New Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition DM's guide review

[Langsorigingaleia]

What you should touch upon in this review is the amount of redundancy between this book and the rest. The Wizards of the Coast is really BS with their marketing plan by shipping bloody essentials separately for insane prices. The starting kit I bought was like buying a demo. I should have gotten an extensive rulebook, a way to make custom characters and even quite a dungeon master's guide so that I can run my own adventures.

[Evological]

4E. 3.5, pathfinder, who cares. Play what you like!!! It's a god damned game people.

[saintjst7]

If you don't like 4th edition (not a big fan myself) take a look at Pathfinder. They added alot of cool features to the character classes to even them out, fixed alot of the game mechanics that 3.5 missed, and put in alot of cool details to make the rolplaying session that much better. I won't say 4th edition is bad, but it is moddled after MMO's to try and capture a younger audience. I can't say i blame Wizards for trying something new, but I'll stick with the older stuff.

[atari67]

I love 4th edition D&D, and I've been playing since Blue Book original D&D. Those idiots that say "it isn't D&D" are giving way too much power to the writers of the game.

[Kharn526]

Im going to be a smart ass here for a second.If we dont take your word for it then why bothering watching lol :P

[wastelandtv2]

That's funny, but agis261 was just quoting LeVar Burton from the educational PBS program Reading Rainbow.

[wowfever]

Where can i buy this in the UK?

[wastelandtv2]

maybe Ebay and have it shipped in....not sure about the UK....sorry

[Solydude]

There are like HUNDREDS of stores in the UK, google D&D and you're location, you should find it. OR you could always eBay it

[orendo]

You forgot to mention skill challenges, although you flipped through those pages :)

[alexthegood78]

i see problems of characters movingover so why not play BOTH editions (not at same time and i dont play yet so sorry if im missing something)

[PPPlayerOne]

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[KhagarBalugrak]

2nd edition is really the best. It offers endless possibilities within a simple and balanced framework, and, most importantly, allows people to ROLE PLAY. Maybe straight-up roleplaying without any rules at all is the best way to go.

[KhagarBalugrak]

4th edition is a colossal failure. It has been dumbed-down to such a degree that it is totally unrecognizable. Characters are now defined only by their combat abilities, not by their character and unique ways of responding to and dealing with situations. D&D is now just another tactical MMORP with no flavor or anything of interest whatsoever.

[WayfinderX]

To enforce your point, case here: I have a 26th Level High Elf Archmage/Wizard. He's completely incompatible with 4E. Not only is he far too powerful, he's far too POWERFUL! I could not bring Myrow the Magnificent into 4E in an accurate representation of his prowess. No Wish, among other things. Myrow could level armies and castles compared to a 30th Level wizard, who could barely kill a small group of hobgoblins in one blast of Meteor Swarm (4E). Do the math. Wow.

[WayfinderX]

If you actually read this DMG, it basically wants you to molly-coddle the PCs. Any person with testicles would be sick reading this book. It literally states not to put 1st Level PCs near a 80' cliff. It states not to have monsters keep hitting downed PCs to death. It's got platitudes of strict game balance; but, as any grown adult should know, life is not balanced, so not all encounters should be either. Pg 28,under Tips from the Pros, should make you wretch as a DM.

[StikeyMike]

I've not read all of the DMG, but I did check out Page 28, and unfortunately, you are right. Tips from the Pros??? hardly

[shagoosty]

The game became about balance, but people like me are dicks and decide to give them real challenges anyways. One of players 11th level rogue just fell down a 200 ft pit (which is under "fatal" on the chart for level 26th-30th) and by pure luck she survived. Play the game how you want, and the fact is that the encounters they recommend are too easy for power gamers and you'll end up making encounters 5 level higher than the group just to give them a challenge,

[WayfinderX]

What I object to is the approach this book has for newcomers to the hobby. It's almost as though they are actively urging you to avoid putting direct lethality into the game. WotC recently published an article in Dragon Magazine about Traps (Trapped!) where it actually states not to put instantly lethal traps in a dungeon. Of course I'm going to ignore that tripe; but when I encounter a player who's been coddled up to playing with my group, I just wonder if I'm going to break his heart.

