Stake Patriarchs charging a dollar for 'Blessings' ( ie Fortune Telling Bullshit LDS style). lol
Bishops getting paid from Tithing in the Past? lol
hahahha Mormons are a joke and quite frankly they deserve all the stick they get for being so stiffnecked and stupid because of a cult. Granted those born into it are screwed with brainwashing and have little choice. A few dumb or mentally ill convert when adults.
By the way, the historical information about paid bishops/stake presidents/patriarchs was really interesting. I shall be passing that information on at the first opportunity.
EJ: The apostles being members of boards is actually evidence of NOT paying the LDS clergy (because they are not being paid for their church work) the same way that a bishop keeps his fulltime job while serving as a bishop. UNLESS of course the Church is using its influence to place them in these positions. I don't doubt it is so, given some of the mismatches between careers and directorships you listed, but I would be very interested to know if there is sure knowledge of such.
@rivenrock Some 'General Authorities' actually do get paid 'Stipends' and YES I believe that serving as GA's does influence the choice of directorships on numerous church companies. LDS members are usually proud to assert about No Paid Clergy but they don't Know the real deal. For goodness sake the History they are taught is Fabricated (White washed) why would the finance issue be any different and especially as accounts are kept secret from ordinary members and the public alike.
@ElderJoseph Oh I have zero doubt that the finances are completely corrupt. I just like to source hard evidence when I can, because talking to people about this stuff can get so inflammatory.
It is definitely true about the stipends. I actually remember a visiting GA making a joke once in a talk about how he was 'living on church welfare'. Plus I know I've seen a breakdown on the uses of tithing that included reference to the living expenses of GAs.
@rivenrock During one Elders Quorum session the class was being led to believe that GA's when they are called hand over their assets and everything to the church in some kind of Law of Concecration and total commitment to the 'Gospel'.
I was suspicious this lesson was another innacurate one and contacted the Mission President. He told me when GA's are called they give up regular full time employment only and instead serve the church and if they 'need' financial assistance they get it.
@rivenrock Jehovahs Witnesses also like to brag about No Paid Clergy much like the LDS do. However some JW's who knock a certain amount of Hours monthly receive a paid ' allowance' as Special PIoneers. In other words thats cult mumbo jumbo for being paid, much like 'Stipends for LDS leaders or even so called expenses as LDS GA's
If you are willing to try undertanding, go to mormon.org and you get a hold of missionaries who truly understand how to straighten out your confusion with the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
@1016hurricane LDS Missionaries are just Sales Representatives. Their sole purpose is to Sell LDS inc with no consideration at all to informing potential recruits about the real life behaviour of founder Joseph Smith. Many/most missionaries do not even know the real truth about Joseph Smith and really are totally unqualified to be discussing religion.
LDS is just another lying cult like the Jehovahs Witnesses. Both use deceipt and manipulation to recruit and maintain it's victims.
@ElderJoseph I can see that this is going no where. You can beleive what you want to believe, but until you have tried to live the principles of the gosple and see God promised blessings come into your life. you are always going to fight and persecute something that is good. I am my own person and no one has manipulated me to do anything. I choose for myself. Many people join the church every year using their own agency.
@ElderJoseph I can see that this is going no where. You can beleive what you want to believe, but until you have tried to live the principles of the gosple and see God promised blessings come into your life. you are always going to fight and persecute something that is good. I am my own person and no one has manipulated me to do anything. I choose for myself. Many people join the church every year using their own agency.
@ElderJoseph Missonaries are nineteen, and sure some aren't as doctrinaly smart as some who are scholars. But they ahve something so much more, the authority ti act in God's name(Priesthood). This is why the church is true and is a miracle that people join. The gosple is plain and simple. I am not a liar, and I have never lied about the gosple to anyone. God loves everyone. Thank you for listening, I hope you may one day be able to really truly understand the gosple without no judgements.
@1016hurricane LDS missionaries have no authority and no real Priesthood. They only think they have because someone has claimed such and that someone is Joesph Smith.
There are over 100n sects of Mormonsim and all claim they have the Priesthood. Its not a unique claim, even Jehovahs Witnesses knock on doors and claim thet Jesus Formally approved of them around 1914 as his only true organisation.
You mean well but you have alot to learn in life about religious crooks and crocks. lol
I will never regret being a member of this church, it has only blessed my life. God sent his son to die and suffer for us all, so that we may, through our decisions and actions make it back to his presence. When Jesus was on earth he was persecuted constantly for what he believed and taught. it's becuase people didn't understand. This is the same today. People will always persecute things they don't understand. Christs gosple can never be understood unless we try to live it. Are you willing to?
I served a mission for LDS Church in Taiwan speaking Mandarin Chinese. These people are the most wonderful and humble people I have ever met. I saw the Book of Mormon change there lives as they followed it teachings. I never once lied to them or forced them to be baptized they chose after they read with the intent to get an answer from their Heavenly Father if it was true. They did as did I recieve an answer that it was true. I loved their traditions(Buddhism and Taoism) which are all good.
@1016hurricane I know what missionaries teach investigators. I was a Golden Investigator myself. Missionaries do not know their own history properly and end up misleading potential recruyits.
Missionaries are pressured to baptise people and especially before they know exactly what they are getting involved with and with just minimal or ZERO facts and real LDS doctrines.
Thats why most soon dissappear ( go inactive?). It's just a time wasting excercise for the most part for corporate figures.
Some people have too much time to themselves! Go out and do something good instead of wasting time bashing The church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints. I am just so happy I belong to the only church with the fullness today! I am proud to be a mormon!
@999LDS, This is the thing, God has called a Prophet in the Latter-days who recieves revelation. The Doctrine of the Gosple never contradicts itself. Men may have faults, but God is perfect and so is his pirnciples and ordinances of His gosple. The Book of Mormon is the most correct book on earth today!
@1016hurricane You make me laugh. How can you say the BOM is the most correct book on earth, when it has more holes in it than Bonnie and Clyde's car.
It has 17th century texts, most of its words was copied by Smith from the KJV Bible, DNA proof the red skin people were from Asia and not the America's , Hill Cumorah dont exist, Kolob dont exist, Smith stuck his head in a hat, Smith was charged with glass looking, the list goes on.. and on.. and on... zzzzzz
@1016hurricane ... This is the thing, God put an end for the need of Prophets as He sent his Son Jesus Christ in fulfilment of the prophesies and to accomplish their purpose. It is stated clearly in the Bible, Hebrews 1:1-3 to give one example. I understand you believe what you believe, but I believe you have been mislead as Mormon doctrine falls outside Christian doctrine and belief system.
@1016hurricane You belong to the church with the fullness of exactly what? Extortion, deception, lying?
What is there so proud to be about being a member of a lying cult? Do something usefull yourself in life instead of spreading mormon Bullcrap. No one gives a damn that you are a cult member.
@ElderJoseph I don't want people to care about me. I want people to care about is understanding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I know the things I have read in the Bible and Book of Mormon are true. there is nothing wrong about being proud of something. But its the type of pride that causes us to be closed minded and want to bring others down that is wrong. I am a lover of all faiths that teach the Doctrine of Christ and LIVE it, as is God and his son Jesus Christ.
@1016hurricane We understand the LDS church very well. It lies, it deceives and is run by a bunch of liars. It's nothing much more than a corporate Dollar grabbing enterprise buying Real Estate and other business interests globally. The Christ bit is just to keep the recruits in.
My Video is about LDS Apostles being paid much like many other clergy. Nowadays they are paid Indirectly through church businesses.
Mormons only Love the church they aretaught to worship from birth.
Yes, and what he doesn't tell you is that most of the apostles of today, are very successful wealthy individuals that could spend the rest of their lives fishing if the wanted to, but instead they accept the call to serve. Brigham Yound donated all of his food during the trek to the Salt Lake Valley and was sick by the time he reached the place. I don't see myself wanting to do all the work these men do at their old age. I would prefer to retire confortably fairly unknown from the world.
All I want to say to everyone who is going along with this, read the Book Of Mormon, pray about it! It is truly life changing. And if you don't want to do that then go on google and look up Mormon articles of faith, and read those. Those are the 13 short main parts if our religion.
@lilmisscute1313 better still is to go on google and find out how Joseph SMith was sexually interfering with housemaids (while married ) and asking for others mens wives and sleeping with them (having 'maried' them despite them having husbands already). Then find out how he was targetting 14 year olds for the same treatment.
He got away with this because of your terribley bad suggestion to pray about his book rather than look at it academically and see what a fraud it is.
"Elder" Joseph, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has NO PAID CLERGY. We do have, however, a welfare program second to none. ALL of our leaders, from the lowly home teacher, all the way to the Prophet, have or had full time jobs, and "amass" wealth, and live off the fruit of our labours. The Apostles, who sit on boards of Church orother agencies, who EARN money by such labors, are no different than the bishop that is a Plumber or Executive. They are NOT paid for their ministry.
I think you mean 'We LDS do not have Paid Clergy anymore'?
However we do have loads of companies built up thanks to past members tithes and our GA's and Apostles are remunerated for there loyal service in this way instead. Amazing how much time Apostles and GA's have spare to sit on numerous boardships and run companies when I was led to believe they were full time Apostles receiving allowances only if needed and living off their own savings/retirement provisions.
@jhamana And what do you mean by 'scond to none' welfare program?
Here in the UK it's the British Taxpapyer who supports those who need welfare (including LDS members) and the ward used to want 10%of that Tax payer given welfare from them.
Yes the local ward did help members but would make sure they got as much from the British Taxpayer they could and paid the church Tithe FIRST.
LDS welfare is nowhere as good or generous as Taxpayer State welfare.
@jhamana Oh come on, If U think So Highly of Your profit and apostle, how they do their jobs out of the goodness of their hearts, Don't be so stupid to believe such bull crap!
Why do you call your self Elder Joseph? are you an ex-member of the LDS church?. I'm going to share these wise words (not mine)......WORLD PEACE, LIKE COMMUNITY PEACE, DOES NOT require that each man love his neighbor. IT REQUIRES "only" that they live together with MUTUAL TOLERANCE,submmiting their disputes to a JUST AND PEACEFUL SETTLEMENT........John F. Kennedy
@TrickTrolan Regret for what? Telling the Truth? What will happen to the LDS leaders who lied out of their back teeth and still do? What wil happen to those who taught me for two yeras that Joseph Smith was married to Emma when he was married to at least 33 OTHER women and including other mens wives?
Who according to the bible is the father of the lie? The LDS church lies to recruit people.
This is totally ridiiculous, get some research done.
