Science: Alexandra Morton's Salmon Fight

[Folkboat11]

It is a good thing " Vivian Krause' is in to research. Look for her interviews on Youtube. American foundations have payed over $90 million to promote so called wild Alaskan over farmed. Millions of that money went to so-called grassroots protests in western Canada. Why didn't these foundations put any money to enviromental action in the Gulf of Mexico, on the eastren seaboard or the Alaskan coast? Perhaps American born Morton may have been better off watching her own waters.

[9george2x]

Volk boat.

You are switching bait here. We were discussing whether there is salmon farming in Alaska. You never provided a cite that there is net pen raised salmon in Alaska for 12 months. Isn't.

Now you switch to whether aquaculture is bad. I prefer scientific citations. The Anchorage Daily News does not fact check many of their stories I have read.

This is not to say aquaculture is problem free. But no one before has tried to prove that salmon aqua. is bad for wild salmon. Give me details.

[Folkboat11]

@9george2x Is the Alaska so called wild fishery any better? Now I may know why you have to bash salmon farming. Is it to hide you Alaska farmed salmon? Want Wild? Alaska Seafood Processing creates dead zones

September 28, 2011

Trident Seafoods Corp. to Pay $2.5 Million to Resolve Clean Water Act Violations and Spend More Than $30 Million to Upgrade Processing PlantsSettlement to reduce discharges of seafood... They should have followed Canada's strict regulations long ago.

[9george2x]

I hate to tell you this Volkboat but you do not know what you are talking about and are mixed up about what aquaculture and salmon farming are.

Just because the fry are raised in a hatchery does not mean they are held in net pens. You have provided no reference about your claim they spend a year in a net pen. The obvious reason is it is a figment of your imagination and there is no documentation for something that does not exist.

Aquaculture salmon go to sea, not living in a pen.

[Folkboat11]

@9george2x Its obvious you do not know how to Google "Alaska Salmon Ranching". When you do learn how to google check out Anchorage Daily News,

"Are hatchery salmon killing off herring in Prince William Sound?"

"Aquaculture salmon go to sea, not living in a pen" may not be such a good thing.

[9george2x]

to schmarly2007

no one in Alaska says "ranch salmon" so define ranch.

There are aquaculture sites that release the salmon into the wild. They live outside of nets from the spring until the fall of the year when they return.

This is a far far cry from farming in net pens.

hope you understand THERE ARE NO SALMON FARMS IN ALASKA

[Folkboat11]

@9george2x Back to shouting to be heard I see. Aquaculture is just that. Culture = Farming. And yes Alaska does hold salmon in open net pens for up to 12 months. Tell the buyers of Alaska salmon the truth. 41% of Alaska salmon are cultured. Once again Google "Alaska Salmon Ranching".

[9george2x]

Volkboat

How do you shout when you are typing? I am confused.

They do not hold hatchery fish in Alaska in net pens for 12 months. I think you are under the wrong impression. I've spent a lot of time in Alaska on the water and never saw what you are talking about.

Please provide a citation for that

[9george2x]

THE PLASTIC TRAYS STAY INSIDE HATCHERIES ON LAND. THEY ARE AQUACULTURE WHICH HAS ITS OWN SET OF ISSUES, BUT IT IS NOT A SEA LICE ISSUE. THERE ARE NO SALT WATER PENS IN ALASKA. IT IS BANED BY LAW

[Folkboat11]

@9george2x Then why do they hold their plastic tray factory farmed salmon in open net pens for up to 12 months if you say farming is baned by law in Alaska. Looks like a B.S. sales gimick to suck in the consumer that they are buying wild salmon. The consumers has a 41% chance they are buying a farmed salmon from Alaska. PS, Realy no need to shout. It only shows you are a angry person.

[9george2x]

alaska does not allow salmon farming. it is banned.

[Folkboat11]

@9george2x Then what do you call growing 1.5 billion salmon a year in plastic trays, holding them in net pens for up to 12 months, and feeding them pellet feed? Looks like Alaska farms to me.

