Yip Man did not hold back when he taught William Chueng - who was his best student,William lived with Yip Man for 4 years to learn the complete Original system @ was not allowed to teach the pure Wing Chun untill after Yip Man`s death,do not be mislead pure Wing Chun is very effective in a street fight or againts othere styles if you train hard daily @ William Chueng who is a senior to bruce Lee speaks the truth,bruce witnessed how deadly William was in a street fight againts the Triad Gangs.
Cheung's Wing Chun is truly awful, if you want to get beat up in a street fight try using it! It is obvious from films of Yip Man that Cheung's style is very very different to what he taught (films of Yip Man at the end of his life so he himself did not change it any further). The footwork, arm positions, strategy in Cheung's Wing Chun just plain terrible and very unrealistic for a real fight. After Boztepe beat him up Cheung students must be in denial his Wing Chun is any good or practical.
Very interesting with the stepping motions during the Biu Sau section. I haven't seen that before. The kicking section and stepping Gaan Sau was a bit different too :)
To step instead of spinning.. I can see the application..
Are you Chinese TwoGunGunner? if not Yip Man would not have taught you. Wing Chun would be a SECRET that you would not be allowed to know back in the 1950's.
If Yip Man can chose to keep a secret from all races except the Chinese. It sets a precident that he is very particular with who he shares his art. There is no mystery about that.
If Yip Man can bow to pressure and kick Bruce out of the Wing Chun school for not being full chinese, even though he liked Bruce. Do you think, I mean do you THINK? he might not want to teach his full knowledge of Traditional Wing Chun to the Chinese public and teach just the next person in private who he will pass on to in the Traditional way just as the previous Grandmasters did back to Ng Mui just one person. In each generation. How do you have a Grandmaster if everyone knows all????
A shred of proof lies in the martial arts system called Traditional Wing Chun. You have to understand the ideas and how they relate otherwise it means nothing too you. If you don't know and because of that not derived a benefit from it, It is as secret to you just as if you weren't allowed to learn it. The only difference is that it is now available to learn. There is no argument here you just have to learn both versions then you have a balanced view.
What is a martial arts system? It is a collection of movements and ideas with a philosophy. That is all it is. Everyone knows that modified Wing Chun faces centreline to centreline and fights square on and leans back dragging the rear foot. Traditional Wing Chun steps on the ball of the foot has evenly distributed weight faces the point of contact on the blocks and counter attacks on the central line all demonstratable. The history is not that important the benefit gained from the ideas is!
So Cheung sees the whole Wing Chun system then decides he will create a parrallel version he then makes the weight distribution 50/50 for better balance and co-ordination steps on the balls of the feet and avoids fighting force with force. Fights his opponent at an angle the same angles the Wooden Dummy provides. Or Perhaps the earliest Wing Chun has better balance and footwork and perhaps Cheung is telling the truth.
Modified Wing Chun states that you face your opponent Centreline to Centreline and fight in the middle. If that is the case why have angles on the Wooden Dummy just face it head on and move into it and back out and back in again. If you fight centreline to centreline you don't need angles because you arent using any. You don't need a young orphan girl to come up with fighting head on. force on force centreline to centreline. She has to avoid force and fight her opponent at an angle.
Thats right they all knew the secret and everyone is doing it. No. You havn't been listening know one else was taught this version by Yip Man. So no you won't see anyone else doing it from Yip Man's lineage. SECRET means not known to everybody including you..The fake shock you guys post is funny "This is not the way we do Wing Chun!". You werent ment to know it, and looking at the form wont make you any the wiser either as you dont know the fundemental principle. No medicine for ignorance
"...know one else was taught this version by Yip Man."
That's stupid. Claims of "secret teaching" are ALWAYS stupid bullshit.
ALWAYS.
There's NO reason to believe it, & TONS of reasons not to.
In 2011, with the sort of easy access to information & easy instant communication provided by the 'net, there's no excuse for believing that dumb story. Anyone who does is either a completely gullible fool, or deliberately lying to themselvs.
@TwoGunGunnar The problem is the internet wasn't invented 50 years ago and Chinese systems were closely guarded secrets. Not even allowed to be shown to westerners. Bruce Lee was kicked out of the Yip Man school for being quarter German from his mothers side. That is a SECRET that know one can learn Wing Chun who isn't Chinese FROM YIP MAN EVEN THE GREAT BRUCE LEE.
Dude, they don't have ONE SHRED of proof for ANY of Cheung's story. Cheung says he started WC at age 10, lived with Ip for years, was Ip's favorite, was the best of Ip's students, & mastered WC by the age of 18.
There's no proof or corroboration for ANY of it. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
What we do have is a signed statement by 13 of Ip's other students that says Cheung's full of shit.
@TwoGunGunnar if Cheung is full of shit why does he use angling none of the others use it they fight force with force, i think the others were jealous because he got the proper knowledge.
So your argument is, "You need to angle around the wooden dummy, therefore William Cheung was secretly trained in real WC while Ip Man trained all his other students wrong on purpose".
OK...well....I guess I can't argue with logic like that.
@TwoGunGunnar look im not saying that it prooves that his wingchun is the real one im saying that his wing chun does have all the aspects of Ip Man's teachings, thus making it one of the true Wing Chuns... My belief is that Ip Man taught each student differently based on thier strengths and weakness, but i feel that William Cheung and Wong Shun Leung would have the best of the Wing chun because Bruce Lee as said by his student Jesse Glover, were the two he idolised because...
@TwoGunGunnar Of their fighting abillities, thus meaning if there kung fu is tested on the streets then it must be quite effective, where as someone like Leung Ting's Ving Tsun no offence but was an embaresment to all Wing Chun on Fight Quest... They couldnt beat those two guys and they were proper students now if Ip Man fought like that how would he have been such a grea fighter... It leaves only the two that were constantly representing him. He was known to love testing his skill as did...
@TwoGunGunnar William Cheung and Wong Shun Leung its a known fact. So if anyone had the real Wing Chun is going to be either Grandmaster William Cheung or Grandmaster Wong Shun Leung.
Wong Shun Leung was the real deal. No one disputes Wong's skill or character. He was one of the good guys. He was a great man - honest, humble, well-trained, & very knowledgable.
Wong was everything that Cheung is not.
William Cheung is a big fake. Compare his "Bil Jee" form to Wong Shun Leung's. Now compare both of those to ANY of Ip Man's other students, or any Ip Man WC person's Biu Jee. See how Cheung's is radically different? Cheung's a lying scumbag.
Cheungs claim is only important to the point where you look at the idea behind it. I have studied both Modified and Traditional Wing Chun. I can drag my rear foot or step with 50/50 weight distribution. You are so hung up on Cheung you miss the point. It is the method that is important for training. And not having balance and co ordination underpinning your training is not scientific. Is Wing Chun scientific or not????
I couldn't give a fuck about Ashida Kim. William Cheung is a real person, and there are pictures of him with Ip Man. I really don't need anything else. If he sucked, he wouldn't be around so long.
Ashida Kim is a real person. He's written lots of books and has a wide following. If he sucked he wouldn't be around so long.
Same with Frank Dux. He's been around forever, & there was a movie made about his experience competing in and winning the Kumite. If he sucked, he wouldnt be around so long.
So, by your own standards, you do believe Kim & Dux's stories, right?
So Bruce Lee the man that started an industry and popularized martial arts. brought fame to Wing Chun.To Yip Man to William Cheung. And what kind of stance does he chose to use. A balanced one with evenly distributed weight. A man deemed to be a hundred years ahead of his time uses a balanced stance. The Wing Chun people couldn't work out the use of a balanced stance four hundred years ago?Personally I think they could and they did. I think that Tradition has messed up Wing Chun (Classical Mess)
@cruse9 Wing Chun is not new. Supposedly, they took they best most efficient stuff from Kung-fu and made a new system. I think a real Kung-fu master with 30 years of training will also have Wing Chun plus some other stuff. Personally, I would rather learn Wing Chun in 3 years.
TwoGunGunnar you are so anti Cheung you have missed the point. Cheung made his money off the back of Bruce Lee becomeing a movie star and the interest in Lee. Cheung introduced Lee to Yip Man. Thats the money. Cheung is trying to not a live a lie. like previous generations. However you think it is the other way around. Because if it isn't you have been sold a lie!Tough one, if you are a tell me what to do, tell me what to do, kind of a guy.You need to solve your own problems the clue is BALANCE
@cruse9 I agree! There are 2 schools in my area. One from a student under William Cheung, another under a different branch. The one I go to actually is teaching the moves. The other one has a bunch of people doing lots of exercise and hard-core stuff that is more like MMA. I will stick with the William Cheung style until I find a better one.
Yes, & it is easier to hate Ashida Kim than to learn something. If you havent heard of him, I bet you'd love him:
Ashida Kim is the sole inheritor of Lin Kuei Ninjitsu. He was trained by a mysterious man known only as "Shendai". Shendai's identity must remain secret, because "He was a true Ninja in every sense of the word, hiring out as a mercenary and spy throughout the world and enjoying a succesful and profitable career."
What I KNOW is that SOMEONE is lying about their training. On one hand, you have ALL of Ip's other students, & on the other hand you have Cheung.
SOMEONE's not being square with us, & i don't like being lied to, or sold something that isn't what the salesman says it is.
If you believe Cheung's story of "secret training", "secret knowledge", and being Ip Man's "Chosen One" you're a gullible dumbass. You need to solve your own problems the clue is BEING HONEST WITH YOURSELF.
