As someone who lives by a canyon with a small feral cat population I can say TNR does not work. There are still just as many cats just different ones. I understand why people do it out of compassion but in most cased the cats would probably be better off euthanized rather than dying a horrible death. The only way I can see TNR working is in a controlled setting (a confinement/habitat area) not released back out into the wild.
I had one experience with bird-cat. My cat knocked off a bird or two in an adjacent field, and the neighbor bitched about it because she put out a bird feeder to watch the little darlings. "Well, my wife said, I guess your bird feeder just became a cat feeder!"
@MsAnimalProtector Former ferals will harm animals--if they didn't, they wouldn't be alive by any means. Hunting is natural of every cat unless the feline has been taught since a very early age that smaller animals are not to be hunted. A feral cat that doesn't hunt or doesn't wish to hunt will starve to death even if it is able to have access to other food sources.
Half the cats we trap/ TNR are domestic cats abandoned outside. Why dont birders do a major campaign irresponsible pet owners who abandon their unspayed/ unneutered cats out of doors. That is the CORE of this whole problem.We take these domestic cats into our homes. Vet them. Adopt them out to indoor only homes. Go after the real culprits in this problem
I work for a cat shelter and all they do is TNR and I believe it's the best thing because we can live in peace with all animals if we just try. As for YOUR birds, they should be flying, not caught in a cat's mouth!!!
@chickee1ma We would much like to see birds flying, happy and alive than in a cat's mouths. TNRed cats will keep hunting birds no matter what, but apparenty the lives of individual birds are not valuable and can be sacrificed for the sake of non-native, introduced over populated predators.
Humans have much more to do with the decimation of bird populations than cats ever will. Ever expanding human populations mean destruction of habitat for ALL wildlife, not just birds, as we build more subdivisions, shopping malls, pave roads, etc. This is the principal reason for the decimation of all wildlife. This, and pollution. Leave it to humans to try to blame other species for their own wanton behavior.
@tpanitz1 I'm afraid to say that cats are a human-related problem like habitat destruction. Cats are non-native species brought here by humans, their populations are not naturally balanced like those of native predators, their densities are often 10-100 times greater than hose of native predators and they are often supported by humans, such as outdoor cats or feeding stations for feral cats. Just because they aren't the #1 is by no means an excuse to ignore such an enormous problem.
@tpanitz1 Cats ARE a human problem. They were introduced here and they benefit from expanding human populations. Just because they aren't the #1, primary reason does not make the issue smaller.
Did you know the USDA kills MILLIONS of birds every year? They use a poison because farmers don't like birds. Google it-it's called Operation Bye Bye blackbird. And these bird poisons (Avery-cides) are ingested by millions of other birds other than crows and such. How we love to blame cats for the doings of humans. And how much do you think POLLUTION kills birds-cats don't even put a dent in the bird populations which existed for THOUSANDS of years.
@WinterHaven It is by no means fair that you should value cats as individuals while birds and other native wildlife be dismissed as populations. Birds are sentient, feeling individuals like any cat. Also, cats ARE a doing of humans--they were introduced here by us--and just because they are the #2 killer of birds (next to window strikes) does not make them an issue that should not be addressed. Also, there are hundreds of examples were feral and stray cats have depleted bird pops. (next post)
@BirdingCristina (cont.) 1). In canyons in San Diego bird diversity decreased significantly with feral/stray domestic cat populations (Crooks & Soule 1999) 2). Alameda County, CA: A site with a colony of feral cats had significantly fewer resident, migrant and breeding birds than sites without cats Ground-foragin species were never present in the site with cats. In addition, native rodent densitiy was drastically reduced while exotic mice populations increased.(Hawkins 1998) 3).
@BirdingCristina "In North America Coleman and Temple (1996) developed estimates of cat densities in Wisconsin and associated mortality of 8–217 million birds per year"
@njmudpuppy I think people have the greatest negative impact on the environment. The city I live in is thick with smog except after it rains & it only rains about 5 times a year. The summer is nothing but air quality warnings. If the air gunk is hazardous to my big human lungs I shudder to think what it does to smaller creatures that don't live in houses with a/c & air filters. Also, I rarely see feral cats during the day. They are nocturnal.
@CanadaIndieFilm 1. Cats are a human impact. They were introduced by people and have never existed before as natural predators in N. America. And the problem isn't only feral cats,, but all cats that are let outside and end up killing wildlife.
Cats have a huge impact on nature around the globe, they kill insects, reptiles, amphibians and small mammals, if people really cared for nature they wouldn't be spending cash on keeping pet cats. The pet-food industry is making a killing - excuse the pun. Bring back pet licences, very expensive licences, then people will care more.
@68sunshinefun Cats are part of nature, too. And you are obviously quite stupid. If you make pet ownership more expensive, people will dump more animals into the wild, accomplishing the opposite of what you seem to want. As for killing insects, reptiles, amphibians, and small mammals, birds do the same thing. In fact, owls and hawks kill other birds, so they should really be totally wiped out because they are so terribly evil.
@southerner66 hAHAHA... It would be a 'natural' situation if cats were not domesticated and there were natural predators keeping the cats in balance... but humans give them an unfair advantage... Since you call me stupid, on your behalf, I will be sure to lay out some mince and star-fish meat this week.... a sure-fire way to kill pesky moggies! The next 10 cats are on you southern66!! Perhaps you and the cats don't like me, but all the other critters think I am a legend hero!!!
@68sunshinefun So, someone says something to you that you don't like as part of the discussion of a topic, and your response is a threat of violence? That says quite a lot about you and other bird-lovers. I would never sink to the dishonorable and repugnant level of threatening to poison birds because someone wrote something on a website, but one thing I've observed about bird-lovers is you're very quick to resort to threats of violence.
I don't understand TNR programs. We don't do TNR for feral dogs (even relatively harmless yappy ones), raccoons, possums, rodents, or loose pet reptiles, so why cats? If someone wants to neuter feral cats, that's fine. But they should be kept on their own property and not let loose to roam. Anyone else who does that with their non-native pets is fined. Cats should be no different.
From Bird Lore, the Audobon Society's own magazine, 1914:
"The protection of birds should not be urged at the expense of the extermination of other animals because of their alleged occasional attacks upon birds. (Squirrels, for example.) The greatest danger of acting on partial truth regarding animal interdependences makes societies for the protection of birds alone scientifically and educationally unjustified" (Alice Walker Hall, pp. 60-1).
It is in the best interest of the cats-humans and wild life that you keep your cats inside for safe and health issues, everytime you allow your cats to roam you are neglecting them and you need to be held accountable for your cats. We wouldin't have feral cat issues if we had laws to hold domesticated cat owners accountable.Populations of feral cat colonys wont shrink andtill we have accountability laws for the owners of the domesticated cats.
We need laws holding cat owners accountable for there cats, This is a very serious issue and out of control, we have issues with feral cats and domesticated cats due to not having laws to hold people accountable for there cats. domesticated cats are not natural predators to wildlife,it is in the best interest of Humans-wildlife and cats health and safety that we have laws for cats.TNR is a bandaid it does not fix the root of the problem they enable it.
LOL, this is why most birding forums shut down these threads after a couple days: It really is such a contentious topic. As a bird-watcher who also has cats (indoors-only, of course), I see both sides of the argument. Yes, cats are an introduced, "invasive" species which kill native wildlife. Human laziness is what produced feral colonies to begin with. TNR is a viable alternative. Properly managed colonies will shrink over time, & human contact might even help tame some; ferals CAN be tamed.
Bird lovers are doing their homework...while watching feral cats eat and torture native birds. TNR failed in our community and we hired an experienced cat rescue org. to do it. They failed after 5 years of trying. Then we went to Trap and Remove/Destroy. Nobody likes killing them, but it has worked. Hardly any feral cats left, traps out all the time, low cost of disposal, tame ones are adopted out, others are humanely euthanized at the local SPCA, which supports our efforts.
Love your comment, I have resued 160 cats and have a sanctuary because people want to shoot feral cats and poison them, its sickening. Those who feed colonies should have all cats in there colony spayed and nuetured. and yes feral cats can become tamed, I have turned 30 so far.
Unfortunately, TNR is not a viable alternative because it doesn't actually reduce cat populations, or address the inhumanity of abandoning cats to be hit by cars, killed by predators, or to die a horrible prolonged death from disease or infection.
@abcbirds I agree that the inhumanity of abandoning cats isn't addressed, but TNR is much more humane than simply killing the cats. Yes, nature will take its course & cats will be taken by predators; others will die of age or illness. The colony that's properly managed will have diseased cats caught & removed. The colony will gradually shrink, & because they're fed regularly their impact on wildlife will be minimal.
TNR does NOT work at all. My hometown tried it and it really didn't do anything except stabilize the feral colony and let it grow at a steady pace, because no matter what, you can never catch every fertile cat and fix it. TNR might work in some communities, but I think for the suburban/urban communities it is useless.
TNR works - and that has been proven. If it hasn't in your community it most probably is based on lack of patience. Of course it needs time to wait to get the whole procedure work!
Generally speaking: It's not a cat problem the problem is based on human stupidity and lack of insight regarding human's responsibility towards their pets.
No, it hasn't. There are studies on both sides that are legitimately done, so don't try to make it seem as if the debate is over. It has little to do with human ignorance regarding pets. These are not po wittle kitties being dumped by evil people. They are a wild, invasive species many generations over killing off native animal populations for food and sport. TNR might be able to slow a colony's growth, but the cats live decades and still kill too many native animals.
Little to do with human ignorance?the domesticated free roaming cats and feral cats serious issues we have are because of human ignorance, I will say why when we have no laws holding people accountable for there actions it causes anarchy within the communitys,This is a health and safety issue for wildlife,cats,and human's.We would not have feral/domesticated cat issues if we have laws holding owners accountable.
@jccross316 so help pass laws in your community dealing with cat owners. Meanwhile, there are already self-perpetuating feral colonies out there long independent of human control. TNRing them does nothing but guarantee that they can either continue killing wildlife, get hit by cars, die of horrible diseases, or be general pests. TNR is inhumane to me.
i have personally rescued a baby bird on the verge of being pounced on by a cat. the bird's parents were sqwaking away but can't do anything. I say SHOOT these stupid cats! the only good cat is a dead one. plus there are too many of these smelly useless cats around. I think we should conduct a mass rounding up and culling of cats! I have no qualms about poisoning or hurting a cat. they're really stupid hateful things. just kill them!!!
