new invention Gravity / Buoyancy engine

[QuantumChance]

How can different volumes of oil sit on the same level on the water?

Oil was density, and therefore weight. The more weight of the oil on the right will push the water down, this in turn will push the oil in the left up, because there is less of it that oil on the left.

Not free energy, just a waste of time, like this post.

[nadeem5476]

the oil should go UP from a thin tubes loaded with propellers which will generate electricity .

[wyrrox]

Scratch :D 

[Isefiron]

intresting worth looking into but requires som heavy mods

[Sephu]

The only potential problem I see here is that water would leak in on the underside of the red piston as oil pushes out. Perhaps a one way valve could solve this, but then I'm unsure if there would be enough pressure to simple gravity feed the drop source piston.

[kamalmichael]

@Sephu not perfect and i wont pretend it will work but the principle is sound. There are better designs (including my own video response). I have worked on several design ... the best one running for over 40 mins.... but you may understand i dont want to disclose information just yet. thanks for your interest

[OtagoMark]

@kamalmichael The principle is not sound..the oil side on theleft would be very bouyant, the force required to push it down would be great and then rather than oil leaking over to the right water would simply go left and find a level

[kamalmichael]

@OtagoMark this is no way a perfect design..i was just toying around with the idea. if u look at the video reponse

you ll see a much better design... here the oil has actually managed to come full cycle... only let down by the fact

i was not able to work out how to reindroduce it to the water. I have made a lot more progress from all this and for the time keeping it under wraps for the possibilty of a patent ...if it works fully

[kamalmichael]

@OtagoMark the principle is sound in only that oil will fall in air and rise in water. It will require some clever enginerring to utlise this though.

[OtagoMark]

@kamalmichael Not.. you cannot make the oil go ful circle as you've claimed... not unless you power it from outside which defeats the purpose, what you're trying to do is no different to using magnets to lift a ball bearing up so that it rolls down a slop only to be lifted up again lol... Congratulations though on not using Magnets!!

The problem is the level of water on the right is higher than where the oil comes through on the left , and as water is heavier it will stop the oil comingthr

[kamalmichael]

@OtagoMark as i said b4.. its far from perfect but we gotta start with some design and its not gonna be perfect first time

[OtagoMark]

@kamalmichael You see what you've succeeded in doing is confuse yourself. The lighter oil will not magically forget its lighter and flow down into the heavier water only to change its mind and float up again. another problem is the liquid level on the right is much higher than the left... as soon as the falve opens liquid will flow the wrong way!! and it will ALWAYS do that so long as you expect oil to drop down through air lol

[kamalmichael]

@OtagoMark agreed its far from perfect but gotta start somewhere.

[pardonwhat]

When the valve is opened fluid pressure will reverse the flow until the two columns become balanced resulting in a stalled flow. The energy from atmospheric pressure is derived from gravity which is constant on both columns.

If it makes any difference, I like your thinking.

[jaymcd84]

dont get me wrong, im trying to make something similar to this also. you must use the speed of accelration that gravity has and the bouyancy of another object. ball drops through the air, hitting wheels and levers on the way down. energy is produced by the potential energy when the ball is dropped. to get the ball back up again, it must fall into a liquid like water, and then be propelled back up by the buoyancy of the ball.

[jaymcd84]

the loss of energy is from the spring, the spring would puch down on the system when it is holding more mass, the energy is than transported back down through the table, through whatever the table is on, and then back into the earth. Same thing as when you puch down on a table, the energy is distributed back to the earth, the table does not remain 20 lbs heavier once you remove your hand.

[adanieltorres]

You may be interested in youtube.com/watch?v=MIdt63Vl4X­s

[kamalmichael]

@adanieltorres yes. i watched all u r vids. interesting. I ve seen the contious pulley device for real used to shift gears in a car. I like the bimetallic strip idea 4 for ventilation . good work. I thought of capillary tubes to draw water up but this is checked by atmospheric pressure at the top which wont allow the water to overflow. could try a powerful magnet at the top to repel the water off maybe

[adanieltorres]

@kamalmichael Thanks! I'm glad you liked the ideas.