Hundreds of years ago a cripple is practising his art he has one leg shorter than another which means when he is in stance, he is off balance leaning backwards.Because of his problems he drags his rear foot along when he steps. It is an unfortunate situation but he does his best. Fast forward hundreds years into the future and everyone is leaning backwards and dragging there feet like a cripple.All because it is Tradition!.Any form of sport or fighting is about BALANCED weight to gain leverage
If the guy teaching Ali's secret boxing method was teaching and what he taught improved my skills more than other so called Ali boxing methods it would certainly make me question what was being shown to the general public. The word secret is exactly that SECRET, NOT WIDELY KNOWN TO ALL.
And finally, I suggest you go to Australia and talk to William Cheung about this, take a class or two. If you still hate him after that, that is fine. Otherwise fuck off.
People have talked to William Cheung about this. His answer was to talk all kinds of shit about how awesome he is, how everyone else sucked, and how he was the baddest mo-fo on the planet & he would prove it to anyone, anywhere, anytime. Emin Boztepe took him up on it & Cheung totally failed to deliver.
So, as I said, the only person who knows if the film is the perfect, unmodified, genuine wing chun, is Ip Man. Now if all of his students, the ones from the 50s got together and blessed the video, then I would say ok. Also, I still do not see great differences in the Ip Man film and what William Cheung is doing. So, immitate the film if you like.
All his students from the 50s have gotten together & blessed the video. Watch ANY of them doing the forms & compare it to Ip Man. Or read the VTAA letter denouncing Cheung.
If you don't see great differences in the Ip Man film & Cheung, you should get your eyes examined & train a little more. The difference is readily apparent to anyone with sight & even a modicum of training.
He has a lot of crazy claims, for which there's not only no proof, but there's also evidence contradicting the stuff he says. Where to start? He wasn't Bruce Lee's teacher. He was Lee's classmate. Wong Shun Leung was Bruce Lee's main hands-on instructor, & Ip Man was Lee's sifu. There's more....a lot more....too much to fit into the YouTube comment box. A good summary of William Cheung's claims & what's wrong with them can be found at cheungswingchuntruth . blogspot . com
Here is my lake on William Cheung's way of doing wing chun, regardless of the forms. His forms have more movements, and look prettier at times. However, they along with some of his concepts break wing chun center-line principles. Anyone that has had extensive authentic wing chun training knows that Cheung was taught the original way to do wing chun, or as he refers to it as the modified way, which is a whole other conversation.
Let's clarify our terms. When discussing this, I prefer the term "Ip Man WC" (or "IPWC"). There are other branches & versions of WC, but what we're really talking about is the version of WC that Ip Man taught. It's clear Cheung learned Siu Lim Tao, & POSSIBLY some Chum Kiu & dummy, but all the evidence points to Cheung never learning Biu Jee, the pole, or the knife forms. He took lessons intermittently for 2 or 3 years and then quit, so his education in IPWC is entry level at best.
@WingChunLover2 Here's some other experts demo-ing their forms: watch?v=0YnEm1zaUyE watch?v=BVLs4tuayp0 watch?v=1ckHE4X8yUk watch?v=j0WOEnxFyGA watch?v=B4rDLWIddaU watch?v=c2Cwt9nzasI watch?v=fZLGm9xch44 watch?v=A6aUkY-EqVQ&feature=related watch?v=fZLGm9xch44 Notice how they all do their stuff basically the same....the same as Ip Man. In this day & age, with all these videos on the 'net, how could ANYONE actually believe Cheung's story?
@Nephronial Wow. You have been busy. Everyone doing the form like Ip Man's video, deosn't this just prove my point? Is Ip Man's video authentic? If yes, then I am wrong. If no, then they are all wrong. Who know's what Ip Man put in that video. Great Wing Chun or was it some joke on us all?
Anyone who watches the video knows. He put Siu Lim Tao, Chum Kiu, the pole form & the dummy form.
"...or was it some joke on us all?"
A "joke"? Really? Yeah...Ip Man climbed out of his deathbead in the throes of cancer and committed deliberately bad, fake, bullshit kung fu to film so it would never be destroyed...AS A JOKE. Dude, that's just stupid.
@Nephronial Hahaha. I just watched the Ip Man video. And I see very few differences in the siu lim tao. The differences I see are the types of things that I see modified wing chun people doing. So, was Ip Man saving energy? Do all those so called experts just blindly follow the subtle differences of a video of an ill man? I have no idea. But, I know why William Cheung's hands are higher for some movements, and lower for others.
"I know why William Cheung's hands are higher for some movements, and lower for others."
So do I.
The answer is: because he changed the form.
The answer is not: Because Ip Man taught him a "secret" form.
As to why Cheung's other forms look NOTHING like Ip Man WC: because he never made it that far into the WC system, but in order to sell himself as a Great Master, he had to come up with SOMETHING, so he did. Then he lied about where it came from.
@Nephronial You can't learn from video. I think I am restating, but William Cheung learned in the 50s, Ip Man's video is from the 70s, and this video is from the 80s.
We have no idea what each person was attempting in these videos. Were they trying to be authentic? Were they trying to deceive, were they keeping secrets, were they exposing old secrets? Unless you have some power to see in these people's minds, it's all just your opinion. I don't learn from video.
Ip Man made the video so there would be a record of his system as he actually taught it, so that all of us would be able to tell the difference between real Yip Man Wing Chun versus modified stuff or the teachings of fraudulent instructors like William Cheung. (see the book "116 Wooden Dummy Techniques As Demonstrated By Grandmaster Yip Man", by Yip Chun)
Why else would he record it?
To suggest Yip Man purposefully recorded bad kung fu "as a joke" is really, really stupid.
The people who were around when he filmed it know. Like his son, Ip Chun. According to Ip Chun, he filmed it for the MOST OBVIOUS REASON: so we'd all know what is/is not real Yip Man WC. Why else would he film himself? Not only is the reason self-evident and obvious, but the reason has been documented in a book by his son! Case closed.
(by the way, that book has Ip Man in it, so it's a good reference)
@TwoGunGunnar Are you a lawyer? There are so many assumptions in everything you say. Ip Man's children didn't even reunite with him until the 60s. Ip Man was dying of throat cancer when the film was made. He also used opiom quite alot.
So, let's say you are right. Ip Chun - Daddy, can you please let me film your perfect traditional wing chun style? Ip Man - of course, get the camera.
Then again, Ip Man's brain (If this gets out everyone will know the secrets, better do modified!)
Ip Man climbed out of his deathbed & put deliberately bad WC on film so it would never be destroyed?
So Ip had a bizzarre disfunctional relationship with both his kids to the point he was henpecked into climbing out of his deathbed to make a film, and yet not quite henpecked enough to put real WC on film?
Or maybe Occam's Razor holds, & the simplest most obvious explanation is also true: He put his WC on film as a reference for his students.
@TwoGunGunnar We can keep coming up with reasons why he made the film. But noone knows why. Dude, if you want to spend all your time hating William Cheung, that is fine, but it is a third world mentality. You know, where a guy from the third world looks at a mansion and decides to burn it down. Now, if you live in America, instead of burning down the mansion you would figure out a way to get your own. Can't do that if you sit on youtube all day.
"others might have learned only a few separate movements of Wing Tsun Kuen, but decided to set up a personal gymnasium to teach students, only as an "unqualified instructor", who, in order to cheat their students & other laymen, found it necessary to "create" some Wing Tsun Wooden Dummy movements. That is why Grandmaster Yip Man had finally decided to film his whole set of Wooden Dummy Techniques".
-Ip Chun
Gee, I wonder why Ip made the film? It's a real mystery!
@TwoGunGunnar Dude, were you there? We have his film, but as to why he did it, noone really knows. I am sorry, but I don't trust his sons. They showed up after 30 years when thier father was a drug addict. They seem to be making money off of his name with the Ip Man movies. I 'll bet you believe everything in those movies too.
SOMEONE is lying. That much we have to agree on. SOMEONE is a dirty liar.
Who is it?
It's either Ip Man & Ip Ching & Ip Chun & Wong Shun Leung & Chu Shong Tin & Leung Sheung & Victor Kan and many others,
or it's just William Cheung.
One side has a simple story that makes perfect sense.
The other side has an unlikely story with no evidence that sounds like a Shaw Bros. Kung Fu movie, & requires Ip Man to be insane, his kids assholes & ALL his students oblivious clods.
You don't trust his sons but you DO trust Cheung? You make it sound like Ip & his boys had a disfunctional relationship-they didn't. NO ONE has ever said they did. They just lived in different towns, man. That's all. As for exploiting Ip's name...it's also THEIR name & THEIR family history.
& How is Cheung NOT exploiting Ip's name?
I guess if you're totally committed to Cheung's story being true, I can see how the existence of that footage must be totally baffling.
@TwoGunGunnar More like no relationship for about 30 years. And, they were raised in Communist China. It is not like Los Angeles vs. New York City.
When money gets involved, people do strange things. What sounds better, I made the film to preserve the true wing chun, or I made the film to make some money later.
As I said previously, there are not many major differences with what William Cheung is doing and the Ip Man film. You can't fight with forms, it is to get the tools in place.
Like how William Cheung lies about starting at age 10, living with Ip Man, & being the ONLY person taught a "secret", "traditional" martial art so he can sell himself as a Great Master, & sell books, & sell magical healing ointments, and sell videos, and charge $ for seminars, etc., etc.
@TwoGunGunnar Bruce Lee made money from his own skills. He didn't go around saying pay me because I was taught by Ip Man. The Ip brothers just use the name to promote their crazy movies full of Super Ip Man, who was not even a real person. Then total retards look at those movies and believe in this fictional character, and then sign up for some Ip brothers training. Insane!
@TwoGunGunnar Hahahah. I just looked at the Siu Lim Tao from one of your favorites, and Mr. Cheung does a better job, comparing against the Ip Man video.
Here's a riddle for you.
If Mohammed Ali went to LA to teach a bunch of gang members, and then they all got together 20 years later, would they all agree on what they were taught?
