, there will not be peace. On the other hand, once Palestinians accept the reality of Israel and stop making violence, they will sieze a moral high ground from which they cannot be dislodged.
You're kidding me. Right? Israel the underdog. Please! I am old enough to remeber the 7 day war. Seven days! No underdog wins in 7 days. We have so armed the State of Israel that they hold a VAST military advantage over everyone in the region. It is how they could win a war in seven days over 40 years ago.
Israel has enemies and deserves to protect itself. Underdogs? You're kidding me.
All parties need to listen to John Lennon, "Give peace a chance"
Six days Brucie-not seven. A defensive brilliant pre-emptive attack.
Israel HAS to win the wars of Arab aggresson. When Arabs lose, there are few consequences for them. If Israel lost just once, it would cease to exist.
Israel is a democratic nation that only wants to live in peace. Did words/actions of "peace" work with Hitler? With Arafat? With Hamas? Israel has sought peace continuously-only to hear a resounding NO-followed or preceded by attacks from Arab armies or terrorists.
Six-day war. Pre-emptive, Israel HAS to win against Arab aggression, Hitler's heirs.. If Israel loses once, it ceases to exist. The miracle has been that this tiny state, attacked on its FIRST DAY by FIVE ARAB ARMIES, has continued to exist as a democratic state, with great achievements in medicine, technology, the arts etc, while defending itself against the 22 totalitarian oil rich Arab states surrounding it and beyond. Brucie, discard your Jew hatred for a second, and see the obvious truth.
Politics of destruction are an oxymoron. Where is the politics part when one of the parties is trying to annihilate the other?. Palestinians need to realize that Israel has as much right to exist as they do. Israel has already conceded as much land as they could possibly spare and furthermore has not only the right to exist but the moral obligation to defend itself.
The problems didn't start but got exacerbated in 1948. You guys want to cover the sun with a finger. The name of the land is Israel
Jews have always lived in Israel. Read the Bible. You cannot give them the land that has belonged to them through the ages. Arabs sided with Hitler during WWII and now want to make everyone believe they are the victims. Learn to coexist.
after WWII the winning European countries gave Palestine to the Jews as a gift. or why events started to happened after 1948 why not before. I'm with you that some Jews were living in the land of Palestine, but Jews were living all over the world as well, Russia, Poland, USA, Yemen and Egypt and many more, and they were and still living peacefully. I'm not against Jews as a religion, it's from gad and I believe in Musa but I'm against Zionist ideology. The only thing we can do is to say: NO
I;m not buying the propaganda. Really what Israel wants is the lions share while the Palestinians get the crumbs. Israel is not my enemy but it sure is an embarrassment. They R "little America" because they probably would not exist without all of the external capital comming in from the US. I'm sick of hearing about this only fromthepoint of view of the powerful, I'll side with the Palestinians at this point.
Middle east 101: Palestinians are 100% Arab and Arabs sit on the vast oil reserves and on more than 99.998% of middleast land while tiny Israel sits on only 0.002%. Let the damned Arabs, their wealth and their vast lands solve the PArab problem! Leave Israel alone! Damn Arabs have already insulted Jews enough by building their damn Dome of the rock on the foundations for the 2nd Jewish Temple (that the Romans tore down). Arabs are damn hate filled super intolerant, bullies and plain evil!
Rosalin - The Palestinians who stayed did not do so as the result of an "invitation." Many were removed from their homes and villages and transferred to less desirable places. Do you know the Israeli artist village of Ein Hod? That was an Arab village where the residents were not driven from Israel but were forced to go elsewhere. Over 500 Palestinian villages were destroyed by the Jews in 1948 so Palestinians could not return. Israel was born with ethnic cleansing, crime against humanity.
Rosalin - If you think that David Ben-Gurion was one of the prime Zionist leaders and then Israel's first prime minister after whom Ben-Gurion airport is named is a nut then you are nuts. Pappe based a large part of his book on the published diaries of Ben-Gurion. BTW, don't you know that the original plan of the early Zionists was to have a land in which the Arabs would be transfered (their word) out of the country. Do some reading my dear. The story is pretty as colonialism isn't.
Over 150,000 Palestinians accepted Israels invitation to remain in Israel in 1948, and have multiplied into over 1,300,000 Israeli Arab citizens today. Palestinian Arabs sat on the very first Knesset. How does this fit with the out of context statements that Pappe uses to spew his own communist hatred, (by the way he did run for the communist party, I am not just "calling him names") Read some other sources, please.
The Jews not only have been in Israel for 4000 years but were given a mandate by the UN in 1948.The Arabs attacked and lost. Get over it!! Now learn to live in peace. Why is it if Israel put their weapons down there would be no Israel, but if the Arabs put their weapons down there would be no Israel? The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity to show the world they want peace and value life.
when arafat was saying no to barak, they were just inviting who would go through the door first. thats just for the idiots who didnt understand or thaught it was smthng else. israel always offers an offer then leaves the table. they just like to waist time. its the first time they offer us a state, we say no. becaus y would u take half of what u own?
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The only terrorists in the middle east are the IDF , fuck Israel to hell !! It was a great day when a $60 Russian Katousha rocket fired by Hizbollah exploded and killed 12 or your scum bag IDF soldiers! hahahahaha
biggus8888 1 year ago
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7 ZIONISM: THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS
The General Assembly’s recommendation never went to the Security Council for consideration because the U.S. knew that, if approved, it could only be implemented by force given the extent of Arab and other Muslim opposition to it; and President Truman was not prepared to use force to partition Palestine.
TheCountBernadotte1 1 year ago 7
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6 ZIONISM: THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS
By the narrowest of margins, and only after a rigged vote, the UN General Assembly did pass a resolution to partition Palestine and create two states, one Arab, one Jewish, with Jerusalem not part of either. But the General Assembly resolution was only a recommendation – meaning that it could have no effect, would not become policy, unless approved by the Security Council.
TheCountBernadotte1 1 year ago 6
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5 ZIONISM: THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS In the first place the UN without the consent of the majority of the people of Palestine did not have the right to decide to partition Palestine or assign any part of its territory to a minority of alien immigrants in order for them to establish a state of their own.
TheCountBernadotte1 1 year ago 6
4 ZIONISM: THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS
Israel was created, mainly, by Zionist terrorism and ethnic cleansing – a pre-planned process that saw three-quarters of the indigenous Arab inhabitants of Palestine dispossessed of their homes, their land and their rights.
Zionism asserts that its state was given its birth certificate and thus legitimacy by the UN Partition Resolution of 29 November 1947. That is propaganda nonsense. The truth can be summarized as follows.
TheCountBernadotte1 1 year ago 8
3 ZIONISM: THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS
Also true is that prior to the obscenity of the Nazi holocaust, most Jews of the world were not at all interested in Zionism’s colonial enterprise and many were opposed to it. The most informed of those who did express their opposition believed that Zionism was morally wrong. They also feared that Zionism’s colonial enterprise would lead to unending conflict and feared that Zionism would one day provoke anti-Semitism.
