Galatians 4 and the Sabbath

[Howie47]

(Nice try, at explaining away Paul's words.) How ever. In his arguments with others about the law. Paul clearly stated about the Gentiles & their duty to the law. That None should be laied on them except. "to refrain from fornication", and "to keep themselves from idols". Two of the ten commandments. So NO there is no difference in what laws Paul is talking about in these verses. Thanks

[Jondadon2006]

? I don't undertsand. Where is that in Gal 4 friend?

[Howie47]

Is this discussion restricted to Gal 4? In several places of Paul's letters he discuss' the law and our freedom from it. More important, Jesus himself also addressed this issue. End of the story is. "as many that are lead of the Spirit of God, are the Sons of God." People use being under the law as a way of not obeying the Spirit. They believe they are made righteous by the law. Instead of obeying the Spirit of God. Who might just convict them to give to the poor sitting at the gate.

[Jondadon2006]

I am trying to gather the context in the chapter before looking elsewhere. Where does it mention what you said about freedom from the law? I want to check it out

When one is lead by the spirit, it doesn't mean to feed the poor but forget about the 10 Commandments they were a restriction of giving to the poor. It is both we're to do. The Spirit of God does not go against His own written word. Following the life of Christ is keeping the 10 Commandments because He came showing us how to live.

[Howie47]

The Bible is one. Don't worry about out of context of chps. Ro.7:34 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. We no longer serve the law because are flesh is dead with Christ. IF you are under the law, your not under Christ. IF you can't understand Ga.4 How can I help you? Be born again, of the Spirit. The flesh is dead.

[Jondadon2006]

No you have to gather the context because there are the ceremonial laws and the moral law. Paul just says law and you need to study to get the context of which law He is referring to.

And the Bible is clear that being under the law means under the condemnation of the law.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Paul talks of the law of sin and death as.....

[Jondadon2006]

those who break it. This is what we have been delivered from that when Christ said if you hate in your heart, you already have committed murder. Thats what Paul is talking about.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in **newness of spirit**, and not in **the oldness of the letter**

[Howie47]

"The Spirit of God does not go against His own written word. " Your talking just like the Scribes and Pharisees here. They new better then Christ how to be righteous. They had the Law. They didn't need Jesus. How dare Jesus work on the Sabbath? How dare he let his disciples eat with dirty hands. How dare he say he was the Son of God. How dare He let a whore touch him. People under the Law, are carnal. They are still in their sins and walk as men. Crucify the flesh with it's lusts.

[Jondadon2006]

So you are telling me that one can be lead to do this or that even though it may be against the Bible?

By the way you talk of it, I don't think you understand the spirit of the law regarding the Sabbath. If you want to break the Sabbath, it is up to you, no one is forcing you. The papal system changed the Sabbath of Creation showing who the Creator is, to the 1st day of the week. Bible Prophecy even predicts this. Those who are faithful are keeping Gods law. thats why we tell you about Sabbath

[Jondadon2006]

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

To remove the Sabbath of the 10'C, you are denying that God is the creator of Heaven and Earth. To remove this is to justify atheism, and all the other gods. So you need to ask if you believe God is Creator and if so, your actions show by the Sabbath.

[Jondadon2006]

Its not kept for righteousness. How can resting be works? My agenda regarding the Sabbath is that there will be a sunday law which goes against the law of God and this is from Babylon which is the papal power and the Bible says come out of her that you not be partakers of her sins. Telling people about this is based on love because we don't want you to suffer that.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, AND the faith of Jesus.