A highly uneducated solution. Humans have caused the overpopulation of cats through laziness. Pure laziness and selfishness on the part of the humans. I have owned several cats and currently own a fierce hunter. Yes, he has caught and killed a few birds, about three a year, maximum, and we are in an area highly populated by birds, even feeding them in our garden, which he frequents daily. Killing all cats... well, suggest we kill all birds? Then there's no cats killing birds either :). Like it?
TNR works to reduce the feral cat population. The problem is, there are not enough of us doing it. If more people helped in TNR efforts (instead of whining about how it doesn't work) the feral cat population would dwindle.
If you have evidence that TNR is reducing cat populations we would be very interested in seeing it. The studies we've see show it doesn't work to reduce feral cat populations, and that colonies remain stable or grow larger over time, causing terrible carnage to other wildlife.
abcbirds, to my knowledge, no one has done a formal study. From my experience, and that of my collegues, we SEE the colonies diminishing once we do TNR. I'd be curious to know what evidence you have that "colonies remain stable or grow larger over time."
By the way, I am also a licensed wildlife rehabilitator, and a VEGAN, concerned about ALL animals. In all the years I have been doing TNR, I have not seen evidence of any of the cats in my colony killing a bird.
Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence at all and it doesn't say anything about the long term effects of TNR and how many cats are killing birds. The other problem is that cat feeding groups won't even give scientists access to the feral colonies so that they cannot be studied effectively.
I don't believe "cat feeding groups won't give access to scientists access." That doesn't even make sense. No "scientist" has ever approached me or any TNR person I know with an interest in studying the feral colonies.
"The research is very clear that if you remove and euthanize feral cats, more cats move in and go into reproductive overdrive, so you're just exacerbating the problem by euthanizing them. If you spay and neuter, you reduce the population, and it's actually a more effective and humane solution for neighborhoods." - Humane League President and CEO, Joan Brown
@taurinecat The exact same thing happens with TNR. Populations have actually been known to increase after TNR (go to abcbirds dot org, click on Cats Indoors campaign, click on Cat Colonies and TNR, click on "Critical Assessment of Claims Regarding Management of Feral Cats by Trap-Neuter-Return")
@abcbirds And the "studies" that ABC is referring to in its oh-so-authoritative pronouncements on this topic have been thoroughly debunked. It's all junk science supported by inflammatory language (i.e., "carnage") as part of their PR campaign.
In Newburyport,Massachusetts there were about 300 cats 1992
2007 there was 6 cats.
In Norrköping 2005 about 50 cats, 2010 there are 5 cats.
In some smaller colonies there are no cats left.
There are people who feeds both birds and cats in parks ,some for 20 years,and they have seen the decline followed a park landscaping programme which had removed undergrowth needed by birds for food and habitat.
@abcbirds You cite "the studies we've seen." So, which studies are those? In which top-tier, peer-reviewed scientific journals have they been published? And, yes, I know the difference between "popular science" magazines and serious academic journals.
Based on the research I've done on your organization, the only thing you've "studied" is how to choose numbers that sound impressive to a gullible audience.
There are already 4 million cats and dogs that die in shelters, using our tax money to pay for their deaths, TN & find a good home won't work either. From the video we have learned TNR can work, over time, with a lot of effort from concerned individuals. Why don't you get involved, hands on?
@abcbirds Those of us who have checked the "studies you've seen" have found that they rely on numbers grabbed from thin air--made up by "scientists" too lazy to engage in real research. Your strategy is to take phony science and repeat it over and over again until people think it's true, a strategy that bird enthusiast organizations have been employing for at least a hundred years.
@abcbirds If you do TNR to a cat. The cat can't reproduce. If you do it to many cats, they can't reproduce. So how do colonies that can't reproduce grow over time ? If they grow, it's not because of direct reproduction, but because abandoned cats from irresponsible owners join in. So you can't blame TNR. The problem lies with not enough people doing it and not taking full responsibility of their pets.
@abcbirds My mother helps with a TNR program on the campus of the University of Florida. they have not trapped an unaltered cat or had any new kittens born in their colony in years since staring the program I think 7 years ago. It does take dedication and it does take a few years and all the kittens that were caught were not returned they were domesticated and adopted to home after being sterilized. I am a cat owner and bird lover too. but trapping and killing cats is not acceptable either.
My heart bleeds for those poor birdwatchers who have been inconvenienced by cats. They're also saying TNR doesn't work because people are dropping off their cats into colonies? That's a different problem, that has nothing to do with TNR (except that if the colony wasn't sterile because of TNR, drop-offs would be creating a far larger problem!!) "Relocate" just moves the problem somewhere else. It's not a solution, unless they're really talking about relocating the cats to the landfill, dead.
We people can surely be ashamed of our treatment of both cats and birds. The enormity of the problem is staggering. I could never end the life of a healthy animal. "Relocation" sounds like a euphimism for euthanasia. We need a grass roots effort to build enclosed shelters for feral/abandoned cats. Could ABC and ACA agree to publicize and share information to communities about building/supporting such places? Maybe each of us could lobby at the local level for a co-op project in our area.
a authert sloution is to catch and fine the heck out of the tweedle dums that are dumping new cats out in diches or in the park thare lazyness is costing our songbird population and it not fare for the
The number one killer of birds are not the cats but HABITAT LOSS ergo, HUMANS.
TNR ensures that the cat population is controlled as opposed to leaving them to breed out in the wild. When feral cats are fixed, their population DECLINES over time.
Do your research before spreading misinformation like this.
cont - species commensal with humans coexist. We collectively can create bird micro habitats in our backyards if we simply QUIT MOWING THE LAWN and plant native species. Those McMansions subdivisions are far more damaging than ferals. I no longer cut the grass and I have many birds and small mammals. We humans are using the feral cat as an easy scapegoat for our irresponsible mishandling of habitat. If we create more habitat, we will have more songbirds. Til then spay/neuter!
Being both a cat lover and active in cat rescue, as well as a member of Audubon, I realize that feral cats impact songbird populations. Bird and cat people have to work together to humanely reduce feral cat populations. TNR is one option; taming feral kittens and strays is another. While very sick cats should be euthanized, a massive feral cat killing or hunting is not something that most people would tolerate. In order to reduce feral cats, we have to reduce edge habitat and areas where
We've turned cats into an invasive species because ignorant, lazy people will not have their cats neutered and will not keep them inside the house where they can do no harm. People who do not have the funds to have their cats spayed should NOT have the cats as pets.
@susan987654 And then the American Bird Conservancy (whose youtube page this is) sues in Los Angeles to put an end to a City-sponsored spay/neuter program.
Cats aren't part of nature they were introduced by humans so birds have little defense against them. With habitat loss, pesticides, hunting, weather, and numerous other things against wildlife why not add cats?
Humans are a part of nature too. I'm sure every animal on this continent wasn't here since the beginning of time. How long does an animal have to live in an area before its considered native? .
I'm only ok if a cat kills a bird for food, but when cats do it for fun or something, that's what I hate... but cats will be cats, especially wild ones.
I agree with you Nuke - but I hate to see any animal die regardless. Some cats hunt out of instinct, not for fun - but some cats do kill to eat as well.
I HATE to see birds die too, especially killed by cats and falcons. I have 13 birds of my own that I love dearly. I hate any animal dying... cows, chickens, pigs, fish, bugs etc.
But you can't go out stopping every single animal out there... I'm cool as long as they eat the animal they killed, though one species of animal that I would love to stop killing for food are humans. (sorry if that sounds a little weird, I don't know how to exactly word it)
I DO believe TNR takes into account the big picture. Fewer cats born benefits everyone. I don't understand what you mean by making decisions based on how cats 'feel' - I don't know how they feel but I'm pretty sure they probably would not want to go through a surgical operation.
Also why assume all cats run around, torturing and killing birds? I just saw a feral cat in my yard, and it ignored the birds and vice versa. Most cats either are uninterested or can't catch birds.
TNR is not about 'releasing' cats into the community. These feral cats are not owned - and are as close to 'wild' as can be, if you define that as living in the wild. Many have never seen the inside of a home - nor have their forebears in generations. Sterilizing them helps to keep the cat population down.
As for OWNED cats, how does a fine against roaming help? Most responsible owners I know already keep their cats indoors. An irresponsible one faced with a fine, will just abandon the cat.
The problem is how do you enforce these laws? Many people (possibly especially people who like cats) want these irresponsible owners to be punished, but having worked with feral and strays, how easy do you think it is to catch these people in the act? As it is already illegal to dump these cats in most areas, people are not going to do it openly and it is almost impossible to find them.
If the law you are mentioning is to have cat licensing, again how would they be enforced?
There is a difference between a 'stray' cat and a 'feral' cat. A stray cat can be a lost or abandoned cat. A feral cat is the offspring of a stray (or the offspring of an offspring, etc) that no longer is a 'pet' - hence it has reverted to a state where it is no longer 'domesticated'. Who then would we hold responsible for these cats which may be generations removed from any 'owned' cat? Also, what would the fine be for? Abandonment? There are many areas that already have these laws in place.
I totally disagree! I have fed a feral colony for over 5 years, and they have all been TNR'd. I had 20 to 30 cats then and am down to about 8 now. Before TNR one of my cats brought me birds regularly but after I have not recieved a bird since. SO DON'T TELL ME TNR DOESN'T WORK!!
As with any program, if you choose to only identify the programs that haven't worked then of course you are reporting one sided! And as for adopting them out...hello they are feral= wild. GET WITH THE PROGRAM!
Actually, I gave this a lot of thought. MOST PEOPLE do not like killing cats. They die when they go to the pound. SO the wont bother taking them & they breed. There are millions of strays/ferals in every State. These cats breed so fast animal control can't keep up with them. If you have trap-neuter-release more people will take these cats to the pound with the agreement they will not be killed, and returned. So instead of having BREEDING cats, you will have STERILE cats. The choice is yours.
I mean the strays/ferals will be around regardless what you do. Wouldn't you rather have sterilized cats than breeding cats? Cats are highly elusive so animal control can't catch most of them, and they breed like cockroaches. I rather have sterile cats than fertile ones. So I now support TNR. I also support low cost/free spay/neuter programs. Look people don't want to kill cats so they won't be taking them to the pound. TNR will mean they WILL go to the pound and sterilized-no longer breeding.
The "vacume effect" has been proven to be ineffective in the US by USFW & USGS in 100+ cases. Only 10% of cats are TNR'd, rabies shots expire then cats are infected by new cats/ unvaccinated cats in colony. I'm alright with being top of the food chain. Making responsible decisions like euthenasia is our job.. Vegans feed sick cows shoveled to slaughter to thier colonies of cats; what is the difference b/w slaughter and ridding ourselves of pests...TNR made feral cats classify as pests
Except these cats are highly elusive and they breed faster than animal control can catch them. One single pair of breeding cats will have over 2 million cats in 10 years.