TheCountBernadotte1 1 year ago 7
2 ZIONISM: THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS
The Jews who did have a legitimate claim, probably not more than about 10,000 at the time of Zionism’s first dishonest mission statement in 1897, were the direct descendants of the Israelites who stayed in place on the land through time. They regarded themselves as Palestinians, and they were fiercely opposed to Zionism’s colonial enterprise because they feared it would make them as well as the incoming alien Jews enemies of the Palestinian Arabs.
TheCountBernadotte1 1 year ago 7
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1 ZIONISM: THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS
The Jews who “returned” in answer to Zionism’s call had no biological connection to the ancient Hebrews. They were converts to Judaism long after the end of the Hebrew conquest and short-lived domination of much of Canaan, the name as in the Bible by which Palestine was first known to the world. They therefore had no legitimate claim on the land.
TheCountBernadotte1 1 year ago 6
Boycott the Sicarii Zionist Government and Occupation by not fraternising with illegal settlements in Palestine
The boycott will be a major tool for alleviating the frustration, plaguing so many Israelis.
Contribute To The Success Of The National Boycott by rejecting products made in all illegal settlements.
Get a list of settlement-made products from the campaign HQ;
National Boycott Headquarters
Affiliated with Gush Shalom
Tel: 03-5221732
P.O.B. 3322, Tel-Aviv 61033
TheCountBernadotte1 1 year ago 7
This is what israel has to endure in a tiny piece of land surrounded by arabs i would hate it ..i support israel
bmwnasher 1 year ago
i am on the side of israel, america, and their allies. i want to live in a world that can value democracy, freedom, and human rights ideals soon someday. i embrace our democratic soldiers from israel, america, and their allies and pray for their safety and strength. the world fought communism, nazism, and now..islamism..which is an even more dangerous and complex foe. let's stand together and fight islamism ideologically and military. we are all israel.
totakikay 1 year ago
Palestine: Stop stealing our land. Stop building the settlements on those lands. Stop collective punishment in Gaza with the illegal siege.
Israel: No
TheGabboPuppet 1 year ago
@TheGabboPuppet
Every was is a collective punishment. You have control over Gaza. Send the police to stop rockets instead of celebrating them.
you cant blame israel for collective punishments while not blaming the Hamas who encourages them.
Only AFTER you blame the Hamas for inciting war all the time - only then you can also say "Israeli's maybe could take these rockets and not respond"
noam8080 1 year ago
The reason for all the problems in Palestine - it is efforts of the Palestinians' to destroy Israel!
all the problems in Palestine in the fact that the Palestinians refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist!
but the Palestinians are harming themselves -
- the enemies of Israel are using Palestinians!
and they will not regret sacrificing the Palestinians in their games ...
anshmidt 1 year ago
Palestinians create their problems for self!
Israel - is a territory of the Jewish state and Palestinians - it is the Arabs who invaded Israel following the expulsion of Jews by the Romans.
But for Palestinians given half of Israel! no one bothers for Palestinians to live peacefully on their half of Israel!
anshmidt 1 year ago
@anshmidt
Thats because the palestinians dont have "there half of Isreal" (ille humour you) anymore it is occupied by the IDF, the only place Palestinians are in control is Gaza which makes up about 5% of land promised to them.
chrisdef15 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
-Look at the map
and do not laugh, please!
where "5%"?
- Half the territory of Israel - is Palestine!
But the main thing - all of Israel - a land of the Jews!
The Palestinians - are ordinary Arabs,
who captured Israel!
and troops entered Palestine to protect from terrorists!
anshmidt 1 year ago
@anshmidt
Gaza is the 5%, the rest of Palestinain land is occupied and run by Israel who continues to put Jewish settlers on it.
chrisdef15 1 year ago
this video is right on
MiquRyuhi 2 years ago 3
the leader of the free world
ibilldavis 2 years ago
If the Palestinians wanted peace they would stop teaching their children to hate Jews.
And they would ask for their rights in Arab the nations that they live in, like Jordan, where they have no rights, instead of demonizing Jews.
mattyhoff 2 years ago 3
LOL if Jews wanted peace they would stop stealing Palestinian land.
Maybe your a pussy but most men would fight for as long as it takes if they have no rights and watch more and mor eof ther eland disapear everyday.
Guess your just a pussy though.
chrisdef15 2 years ago
"LOL if Jews wanted peace they would stop stealing Palestinian land."
Israel isn't stealing any land. If you disagree, show exactly what international law states that Israel is stealing any land.
RebelRay 2 years ago
Ofcourse they are stealing land.
Res 242 says they had to give all occupied territories back.
The west bank and East jerusalem are both legally the Palestinians yet every day more land is confiscated from the Palestinians living there and given to Israeli's.
chrisdef15 2 years ago
@chrisdef15 back to who?, before 1967 lebanon held the west bank and Egypt held Gaza. these two countries themselves oppressed the now Palestinians. The Palestinians stood by and allowed there oppression because Egypt and Lebanon promised the destruction of Israel and they they would be allowed to assimilate into their countries. Neither happened
13bjm 1 year ago
@13bjm
Learn history before commenting.
In 48 the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza where given to the Arabs.
Israel took it in the 48 war. And res 242 orders them to give it back.
And while yes there was some opression from other Arabs it was mainly done as the palestinian miltants using there countries as bases where causing them problems in the region and with the US. And the Palestinians didnt allow it at all they routinely fought back.
chrisdef15 1 year ago
@chrisdef15 NO history book from anywhere says that. in 48 the jews accepted the partition plan the Arabs didnt the Arabs attacked the land the jews gained from this war was called expansion, this did not included east Jerusalem, West Bank, or Gaza. they got those in 1967 during the six day war.
Get ur facts straight hell u could google any of these dates or words and u would see i am right
13bjm 1 year ago
@13bjm
LOL so i forgot which war, the end result is the same.
chrisdef15 1 year ago
@chrisdef15 my point is that res 242 says two contradictory statements.
The first is that they must RETURN Gaza and the west bank.
The second is that they have to give the west bank and gaza to the now Palestinians.
So how can u return something to someone who never owned it?
13bjm 1 year ago
@13bjm
Because officially whether they accepted res 181 or not it was Palestinian land. The whole world recognizes that, and not a single country (including the US) recognizes Israel's claim to the land. I do agree its confusing and there is nothing in the whole conflict that is 100% clear but thats how it is.
chrisdef15 1 year ago
@chrisdef15 that statement, whether or not it is what res 181 says, is historically baseless at no point in history did the now Palestinians have any definitive control over that or any other land in the region before Egypt and Lebanon it was Britain and before them were wealthy Turks who least the land to Fallah, similar to surfs
13bjm 1 year ago
@13bjm
And? So what? The Palestinians lived there and have just as much right as Jew's who owned the land thousands of years ago. No sane person gives a crap that they owned it that long ago. The fact the palestinians have lived there for hundred's gives them every right to a country of there own since new countries where being created.
chrisdef15 1 year ago
@chrisdef15 first off most of the Arabs who claim 2 be Palestinian and lived on the land for years came after the Balfour Declaration,1917.
second when u get into who deserves the history is very important imagine telling a patriot who is in love with the USA he can never return there, that is what u r suggesting happen to the Jews.