@ElderJoseph TrickTrolan guy thumbs up his own comments. He commented to me before and had three thumbs up with 30 seconds on a video that doesn't have that many views lol i think he would have put six like he has done here but i caught him in his tracks
Another good reason to watch, "The LDS Awakening" here on youtube. It explains why a tornado went right through temple square back in 1999. The Mormons, like everyone else, needs sincere repentance.
@Ingle92protege The LDS church leaders even teach their followers that if they pau tithe they will be blessed with DOLLARS.
Elder Sheldon F. Child LDS conference April 2008
'I want to say to you, if you will be honest with the Lord, paying your tithing and keeping his commandments, he will not only bless you with the light and inspiration of his Holy Spirit, but you will be blessed in dollars and cents; you will be enabled to pay your debts, and the Lord '
Man! This is a mafia. These are "no show jobs," just like on The Sopranos. I have to wonder, if the RICO statute were used examine the operations of the Mormon Chuch, what dirty secrets would come out? I wonder how many Mormon apostles would wind up sleeping w/ the fishs in the Great Salt Lake. Do they have fish in the Great Salt Lake? They have brine shrimp, sleeping w/ the brine shrimp then.
The only problem is, you are working under the assumption that anything elmerjokeseph and shawn mcdouchebag is saying is factual. You've got to be smarter than to form any opinions based on what these king douchers have to say. O.J. said he was innocent, derrr, a moving pie hole with sounds coming out of it, does not equal facts. Don't be be duped by these two extra chromosome carrying sacks of dukey.
@mulletthater: Nice. Is this the state or Mormon apologetics, ridiculing down's syndrome cases? From what I've observed, nothing better comes out. A hint guy, when you start attacking the guy making the argument, you are admitting that the argument of your opponent us unassailable. If Brigham Young allowed bishops to receive pay then they were a paid clergy. If a paid clergy is corrupt, they Brigham Young is corrupt. Then the SLC Church is corrupt. Refute this or admit its truth.
Victor, attacking the author of these lies, does not infer an admission of anything. Your subjective opinion in no way represents fact or truth. I attack these guys, because they carefully present you with partial information, never in a reasonable context and people like you are way to eager to accept it without doing your own research. I have no responsibility to refute fraudulent claims and just find it comical that you think matters of faith can be tangibly proven or disproven.
@mulletthater: If they have presented partial information, then all you need to do is present the FULL information & show how they have distorted the truth. You do not do that. You simply accuse them of having done so & make no effort to do so. You then fill you posts w/ childish insults against their person. This is knonw as the fallacy of the ad homiinem attack. Resorting to such a distraction method is reasonable construed as proof you have no valid argument. If you do present IT!
I understand what you saying, but you have to realize, that I have been inside and out of these arguments a thousand times. And the ad homonym fallacy sounds nifty, but is not applicable to me. There are two critical things you must know about what I am doing. 1st, a serious response with counter documentation, immediately gives credibility to the original argument, which it does not merit. 2nd, the moment you refute a claim, they either restate or jump to another. typical anti-mo playbook.
Victor, you seem like a reasonable person. Let me explain how this plays out if I make a sincere effort to refute these lies. I know the born again/anti-mo playbook like the back of my hand. After I make a sincere effort with documentation, context and explanation, eldernutjob will say, "your a brainwashed cultist" and he'll move on immediately to the next lie. Round & round we go. Unreasonable people cannot be reasoned with, people who search only for falsehoods will only find falsehoods.
''I make a sincere effort with documentation, context and explanation''
You haven't documented anything at all.
Has there ever been any paid clergy in the LDS?
So Mormons should shut their big mouths claiming that No paid clergy is a sign of the true church when they have a history of paid clergy.
Smith lived off his church after his hat and stone treasure dig scam career ended in court. He didn't work. he declared in D&C that he should not work but be supported by his church.
Lest you be a hypocrite, I would like you to explain why you have an issue with my name calling, but you seem to be just fine with elmerjokeseph calling Thomas S. Monson an "ASSpostle, and call every Mormon a "Liar, Fraud, Cultist, Child Molester, brainwashed. He refers to our church leadership in the most vile ways imaginable. I would suggest that you check the self righteous judgements at the door til your ready to hold everyone accountable.
@mulletthater: Whatever rumors you might have heard to the contrary, I am not ElmerJokeseph's mother. & even if I was, He is presumably a legal (even if not a psychological) adult. You have made no effort to refute any of the evidence that Mormons pay their leaders. If this CES fund is real (as I've looked it up & found it to be so), if there are LDS corporations like Deseret Publishing & men like Monson are employed in them their whole lives, if the "Apostles" are paid; then the LDS IS lying.
Every member of the church, including leadership have professional lives. Many of which were very successful in the private sector. It is laughable that you think you have uncovered something that isn't well known and never hidden. The church operates hundreds of businesses, to produce goods that are distributed around the world. Being a church leader does not mean that they cannot be compensated for professional services. If it makes your nips hard to call that paid clergy, have at it.
@mulletthater: Why is it so difficult for Mormons to grasp simple logic. I guess it is b/c their whole religious system is based on subjective sentiment. "I really it, it was a 'burning in my bossom.'" The issue here is that Mormons raise the issue of an unpaid clergy. They make this a virtue when in fact they are paying their leaders. All clergy teach, you have a system of professional paid church teachers. People being groomed for leadership in the church are employed by chruch corporations.
''elmerjokeseph calling Thomas S. Monson an "ASSpostle,''
I'n not aware of calling Tommy M. an Asspostle. Its very unlikely that I have.
You probably mean Asspostles like Orson Pratt who taught falsehoods in The Seer and married 16 year old girls at age 57, and perhaps even McConkie who misled generations of members with his blacks are the less valiant teachings and further that they are denied the LDS priesthood in this mortality.
Derrrr, master of the obvious! How many different ways would like me to explain, as I have in nearly every post, I am not trying to refute this garbage. This amazing secret, you think you have uncovered is so monumentally irrelevant. My only purpose is to antagonize you and expose the biased, butt-hurt, someone offended me, agenda of yours. your hatred filled agenda disqualifies you from being a reliable of source of information. You can't be taken seriously.
@mulletthater: The secret is that the Mormon Church is lying about a paid clergy. They have a paid clergy, it is all inside nepotistic deal making. Monson has been living off the church all his life. That in itself is not the issue. The issue is the Mormons make out that other churches are false b/c of pay. Thus they are lying about a principle that they do not live up to. It is even worse as these lords of the church impose on local bishops to run things for them for nothing.
Were you aware that Satan has a heart tattoo with Shawn McCraney's name in the middle of it, on his left butt cheek. Shawn has some serious love waiting for him on the other side!
Liar and Fraud! The fact that you think your deluded perception in any way reflects reality is just laughable! Everything in this video is fraudulent lies and distortions. You work under the assumption that because you say it, it actually has validity. There are some who clearly see through your slight of hand. No matter how much you try to create the mystery, it's just another worn out trick. ElderJokeseph, what motivates you to lie so relentlessly?
I would wonder, if your tweaked perception resembled reality in anyway. If there were any truth in the dukey that exits your pie hole, then yes I would be very curious. But wondering about questions posed by a biased, lying douche just doesn't have the profound affect that you would like to think it does. I can bake a shit pie and tell you it is an apple pie, but no matter what you call it or how pretty you make it, it's still a shit pie.
LDS Mormon Church members often claim that a sign of the true church is No Paid Clergy.
In that case you were never a true church as clergy were paid as clergy even though recently its done through the back door via 'dirctorships' and business links with the $ cult.
Then I guess the Catholics win! If we use your definition of paid clergy and paid clergy disqualifies every church from being Christs one true church, then the only one left standing is the Catholic church. I guess I better go get my sprinkly baptism and take my first communion. By the way, there is no aspect of religion that can be 100% proven or disproven. These are matters of faith. It is such a waste trying to disprove that which cannot be proven.
This is a problem with cults like LDS and Jehovahs Witnesses who claim that God personally sanctioned eact respective organisation to be therestorers of some ultimate monopolised truth.
The truth is that both are a fraud, both claims are false and both use lies and deception to further there cult leaders cause.
Smith made up the Mormon tripe and ran it with an element of fear (of him) that he really was Gods Voice. He was just a Benny Hinn and worse.
I've even described the purpose of the video in my description quote:
"LDS Mormon Church members often claim that a sign of the true church is No Paid Clergy.
''Bishops and Stake Presidents (these days at least) are not paid and do serve out of a sense of duty and privilage, believing they have been called of God via the LDS Priesthood.''
However in the past they have been paid and LDS Apostles too.
Now there is the issue of multiple executive pay directorships for LDS Apostles.
elmerjokeseph, its like asking me to respond to a fifth grader calling me a poopyhead. No matter what the response is, you just go into rainman mode and start repeating the lies that you already stated. As though saying it again is going to make it less of a lie than it was the first time. I would take this all more seriously if any actual facts were stated, and if you were ever actually going to accomplish anything. For sane people, you are merely comic relief.
Oh yeah, great move, you worried about wether or not anyone in our Church is paid. So you actually have the gaul to put Shawn McCraney on to put forth his venom. Hah total fail. Shawn is no stranger to the buck. Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. Total fail
I did not confirm anything. I do not know if any one is paid or not. I have never met anyone in our leadership on our level that is paid. So as far as I know they are not.
The Apostles,Prophets and others at the higher level are paid and most likely have perks( business wise with their own companies) and even paid as directors on church Companies.
Its certain that past Apostles were paid and also the local leadership(as McCraney points out) , and now that the church keeps its accounts secret, even from members pay tithe, its difficult to know who gets what exactly.
Why do they keep the accounts secret from members?
I tell you what. I do not klnow wether Church clergy are paid or not, I simply don't care. It does not effect my life one way or another. If they are payed so what? Let me refer you to some other paid clergy, Robert Tilton, Benny Hinn, Joel Olsteen, Jim Bakker, and the list goes on and on. These are proclaimed leaders of the evangelical Church. Begging for you to send a "Love" offering. Always preaching to "Sow that seed!" and God will give you a cadillac.
So many of them do not teach the gospel of Jesus Christ as much as they teach the gospel of prosperity. Snake oil salesman. I have not heard you talk about any of them, why the singular interest in the LDS Church? Sounds like you simply have a chip on your shoulder. Brush off the chip and return to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. He knows you, and he knows your heart.
life must be easy when you're a born again. Elder Jokeseph is probably an atheist, but the born agains play this game. They act like they are the standard bearer of truth. And yet, because there is nothing even remotely close to a consensus on doctrine among evangelicals, they get to discard their own, like Hinn, Tilton etc whenever it is convenient, but the Mormons must be accountable for every off hand account scratched out in a journal from 200 yrs ago. The hypocracy is mind blowing!