Look I don't like the "TNR" thing either, because outdoor cats live short miserable lives. However, most people are not going to be taking them to the pound because most NORMAL people do not like killing cats. Industrial pollution has more to do with the demise of birds than cats. I also know a lot of kids like getting BB guns and shoot birds for kicks because their parents say its okay to do.
Thanks to critter cam technology I can prove a bird a day has been taken from my bird refuge thanks to abandoned/neglected cats dying of starvation, freezing and disease - Cat lovers? You people love nothing but your hypocricy. Come here and pick up the carcasses from coyote eating your felines and hearing the cats wail all night in pain from hunger. I will sue under Humane Law for ruining my property with your misguided, myopic and delusional crusade to allow cats to roam!
And it still does not work, TNR does...all you are doing is killing the same amount of cats over and over. TNR will diminish the colony over time. Besides ferals are not the major reason for the decline. People are!!!
To be 100% opposed to TNR unreasonable since it does work in some communities. The key to all of this is education. If people learn to take pet ownership and animal welfare seriously, they will not mistreat or dump their pets like garbage in the street. While the bird populations may be suffering, lets not forget that feral cats are a man made problem and they suffer greatly as well. We need to step up our efforts on a national level to curb the feral cat population.
Why are they blaming TNR for the fact that irresponsible people dump their pets in TNR colonies? What needs to happen is a combination of TNR in areas that are rural/suburban and pose less of a threat to animals and people, along with animal dumping fines and education about pet ownership. In cities, where strays face the greatest dangers and lowest quality of life, there should be more emphasis on adoption, along with stiff dumping penalties and education about pet ownership.
If an unowned cat lives an average of two years , they obviously have a very low quality of life and often suffer horrific deaths. How, then, is TNR more humane than euthanasia?
I watched the starlings and house sparrows take out the entire nesting colony of swallows at my parents. They pulled the eggs and young out the nest and pecked them to death to steal their nests. They're introduced species. What does ABCbirds plan to do about that? Relocate the billions of them back to the British Isles? They're ten times more destructive than feral cats on song bird populations.
Actually, starlings & house sparrows are netted & euthanized in many critical areas and this is supported by most if not all birders & conservation organizations. The difference is that they harm only select cavity nesters while cats harm all species at much greater numbers.
I understand where ABCbirds is coming from, but they are speaking from a "not my problem" point of view. It's not as simple as saying, "oh let's just trap, spay/neuter/, and relocate/find homes for all these thousands of cats." Shelters are doing that every single day. That's what animal adoption IS.
Ferel cats aren't going to just disappear. At least TNR takes the step to ensure that the inevitable population of ferel cats are not reproducing. Doesn't that mean anything to these people?
that is just in one area where this video was recorded. you know what until we humans are gone there will be feral, stray and friendlies outside. blame the humans for starting the problem I trap about 1000 cats per year. this doesnt even begin to count the kittens i try to take out of the site I tnr. unfortunately you can't give the PINK stuff to all the cats these people want killed. so you know what just TNR and try and SOLVE the problem than bitch about it
MsHammerhead - I don't know who 'these people' are you refer to but nowhere in the video is there any mention killing cats. REMOVAL of cats from the outdoors was the solution given. Domestic cats are NOT in any way part of North America's natural ecosystems. Yes, humans have and will continue to be ultimately responsible for the problem and we will go nowhere fast if we cannot agree on upon solutions. Accusations of 'these people' solely wanting to kill cats is a bad start.
where else do you plan to take the feral cats? sanctuaries? relocate them. not enough of either. so the only other options is to kill them. while "this" video did not say to have them killed I hear IT all the time. So I am speaking from experience that most people really do want to kill the cats. As for the friendlies well not enough homes for them either. Yes I know cats ARE not apart of the ecosystem. DUH. Pestisides and destruction of habitat are worse for birds.
Sanctuaries exist and more need to be created. Many TNR programs have adopted out cats and, yes, some have even completely removed their feral colonies. I don't believe, however, that "most people" want to kill cats. Check the Alley Cat Allies site for their national poll result. While habitat loss is one of many problems for bird populations and ABC & other groups continually fight against, cats in those remaining habitat fragments are an ecological disaster. Cats Indoors.
really so is going to pay for these places. i would rather pay for health care for humans. as it is we can't find enough volunteers to help take care of the sancturary. ACA well i am not a fan of them so don't really care what they say. again i am actually speaking from experience HERE. yes agreed cats indoors again talk to the asshole who dumps their UNALTERED cat and it has kittens. most laws cant and dont prosecute for that
Work to change the laws to prosecute dumpers. Fight to get money to pay for sanctuaries. The bird groups have had and continue to fight to protect, it's not any easier for them (try dealing with migratory birds that spend their lives moving between Canada and Argentina). Unfounded accusations from both sides just make things worse and there absolutely needs to be more efforts to find solutions. There are enough wars already in the world
I agree with many of your points but I still believe TNR is beneficial in some communities. It's a positive step to take while we wait for more sanctuaries to be built and for the laws to be changed to prosecute animal dumpers. Animal shelters around the country are overwhelmed and relocation of all those cats is not realistic--there are millions of feral cats in New York City alone! Thank you for posting serious comments. People who have posted cruel and idiotic statements only hinder progress.
Studies show that cats are NOT responsible for killing many birds. In fact they have a preference toward rodents and lizards instead. And even if that were so, this is a bliant case of animal bias. Bird lovers are bias toward wild birds and want to see the cats killed, cat lovers can't stand to see feral cats "suffering" and being eaten by coyotes. But both parties fail to understand that who stays and who goes is up to nature and Evolution, not man.
AlienDragon - please state your sources supporting your first and second claim. As for nature and evolution, the domestic cat is not a species native to the Americas and its impact on local wildlife is anything but natural. Cats have and continue to cause extinctions of entire SPECIES of birds around the world. As for coyotes eating cats and accusations that bird lovers promote killing cats, I recommend re-watching the video at ~ 8:00
I agree. I live in the city (Houston) and everytime I walk my dogs offleash (Pit Bull, Doberman), people give me such crap about how irresponsible I am and how my dogs chase after their cats. My dogs kill an average of 1 cat a week. And in my opinion, I agree with "Nature's Course". My dogs are roaming free and so are their cats, whatever happens happens.
If you keep doing that, your dogs could harm a person and then they would be taken away from you and possibly put down. Feral cats are a man made problem and letting your dogs chase after them is not allowing nature to run its course--it's stupid and barbaric, and your dogs could end up getting injured in the process. Please be a responsible pet owner and stop walking your dogs without a leash--it's the law.
Trap/neuter/release programs cause a gradual decline in feral cat colonies. Though there may at first be a decrease in the birds, later they will repopulate. Not all the birds will die.
Prey and Predator. This is life. Get over it. Some birds are gonna die, but without spay neuter so will a ton of cats.
I hate to see these kind of things because I am part of TNR programs and these people make it difficult to get our work done.
What poppycock and nonsense! Yes I admit that cats kill birds, but cats are not wholely responsible for decimating the songbird population. If they do not want TNR, and only propose euthanaisa of cats, then that is cruel. Why not euthanize all birds to prevent thier suffering? I have done TNR in many areas
The indoor/outdoor and feral cat population on my little block
in Chestnut Hill in Philadelphia Pa has exploded in recent years. Chipmunks have disappeared altogether and our song
bird population is both stressed and dwindling. I removed our bird feeders three years ago to protect my emotional health from the sight of so much slaughter. The offending
neighbors cannot be reasoned with, of course. One, an avid bird watcher, is an activist TNR. Realize the dilemmas. Need creative advice.
Trap/Neuter/Return is designed to reduce cat populations, not eliminate them entirely and the method has been proven to be more effective in reducing numbers than trap and remove. Cats do kill some birds, however they are not responsible for destroying the native songbird population....the study many bird advocates cite as proof for cats killing millions of songbirds wasn't, in fact, a study at all rather a PROPOSAL for a study which was never funded. The authors themselves discredit the claim.
There was a study done by Andersen showing that euthanasia is more effective. The 'proposal' you mention is a red herring - there are plenty of studies showing the impact cats have on wildlife, including Hawkins et al and Lepczyk et al.
I think that these feral cats should be controlled with humane euthanasia or hunting seasons like other exotic or feral animal populations. It would be the most cost effective way to help control feral cats.
thats the dumbest thing i've heard!! Hunt the cats?? Ok a feral cat (wild housecat basically) and a housecat look pretty much the same!! How the hell are you gonna feel when someone comes to you because you shot someone's beloved pet.Seriously.I think this is a good idea to keep the wild ones from breeding..just remember people are still gonna be irresposible and be dropn off cats as well as any other kind of animal that they were dumb enough to get.
and I'm willing to be my life that humans are more to blame for the birds deaths than cats are from the pollution and overpopulation and edging them out of their trees by killing them I say TNR the humans there are wayyy to many of them
A lot of people are so selfish!!! ''I want a cat!'' ''I do not want to take responsibility''! ''I need money so I am going to get rid of the cat''....
This is why I wish there was a ton of red tape and extra money people should pay before being allowed to have a domestic animal. Almost anyone with enough money and okay credit can walk right into a pet store without ANY knowledge or experience and buy a cat! Or people can get kittens for FREE without having to do any paperwork! That is ridiculous.
DID YOU KNOW Alley Cat Allies is AGAINST spay/neutering legislation? Alley Cat Allies perpetuates animal cruelty. TNR not only breeding more stray cats-but the fact that the cats are HOMELESS - they die slowly of intestinal worms and countless fleas until anemic, predation, human cruelty; people poison them with antifreeze DELIBERATLY or cats lick the leaking antifreeze under cars-I seen that myself in a parking lot. I had to chase it away. Only 1/4 teaspoon will kill the cat with great agony.
The majority of cats that are TNR'ed are FERAL. They are NOT adoptable. They also show a clip from a TNR project that reduced their cat population from 2000 to 500 in 15 years! That's incredibly successful, but instead they claim it is "ineffective" because it failed at "ELIMINATING the problem". Nobody is claiming that TNR will ELIMINATE stray cats, but it clearly has GREATLY REDUCED the population. I could go on and on. This video is just ridiculous.
For years Alley Cat Allies claimed that TNR did eliminate the colonies - some groups still do. Plenty of these colonies have much more than true feral cats - even friendlies get put back some times when a home cannot be found.
This video is clearly biased and misinformed. Nobody claims that TNR is perfect, but it is better than the alternatives. The idea that we can change "return" to "remove" is absurd! Where are we going to put al these cats? Who is going to fund the sanctuaries? Aren't they aware that the shelters are already overflowing with cats that are adoptable and that millions are EUTHANIZED each year because there aren't enough homes for them?