Thirdly even if they were there for "hundreds of years" they never had dominion over it
13bjm 1 year ago
@13bjm
LOL do some ressearch rather then guessing.
According to every figures i can find Palestinians where in the majority even back before 1900.
And seriously your using the US as an example? If so all thses "patriots" would have no go back to Europe and give there land back to the natives who owned it for thousands of years. Bad example.
chrisdef15 1 year ago
@chrisdef15 The name Palestinian is made up in the world fair in chicago in the 1930's there was a booth that read Palestinian do u know who was in that booth? JEWS
yes the Arabs where the majority but there is no denying that there was a migration influx after 1917.
My example was suppose to show their love for the land which stems from their ancestry
13bjm 1 year ago
@13bjm
LOL there was major Jewish immigration to so your point means nothing.
And leased? Umm no.
chrisdef15 1 year ago
@chrisdef15 Not till 1948 b/4 it was a jewish state the British put major restriction on jewish immigration while virtually no restriction was placed on Arabs. The Balfour declaration was suppose to reverse this but in the end did nothing.
And have u ever heard of the Fallah, who were poor turkish families who went to work/rent land from the wealthy Turkish aristocrats. these were the majority of who the Palestinian's were people who rented land from wealthy turkish men, kind of like surfs
13bjm 1 year ago
@13bjm
The other option was include the land into Jordan or Egypt (including what is now Israel, as i said owning it thousands of years ago means nothing), and ide say most jew's and Israelis would prefer how it is now then not having there own country at all..
chrisdef15 1 year ago
@chrisdef15 this impossible for 1 simple reason Egypt ,Jordan and all other Arab countries, with the exclusion of two, have refused to accept any Palestinians "refugees" And those that have allowed them into there country refuse to allow them to integrate into their society forcing them 2 stay in camps.
All Jews and Israeli's have ever wanted is peace, they give all freedoms 2 those in there land including Arabs. The truth is that the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity
13bjm 1 year ago
@13bjm
Palestinians have spread as far as the gulf, yes during the later years they refused large numbrs of Palestinians but they all took them in smaller numbers earlier. And it would be completely different as they wouldnt be refugee's they could stay in there own houses on there own land, they would just be part of a nieghbouring country.
And no country/people would accpet what Israel has currently given the Palestinians which is only about 5% of there land.
chrisdef15 1 year ago
@chrisdef15 and do we ever hear from those smaller numbers? NO, why? b/c they integrated into society which the camps currently are not being allowed to do.
So much so that they are pretty much their own country
And that is 5% of land they never owned they were always leased the land few ever owned it unless they came from Turkey
13bjm 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
DIdnt you see the movie in this page??
Current Israeli PM B.Netanyahu just offered to return these territories and currently palestinians say 'NO'. Preceding Netanyahu 3 other israeli PM's already offered it and heard 'NO'
didnt you see the video in this page...(?)
noam8080 1 year ago
@noam8080
LOL none of them have agreed to give back 100% of the land, they all particularly want to keep Jerusalem for themselves so its never going to happen.
And your kidding yourself if you think Israel will ever give up the West Bank, its much to greedy for that. I really doubt they would still be buildingnew settlements if they new they would have to force them off anytime soon.
chrisdef15 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
im glad you find it so funny...
1. if they agreed to give 97% with other land compensations - i dont see whats the big deal
2. they agreed about east jerusalem also (btw - a jewish city in its origin)
3 the ones who said 'NO' were y.Arrafat and the new guy (who's the greedy one here?)
4. the territories were conquered in self defence war in 67. (i dont see where u got the self conviction that israel's greedy here?)
5. the settlements were evacuated in Gaza in 2005, so... (??)
noam8080 1 year ago
@noam8080
1/If its no big deal why dont you just give them Jerusalem? Or its only ok for it too be a big deal to you?
2/Agreed to what? East jerisalem wasnt counted in Israel's deals.
3/They said no because they didnt get all there land and access to there historical and religious sites.
4/There have been laws since ww2 about "conquering" land and Israel has broken most of them
5/Gaza is only 5% of land promised to the Palestinians.
chrisdef15 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
1. 1st of all Jerusalem is originally a Jewish town. BUT OLMERT,SHARON and BARAK DID OFFER ARAFAT HALF OF JERUSALEM
2. East Jerusalem WAS COUNTED IN ISRAEL'S DEALS
3. NOT TRUE. they were offered 95% of original 67' line + 5% compensations. No deal can offer all holy places to both sides, because they overlap. The old Jewish Temple 4 example is BENEATH the gold muslim dome. However, in Israel, all religions are free to do as pleased as in any other western democracy.
noam8080 1 year ago
@noam8080
1. No one cares who had it thousands of years ago, they should both share it now.
2. Check again.
3. They have never been offered 100% of land that was taken.
4. Some where yes, doesnt change the fact so is what Israels doing.
5. They never offered it, and if they dont take the risk of giving the land back they will never have peace.
chrisdef15 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
1. you dont care so you can go fuck yourself
2. how do you know?
3. wrong
4. israel's fine
5. having peace with arabs is impossible. who has peace with arabs anywhere in the world?
noam8080 1 year ago
@noam8080
1. Wow intelligent reply.
2. By reading the deals which clearly dont include Jerusalem.
3. A simple google search for the deals shows your an idiot.
4. Not according to the rest of the world and International law.
5. Most people.
chrisdef15 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
4. international law says israel is terrible right? and saudi arabia in which building a church is illegal and ppl lose left arm for stealing / being gay - they're fine. Hamas regularly shooting rockets on civilians is perfectly legal. ALL ARAB countries are dictatorships which oppress they're ppl but thats perfectly legal right? Sadam's cousin wiped out a whole village with chemicals.. China oppresses its ppl and nepal.. not to mention africa, iran, n.korea....
noam8080 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
4.. let me clue you in on something. its all legal if you have lots of oil... then you can oppress shoot and kill all the time and its perfectly fine
1+2+3. the negotiations between israeli pm's and palestinians were private. but laterly they disclosed what they had to offer, and its a widely known fact that east jerusalem and all west bank were offered by PM Barak and Olmert. go google yourself.
noam8080 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
5.i dont know of anyone in peace w arab countries other then venezuella. Only countries neighbouring w arab countries but not arabs are: Israel, Russia (terror from chechnia) S.african countries (Genocides) and east asia: afghanistan, pakistan (In war).
i dont know where you live., but if you live in the west, its much easier to be in peace with someone who's far away. i dont know how new-yorkers/londoners would react if their towns were targeted by rockets daily by WAR MONGERERS
noam8080 1 year ago
@noam8080
1.2.3. Not in any respectable sources i can find.
4.Ofcourse not those are all bad too, but this is a clip about Israel genius.