This is a perfect example of how you package that pretty shit pie and sell it to others. NO Mormon ever claimed or taught or currently teaches that the Bible cannot be trusted. I know you know that, but you cleverly verbalize it in a way that satisfies your subjective biased agenda. This is a classic example of how you operate. Now, the ignorant people you target, immediately give credence to your words simply because you say it. People, don't eat the shit pie!
I apologize for exposing you and pulling the vail away from your magic show. I can understand you wanting me off of your channel. Making yourself seem credible is much easier to do in a room full of coolaid drinkers, that take everything you say at face value. I know it drives you nuts that I don't take your claims seriously. Someone like you that thinks they can marginalize 13million people by calling them a cult and is deluded into thinking you can make a difference is just laughable.
Let me marginalize your 13 m. members against Southern Baptists. They win!
Have you been warming up to renew your temple reccomend? You seem to be doing a good job protecting Joseph Smiths buffoonery along with your spirit brother Satans language. Now go lie to your bishop worthy boy.
I agree with you about all those evangelical leaders asking for money and living in glory mammon.
they are frauds and its very sad that people are taken it by it all.
But the LDS claim no one is paid and members claim that a sign of the true church is No Paid Clergy and thats not case with the LDS leaders ( especially historically). They were being remunerated in one way or another and likely still are. They should be more transparent about it all.
Shawn McDoucheyBoy was referencing out of context data from the 1840's. There really is no end to lengths you will go to, to lie and serve your master, Satan, is there? Aren't you thrilled, that the church supposedly keeps its accounts sercret? That leaves you with the ability to do what you do best! fill in the blanks with your fabrications of the feable mind. Cause, apparently the way this works is, you just say stuff, and expect everyone to believe you. So, babble on my retarded friend.
Are not members intelligent enough to be told how church expenditure is allocated?
Well members are the douchebags it seems. LDS leaders believe it Ok to lie and Deceive its members if it furthers the purpose of the said Cult.
Smith lied to his followers all his life while he screwed the women and made up some kind of celestial sex excuse forced on him by some Mormonic God with an eternal erection.
I know the concept is hard to understand for a born again pastor, who steals from the poor and makes no attempt to be self sufficient. The fact that LDS leaders had professional lives before and during their church service proves nothing more than their willingness to continue to be self sufficient. Being paid for professional services is in no way related to being paid by your church or congregation. Born agains favor the reverse Robin Hood treatment i guess.
Joseph Smith did not work and lived offf his followers.
Got himself a house built
D&C 41 : 7 And again, it is meet that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., should have a house built, in which to live and translate.
food and rainment too and whatever else he needs !
D&C 43:13 And again, I say unto you, that if ye desire the mysteries of the kingdom, provide for him food and raiment, and whatsoever thing he needeth to accomplish the work wherewith I have commanded him;
Smith claimed he got revelation that he should NOT need to work. can't you see how his revelations were very handy for him. He made them up as he went along and his stupid recruits feel for them. hahah
D&C 24: 9 And in temporal labors thou shalt not have strength, for this is not thy calling. Attend to thy calling and thou shalt have wherewith to magnify thine office, and to expound all scriptures, and continue in laying on of the hands and confirming the churches.
ElderJOKESEPH, you silly little man. You are dealing with very specific circumstances 200 F-ing years ago. I realize that this is how your deception works. Every piece of evidence I have ever seen you bring forward has the same pattern. You want to apply decisions made 200 years ago, applicable to a very narrow set of circumstances, and lay the story right over the top of 2010. Rediculous. You are a master magician, but no original thought, always someone elses worn out tricks.
mullet I've shown you how Smith used so called Revelation to his own advantage in those D&C quotes.
Read the D&C quotes and then fathom it out for yourself.
The Mormon God is very generous to Joseph while his followers are expected to do the hard graft and even hand over their wives as well as money and labour and other booty.
Now waste someone elses time. I'm happy for you to remain Mormon and pay double tithe while you are at it.
you have shown the ability to repeat the same worn out lies that have been perpetuated for 200 years. That is the only thing you have shown. "Now waste someone elses time", why not waste your time? You mistakenly assume that your time is of any value. Or, that your time is of more value than someone else that I might choose to antagonize. What arrogance! I know you would rather only hear from other like minded simpletons, but if you are going to post this garbage, you just get what you get.
''You are dealing with very specific circumstances 200 F-ing years ago''
You miss the whole point of this video and why I posted it. LDS Mormon Church members often claim that a sign of the true church is No Paid Clergy
If clergy were paid in the LDS as shown in history then that claim is another load of Bull Crap from Stupid church members who know little or nothing about there own cult. By theri own argument they show the church was not true at that time.
Yes by working your way up the Mormon Corporate Ladder and pledging your loyalty and obedience to the Profit of the Mormon God even to the point of handing over your wife and daughters if asked to. Joseph Smith many times asked for his followers wives and many were STUPID enough to hand them over in marriage.
LDS Apostle Heber C Kimball was so loyal to Cult leader JOE SMITH that he even gave his own 14 Year old daughter to 38 year old SMITH in polygamous marriage.
Ni1234ck I didn't mean anything personally about JW's when I called their organisationThe idiot Watchtower Society.
Most JW's are just sincere like the Mormon members.
I was nearly conned into the JW thing as a youth around 20 years ago. I should have known better from that experience. In fact I recognised the same techniques of 'misinformation' and 'deception' being used by the Mormon Church to recruit and maintain its Victims.
If people knew their bible better, the cults would Fail.
NO PROB. YES MOST OF THEM ARE VERY NICE. IT IS THE GOVERNMENT BODY(THE TOP LEADERS OF THE JWS) WHO (DELIBERATEDLY MISLEADS THE AVERAGE JWS LIKE ME FOR 25 YEARS.
Yes, the Church has gone astray in many instances... but don't let that ruin your own testimoney... we have become institutionalized like other sects... making celestial quality people has been put on the back burner. Day will come when a TRUE Seer and Revelator will come along and put us back in order.
oh so true, i mean, its exactly the same kind of fraud being taught in virtually every fundamentalist christian church in the world. And yet, with them, its the three monkeys, hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Talk about a bunch of brainwashed dillusional people.
That membership figure is BS. many if not most of them are only people who were pressured and fooled into baptism.
They no longer want anything to do with the church. Many in that figure are dead also and they are not removed until age 110 I think it was.
Those missionaries serving are mostly pressured young kids. I met many of them. They know nothing or very little about the church. They only know the SALES patter they have been taught, which is false.
Well there is a long and short answer to this. The short is that not even the apostles nor prophet are paid from tithing funds nor other doations but are supported by revenue from the church owned buisnesses.
If you don't see why that is relevent then there is no use explaining it to you.
If you want to see why the church even own buisnesses just look at their pioneer history.
'but are supported by revenue from the church owned buisnesses. '
Not only are they supported, they seem to be very handsomely remunerated.
The claim of No Paid Clergy by the church is misleading. The church has a history of paying their clergy.
You can twist and rationalise however much you like. JW's claim they don't have paid clergy, then I find out they have members paid an 'allowance' for spending more hours door to door.
There is a difference between building up Zion, their own city where they were trying to get out of the hands of the world/babylon (gathering and doing biz with each other) and now making big businesses that incorporate gentile and wicked hands as customers. And to become multi-miilionaires while at it is straying WAY FAR FROM LAW OF CONSECRATION. They are filling their own pockets while grinding on the poor.
Yes, you are right. This LDS church is Brigham Youngs Sect. All of Joseph Smith's relatives and all the remaining living Book Of Mormon Witnesses joined James Strang and testified that he was the legitimate successor and holder of the Priesthood Keys from Joseph Smith.
The real followers of Smith, Young and Taylor are the FLDS. Despite the abuse women in polygamy, they are only following all the revelations of these original Mormon Leaders and in the same way, through threats and obedience.
James Strang claimed to receive a letter from Joseph Smith calling him the next Prophet, which follows the pattern in the D&C. Joseph Smith was called Prophet, seer, revealator, and Translator. Brigham Young told people he wasn't able to translate, while Strang was directed by an angel to a tree, brought witnesses, dug up an ancient record, translated it, and carried it around getting validated by professors of ancient writing.
Did anyone want to comment on the Paid Clergy issue introduced by the video? The video made a pretty solid argument, but surely some one wants to at least try to defend the church. The video seems pretty accurate as far as I can tell. A true Mormon defender would say most Church Leaders are retired and were already blessed with so much money in their working lives that they turn down the small amount of money offered to help them with living expenses.
I pity this guy. Does he even have followers or a church building where his members gather for worship? The Mormon church is the only church where you can see where the tithing money goes and put in good use. Unlike this guy who collects tithing money from his followers and put it in his pocket and tells his followers to watch you tube for his sermons because he can't meet them in person for he does not have a building for a formal worship except a horse barn. Elder Joseph where's my tithing?
D&C 84:77-78, 86 and Matt 10:9-10 clarify that Apostles, Missionaries, and Ministers should go with out purse or scrip. Monson, McCraney, and anyone else who receives money for their preaching seem to all get it from donations. The people choose whether or not to donate so it technically isn't a paid ministry. If you eat at a restaurant and don't pay you are stealing. If you don't pay these men you aren't.
Its a solid argument, if you believe a couple guys that have very strong, biased agendas that having nothing at all to do with stating facts. "The video seems pretty accurate as far as I can tell" How, specifically have you determined that the video is accurate? There is nothing, other than your strong desire to believe it. I am stating right now that pixy fairies and unicorns exist. I have the same amount of proof as shawn mcdoucher. does my statement seem pretty accurate?
Very informative, thanks. Back in the day, as a teenage forced participant, I couldn't help noticing how the higher-ups tended to be affluent. I asked about this and was told that the Lord causes them to prosper so they'll have time to fulfill their responsibilities. Or, he picks them because they've made their money and have more time.
Ya gotta wonder how some of these guys with nine or ten directorships have enough time to do their apostle thing.
well, dumb ass elder joseph is at it again. obviously not WORKING but sitting eating bon bon's on the computer he probably stole, not taking his medication, wearing ladies panties. They're all the same.
I won't engage in the insults EJ, but your infatuation with all things Mormon is just proof of its truthfullness. You take every opportunity to insult, demean, and not to mention outright lie, it it suits your purposes. Why the infatuation with Mormonism?