Do you have some evidence to back up your statement that the video is misinformed? As an ecologist, I am not willing to sacrifice our native small mammals and birds to feral cats. Since humans obviously won't take responsibility for their pets by spaying and neutering them, they should probably be euthanized. It's sad, but the native wildlife has enough pressures without cat predation--we caused the problem, we need to deal with it.
Of course the cat is NOT to blame. People are at fault - those who let their pet cats roam, those who dump cats, and those who release them to the wild where they do not belong through TNR! Education is key, but we are not going to get people to change their behavior if we condone outdoor cat colonies.
I have seen the problem of people not spaying and neutering their pets for almost 50 years now--there will always be people who aren't responsible for their pets and who dump them as soon as they get tired of them. Since education hasn't worked, something else must be done. Of course it isn't the cat's fault, but we can't sit back and watch our native songbird populations be destroyed either.
Vermin mommies really. I don't think so. Humans did this to the cats. So we have to deal with it. Humans just dump their cats and the cats are fixed well there is your problem. Prosecute them!!! People don't want to take their cats to the shelters to be killed. POLLUTION and the loss of HABITAT are what is killing the birds. Fertilizers on golf courses and YOUR YARDS. run off into the water. you cat leash cats. go after the people you don't spay and neutor
It is true that habitat destruction is the number one problem for wildlife. However, cats are killing far more songbirds and other native wildlife than pesticides. Cats are second only to collisions with buildings for human-caused mortality of birds when you take out habitat destruction. I'd like to see cats controlled like dogs are. They carry disease and are a threat to native wildlife. It's not just the feral cats that are a problem, it's all outdoor cats.
wendelin1 - I don't understand your argument. If wildlife and birds are the ones carrying the disease, then are you saying birds should be killed? Avian flu doesn't need a cat to be transmitted to people.
TNR does not violate leash laws - these cats aren't owned, they are feral cats. Caregivers are helping to manage an existing problem - they're not the ones abandoning the cats in the first place.
As for the comment on Alley Cat Allies, they do not support spay/neuter mandatory laws because in the jurisdictions they have been tried out in they don't work. Most people do not neuter because they can't afford it. Levying a fine on these people will not work. Instead, make spay/neuter cheaper.
Cats free to roam and eat diseased rodents , birds etc can carry over thirty fatal diseases which are transmitted to humans including rabies. Dangerous threat to the public health and a four legged holocaust on wildlife. First fatality will bring tombstone legislation to end this insanity.These whacked out "Vermin Mommies" should get library cards and try reading or doing something constructive.
You stupid ignorant woman...YOU should read and find the only cases of rabies for two ywars in PA are from your precious hair balls, and toxoplasmosis; check out the CDC info on that - or can you research
The economy is bad so people will be dumping their cats on the streets especially these cat compounds thinking someone will take care of them. TNR is BAD NEWS!!!
Did you know Alley Cat Allies is AGAINST spay/neuter legislation? If people did what they were supposed to do-these laws would not affect them. So by their own admission, they are cat breeders.
YEAH AND I'm sure they know which ones got a rabies vaccination and new one every year. These cats only get a one time dose of rabies vaccination their whole lifetime.
Why do you think the coyote population is growing? They have lots of CAT MEAT to eat! TNR cats become snacks for coyotes, and targets of human cruelty as well.
TNR also violates leash laws and is guilty of pet abandonment-as soon as you capture that cat-it is YOUR cat. YOUR responsibility-THESE ARE DOMESTIC CATS. THEY DO NOT BELONG OUTDOORS.
I agree with kathydoucette. The numbers tossed around are just estimates.
I also have several bird feeders up and I've never seen a bird killed by a cat.
People often forget that cats can be very clumsy and birds a lot smarter than you think.
I also fail to understand : why is is okay to kill (ie 'euthanise') a cat, but not okay when a bird is killed? It is upsetting when I see a hawk in my tree checking out my songbirds, but no one seems to think we ought to be killing hawks.
One reason that you don't see birds killed by a cat is they're nocturnal. You don't see dead birdsin the yard because cats take the birds off to tall grass or shrubs to eat the birds.
Cats are not necessarily nocturnal - they're mostly active during the day. Clearly birds are active during the day, and if the cats are nocturnal, how are they killing the birds?
If it is a species of songbird NOT in danger, then it's okay to have it killed? That doesn't make any sense either. I'm sure you like animals - and wouldn't want to kill ANY of them. If we start putting value judgments on which animal is more rare - than does that mean certain birds 'deserve' to die if they start crowding out other birds? Or that hawks 'deserve' to die if they kill a native songbird that is in 'danger'?
What poses the most threat to birds are us - people - not cats.
Cat owners and feral cat caretakers who claim their animals do not prey on birds and other species are either uninformed, are in denial, or are simply being dishonest. Miriad studies have proven that cats are instinctive and effective predators, and that their predation instinct is decoupled from their hunger. Cats kill other animals because they are programmed to do so. To maintain cats outdoors is inhumane to the cats themselves and to the animals on which they prey.
I moved into a new house and set up feeders and installed a solar bird bath heater/fountain, plenty of nest boxes and roost boxes. I didn't realize is that my neighbor had 30 feral cats but his house is overgrown with shrubs but I started seeing feathers in my shrubs and behind my garage with bird bones.
I ended up trapping every single one of them and taking them in to the animal shelter euthenization.
As someone who lives by a canyon with a small feral cat population I can say TNR does not work. There are still just as many cats just different ones. I understand why people do it out of compassion but in most cased the cats would probably be better off euthanized rather than dying a horrible death. The only way I can see TNR working is in a controlled setting (a confinement/habitat area) not released back out into the wild.
feriwarlock 1 month ago
I had one experience with bird-cat. My cat knocked off a bird or two in an adjacent field, and the neighbor bitched about it because she put out a bird feeder to watch the little darlings. "Well, my wife said, I guess your bird feeder just became a cat feeder!"
79barkingspider 1 month ago
@MsAnimalProtector Former ferals will harm animals--if they didn't, they wouldn't be alive by any means. Hunting is natural of every cat unless the feline has been taught since a very early age that smaller animals are not to be hunted. A feral cat that doesn't hunt or doesn't wish to hunt will starve to death even if it is able to have access to other food sources.
BirdingCristina 1 month ago
Half the cats we trap/ TNR are domestic cats abandoned outside. Why dont birders do a major campaign irresponsible pet owners who abandon their unspayed/ unneutered cats out of doors. That is the CORE of this whole problem.We take these domestic cats into our homes. Vet them. Adopt them out to indoor only homes. Go after the real culprits in this problem
Merrywms 4 months ago
I work for a cat shelter and all they do is TNR and I believe it's the best thing because we can live in peace with all animals if we just try. As for YOUR birds, they should be flying, not caught in a cat's mouth!!!
chickee1ma 4 months ago
@chickee1ma We would much like to see birds flying, happy and alive than in a cat's mouths. TNRed cats will keep hunting birds no matter what, but apparenty the lives of individual birds are not valuable and can be sacrificed for the sake of non-native, introduced over populated predators.
BirdingCristina 1 month ago
Humans have much more to do with the decimation of bird populations than cats ever will. Ever expanding human populations mean destruction of habitat for ALL wildlife, not just birds, as we build more subdivisions, shopping malls, pave roads, etc. This is the principal reason for the decimation of all wildlife. This, and pollution. Leave it to humans to try to blame other species for their own wanton behavior.
tpanitz1 4 months ago
@tpanitz1 I'm afraid to say that cats are a human-related problem like habitat destruction. Cats are non-native species brought here by humans, their populations are not naturally balanced like those of native predators, their densities are often 10-100 times greater than hose of native predators and they are often supported by humans, such as outdoor cats or feeding stations for feral cats. Just because they aren't the #1 is by no means an excuse to ignore such an enormous problem.
BirdingCristina 1 month ago
@tpanitz1 Cats ARE a human problem. They were introduced here and they benefit from expanding human populations. Just because they aren't the #1, primary reason does not make the issue smaller.
BirdingCristina 1 month ago
Did you know the USDA kills MILLIONS of birds every year? They use a poison because farmers don't like birds. Google it-it's called Operation Bye Bye blackbird. And these bird poisons (Avery-cides) are ingested by millions of other birds other than crows and such. How we love to blame cats for the doings of humans. And how much do you think POLLUTION kills birds-cats don't even put a dent in the bird populations which existed for THOUSANDS of years.
WinterHaven 4 months ago
@WinterHaven It is by no means fair that you should value cats as individuals while birds and other native wildlife be dismissed as populations. Birds are sentient, feeling individuals like any cat. Also, cats ARE a doing of humans--they were introduced here by us--and just because they are the #2 killer of birds (next to window strikes) does not make them an issue that should not be addressed. Also, there are hundreds of examples were feral and stray cats have depleted bird pops. (next post)
BirdingCristina 1 month ago
@BirdingCristina (cont.) 1). In canyons in San Diego bird diversity decreased significantly with feral/stray domestic cat populations (Crooks & Soule 1999) 2). Alameda County, CA: A site with a colony of feral cats had significantly fewer resident, migrant and breeding birds than sites without cats Ground-foragin species were never present in the site with cats. In addition, native rodent densitiy was drastically reduced while exotic mice populations increased.(Hawkins 1998) 3).
BirdingCristina 1 month ago
@BirdingCristina 3). In Bristol, Unitek Kingdom, Baker et al calculated that the "predation rates by cats on 3 bird species in an urban
area is high relative to annual productivity, which led the
authors to suggest that the area under study may be a
habitat sink. The fear of cats exhibited by birds can result
in population declines even if predation is low or absent
(Beckerman et al. 2007)."
BirdingCristina 1 month ago
@BirdingCristina 4). "Cat predation on mammals (Hawkins
1998; Baker et al. 2003; Meckstroth et al. 2007), reptiles
(Iverson 1978), and even invertebrates (Gillies & Clout
2003) is also cause for concern because of direct impacts
to native species and competition with native predators
(George 1974). Rare and endangered species of birds,
mammals, and reptiles are documented victims of feral
cats (Winter 2004, 2006)."
BirdingCristina 1 month ago
@BirdingCristina 5). "Churcher and Lawton (1987) concluded that
cats were responsible for 30% of the mortality of House
Sparrows (Passer domesticus) in an English village" 6). "From a survey of cat owners that documented prey returned by 696 cats, Woods
et al. (2003) estimated that the 9 million cats in Britain
kill at least 52–63 million mammals, 25–29 million birds,
and 4–6 million reptiles each summer.