If some guy started claiming to be Ali's best bud from back in the day, & says he was secretly trained by Ali, & now he's out there selling books, videos, & seminars on "Ali's Secret Boxing Method", & there's no proof whatsoever for any of his claims, & people who are known to be Ali's friends all say this guy's full of shit, would you believe him?
If you believe that Ip Man deliberately trained ALL his other students badly for decades except for one kid, whom he trained in SECRET, you're a gullible dumbass. Period. Cheung's story is OBVIOUSLY bullshit.
@TwoGunGunnar That's a pretty weird bottom line. Pretty sure I never said anything about his other students.
It is only the students that learned from Ip Man's film that I have a problem with. You can't learn from video.
And, it is usually the students of those students that are here on YouTube bad mouthing William Cheung. If you like cults, I suggest any Kung-Fu school. Wing Chun is not a cult.
His other students dont claim to be the Chosen One.
Ip's film is a REFERENCE, for POSTERITY. And what about Cheung's vids & books? Why do you watch them?
And yes you are in a cult of personality. When the Beloved Leader says patently absurd things & sells access to Secret Knowledge & you believe him regardless of evidence to the contrary, & regardless of lack of positive evidence, it's a cult. Cheung followers sound just like Scientologists or Young Earth Creationists.
@TwoGunGunnar Actually, I think some of them claim they know the 'real' system, or at least they try to downplay William Cheung's and Bruce Lee's training time from around 6 years down to only 2. Unfortunately, I don't live with my instructor, so I need to look at other materials to see if my forms are close. I prefer to watch my teacher, and then use the videos for reference instead of the other way. I don't question my teacher as to why his form doesn't match the Ip Man video. That's dumb!
@TwoGunGunnar In case you didn't get that. Mohammed Ali is Ip Man, and the gang members are those kids in Hong Kong in the 1950s. And since they were not robots, I am sure each of them learned what they learned. My God, even in my little Wing Chun class people argue over what Sifu just showed up 2 minutes earlier.
Yes he was bruce lee's sihing meaning old brother of kung fu was teaching bruce lee wing chung. :) Reading some of william chungs bio or interviews in magazines.:)
Dude, Cheung lies about that stuff. Yeah it's sad, but William Cheung is one of those guys like Ashida Kim, Frank Dux, or Youtube's own Greg "ChosonNinja" Park. He's a con-man who makes up stories in order to paint himself as some kind of Ultimate Chosen-One Superman Badass.
I am sure william chung was trainned by ip man and while he was under yip man william chung trainned bruce lee :). This is what i hear. Also this is buill gee just different variation because every school of wing chung i see variations of forms different.
@YunSeung no. Wiliam Cheung and Wong Shun Leung specifically trained Bruce Lee, not only as his seniors, but in also that Bruce looked up to both of them as the fighters.
William Cheung would have us believe he taught Lee everything he knew, but that's more than a slight exaggeration. Cheung introduced Lee to WC, & probably showed him a bit of it while they were hanging out, but that's not nearly the same thing as what Cheung likes to claim.
The fact is Ip Man & Wong Shun Leung trained Lee. Not Cheung.
Oh not if you listen to the stuff Cheung says. Cheung would have us believe that he and Bruce Lee were not only BFF's, but that Bruce Lee had a huge mancrush on Cheung and idolized him because Cheung was oh-so-very badass, and that Cheung taught Bruce Lee everything he knew.
Oh...not only did Bruce Lee idolize William Cheung & have a huge mancrush on him, but Cheung was Ip Man's faaaaaavorite student. Ip Man LOVED William Cheung soooooo much that he adopted Cheung into his own house & Ip loved Cheung soooooo much that he secretly trained Cheung in super-special, super-secret REAL Wing Chun & Ip never showed it to ANYONE else 'cuz they weren't his favorite like Cheung.
Very different this TWC. Just to let you guys think. William 1st form comes close to Ip Man version. But the rest is totally different. Why only the 1st form? ;-)
Seems like many people forget or don't know about Chinese culture. The number 108 is very important in martial art (many styles has 108 movements in their forms). Why does William forms has way more movements, except the 1st? Most Ip Man forms has 108 or can be combined to 108.
The variation is is usually pretty minor. Wong Shun Leung's Biu Jee is different than Ip Ching's, but the differences are minor & there's more in common than there are differences. And, despite the variation, the principles and point of the movements is the same.
Except for Cheung. Cheung's form is NOTHING like ANY of Ip Man's students. Because he made it up, because he was never trained in it. What he's doing is NOT Biu Jee. He's doing something else.
@Nephronial well Cheung's form is certainly more dynamic and applicable. he also released this form to the world first before any other "grandmaster" under Yip Man did. so either Cheung was taught the form differently from Yip Man, or he was enough of a true martial arts genius to "make it up" himself.
I disagree, but that's not a conversation I'm interested in having. It's besides the point.
"he also released this form to the world first before any other "grandmaster" under Yip Man did."
That's true. In fact, he's the ONLY former student of Ip's to EVER do this form. NONE of Ip's other students do anything like this. Because Ip never taught it.
"Genius"? No. It looks like he cobbled this together based on what he saw more advanced students doing.
do u guys watch Bruce Lee doin biu tze ? is not about original but traditional... there were many way u can change the form a little to suit u" & thats why hes the jeet kune do founder !
It's obvious this guy was never trained in Biu Jee, and made this form up himself.
Anyone from ANY branch of the Ip Man lineage can see this. Doesn't matter if you're a Leung Ting guy, or Wong Shun Leung, Tsui Shong Tin, or Ip Ching/Chun, or Hawkins Cheung, or whatever branch....we ALL know this is made up, and Willy has no idea what he'd doing.
About the comment about power and rotation, I know Wing Chun isn't the greatest example due to its linear movements, but, do some studies into Tai Chi. True power not only just comes from the hips, but begins the toes/feet to the knee to the hip to the entire upper body. When everything moves properly and in synchronization the force that can be projected dwarfs that which can be achieved with just simple rotation. Adding movements causes power to lessen, shortening them causes speed/power.
Power comes from rotation, not twisting the hips and stepping everywhere like he does.... If you really want to see a nice Biu Gee form, see Sifu Ma Kee Fai : cwG8xLTKkUs
Sure, but did they lie about it? No. I go to an Ip Ching school, and Ching's made a few different little adjustments to the form...but he's HONEST about it. He says "Here's what I changed and why. Use it if you want."
Cheung doesn't do that. He says his stuff looks different because Ip Man taught him, and him alone, a different, "secret", "traditional" version.
He LIES.
It's all BS. He made this form himself so he could pretend to be a master.
All a bit pointless they were on the floor o.k. if they where jujutsu practitioners. But they do Wing Chun. So stand them up then we can see. But as that never happened pointless.
Only Wing Chun people will argue about whos got the original training method. At least the boxers dont argue about who invented hiting the heavy bag or focus mitts first. Or say that they hit the focus pads the best way and everyone else hits it wrong. Who Caressssssssss.
I hear what you're saying, but let's look at this in a different context.
Say some boxer falsly claimed to be secretly trained by Muhammed Ali, told a bunch of fake stories about how he & Ali were best buds, & exploited Ali's name for marketing purposes. Now he charges a bunch of $ for "Authentic Ali's Boxing Method".
Would you say "Who Caresssssssss" then, or would you call the con-man on his bullshit?
@cruse9 i think they dont argue cause then they have to test it out for real in a fight, where as these guys just let each talk their theories and stuff they all work just depends how u use it i reckon im under Grandmaster Cheung's and i explore the other forms just to see what the differences are and the good stuff in there forms but i agree who cares who has the reall one, if they care they should hold comps for Wing Chun.
I've heard from several Wing Chun sources, that the Yips (Yip Man's sons) did not train directly from their father as thoroughly as others and that's why his sons, even though they were his blood, aren't "THE BEST", but certainly do hold authority in WING CHUN.
Cant say about ip chun, but ip ching definately lived and trained with his father in the later years and still to this day lives in the house where ip man taught. he used to assist his fathers teaching and i have seen photos where ip man is teaching others and ip ching can be seen at the edges of the shot
For Cheung's story to be true, Ip HAD to have a bad relationship with his sons, otherwise Ip would have taught THEM the super-secret "Traditional" WC instead of Cheung. I mean, why would Ip favor some arrogant kid-off-the-street over his own flesh-&-blood? Cheung's story just doesn't hold water unless the Ip Bros both sucked at WC, weren't interested in or didnt get along with their dad.
The only other possibility it that Cheung's full of shit, and that just can't be! It CAN'T BE!
What you say is somewhat true. Compare Wong Shun Leung & Ip Ching. Wong started around '51 or '52 & trained with Ip until Ip died 20 years later. So Wong learned from Ip Man for ~20 years. Ip Ching learned WC when he was a little kid, then moved away from his dad. He resumed training under Ip Man in 1962 & trained with him for 10 years. So Wong had 20 years, & Ching "only" had TEN YEARS of adult training from his dad.
Compare either of those to William Cheung's 3 years.
He's a liar, claims to be some inheritor to the "Proper" Wing Chun system. Why would Yip Man teach him instead of his sons? He just changed the whole of Wing Chun. To prove he's a liar, he said he lived with Yip Man in the 50's, yet Chu Shong Tin was training with Yip in his house and he has stated that Cheung never lived with Yip during that period. None of Yip's students approve of his version of Wing Chun and his rubbish claims, and neither does the International Wing Chun Association.
