Dion is not a leader - Senate Edition 04 "The Secret ad"

[jmixmac]

I agree with the senate elections. Senators can do what they please in today's system, there are no consequences, i have even heard of some senators showing up drunk. Also the govenor general is a useless waste of taxpayer money on something that only holds traditional value. All the governor general does is he/she resolves and dissolves parliament and signs bills making them official. What a waste of money.

[bleakvista]

haha, I remember this now... this was when Harper was trying to conjure phantom bogeymen to fight while posturing for a potential election... oooh hampered by a Liberal senate... hahaha.. they have to actually show up and vote before they can hamper you.

[bleakvista]

...didn't Harper appoint someone to the Senate and then put them into cabinet shortly after the election?

I find it unlikely Harper will ever act on the Senate A) Piecemeal reform without constitutional amendment could worsen the situation.

B) Why on earth would a prime minister enhance the power of a body that may challenge his authority?

C) An elected senate could weaken provincial governments, by providing greater regional representation at the center. (inter-vs intra state federalism)

[SplattoMan]

He's kept every promise but income trusts. I know and all Canadians who have been paying attention know that Harper will keep this promise.

[fthrcast]

I would venture a guess that these "income trusts" were held by Liberals.(???) Isn't it time that the Liberals are fed from a trough , rather than a table , as they have so lovingly left us at?

[fthrcast]

If you are confident , you don't need to hide behind the walls of any building to know that what you are doing is right. And the dollars speak for themselves. Unbelievable that there is so much corruption - that is not the plan.

[johnowenD]

I agree with the conservatives, but they can be so mean

[SplattoMan]

And the Liberals publicly mocking Stockwell Day's religious beliefs, or stealing a half billion dollars of taxpayer money was nice?

politics is a bloodsport

[fthrcast]

This is only the beginning. The Americans will make it all look like pussy cat dander. They need to know that we are in the middle of America & Europe , and our politicians have been relying upon nothing but their own redundant paycheques within a country that has it's laws clearly marked and documented. The face they are steering is not even on the books , so they think that is best.

[Whoo69]

Canada has a Senate, but it's unelected????? How the hell have they gotten away with THAT? How the fuck can you expect them to represent you if you don't elect em?

[SplattoMan]

our senate works slightly different than yours, but it's still entirely unacceptable that our senators are appointed and not elected.

[Whoo69]

so how much power does this Canadian Senate really have?

[SplattoMan]

all legislation passed in the commons must be approved by the Senate before it comes law. Essentially it's a body of 100 or so unelected appointed members who collectively have veto power over every bill passed by elected MP's (members of parliament). They have the power to dramatically change and even kill legislation and are never held accountable to the electorate. This is an unacceptable entity in modern day democracy.

[Whoo69]

So... how the hell did this Senate even get this power 150 years ago? Did any citizens riot in the streets or get pissed off like they should've?

[SplattoMan]

It was designed constitutionally to give power to regions that are perceived as being under represented in the Commons - the Eastern provinces for example, which have smaller populations, and also as a bargaining chip giving Quebec a certain amount of power to get their blessing in forming Canada. Since then however, it's just become a place of patronage where Prime Ministers send their loyal supporters to retire, doing little work and receiving a huge 6 figure salary.

[SplattoMan]

It essentially was a good idea but has become extremely perverse in the way it's been run. It's time to change or abolish.

[Amebixfan]

Well I agree with you here 100%

More-so leaning towards abolishment, since it's a waste of money to run.

[fthrcast]

There is nothing worse than to hear from an echo somewhere that Canada has sold you out. But the voice is definately from the Liberal Party. If it is a burden - why keep it? Or is this just another crafty ploy to make us all think that we are all upgrading. Upgrading costs alot more than keeping. Thanks to those practices , we have now lost .30 on the US dollar which was BUILT not asked for in Senate.

[PhilipJFry72]

blah, blah, blah

[curtinder69]

i think they have shown alot of class (conservatives) considering the idiots (ndp,bloc,grits) they have to deal with everyday

[akinnon2000]

Is that a joke ? It's official campains ad ? Stacked with Liberals ? lol We just can'T stand primitives contradictory conservative misleadership.

[SplattoMan]

As a voter, the only thing you should be is informed. You don't have to be either neutral or stupid, although it seems too often the latter is true

[mikefastener]

Please gentlemen, let's agree--the best government in Canada is a government without liberal corruption. The liberals need to be out of power for a least 10 years before we can be confident the corruption is over.

Makes sense?

[PhilipJFry72]

AMEN!

[InuvikPhil]

Oh, please let's not start having this U.S-style mudslinging on Canadian airwaves.

Fair debate on the ISSUES, please -- not attack ads! Have some class.

[SplattoMan]

where was your outrage when the Liberal Party pointed a gun at voters in their commercials in 2004? the video is under my account on youtube. attack ads are nothing new in canadian politics

'US style' attack ads? wipe the sleep from your eyes, young grasshopper.

[PhilipJFry72]

The Conservatives have shown alot of class when dealing with the Liberals record of incompetence and sleaze.

Sometimes the truth is not pretty, but a fair debate has to include that truth.

[jdawgizzleshizzle]

funny you dis liberal incompetence phillip, when the conservatives continue blaming liberals 2 years after being elected... I know rome wasn't built overnight but 2 years?!?! I'm thinking you're labelling the wrong party as incompetent

[PhilipJFry72]

FUCK MAN!