You joined, disagreed and then left... big deal. Now why can't you leave it alone, or better yet spend your life lifting others up rather than tearing down a religion that does so much good in the world.
but the actual people that attend church every Sunday do not reflect the same friendliness, they truly believe that everybody who is not white unless they are rich, famous or talented are less than them. the dont have any respect for other churches either, for the catholic church or any other Christian denomination
Yes, there are some jerks in the lds church....how could I disagree with you?? You are equating personality with a few that you know across an tire worldwide religion, many of whom are poor and humble.
i also blame the blacks, Hispanics, Asians, homosexuals and women for lowering themselves and believe such ridiculous teachings, this come to show that the lds church capitalizes and feeds or both white men with supremacist tendencies and members of minority groups that think less of themselves, they should be smart enough to notice the bigotry
Wow, what a load of crap, I have never seen a better word bending, useing secret combination, mixing truth in with lies manipulator than shawn. But if you go on his web site he will ask you for $1000 a year or just $84 a month to support his cause. Which is his will really? Does anyone really want to support the will of this guy?
What is crap about it ? What is Truth and what is manipulation and how do you know? Have you got information above what Shawn McCraney has? I doubt it very much.
And what is requesting $1000 a year compared with the LDS cult asking for 10% of your money or else you will not only BURN at the saviours coming but will not even be with your fellow obedient money paying family members in CK in the next life.
I think secret combinations is more applicable to the LDs Temple Endowment where members swore an oath not to reveal them outside of that Temple and enacted a throat slitting ritual as to what would happen to them if they did.
and you have the audacity to speak of secret combinations?
Marco, as a believing Latter Day Saint, I have to tell you that you are dead wrong. All you did was deny and declare the information read above to be false, but you don't tell us how you know differently.
These documents are public records.
Our leaders DO live a lavish lifestyle as I can personally attest. Rather than defend this corruption, you might do well to recall the Book of Mormon's warnings about the falling away of the Latter Day Saints in our time.
lds or Mormon members always like to put me down due to my mixed race. they seem to believe they are better than me because they are pure white. the church basically gives priority to white males, white women, black people, Latin Americans of most races, Asians, Polynesians and even homosexuals are all of a lesser level they would not respect or mingle with other cultures meaningfully, the church tends to use friendly tones when addressing for PR purposes,
I think mixed people are among the most beautiful people in the world. Lenny Kravitz is on of my favorite artist. Obama is by far my favorite president. My best friend growing up in school A Mestisto. Now for those of you that don't know what that is its halve african and halve spanish. Any by the way my own brother is gay. Love him very much. So again where do get your information from?
Oh give it a rest.....what a bigoted statement coming from yourself....you have just made a blanket statement covering all 13 million members. I know MANY mixed race Mormons personally: your statement is absolutely ridiculous.
i also know members that are hispanic,mixed race, blacks etc. all of them have to endure humiliations and don't feel equal they are categorized as of a lesser spiritual level for the most, there are some exeptions but those only apply to the ones who have grown up lds and within the same neighborhood. i am not saying lets punish the mormons or lets take away mormons rights or lets take away the mormons right to wed, so i am not using bigoted statements,
Yes, they are bigoted. You called the entire Mormon church racist.....just because you came across a few bad apples or jerks, you then make a blanket statement for an entire group: that makes your statement bigoted. Note, I did not call you a bigot: that takes a real creep to sink that low, but your statement was bigoted. Again, I know about a dozen mixed race members: its has never even come up in discussion.
The church doctrine refers to darkered people as inferior or cursed and as a result it has created a racist culture within the church, i would not say a few rotten apples, i would say lots of rotten apples i don't think i know any mormon who truly respects darker people and all the mixed raced, blacks, hispanics etc.that i know are members feel the exact same way, these people are not against the church neither am i we just dont trust them
i cant imagine if the mormons had their own country
i dont have to go anywhere i dont have to do anything you say i dont need to your advice, that is not the point of this conversation, the point is the LDS church is obviously a fraud and manipulates its members to the point where they dont think nor reason but just follow what the church say blindly, some members get very defensive when they are asked simple open ended questions and find it necesary to defend themselves in a very arrogant and disrespecful way.
most people will have a better actitude towards the church if leaders and members were more honest in their answers. what is the point of going to africa or south america to preach the gospel if you are going to put people down and avoid mingling with them as equals,
We are all God's childrens: all of us are equal. To state that the church teaches otherwise is a flat out lie: to state that you have met some LDS members that are insensitve and rude to you is a personality issue, not a doctrinal issue. This really isn't an argument, because you're basing it on personal experience rather than worldwide Church trends. The worldwide trend shows the exact opposite of your individual experiences.
i am not rude to anybody you dont even know me, the church apostles teach now adays in accordance to their PR objectives but in the church itself is completely different the book of mormon refers to a curse race worldwide the exact same doctrine is tought and lived I am not judging on the few. I would like to wrap up this conversaction and I dont want to make it personal we are just discussing some points of view,
Agreed: if I have I offended you, that was not my intent. My conclusion to our discussion is simply this: you have given blanket statements about our church that is has racist undertones. I couldn't disagree more as I have travelled many places and seen so many, many people of colour in the world that accept Christ as their Savior and Joseph Smith as the prophet of the restoration.
is not a blanket statement i am being speciific and i dont care how much have you travelled, the fact is the church teaches that and members believe it, you are just in denial and dont want to accept the truth, because you were brainwash to defend the church no matter what, this sort of behavior leads people to become radical you can keep denying as much as you want, you know wishful thinking
SPIN IT SHAWN SPIN IT!
scottwins2 1 month ago
@scottwins2 " SPIN IT SHAWN SPIN IT!"
Stake Patriarchs charging a dollar for 'Blessings' ( ie Fortune Telling Bullshit LDS style). lol
Bishops getting paid from Tithing in the Past? lol
hahahha Mormons are a joke and quite frankly they deserve all the stick they get for being so stiffnecked and stupid because of a cult. Granted those born into it are screwed with brainwashing and have little choice. A few dumb or mentally ill convert when adults.
Scott you lose! CTR!!! lol
ElderJoseph 1 month ago
@ElderJoseph I think we know what the blab it and grab it crowd on TBN are aspiring to be. eh?
BrotherMichael1000 3 weeks ago
I wish we did have more paid clergy in the LDS Church. We might get some better sacrament speakers.
trencher7 2 months ago
By the way, the historical information about paid bishops/stake presidents/patriarchs was really interesting. I shall be passing that information on at the first opportunity.
rivenrock 8 months ago 2
EJ: The apostles being members of boards is actually evidence of NOT paying the LDS clergy (because they are not being paid for their church work) the same way that a bishop keeps his fulltime job while serving as a bishop. UNLESS of course the Church is using its influence to place them in these positions. I don't doubt it is so, given some of the mismatches between careers and directorships you listed, but I would be very interested to know if there is sure knowledge of such.
rivenrock 8 months ago
@rivenrock Some 'General Authorities' actually do get paid 'Stipends' and YES I believe that serving as GA's does influence the choice of directorships on numerous church companies. LDS members are usually proud to assert about No Paid Clergy but they don't Know the real deal. For goodness sake the History they are taught is Fabricated (White washed) why would the finance issue be any different and especially as accounts are kept secret from ordinary members and the public alike.
ElderJoseph 8 months ago
@ElderJoseph Oh I have zero doubt that the finances are completely corrupt. I just like to source hard evidence when I can, because talking to people about this stuff can get so inflammatory.
It is definitely true about the stipends. I actually remember a visiting GA making a joke once in a talk about how he was 'living on church welfare'. Plus I know I've seen a breakdown on the uses of tithing that included reference to the living expenses of GAs.
rivenrock 8 months ago
@rivenrock During one Elders Quorum session the class was being led to believe that GA's when they are called hand over their assets and everything to the church in some kind of Law of Concecration and total commitment to the 'Gospel'.
I was suspicious this lesson was another innacurate one and contacted the Mission President. He told me when GA's are called they give up regular full time employment only and instead serve the church and if they 'need' financial assistance they get it.
ElderJoseph 8 months ago
@rivenrock Jehovahs Witnesses also like to brag about No Paid Clergy much like the LDS do. However some JW's who knock a certain amount of Hours monthly receive a paid ' allowance' as Special PIoneers. In other words thats cult mumbo jumbo for being paid, much like 'Stipends for LDS leaders or even so called expenses as LDS GA's
ElderJoseph 8 months ago
If you are willing to try undertanding, go to mormon.org and you get a hold of missionaries who truly understand how to straighten out your confusion with the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
1016hurricane 10 months ago
@1016hurricane LDS Missionaries are just Sales Representatives. Their sole purpose is to Sell LDS inc with no consideration at all to informing potential recruits about the real life behaviour of founder Joseph Smith. Many/most missionaries do not even know the real truth about Joseph Smith and really are totally unqualified to be discussing religion.
LDS is just another lying cult like the Jehovahs Witnesses. Both use deceipt and manipulation to recruit and maintain it's victims.
ElderJoseph 10 months ago 2
@ElderJoseph I can see that this is going no where. You can beleive what you want to believe, but until you have tried to live the principles of the gosple and see God promised blessings come into your life. you are always going to fight and persecute something that is good. I am my own person and no one has manipulated me to do anything. I choose for myself. Many people join the church every year using their own agency.
1016hurricane 10 months ago
@ElderJoseph I can see that this is going no where. You can beleive what you want to believe, but until you have tried to live the principles of the gosple and see God promised blessings come into your life. you are always going to fight and persecute something that is good. I am my own person and no one has manipulated me to do anything. I choose for myself. Many people join the church every year using their own agency.
1016hurricane 10 months ago
@ElderJoseph Missonaries are nineteen, and sure some aren't as doctrinaly smart as some who are scholars. But they ahve something so much more, the authority ti act in God's name(Priesthood). This is why the church is true and is a miracle that people join. The gosple is plain and simple. I am not a liar, and I have never lied about the gosple to anyone. God loves everyone. Thank you for listening, I hope you may one day be able to really truly understand the gosple without no judgements.
1016hurricane 10 months ago
@1016hurricane LDS missionaries have no authority and no real Priesthood. They only think they have because someone has claimed such and that someone is Joesph Smith.
There are over 100n sects of Mormonsim and all claim they have the Priesthood. Its not a unique claim, even Jehovahs Witnesses knock on doors and claim thet Jesus Formally approved of them around 1914 as his only true organisation.
You mean well but you have alot to learn in life about religious crooks and crocks. lol
ElderJoseph 10 months ago
@1016hurricane As long as the church is unwilling to disclose their finances, no mormon has the right the criticise any comments about LDS finances.
drinkswithnedkelly 8 months ago 4
@1016hurricane i feel sorry for you. pray for yur self that you'll see the truth n stop being NAIVE.
9v0a0i 3 months ago
I will never regret being a member of this church, it has only blessed my life. God sent his son to die and suffer for us all, so that we may, through our decisions and actions make it back to his presence. When Jesus was on earth he was persecuted constantly for what he believed and taught. it's becuase people didn't understand. This is the same today. People will always persecute things they don't understand. Christs gosple can never be understood unless we try to live it. Are you willing to?