'llunchbox' - possibly one of the most salient comments i've read in the perpetual wc debate. My master learned from a student of bill cheung, the late derek jones, who had already made 'improvements' to the system with a few tweaks here and there. However my master tested what he learned against many other systems, and, although near perfect, found a few gaps, so he in turn made a few tweaks to his teaching. I love the old stories, but perhaps we should think in terms of 'martial evolution'
Hey everybody, both spectators and internet warriors, here's an idea; why don't we all try and find a video of Yip Man's sifu, Chan Wah Shun, doing the Bil Jee, then compare it to a video of Yip Man's Bil Jee, and then bad mouth Yip Man, because his isn't the "original." Lets do that all the way up to Ng Mui, I bet they were doing the cave man version of this. We'd all be screwed if we were learning Ng Mui's wing chun.
OK. Let's pretend we do what you say, & Ip's stuff is different. Would Ip say "It's different because I changed it", or would he say "It's different because I and I alone was taught a secret version of WC by Chan. What you see Chan doing on tape is the Decoy version of WC."
If Cheung would just admit that what he does doesn't come from Ip then no one would have a problem with him, but he LIES about it. THAT's the problem.
William Cheung=One of a handful of Yip Man's private students. GM Yip taught him many things that those of you training today will never ever see. Your watered down Wing Chun is only a shell of what it once was. So when you say ignorant shit like "it doesn't look good" etc. keep in mind your Sifu only wishes he/she had the knowledge of Master Cheung. And if your sifu is a westerner, you're learning even less than you realize.
Mr Cheung's biu tze is certainly different from what I have learned (descended directly from Grand Master Leung Sheung) and those that I have watched from a number of Grand master Tsui Sheung Tin, Wong Shun Leung and Leung Ting. I am not suggesting that Mr Cheung is wrong, but his biu tze is vastly different from those who are immediate students of Grand Master Yip Man.
Beaten? Or jumped from behind during a seminar by a coward who fled when challenged to stay and fight without witnesses or cameramen in the room. (I guess Emin didn't want to die...) Speak to Emin now or read the recent interview with him about this incident. He regrets this low act that his Ex-sifu LT told him to do. Good on you Emin for growing wiser as you aged. I do hope karma sees some asshole attack him from behind in the middle of a class.
Emin is a thug and a bully, there's no question about that. But Cheung is a lying, ego-maniacal loudmouth & he deserved every bit of that asskicking, even if it was at the hands of Boztepe.
William Cheung issued an open challenge to fight anyone, anytime, anywhere. Boztepe took him up on it. When a person issues an open challeng like that, there are NO EXCUSES.
Nonsense! Considering he was jumped from behind without warning, its interesting how Boztepe ended up with a dodgy arm henceforth and Cheung was more or less unscathed, as witnesses will confirm. Don't be blinded by the WT propaganda machine
How do you square his forms with the footage of Ip Man doing Chum Kiu & the dummy form? They look TOTALLY different.
How come Ip Man didt teach ANYONE else except Cheung the "traditional" WC? There were guys who'd been with Ip Man longer and were very loyal, hardworking, honest men, like Wong Shun Leung. Was their $ not as good as Cheungs? Why would he teach a noob kid and no one else?!
Really? So how come Ip Man bothered to commit the "modified", "crap-version" of WC to film a couple weeks before he died? Seems like kind of a weird thing to do....to climb out of his deathbed &, in the throes of cancer, record the fake WC.
Why didn't Ip Man record the "real" WC & send it off to Cheung as proof of Cheung's legitimacy?
Like all of Cheung's story, it doesnt make any sense.
This Biu Ji looks wrong to me, not about the sequence, but about thte adherence to the Wing Chun principles.
He simply broke all the body structure, and could not express the explosive force of Biu Ji. And he could not demonstrate the "Emergency Hand" principles either.
blind guys always say 'something looks wrong to me' because they 'v never seen it before, lol. And u tell me buddy, all the WC principles that u know or memorize!
That's because he was never trained in Biu Jee. He made this form up himself, and had no idea what he was doing. It's good enough to impress noobs and kids, though, and if noobs and kids are impressed enough, they'll pay for lessons and buy his crap books. By the time they find out he's a fraud, they're too invested to admit they've been bullshitted.
There are many great masters of wingchun in the modified style but only one grand master in the real style and that's Willy, he didn't make all this up you know. Yipman passed on the real deal to him and only him.
William trained privately with yipman and packed his opium cones. He is the sole inheriter and last 'grand master' of the real Yipman style wingchun. The 'T' stance in traditonal wingchun kicks ass over 'modified' wingchun. Bruce was smart enough to figure out that he had been taught an 'inferior' modified wingchun style (lacking sideways movemant) than willy and changed it accordingly to form JKD.
Well, considering you obviously don't know he's always been full of shit and was never trained by yip man to anything like the degree he claims you must think he's far better than he is.
Says alot for your skill...maybe leung ting's alternate bullshit would perhaps also suit you?
It's funny how the 2 biggest names in WC are also the 2 biggest turds. On one hand you have William "The Chosen One" Cheung with all his BS, then you've got Ting who labels himself "The Master of Almightiness", and keeps spewing his own bs about being "The Last Closed Door Student" of Ip Man. Ting's deviant pervert, too.
Apparently douchebaggery & good business sense go together.
Learning Wing Chun Kung Fu has helped me to understand how to gather energy and I have been able to use this energy or Chi to help the body to heal. The Difference is I actually understand how the healing takes place at the cell level thanks to my Father Dr C. Samuel West. and the Free Lessons now you can to.
Why does Ip Chun and William Cheung preform Biu Jee differently??
super5ickwidi7 1 day ago
Yip Man did not hold back when he taught William Chueng - who was his best student,William lived with Yip Man for 4 years to learn the complete Original system @ was not allowed to teach the pure Wing Chun untill after Yip Man`s death,do not be mislead pure Wing Chun is very effective in a street fight or againts othere styles if you train hard daily @ William Chueng who is a senior to bruce Lee speaks the truth,bruce witnessed how deadly William was in a street fight againts the Triad Gangs.
25royroy 6 months ago
Cheung's Wing Chun is truly awful, if you want to get beat up in a street fight try using it! It is obvious from films of Yip Man that Cheung's style is very very different to what he taught (films of Yip Man at the end of his life so he himself did not change it any further). The footwork, arm positions, strategy in Cheung's Wing Chun just plain terrible and very unrealistic for a real fight. After Boztepe beat him up Cheung students must be in denial his Wing Chun is any good or practical.
CloudsBeyond 7 months ago
really who cares guys just train
MrJasonBkn 7 months ago 2
Very interesting with the stepping motions during the Biu Sau section. I haven't seen that before. The kicking section and stepping Gaan Sau was a bit different too :)
To step instead of spinning.. I can see the application..
intirayami 11 months ago
Are you Chinese TwoGunGunner? if not Yip Man would not have taught you. Wing Chun would be a SECRET that you would not be allowed to know back in the 1950's.
If Yip Man can chose to keep a secret from all races except the Chinese. It sets a precident that he is very particular with who he shares his art. There is no mystery about that.
cruse9 1 year ago
If Yip Man can bow to pressure and kick Bruce out of the Wing Chun school for not being full chinese, even though he liked Bruce. Do you think, I mean do you THINK? he might not want to teach his full knowledge of Traditional Wing Chun to the Chinese public and teach just the next person in private who he will pass on to in the Traditional way just as the previous Grandmasters did back to Ng Mui just one person. In each generation. How do you have a Grandmaster if everyone knows all????
cruse9 1 year ago
A shred of proof lies in the martial arts system called Traditional Wing Chun. You have to understand the ideas and how they relate otherwise it means nothing too you. If you don't know and because of that not derived a benefit from it, It is as secret to you just as if you weren't allowed to learn it. The only difference is that it is now available to learn. There is no argument here you just have to learn both versions then you have a balanced view.
cruse9 1 year ago
What is a martial arts system? It is a collection of movements and ideas with a philosophy. That is all it is. Everyone knows that modified Wing Chun faces centreline to centreline and fights square on and leans back dragging the rear foot. Traditional Wing Chun steps on the ball of the foot has evenly distributed weight faces the point of contact on the blocks and counter attacks on the central line all demonstratable. The history is not that important the benefit gained from the ideas is!
cruse9 1 year ago
So Cheung sees the whole Wing Chun system then decides he will create a parrallel version he then makes the weight distribution 50/50 for better balance and co-ordination steps on the balls of the feet and avoids fighting force with force. Fights his opponent at an angle the same angles the Wooden Dummy provides. Or Perhaps the earliest Wing Chun has better balance and footwork and perhaps Cheung is telling the truth.
cruse9 1 year ago
Modified Wing Chun states that you face your opponent Centreline to Centreline and fight in the middle. If that is the case why have angles on the Wooden Dummy just face it head on and move into it and back out and back in again. If you fight centreline to centreline you don't need angles because you arent using any. You don't need a young orphan girl to come up with fighting head on. force on force centreline to centreline. She has to avoid force and fight her opponent at an angle.
cruse9 1 year ago
Thats right they all knew the secret and everyone is doing it. No. You havn't been listening know one else was taught this version by Yip Man. So no you won't see anyone else doing it from Yip Man's lineage. SECRET means not known to everybody including you..The fake shock you guys post is funny "This is not the way we do Wing Chun!". You werent ment to know it, and looking at the form wont make you any the wiser either as you dont know the fundemental principle. No medicine for ignorance
cruse9 1 year ago
@cruse9
"...know one else was taught this version by Yip Man."
That's stupid. Claims of "secret teaching" are ALWAYS stupid bullshit.
ALWAYS.
There's NO reason to believe it, & TONS of reasons not to.
In 2011, with the sort of easy access to information & easy instant communication provided by the 'net, there's no excuse for believing that dumb story. Anyone who does is either a completely gullible fool, or deliberately lying to themselvs.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar The problem is the internet wasn't invented 50 years ago and Chinese systems were closely guarded secrets. Not even allowed to be shown to westerners. Bruce Lee was kicked out of the Yip Man school for being quarter German from his mothers side. That is a SECRET that know one can learn Wing Chun who isn't Chinese FROM YIP MAN EVEN THE GREAT BRUCE LEE.
cruse9 1 year ago
@cruse9
Dude, how old are you?
