There is a humorous tv show in Britain called Trick or Treat hosted by a man named Derren Brown. He does a rendition of BF Skinners pigeon experiment only instead of pigeons he uses people. If you're interested, it can be found on youtube- Derren Brown Trick or Treat Series 2 Episode 6 - Part 1
.. so to finish and answer your question, if religion is a superstitious behaviour ( which I believe it is ) and animals exhibit supertitious behaviour then yes, they got religion! Sorry about the second post,this may be a video site but for YouTube to provide woefully little space for comments is just crap..!
Well, in order for you to conclude that animals have religion, you would have to show that not only is religion superstitious, but also that all superstition is religious (both seem like very debatable propositions, but no matter what we decided on those two questions, you would have to equate religion and superstition, not only show that religion is superstitious).
Cause + effect makes sense as survival mechanism.When young we use this to test our surroundings,building sets of 'superstitious behaviours'. When older, we aquire reason + these are filtered.Animals can't reason as we do,forcing them to 'invent' causes + balance the equation.IMHO, any SB's in adult humans is a result of this filtering mechanism going awry,so that given a single instance of a cause and a pleasurable effect,the compulsion to stab that button a million times is the result.. ;o)
I'm going to have to read Dennett's books and Harris' as well, but I've been kind of lazy. I was surprised how much of the things everyone talks about was anticipated to some degree by Darwin and Thomas Huxley. There sure are some especially great books out now.
If you Google "superstition in the pigeon" you will be able to find the original paper on the subject. Also, if you do an advanced Google search for "science and human behavior" with the format set to "pdf" you can a full text version of the book which has a full chapter on religion.
Nice vid; people = pigeons stuffed into a box and randomly fed food, left up to our own devices to believe whatever the fuck we feel like making up. Haha, life is funny that way sometimes.
Randomly given good weather, health, disease, domesticable plants and animals and everything. And then our inherent desire to find correlations where perhaps they don't exist.
I forgot to mention in it that false positives are generally less harmful than false negatives, which would explain why we can survive errors in assessing probabilities. Thanks for watching!
This is an awesome examination of superstition in humans and animals. I also thought the insertion of Skinner and Dawkins with examples was very helpful in explaining the concept more clearly.
The problem I have with Darwin is the famous monkey to man illustration. It looks reasonable until you realize that there are trillions of differences between each. It seems to me that there would be many variants instead of a steady progression towards man.
I'll think about how I can do it well, but it may be that I'll come across another video that has already done it better than I ever will. I won't forget your request, but it might take some time to do a proper response. Any help anyone wants to give would be appreciated.
There are not trillions of differences in each, even if you are counting it in terms of cells. I suggest you check your source. We didn't come from monkeys, by the way. We shared a common ancestor with them, but we also share a common ancestor with alligators.
There is a humorous tv show in Britain called Trick or Treat hosted by a man named Derren Brown. He does a rendition of BF Skinners pigeon experiment only instead of pigeons he uses people. If you're interested, it can be found on youtube- Derren Brown Trick or Treat Series 2 Episode 6 - Part 1
jlburnitt 3 years ago
Thank you for all these comments! I'm going to have to read them several times (not at work) for it all to sink in!
DarwinsHamster 5 years ago
This guy has managed to turn an interesting concept into something that makes us want to stick our heads into an oven,............BORING!!
felixq78 4 years ago
.. so to finish and answer your question, if religion is a superstitious behaviour ( which I believe it is ) and animals exhibit supertitious behaviour then yes, they got religion! Sorry about the second post,this may be a video site but for YouTube to provide woefully little space for comments is just crap..!
saiello2061 5 years ago
Well, in order for you to conclude that animals have religion, you would have to show that not only is religion superstitious, but also that all superstition is religious (both seem like very debatable propositions, but no matter what we decided on those two questions, you would have to equate religion and superstition, not only show that religion is superstitious).
wilthiswork 2 years ago
Cause + effect makes sense as survival mechanism.When young we use this to test our surroundings,building sets of 'superstitious behaviours'. When older, we aquire reason + these are filtered.Animals can't reason as we do,forcing them to 'invent' causes + balance the equation.IMHO, any SB's in adult humans is a result of this filtering mechanism going awry,so that given a single instance of a cause and a pleasurable effect,the compulsion to stab that button a million times is the result.. ;o)
saiello2061 5 years ago
Read about this same experiment in Dennett's Breaking the Spell. Fascinating.
PantySnatcher 5 years ago
I'm going to have to read Dennett's books and Harris' as well, but I've been kind of lazy. I was surprised how much of the things everyone talks about was anticipated to some degree by Darwin and Thomas Huxley. There sure are some especially great books out now.
DarwinsHamster 5 years ago
sorry, kind of boring, reading the text would take 1/10th the time
happy12806 5 years ago
You put the link in your email lol! That's why it made quite sense to me lol!
kris2pe 5 years ago
Sorry I accidentally deleted your last comment here. I was going to hit the reply link but hit remove instead.
DarwinsHamster 5 years ago
If you Google "superstition in the pigeon" you will be able to find the original paper on the subject. Also, if you do an advanced Google search for "science and human behavior" with the format set to "pdf" you can a full text version of the book which has a full chapter on religion.
paulend1 5 years ago
Nice vid; people = pigeons stuffed into a box and randomly fed food, left up to our own devices to believe whatever the fuck we feel like making up. Haha, life is funny that way sometimes.
abortedsoul 5 years ago
Randomly given good weather, health, disease, domesticable plants and animals and everything. And then our inherent desire to find correlations where perhaps they don't exist.
DarwinsHamster 5 years ago
I forgot to mention in it that false positives are generally less harmful than false negatives, which would explain why we can survive errors in assessing probabilities. Thanks for watching!
DarwinsHamster 5 years ago
I also didn't realize that you have viewed this hours before I posted a comment on your site referring to this.
DarwinsHamster 5 years ago
I have come to the conclusion that either I am reciting the wrong prayers or my Skinner box has been disconnected. :o/
CarlisleCockney 5 years ago
Just remember, it's always your fault.
DarwinsHamster 5 years ago
That makes me feel worse. :o(
CarlisleCockney 5 years ago
This is an awesome examination of superstition in humans and animals. I also thought the insertion of Skinner and Dawkins with examples was very helpful in explaining the concept more clearly.
HC4D 5 years ago
The problem I have with Darwin is the famous monkey to man illustration. It looks reasonable until you realize that there are trillions of differences between each. It seems to me that there would be many variants instead of a steady progression towards man.
vestalallen 5 years ago
There were, but we were the ones that survived.
DarwinsHamster 5 years ago
Make a video about it if you don't mind.
vestalallen 5 years ago
I'll think about how I can do it well, but it may be that I'll come across another video that has already done it better than I ever will. I won't forget your request, but it might take some time to do a proper response. Any help anyone wants to give would be appreciated.
DarwinsHamster 5 years ago
Thanks, I am on a fixed income and building a library is not possible.
vestalallen 5 years ago
There are not trillions of differences in each, even if you are counting it in terms of cells. I suggest you check your source. We didn't come from monkeys, by the way. We shared a common ancestor with them, but we also share a common ancestor with alligators.
abortedsoul 5 years ago
Even though I think Dawkins' The God Delusion [sic] is offal, I appreciate your reading of this particular work. Thanks.
obrienr 5 years ago