[Howie47]

I don't know where your getting these off- handed doctrines from. Then speaking them as if they are so solid? Those who keep the commandments of God and the law of God are they who walk in love. (God's love.) (Love is the fulfilling of the law.) No matter how hard, (like the pharisees) we try and keep the law,by works of the flesh, we fail. We must be born again of th Spirit. (as Jesus told the pharisee).The greatest law which all the rest are secondary to, is. "Love"

[Howie47]

Please Memorize: Romans 7:1-6

[Jondadon2006]

I actually studied through Romans 6 7 and 8 before seeing your comments

[Howie47]

I think people can't see this because they haven't seen or confessed all their sin. They think they can still be righteous in the flesh. They try and resurrect their (old sinful nature) and make themselves (right) by the works of the law. Thusly they forsake Grace. "if by grace, then is it no more by works". Ro.11.6 also Jn. 15 which explain how we bare fruit, with out works of the flesh. (are own efforts)

[Jondadon2006]

Why are you commenting as if to say I am saying that we need to keep the law to be saved?

The law doesn't make you righteous. When we come down to the real issue, it is the Sabbath because either way people would say they keep the commandments of God but forget about the day established before creation

My friend study the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation because these are not off handed prophecies.

[Howie47]

So your saying keeping the Sabbath is what saves us?! Which by the way, just happens to be part of the law! Do you have a clear verse from the (New Testament), that says this? Or are you just (crafting) this doctrine form multiple references. OR are you confusing the (Old Testament) with the New?

[Jondadon2006]

Really, are you asking me or are you answering for me?

[Howie47]

Jondadon, You haven't been able to supply a single verse, that directly says we are still under the duty to keep the Sabbath. You have ignored all that Paul the apostle said that is contrary to it. You even have ignored what Jesus said and did about it. "my fathers works on the sabbath, so do I". There never was any law that could direct some one on what they must do to LOVE (obey God). That takes being born again of God's Spirit. Get a clue!

[Jondadon2006]

My friend we need to ask logical questions.

If I was in your house and I say don't steal, does that mean you don't steal in your house alone but you can steal outside your house?

Just because it doesn't say remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy, in the NT, doesn't mean we are not to. Christ clearly said in Matt 19 if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments and then mentions the 10'C in context of the rich young rulers love to man.

Christ clearly said He didn't come to destroy it

[Jondadon2006]

Where in the Bible, the does it mention that we are not to keep one of Gods Laws which identifies sin?. Thats the question you need to ask because we all know that HE already said Remember the Sabbath. Where in the NT does it say don't take the Lords name in Vain? Nowhere. Are we then allowed to do it?

The Sabbath is pointing to Jesus. Do you think Jesus doesn't know He is Creator? Jesus kept the Sabbath but broke it according to the man made laws of the Pharisees. Read Matt 15

[Jondadon2006]

Listen very carefully. If you don't study Paul carefully, you will end up setting up your own destruction as Peter said. For you to say I am ignoring the counsel of Paul is to say Paul is saying we no longer need to keep the commandments that identify sin and thus Paul is a teacher to sin but Christ said

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

[Jondadon2006]

To live under the Spirit is to live according to the will of God because the carnal nature wants to sin. If you are living in sin, you are living against the spirit.

Please read Romans 6 and 7

[Howie47]

We are no longer "under sin" because Jesus became sin for us, and paid for all sin. We are no longer in debt to the law of sin . We are in debt to Jesus Chris. Who fulfilled the law for us. So serve Jesus Christ. Preach Jesus Christ. (no the laws of the old testament) but the full glory and purpose of the NEW.

[Jondadon2006]

Thats heresy. You are trying to put down mercy and leave out justice.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

For you who knows Jesus, I am telling you this. But for someone new to the faith, I bring them to Christ and Christ then shows them how to live through His word.

In your case, you refuse to obey Gods law which IDENTIFIES Him as the CREATOR of all. If you refuse, your only denying His status

[Howie47]

Being the least in the kingdom of heaven isn't the same as "our own destruction". Maybe you should focus on Mat 5:20 "except your righteousness exceeds the Pharisees, ye shall not enter the kingdom." They kept the Sabbath dutifully! Paul said he didn't break the tiniest law, for he was of the strictest sect. After He was saved. He said he was Justified by grace, and no longer needed the law. By the law is the knowledge that the flesh is sinful. We no longer serve God by the law.

[Jondadon2006]

My friend Peter said if you do not understand Paul, you are setting up your own destruction

Justification is not licence to sin!