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
Please just show me one video of ANY other Yip Man student doing the form this way. Oh yeah, that's right, you can't because it doesn't exist.
gosoku2 1 year ago
@gosoku2
Dude, they don't have ONE SHRED of proof for ANY of Cheung's story. Cheung says he started WC at age 10, lived with Ip for years, was Ip's favorite, was the best of Ip's students, & mastered WC by the age of 18.
There's no proof or corroboration for ANY of it. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
What we do have is a signed statement by 13 of Ip's other students that says Cheung's full of shit.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar if Cheung is full of shit why does he use angling none of the others use it they fight force with force, i think the others were jealous because he got the proper knowledge.
MrSinantra 8 months ago
@TwoGunGunnar lol The wooden Dummy is proof with in its self, you need to angle around it not just rush in straight ahead.
MrSinantra 8 months ago
@MrSinantra
So your argument is, "You need to angle around the wooden dummy, therefore William Cheung was secretly trained in real WC while Ip Man trained all his other students wrong on purpose".
OK...well....I guess I can't argue with logic like that.
TwoGunGunnar 8 months ago
@TwoGunGunnar look im not saying that it prooves that his wingchun is the real one im saying that his wing chun does have all the aspects of Ip Man's teachings, thus making it one of the true Wing Chuns... My belief is that Ip Man taught each student differently based on thier strengths and weakness, but i feel that William Cheung and Wong Shun Leung would have the best of the Wing chun because Bruce Lee as said by his student Jesse Glover, were the two he idolised because...
MrSinantra 8 months ago
@TwoGunGunnar Of their fighting abillities, thus meaning if there kung fu is tested on the streets then it must be quite effective, where as someone like Leung Ting's Ving Tsun no offence but was an embaresment to all Wing Chun on Fight Quest... They couldnt beat those two guys and they were proper students now if Ip Man fought like that how would he have been such a grea fighter... It leaves only the two that were constantly representing him. He was known to love testing his skill as did...
MrSinantra 8 months ago
@TwoGunGunnar William Cheung and Wong Shun Leung its a known fact. So if anyone had the real Wing Chun is going to be either Grandmaster William Cheung or Grandmaster Wong Shun Leung.
MrSinantra 8 months ago
@MrSinantra
Wong Shun Leung was the real deal. No one disputes Wong's skill or character. He was one of the good guys. He was a great man - honest, humble, well-trained, & very knowledgable.
Wong was everything that Cheung is not.
William Cheung is a big fake. Compare his "Bil Jee" form to Wong Shun Leung's. Now compare both of those to ANY of Ip Man's other students, or any Ip Man WC person's Biu Jee. See how Cheung's is radically different? Cheung's a lying scumbag.
TwoGunGunnar 8 months ago
@MrSinantra
Wong Shun Leung was the real deal.
William Cheung is not.
TwoGunGunnar 7 months ago
@TwoGunGunnar ok think what you want man, i know William Cheungs Wing Chun and works very good I'm happy thats all that matters really.
MrSinantra 7 months ago
Cheungs claim is only important to the point where you look at the idea behind it. I have studied both Modified and Traditional Wing Chun. I can drag my rear foot or step with 50/50 weight distribution. You are so hung up on Cheung you miss the point. It is the method that is important for training. And not having balance and co ordination underpinning your training is not scientific. Is Wing Chun scientific or not????
cruse9 1 year ago
I couldn't give a fuck about Ashida Kim. William Cheung is a real person, and there are pictures of him with Ip Man. I really don't need anything else. If he sucked, he wouldn't be around so long.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
Ashida Kim is a real person. He's written lots of books and has a wide following. If he sucked he wouldn't be around so long.
Same with Frank Dux. He's been around forever, & there was a movie made about his experience competing in and winning the Kumite. If he sucked, he wouldnt be around so long.
So, by your own standards, you do believe Kim & Dux's stories, right?
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
So Bruce Lee the man that started an industry and popularized martial arts. brought fame to Wing Chun.To Yip Man to William Cheung. And what kind of stance does he chose to use. A balanced one with evenly distributed weight. A man deemed to be a hundred years ahead of his time uses a balanced stance. The Wing Chun people couldn't work out the use of a balanced stance four hundred years ago?Personally I think they could and they did. I think that Tradition has messed up Wing Chun (Classical Mess)
cruse9 1 year ago
@cruse9 Wing Chun is not new. Supposedly, they took they best most efficient stuff from Kung-fu and made a new system. I think a real Kung-fu master with 30 years of training will also have Wing Chun plus some other stuff. Personally, I would rather learn Wing Chun in 3 years.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
TwoGunGunnar you are so anti Cheung you have missed the point. Cheung made his money off the back of Bruce Lee becomeing a movie star and the interest in Lee. Cheung introduced Lee to Yip Man. Thats the money. Cheung is trying to not a live a lie. like previous generations. However you think it is the other way around. Because if it isn't you have been sold a lie!Tough one, if you are a tell me what to do, tell me what to do, kind of a guy.You need to solve your own problems the clue is BALANCE
cruse9 1 year ago
@cruse9 I agree! There are 2 schools in my area. One from a student under William Cheung, another under a different branch. The one I go to actually is teaching the moves. The other one has a bunch of people doing lots of exercise and hard-core stuff that is more like MMA. I will stick with the William Cheung style until I find a better one.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@cruse9 It is easier for him to hate William Cheung than to learn something. It has been that way thoughout human history.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
Yes, & it is easier to hate Ashida Kim than to learn something. If you havent heard of him, I bet you'd love him:
Ashida Kim is the sole inheritor of Lin Kuei Ninjitsu. He was trained by a mysterious man known only as "Shendai". Shendai's identity must remain secret, because "He was a true Ninja in every sense of the word, hiring out as a mercenary and spy throughout the world and enjoying a succesful and profitable career."
You can't beat credentials like that, can ya?
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar Lol! I like this one.
lucidmist 11 months ago
@cruse9
What I KNOW is that SOMEONE is lying about their training. On one hand, you have ALL of Ip's other students, & on the other hand you have Cheung.
SOMEONE's not being square with us, & i don't like being lied to, or sold something that isn't what the salesman says it is.
If you believe Cheung's story of "secret training", "secret knowledge", and being Ip Man's "Chosen One" you're a gullible dumbass. You need to solve your own problems the clue is BEING HONEST WITH YOURSELF.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
Hundreds of years ago a cripple is practising his art he has one leg shorter than another which means when he is in stance, he is off balance leaning backwards.Because of his problems he drags his rear foot along when he steps. It is an unfortunate situation but he does his best. Fast forward hundreds years into the future and everyone is leaning backwards and dragging there feet like a cripple.All because it is Tradition!.Any form of sport or fighting is about BALANCED weight to gain leverage
cruse9 1 year ago
If the guy teaching Ali's secret boxing method was teaching and what he taught improved my skills more than other so called Ali boxing methods it would certainly make me question what was being shown to the general public. The word secret is exactly that SECRET, NOT WIDELY KNOWN TO ALL.
cruse9 1 year ago
And finally, I suggest you go to Australia and talk to William Cheung about this, take a class or two. If you still hate him after that, that is fine. Otherwise fuck off.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
People have talked to William Cheung about this. His answer was to talk all kinds of shit about how awesome he is, how everyone else sucked, and how he was the baddest mo-fo on the planet & he would prove it to anyone, anywhere, anytime. Emin Boztepe took him up on it & Cheung totally failed to deliver.
Fuck you too.
: )
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
So, as I said, the only person who knows if the film is the perfect, unmodified, genuine wing chun, is Ip Man. Now if all of his students, the ones from the 50s got together and blessed the video, then I would say ok. Also, I still do not see great differences in the Ip Man film and what William Cheung is doing. So, immitate the film if you like.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
All his students from the 50s have gotten together & blessed the video. Watch ANY of them doing the forms & compare it to Ip Man. Or read the VTAA letter denouncing Cheung.
If you don't see great differences in the Ip Man film & Cheung, you should get your eyes examined & train a little more. The difference is readily apparent to anyone with sight & even a modicum of training.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar Of course, the one's that learned Wing Chun from the video look exactly the same!
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
He did say he was bruce lees teacher. What are other claims?
tombslasher 1 year ago
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@tombslasher
He has a lot of crazy claims, for which there's not only no proof, but there's also evidence contradicting the stuff he says. Where to start? He wasn't Bruce Lee's teacher. He was Lee's classmate. Wong Shun Leung was Bruce Lee's main hands-on instructor, & Ip Man was Lee's sifu. There's more....a lot more....too much to fit into the YouTube comment box. A good summary of William Cheung's claims & what's wrong with them can be found at cheungswingchuntruth . blogspot . com
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
He is not fake or liar. He is the real thing. :)
tombslasher 1 year ago
@tombslasher
Do you know exactly what his claims are?
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
Here is my lake on William Cheung's way of doing wing chun, regardless of the forms. His forms have more movements, and look prettier at times. However, they along with some of his concepts break wing chun center-line principles. Anyone that has had extensive authentic wing chun training knows that Cheung was taught the original way to do wing chun, or as he refers to it as the modified way, which is a whole other conversation.
boothdos 1 year ago
@boothdos
Let's clarify our terms. When discussing this, I prefer the term "Ip Man WC" (or "IPWC"). There are other branches & versions of WC, but what we're really talking about is the version of WC that Ip Man taught. It's clear Cheung learned Siu Lim Tao, & POSSIBLY some Chum Kiu & dummy, but all the evidence points to Cheung never learning Biu Jee, the pole, or the knife forms. He took lessons intermittently for 2 or 3 years and then quit, so his education in IPWC is entry level at best.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
There are videos of William Cheung from the 60s till today. I would like to see
those other experts demo their forms.