2 years as a MINORITY Parliament to correct over 10 years of MAJORITY INCOMPETENCE.

Honestly, what the fuck do you expect? Look at how much obstruction the Liberal Senate has done to the crime bill, and how the Provinces have resisted Health Care interference in the form of wait-times guarantees.

FUCK.

The Liberals and natives. The Liberals and the environment. The Liberals and the military. The Liberals and industry.

They REALLY FUCKED UP.

Get some perspective, dude.

[jdawgizzleshizzle]

Good try fillip. But way off. You talk about the liberals and the environment, true under Chretien there was a lot of inaction. Under Martin though Dion made plans that actually would enable Canada to meet the Kyoto targets. Harper came in and scrapped those plans and has offered next to nothing since. Read the latest report i suggested to mike... Harper has fucked up.

[PhilipJFry72]

BULLSHIT.

You really have no clue about what Canada would have needed to do to meet its Kyoto commitments.

Dion could have made plans, but they NEVER would have been implemented because Kyoto is unworkable.

[jdawgizzleshizzle]

unworkable phillip?? sorry you're way off. European countries have even set targets even higher than Kyoto's and last time I checked the Euro and the pound were tops in the world for currency. Seems pretty workable to me. And what do you mean he could have made plans? He did! Even his friends on the international level say Canada would've met the Kyoto targets had harper left those programs alone. Once again... Harper fucked up.

[PhilipJFry72]

You can SET all the targets you want, but IMPLEMENTATION is something ALTOGETHER different.

OF COURSE his "international buddies" are going to say nice things about him - it's ALL POLITICS. When was the last time someone said "They're just talking out their asses" on the international scene?

Can you list those initiatives and how much they would contributed to Kyoto?

Can you cost them?

Which European countries have met their Kyoto commitments?

How high were their targets compared to ours?

[PhilipJFry72]

You are sorry and WAY OFF.

Harper has NOT fucked-up. He has been a mature, responsible steward of our economy - we are also NOW an ENERGY SUPERPOWER, something which even the experts three years ago didn't think was possible...

Dion, like the Liberals, is all talk, no substance.

[jdawgizzleshizzle]

lol how did he make us a superpower in energy? All that infrastructure was put in place by the liberals lol thanks for that point I didn't realize people were using that term for Canada. And you're gonna question all of those statements eh? about the cost of meeting the targets and last time someone said someone else was talking out of their asses etc? well tell you what, if i answer all those questions then you're going to stfu and admit Dion had it right and harper has it wrong. Deal?

[PhilipJFry72]

We are now an energy superpower because of just how quickly Alberta and now Saskatchewan have developped the oil sands...

I'm sure you must have read about them by now...

And no, NONE of that infrastructure was put in place by the Liberals because the oil sands were not economically viable when the Liberals last paid any attention to Alberta - which was during Trudeau's National Energy Program.

[PhilipJFry72]

And more importantly, are you going to start trumpeting Harper as a good PM once Dion's "credentials" and Kyoto have been exposed as frauds?

[mikefastener]

jdawqizzleshizzle-One simple question...Who has the better environmental record...George Bush and the Republicians or Dion and the lie-berals? Your answer will tell everyone on this board about your honesty. (BTW--not answering the question will do the same!)

Clock is ticking...

[mikefastener]

Isn't that funny....Lie-beral Dalton McLier is blaming the Conservatives in Ontario over 4 years?!?! after Mike Harris left govenment. idawgizzleshizzle, then you must really be disgusted with the Ontario Lie-berals...correct?

[jdawgizzleshizzle]

not even mike. Because at least we see action in Ontario. What has Harper done for the environment? There was a report released yesterday showing 14 areas harper vowed to improve in the environment. He has improved 2 areas. A true leader can reach across party lines to find a way for things to be done. In the last budget, Harper didn't meet with any opposition leaders to make his budget work. He's trying to generate his own defeat even though it won't change the status quo. Some leader.

[PhilipJFry72]

BULLSHIT.

Harper is a strong, mature, responsible leader who has been getting things done in a minority Parliament DESPITE the Liberal-dominated Senate and the continual threats of election forced upon him by the Bloc, NDP, and the Liberals.

The fact that Harper has survived this long shows he's capable of finding common ground with other parties.

How can you possibly be SO wrong?

[mikefastener]

jdawqizzleshizzle--sorry my friend, you avoided the question about Ontario lie-berals and the length of time one can blame a previous gov't. Either drop your comment about Harper blaming the lie-berals after only 2 yrs or post a comment about your utter disgust with Ontario lie-berals playing the blame game after now 5 years. You can't have it both ways!

[rockymountainer]

Wow, you are certainly a pro-conservative person. Too pro-conservative!

[SplattoMan]

I'm just an average, ordinary citizen sick of being shafted by the Liberals.

[rockymountainer]

As a voter, we are supposely to be politically neutral, or politically "stupid" if you like.

[PhilipJFry72]

No, we are not. More to the point, when one party has committed criminal activity as the Liberals have, demonstrated sheer incompetence like the Liberals have, and refuses to acknowledge their behaviour, it does not bode well for Canada to either vote for them or listen to what they have to say.