5. LOL plenty of countries have peacefull relations with Arab countries even the US.
Yes and how would New Yorker's or Londoner's react if land they had lived on for generations was confiscated and they where pushed out to the boundaries where they are told what to do by foreign soldiers?? The same as the Palestinians.
chrisdef15 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
i wouldnt act as palestinians. whichever land i would be given - i would live there in peace.
if israel had to shrink and move to lebanon - that would be fine with me and i'd live in peace. im not territorial, i dont give a shit about land and i wouldnt fight anyone.
too bad these arabs you defend - started these wars and attacks before 67', before israel's occupation, and the reason giving them back west bank takes so long is israelis know they wanna wipe us out step by step
noam8080 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
and its not a problem to be in peace with someone who doesnt threaten you.
again - you have to see who started all the fighting.
in 48' israel was founded. arabs attacked the next day.
kept attacking for years and then started war in 67', then 73'
so the aggressive part is them, not israel.
im sure if they never attacked us, id have no problem living with them in peace. im in peace with congo and nigeria, and i dont know where the fuck these places are, and they dont shoot at me
noam8080 1 year ago
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@noam8080 "in 48' israel was founded. arabs attacked the next day." you forget to mention that when israel was founded they expelled 300,000 arabs unlawfully and took some land which the UN gave to the arabs, it was only then that the arab states decided to intervene
mrjackjones123 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
4. what are the rules? is it illegal to conquer land? if so - i guess the arab wars in 48', 56', 67' and 73' were all illegal.
noam8080 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
5. Gaza is only 5%+-, but was supposed to be a 1st step before the west bank
Before gaza was given back, 50% of israeli's said that land given to palestinians will be good place to shoot rockets from - and amazingly - this is exactly what happened
That's why israeli's dont like the idea that east jer. will be like that too. 100 rockets a day on Jer. (capital of israel) is not exacly what we need or want. BUT STILL, AS MENTIONED IN THIS VIDEO, 4 ISRAELI PM's OFFERED IT, AND HEARD 'NO
noam8080 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
Do not amuse, please!
-what "stealing Palestinian land"?!
All Israel - a land of the Jews!
The Palestinians - are ordinary Arabs,
it they captured Israel - after the expulsion of Jews by the Romans!
it is the Palestinians tried to "destroy Israel"!
and Israel has a right to defend self!
anshmidt 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
Do not amuse, please!
-what "stealing Palestinian land"?!
All Israel - a land of the Jews!
The Palestinians - are ordinary Arabs,
it they captured Israel - after the expulsion of Jews by the Romans!
it is the Palestinians tried to "destroy Israel"!
and Israel has a right to defend self!
anshmidt 1 year ago
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@chrisdef15
@chrisdef15
Do not amuse!
-what "stealing Palestinian land"?!
All Israel - a land of the Jews!
The Palestinians - are ordinary Arabs,
it they captured Israel
- after the expulsion of Jews by the Romans!
it is the Palestinians tried to "destroy Israel"!
and Israel has a right to defend self!
anshmidt 1 year ago
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@chrisdef15
Do not amuse!
-what "stealing Palestinian land"?!
All Israel - a land of the Jews!
The Palestinians - are ordinary Arabs,
it they captured Israel
- after the expulsion of Jews by the Romans!
it is the Palestinians tried to "destroy Israel"!
and Israel has a right to defend self!
anshmidt 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
Do not amuse!
-what "stealing Palestinian land" ?!
All Israel - a land of the Jews!
The Palestinians - are ordinary Arabs,
it they captured Israel
- after the expulsion of Jews by the Romans!
it is the Palestinians tried to "destroy Israel"!
and Israel has a right to defend self!
anshmidt 1 year ago
@anshmidt
All Israel yes, but not the West bank and east Jerusalem.
chrisdef15 1 year ago
@chrisdef15
didnt you see the video in this page(?...)
4 israeli PM's offered to return these territories for peace, but got a response 'NO'
All settlements in Gaza were dismantled in 2005. Settlments in the west bank can be dismantled to. All palestinians have to say is 'YES' and stop the war
noam8080 1 year ago
No??? Its to simplistic to reduce the issue on that one word.....Its the palestinians who want peace but the Israeli-Zionists want further land grab.....
Why would they be expanding in the west bank curently and east jerusales...They're basically bringing it under a colonial system as did Turks in Cyprus.....
SamuriSoldier123 2 years ago
Excellent I'm going to send this to all my friends and hope it goes viral.
How true.
suspendedForJack 2 years ago 6
israel did stole their country, israelis bombed thousands of them to death, they drink dirty water...i wouldnt agree with israel...nobody would
Martinez1887 2 years ago
"israel did stole their country,"
What country?
RebelRay 2 years ago
The Palestinians are terrible at keeping promises.
mattyhoff 2 years ago
die israelis are terrible as well, israel is the reason for the war...
Martinez1887 2 years ago
Why should we keep promises when they stole our land Israel should be destroyed!
bloodwiper 1 year ago
it's started since 1994 when Itzhak Rabin signed on the peace treat with Jordan and then tried with the Pali's.....
speedy4425 2 years ago 2
After thousands of years of wars, invasions, attempts at extermination, Israel just wants their own little plot of land, but no one over there really wants them to be there, let alone exist. Even Obama attempts to get Israel to bend over backwards for a people who never actually have any true claim to the land like Israel does. If my family owns a piece of land and some one comes in to claim it as theirs, I have the right to have them removed. This I do know, The land will all be Israel's soon.
pocketspy 2 years ago 4
Since the time of King David, Jerusalem, has and always will be Israel's Capitol. God choose this city has His dwelling place. Despite wars, invasions, forced inslavement in other countries. The Jewish people have always returned to THEIR land. After the invasions into Spain and other countries by the arabs countries, Those countries believed they had the right to expel in any way those invaders. Now that Israel is a nation, they have a right to protect and expel their invaders. Yet they do not.
pocketspy 2 years ago 3
There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population (Ha'aretz, April 4, 1969)
420PALI 2 years ago
Every historian will tell you that Jews lived in Israel before the Palestinians.
washingtunn 2 years ago 2
Washingtunn)says "Every historian will tell you that Jews lived in Israel before the Palestinians"
And every historian will tell you that the Palestinians lived there longer than the Jews in greater numbers pre 1948.
The Zionists claim the right to return after 2000yrs but deny the Palestinians the right to return after 60years.
ChristianIrishNation 2 years ago
Go read a history book Jews have always had a historic presence in the land of Israel. The "Palestinians" are nothing more than generic Arabs.