I saw a video of Liang Ting the other day, and he looked retarded.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial Wow. You have been busy. Everyone doing the form like Ip Man's video, deosn't this just prove my point? Is Ip Man's video authentic? If yes, then I am wrong. If no, then they are all wrong. Who know's what Ip Man put in that video. Great Wing Chun or was it some joke on us all?
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
"Is Ip Man's video authentic"?
I think so. I mean....it IS him.
"Who knows what Ip Man put in that video"
Anyone who watches the video knows. He put Siu Lim Tao, Chum Kiu, the pole form & the dummy form.
"...or was it some joke on us all?"
A "joke"? Really? Yeah...Ip Man climbed out of his deathbead in the throes of cancer and committed deliberately bad, fake, bullshit kung fu to film so it would never be destroyed...AS A JOKE. Dude, that's just stupid.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial Hahaha. I just watched the Ip Man video. And I see very few differences in the siu lim tao. The differences I see are the types of things that I see modified wing chun people doing. So, was Ip Man saving energy? Do all those so called experts just blindly follow the subtle differences of a video of an ill man? I have no idea. But, I know why William Cheung's hands are higher for some movements, and lower for others.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
"I know why William Cheung's hands are higher for some movements, and lower for others."
So do I.
The answer is: because he changed the form.
The answer is not: Because Ip Man taught him a "secret" form.
As to why Cheung's other forms look NOTHING like Ip Man WC: because he never made it that far into the WC system, but in order to sell himself as a Great Master, he had to come up with SOMETHING, so he did. Then he lied about where it came from.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial You can't learn from video. I think I am restating, but William Cheung learned in the 50s, Ip Man's video is from the 70s, and this video is from the 80s.
We have no idea what each person was attempting in these videos. Were they trying to be authentic? Were they trying to deceive, were they keeping secrets, were they exposing old secrets? Unless you have some power to see in these people's minds, it's all just your opinion. I don't learn from video.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
Ip Man made the video so there would be a record of his system as he actually taught it, so that all of us would be able to tell the difference between real Yip Man Wing Chun versus modified stuff or the teachings of fraudulent instructors like William Cheung. (see the book "116 Wooden Dummy Techniques As Demonstrated By Grandmaster Yip Man", by Yip Chun)
Why else would he record it?
To suggest Yip Man purposefully recorded bad kung fu "as a joke" is really, really stupid.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar Only Ip Man knows why he made the video, and only he knows what was put in it. To compare his video to other videos is pointless.
And, I hope you are not learning wooden dummy from a book. You will miss the transitions between moves if you don't get real training.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
"Only Ip Man knows"? That's a dumb thing to say.
The people who were around when he filmed it know. Like his son, Ip Chun. According to Ip Chun, he filmed it for the MOST OBVIOUS REASON: so we'd all know what is/is not real Yip Man WC. Why else would he film himself? Not only is the reason self-evident and obvious, but the reason has been documented in a book by his son! Case closed.
(by the way, that book has Ip Man in it, so it's a good reference)
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar Are you a lawyer? There are so many assumptions in everything you say. Ip Man's children didn't even reunite with him until the 60s. Ip Man was dying of throat cancer when the film was made. He also used opiom quite alot.
So, let's say you are right. Ip Chun - Daddy, can you please let me film your perfect traditional wing chun style? Ip Man - of course, get the camera.
Then again, Ip Man's brain (If this gets out everyone will know the secrets, better do modified!)
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
That doesnt make any sense.
Ip Man climbed out of his deathbed & put deliberately bad WC on film so it would never be destroyed?
So Ip had a bizzarre disfunctional relationship with both his kids to the point he was henpecked into climbing out of his deathbed to make a film, and yet not quite henpecked enough to put real WC on film?
Or maybe Occam's Razor holds, & the simplest most obvious explanation is also true: He put his WC on film as a reference for his students.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar We can keep coming up with reasons why he made the film. But noone knows why. Dude, if you want to spend all your time hating William Cheung, that is fine, but it is a third world mentality. You know, where a guy from the third world looks at a mansion and decides to burn it down. Now, if you live in America, instead of burning down the mansion you would figure out a way to get your own. Can't do that if you sit on youtube all day.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
Comment removed
Nephronial 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
"others might have learned only a few separate movements of Wing Tsun Kuen, but decided to set up a personal gymnasium to teach students, only as an "unqualified instructor", who, in order to cheat their students & other laymen, found it necessary to "create" some Wing Tsun Wooden Dummy movements. That is why Grandmaster Yip Man had finally decided to film his whole set of Wooden Dummy Techniques".
-Ip Chun
Gee, I wonder why Ip made the film? It's a real mystery!
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar Dude, were you there? We have his film, but as to why he did it, noone really knows. I am sorry, but I don't trust his sons. They showed up after 30 years when thier father was a drug addict. They seem to be making money off of his name with the Ip Man movies. I 'll bet you believe everything in those movies too.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
SOMEONE is lying. That much we have to agree on. SOMEONE is a dirty liar.
Who is it?
It's either Ip Man & Ip Ching & Ip Chun & Wong Shun Leung & Chu Shong Tin & Leung Sheung & Victor Kan and many others,
or it's just William Cheung.
One side has a simple story that makes perfect sense.
The other side has an unlikely story with no evidence that sounds like a Shaw Bros. Kung Fu movie, & requires Ip Man to be insane, his kids assholes & ALL his students oblivious clods.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
You don't trust his sons but you DO trust Cheung? You make it sound like Ip & his boys had a disfunctional relationship-they didn't. NO ONE has ever said they did. They just lived in different towns, man. That's all. As for exploiting Ip's name...it's also THEIR name & THEIR family history.
& How is Cheung NOT exploiting Ip's name?
I guess if you're totally committed to Cheung's story being true, I can see how the existence of that footage must be totally baffling.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar More like no relationship for about 30 years. And, they were raised in Communist China. It is not like Los Angeles vs. New York City.
When money gets involved, people do strange things. What sounds better, I made the film to preserve the true wing chun, or I made the film to make some money later.
As I said previously, there are not many major differences with what William Cheung is doing and the Ip Man film. You can't fight with forms, it is to get the tools in place.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
"When $ gets involved..."
EXACTLY!
Like how William Cheung lies about starting at age 10, living with Ip Man, & being the ONLY person taught a "secret", "traditional" martial art so he can sell himself as a Great Master, & sell books, & sell magical healing ointments, and sell videos, and charge $ for seminars, etc., etc.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar Hey man. even Bruce Lee made some cash from his Wing Chun. It aint against the law.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
But waitasec...I thought one of the reasons you didn't trust either of the Ip Bros. was because of all the $ they were making off their dad?
Didn't you JUST frame an argument questioning the Ip Bros.' credibility around "When money gets involved, people do strange things"?
You can't have it both ways, man.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar Bruce Lee made money from his own skills. He didn't go around saying pay me because I was taught by Ip Man. The Ip brothers just use the name to promote their crazy movies full of Super Ip Man, who was not even a real person. Then total retards look at those movies and believe in this fictional character, and then sign up for some Ip brothers training. Insane!
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar Hahahah. I just looked at the Siu Lim Tao from one of your favorites, and Mr. Cheung does a better job, comparing against the Ip Man video.
Here's a riddle for you.
If Mohammed Ali went to LA to teach a bunch of gang members, and then they all got together 20 years later, would they all agree on what they were taught?
That's the real question you should ask yourself.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
Here's a riddle for YOU:
If some guy started claiming to be Ali's best bud from back in the day, & says he was secretly trained by Ali, & now he's out there selling books, videos, & seminars on "Ali's Secret Boxing Method", & there's no proof whatsoever for any of his claims, & people who are known to be Ali's friends all say this guy's full of shit, would you believe him?
(My guess is you would.)
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
Ha ha ha!
I just watched Ip Man doing the dummy & chum kiu, & compared it to Cheung. Cheung fails.
& I just watched Wong Shun Leung doing all the forms & compared it to Cheung. Cheung fails badly.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar You're still just comparing videos retard.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
Here's the bottom line:
If you believe that Ip Man deliberately trained ALL his other students badly for decades except for one kid, whom he trained in SECRET, you're a gullible dumbass. Period. Cheung's story is OBVIOUSLY bullshit.
Have fun in your little cult, dude.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar That's a pretty weird bottom line. Pretty sure I never said anything about his other students.
It is only the students that learned from Ip Man's film that I have a problem with. You can't learn from video.
And, it is usually the students of those students that are here on YouTube bad mouthing William Cheung. If you like cults, I suggest any Kung-Fu school. Wing Chun is not a cult.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
His other students dont claim to be the Chosen One.
Ip's film is a REFERENCE, for POSTERITY. And what about Cheung's vids & books? Why do you watch them?
And yes you are in a cult of personality. When the Beloved Leader says patently absurd things & sells access to Secret Knowledge & you believe him regardless of evidence to the contrary, & regardless of lack of positive evidence, it's a cult. Cheung followers sound just like Scientologists or Young Earth Creationists.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar Actually, I think some of them claim they know the 'real' system, or at least they try to downplay William Cheung's and Bruce Lee's training time from around 6 years down to only 2. Unfortunately, I don't live with my instructor, so I need to look at other materials to see if my forms are close. I prefer to watch my teacher, and then use the videos for reference instead of the other way. I don't question my teacher as to why his form doesn't match the Ip Man video. That's dumb!
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@WingChunLover2
A lot of them claim to know the real system. Because they do. NONE of them claim to be the sole inheritor of a "secret system".
"so I need to look at other materials to see if my forms are close."
You can't learn from a video retard.
"I don't question my teacher...."