Atmospheric pressure can be reduced by removing air from the container holding the water, but I don't see why you would want the water to go over the top. It only needs to keep the tube filled so the beads from the necklace can float to the top, from where they are pulled overboard.

[kamalmichael]

@adanieltorres i was looking at u r other vid with a tube coming out of the first tube.

But ,yes the bead vid is an innovation . there ia vid on u tube where someone used floats (beads) and a bike chain (fthread), but theirs was a closed system (like upside down test tube- the floats fall in air and rise up the tube -but that all it did) so the open capillary tube is a better idea. ive

tampered around with capillary tubes and absorbant material-water is absorbed at the top and drips

[adanieltorres]

@kamalmichael Regarding the vent idea, I originally started with a bimetallic strip, but ended up with a single metal version in a tight coil that still allows for slipping.

As for the continuously variable transmission, I know of several vehicles using CVTs, from mopeds to Jeeps. The focus of the idea I posted is to have a low-tech version.

[adanieltorres]

My guess is that a steady state would be reached (i.e., as oil builds up on the right, pushing down on the water, the water pressure pushes up on the spring mechanism, preventing it from opening).

[overunitybill2009]

There is a simple reason this cannot work . Because the density of the oil is less than that of the water, the colum of oil will be higher than that of the water. The vid represents the opposite of the reality. sorry burst your bubble

[kamalmichael]

at no time is the oil not above the water. Take it from there.

[basilenglish]

i found this on here search "Energy from Water (Floatation)" Already being worked on. it actually can be done?

[kamalmichael]

agreed. Thx 4 neat video with chain dropping a float into water which rises up a tube of water- If they only found a way to reattach the float to the chain - the cycle would go on forever.The problem with this is that the water tube has to be enclosed to keep the water level high so the float cannot come out from the top. But this video has got thinking .

[basilenglish]

yes but if you can use height and gravity fall at some stage it will produce more power, the only problem is the higher the tower the higher the psi, maybe an answer lies in a submarine torpedo launcher

[amandarandom89]

You misunderstand buoyancy.

In order to get something to float up, you first have to expend energy pushing it under water. It doesn't matter if you push it down from the top of a water column or through some kind of magical valve on the side, the energy gained by it floating up is equal to that expended by getting it

into the water.

[kamalmichael]

the weight of the oil on the left chamber pushes into the water. As the oil is released, the weight is reduced and the spring pushes the chamber up ready to be filled up again by the overflow at the top

[basilenglish]

make a miniture working model

[kamalmichael]

needs 2 be big due to weght of oil required by the left chamber to push into the water -

[basilenglish]

google "Gravity and buoyancy driven power generators" read the patent

[kamalmichael]

seen it thanks but it reqiures heat exhange and means additional energy input. The whole idea is that it should run on its own

[jollivier]

It's probably good practice to put one's ideas to the test before claiming to have disproved the laws of physics. This looks like a simple enough device - why don't you build one? Otherwise, you're just blowing hot air.

[kamalmichael]

have you looked at the video response above ?

This experiment refined the idea and met the goal of returning the oil from where it started out. I recently improved the idea and had it working for about 10 mins but wish not to disclose how this was achieved.

There is not disproving the laws of physics but using whats out there already.

[adam3141]

I don't think your oil experiment refined your idea. Instead, it actually disproves your idea because I can see what you want it do but physics won't allow it to happen.

You said that the oil will travel down the tube and then float back up and on its way, through a turbine generating electricity.

You forgot to mention one important point. The fact that water will also be inside that tube and it is impossible for the oil to sink through the water inside the tube.

[kamalmichael]

ref to vid response:At the top of the bottle is oil only and no water so water cannot enter the tube becuse the tube is above the water level. At the slit end the tube is SLIGHTLY above the water level again. The problem had been to reintroduce the oil back into the water at slit end without pumping it

[adam3141]

[cont]

Tidal forces can be utilised to generate power but I just don't think you know how to do that given that you seem to think this device will somehow work.