-Grow a brain cell.
suspendedForJack 2 years ago 9
palestinians have lived in Palestine before the jews even got to jerusalem.
bloodwiper 1 year ago
@bloodwiper
you idiot. Jerusalem started as a Jewish city. King David rings a bell? that was well before christ, and much before your Mohhamad
noam8080 1 year ago
ChristianIrishNation 1 000 000 Jews were expeled from Arab countries 37 000 sqare miles of land(4 time the sieze of Israel) was confiscated.312 000 homes buisnises and synagogues were stolen. 300 BILION OF USD was stolen. This Middle east Jews are the majority of Israeli population today.
The whole land of Israel had 200 000 people (arabs+jews=samaritanians+druze+
armenians+circasians+others)
at year of 1800 or 5% of its I century 4 milion jewish population
All datas are from wikipedia.
Tomislavv2 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
No thats wrong the majority of Jews in Israel go back to Europe and such Arab countries like Morocco.
ChristianIrishNation 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"No thats wrong the majority of Jews in Israel go back to Europe and such Arab countries like Morocco."
Nope, you are wrong. If you think otherwise, show proof.
RebelRay 2 years ago
Well Said...xxx
SamuriSoldier123 2 years ago
And there is hardly any (ex) Arab village that does not have an historical Jewish landmark within a radius of 50 km. What does that prove? Little, if anything.
It does however prove that the Jews have at least as much of a claim to that land as the Arabs who inhabited it at the turn of the 20th century.
sshender 2 years ago
Oh, and by the way, thanx for quoting Ha'aretz. Needless to say that the Jews in Israel and abroad have been tormenting themselves by the "injustices" of their deeds ever since Zionism first emerged. This self-criticism and association with the "other" has at times been taken to absurd territory of self-hatred.
Now, 420PALI, can please site me a single Arab authority that concedes to the Jewish right to (at least a speck) of Palestine? I'd love to see that.
sshender 2 years ago
There will never be peace until there is justice for all. The promise made to Abraham implied staying faithful to the Torah. True Orthodox religious Jews like Satmar followers oppose the state of Israel because it is not in accordance with the teachings of the Torah, but the result of colonialist zionist and international politics to control an area vital to big business interests. It is a blasphemy to include God in these schemes.
ninaquero 2 years ago
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washingtunn 2 years ago
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tatetsuki 2 years ago
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washingtunn 2 years ago
Not in accordance with the teachings of the Torah? Right, and let me guess, Militant Jihad is not "in accordance with the teachings of the Quran and Hadiths" right?
In reality, scripture is usually very vague and often contradictory about most things, and it what we make of them that counts. People simply cherry-pick the parts that sit well with their world view or agenda and then claim devine authority, while the exact opposite conclusion is lurking just a few pages away.
sshender 2 years ago
Now, there is probably nothing more that I love best than when the despirate Israel haters start using Neturei Karta or the Satmars as the true Jews, which is approximately the same as claiming that the Talliban is in fact the true Islam.
Usually these people (who are secular and anti-religious by and large) have not the slightest clue as to the theological reasons for these group's anti-zionism, and join the bandwagon on the premise that the enemy of my enemy must be my friend.
sshender 2 years ago
If you people had the slightest intellectual integrity within your sorry asses, you take the time to read a bit about your anti-zionist beacons of "Human Rights". Broadly speaking, Hasidic Orthodox leaders opposition to the Zionist endevour can be summed upin that God had promised to return the Jewish people to the Land of Israel by means of the actions of the Jewish Messiah, and that any activity on behalf of the Jews themselves to create or instigate this redemption would be punished.
sshender 2 years ago
Yes, that's right! It has nothing to do with the Palestinians expulsion/exodus or the "occupation". It's for purely theologic reasons. And had their theology been different and had Teitelboim (and other Hasidic icons) adopted a pro-Zionist policy, they would all be the most vocal zionists around. In fact, these people, much like the Islamists, are religious zealots in the truest sense of the word, and share little, if any, of your moral and idiological values.
sshender 2 years ago
Moreover, as any person familiar with the inside world of the Hasidim will tell you (and I used to help Yotz'im Besheela, so I know the ropes), that this is a backward and fanatic society that is to Judaism what Salafism is to Islam. To allign yourself with these people and calling them the True Judaism is no better than condoning Tribalism, Misogyny, Homophobia, disdain for the Rule of Law and for Modernity, Reason and Science.
You sure you wanna be a member in that club?
sshender 2 years ago
Why waste your time answering what you obviously consider false and morally and intellectually low by your standards, is as incomprehensible as defending ethical wars and condemning hate sites; if there ever were ethics for warriors, they became an ornament with the use of weapons that caused great collateral damage as a (terrorist) way of demoralizing the enemy, like bombing Hiroshima or Dresden, and in the case of the former, to tell the world: behave or else...
ninaquero 2 years ago
I think you're a bit tispy from your post-modernist kool-aid. For the 3rd time, there IS a doctrine for ethical military conduct, which unlike your moralistic drivels, is applicable to the real world and is used more or less sucessfully by democracies such as Israel, the UK and Canada.
And I'm kind of lost on your Hiroshima and Dresden examples. Are you saying that the " behave or else..." attitude towards Nazism and Japanese Imperialism was not justified? We should have just sang Kumbaya?
sshender 2 years ago
The "behave or else... "was a warning for the rest of the world. I regret not being clear to you and explaining more, as with the Satmar and Neturei Karta, what they discredit is that zionist atheists had any right to act in the name of Judaism. And many Palestinians WERE happy that Jews were coming at first, but the fact is the founders of Israel should have heeded Albert Einstein's warnings. And yes, OK, Israel should become a REAL democracy for all, ONE state for TWO people..
ninaquero 2 years ago
Do not take the trouble to tell me about Satmar or Neturei Karta, I know enough; they totally discredit the argument used by atheist zionists, that the land of Israel was promised by God to the Jews, and so Israel had the right to exist despite the wish of the people living there, the Palestinians.
ninaquero 2 years ago
Wrong Again! The Satmars and NK do in fact believe that the land of Israel was promised by God to the Jews, it is just the means to that end that they differ on with secular Jews. Given that the chances of a devine "Massiah" (whatever that means) descending from heaven to guide the Jewish people to redemption is... well... pretty scant, I would say that the Zionist endevour is the best the Jews have going for them.
sshender 2 years ago
Why such Zero-sum thinking. nina? Has it ever occured to you that the Palestinian wish could have been - had they been a more pragmatic and less bigoted people - to become citizens of a Jewish Democratic state, as are now those who make up about a fifth of Israel's population. Every poll suggests that even the most radically anti-zionist of them oppose having their Israeli citizenship revoked for the sake of becoming Citizens of any other Arab state, including proto-palestine. Any ideas why?
sshender 2 years ago
And has it ocurred to you that maybe the crimes of fascists like Menachem Begin with his Irgun and Stern buddies and the Nakhba consequence of these actions had something to do with the Palestinian attitude? Were Einstein and other Jewish intelectuals simply deranged when they condemned Begin as a "nazi-fascist"; the Likud party and "pearls" like Sharon and Netanhayu have continued the massacres as befits being the heirs to Herut terrorist tradition.
ninaquero 2 years ago
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tatetsuki 2 years ago
The true motive is stated by Theodor Hertzls offer of being a colonial outpost of the civilized western world to control the savages from the East, and also a way of getting rid of Jews in Europe who could become attracted to revolutionary ideas. This explains in part nazi-zionist collaboration.