[Folkboat11]

In 2008, the Alaska Department of Fish and Game reported that 146 million salmon were commercially harvested. Of this, 60 million salmon were identified as farmed. Therefore, in 2008, ocean ranched salmon represented over 41% of the commercial catch in Alaska.

[Alaskrab]

And in response, to a comment I saw way back there on "Salmon Ranching" in Alaska. Alaska doesn't allow fish farms in their waters. Yes, there is a very strong hatchery program in Southeast Alaska and Prince William Sound, but they're raising a fish that are native to the region (not Atlantics), i.e. pinks, sockeye, and coho. While I have some problems with the hatchery program, they have definitely done more good than bad - and there's loads of facts to back these statements up.

[Folkboat11]

@Alaskrab Science has shown individual instincts, adaptations and genetics specific to your area and others have been lost, replaced by hatchery programs producing generation after generation of a homogeneous "perfect fish" that has reduced the diversity salmon need to survive. They spawn in the wild producing weak genetics. Not good for the wild salmon many think.

[Alaskrab]

In many instances, the eggs are being taken from wild stocks in order to keep genetics strong. So, that argument is only about half true. But I do agree that in some instances the hatcheries are essentially breeding out true wild genetics. However, the hatchery program has helped maintain a very healthy seafood industry, strong local economies, and much healthier ecosystem than what we have left in BC.

[Alaskrab]

If the DFO spent more time, money, and energy on wild salmon enhancement, like habitat restoration, hatcheries, and getting fish farms off of salmon migration routes and into closed containment, there would be a much higher number of jobs for fishermen, packers, processors, and all sectors of the marine industry than the meager 1200 or so jobs that the fish farming industry provides - not to say that they aren't important.

[Folkboat11]

@Alaskrab Watch "PBS running the gauntlet" Runs of salmon are now conceived in laboratories, raised in tanks, and farmed in pens, then released into the wild.

[Alaskrab]

I agree with what they're saying in that film. The way that things were implemented in Oregon and Washington are sad, and haven't really worked out so well. But Alaska is a different story.

[Folkboat11]

@Alaskrab How is it different? Do you not conceive your salmon in laboratories, raise in tanks, and farmed in pens for up to 12 months, fed pellets, then released into the wild, and get a 10% return.

[Alaskrab]

Like I said before, Alaska uses wild stocks, not Atlantic Salmon. Alaska gets much higher than a 10% return on hatchery fish as well. Also, I want to point out that its not all of Alaska, its mainly Southeast and Prince William Sound that are majority hatchery fish - but we've been through this before. I know I'm not going to convince any of you pro fish farm guys, but I think that the sheer numbers of wild fish spawning in Alaska's rivers are a solid indication that something is working.

[Folkboat11]

@Alaskrab Yes it looks like 2011 will be a solid season for you from what "The Truth About Alaska Salmon" site says. As far as "solid indication that something is working". I think not. "Frankenfish is scaring the bejesus out of Alaska’s accountants". The latest ‘threat’ to Alaska is genetically modified salmon. Apparently Alaska, “supplements” their annual catch with aquaculture salmon (with associated environmental impacts), believes they alone should own the salmon market.

[Alaskrab]

You would be better off trying to protect the fish farming industry rather than trashing on Alaska's salmon industry. I agree that there are issues, but I've looked into the websites and sources that you cite your information coming from, and these sites appear to be fabricating numbers. Sorry man, but I don't really think you have a pot to piss in on this one. That being said, I'm glad that you are a concerned consumer and that you care about salmon, farmed, ranched, wild, whatever.

[Folkboat11]

@Alaskrab I agree with you. I am doing the same as you while showing the consumer there is more to Alaska salmon farming than is let out. Be happy you farm and have a job. I started out at you because you were bashing farming in BC. Perhaps You would be better off trying to protect your fish farming industry in Alaska rather than trashing on B.C's salmon industry.