For example on how to utilise tidal energy consider a boat at low tide. It will be at its lowest point. Now imagine a highly geared generator anchored to the bottom of the sea floor. Fix one end of a cable to the bottom of the boat and the other to the generator. As the tide rises the boat will too and so

[kamalmichael]

One factor that causes tides to rise is the gravitional pull of the moon and sun. So gravity can be used to do work. If u look at another vid i done, i have stated the water from high tide can be stored and drained at low tide to generate electricity.The storage tank can be cut miles long and tons and tons of water stored to produce huge amounts of electricity- all thanks to gravity. Please see my vid High Tide generator

[adam3141]

Gravity can definitely be used to produce electricity and so we need a way to exploit it so we can run it for as long as the moon orbits the earth and the earth orbits the sun.

The interaction of the earth's and moon's gravitational field when the moon is at different points in the sky, in effect squeezes the oceans and because of this we can exploit gravity to do the work down hill and now up hill so to speak.

[kamalmichael]

Yes totally agree. But i dont see many people using gravity as a fuel supply. Lisa Randle says gravity is a lot weaker than it should be. We shouldn't be able to pick up an apple with The whole of earth is acting on it. Can someone be already using up gravity . This whole project was inspired by Lisa Randle.

[jollivier]

If you can use gravity to perform work, then why can't a spring be used to propel a car forever, without requiring an external energy source to re-load the spring? That's not the same thing, you say? Consider gravity as being invisible springs connecting the center of the earth to every atom on earth, where tension is proporional to the mass of the atom, and un-changing for objects within the atmosphere. Now, reconsider my question: why can't a spring be used to propel a car forever?

[kamalmichael]

@jollivier 2 points- 1)gravity can do work -just look at sea high tide where a boat can be raised up as the water level rises due to gravity pull by the sun and moon. 2)We are not using just gravity but also bouyancy. The bouyancy bit "reloads the spring " so to speak

[jollivier]

1) Gravity isn't doing the WORK to produce the tides, the kinetic energy of the earth and the moon are. Because of tidal forces, the earth's rotation is decelerating, and the moon's orbit is accelerating. 2) Buoyancy is a DIRECT result of gravity, not some not-yet-understood magical force! Going back to my spring analogy of gravity: heavier objects are connected to the center of the earth on heavier springs.

[kamalmichael]

If there was no such thing as gravity , the moon would not be able to go round the earth to produce all that kinetic energy in the first place. Some people have described the universe as a perpetual motion machine. There might also be a sinister motive to "educate" you to believe

gravity is of no use when the motion of whole universe relys on it.

[jollivier]

Gosh... if you don't start showing some ability to use logic and reasoning, I won't argue with you anymore!

[kamalmichael]

Here is the logic and reasoning u seek is this. Not so long ago everybody was told the earth was flat and Flight was impossible. You would the first to believe

and i would be the first to question it. Go figure.

[adam3141]

[cont]

the generator will turn very fast because of the gearing (note that this is pretty inefficient because of friction) when the tide lowers again your cable will become slack but this is easily overcome by means of a simple motor/clutch arrangement. Also note that the power to drive the motor to get rid of the slack need only be 100W while the power the generator can make can be 100's of kilowatts.

[adam3141]

[cont]

This generator will provide power on the low-high tide. The slack will be taken up on the high-low tide and then the cycle repeats.

Simple and I think it will work. I plan on testing it soon - I can just use a bathtub, balloon and a motor.

There is a limit on how much power you can generate though and will be limited by how much buoyancy the "boat" has otherwise you will sink your boat.

[kamalmichael]

This is not a bad idea and i like people who test test thing.

[Flumphinator]

The problem is that water would flow back into the oil chamber, even with the clever little spring oscillator you've got going there. Regardless of density, when that passage opens, the flow is going to be the other way.

Awesome idea though. Work on things that are based on sound science, and you will go far.

[kamalmichael]

yes far from perfect. But i put out ideas so people and myself can improve upon it . The ideas falling oil and rising oil are sound. We just need to make a clever machine to utlise this without extra inputs of energy. Recently I have taken an exciting step forward with developments but have to think very hard whether to disclose or not

[dyethor]

Ok the oil has a smaller specific gravity then water. knowing this oil will always go to the top of water in liquid form. Based on the drawing the water will just flood the chamber that moves down making the oil in that chamber rise . Oil will take the path of least resistance which is straight up, not sideways.