I know you don't. None of Cheung's students do. A good cultist never questions his Beloved Leader.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar I will tell you what. Please publish your method of training so we can all see it. If it works I will call you master.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar Yeah. There is a Wong Shun Leung video here too that looks like nothing I have ever seen. Should we call him a fraud too?
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar In case you didn't get that. Mohammed Ali is Ip Man, and the gang members are those kids in Hong Kong in the 1950s. And since they were not robots, I am sure each of them learned what they learned. My God, even in my little Wing Chun class people argue over what Sifu just showed up 2 minutes earlier.
Look up the word 'perspective' in the dictionary.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
"Only he knows what was put in it"?
Dude, how does that statement make any sense? It's a film. We all know what was put in it by virtue of the fact that we can watch the film.
Here's what he put in it - himself performing the Wing Chun forms.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@silicon605 Agree 100%
easy28 1 year ago
Yes he was bruce lee's sihing meaning old brother of kung fu was teaching bruce lee wing chung. :) Reading some of william chungs bio or interviews in magazines.:)
tombslasher 1 year ago
@tombslasher
Dude, Cheung lies about that stuff. Yeah it's sad, but William Cheung is one of those guys like Ashida Kim, Frank Dux, or Youtube's own Greg "ChosonNinja" Park. He's a con-man who makes up stories in order to paint himself as some kind of Ultimate Chosen-One Superman Badass.
Nephronial 1 year ago
looks like he added stepping extras, some handwork, and real-time applications to the Biu Jee form. Interesting.
YunSeung 1 year ago
I am sure william chung was trainned by ip man and while he was under yip man william chung trainned bruce lee :). This is what i hear. Also this is buill gee just different variation because every school of wing chung i see variations of forms different.
tombslasher 1 year ago
@tombslasher uh no, William Cheung was a friend of Bruce lee, not his trainer.
YunSeung 1 year ago
@YunSeung LOL, elders are ALWAYS the main trainers.
fubokuen 1 year ago
@fubokuen But they trained together. In the same way you could say Bruce trained William too.
YunSeung 1 year ago
@YunSeung no. Wiliam Cheung and Wong Shun Leung specifically trained Bruce Lee, not only as his seniors, but in also that Bruce looked up to both of them as the fighters.
venom769 1 year ago
@venom769
William Cheung would have us believe he taught Lee everything he knew, but that's more than a slight exaggeration. Cheung introduced Lee to WC, & probably showed him a bit of it while they were hanging out, but that's not nearly the same thing as what Cheung likes to claim.
The fact is Ip Man & Wong Shun Leung trained Lee. Not Cheung.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@YunSeung
Oh not if you listen to the stuff Cheung says. Cheung would have us believe that he and Bruce Lee were not only BFF's, but that Bruce Lee had a huge mancrush on Cheung and idolized him because Cheung was oh-so-very badass, and that Cheung taught Bruce Lee everything he knew.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@YunSeung
Oh...not only did Bruce Lee idolize William Cheung & have a huge mancrush on him, but Cheung was Ip Man's faaaaaavorite student. Ip Man LOVED William Cheung soooooo much that he adopted Cheung into his own house & Ip loved Cheung soooooo much that he secretly trained Cheung in super-special, super-secret REAL Wing Chun & Ip never showed it to ANYONE else 'cuz they weren't his favorite like Cheung.
Nephronial 1 year ago
Very different this TWC. Just to let you guys think. William 1st form comes close to Ip Man version. But the rest is totally different. Why only the 1st form? ;-)
Seems like many people forget or don't know about Chinese culture. The number 108 is very important in martial art (many styles has 108 movements in their forms). Why does William forms has way more movements, except the 1st? Most Ip Man forms has 108 or can be combined to 108.
eternalspring247 1 year ago
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@eternalspring247
Dude, check out cheungswingchuntruth.blogspot.com
Nephronial 1 year ago
i seen each wing chung school have own variation of forms can get annoying seeing the different schools perform the form differently.
tombslasher 1 year ago
@tombslasher
The variation is is usually pretty minor. Wong Shun Leung's Biu Jee is different than Ip Ching's, but the differences are minor & there's more in common than there are differences. And, despite the variation, the principles and point of the movements is the same.
Except for Cheung. Cheung's form is NOTHING like ANY of Ip Man's students. Because he made it up, because he was never trained in it. What he's doing is NOT Biu Jee. He's doing something else.
Nephronial 1 year ago 3
@Nephronial well Cheung's form is certainly more dynamic and applicable. he also released this form to the world first before any other "grandmaster" under Yip Man did. so either Cheung was taught the form differently from Yip Man, or he was enough of a true martial arts genius to "make it up" himself.
venom769 1 year ago
@venom769
"More dynamic & applicable"
I disagree, but that's not a conversation I'm interested in having. It's besides the point.
"he also released this form to the world first before any other "grandmaster" under Yip Man did."
That's true. In fact, he's the ONLY former student of Ip's to EVER do this form. NONE of Ip's other students do anything like this. Because Ip never taught it.
"Genius"? No. It looks like he cobbled this together based on what he saw more advanced students doing.
Nephronial 1 year ago
do u guys watch Bruce Lee doin biu tze ? is not about original but traditional... there were many way u can change the form a little to suit u" & thats why hes the jeet kune do founder !
tteamexistube 1 year ago
That's not Biu Jee.
It's obvious this guy was never trained in Biu Jee, and made this form up himself.
Anyone from ANY branch of the Ip Man lineage can see this. Doesn't matter if you're a Leung Ting guy, or Wong Shun Leung, Tsui Shong Tin, or Ip Ching/Chun, or Hawkins Cheung, or whatever branch....we ALL know this is made up, and Willy has no idea what he'd doing.
Good enough to impress noobs, though.
Nephronial 1 year ago
About the comment about power and rotation, I know Wing Chun isn't the greatest example due to its linear movements, but, do some studies into Tai Chi. True power not only just comes from the hips, but begins the toes/feet to the knee to the hip to the entire upper body. When everything moves properly and in synchronization the force that can be projected dwarfs that which can be achieved with just simple rotation. Adding movements causes power to lessen, shortening them causes speed/power.
hardfugoo1 2 years ago
Power comes from rotation, not twisting the hips and stepping everywhere like he does.... If you really want to see a nice Biu Gee form, see Sifu Ma Kee Fai : cwG8xLTKkUs
Nikoo033 2 years ago
absolutely the best and most practical version of this form out there.
venom769 2 years ago
@venom769
And absolutely completely made up by Willy.
Nephronial 1 year ago
yip man and his sons changed the forms this is a fact
MrJasonBkn 2 years ago
@MrJasonBkn
Sure, but did they lie about it? No. I go to an Ip Ching school, and Ching's made a few different little adjustments to the form...but he's HONEST about it. He says "Here's what I changed and why. Use it if you want."
Cheung doesn't do that. He says his stuff looks different because Ip Man taught him, and him alone, a different, "secret", "traditional" version.
He LIES.
It's all BS. He made this form himself so he could pretend to be a master.
Nephronial 1 year ago
he perfoms it quite well with very good form
henkbana 2 years ago
Muy mal realizada la forma de la Biu lle .
alejandrocastr 2 years ago
All a bit pointless they were on the floor o.k. if they where jujutsu practitioners. But they do Wing Chun. So stand them up then we can see. But as that never happened pointless.
cruse9 2 years ago
Only Wing Chun people will argue about whos got the original training method. At least the boxers dont argue about who invented hiting the heavy bag or focus mitts first. Or say that they hit the focus pads the best way and everyone else hits it wrong. Who Caressssssssss.
cruse9 2 years ago 7
@cruse9
Simple, profound AND funny all at the same time.
Well said.
mofotax 2 years ago
@cruse9
"Who cares"?
I hear what you're saying, but let's look at this in a different context.
Say some boxer falsly claimed to be secretly trained by Muhammed Ali, told a bunch of fake stories about how he & Ali were best buds, & exploited Ali's name for marketing purposes. Now he charges a bunch of $ for "Authentic Ali's Boxing Method".
Would you say "Who Caresssssssss" then, or would you call the con-man on his bullshit?
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@cruse9 i think they dont argue cause then they have to test it out for real in a fight, where as these guys just let each talk their theories and stuff they all work just depends how u use it i reckon im under Grandmaster Cheung's and i explore the other forms just to see what the differences are and the good stuff in there forms but i agree who cares who has the reall one, if they care they should hold comps for Wing Chun.
MrSinantra 1 year ago
I've heard from several Wing Chun sources, that the Yips (Yip Man's sons) did not train directly from their father as thoroughly as others and that's why his sons, even though they were his blood, aren't "THE BEST", but certainly do hold authority in WING CHUN.
NanquanNYC 2 years ago
Cant say about ip chun, but ip ching definately lived and trained with his father in the later years and still to this day lives in the house where ip man taught. he used to assist his fathers teaching and i have seen photos where ip man is teaching others and ip ching can be seen at the edges of the shot
pyyp23 2 years ago
@pyyp23
For Cheung's story to be true, Ip HAD to have a bad relationship with his sons, otherwise Ip would have taught THEM the super-secret "Traditional" WC instead of Cheung. I mean, why would Ip favor some arrogant kid-off-the-street over his own flesh-&-blood? Cheung's story just doesn't hold water unless the Ip Bros both sucked at WC, weren't interested in or didnt get along with their dad.
The only other possibility it that Cheung's full of shit, and that just can't be! It CAN'T BE!
Nephronial 1 year ago
@NanquanNYC
What you say is somewhat true. Compare Wong Shun Leung & Ip Ching. Wong started around '51 or '52 & trained with Ip until Ip died 20 years later. So Wong learned from Ip Man for ~20 years. Ip Ching learned WC when he was a little kid, then moved away from his dad. He resumed training under Ip Man in 1962 & trained with him for 10 years. So Wong had 20 years, & Ching "only" had TEN YEARS of adult training from his dad.