BirdingCristina 1 month ago
@BirdingCristina "In North America Coleman and Temple (1996) developed estimates of cat densities in Wisconsin and associated mortality of 8–217 million birds per year"
BirdingCristina 1 month ago
Stupid people think we should kill one species to protect another...pitiful!
kathyk214 5 months ago
@canadlndieFilm nothing will change my mind, plus it's only happening in the US. So I don't give a f**k
luckable3 6 months ago
@njmudpuppy I think people have the greatest negative impact on the environment. The city I live in is thick with smog except after it rains & it only rains about 5 times a year. The summer is nothing but air quality warnings. If the air gunk is hazardous to my big human lungs I shudder to think what it does to smaller creatures that don't live in houses with a/c & air filters. Also, I rarely see feral cats during the day. They are nocturnal.
CanadaIndieFilm 6 months ago
@CanadaIndieFilm 1. Cats are a human impact. They were introduced by people and have never existed before as natural predators in N. America. And the problem isn't only feral cats,, but all cats that are let outside and end up killing wildlife.
BirdingCristina 1 month ago
@luckable3 You provide food and water to the cats once you release them.
CanadaIndieFilm 6 months ago
Cats have a huge impact on nature around the globe, they kill insects, reptiles, amphibians and small mammals, if people really cared for nature they wouldn't be spending cash on keeping pet cats. The pet-food industry is making a killing - excuse the pun. Bring back pet licences, very expensive licences, then people will care more.
68sunshinefun 8 months ago
@68sunshinefun Cats are part of nature, too. And you are obviously quite stupid. If you make pet ownership more expensive, people will dump more animals into the wild, accomplishing the opposite of what you seem to want. As for killing insects, reptiles, amphibians, and small mammals, birds do the same thing. In fact, owls and hawks kill other birds, so they should really be totally wiped out because they are so terribly evil.
southerner66 8 months ago
@southerner66 hAHAHA... It would be a 'natural' situation if cats were not domesticated and there were natural predators keeping the cats in balance... but humans give them an unfair advantage... Since you call me stupid, on your behalf, I will be sure to lay out some mince and star-fish meat this week.... a sure-fire way to kill pesky moggies! The next 10 cats are on you southern66!! Perhaps you and the cats don't like me, but all the other critters think I am a legend hero!!!
68sunshinefun 8 months ago
@68sunshinefun So, someone says something to you that you don't like as part of the discussion of a topic, and your response is a threat of violence? That says quite a lot about you and other bird-lovers. I would never sink to the dishonorable and repugnant level of threatening to poison birds because someone wrote something on a website, but one thing I've observed about bird-lovers is you're very quick to resort to threats of violence.
southerner66 8 months ago
what is the point of re-releasing these animals? why not just euthanize them and help get rid of the Feral cat pest problem.
grimreap22 9 months ago
I don't understand TNR programs. We don't do TNR for feral dogs (even relatively harmless yappy ones), raccoons, possums, rodents, or loose pet reptiles, so why cats? If someone wants to neuter feral cats, that's fine. But they should be kept on their own property and not let loose to roam. Anyone else who does that with their non-native pets is fined. Cats should be no different.
Fleefles 1 year ago
The ONLY cat colonies that should be outside are enclosed/full fenced colonies. Anything else is really: TNR: Trap, neuter re-abandon.
HawkMother 1 year ago
There's no way that returning a free roaming cat after trapping and neutering it is the right thing to do.
habyss 1 year ago
From Bird Lore, the Audobon Society's own magazine, 1914:
"The protection of birds should not be urged at the expense of the extermination of other animals because of their alleged occasional attacks upon birds. (Squirrels, for example.) The greatest danger of acting on partial truth regarding animal interdependences makes societies for the protection of birds alone scientifically and educationally unjustified" (Alice Walker Hall, pp. 60-1).
Walker was one of the journal's editors.
southerner66 1 year ago
@southerner66 The problem is that unlike squirrels, cats are non-native introduced species who are overpopulated and supported by humans.
BirdingCristina 1 month ago
It is in the best interest of the cats-humans and wild life that you keep your cats inside for safe and health issues, everytime you allow your cats to roam you are neglecting them and you need to be held accountable for your cats. We wouldin't have feral cat issues if we had laws to hold domesticated cat owners accountable.Populations of feral cat colonys wont shrink andtill we have accountability laws for the owners of the domesticated cats.
jccross316 1 year ago
We need laws holding cat owners accountable for there cats, This is a very serious issue and out of control, we have issues with feral cats and domesticated cats due to not having laws to hold people accountable for there cats. domesticated cats are not natural predators to wildlife,it is in the best interest of Humans-wildlife and cats health and safety that we have laws for cats.TNR is a bandaid it does not fix the root of the problem they enable it.
jccross316 1 year ago
LOL, this is why most birding forums shut down these threads after a couple days: It really is such a contentious topic. As a bird-watcher who also has cats (indoors-only, of course), I see both sides of the argument. Yes, cats are an introduced, "invasive" species which kill native wildlife. Human laziness is what produced feral colonies to begin with. TNR is a viable alternative. Properly managed colonies will shrink over time, & human contact might even help tame some; ferals CAN be tamed.
Murphygrif 1 year ago 7
Murphygrif
It's absolutely true what you are stating - it would be wonderful for the ferals sake when more bird lovers do their homework and educate themselves.
biestie 1 year ago
@biestie
Bird lovers are doing their homework...while watching feral cats eat and torture native birds. TNR failed in our community and we hired an experienced cat rescue org. to do it. They failed after 5 years of trying. Then we went to Trap and Remove/Destroy. Nobody likes killing them, but it has worked. Hardly any feral cats left, traps out all the time, low cost of disposal, tame ones are adopted out, others are humanely euthanized at the local SPCA, which supports our efforts.
jerrynog 1 year ago
Love your comment, I have resued 160 cats and have a sanctuary because people want to shoot feral cats and poison them, its sickening. Those who feed colonies should have all cats in there colony spayed and nuetured. and yes feral cats can become tamed, I have turned 30 so far.
toastyjr24 1 year ago
Unfortunately, TNR is not a viable alternative because it doesn't actually reduce cat populations, or address the inhumanity of abandoning cats to be hit by cars, killed by predators, or to die a horrible prolonged death from disease or infection.
abcbirds 1 year ago
@abcbirds I agree that the inhumanity of abandoning cats isn't addressed, but TNR is much more humane than simply killing the cats. Yes, nature will take its course & cats will be taken by predators; others will die of age or illness. The colony that's properly managed will have diseased cats caught & removed. The colony will gradually shrink, & because they're fed regularly their impact on wildlife will be minimal.
Murphygrif 1 year ago
@abcbirds Totally agree. The stats don't support TNR.
bkrbkrl 1 year ago
TNR does NOT work at all. My hometown tried it and it really didn't do anything except stabilize the feral colony and let it grow at a steady pace, because no matter what, you can never catch every fertile cat and fix it. TNR might work in some communities, but I think for the suburban/urban communities it is useless.
jerrynog 1 year ago
TNR works - and that has been proven. If it hasn't in your community it most probably is based on lack of patience. Of course it needs time to wait to get the whole procedure work!
Generally speaking: It's not a cat problem the problem is based on human stupidity and lack of insight regarding human's responsibility towards their pets.
biestie 1 year ago
@biestie
No, it hasn't. There are studies on both sides that are legitimately done, so don't try to make it seem as if the debate is over. It has little to do with human ignorance regarding pets. These are not po wittle kitties being dumped by evil people. They are a wild, invasive species many generations over killing off native animal populations for food and sport. TNR might be able to slow a colony's growth, but the cats live decades and still kill too many native animals.
jerrynog 1 year ago
Little to do with human ignorance?the domesticated free roaming cats and feral cats serious issues we have are because of human ignorance, I will say why when we have no laws holding people accountable for there actions it causes anarchy within the communitys,This is a health and safety issue for wildlife,cats,and human's.We would not have feral/domesticated cat issues if we have laws holding owners accountable.
jccross316 1 year ago
@jccross316 so help pass laws in your community dealing with cat owners. Meanwhile, there are already self-perpetuating feral colonies out there long independent of human control. TNRing them does nothing but guarantee that they can either continue killing wildlife, get hit by cars, die of horrible diseases, or be general pests. TNR is inhumane to me.
jerrynog 1 year ago
i have personally rescued a baby bird on the verge of being pounced on by a cat. the bird's parents were sqwaking away but can't do anything. I say SHOOT these stupid cats! the only good cat is a dead one. plus there are too many of these smelly useless cats around. I think we should conduct a mass rounding up and culling of cats! I have no qualms about poisoning or hurting a cat. they're really stupid hateful things. just kill them!!!
bibi14930 1 year ago
@bibi14930
Cats also kill mice and rats, and thats a good thing. Don't worry about the bird population. I'd worry more about the mouse and rat population.
Long live the cat.
reelable 1 year ago
A highly uneducated solution. Humans have caused the overpopulation of cats through laziness. Pure laziness and selfishness on the part of the humans. I have owned several cats and currently own a fierce hunter. Yes, he has caught and killed a few birds, about three a year, maximum, and we are in an area highly populated by birds, even feeding them in our garden, which he frequents daily. Killing all cats... well, suggest we kill all birds? Then there's no cats killing birds either :). Like it?
muchdipstick 1 year ago
If someone would develop an oral sterilization product that would reduce the feral cat population.
jereamygrayrose 1 year ago
TNR works to reduce the feral cat population. The problem is, there are not enough of us doing it. If more people helped in TNR efforts (instead of whining about how it doesn't work) the feral cat population would dwindle.
rrrina 1 year ago 4
Dear Rrrina,
If you have evidence that TNR is reducing cat populations we would be very interested in seeing it. The studies we've see show it doesn't work to reduce feral cat populations, and that colonies remain stable or grow larger over time, causing terrible carnage to other wildlife.
abcbirds 1 year ago 2
abcbirds, to my knowledge, no one has done a formal study. From my experience, and that of my collegues, we SEE the colonies diminishing once we do TNR. I'd be curious to know what evidence you have that "colonies remain stable or grow larger over time."