[kamalmichael]

u r probably right. This not the final degin by any means- take a look at the video response video (by me). This is much closer 2 the goal in that the oil ends up where it started from. I think i even sorted out how to reintroduce the oil back into the slit but need 2 do a few more experiments

[flowerbower]

Sir George Cayley demonstrated man-size glider-flight in the 18th century. No scientist suggested that flight was contrary to the laws of physics, OTOH, your invention IS.

If you think that gravity is too weak, you must have made some calculations to prove it. Both the Earth's diameter and the gravitational constant are measured quantities, so how do you come up with a ludicrous result except by mistake? Show your working, so that we can all have a laugh at your errors.

OTOH, if you mean ...

[kamalmichael]

youll be telling me lisa randle is wrong- she just happened to been awarded the noble prize 4 her discovery i believe . Of course u may know more than these people at the fore front of science

[flowerbower]

Nobody is awarded a Nobel prize for a mere theory with no experimental support. And if neither of you can give a sensible reason for suggesting that the gravitational force is 'too small' , why bother to mention it at all?

Moreover, all of this irrelevant: your idea will not work no matter what magnitude the gravitational force has.

[kamalmichael]

i believe she was awarded noble prize. Whats more you are wrong saying gravity cannot be really used to do work . Im going to prove u wrong - gravity from the sun and moon can cause high tide which in turn can raise up a heavy boat. You need energy to lift a heavy boat- provided by the influence of gravity- so gravity can be seen as an input of energy despite what the text book might say.

[flowerbower]

Well, you are the one claiming it: why not find out whether she got a prize, before claiming that she did.

And stop moving the goalposts: extraction of energy from a gravitational field is impossible because the field is conservative. That has nothing to do with tides, which can be seen as being due to the kinetic interaction of 2 independent gravitational fields. If you really cannot see the difference, I feel sorry for you.

The above device will NOT WORK.

[flowerbower]

I have been looking into your Lisa Randall. It seems to me that she is very much a 'media-invention': journalists love her because they can understand her analogies and because she also looks like an aging stripper. They credit her with introducing a fifth dimension into physics. No, Kaluza did that almost 100 years ago. And as I said, nobody gets a Nobel prize for such suggestions: they are 'two-a-penny' in the physics literature.

PS You also completely misderstand her gravity claim.

[kamalmichael]

u will be trying to convince me the world is flat. The earth is big, huge- why are not pulled and flatterned 2 the ground- please do give me an explaination -

[flowerbower]

Simple: it is because the gravitational constant is so small. It is about 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000­,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,0­00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000­,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,0­00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000­,000,000 times smaller than the equivalent constants for electrostatic or magnetic forces.

[kamalmichael]

u missed out a 0

[sam6kamel]

cant work. one reson the preasure in the let side will stop the right side

[kamalmichael]

no doubt. We r not exactly working on the idea above but the principle. If u look at the video response above, it is very close (ie returning the oil where it started from). I can also reveal today 11/08/09 that i have a new simple design in mind that has all the right stuff 2 force it 2 work. But as usual i need to try it out . Even if it fails,

i might put it up so others can work on it. thanks 4 ur comment

[rootbrianfan]

I know how to make this work. same principal but completely different design that capitalizes on the generation of electricity to overcome the equilibrium problem. doesn't create energy, it converts energy. if interested in helping me, email me at modohome at gmail. this is for real.

[kamalmichael]

fire away- only rule is there should be no obvious energy input such as a pump

[soyjackas]

hola?

[flowerbower]

Haha, this is one of the oldest known schemes for a perpetual motion machine. There are at least 1500 modern designs for 'buoyancy engines' on file at patent offices around the world, and many other ancient ones.

They usually involve hollow balls rather than immiscible droplets, but the flaw is always the same: the 'insertion' of the 'fallen object' into the 'float column' always requires energy, and this at least equals the energy supposedly generated.