And thank you, pro-zionists strengthen my belief that zionism is a racist, fascist ideology- following the original definition of ideology.
ninaquero 2 years ago
There will never be true peace Israel until God brings an end to it. All the Land from the Mediterranean to the Euphrates. All the Land that Abraham surveyed was promised to his Decendants through Issac. Yet they only possess a tiny fraction of it today. And yet the followers of Islam do not even want Israel to have that. They desire to destroy every Jew on the Earth, but they will not succeed. I know that in the end God wins. Jerusalem will be His Capitol and every knee will bow to Him. Shalom.
pocketspy 2 years ago
I'm sorry to say this, but it's religious crackpots like you that make decent conservatives look like wacky bible thumpers, and even harder for us to make a reasonable & humane case for israel, devoid of devine nonsense.
Feel free to believe in your petty tyrant in the sky, but please, don't use his "authority" on earthly matters - it has brought humanity nothing but pain and misery.
Shalom.
sshender 2 years ago
The crimes by the IDF, called "rumors" here, have only been discredited in pro-zionist media and blogs, like all the crimes perpetrated by Israel. International Law is written and applied by those who wield power: what effect does this "law" have in issues such as the Malvinas colonial outpost taken and held by force by the UK? or the UN resolutions blatantly ignored by Israel? Wiping out more than 100,000 civilians in Hiroshima or Dresden was JUST? WAR is JUST in the 21st century ?
ninaquero 2 years ago
No, ninushka. Read the official report by the IDF or Assa Kasher's essay on Just War Theory to see firsthand how Intl. Law is applied, instead of feeding off of hate sites. I can bring you countless instances where the MSM and the so-called Human Rights org. were shown to be liars and willful distorters of the truth. Mind you, you have yet to respond to the BTS rebutall. You know, just stating something, does not automatically make it so.
sshender 2 years ago
And please, spare us your "heart-wrenching" moralistic speeches. Looks like your moral relativism has blinded you to any distinctions between the different appliactions of force. If you follow the (incorrect) logic of the number of casualties being indicative of the severity of an attack, then I suggest you rethink your plea about the A-Bombs on Japan. They might have actually prevented the perpetuation of the conflict which would have resulted in far more casualties.
sshender 2 years ago
I know that i live in a bubble (sweden) but are people crazy down there? Rather be at war than get their own state? I guess that I only see this in black and white but anything else is better then war in my opinion.
StenkarsGabriel 2 years ago
Yes, by Western standards they are. You see, you are "guilty" of projecting your own Western positive-sum thinking on a prime-devider culture and a society which is governed by zero-sum honor/shame dynamics. In more popular terms, the Arabs (their leaders) would rather fight to the death and perpetuate their own (people's) anguish than to come to terms with their "humiliation" by Israel. Unfortunately, most Westerners do not realize that, but project their own beliefs & desires onto the Arabs.
sshender 2 years ago
You just repeat the usual zionist chant. The Israeli group "Breaking the Silence" has released a collection of testimonies byf Israeli soldiers that took part in the recent attacks in Gaza corroborating charges that the IDF targeted the trapped civilian population, used human shields and phosphorous bombs and the extensive destruction as well as efforts by the military "rabbinate" to make this a "holy war". These Israelis only follow their true Jewish values in doing this.
ninaquero 2 years ago
ninaquero, I suggest you do a small background check before rushing to take every Israeli "human rights" group at their word. If you took the time to investigate, you would have found out that a similar accusation published initially by Haaretz was making international headlines about a month after the end of Cast Lead. The accusation were in a similar vein: soldiers "spoke out" about deliberate targeting of civilians and other atrocities. continued...
sshender 2 years ago
The accusation have been CONFIRMED; the need to stay anonymous for these soldiers reveals just what kind of "democracy" Israel is, a trait it shares with other "democracies" that have backed every fascist coup and military adventure in South America, for example, wiping out an entire generation of "leftist loons", like the military "Proceso" in Argentina, which murdered thousands, many of them "leftist" "activist""loonatic"Jews and was endorsed by the USA and , yes, by Israel.
ninaquero 2 years ago
Ninaquero, whether you're willfully ignorant or a blatant liar - either way - the rumors have been discredited as nothing more than hearsay by investigative journalists, (look up NYtimes retraction), bloggers and last but not least an official IDF inquery. I have the material withing an arm's reach so just tell me what kind of proof do you need. Man, fuck these 500 char. restrictions - I could have wiped the floor with you if there was enough space here to sway some serious rhetorical punches.
sshender 2 years ago
There is little that can be said in the way of your accusations that anonymity was necessary to escape persecution besides that you are talking about something you know absolutely nothing about. In fact, Israel is probably among the most open and self-critical societies on earth that relishes in dissent and (some would argue masochistic) self-indignation. If anything, these soldiers would have become local celebs for a while, if their stories would have been verified and found accurate.
sshender 2 years ago 2
I will ignore all your other rants, both because they are irrelevant to the topic, and because they are nothing more that typically incoherert ramblings of a Chomsky fan, and while I admit that he's an interesting fellow well deserving of some good ol' fisking, this is hardly the time and the medium and I'm hardly the right contestant to indulge in such endeavours.
sshender 2 years ago 3
Phosphorous use is IMMORAL in a crowded area like Gaza, no matter what the International Laws say; those laws, after all, justified bombing Hiroshima or Dresden or Belgrade. Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib are also justified, as is the use of torture (is it not?) to stop terrorists; the use of violence for political/ economic ends is justified if it is wielded by a state. Omer Goldman has called the IDF a terrorist force. I agree with her and many other loons.
ninaquero 2 years ago
ninaquero, I suggest you get yourself acquainted with the principles of Just War Theory, Intl. Law (which you would be the first to uphold when it does server your agenda) and the moral dillemas facing the military before you pass judgement on what is and what is not mora in combat. The rest of your post is pure demagoguery.
sshender 2 years ago 2
"Omer Goldman has called the IDF a terrorist force"... and Gilad Atzmon said that Israel is worse than the Nazis. (Unlike other nations and cultures I can think of) In Israel and among the Jews there has never been a defecit of self-criticism, often misplaced and out of proportion. If anything, your quote of Omer refutes your first accusation about a culture of fear and persecution of "whistle blowers" in Israel. You shoud take better aim next time, lest you shoot yourself in the foot again.