By the way, I am also a licensed wildlife rehabilitator, and a VEGAN, concerned about ALL animals. In all the years I have been doing TNR, I have not seen evidence of any of the cats in my colony killing a bird.
rrrina 1 year ago
Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence at all and it doesn't say anything about the long term effects of TNR and how many cats are killing birds. The other problem is that cat feeding groups won't even give scientists access to the feral colonies so that they cannot be studied effectively.
totaljudy 1 year ago
I don't believe "cat feeding groups won't give access to scientists access." That doesn't even make sense. No "scientist" has ever approached me or any TNR person I know with an interest in studying the feral colonies.
rrrina 1 year ago
@abcbirds
"The research is very clear that if you remove and euthanize feral cats, more cats move in and go into reproductive overdrive, so you're just exacerbating the problem by euthanizing them. If you spay and neuter, you reduce the population, and it's actually a more effective and humane solution for neighborhoods." - Humane League President and CEO, Joan Brown
taurinecat 1 year ago
@taurinecat The exact same thing happens with TNR. Populations have actually been known to increase after TNR (go to abcbirds dot org, click on Cats Indoors campaign, click on Cat Colonies and TNR, click on "Critical Assessment of Claims Regarding Management of Feral Cats by Trap-Neuter-Return")
BirdingCristina 1 month ago
@abcbirds And the "studies" that ABC is referring to in its oh-so-authoritative pronouncements on this topic have been thoroughly debunked. It's all junk science supported by inflammatory language (i.e., "carnage") as part of their PR campaign.
southerner66 1 year ago
@abcbirds
I would like to see those studies.
In Newburyport,Massachusetts there were about 300 cats 1992
2007 there was 6 cats.
In Norrköping 2005 about 50 cats, 2010 there are 5 cats.
In some smaller colonies there are no cats left.
There are people who feeds both birds and cats in parks ,some for 20 years,and they have seen the decline followed a park landscaping programme which had removed undergrowth needed by birds for food and habitat.
jofichess 1 year ago
Comment removed
southerner66 1 year ago
@abcbirds You cite "the studies we've seen." So, which studies are those? In which top-tier, peer-reviewed scientific journals have they been published? And, yes, I know the difference between "popular science" magazines and serious academic journals.
Based on the research I've done on your organization, the only thing you've "studied" is how to choose numbers that sound impressive to a gullible audience.
southerner66 1 year ago
Comment removed
papyri379 11 months ago
@abcbirds
There are already 4 million cats and dogs that die in shelters, using our tax money to pay for their deaths, TN & find a good home won't work either. From the video we have learned TNR can work, over time, with a lot of effort from concerned individuals. Why don't you get involved, hands on?
papyri379 11 months ago
@abcbirds Those of us who have checked the "studies you've seen" have found that they rely on numbers grabbed from thin air--made up by "scientists" too lazy to engage in real research. Your strategy is to take phony science and repeat it over and over again until people think it's true, a strategy that bird enthusiast organizations have been employing for at least a hundred years.
southerner66 10 months ago
@abcbirds If you do TNR to a cat. The cat can't reproduce. If you do it to many cats, they can't reproduce. So how do colonies that can't reproduce grow over time ? If they grow, it's not because of direct reproduction, but because abandoned cats from irresponsible owners join in. So you can't blame TNR. The problem lies with not enough people doing it and not taking full responsibility of their pets.
sagifshahab 9 months ago 4
@abcbirds My mother helps with a TNR program on the campus of the University of Florida. they have not trapped an unaltered cat or had any new kittens born in their colony in years since staring the program I think 7 years ago. It does take dedication and it does take a few years and all the kittens that were caught were not returned they were domesticated and adopted to home after being sterilized. I am a cat owner and bird lover too. but trapping and killing cats is not acceptable either.
paintmyworld1 3 weeks ago
@abcbirds When you do TNR .They cannot have kittens.So preventing more of them.
MegaSonicKing 1 week ago
My heart bleeds for those poor birdwatchers who have been inconvenienced by cats. They're also saying TNR doesn't work because people are dropping off their cats into colonies? That's a different problem, that has nothing to do with TNR (except that if the colony wasn't sterile because of TNR, drop-offs would be creating a far larger problem!!) "Relocate" just moves the problem somewhere else. It's not a solution, unless they're really talking about relocating the cats to the landfill, dead.
planesNtrains1 2 years ago
shelters that do euthanasia mostly cart
the bodys to back of the building and cremate thim in a retort furnace
hdyudu 2 years ago
We people can surely be ashamed of our treatment of both cats and birds. The enormity of the problem is staggering. I could never end the life of a healthy animal. "Relocation" sounds like a euphimism for euthanasia. We need a grass roots effort to build enclosed shelters for feral/abandoned cats. Could ABC and ACA agree to publicize and share information to communities about building/supporting such places? Maybe each of us could lobby at the local level for a co-op project in our area.
kshfki 2 years ago
a authert sloution is to catch and fine the heck out of the tweedle dums that are dumping new cats out in diches or in the park thare lazyness is costing our songbird population and it not fare for the
cats also
hdyudu 2 years ago
The number one killer of birds are not the cats but HABITAT LOSS ergo, HUMANS.
TNR ensures that the cat population is controlled as opposed to leaving them to breed out in the wild. When feral cats are fixed, their population DECLINES over time.
Do your research before spreading misinformation like this.
kawaiianme 2 years ago
But fixing them doesn't prevent them from killing birds.
Cat owners should be required to keep their animals on their property, just like dog, reptile and exotic pet owners are expected to.
If these were lizards instead of cats, I wonder how many people would want to maintain feral colonies of them versus just killing them.
Fleefles 2 years ago
cont - species commensal with humans coexist. We collectively can create bird micro habitats in our backyards if we simply QUIT MOWING THE LAWN and plant native species. Those McMansions subdivisions are far more damaging than ferals. I no longer cut the grass and I have many birds and small mammals. We humans are using the feral cat as an easy scapegoat for our irresponsible mishandling of habitat. If we create more habitat, we will have more songbirds. Til then spay/neuter!
Larsensrock 2 years ago
We need to do both. Create/rehab/restore more habitat and control the cat population TNR isn't going to cut it.
totaljudy 1 year ago
Being both a cat lover and active in cat rescue, as well as a member of Audubon, I realize that feral cats impact songbird populations. Bird and cat people have to work together to humanely reduce feral cat populations. TNR is one option; taming feral kittens and strays is another. While very sick cats should be euthanized, a massive feral cat killing or hunting is not something that most people would tolerate. In order to reduce feral cats, we have to reduce edge habitat and areas where
Larsensrock 2 years ago
We've turned cats into an invasive species because ignorant, lazy people will not have their cats neutered and will not keep them inside the house where they can do no harm. People who do not have the funds to have their cats spayed should NOT have the cats as pets.
susan987654 2 years ago 5
@susan987654 And then the American Bird Conservancy (whose youtube page this is) sues in Los Angeles to put an end to a City-sponsored spay/neuter program.
southerner66 1 year ago
Cats aren't part of nature they were introduced by humans so birds have little defense against them. With habitat loss, pesticides, hunting, weather, and numerous other things against wildlife why not add cats?
swervene7 2 years ago
Humans are a part of nature too. I'm sure every animal on this continent wasn't here since the beginning of time. How long does an animal have to live in an area before its considered native? .
Fleefles 2 years ago
I'm only ok if a cat kills a bird for food, but when cats do it for fun or something, that's what I hate... but cats will be cats, especially wild ones.
NukeTheMongoose 2 years ago
I agree with you Nuke - but I hate to see any animal die regardless. Some cats hunt out of instinct, not for fun - but some cats do kill to eat as well.
dawnkua 2 years ago
I don't think ANYONE likes it when a bird dies - it doesn't make it better to me if the bird is killed by another bird.
In fact, if people want to see LESS cats out there, then the solution is not to stop TNR, which helps reduce the number of feral cats.
dawnkua 2 years ago 2
I HATE to see birds die too, especially killed by cats and falcons. I have 13 birds of my own that I love dearly. I hate any animal dying... cows, chickens, pigs, fish, bugs etc.
But you can't go out stopping every single animal out there... I'm cool as long as they eat the animal they killed, though one species of animal that I would love to stop killing for food are humans. (sorry if that sounds a little weird, I don't know how to exactly word it)
NukeTheMongoose 2 years ago
I understand what you're saying - and I have to say I agree :)
dawnkua 2 years ago
I wish all animals got along though~ I'd be nice to see cats purring with birds, lions playing with hyenas, etc.
NukeTheMongoose 2 years ago
My Mom used to have birds and cats that ate out of bowls side by side in the kitchen. She has a photo somewhere.
dawnkua 2 years ago
cats are not part of nature though I have seen coyotes remove cats from cat colonies.
swervene7 2 years ago
You're right, because cats were brought here. So mostly blame humans... humans are responsible for many many bad things on this earth.
But still, cats are natural hunters and stopping them won't be easy at all.
NukeTheMongoose 2 years ago
I DO believe TNR takes into account the big picture. Fewer cats born benefits everyone. I don't understand what you mean by making decisions based on how cats 'feel' - I don't know how they feel but I'm pretty sure they probably would not want to go through a surgical operation.
Also why assume all cats run around, torturing and killing birds? I just saw a feral cat in my yard, and it ignored the birds and vice versa. Most cats either are uninterested or can't catch birds.
dawnkua 2 years ago
TNR is not about 'releasing' cats into the community. These feral cats are not owned - and are as close to 'wild' as can be, if you define that as living in the wild. Many have never seen the inside of a home - nor have their forebears in generations. Sterilizing them helps to keep the cat population down.
As for OWNED cats, how does a fine against roaming help? Most responsible owners I know already keep their cats indoors. An irresponsible one faced with a fine, will just abandon the cat.
dawnkua 2 years ago
The problem is how do you enforce these laws? Many people (possibly especially people who like cats) want these irresponsible owners to be punished, but having worked with feral and strays, how easy do you think it is to catch these people in the act? As it is already illegal to dump these cats in most areas, people are not going to do it openly and it is almost impossible to find them.
If the law you are mentioning is to have cat licensing, again how would they be enforced?
dawnkua 2 years ago
There is a difference between a 'stray' cat and a 'feral' cat. A stray cat can be a lost or abandoned cat. A feral cat is the offspring of a stray (or the offspring of an offspring, etc) that no longer is a 'pet' - hence it has reverted to a state where it is no longer 'domesticated'. Who then would we hold responsible for these cats which may be generations removed from any 'owned' cat? Also, what would the fine be for? Abandonment? There are many areas that already have these laws in place.
dawnkua 2 years ago
Cats actually sleep an average of 18 hours a day, and are not necessarily nocturnal.
dawnkua 2 years ago
So if a bird is NOT protected by law then it's okay for the cat to kill it? The hawk for example killed a sparrow - so in that case it's ok?
dawnkua 2 years ago
Well the hawk killed the sparrow for food. Sometimes cats kill for fun or for practice...