[kamalmichael]

wrong

[flowerbower]

Yes indeed, you are. Don't you ever take the trouble to build 'proof-of-principle' models of your 'inventions'? If you did that, rather than relying on your totally inadequate knowledge of physics, you would stop wasting bandwidth like this. But of course you don't make models: if you had a working model, you would show that, rather that fanciful diagrams.

[kamalmichael]

i like u cos u r smart with ur response.("yes indeed you are".)..But the fact remains that oil DOES drop in air and RISE in water, and i hope ur are not suggesting we cant use this in some manner. By the way Have u ever heard of Lisa Randle ? She may be on to something- could our gravity be alrady in use since its a lot lot lot less than it should be ?

[flowerbower]

As I pointed out before, so does anything with a specific gravity of less than unity. One guy has patented the idea of drilling 2adjacent mineshafts. One is then filled with water. Heavy hollow spheres are then to be lowered on a cable down the empty shaft and thus used to drive a generator. He then imagines that they can be moved via an airlock to the water-filled shaft where they will float back to the surface. Unfortunately, there is no way of making such a transfer without using energy ...

[flowerbower]

[cont.] and that energy will be at least equal to the amount that he thinks that he can extract.

I have heard of a Lisa RandALL, who has views on gravity. But what do you mean by 'already in use'? That is like someone saying, "I won't ski today, I don't want to hog the gravity". Fields just don't work like that.

[kamalmichael]

According 2 Lisa and me the size of the earth should gave a much much greater pull ie so much we should not be able to pick up an apple from the ground- so where is it all disappeared to ? When people were trying to make flying machines there were a lot of people around ,including people with science background, said it couldnt be done similar 2 the way u are saying this cannot be done.

[flowerbower]

Oh really? Show your working!

Those (in)famous comments about flight being impossible are always taken out of context. Do you really think that intelligent people looked at birds and insects flying, or played with toy gliders (and even toy helicopters) and declared that flight was impossible? What was in doubt was the possibility of making an engine with a suitably high power/weight ratio. Please learn the difference between improbable and impossible. Yours is the latter BTW.

[kamalmichael]

At one point the wright brothers must have been working on their areoplane before the first flight- you wouldnt go up to them and say "Show your working!" Like the insects flying which shows it can be done, infront of you is oil that can rise and fall. I or u may not be the one who is gonna exploit this fact but someone is going 2 come up with a smart design like the wright bros did for flight.

[flowerbower]

[cont] that you have a theory of gravity which predicts a much larger value for the gravitational constant, then it is obviously wrong because it does not agree with the experimentally measured value, and should be scrapped.

[eonfluxs7]

Are you sure that the oil in the left can flow to the right? Because, I think the water will enter to the left tank and push the oil upward.

[kamalmichael]

1)the weight of the oil may stop this

2) the water will always be at a lower level than the oil.

However i would be foolish not to agree with you.This has never been a final design. Other design are being tried- see the real experiment in the video response above.

[Apoptosis74]

The energy required to move the spring on the left will equal (at least) the energy stored in lifting the oil column on the right. All this invention can add up to is transferring the energy required to push the oil from left to right, into potential energy stored in the right oil column. I was told about a gas version of this invention 10 years ago, and it was also incorrect.

[kamalmichael]

hopefully u look at the real experiment above on the video responses.

[scubdido]

actually the water would go to the left not the oil to to the right. As the pressure is great on the right hand side..eventually the pressure would equalize and your lovely design will grind to a halt...

[kamalmichael]

think about the heavy oil on top. Weight of oil will force oil to the right. However this is just the start. I understand your idea of equilibrium ect but a good design will fool the system. I Have built a new system for real and is very close to working. I will send you the video

[cyborgtroy]

No amount of trickery can fool physics.

As long as the surface of one column is higher [so that it can overflow], that means there's a higher pressure there. Liquids do not flow towards higher pressure. You'll just end up with a bunch of water in the bottom of the left cylinder.

[kamalmichael]

look at the video response above

[nlnatali]

okay?

[kamalmichael]

?????

[szikrit]

It wont work! In your machine, the oil is not IN the water, but is ON the water, and has a certain pressure on wather, from its waight. So no oildrop vill lift the whole oilmass way over the surfice of water! sorry.