[shagoosty]

I agree that they made a little harder to kill off characters (the best way is multiple encounters) but I also agree that you shouldn't create traps that instantly kill, there should be a chance for survival, it should be damaged base. If you want it to be extra Dangerous make it deal 20D10 Damage, potentially lethal but not automatic.

[WayfinderX]

If you do that, there is a good chance that a trap that is supposed to be extra Dangerous becomes particularly survivable. 20d10 could just as well be 20 points of damage. The point of having an instantly lethal trap is so that the PCs do not get the notion that the DM is actively looking out for their welfare, that not everything is survivable. It helps for them to suspend disbelief. When you believe that the DM is not going to lead you into something that you may not be able to handle...

[WayfinderX]

... then the world he's creating begins to unravel. Some things should be fled from as fast as you can run. Some things should be avoided. But if you don't believe the DM would ever put something up against you that you can't handle, then you may be more inclined to fight rather than avoid or even flee. Is that realistic?

[WayfinderX]

Mind you, in every adventure that I write (I'm helping to write an RPG coming out soon) I always put in at least one trap or situation that could cause one or two instant deaths. I don't make every trap or situation instantly lethal. One or two is enough for one adventure. And I'm not afraid to set loose monsters that the PCs cannot contend with through combat. I do this so that the players can think about the situation in a way that would be consistent with actual role-playing. Survival.

[WayfinderX]

And bear in mind this: It's one thing to tell the guy who's going to be the DM to use tricks, to fudge die rolls on behalf of the players once in a while, but it's a whole different matter when molly-coddling the players is a matter of the game's construction. 4E is just that way. It's not a GAME, where there is a real chance of failure and losing. It;s now a movie, a novel, a comic book, something that is made for the protagonist specifically. That is, if, IF, you play 4E as they want.

[WayfinderX]

I do not want to hamstring my Gamemasters. As a writer myself, and a hardcore gamer, I do not want to limit my GM to anything he doesn't want to do. Part of the fun is seeing if his challenges can, or cannot, be overcome by the players. 4E deprives him of this in fundamental ways. In my new space opera RPG (an awesome one, mind you), the PCs must think with all their wits if they want to not only succeed, but survive! Fight, when talking isn't going to get anywhere. rather than humdrum...

[WayfinderX]

4E is a great wargame. I like wargames. I'm an avid Warhammer 40K player and I do not detract the system in this regard. And you know, I don't mind if people play this game. It's just not Dungeons and Dragons. In time, people will realize that this is something of a sham compared with previous editions.

It's already becoming obvious, though not for all. Among my own group who clamor to have me GM everything, they'd rather play World of Cynnabarr than 4E. That's pretty bad.

[wastelandtv2]

You know, we discoveried the same problem with 3rd trying to port 2nd edition characters over. They were way too powerful or way too weak and a shadow of their greatness in their own game systems they started in.

[WayfinderX]

But as Kurt Wiegal said in his review about 3rd Edition, at least you could still recognize it as D&D. I had my objections to 3E, but very few of them weren't correctable at the DM's level. For instance, I didn't like the changes made to Paladins; not how they allowed all races to be Pallys, but how they basically made them inferior warriors to other types. To my way of thinking a Paladin was a warrior first who was blessed and charged by a good deity to fight evil. 3E changed that a bit.

[darthspeaks]

I heard they changed the 14+ age qualifications to ages 2+.

[critias7]

Lol

[hexusziggurat]

this combat-only, and non-cambat stuff is really garbage. It doesn't give freedoms...it forces you to restrict your capacity to be creative and apply YOUR spells when YOU see fit!

[hexusziggurat]

The best information that is in this book has all been adapted from 1st edition. DMG 1st ed is still the best DM's companion in the game.

[swordmonkey05]

i got the book my first of the three 4th ed core books and its very good it even has a adventrue near the back for begginer DM's and players

[Akashe91]

Also, great review. Descriptive.

[rezpatriot]

I quote "sometimes you try to fix it, it just isn't enough". That is what I would sympathise with doo

[kellystone84]

Lets take a little vote 3.5 or 4.0?. I tried 4.0 for a couple of weeks but i have to admit that 3.5 is a superior system.