Am I allowed to kill, steal, commit adultery now that I am justified?

Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? GOD FORBID

Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

. We are not justified if we wilfully disobey God

[Howie47]

I never said we can't sin. That inters into willful sin or our inability to live up to Christ example. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God", If we willfully sin. Then we will be punished. "some beaten with many strips, some beaten with few". We are under his tutor-ledge. His judgment. Not the laws. By the way. If you are under the law to be righteous. You must forsake all, and follow Jesus' life's example. For he fulfilled the true meaning of the law. Don't rebuild the law!

[Howie47]

So if you want to be perfect, "as Jesus said", Then you must forsake all that you have, take up your cross and follow him, to be crucified. If you tell others that the must keep the law to be saved. Then you yourself will be judged by the law and are still under the curse of the law. As it is written, " cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree". Jesus took it for us & set us free form it. So love him. Not your own will worship. I will observe the sabbath. Observe? WDTM?

[Howie47]

Christ did fulfill the law. 100%. For us. So that everyone that believeth in him is justified. Christ has become our Sabbath for us and we worship him and God through him, every day. Not just one day. If you go back to keeping even one point of the law, (to become justified) then, (Paul said) you are indebted to keep the whole law. Being lead by God's Spirit usually coincides with the law. But you can't have the Spirit, by obeying the law. As Jesus told the Pharisees. "be born again"

[Jondadon2006]

Look my friend we have to worship God everyday exactly but we are not to forget the Sabbath which points to God as Creator.

Christ did fulfil the law amen but people just stop there. If you believe, you will obey. Where is your faith with works as James said?

What does it mean that Christ fulfilled the law?

[Jondadon2006]

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness OF THE LAW might be FULFILLED IN US, who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

You see the law and spirit connection?

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

[Jondadon2006]

All I can say is please pray about the Sabbath issue.

Look at the Sabbath commandment from the 10'C not the ceremonial Sabbaths which are nailed to the cross. Ask yourself, if I don't keep it, what am I saying regarding the Sabbath?

"For in six days the LORD *MADE* HEAVEN EARTH AND SEA, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day:" Ex 20:11

Ask yourself if you don't keep it, what are you saying in opposite about the Sabbath commandment.

Take care and pray for one another

God bless

[Howie47]

Actually God only rested from, "the creation process". He didn't let go of the Universe, which is held up by his power every single moment. So you really have allot to learn.

[Howie47]

Watch this video. "Part 3 Re: Matthew 12:1-14 Mandatory Sabbath followers mad at Jesus "

[guitarguitar93]

This is a great vid. Doug Batchelor is one of my favorite evangelists, along with Mark Finley, Shawn Boonstra, and David Asscherick.

[Dawitness11]

This is the verdit: Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. Romans 3:31

[paulgem123]

And I am afriad for the blind aligence that SDA's have for this man. TORAH is the foundation of Our faith YAHUSHUA knew this, Paul Knew this and all the early followers knew this.....I'm afraid because they claim the Remnant is them, this is far from truth. Why because they have never had foundation in Torah.

[paulgem123]

He did not nail to the stake the ceremonial law. The ceremonial laws were suspended because the alter or temple was destroyed and they continued to offer guilt offerings, and others untill 70 AD. Check your Jewish History. And will be brought back in the mellenium Read Ezekiel 43 15-27 and Zech chapter 14.

I am shamed at Pastor Doug's teaching and do not believe it till I hear it. Now that I heard I know that he is preaching lies. The thing missing from SDA's proper Torah understanding.

[hdiylove7]

A lot of people get stuck on this!! Great explanation. Sharing National Sunday Law by A. Jan Marcussen=)

[zigzag1239]

We have to put the words of God and Jesus above ALL men. Paul's writing are not in line with the rest of the holy scriptures. Please view the videos in the playlist on my page and judge for yourself. I seek only the truth in obedience to our Elohim. Don't follow man, your pastor, your church, your traditions or your religion, follow GOD/YHWH/JESUS/YESHUA only. If the teaching does not line up with the words of God/Jesus then it is not from them. Only God is true and only He is good.