[Folkboat11]

@Alaskrab and here is one from the Financial Post. "U.S. foundation pours millions into campaign against fish farming, to the benefit of Alaska’s ‘ranched’ salmon". Alaska Farms Salmon? "opinion.financialpost.push-ag­ainst-b-c-salmon". Looks like Alaska plays a little on the dirty side to keep the price up to the consumer. I do not want to pay more for farmed salmon just because the salmon in the store is from Alaska.

[Alaskrab]

Well my friend, I suggest you educate yourself as a consumer. Unless you're buying canned pink salmon, it probably wasn't from a hatchery. In fact, if its coho, chinook, or sockeye, there's a 90% chance that it was 100% WILD fish. And just so you know, canned pink salmon is a hell of a lot cheaper than farmed Atlantic Salmon...

[Folkboat11]

@Alaskrab I suggest you educate yourself about Alaska farming. "state.ak.us" would be a good start. 380,000 sockeye where hatched and raised in net pens, while 1,060,000 coho were raised in 2007 in just 2 hatcheries alone. Your dream of "if its coho, chinook, or sockeye, there's a 90% chance that it was 100% WILD fish", is just that, a dream. To bad the consumer would have to be asleep to beleive it.

[Alaskrab]

You're looking at a hatchery numbers for a small part of Alaska. Your comments are incorrect and out of context.

[Folkboat11]

@Alaskrab You are correct. This is just a small part of Alaska. Just think what the numbers would be if I added in all the hatcheries alaska has. I am sure the consumer would think your comments are incorrect and out of context. 90% chance that it was 100% WILD fish. In your dreams.

[Alaskrab]

@Folkboat11 You're a funny guy. Misguided, but funny. Anyhow, good luck with your BC fish farming, I hope you guys can figure out a way to make it work and keep our waters as pristine and productive as Aalska's still are. GO WILD!

[Folkboat11]

@Alaskrab Thank you Alaskrab:) I am not sure how I would be misguided by your own Alaska salmon farming stat web site, with farming stats for many years. Should I trust them? 41% farmed in your so called wild catch does not sound "GO WILD!" to me. 1.5 billion farmed salmon a year from Alaska does not sound like "GO WILD!" Do you trust the stats Alaska puts out? They are there in black and white for the consumer.

[Alaskrab]

Alaska doesn't even harvest 1.5 billion salmon a year for one...Like we've all told you many times before, farming Atlantic salmon in an area where most of its residents prefer to see the fish farms go, and raising hatchery fish to increase natural productivity of native stocks, providing whole communities with jobs, and supplying millions of people with good food is another story. If fish farming in BC could be done properly, then great. But quit bitching about Alaska's success, its pointless.

[Folkboat11]

@Alaskrab You are correct again. You dont "harvest 1.5 billion salmon a year". You farm up to 1.5 billion salmon a year in Alaska and get about a 10% return on them. The U.S. and Canada were actively introducing millions of Atlantic salmon since the early 1900's to about the 1980's in streams and rivers for the purpose of sport fly fishing. No runs became of it. Science and data has shown this. We supply year around fresh salmon with full time work. 80% of our salmon goes to the U.S. OUCH. :)

[Alaskrab]

You can send 100% of that mushy crap to the US if you want, but people still prefer Wild Alaskan Salmon. And that's great that you supply year round work for 1200 or so people. The Alaskan Salmon Industry provides tens of thousands of jobs...Anyhow, good luck with everything, I hope that the salmon farming industry can continue to provide a living for you and our waters here in BC can stay somewhat clean and naturally productive.

[Alaskrab]

the Alaska Department of Fish and Game's website states, in black and white, in their annual reports and forecasts that about a quarter of Alaska's total catch are hatchery production fish (Pinks). The rest are natural production. Read em and weep. Nice campaign of misinformation.

[Folkboat11]

@Alaskrab According to 2010 in-season estimates PWSAC salmon accounted for 72 percent of the ex-vessel value of the Sound’s common property salmon fisheries.

• According to preliminary 2009 data PWSAC salmon accounted for 64 percent of the ex-vessel value of the Sound’s common property salmon fisheries.