1016hurricane 10 months ago
I served a mission for LDS Church in Taiwan speaking Mandarin Chinese. These people are the most wonderful and humble people I have ever met. I saw the Book of Mormon change there lives as they followed it teachings. I never once lied to them or forced them to be baptized they chose after they read with the intent to get an answer from their Heavenly Father if it was true. They did as did I recieve an answer that it was true. I loved their traditions(Buddhism and Taoism) which are all good.
1016hurricane 10 months ago
@1016hurricane I know what missionaries teach investigators. I was a Golden Investigator myself. Missionaries do not know their own history properly and end up misleading potential recruyits.
Missionaries are pressured to baptise people and especially before they know exactly what they are getting involved with and with just minimal or ZERO facts and real LDS doctrines.
Thats why most soon dissappear ( go inactive?). It's just a time wasting excercise for the most part for corporate figures.
ElderJoseph 10 months ago
Some people have too much time to themselves! Go out and do something good instead of wasting time bashing The church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints. I am just so happy I belong to the only church with the fullness today! I am proud to be a mormon!
1016hurricane 10 months ago
@1016hurricane A church, who's book, apparently the word of God, had been changed over 4000 times.
999LDS 10 months ago
@999LDS, This is the thing, God has called a Prophet in the Latter-days who recieves revelation. The Doctrine of the Gosple never contradicts itself. Men may have faults, but God is perfect and so is his pirnciples and ordinances of His gosple. The Book of Mormon is the most correct book on earth today!
1016hurricane 10 months ago
@1016hurricane You make me laugh. How can you say the BOM is the most correct book on earth, when it has more holes in it than Bonnie and Clyde's car.
It has 17th century texts, most of its words was copied by Smith from the KJV Bible, DNA proof the red skin people were from Asia and not the America's , Hill Cumorah dont exist, Kolob dont exist, Smith stuck his head in a hat, Smith was charged with glass looking, the list goes on.. and on.. and on... zzzzzz
999LDS 10 months ago
@1016hurricane ... This is the thing, God put an end for the need of Prophets as He sent his Son Jesus Christ in fulfilment of the prophesies and to accomplish their purpose. It is stated clearly in the Bible, Hebrews 1:1-3 to give one example. I understand you believe what you believe, but I believe you have been mislead as Mormon doctrine falls outside Christian doctrine and belief system.
54v115 10 months ago
@1016hurricane You belong to the church with the fullness of exactly what? Extortion, deception, lying?
What is there so proud to be about being a member of a lying cult? Do something usefull yourself in life instead of spreading mormon Bullcrap. No one gives a damn that you are a cult member.
ElderJoseph 10 months ago
@ElderJoseph I don't want people to care about me. I want people to care about is understanding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I know the things I have read in the Bible and Book of Mormon are true. there is nothing wrong about being proud of something. But its the type of pride that causes us to be closed minded and want to bring others down that is wrong. I am a lover of all faiths that teach the Doctrine of Christ and LIVE it, as is God and his son Jesus Christ.
1016hurricane 10 months ago
@1016hurricane We understand the LDS church very well. It lies, it deceives and is run by a bunch of liars. It's nothing much more than a corporate Dollar grabbing enterprise buying Real Estate and other business interests globally. The Christ bit is just to keep the recruits in.
My Video is about LDS Apostles being paid much like many other clergy. Nowadays they are paid Indirectly through church businesses.
Mormons only Love the church they aretaught to worship from birth.
ElderJoseph 10 months ago
@1016hurricane ..Proud?... oops!
54v115 10 months ago
Yes, and what he doesn't tell you is that most of the apostles of today, are very successful wealthy individuals that could spend the rest of their lives fishing if the wanted to, but instead they accept the call to serve. Brigham Yound donated all of his food during the trek to the Salt Lake Valley and was sick by the time he reached the place. I don't see myself wanting to do all the work these men do at their old age. I would prefer to retire confortably fairly unknown from the world.
gusanastro 1 year ago
That's the worst thing about being a Mormon. Instead of using logic and
facts, Mormons are asked to pray about it.
Pray and dont get any answers ? For what I pray about it?
Better I use my own brains to decide if the Church is true, and
relying on logivc, historical, geographical and DNA evidences.
Pray about it is just an escape from reality.
joho388 1 year ago
LMAO! What a racket. It's funny, and sad, at the same time.
nameofthepen 1 year ago
All I want to say to everyone who is going along with this, read the Book Of Mormon, pray about it! It is truly life changing. And if you don't want to do that then go on google and look up Mormon articles of faith, and read those. Those are the 13 short main parts if our religion.
lilmisscute1313 1 year ago 2
@lilmisscute1313 better still is to go on google and find out how Joseph SMith was sexually interfering with housemaids (while married ) and asking for others mens wives and sleeping with them (having 'maried' them despite them having husbands already). Then find out how he was targetting 14 year olds for the same treatment.
He got away with this because of your terribley bad suggestion to pray about his book rather than look at it academically and see what a fraud it is.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago 8
Comment removed
scottwins2 1 month ago
@lilmisscute1313 i have read the book of mormon and i have prayed and god said NO for many will be deasived in the last days
gingernutpreacher 1 year ago
"Elder" Joseph, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has NO PAID CLERGY. We do have, however, a welfare program second to none. ALL of our leaders, from the lowly home teacher, all the way to the Prophet, have or had full time jobs, and "amass" wealth, and live off the fruit of our labours. The Apostles, who sit on boards of Church orother agencies, who EARN money by such labors, are no different than the bishop that is a Plumber or Executive. They are NOT paid for their ministry.
jhamana 1 year ago
@jhamana
I think you mean 'We LDS do not have Paid Clergy anymore'?
However we do have loads of companies built up thanks to past members tithes and our GA's and Apostles are remunerated for there loyal service in this way instead. Amazing how much time Apostles and GA's have spare to sit on numerous boardships and run companies when I was led to believe they were full time Apostles receiving allowances only if needed and living off their own savings/retirement provisions.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@jhamana And what do you mean by 'scond to none' welfare program?
Here in the UK it's the British Taxpapyer who supports those who need welfare (including LDS members) and the ward used to want 10%of that Tax payer given welfare from them.
Yes the local ward did help members but would make sure they got as much from the British Taxpayer they could and paid the church Tithe FIRST.
LDS welfare is nowhere as good or generous as Taxpayer State welfare.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@ElderJoseph - well stated.
54v115 10 months ago
@jhamana Oh come on, If U think So Highly of Your profit and apostle, how they do their jobs out of the goodness of their hearts, Don't be so stupid to believe such bull crap!
firewings12 1 year ago
Why do you call your self Elder Joseph? are you an ex-member of the LDS church?. I'm going to share these wise words (not mine)......WORLD PEACE, LIKE COMMUNITY PEACE, DOES NOT require that each man love his neighbor. IT REQUIRES "only" that they live together with MUTUAL TOLERANCE,submmiting their disputes to a JUST AND PEACEFUL SETTLEMENT........John F. Kennedy
May God Smile On You Today. :-D
isletas365 1 year ago
@isletas365
Why do LDS leaders in slat lake call themselves elder? Elder Holland, Elder Oaks etc
Why do they send out kids with little or no education in real mormon history and doctrine with badges which say 'elder' on them?
LDS do not own the word elder. In fact it has no claim or authority at all to use the word elder whatsoever.
I use it for fiction just like the Mormon church is fiction.
Perhaps address those 'wise' words to those LDS involved in the Mountain Meadows Massacre.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago 3
One word can sum up all ur gonna get outta all this in the end..." Regret "
TrickTrolan 1 year ago 8
@TrickTrolan Regret for what? Telling the Truth? What will happen to the LDS leaders who lied out of their back teeth and still do? What wil happen to those who taught me for two yeras that Joseph Smith was married to Emma when he was married to at least 33 OTHER women and including other mens wives?
Who according to the bible is the father of the lie? The LDS church lies to recruit people.
This is totally ridiiculous, get some research done.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@ElderJoseph TrickTrolan guy thumbs up his own comments. He commented to me before and had three thumbs up with 30 seconds on a video that doesn't have that many views lol i think he would have put six like he has done here but i caught him in his tracks
crazy456eyes 1 year ago
@TrickTrolan exposed, just like Joseph was!!
crazy456eyes 1 year ago
Another good reason to watch, "The LDS Awakening" here on youtube. It explains why a tornado went right through temple square back in 1999. The Mormons, like everyone else, needs sincere repentance.
samuelonthewall 1 year ago
Flagged, have a blessed day
grimgrinners 1 year ago
@grimgrinners In the real world we are not afraid to tell the truth about things and especially about lying cults like the Mormon Church.
No one will take your flag seriously because you are a dumb ass cult member and deserve no respect for being in a cult.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@Ingle92protege The LDS church leaders even teach their followers that if they pau tithe they will be blessed with DOLLARS.
Elder Sheldon F. Child LDS conference April 2008
'I want to say to you, if you will be honest with the Lord, paying your tithing and keeping his commandments, he will not only bless you with the light and inspiration of his Holy Spirit, but you will be blessed in dollars and cents; you will be enabled to pay your debts, and the Lord '
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
These are basically "no show" jobs, just like in The Sopranos.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
Man! This is a mafia. These are "no show jobs," just like on The Sopranos. I have to wonder, if the RICO statute were used examine the operations of the Mormon Chuch, what dirty secrets would come out? I wonder how many Mormon apostles would wind up sleeping w/ the fishs in the Great Salt Lake. Do they have fish in the Great Salt Lake? They have brine shrimp, sleeping w/ the brine shrimp then.
VictorLepanto 2 years ago
The only problem is, you are working under the assumption that anything elmerjokeseph and shawn mcdouchebag is saying is factual. You've got to be smarter than to form any opinions based on what these king douchers have to say. O.J. said he was innocent, derrr, a moving pie hole with sounds coming out of it, does not equal facts. Don't be be duped by these two extra chromosome carrying sacks of dukey.
mulletthater 2 years ago
@mulletthater: Nice. Is this the state or Mormon apologetics, ridiculing down's syndrome cases? From what I've observed, nothing better comes out. A hint guy, when you start attacking the guy making the argument, you are admitting that the argument of your opponent us unassailable. If Brigham Young allowed bishops to receive pay then they were a paid clergy. If a paid clergy is corrupt, they Brigham Young is corrupt. Then the SLC Church is corrupt. Refute this or admit its truth.