sshender 2 years ago 2
Being the daughter of a former Mossad director, Omer can say what she thinks, nevertheless, she and other Shmnistim were jailed for their stance. Many Jews worry about the kind of society Israel is becoming, not those of your ilk, of course. I respect Noam Chomsky, but I am no fan of his, though it is much better than being a fan of the racist, fascist Avigdor Lieberman. What you said about relativism and "terrorists" is exemplified by the characterization of the Kurdish Peshmerga.
ninaquero 2 years ago
terrorism is a term that STATES usually apply to groups that use exactly the same means that STATES use, to achieve different political ends. If the means are the same, the ethical standard is exactly the same, unless of course the ends are justified, because it is in the best interest for all. Because, yes, we ARE all equal, it is only that some are more equal than others.
ninaquero 2 years ago
"justified" and "in the best interest for all" should have been in inverted commas in my comment, as the intention is sarcastic.
ninaquero 2 years ago
And of course no rant by a leftist can be complete without some good ol' moral relativism and conspiratorial thinking.
After all, one man's terrorist is another's
freedom fighter, right nina?
Now, as much as I appreciate a good laugh, I would really like us to stick to one specific topic, lest we get lost in the rhetoric. I'd like that to be the validity of the Rabin pre-military academy incident, please. OK?
sshender 2 years ago
Were I to be willing to learn about just wars, I would probably first re-read Nietzche and his definition that a good war hallows any cause and other such rightist rants. Being the topic of this video the Palestinian guilt of saying NO, I leave you with the words by Moshe Dayan, former Defense Minister, stated in a famous speech before students at the Israeli Institute of Technology in Haifa in 1969:"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages.
ninaquero 2 years ago
Ninam you seem to be confused again, darling. I wasn't talkig about just wars but about "Just War Theory", which is a doctrine of military ethics, and something you should get yourself acquainted with before passing judgement.
On a more serious note, the IDF has just released its official report on the Gaza Operation and I wholeheartedly recommend that you read it. Just google gazaoperation.pdf
And if you have any constructive criticism I would be delighted to discuss it in length.
sshender 2 years ago
You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahial arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population (Ha'aretz, April 4, 1969)
ninaquero 2 years ago
Nina ignores the Jewish history of Israel, something no historian denies. Before the Arab villages, there were Jewish villages.
washingtunn 2 years ago
Here we go again with those quotes. I would expect that an intelligent person would understand that random quotes, taken out of the context of the document or speech in which they were originally found, are not very reliable ways to gain an understanding a movement, a person or an idea.
However, has anyone ever denied that many Arab villages were destroyed in the 48 war? You're bursting into an open door here. Has it ever occured to you WHY those villages might have been destroyed?
sshender 2 years ago
These too, were anonymous testimonies by soldiers. Some people - among them those who fought as well - however, found the allegations unreliable and tried to get to the source. Little by little the truth came out: IT WAS ALL HEARSAY - NONE OF THESE SOLDIERS WITNESSED ANY WANTON MURDERS, and the person who "leaked" the story turned out to be a Israeli leftist "activist" with an established record of "activist" activities. Basically, Haaretz (and the world MSM) were duped. continued...
sshender 2 years ago
So this was nothing more than hearsay. As is usually the case, there was no retraction by the media, so most people (besides the most maticulous Israelis) don't even know this fact. Now you have another such libel by yet another leftist group, this time "breaking the silence", who have a list of 30 ANONYMOUS testimonies with which they rushed to the media, instead of - if Isreal's benefit and morality was their true motive - sitting down with the army and getting to the bottom of it.
sshender 2 years ago
When criticized for their more, BTS lamented about the army's unwillingness to unvestigate in good faith, and fears of reprisals on these soldiers - both charges completely unfounded.
When it comes to ANONYMOUS unneeded testimonies, and given the previous accusations debacle, one becomes very skeptical of these stories in general, and since there is never shortage of loonatics with their personal agendas and grievances against the state and army, these stories should really be scrutinized.
sshender 2 years ago
Last but not least, Israel does not deny its usage of Phosphorous, however this does not violate Intl. military law and is very effective for disrupting anti-tank homing devices that are abundant in Hamas' arsenal.
The accusation of holy war (which I'm intimatelty familiar with) can only stem from people who do not understand the complex realtionship between the army and the religious establishment. These are really pernicious accusations blown out of every proportion.
sshender 2 years ago
By doing so, they attribute to the Arabs the same good will and imaginary rationale that ultimately leads them to the conclusion that mighty Israel is to blame for the suffering of the underdog. The fact that the Arabs would rather sacrifice their own ilk and avoid any rational solution for the sake of preserving their "honor" is so alien to the average Western mind, that it does not even register with all the bleeding hearts of the West.
sshender 2 years ago
American/Israeli Jeff Halper in "The Matrix of Control" explains how the Palestinians could get 95% or more of the territory asigned for their state and still they would never be an independent country but a set of "Banthustans" separated by Jewish-only roads; this is sheer hypocrisy, just like talking about not siding with those covering their faces and carrying rocket launchers and not saying a word about those massacring civlians on purpose and throwing phosphorous bombs.
ninaquero 2 years ago
This is bullshit. There are no "Jewish-only" roads. Israel has usually went to extraordinary lengths to minimize civilian casualties. A Palestinian state is joke, not because of some Israeli restrictions on it (such as demilitarization, and Israeli border control with its neighbors), but because it is already a parasitic society that lacks any desire to build a viable and prosperous country. So muc of their energy is channeled towards destabilizing Israel, that none remains for actual statehood
sshender 2 years ago
Moreover, Jeff Halper is a member of the crackpot moonbat group "Free Gaza" which attempted to breach the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza during and after the recent Gaza campaign. The inner workings of this little bunch of Leftist loons, as regard to how much they truly care for Gazans, as opposed to their radical leftist politics and publicity, is well documented by thr Blogger "Elder of Ziyon".
sshender 2 years ago
I am neither Muslim nor Jew. Both sides are very adept at spewing rhetoric with which to confuse the rest of the world of their "plight." Who are we non-Muslims and non-Jews to believe? After listening extensively to both sides - I cannot determine who is right. So I'll let this one fall to common sense:
The people that allows its people to cover their faces and wield automatic weapons, rocket launchers and RPG's in the streets are NOT the people with whom the rest of the world should side.
psygnal11 2 years ago
psygnal11. although I agree with your last sentence, I urge you not to settle for gut feelings but rather investigate the issue and arrive at the conclusions using your own reason and logic.
The only word of advice I would, however, insist upon is to carefully screen your sources. Do not read the propagandists of both sides, but try to stick to non-partisan scholars who at least attempt to give an objective (which does not necessarily means even-handed) perspective.