[merdufer]

4.0 will make a great video game. that's about it.

[shadowlesswalls]

removing spell books from a wizard/mage? bad move 4th edition... they would have sold more books if they put out a basic introduction of 3.5.. like people playing. and the actions that take place.. thus they would get new players and expand.. old DM's and players mix with online maps.. and voice ablity was the way to go to expand D&D but instead they dumbed it down..dont get it.. need help learning 3.5? ill do my best...

[fenrir7139]

What do you mean, "Removing Spellbooks"? Quoted from the Player's Handbook:

"You possess a spellbook, a book full of mystic lore in which you store your rituals and your daily and utility spells."

Sounds like a "Spellbook" to me...

[shadowlesswalls]

in 3.5 u get a mass amount of spell selection..though most are junkie it leaves things open for creativity.. from what i heard no such section exist anymore in 4.0.. the spells are picked for u.. and u gain more as u progress.. it's like a video game... the advantage of table top is u can go beyond the video game borders.. i haven't seen the book myself.. just going by info giving to me from someone that bought and was disappointed.so how many spells in the book total? 2 or 3 spells per level?

[Akashe91]

There are 2-3 of each at-will powers, encounter powers, and daily powers, which function as spells, though technically they aren't. You swap them out for a choice from higher level abilities as you progress.

I personally like 4th edition BECAUSE they streamlined the abilities. It seems to me that it helps move away from a character sheet focus and more towards a Character focus.

As for creativity, if you'd like more spells, design your own that fit your character's personality.

[merdufer]

wizard encounter powers are great if they like to be damage outlets. just whatever happens to the concept of the meek scholar with a few good tricks up his sleeves for the right occasions. all we have now are young wizards wearing mohawk and tattoos throwing elements around. i thought they had a class called sorcerer for those guys.

[Casanuda]

Good review of the book, fairly to the point. I don't agree one inch about the books but not a bad review.

What was with the random camera panning though?

[crypticlife]

I agree that a lot of it is probably for new DM's, but it doesn't hurt to have the advice codified, and you never know what you might pick up. However, I agree most of the rules are actually in the Player's HB at this point.

If, by "old editions" you mean 1E (b/c that's what I would mean), I can see issues with it. Never really played 3 or 3.5, so I can't comment there.

[wastelandtv2]

I was more into Basic and 2nd edition, the best the book has is "advice from the pros" I guess that all WOTC thought vets needed....but have played as of late 3 and 3.5 and unless you have a story based GM, the game is really easy to break the system for feats make stuff really easier now....

[elveskickass]

I agree with the last two comments...4th edition is for NEW players not veterans. Stick with the old editions.

[ALANIARISS]

Yeah man youre right. all the scenario of 4th edition in my opinion sucks... you dont need new books spells or feats and skills to play d&d.You just need to have a good imagination and a good party, thats all...

[gopos23456]

@ALANIARISS but then it is not D&D, its just roleplaying

[firewolf322]

yea i agree stick with 3.5 i enjoy the damage reduction and multiple attacks per charater.

[FusionNinjin]

i have no idea why they want to make dnd like wow, in the first edition it was all about surviveing and getting long and deep into the game, now its just tank healer damage dealer so on, and near impossible to play bad

[tarboy62]

the DMs guide is a wast of money unless your are 12 years old and hace never played if you have been playing or gming for 6 months you should know this stuff...the rest of the game suck ass too

[bwrpwr]

The dm guide has next to NO game info.If you have been DMing you dont need 5 damn chapters of how to do so.You need game rules for DMing which this book is damn low on.So HUGE thumbs down on the new DM guide.

[wastelandtv2]

yeah it easy as vet DM to say you don't need five chapter of DMing these are chapters you skip over, but when Dragon magazine was under TSR, you had monthly issue sent to you about DMing for newbies and Vets on improving play. Which is far more bigger pile then 5 chapters in one book.....

[Kaim82]

i do agree with how the book feels and looks impressive, i bought the players handbook and i read it, i like the new 4th edition than the previous ones :)

[jief569]

tapping instead of playing it....thank you mr stereotype

[KABUKISERGE]

hey thanks for posting

[wastedmodesto]

worth look at, but need to check out other books