NukeTheMongoose 2 years ago
I think I like the trap and neuter method better than the local farmers solution, open season on the kitty cats.
acco8675309 2 years ago
I totally disagree! I have fed a feral colony for over 5 years, and they have all been TNR'd. I had 20 to 30 cats then and am down to about 8 now. Before TNR one of my cats brought me birds regularly but after I have not recieved a bird since. SO DON'T TELL ME TNR DOESN'T WORK!!
As with any program, if you choose to only identify the programs that haven't worked then of course you are reporting one sided! And as for adopting them out...hello they are feral= wild. GET WITH THE PROGRAM!
catloverntx 2 years ago
Actually, I gave this a lot of thought. MOST PEOPLE do not like killing cats. They die when they go to the pound. SO the wont bother taking them & they breed. There are millions of strays/ferals in every State. These cats breed so fast animal control can't keep up with them. If you have trap-neuter-release more people will take these cats to the pound with the agreement they will not be killed, and returned. So instead of having BREEDING cats, you will have STERILE cats. The choice is yours.
WinterHaven 2 years ago
I mean the strays/ferals will be around regardless what you do. Wouldn't you rather have sterilized cats than breeding cats? Cats are highly elusive so animal control can't catch most of them, and they breed like cockroaches. I rather have sterile cats than fertile ones. So I now support TNR. I also support low cost/free spay/neuter programs. Look people don't want to kill cats so they won't be taking them to the pound. TNR will mean they WILL go to the pound and sterilized-no longer breeding.
WinterHaven 2 years ago 2
The vacuum effect is fine; just trap and get rid of the new cats that come around.
A lot easier and successful than trying to manage an ever growing colony.
warterra 2 years ago
The "vacume effect" has been proven to be ineffective in the US by USFW & USGS in 100+ cases. Only 10% of cats are TNR'd, rabies shots expire then cats are infected by new cats/ unvaccinated cats in colony. I'm alright with being top of the food chain. Making responsible decisions like euthenasia is our job.. Vegans feed sick cows shoveled to slaughter to thier colonies of cats; what is the difference b/w slaughter and ridding ourselves of pests...TNR made feral cats classify as pests
gefbird 2 years ago
Except these cats are highly elusive and they breed faster than animal control can catch them. One single pair of breeding cats will have over 2 million cats in 10 years.
WinterHaven 2 years ago
Look I don't like the "TNR" thing either, because outdoor cats live short miserable lives. However, most people are not going to be taking them to the pound because most NORMAL people do not like killing cats. Industrial pollution has more to do with the demise of birds than cats. I also know a lot of kids like getting BB guns and shoot birds for kicks because their parents say its okay to do.
WinterHaven 2 years ago
Thanks to critter cam technology I can prove a bird a day has been taken from my bird refuge thanks to abandoned/neglected cats dying of starvation, freezing and disease - Cat lovers? You people love nothing but your hypocricy. Come here and pick up the carcasses from coyote eating your felines and hearing the cats wail all night in pain from hunger. I will sue under Humane Law for ruining my property with your misguided, myopic and delusional crusade to allow cats to roam!
gefbird 2 years ago
And it still does not work, TNR does...all you are doing is killing the same amount of cats over and over. TNR will diminish the colony over time. Besides ferals are not the major reason for the decline. People are!!!
kathyk214 2 years ago
Without TNR more birds will die, so why are you fighting against something that will actually help.
kathyk214 2 years ago
To be 100% opposed to TNR unreasonable since it does work in some communities. The key to all of this is education. If people learn to take pet ownership and animal welfare seriously, they will not mistreat or dump their pets like garbage in the street. While the bird populations may be suffering, lets not forget that feral cats are a man made problem and they suffer greatly as well. We need to step up our efforts on a national level to curb the feral cat population.
ChasingSatanAway 2 years ago
Why are they blaming TNR for the fact that irresponsible people dump their pets in TNR colonies? What needs to happen is a combination of TNR in areas that are rural/suburban and pose less of a threat to animals and people, along with animal dumping fines and education about pet ownership. In cities, where strays face the greatest dangers and lowest quality of life, there should be more emphasis on adoption, along with stiff dumping penalties and education about pet ownership.
ChasingSatanAway 2 years ago
If an unowned cat lives an average of two years , they obviously have a very low quality of life and often suffer horrific deaths. How, then, is TNR more humane than euthanasia?
DowntownCanon 2 years ago
The TNR people are feelers and not thinkers. There is no benefit to returning a cat after trapping and neutering.
habyss 2 years ago
I watched the starlings and house sparrows take out the entire nesting colony of swallows at my parents. They pulled the eggs and young out the nest and pecked them to death to steal their nests. They're introduced species. What does ABCbirds plan to do about that? Relocate the billions of them back to the British Isles? They're ten times more destructive than feral cats on song bird populations.
vocaldemon 2 years ago 2
Actually, starlings & house sparrows are netted & euthanized in many critical areas and this is supported by most if not all birders & conservation organizations. The difference is that they harm only select cavity nesters while cats harm all species at much greater numbers.
pandion070707 2 years ago
why dont they tell us how to trap them
1234kostya 2 years ago
Why aren't any of the ferals in this video eartipped?
jawallable 2 years ago
WHY NOT JUST OPEN A HUNTING SEASON.
homersparents 2 years ago
I understand where ABCbirds is coming from, but they are speaking from a "not my problem" point of view. It's not as simple as saying, "oh let's just trap, spay/neuter/, and relocate/find homes for all these thousands of cats." Shelters are doing that every single day. That's what animal adoption IS.
Ferel cats aren't going to just disappear. At least TNR takes the step to ensure that the inevitable population of ferel cats are not reproducing. Doesn't that mean anything to these people?
gmt903 2 years ago 3
They need to be euthanized.
pandion070707 2 years ago
indeed you can not keep feral cats thay are too much of a danger for that
hdyudu 2 years ago
WOW!
HawgNSonsTV2 2 years ago
that is just in one area where this video was recorded. you know what until we humans are gone there will be feral, stray and friendlies outside. blame the humans for starting the problem I trap about 1000 cats per year. this doesnt even begin to count the kittens i try to take out of the site I tnr. unfortunately you can't give the PINK stuff to all the cats these people want killed. so you know what just TNR and try and SOLVE the problem than bitch about it
MsHammerhead 2 years ago
MsHammerhead - I don't know who 'these people' are you refer to but nowhere in the video is there any mention killing cats. REMOVAL of cats from the outdoors was the solution given. Domestic cats are NOT in any way part of North America's natural ecosystems. Yes, humans have and will continue to be ultimately responsible for the problem and we will go nowhere fast if we cannot agree on upon solutions. Accusations of 'these people' solely wanting to kill cats is a bad start.
Davidsonsond 2 years ago
where else do you plan to take the feral cats? sanctuaries? relocate them. not enough of either. so the only other options is to kill them. while "this" video did not say to have them killed I hear IT all the time. So I am speaking from experience that most people really do want to kill the cats. As for the friendlies well not enough homes for them either. Yes I know cats ARE not apart of the ecosystem. DUH. Pestisides and destruction of habitat are worse for birds.
MsHammerhead 2 years ago
Sanctuaries exist and more need to be created. Many TNR programs have adopted out cats and, yes, some have even completely removed their feral colonies. I don't believe, however, that "most people" want to kill cats. Check the Alley Cat Allies site for their national poll result. While habitat loss is one of many problems for bird populations and ABC & other groups continually fight against, cats in those remaining habitat fragments are an ecological disaster. Cats Indoors.
Davidsonsond 2 years ago
really so is going to pay for these places. i would rather pay for health care for humans. as it is we can't find enough volunteers to help take care of the sancturary. ACA well i am not a fan of them so don't really care what they say. again i am actually speaking from experience HERE. yes agreed cats indoors again talk to the asshole who dumps their UNALTERED cat and it has kittens. most laws cant and dont prosecute for that
MsHammerhead 2 years ago
Work to change the laws to prosecute dumpers. Fight to get money to pay for sanctuaries. The bird groups have had and continue to fight to protect, it's not any easier for them (try dealing with migratory birds that spend their lives moving between Canada and Argentina). Unfounded accusations from both sides just make things worse and there absolutely needs to be more efforts to find solutions. There are enough wars already in the world
Davidsonsond 2 years ago
I agree with many of your points but I still believe TNR is beneficial in some communities. It's a positive step to take while we wait for more sanctuaries to be built and for the laws to be changed to prosecute animal dumpers. Animal shelters around the country are overwhelmed and relocation of all those cats is not realistic--there are millions of feral cats in New York City alone! Thank you for posting serious comments. People who have posted cruel and idiotic statements only hinder progress.
ChasingSatanAway 2 years ago
Studies show that cats are NOT responsible for killing many birds. In fact they have a preference toward rodents and lizards instead. And even if that were so, this is a bliant case of animal bias. Bird lovers are bias toward wild birds and want to see the cats killed, cat lovers can't stand to see feral cats "suffering" and being eaten by coyotes. But both parties fail to understand that who stays and who goes is up to nature and Evolution, not man.
AlienDragon 2 years ago
AlienDragon - please state your sources supporting your first and second claim. As for nature and evolution, the domestic cat is not a species native to the Americas and its impact on local wildlife is anything but natural. Cats have and continue to cause extinctions of entire SPECIES of birds around the world. As for coyotes eating cats and accusations that bird lovers promote killing cats, I recommend re-watching the video at ~ 8:00
Davidsonsond 2 years ago
I agree. I live in the city (Houston) and everytime I walk my dogs offleash (Pit Bull, Doberman), people give me such crap about how irresponsible I am and how my dogs chase after their cats. My dogs kill an average of 1 cat a week. And in my opinion, I agree with "Nature's Course". My dogs are roaming free and so are their cats, whatever happens happens.
sehoujay 2 years ago
If you keep doing that, your dogs could harm a person and then they would be taken away from you and possibly put down. Feral cats are a man made problem and letting your dogs chase after them is not allowing nature to run its course--it's stupid and barbaric, and your dogs could end up getting injured in the process. Please be a responsible pet owner and stop walking your dogs without a leash--it's the law.
ChasingSatanAway 2 years ago 3
Trap/neuter/release programs cause a gradual decline in feral cat colonies. Though there may at first be a decrease in the birds, later they will repopulate. Not all the birds will die.
Prey and Predator. This is life. Get over it. Some birds are gonna die, but without spay neuter so will a ton of cats.