Good luck!
sshender 2 years ago
If only the arabs would accept that they are second class.
southsieed 2 years ago
The Palestinians ruined my country Lebanon
PhoenicanSailor 2 years ago
It is interesting how the Jews are NOW THE oppressor. I'm sure they feel invincible with all those weapons given by Our-country. Haven't the Jews forgot that "it was they who at one point in history were, being eradicated by the Nazis.? then towards the end of the world, "some clown decided to "place the jews" as what is known today as "ISRAEL"......????? There were no such thing as "ISRAEL BEFORE 1948??????
mestizo2009 2 years ago
There is no such thing as "Palestinians."
Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:
SecureIsrael 2 years ago 3
"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism."
SecureIsrael 2 years ago 3
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SecureIsrael 2 years ago
As long as Palestinians validate their national self-identity by invalidating Israel, there will not be peace. On the other hand, once Palestinians accept the reality of Israel and stop making violence, they will sieze a moral high ground from which they cannot be dislodged.
MarkIra613 2 years ago 5
to adslp,
You're kidding me. Right? Israel the underdog. Please! I am old enough to remeber the 7 day war. Seven days! No underdog wins in 7 days. We have so armed the State of Israel that they hold a VAST military advantage over everyone in the region. It is how they could win a war in seven days over 40 years ago.
Israel has enemies and deserves to protect itself. Underdogs? You're kidding me.
All parties need to listen to John Lennon, "Give peace a chance"
To peace,
Bruce
bwells922 2 years ago
Wasn't it Six days war?
1Stalker1 2 years ago
Six days Brucie-not seven. A defensive brilliant pre-emptive attack.
Israel HAS to win the wars of Arab aggresson. When Arabs lose, there are few consequences for them. If Israel lost just once, it would cease to exist.
Israel is a democratic nation that only wants to live in peace. Did words/actions of "peace" work with Hitler? With Arafat? With Hamas? Israel has sought peace continuously-only to hear a resounding NO-followed or preceded by attacks from Arab armies or terrorists.
madhavi108 2 years ago 4
Six-day war. Pre-emptive, Israel HAS to win against Arab aggression, Hitler's heirs.. If Israel loses once, it ceases to exist. The miracle has been that this tiny state, attacked on its FIRST DAY by FIVE ARAB ARMIES, has continued to exist as a democratic state, with great achievements in medicine, technology, the arts etc, while defending itself against the 22 totalitarian oil rich Arab states surrounding it and beyond. Brucie, discard your Jew hatred for a second, and see the obvious truth.
madhavi108 2 years ago 5
Politics of destruction are an oxymoron. Where is the politics part when one of the parties is trying to annihilate the other?. Palestinians need to realize that Israel has as much right to exist as they do. Israel has already conceded as much land as they could possibly spare and furthermore has not only the right to exist but the moral obligation to defend itself.
The problems didn't start but got exacerbated in 1948. You guys want to cover the sun with a finger. The name of the land is Israel
TheThinktwice111 2 years ago
No we will not give you our land for free, Jews came in boats back in 1948 and they should go back from what ever they came from
abeeerrr 2 years ago
Jews have always lived in Israel. Read the Bible. You cannot give them the land that has belonged to them through the ages. Arabs sided with Hitler during WWII and now want to make everyone believe they are the victims. Learn to coexist.
TheThinktwice111 2 years ago 2
after WWII the winning European countries gave Palestine to the Jews as a gift. or why events started to happened after 1948 why not before. I'm with you that some Jews were living in the land of Palestine, but Jews were living all over the world as well, Russia, Poland, USA, Yemen and Egypt and many more, and they were and still living peacefully. I'm not against Jews as a religion, it's from gad and I believe in Musa but I'm against Zionist ideology. The only thing we can do is to say: NO
abeeerrr 2 years ago
I;m not buying the propaganda. Really what Israel wants is the lions share while the Palestinians get the crumbs. Israel is not my enemy but it sure is an embarrassment. They R "little America" because they probably would not exist without all of the external capital comming in from the US. I'm sick of hearing about this only fromthepoint of view of the powerful, I'll side with the Palestinians at this point.
tomestubbs 2 years ago
tomestubbs: I could not have said that better myself.
peapin 2 years ago
Middle east 101: Palestinians are 100% Arab and Arabs sit on the vast oil reserves and on more than 99.998% of middleast land while tiny Israel sits on only 0.002%. Let the damned Arabs, their wealth and their vast lands solve the PArab problem! Leave Israel alone! Damn Arabs have already insulted Jews enough by building their damn Dome of the rock on the foundations for the 2nd Jewish Temple (that the Romans tore down). Arabs are damn hate filled super intolerant, bullies and plain evil!
adlsp 2 years ago
Hamas and Hezbollah advocate genocide of Israel and jews worldwide.I say NO.
RebelsLiberator 2 years ago 2
Rosalin - The Palestinians who stayed did not do so as the result of an "invitation." Many were removed from their homes and villages and transferred to less desirable places. Do you know the Israeli artist village of Ein Hod? That was an Arab village where the residents were not driven from Israel but were forced to go elsewhere. Over 500 Palestinian villages were destroyed by the Jews in 1948 so Palestinians could not return. Israel was born with ethnic cleansing, crime against humanity.
Janba32 2 years ago
Rosalin - If you think that David Ben-Gurion was one of the prime Zionist leaders and then Israel's first prime minister after whom Ben-Gurion airport is named is a nut then you are nuts. Pappe based a large part of his book on the published diaries of Ben-Gurion. BTW, don't you know that the original plan of the early Zionists was to have a land in which the Arabs would be transfered (their word) out of the country. Do some reading my dear. The story is pretty as colonialism isn't.
Janba32 2 years ago
Janba, Take another look...please.
Over 150,000 Palestinians accepted Israels invitation to remain in Israel in 1948, and have multiplied into over 1,300,000 Israeli Arab citizens today. Palestinian Arabs sat on the very first Knesset. How does this fit with the out of context statements that Pappe uses to spew his own communist hatred, (by the way he did run for the communist party, I am not just "calling him names") Read some other sources, please.
Rosalin120 2 years ago
Uh
How about you israelis obey international law and stop building illegal cities for Jews Only on Palestinian land?
..
ballsauce666 2 years ago
The Jews not only have been in Israel for 4000 years but were given a mandate by the UN in 1948.The Arabs attacked and lost. Get over it!! Now learn to live in peace. Why is it if Israel put their weapons down there would be no Israel, but if the Arabs put their weapons down there would be no Israel? The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity to show the world they want peace and value life.
harryk472950 2 years ago
when arafat was saying no to barak, they were just inviting who would go through the door first. thats just for the idiots who didnt understand or thaught it was smthng else. israel always offers an offer then leaves the table. they just like to waist time. its the first time they offer us a state, we say no. becaus y would u take half of what u own?
budeiri123 2 years ago
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