VictorLepanto 2 years ago
Victor, attacking the author of these lies, does not infer an admission of anything. Your subjective opinion in no way represents fact or truth. I attack these guys, because they carefully present you with partial information, never in a reasonable context and people like you are way to eager to accept it without doing your own research. I have no responsibility to refute fraudulent claims and just find it comical that you think matters of faith can be tangibly proven or disproven.
mulletthater 2 years ago
@mulletthater: If they have presented partial information, then all you need to do is present the FULL information & show how they have distorted the truth. You do not do that. You simply accuse them of having done so & make no effort to do so. You then fill you posts w/ childish insults against their person. This is knonw as the fallacy of the ad homiinem attack. Resorting to such a distraction method is reasonable construed as proof you have no valid argument. If you do present IT!
VictorLepanto 2 years ago
I understand what you saying, but you have to realize, that I have been inside and out of these arguments a thousand times. And the ad homonym fallacy sounds nifty, but is not applicable to me. There are two critical things you must know about what I am doing. 1st, a serious response with counter documentation, immediately gives credibility to the original argument, which it does not merit. 2nd, the moment you refute a claim, they either restate or jump to another. typical anti-mo playbook.
mulletthater 2 years ago
Victor, you seem like a reasonable person. Let me explain how this plays out if I make a sincere effort to refute these lies. I know the born again/anti-mo playbook like the back of my hand. After I make a sincere effort with documentation, context and explanation, eldernutjob will say, "your a brainwashed cultist" and he'll move on immediately to the next lie. Round & round we go. Unreasonable people cannot be reasoned with, people who search only for falsehoods will only find falsehoods.
mulletthater 2 years ago
''I make a sincere effort with documentation, context and explanation''
You haven't documented anything at all.
Has there ever been any paid clergy in the LDS?
So Mormons should shut their big mouths claiming that No paid clergy is a sign of the true church when they have a history of paid clergy.
Smith lived off his church after his hat and stone treasure dig scam career ended in court. He didn't work. he declared in D&C that he should not work but be supported by his church.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Lest you be a hypocrite, I would like you to explain why you have an issue with my name calling, but you seem to be just fine with elmerjokeseph calling Thomas S. Monson an "ASSpostle, and call every Mormon a "Liar, Fraud, Cultist, Child Molester, brainwashed. He refers to our church leadership in the most vile ways imaginable. I would suggest that you check the self righteous judgements at the door til your ready to hold everyone accountable.
mulletthater 2 years ago
@mulletthater: Whatever rumors you might have heard to the contrary, I am not ElmerJokeseph's mother. & even if I was, He is presumably a legal (even if not a psychological) adult. You have made no effort to refute any of the evidence that Mormons pay their leaders. If this CES fund is real (as I've looked it up & found it to be so), if there are LDS corporations like Deseret Publishing & men like Monson are employed in them their whole lives, if the "Apostles" are paid; then the LDS IS lying.
VictorLepanto 2 years ago
Every member of the church, including leadership have professional lives. Many of which were very successful in the private sector. It is laughable that you think you have uncovered something that isn't well known and never hidden. The church operates hundreds of businesses, to produce goods that are distributed around the world. Being a church leader does not mean that they cannot be compensated for professional services. If it makes your nips hard to call that paid clergy, have at it.
mulletthater 2 years ago
@mulletthater: Why is it so difficult for Mormons to grasp simple logic. I guess it is b/c their whole religious system is based on subjective sentiment. "I really it, it was a 'burning in my bossom.'" The issue here is that Mormons raise the issue of an unpaid clergy. They make this a virtue when in fact they are paying their leaders. All clergy teach, you have a system of professional paid church teachers. People being groomed for leadership in the church are employed by chruch corporations.
VictorLepanto 2 years ago
''elmerjokeseph calling Thomas S. Monson an "ASSpostle,''
I'n not aware of calling Tommy M. an Asspostle. Its very unlikely that I have.
You probably mean Asspostles like Orson Pratt who taught falsehoods in The Seer and married 16 year old girls at age 57, and perhaps even McConkie who misled generations of members with his blacks are the less valiant teachings and further that they are denied the LDS priesthood in this mortality.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
''and call every Mormon a "Liar, Fraud, Cultist, Child Molester, brainwashed. ''
Now you are geting out of control.
I have never called all Mormons anything like this. Read my chanel profile if you like to know what I think of the ordinary LDS church members.
But you are not an ordinary church member. You are a cult apologist trying to mislead my channel viwers, but they are not stupid.
I hear from many church members who have found out the real truth about the origin of Mormonism.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
You haven't refuted anything.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Derrrr, master of the obvious! How many different ways would like me to explain, as I have in nearly every post, I am not trying to refute this garbage. This amazing secret, you think you have uncovered is so monumentally irrelevant. My only purpose is to antagonize you and expose the biased, butt-hurt, someone offended me, agenda of yours. your hatred filled agenda disqualifies you from being a reliable of source of information. You can't be taken seriously.
mulletthater 2 years ago
''your hatred filled agenda disqualifies you from being a reliable of source of information''
The Video does not have my information.
Its information discovered by a faithfull LDS church member called Michael Quinn.
The church it seems excommunicated him for revealing the truth in history.
Thats the problem with Totalitarianists cults like Mormonism, telling the truth is frowned upon.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
@mulletthater: The secret is that the Mormon Church is lying about a paid clergy. They have a paid clergy, it is all inside nepotistic deal making. Monson has been living off the church all his life. That in itself is not the issue. The issue is the Mormons make out that other churches are false b/c of pay. Thus they are lying about a principle that they do not live up to. It is even worse as these lords of the church impose on local bishops to run things for them for nothing.
VictorLepanto 2 years ago
Were you aware that Satan has a heart tattoo with Shawn McCraney's name in the middle of it, on his left butt cheek. Shawn has some serious love waiting for him on the other side!
mulletthater 2 years ago
mulletthater
Why don't you adress the video, the fact that Tommy Monson made himself wealthy as an ASSpostle in the church.
The fact that LDS clergy were directly paid in the past and are rewarded on various church company board positions.
Cultist and Timewaster.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Liar and Fraud! The fact that you think your deluded perception in any way reflects reality is just laughable! Everything in this video is fraudulent lies and distortions. You work under the assumption that because you say it, it actually has validity. There are some who clearly see through your slight of hand. No matter how much you try to create the mystery, it's just another worn out trick. ElderJokeseph, what motivates you to lie so relentlessly?
mulletthater 2 years ago
''Liar and Fraud! ''
Check out My LDS leaders lying Videos for the correct rendition of what Liars and Frauds really are.
Don't you ever wonder how LDS leaders get numerous directorships within the cults own Business activitiesand why?
Would they be called to the same said directorships if they quit the cult?
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
I would wonder, if your tweaked perception resembled reality in anyway. If there were any truth in the dukey that exits your pie hole, then yes I would be very curious. But wondering about questions posed by a biased, lying douche just doesn't have the profound affect that you would like to think it does. I can bake a shit pie and tell you it is an apple pie, but no matter what you call it or how pretty you make it, it's still a shit pie.
mulletthater 2 years ago
LDS Mormon Church members often claim that a sign of the true church is No Paid Clergy.
In that case you were never a true church as clergy were paid as clergy even though recently its done through the back door via 'dirctorships' and business links with the $ cult.
Timewaster and cult recruiter.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Then I guess the Catholics win! If we use your definition of paid clergy and paid clergy disqualifies every church from being Christs one true church, then the only one left standing is the Catholic church. I guess I better go get my sprinkly baptism and take my first communion. By the way, there is no aspect of religion that can be 100% proven or disproven. These are matters of faith. It is such a waste trying to disprove that which cannot be proven.
mulletthater 2 years ago
''Christs one true church''
This is a problem with cults like LDS and Jehovahs Witnesses who claim that God personally sanctioned eact respective organisation to be therestorers of some ultimate monopolised truth.
The truth is that both are a fraud, both claims are false and both use lies and deception to further there cult leaders cause.
Smith made up the Mormon tripe and ran it with an element of fear (of him) that he really was Gods Voice. He was just a Benny Hinn and worse.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
''If we use your definition of paid clergy and paid clergy disqualifies every church from being Christs one true church''
Its not my definition. There is nothing wrong with paid clergy.
Its the argument that dumb or uneducated LDS church members use and where do they get it from?
Stick to the claims of the Video and why I posted it instead of making your own up and then answering them.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
I've even described the purpose of the video in my description quote:
"LDS Mormon Church members often claim that a sign of the true church is No Paid Clergy.
''Bishops and Stake Presidents (these days at least) are not paid and do serve out of a sense of duty and privilage, believing they have been called of God via the LDS Priesthood.''
However in the past they have been paid and LDS Apostles too.
Now there is the issue of multiple executive pay directorships for LDS Apostles.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
@ElderJoseph
I was impressed with the accuracy of your data, regarding what directors (who sit on boards) get paid, annualy.
When you multiply out those Apostle (and Prophet) Directorships, you get an ENORMOUS amount of money that each one of those turds rakes in!
And, a person can do the reasearch to see that a lot of those corporations are wholly-owned by the Mormon Crutch.
So, the church is paying them: one way or another! (even after they become incapacitated!)
orlovna2 1 year ago
elmerjokeseph, its like asking me to respond to a fifth grader calling me a poopyhead. No matter what the response is, you just go into rainman mode and start repeating the lies that you already stated. As though saying it again is going to make it less of a lie than it was the first time. I would take this all more seriously if any actual facts were stated, and if you were ever actually going to accomplish anything. For sane people, you are merely comic relief.
mulletthater 2 years ago
Oh yeah, great move, you worried about wether or not anyone in our Church is paid. So you actually have the gaul to put Shawn McCraney on to put forth his venom. Hah total fail. Shawn is no stranger to the buck. Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. Total fail
myway43 2 years ago
Well I was always told in LDS that there are 'no paid clergy' and that 'no paid clergy' is a sign of the true church.
You've just proven the point and confirmed that LDS clergy 'were' and are 'being paid' just like every other clergy including shawn McCraney.
So its time for LDS to drop yet another false claim.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
I did not confirm anything. I do not know if any one is paid or not. I have never met anyone in our leadership on our level that is paid. So as far as I know they are not.
myway43 2 years ago
The local leadership are not paid.
The Apostles,Prophets and others at the higher level are paid and most likely have perks( business wise with their own companies) and even paid as directors on church Companies.
Its certain that past Apostles were paid and also the local leadership(as McCraney points out) , and now that the church keeps its accounts secret, even from members pay tithe, its difficult to know who gets what exactly.
Why do they keep the accounts secret from members?