Compare either of those to William Cheung's 3 years.
Nephronial 1 year ago
He's a liar, claims to be some inheritor to the "Proper" Wing Chun system. Why would Yip Man teach him instead of his sons? He just changed the whole of Wing Chun. To prove he's a liar, he said he lived with Yip Man in the 50's, yet Chu Shong Tin was training with Yip in his house and he has stated that Cheung never lived with Yip during that period. None of Yip's students approve of his version of Wing Chun and his rubbish claims, and neither does the International Wing Chun Association.
TheDevil1912 2 years ago
@TheDevil1912
Yup. The ONLY people who believe Cheung's stories are his students....but why? How can they when Cheung's claims are so ludicrous?
My guess is because they dont know his story until after they've invested time & $ in his school.
By the time they find out, they're too invested emotionally and financially to be honest with themselves.
It's gotta be pretty rough to find out your Kung Fu Hero is a lying bu!!$h!tter.
Nephronial 1 year ago
'llunchbox' - possibly one of the most salient comments i've read in the perpetual wc debate. My master learned from a student of bill cheung, the late derek jones, who had already made 'improvements' to the system with a few tweaks here and there. However my master tested what he learned against many other systems, and, although near perfect, found a few gaps, so he in turn made a few tweaks to his teaching. I love the old stories, but perhaps we should think in terms of 'martial evolution'
elephantarmy 2 years ago
Shitty stance
Vojak3 2 years ago
Hey everybody, both spectators and internet warriors, here's an idea; why don't we all try and find a video of Yip Man's sifu, Chan Wah Shun, doing the Bil Jee, then compare it to a video of Yip Man's Bil Jee, and then bad mouth Yip Man, because his isn't the "original." Lets do that all the way up to Ng Mui, I bet they were doing the cave man version of this. We'd all be screwed if we were learning Ng Mui's wing chun.
llunchbox 2 years ago 7
@llunchbox
OK. Let's pretend we do what you say, & Ip's stuff is different. Would Ip say "It's different because I changed it", or would he say "It's different because I and I alone was taught a secret version of WC by Chan. What you see Chan doing on tape is the Decoy version of WC."
If Cheung would just admit that what he does doesn't come from Ip then no one would have a problem with him, but he LIES about it. THAT's the problem.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
BELIEVING IS SEEING not seeing is believing!!!.
I believe that grandmaster Cheung is talking the truth.Soo choose in what to believe It will still be OK.
cakule 3 years ago
William Cheung=One of a handful of Yip Man's private students. GM Yip taught him many things that those of you training today will never ever see. Your watered down Wing Chun is only a shell of what it once was. So when you say ignorant shit like "it doesn't look good" etc. keep in mind your Sifu only wishes he/she had the knowledge of Master Cheung. And if your sifu is a westerner, you're learning even less than you realize.
Jank143 3 years ago
Mr Cheung's biu tze is certainly different from what I have learned (descended directly from Grand Master Leung Sheung) and those that I have watched from a number of Grand master Tsui Sheung Tin, Wong Shun Leung and Leung Ting. I am not suggesting that Mr Cheung is wrong, but his biu tze is vastly different from those who are immediate students of Grand Master Yip Man.
goldwing8888 2 years ago
William Cheung was beaten by Emin Boztepe (Leung Ting Wing Tsun)
Vojak3 2 years ago
Beaten? Or jumped from behind during a seminar by a coward who fled when challenged to stay and fight without witnesses or cameramen in the room. (I guess Emin didn't want to die...) Speak to Emin now or read the recent interview with him about this incident. He regrets this low act that his Ex-sifu LT told him to do. Good on you Emin for growing wiser as you aged. I do hope karma sees some asshole attack him from behind in the middle of a class.
sifuphil1 2 years ago 2
@sifuphil1
Emin is a thug and a bully, there's no question about that. But Cheung is a lying, ego-maniacal loudmouth & he deserved every bit of that asskicking, even if it was at the hands of Boztepe.
William Cheung issued an open challenge to fight anyone, anytime, anywhere. Boztepe took him up on it. When a person issues an open challeng like that, there are NO EXCUSES.
Nephronial 1 year ago
Nonsense! Considering he was jumped from behind without warning, its interesting how Boztepe ended up with a dodgy arm henceforth and Cheung was more or less unscathed, as witnesses will confirm. Don't be blinded by the WT propaganda machine
elephantarmy 2 years ago
in a fight were cheung wasnt ready, but boztepe was, so this makes the fight invalid :)
GreenDragonMMA 2 years ago
Boztepe was only Technician (Teacher) and your Cheung GRANDMASTER. He lost.
Vojak3 2 years ago
??!?? How you dare to think, that Cheung knows some ''secrets''? He told you that or something?! tzz..
Vojak3 2 years ago
@Jank143
That's what Cheung says, but he lies.
How do you square his forms with the footage of Ip Man doing Chum Kiu & the dummy form? They look TOTALLY different.
How come Ip Man didt teach ANYONE else except Cheung the "traditional" WC? There were guys who'd been with Ip Man longer and were very loyal, hardworking, honest men, like Wong Shun Leung. Was their $ not as good as Cheungs? Why would he teach a noob kid and no one else?!
Makes no sense.
What does make sense: Cheung's a liar.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Jank143
Really? So how come Ip Man bothered to commit the "modified", "crap-version" of WC to film a couple weeks before he died? Seems like kind of a weird thing to do....to climb out of his deathbed &, in the throes of cancer, record the fake WC.
Why didn't Ip Man record the "real" WC & send it off to Cheung as proof of Cheung's legitimacy?
Like all of Cheung's story, it doesnt make any sense.
2 Possibilities:
Ip Man was insane, OR Cheung's a liar.
Most likely Cheungs a liar.
Nephronial 1 year ago
This Biu Ji looks wrong to me, not about the sequence, but about thte adherence to the Wing Chun principles.
He simply broke all the body structure, and could not express the explosive force of Biu Ji. And he could not demonstrate the "Emergency Hand" principles either.
TanSauNg2008 3 years ago
blind guys always say 'something looks wrong to me' because they 'v never seen it before, lol. And u tell me buddy, all the WC principles that u know or memorize!
gameofdeath4288 2 years ago
@TanSauNg2008
That's because he was never trained in Biu Jee. He made this form up himself, and had no idea what he was doing. It's good enough to impress noobs and kids, though, and if noobs and kids are impressed enough, they'll pay for lessons and buy his crap books. By the time they find out he's a fraud, they're too invested to admit they've been bullshitted.
Pretty good racket.
Nephronial 1 year ago
There are many great masters of wingchun in the modified style but only one grand master in the real style and that's Willy, he didn't make all this up you know. Yipman passed on the real deal to him and only him.
deejay7tee 3 years ago
traditional???
all others are modidied??
are you sure?
why everybody is wrong and he right?
Ip chun is wrong? Duncan LEung is wrong?
wong shun leung is wrong?
the sons of yip man are wrong ?
I don´t think so...
mpeterson007 3 years ago
William trained privately with yipman and packed his opium cones. He is the sole inheriter and last 'grand master' of the real Yipman style wingchun. The 'T' stance in traditonal wingchun kicks ass over 'modified' wingchun. Bruce was smart enough to figure out that he had been taught an 'inferior' modified wingchun style (lacking sideways movemant) than willy and changed it accordingly to form JKD.
deejay7tee 3 years ago
5 stars!
gagi1963andjeo 3 years ago
there is no one kick in "biu gee"
do you want to see the best and original form?
Duncan Leung, Wong Shun Leung and Ip Chun(son of yip man).
this man above makes a several modification in the form.
mpeterson007 3 years ago
its the traditional form..all others systems are modified!
scott1puru 3 years ago 3
love this shit...especially the arm waving on completion of each section and how he doesn't even look .. like it's just for show or something.
absolute crap.
guidomartini 3 years ago
Well considering this guy*who you obviously dont know* would kill you with one flick of his wrist...then you really should shut the fk up.
ImaTWAZZOCK 3 years ago
would that be with his **secret** wing chun??
Well, considering you obviously don't know he's always been full of shit and was never trained by yip man to anything like the degree he claims you must think he's far better than he is.
Says alot for your skill...maybe leung ting's alternate bullshit would perhaps also suit you?
retard
SaiYukFong 3 years ago
@SaiYukFong
Amen.
It's funny how the 2 biggest names in WC are also the 2 biggest turds. On one hand you have William "The Chosen One" Cheung with all his BS, then you've got Ting who labels himself "The Master of Almightiness", and keeps spewing his own bs about being "The Last Closed Door Student" of Ip Man. Ting's deviant pervert, too.
Apparently douchebaggery & good business sense go together.
Nephronial 1 year ago
This 'arm waving' you criticise is Hoon Sao, actually VERY important for Chi Sao application.
TimRedfern 3 years ago 2
Man...this is great!
DrakeAran 3 years ago 2
Learning Wing Chun Kung Fu has helped me to understand how to gather energy and I have been able to use this energy or Chi to help the body to heal. The Difference is I actually understand how the healing takes place at the cell level thanks to my Father Dr C. Samuel West. and the Free Lessons now you can to.
Spueramn 3 years ago 3
it's funny when foreigners try to diss each other in Engrish.
tdbostick 3 years ago
Sorry we dont know "Engrish" as you do, you cannot even spell it well haha
soundoflight 3 years ago
Engrish - means English when spoken by someone with little knowledge of the language.
That was not a misspelling.
tdbostick 3 years ago
Look up 'Engrish' in Wikipedia if you don't believe me.
tdbostick 3 years ago
Ok cool it is like my Frenchglish lol
got it now ;)
soundoflight 3 years ago