I hate to see these kind of things because I am part of TNR programs and these people make it difficult to get our work done.
drbarb1184 2 years ago
What poppycock and nonsense! Yes I admit that cats kill birds, but cats are not wholely responsible for decimating the songbird population. If they do not want TNR, and only propose euthanaisa of cats, then that is cruel. Why not euthanize all birds to prevent thier suffering? I have done TNR in many areas
katsonya 2 years ago
The indoor/outdoor and feral cat population on my little block
in Chestnut Hill in Philadelphia Pa has exploded in recent years. Chipmunks have disappeared altogether and our song
bird population is both stressed and dwindling. I removed our bird feeders three years ago to protect my emotional health from the sight of so much slaughter. The offending
neighbors cannot be reasoned with, of course. One, an avid bird watcher, is an activist TNR. Realize the dilemmas. Need creative advice.
tamiaspeg 2 years ago
Trap/Neuter/Return is designed to reduce cat populations, not eliminate them entirely and the method has been proven to be more effective in reducing numbers than trap and remove. Cats do kill some birds, however they are not responsible for destroying the native songbird population....the study many bird advocates cite as proof for cats killing millions of songbirds wasn't, in fact, a study at all rather a PROPOSAL for a study which was never funded. The authors themselves discredit the claim.
ChrisClay271 2 years ago
There was a study done by Andersen showing that euthanasia is more effective. The 'proposal' you mention is a red herring - there are plenty of studies showing the impact cats have on wildlife, including Hawkins et al and Lepczyk et al.
nothingbettertodonow 2 years ago
I think that these feral cats should be controlled with humane euthanasia or hunting seasons like other exotic or feral animal populations. It would be the most cost effective way to help control feral cats.
fourrunnin78 2 years ago
thats the dumbest thing i've heard!! Hunt the cats?? Ok a feral cat (wild housecat basically) and a housecat look pretty much the same!! How the hell are you gonna feel when someone comes to you because you shot someone's beloved pet.Seriously.I think this is a good idea to keep the wild ones from breeding..just remember people are still gonna be irresposible and be dropn off cats as well as any other kind of animal that they were dumb enough to get.
frostie191 2 years ago
and I'm willing to be my life that humans are more to blame for the birds deaths than cats are from the pollution and overpopulation and edging them out of their trees by killing them I say TNR the humans there are wayyy to many of them
HimeNoKuri 2 years ago 2
haha! TNR the humans?!?! to keep them from breeding..that's great
frostie191 2 years ago
A lot of people are so selfish!!! ''I want a cat!'' ''I do not want to take responsibility''! ''I need money so I am going to get rid of the cat''....
THINK BEFORE YOU WANT TO LOOK AFTER AN ANIMAL!!!!
sarcophyllus 2 years ago 7
This is why I wish there was a ton of red tape and extra money people should pay before being allowed to have a domestic animal. Almost anyone with enough money and okay credit can walk right into a pet store without ANY knowledge or experience and buy a cat! Or people can get kittens for FREE without having to do any paperwork! That is ridiculous.
merkat82 2 years ago 2
DID YOU KNOW Alley Cat Allies is AGAINST spay/neutering legislation? Alley Cat Allies perpetuates animal cruelty. TNR not only breeding more stray cats-but the fact that the cats are HOMELESS - they die slowly of intestinal worms and countless fleas until anemic, predation, human cruelty; people poison them with antifreeze DELIBERATLY or cats lick the leaking antifreeze under cars-I seen that myself in a parking lot. I had to chase it away. Only 1/4 teaspoon will kill the cat with great agony.
WinterHaven 2 years ago
The majority of cats that are TNR'ed are FERAL. They are NOT adoptable. They also show a clip from a TNR project that reduced their cat population from 2000 to 500 in 15 years! That's incredibly successful, but instead they claim it is "ineffective" because it failed at "ELIMINATING the problem". Nobody is claiming that TNR will ELIMINATE stray cats, but it clearly has GREATLY REDUCED the population. I could go on and on. This video is just ridiculous.
betsyrosalen 2 years ago
For years Alley Cat Allies claimed that TNR did eliminate the colonies - some groups still do. Plenty of these colonies have much more than true feral cats - even friendlies get put back some times when a home cannot be found.
nothingbettertodonow 2 years ago
This video is clearly biased and misinformed. Nobody claims that TNR is perfect, but it is better than the alternatives. The idea that we can change "return" to "remove" is absurd! Where are we going to put al these cats? Who is going to fund the sanctuaries? Aren't they aware that the shelters are already overflowing with cats that are adoptable and that millions are EUTHANIZED each year because there aren't enough homes for them?
betsyrosalen 2 years ago
And do you expect to TNR MILLIONS of cats?
nothingbettertodonow 2 years ago
Do you have some evidence to back up your statement that the video is misinformed? As an ecologist, I am not willing to sacrifice our native small mammals and birds to feral cats. Since humans obviously won't take responsibility for their pets by spaying and neutering them, they should probably be euthanized. It's sad, but the native wildlife has enough pressures without cat predation--we caused the problem, we need to deal with it.
scrubjay93 2 years ago 3
How about educating PEOPLE not to abandon cats! The cat is not at fault.
sallynew55 2 years ago
Of course the cat is NOT to blame. People are at fault - those who let their pet cats roam, those who dump cats, and those who release them to the wild where they do not belong through TNR! Education is key, but we are not going to get people to change their behavior if we condone outdoor cat colonies.
nothingbettertodonow 2 years ago
I have seen the problem of people not spaying and neutering their pets for almost 50 years now--there will always be people who aren't responsible for their pets and who dump them as soon as they get tired of them. Since education hasn't worked, something else must be done. Of course it isn't the cat's fault, but we can't sit back and watch our native songbird populations be destroyed either.
scrubjay93 2 years ago 3
Too many cats. They have also killed off the native snake population.
samdon815 2 years ago
Vermin mommies really. I don't think so. Humans did this to the cats. So we have to deal with it. Humans just dump their cats and the cats are fixed well there is your problem. Prosecute them!!! People don't want to take their cats to the shelters to be killed. POLLUTION and the loss of HABITAT are what is killing the birds. Fertilizers on golf courses and YOUR YARDS. run off into the water. you cat leash cats. go after the people you don't spay and neutor
MsHammerhead 2 years ago
It is true that habitat destruction is the number one problem for wildlife. However, cats are killing far more songbirds and other native wildlife than pesticides. Cats are second only to collisions with buildings for human-caused mortality of birds when you take out habitat destruction. I'd like to see cats controlled like dogs are. They carry disease and are a threat to native wildlife. It's not just the feral cats that are a problem, it's all outdoor cats.
caracara74 2 years ago
wendelin1 - I don't understand your argument. If wildlife and birds are the ones carrying the disease, then are you saying birds should be killed? Avian flu doesn't need a cat to be transmitted to people.
ariel151 2 years ago
TNR does not violate leash laws - these cats aren't owned, they are feral cats. Caregivers are helping to manage an existing problem - they're not the ones abandoning the cats in the first place.
As for the comment on Alley Cat Allies, they do not support spay/neuter mandatory laws because in the jurisdictions they have been tried out in they don't work. Most people do not neuter because they can't afford it. Levying a fine on these people will not work. Instead, make spay/neuter cheaper.
ariel151 2 years ago
Cats free to roam and eat diseased rodents , birds etc can carry over thirty fatal diseases which are transmitted to humans including rabies. Dangerous threat to the public health and a four legged holocaust on wildlife. First fatality will bring tombstone legislation to end this insanity.These whacked out "Vermin Mommies" should get library cards and try reading or doing something constructive.
wendelin1 2 years ago
You stupid ignorant woman...YOU should read and find the only cases of rabies for two ywars in PA are from your precious hair balls, and toxoplasmosis; check out the CDC info on that - or can you research
gefbird 2 years ago
The economy is bad so people will be dumping their cats on the streets especially these cat compounds thinking someone will take care of them. TNR is BAD NEWS!!!
AgainstCruelty1 2 years ago
Did you know Alley Cat Allies is AGAINST spay/neuter legislation? If people did what they were supposed to do-these laws would not affect them. So by their own admission, they are cat breeders.
AgainstCruelty1 2 years ago
YEAH AND I'm sure they know which ones got a rabies vaccination and new one every year. These cats only get a one time dose of rabies vaccination their whole lifetime.
AgainstCruelty1 2 years ago
Why do you think the coyote population is growing? They have lots of CAT MEAT to eat! TNR cats become snacks for coyotes, and targets of human cruelty as well.
AgainstCruelty1 2 years ago 2
TNR also violates leash laws and is guilty of pet abandonment-as soon as you capture that cat-it is YOUR cat. YOUR responsibility-THESE ARE DOMESTIC CATS. THEY DO NOT BELONG OUTDOORS.
AgainstCruelty1 2 years ago
I agree with kathydoucette. The numbers tossed around are just estimates.
I also have several bird feeders up and I've never seen a bird killed by a cat.
People often forget that cats can be very clumsy and birds a lot smarter than you think.
I also fail to understand : why is is okay to kill (ie 'euthanise') a cat, but not okay when a bird is killed? It is upsetting when I see a hawk in my tree checking out my songbirds, but no one seems to think we ought to be killing hawks.
ariel151 2 years ago
One reason that you don't see birds killed by a cat is they're nocturnal. You don't see dead birdsin the yard because cats take the birds off to tall grass or shrubs to eat the birds.
freddyfast9 2 years ago
Cats are not necessarily nocturnal - they're mostly active during the day. Clearly birds are active during the day, and if the cats are nocturnal, how are they killing the birds?
dawnkua 2 years ago
Putting feral cats down reduces the # of cats and there's no shortage of feral cats but some species of songbird are in danger that's the difference.
freddyfast9 2 years ago
If it is a species of songbird NOT in danger, then it's okay to have it killed? That doesn't make any sense either. I'm sure you like animals - and wouldn't want to kill ANY of them. If we start putting value judgments on which animal is more rare - than does that mean certain birds 'deserve' to die if they start crowding out other birds? Or that hawks 'deserve' to die if they kill a native songbird that is in 'danger'?
What poses the most threat to birds are us - people - not cats.
dawnkua 2 years ago
Cat owners and feral cat caretakers who claim their animals do not prey on birds and other species are either uninformed, are in denial, or are simply being dishonest. Miriad studies have proven that cats are instinctive and effective predators, and that their predation instinct is decoupled from their hunger. Cats kill other animals because they are programmed to do so. To maintain cats outdoors is inhumane to the cats themselves and to the animals on which they prey.
pamelajohatley 2 years ago
I moved into a new house and set up feeders and installed a solar bird bath heater/fountain, plenty of nest boxes and roost boxes. I didn't realize is that my neighbor had 30 feral cats but his house is overgrown with shrubs but I started seeing feathers in my shrubs and behind my garage with bird bones.
I ended up trapping every single one of them and taking them in to the animal shelter euthenization.
freddyfast9 2 years ago 2