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
I tell you what. I do not klnow wether Church clergy are paid or not, I simply don't care. It does not effect my life one way or another. If they are payed so what? Let me refer you to some other paid clergy, Robert Tilton, Benny Hinn, Joel Olsteen, Jim Bakker, and the list goes on and on. These are proclaimed leaders of the evangelical Church. Begging for you to send a "Love" offering. Always preaching to "Sow that seed!" and God will give you a cadillac.
myway43 2 years ago
So many of them do not teach the gospel of Jesus Christ as much as they teach the gospel of prosperity. Snake oil salesman. I have not heard you talk about any of them, why the singular interest in the LDS Church? Sounds like you simply have a chip on your shoulder. Brush off the chip and return to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. He knows you, and he knows your heart.
myway43 2 years ago
Robert Tilton, Benny Hinn, Joel Olsteen, Jim Bakker etc
'Snake oil salesman'
I agree with you. I'm glad to see some people are in fact exposing them here on You tube.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
life must be easy when you're a born again. Elder Jokeseph is probably an atheist, but the born agains play this game. They act like they are the standard bearer of truth. And yet, because there is nothing even remotely close to a consensus on doctrine among evangelicals, they get to discard their own, like Hinn, Tilton etc whenever it is convenient, but the Mormons must be accountable for every off hand account scratched out in a journal from 200 yrs ago. The hypocracy is mind blowing!
mulletthater 2 years ago
Mormonism is a fraud and thrives on deception. Why drag others into it? It doesn't make your farud any less of a fraud.
Mormons claim the bible canot be trusted because its been 'manipulated' and 'altered'.
So why have it in your standard Quad?
Mormonism thrives on Athiesms criticisms of the bible.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
This is a perfect example of how you package that pretty shit pie and sell it to others. NO Mormon ever claimed or taught or currently teaches that the Bible cannot be trusted. I know you know that, but you cleverly verbalize it in a way that satisfies your subjective biased agenda. This is a classic example of how you operate. Now, the ignorant people you target, immediately give credence to your words simply because you say it. People, don't eat the shit pie!
mulletthater 2 years ago
''This is a perfect example of how you package that pretty shit pie and sell it to others.''
Mormonism is Josephs Myth Shit Pie. Wel done for th analogy,and you are ful of it yourself being a joseph Smith shit pie consumer.
Now keep off my channel cultist.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
I apologize for exposing you and pulling the vail away from your magic show. I can understand you wanting me off of your channel. Making yourself seem credible is much easier to do in a room full of coolaid drinkers, that take everything you say at face value. I know it drives you nuts that I don't take your claims seriously. Someone like you that thinks they can marginalize 13million people by calling them a cult and is deluded into thinking you can make a difference is just laughable.
mulletthater 2 years ago
Let me marginalize your 13 m. members against Southern Baptists. They win!
Have you been warming up to renew your temple reccomend? You seem to be doing a good job protecting Joseph Smiths buffoonery along with your spirit brother Satans language. Now go lie to your bishop worthy boy.
monitorpotato 2 years ago
I agree with you about all those evangelical leaders asking for money and living in glory mammon.
they are frauds and its very sad that people are taken it by it all.
But the LDS claim no one is paid and members claim that a sign of the true church is No Paid Clergy and thats not case with the LDS leaders ( especially historically). They were being remunerated in one way or another and likely still are. They should be more transparent about it all.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Shawn McDoucheyBoy was referencing out of context data from the 1840's. There really is no end to lengths you will go to, to lie and serve your master, Satan, is there? Aren't you thrilled, that the church supposedly keeps its accounts sercret? That leaves you with the ability to do what you do best! fill in the blanks with your fabrications of the feable mind. Cause, apparently the way this works is, you just say stuff, and expect everyone to believe you. So, babble on my retarded friend.
mulletthater 2 years ago
Why are the accounts secret?
Are not members intelligent enough to be told how church expenditure is allocated?
Well members are the douchebags it seems. LDS leaders believe it Ok to lie and Deceive its members if it furthers the purpose of the said Cult.
Smith lied to his followers all his life while he screwed the women and made up some kind of celestial sex excuse forced on him by some Mormonic God with an eternal erection.
maybe you can try AMWAY while you are at it.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Got it Rain Man! I think we covered this already didn't we? def-def-def definately lied, def-def-definately smith lied. Wapner, gotta watch wapner!
mulletthater 2 years ago
I know the concept is hard to understand for a born again pastor, who steals from the poor and makes no attempt to be self sufficient. The fact that LDS leaders had professional lives before and during their church service proves nothing more than their willingness to continue to be self sufficient. Being paid for professional services is in no way related to being paid by your church or congregation. Born agains favor the reverse Robin Hood treatment i guess.
mulletthater 2 years ago
Joseph Smith did not work and lived offf his followers.
Got himself a house built
D&C 41 : 7 And again, it is meet that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., should have a house built, in which to live and translate.
food and rainment too and whatever else he needs !
D&C 43:13 And again, I say unto you, that if ye desire the mysteries of the kingdom, provide for him food and raiment, and whatsoever thing he needeth to accomplish the work wherewith I have commanded him;
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Smith claimed he got revelation that he should NOT need to work. can't you see how his revelations were very handy for him. He made them up as he went along and his stupid recruits feel for them. hahah
D&C 24: 9 And in temporal labors thou shalt not have strength, for this is not thy calling. Attend to thy calling and thou shalt have wherewith to magnify thine office, and to expound all scriptures, and continue in laying on of the hands and confirming the churches.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
ElderJOKESEPH, you silly little man. You are dealing with very specific circumstances 200 F-ing years ago. I realize that this is how your deception works. Every piece of evidence I have ever seen you bring forward has the same pattern. You want to apply decisions made 200 years ago, applicable to a very narrow set of circumstances, and lay the story right over the top of 2010. Rediculous. You are a master magician, but no original thought, always someone elses worn out tricks.
mulletthater 2 years ago
mullet I've shown you how Smith used so called Revelation to his own advantage in those D&C quotes.
Read the D&C quotes and then fathom it out for yourself.
The Mormon God is very generous to Joseph while his followers are expected to do the hard graft and even hand over their wives as well as money and labour and other booty.
Now waste someone elses time. I'm happy for you to remain Mormon and pay double tithe while you are at it.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
you have shown the ability to repeat the same worn out lies that have been perpetuated for 200 years. That is the only thing you have shown. "Now waste someone elses time", why not waste your time? You mistakenly assume that your time is of any value. Or, that your time is of more value than someone else that I might choose to antagonize. What arrogance! I know you would rather only hear from other like minded simpletons, but if you are going to post this garbage, you just get what you get.
mulletthater 2 years ago
Full of Crap you are. You can't fool me. cultist and Timewaster.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
''You are dealing with very specific circumstances 200 F-ing years ago''
You miss the whole point of this video and why I posted it. LDS Mormon Church members often claim that a sign of the true church is No Paid Clergy
If clergy were paid in the LDS as shown in history then that claim is another load of Bull Crap from Stupid church members who know little or nothing about there own cult. By theri own argument they show the church was not true at that time.
Embarrassing for you all.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
CAN I BECOME A MULTI DIRECTOR TOO!!!
Ni1234ck 2 years ago
Yes by working your way up the Mormon Corporate Ladder and pledging your loyalty and obedience to the Profit of the Mormon God even to the point of handing over your wife and daughters if asked to. Joseph Smith many times asked for his followers wives and many were STUPID enough to hand them over in marriage.
LDS Apostle Heber C Kimball was so loyal to Cult leader JOE SMITH that he even gave his own 14 Year old daughter to 38 year old SMITH in polygamous marriage.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
@ElderJoseph
ISNT'T IT A SHAME THAT YOUR SO BELOVED AMERICAN CONSTITUTION PROETECTS AND PROMOTES SUCH ABOMINABABLE CULTS!!!!!!
Ni1234ck 2 years ago
Yes we get the Idiots called The Watchtower Society of Jehovahs Witnesses from America as well.
How many families have they ruined in the last 100 plus years?
I bet they are not far behind the Mormon Cult.
Both lie and deceive for recruits and maintainence of recruits loyalty. The followers of each group being deceived themselves.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
@ElderJoseph
SINCE I WAS A JEHOVAS WITNESSES FOR ALMOST 25 Y. I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT-ONE SHOULD DESTROY SUCH CULTS LEGALY.
Ni1234ck 2 years ago
Ni1234ck I didn't mean anything personally about JW's when I called their organisationThe idiot Watchtower Society.
Most JW's are just sincere like the Mormon members.
I was nearly conned into the JW thing as a youth around 20 years ago. I should have known better from that experience. In fact I recognised the same techniques of 'misinformation' and 'deception' being used by the Mormon Church to recruit and maintain its Victims.
If people knew their bible better, the cults would Fail.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
@ElderJoseph
NO PROB. YES MOST OF THEM ARE VERY NICE. IT IS THE GOVERNMENT BODY(THE TOP LEADERS OF THE JWS) WHO (DELIBERATEDLY MISLEADS THE AVERAGE JWS LIKE ME FOR 25 YEARS.
YES THEY WIL PAY.
Ni1234ck 2 years ago
Yes, the Church has gone astray in many instances... but don't let that ruin your own testimoney... we have become institutionalized like other sects... making celestial quality people has been put on the back burner. Day will come when a TRUE Seer and Revelator will come along and put us back in order.
funlds 2 years ago
There will never be any seer and revelator. What you have been sold is the greatest fable of all time and eternity.
monitorpotato 2 years ago
oh so true, i mean, its exactly the same kind of fraud being taught in virtually every fundamentalist christian church in the world. And yet, with them, its the three monkeys, hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Talk about a bunch of brainwashed dillusional people.
mulletthater 2 years ago
''Talk about a bunch of brainwashed dillusional people''
Yes my channel is to save others from being preyed on by such delusional people.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
where did you get this info?, ide talked with so many mormons , and all of them deny everything
Quitenno 2 years ago
Michael Quinn ,committed church member and very committed researcher discovered alot of the information we have today.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
so if become a mormon can i make some money?? how am i get baptize
Quitenno 2 years ago
You won't make money if you become a Mormon. They want to recruit you and take your money from you.
If you don't pay them, their belief is that you will not be with your family together forever and that you will also be 'burned'.
The threats in Mormonism are very serious for non Tithe payers.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
13,508,509 members
265,593 converts baptized in 2008
123,502 new children of record for 2008
2,818 stakes
348 missions
622 districts
28,109 wards and branches
52,494 missionaries serving
Nuff said.
LDSMASON1 2 years ago
That membership figure is BS. many if not most of them are only people who were pressured and fooled into baptism.
They no longer want anything to do with the church. Many in that figure are dead also and they are not removed until age 110 I think it was.
Those missionaries serving are mostly pressured young kids. I met many of them. They know nothing or very little about the church. They only know the SALES patter they have been taught, which is false.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Well there is a long and short answer to this. The short is that not even the apostles nor prophet are paid from tithing funds nor other doations but are supported by revenue from the church owned buisnesses.
If you don't see why that is relevent then there is no use explaining it to you.