[Jondadon2006]

Being under the Law means under the condemnation of the law. Everyone is under grace, even from the OT because when they sinned, they did not die, they has the lamb take their place.

[zigzag1239]

There is nothing bad about trying to keep the laws, of course we will all fall short.The laws are for our own good. Jesus said he came to fulfill the laws and while he was here on earth, He kept the laws, so we are to model Jesus. Too many people are relying on the grace message and 1 prayer at the altar to get them to heaven. We can't rely on what someone tells us a scripture means, we have to read it ourselves. Remove Paul's teachings, there are no contradictions in the bible. God bless u

[paulgem123]

Please don't talk about something you say is done away with. This does not make sense. You should only read the Ten Commandments and the NT if you say the Law of Moses was done away with.

[wislee28]

God sends men pastors to lead others to Christ and to show and explain to them the word of God. Every can read the Bilbe but not all of us understand. This is why he gave the 5 fold ministry for the perfecting of the saints.

[paulgem123]

I agree with you on not following doctrines of men or Church BUT I completely disagree with you on Paul. Shaul was a righteous teacher of Torah and a true follower of Mashiach. Please veiw my video TWO Laws in the Renewed Convenant. Paul was against something but it was not Messiah or Torah.

[zigzag1239]

paulgem123 - the problem I have with Paul is not whether he kept the torah or not. There were only 12 apostles, he misquoted scriptures, he was boastful, and contradicts teaches of Yeshua, the other apostles and himself. He set up the modern christian church system & he wants to be paid for preaching. Although he glorifies YHVH/Yeshua out of one side of his mouth he says follow "ME"&"MY GOSPEL" The wheat and tares are allowed to grow together until the time of harvest. I will watch your vid.

[freshtildeathonline]

It's true. Jesus never did away with the Sabbath Day. Great vid. A good reminder that the Sabbath still stands

[zigzag1239]

I'm sorry, but Pauls writings contridict the words of God and Jesus. If you ignore all of Paul's writings, we are still under the law, we are supposed to imitate Jesus and he kept the laws.

[freshtildeathonline]

When Paul was saying that we are not under law, was he talking about the 10 Commandment laws, or the cerimonial laws? On further study, you will see that Paul upholds the scriptures, not contradict them.

[paulgem123]

When Paul was saying this he meant the Oral Torah...Do you know what that is?

[wislee28]

Rom. 10:4: For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. By trusting in Christ's work the law is fulfilled perfectly. Christ is the end Greek- telos meaning he is the goal of its intent. he completed it and we enter into what he did by faith.

[Jondadon2006]

the Law FOR righteousness.

This is the difference. People cant be righteous through the law. it is looking to Christ where we find righteousness but we are not to make void the Law through believing. I know you won't justify murdering so I don't know what you are saying exactly

[EZlearningVBdotNet]

Amen

[truthsabre7]

If you look at the NT the Apostles kept the Feast of Tabernacles (Annual aHoly Day Sabbaths). Therefore all the Sabbaths..including the annual Sabbaths are to be kept. Also Passover the washing of the feet etc. Christ said to do in remembering Me.

[Jondadon2006]

yes that is right. The passover was the communion right?

[truthsabre7]

No.

[Jondadon2006]

Christ is our passover Lamb. It was fulfilled. Communion is like passover. We no longer need to keep passover

[truthsabre7]

You are sooooo wrong.

[Jondadon2006]

So what do u call communion?

[truthsabre7]

That is a Catholic Term.

[Jondadon2006]

Communion was before Rome. It was established by Christ.

So im not soooooo wrong.

Christ is the passover Lamb

"Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even CHRIST OUR PASSOVER is sacrificed for us:" 1 Cor 5:7

[paulgem123]

So I am o longer worthy of an answer becauase I disagree with your teaching. Do you think I have fallen from Grace? Are you a follower of Doug Batchlor or Yahushua the Messiah????

[damianplus]

Pastor Doug is great and I love is Bible Answer live programme.

God bless