[kamalmichael]

Imagine a u tube(no pun intended).now fill the bottom with a little water and then fill both column with oil. Thats what the machine above is- it will "lift"oil. However this is no means the final design. A much better design is the video reponse i have posted.

[6972082600]

the drop of the oil will not go to the right because the pressuse of the oil+water is greater to the right compared to the left. Just simple hydrostatic issues. Please Before uploading a video about inventions, think more time because some people may try to build these simple inventions...when they have not serious knowledge of physics and waste their time.

[kamalmichael]

did you see the video response ? Maybe its me trying to build it. Trust me all this idea needs is good design to make it work.

[6972082600]

There are so many devices with free energy from people that do not have the knowledge of the things and i am so disappointed because i really ike the subject. In order to create a motor that self runs, is impossible

[kamalmichael]

Dont give up too easily. Have you seen my compass engine idea ?

[6972082600]

but...if you feed the mechanism with energy from the enviroment that it is free around this is really possible. Thank you however for your effort.

[kamalmichael]

To tell you the truth, im not a free energy advocate. However, using things availble already and with good design, i think we can tap in a lot of things like earth spin, earths magnetic field, atmosphere pressure , gravity, ect ect ect

[UnderManiac]

Earth spin? To take any advantage of that, you'd have to use a point outside the atmosphere. Any point on the earth, up to the end of the atmosphere is a stationary point. Experiments have been conducted on the rotation of the earth. Raise a balloon craft, keep it stationary and let the earth spin beneath. Didn't work, as the atmosphere also rotates with the earth, discounting wind.

[afcmcp]

If you could harness the earths rotation you would be slowing the earth down. This would cause the lunatic fringe to go WILD!!!! ECO CRIME,,, the earth will stop spinning and the whales will die,,, I can just hear them all whining now (for their free piece of the pie) Even if you could get it to work by tying a rope to the moon you would be creating a new horrific ECO CRIME,, Gravity ECO crimes!! I can just hear it now, Yup!

[UnderManiac]

I agree with you here. The earth would slow down, causing the day to creep slowly longer. However, there is no way to harness the rotation of the earth without a point outside the atmosphere. It's a fool's errand.

[kamalmichael]

i hope im the first 2 arrested 4 gravity eco crime :)

[Truthiness231]

Actually, this is quite easily testable, and also mechanically wrong in the drawing, of course. As soon as that flap on the bottom left opened, water would shoot up rather than oil going down if the levels were as shown in the drawing.

This is also easily understandable with just a few of the basic laws of mechanics: you only lose power when work is performed; you can't gain power without taking it from something else. "Free energy" by definition is bullshit.

[kamalmichael]

there are different versions out . This was just the beginning although introducing the oil at the shallow end and the shear weight of oil on top may stop water shooting in. I will post actual experiment of the latest version to you

[smartstuff2buy]

kamalmichael, i have a new update to this design, using the generator blades on the inside of the water, and let the oil turn it as it goes up, instead of going down with gravity. if you like this, you can update the video id, and let me know if u change it.

[blepat]

Ok, then just build it and put in the next vid showing a workable device.

[kamalmichael]

love to .  Are you trying to tell me that, the fact, oil can be made to drop and rise endlessly cannot be put to good use ???

[basecius]

No, he's saying that what you call a fact is actually wrong.

[blepat]

No! Force of the watercolumn will resist the oil penetrating the water.

[Desertphile]

"Force of the watercolumn will resist the oil penetrating the water."

The idiot idea in this video was published in "Scientific American" nearly twenty years ago and physicists explained why the idea does not work. A column of sea water using its own weight to push through a permiable membrane that removes the salt; the fresh water is lighter than salt water, so it "should" rise: it does, but not as high as the salt water input level.

The idea was refuted long ago.

[kamalmichael]

there is no level issue. imagine a long u tube with a wide side and a narrow side. Fill half way with water. drop oil into the narrow side. oil at a higher level. No level problem

[Desertphile]

"there is no level issue. imagine a long u tube with a wide side...."

The idea was debunked, mathematically, almost 20 years ago. I suggest you come up with something that has not already been disproved.

[kamalmichael]

not at the shallow end