If you want to see why the church even own buisnesses just look at their pioneer history.
byuflash2 2 years ago
'but are supported by revenue from the church owned buisnesses. '
Not only are they supported, they seem to be very handsomely remunerated.
The claim of No Paid Clergy by the church is misleading. The church has a history of paying their clergy.
You can twist and rationalise however much you like. JW's claim they don't have paid clergy, then I find out they have members paid an 'allowance' for spending more hours door to door.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
There is a difference between building up Zion, their own city where they were trying to get out of the hands of the world/babylon (gathering and doing biz with each other) and now making big businesses that incorporate gentile and wicked hands as customers. And to become multi-miilionaires while at it is straying WAY FAR FROM LAW OF CONSECRATION. They are filling their own pockets while grinding on the poor.
funlds 2 years ago
Elder Joseph, you were wrong about the name of the church. It is The Church of Brigham Young of Pioneer spirit. Ha ha.
Advice4vice 2 years ago
Yes, you are right. This LDS church is Brigham Youngs Sect. All of Joseph Smith's relatives and all the remaining living Book Of Mormon Witnesses joined James Strang and testified that he was the legitimate successor and holder of the Priesthood Keys from Joseph Smith.
The real followers of Smith, Young and Taylor are the FLDS. Despite the abuse women in polygamy, they are only following all the revelations of these original Mormon Leaders and in the same way, through threats and obedience.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
James Strang claimed to receive a letter from Joseph Smith calling him the next Prophet, which follows the pattern in the D&C. Joseph Smith was called Prophet, seer, revealator, and Translator. Brigham Young told people he wasn't able to translate, while Strang was directed by an angel to a tree, brought witnesses, dug up an ancient record, translated it, and carried it around getting validated by professors of ancient writing.
Advice4vice 2 years ago
Did anyone want to comment on the Paid Clergy issue introduced by the video? The video made a pretty solid argument, but surely some one wants to at least try to defend the church. The video seems pretty accurate as far as I can tell. A true Mormon defender would say most Church Leaders are retired and were already blessed with so much money in their working lives that they turn down the small amount of money offered to help them with living expenses.
Advice4vice 2 years ago
I pity this guy. Does he even have followers or a church building where his members gather for worship? The Mormon church is the only church where you can see where the tithing money goes and put in good use. Unlike this guy who collects tithing money from his followers and put it in his pocket and tells his followers to watch you tube for his sermons because he can't meet them in person for he does not have a building for a formal worship except a horse barn. Elder Joseph where's my tithing?
djjnicko 2 years ago
D&C 84:77-78, 86 and Matt 10:9-10 clarify that Apostles, Missionaries, and Ministers should go with out purse or scrip. Monson, McCraney, and anyone else who receives money for their preaching seem to all get it from donations. The people choose whether or not to donate so it technically isn't a paid ministry. If you eat at a restaurant and don't pay you are stealing. If you don't pay these men you aren't.
Advice4vice 2 years ago
Its a solid argument, if you believe a couple guys that have very strong, biased agendas that having nothing at all to do with stating facts. "The video seems pretty accurate as far as I can tell" How, specifically have you determined that the video is accurate? There is nothing, other than your strong desire to believe it. I am stating right now that pixy fairies and unicorns exist. I have the same amount of proof as shawn mcdoucher. does my statement seem pretty accurate?
mulletthater 2 years ago
mullethater
Your responses are invalid.
We are talking about Michael Quinns research. He was a faithfull church member though an Honest one which is rare.
being honest and staying LDs are incompatible.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Very informative, thanks. Back in the day, as a teenage forced participant, I couldn't help noticing how the higher-ups tended to be affluent. I asked about this and was told that the Lord causes them to prosper so they'll have time to fulfill their responsibilities. Or, he picks them because they've made their money and have more time.
Ya gotta wonder how some of these guys with nine or ten directorships have enough time to do their apostle thing.
regulachick 2 years ago
well, dumb ass elder joseph is at it again. obviously not WORKING but sitting eating bon bon's on the computer he probably stole, not taking his medication, wearing ladies panties. They're all the same.
nurser11 2 years ago
Thanks for the Mormon response. Yopu would make a great LDS Asspostle.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
I won't engage in the insults EJ, but your infatuation with all things Mormon is just proof of its truthfullness. You take every opportunity to insult, demean, and not to mention outright lie, it it suits your purposes. Why the infatuation with Mormonism?
You joined, disagreed and then left... big deal. Now why can't you leave it alone, or better yet spend your life lifting others up rather than tearing down a religion that does so much good in the world.
djwright44 2 years ago
but the actual people that attend church every Sunday do not reflect the same friendliness, they truly believe that everybody who is not white unless they are rich, famous or talented are less than them. the dont have any respect for other churches either, for the catholic church or any other Christian denomination
thetruthquest 2 years ago
Yes, there are some jerks in the lds church....how could I disagree with you?? You are equating personality with a few that you know across an tire worldwide religion, many of whom are poor and humble.
djwright44 2 years ago
i also blame the blacks, Hispanics, Asians, homosexuals and women for lowering themselves and believe such ridiculous teachings, this come to show that the lds church capitalizes and feeds or both white men with supremacist tendencies and members of minority groups that think less of themselves, they should be smart enough to notice the bigotry
thetruthquest 2 years ago
Wow, what a load of crap, I have never seen a better word bending, useing secret combination, mixing truth in with lies manipulator than shawn. But if you go on his web site he will ask you for $1000 a year or just $84 a month to support his cause. Which is his will really? Does anyone really want to support the will of this guy?
marcopolo8765 2 years ago
"Wow, what a load of crap"
What is crap about it ? What is Truth and what is manipulation and how do you know? Have you got information above what Shawn McCraney has? I doubt it very much.
And what is requesting $1000 a year compared with the LDS cult asking for 10% of your money or else you will not only BURN at the saviours coming but will not even be with your fellow obedient money paying family members in CK in the next life.
and Yes I heard all this in church lessons.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Um joe we've heard it all before now for way way to long. hang it up while you have a shread of dignity left will ya
marcopolo8765 2 years ago
" useing secret combination" ??
I think secret combinations is more applicable to the LDs Temple Endowment where members swore an oath not to reveal them outside of that Temple and enacted a throat slitting ritual as to what would happen to them if they did.
and you have the audacity to speak of secret combinations?
How utterly ridiculous.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
Marco, as a believing Latter Day Saint, I have to tell you that you are dead wrong. All you did was deny and declare the information read above to be false, but you don't tell us how you know differently.
These documents are public records.
Our leaders DO live a lavish lifestyle as I can personally attest. Rather than defend this corruption, you might do well to recall the Book of Mormon's warnings about the falling away of the Latter Day Saints in our time.
rockwaterman 2 years ago
lds or Mormon members always like to put me down due to my mixed race. they seem to believe they are better than me because they are pure white. the church basically gives priority to white males, white women, black people, Latin Americans of most races, Asians, Polynesians and even homosexuals are all of a lesser level they would not respect or mingle with other cultures meaningfully, the church tends to use friendly tones when addressing for PR purposes,
thetruthquest 2 years ago
I think mixed people are among the most beautiful people in the world. Lenny Kravitz is on of my favorite artist. Obama is by far my favorite president. My best friend growing up in school A Mestisto. Now for those of you that don't know what that is its halve african and halve spanish. Any by the way my own brother is gay. Love him very much. So again where do get your information from?
marcopolo8765 2 years ago
Oh give it a rest.....what a bigoted statement coming from yourself....you have just made a blanket statement covering all 13 million members. I know MANY mixed race Mormons personally: your statement is absolutely ridiculous.
djwright44 2 years ago
i also know members that are hispanic,mixed race, blacks etc. all of them have to endure humiliations and don't feel equal they are categorized as of a lesser spiritual level for the most, there are some exeptions but those only apply to the ones who have grown up lds and within the same neighborhood. i am not saying lets punish the mormons or lets take away mormons rights or lets take away the mormons right to wed, so i am not using bigoted statements,
thetruthquest 2 years ago
Yes, they are bigoted. You called the entire Mormon church racist.....just because you came across a few bad apples or jerks, you then make a blanket statement for an entire group: that makes your statement bigoted. Note, I did not call you a bigot: that takes a real creep to sink that low, but your statement was bigoted. Again, I know about a dozen mixed race members: its has never even come up in discussion.
djwright44 2 years ago
The church doctrine refers to darkered people as inferior or cursed and as a result it has created a racist culture within the church, i would not say a few rotten apples, i would say lots of rotten apples i don't think i know any mormon who truly respects darker people and all the mixed raced, blacks, hispanics etc.that i know are members feel the exact same way, these people are not against the church neither am i we just dont trust them
i cant imagine if the mormons had their own country
thetruthquest 2 years ago
Well, then you lived a very sheltered existence!!!
Perhaps you could travel to Africa, South and Central America (as I have) and attend LDS congregations. I was the only white face in the room.
djwright44 2 years ago
i dont have to go anywhere i dont have to do anything you say i dont need to your advice, that is not the point of this conversation, the point is the LDS church is obviously a fraud and manipulates its members to the point where they dont think nor reason but just follow what the church say blindly, some members get very defensive when they are asked simple open ended questions and find it necesary to defend themselves in a very arrogant and disrespecful way.
thetruthquest 2 years ago
most people will have a better actitude towards the church if leaders and members were more honest in their answers. what is the point of going to africa or south america to preach the gospel if you are going to put people down and avoid mingling with them as equals,
thetruthquest 2 years ago
We are all God's childrens: all of us are equal. To state that the church teaches otherwise is a flat out lie: to state that you have met some LDS members that are insensitve and rude to you is a personality issue, not a doctrinal issue. This really isn't an argument, because you're basing it on personal experience rather than worldwide Church trends. The worldwide trend shows the exact opposite of your individual experiences.
djwright44 2 years ago
i am not rude to anybody you dont even know me, the church apostles teach now adays in accordance to their PR objectives but in the church itself is completely different the book of mormon refers to a curse race worldwide the exact same doctrine is tought and lived I am not judging on the few. I would like to wrap up this conversaction and I dont want to make it personal we are just discussing some points of view,
thetruthquest 2 years ago
Agreed: if I have I offended you, that was not my intent. My conclusion to our discussion is simply this: you have given blanket statements about our church that is has racist undertones. I couldn't disagree more as I have travelled many places and seen so many, many people of colour in the world that accept Christ as their Savior and Joseph Smith as the prophet of the restoration.
djwright44 2 years ago
is not a blanket statement i am being speciific and i dont care how much have you travelled, the fact is the church teaches that and members believe it, you are just in denial and dont want to accept the truth, because you were brainwash to defend the church no matter what, this sort of behavior leads people to become radical you can keep denying as much as you want, you know wishful thinking
thetruthquest 2 years ago