• Nearly 51 million PWSAC salmon were harvested in the Sound’s common property salmon fishery in 2010. Wild eh.

[Alaskrab]

Prince William Sound. Like I've said before. An extremely small part of Alaska's fisheries. Look at a map dipshit.

[Folkboat11]

@Alaskrab Oh my. Did somebody get up on the wrong side of the bed and have some funny tasting cornflakes this morning? We have had this discussion before. I have found hatcheries where you have said there are none. You have hatchery farms all over Alaska, not just in Prince William Sound. Why not just be happy Alaska farms salmon and you have a job catching them.

[Alaskrab]

You guys like a bunch of school kids. I think one of the reasons people are getting so fed up with the salmon farming industry in BC is because of how rude and arrogant the pro fish farming folks are. You guys have some really good points, but when its all said and done, fish farming just isn't healthy for our natural environment. I don't see why the salmon farming industry doesn't just start moving towards closed containment systems.

[Folkboat11]

@Alaskrab We are very familiar with the latest recirculating aquaculture systems technology, as we use them in our land-based hatcheries to grow salmon to smolt size before entering them into the ocean as Alaska does. We know its limitations, and it is not feasible to use this technology at this time to grow fish to market size. Perhaps Alaska will lead the way.

[Folkboat11]

If Alex Morton new her science, she would not have to use circus act mud throwing campaign's to get attention.

[Alaskrab]

@Folkboat11 nice spelling

[klicky2]

Hmmm? I wonder who pays Morton to come up with this bs.

[spencSNC]

Alexandra Morton isn't a scientist...She's a journalist, a dam good one at that. Despite of the actual facts she is able to hid them from the media and manage to convince people that salmon aquaculture is killing the wild salmon and is unhealthy.

[nuffzed]

@Folkboat11 let's remember that if you eat the same amount of sick farmed salmon as you eat sick farmed chicken, beef, pork, etc, your PCB intake will go through the roof.

With the numbers game you play you should start up a fast food restaurant and see how many farmed salmon burgers you sell. You could put McDonald's, Wendy's, A&W, Burger King and all the rest out of business.....in your dreams.

[Folkboat11]

@nuffzed Parroting the same old miss-information I see.

[Folkboat11]

@nuffzed The average yearly per capita intake of PCBs has been estimated to be about 30 nanograms from farmed salmon, 199 from pork, 306 from milk, 716 from poultry, and 2,401 from beef. When it comes to mercury, wild Alaskan halibut contains about 25 times as much as farmed salmon and tuna contains about 33 times as much! So if farmed salmon isn't high in contaminants, why do environmental organizations say that it is?

[houseofinvention]

Wow what a lot of fish farm troll comments. Worried aren?t you guys. Yep, the gig is up. We're on to you. And we are taking a stand for WILD SALMON.

[Folkboat11]

@houseofinvention Is name calling the best you can do? And just what "wild salmon" are you talking about?

[houseofinvention]

Wow what a lot of fish farm trolls

[AquacultureAwareness]

It's now 2010!!!

We have an update for you...and it's going to blow you away. Click on our name and see what's really happened to wild salmon since you posted this video on salmon farming and Alexandra Morton.

"Facts are stubborn things"

[nuffzed]

@Folkboat11. Don't feed farmed salmon to any living thing you care about. I wouldn't feed farmed salmon to a stray dog. Farmed salmon, 100% of them, spend their adult lives in net pens being dosed with pesticides and antibiotics. Why eat that crap?

[Folkboat11]

@nuffzed lets not forget. . The average yearly per capita intake of PCBs has been estimated to be about 30 nanograms from farmed salmon, 199 from pork, 306 from milk, 716 from poultry, and 2,401 from beef. When it comes to mercury, wild Alaskan halibut contains about 25 times as much as farmed salmon and tuna contains about 33 times as much! So if farmed salmon isn't high in contaminants, why do environmental organizations say that it is?

[nuffzed]

Eating farmed salmon is a fools game no matter how cheap it is. Eat wild salmon if you want to stay healthy. Avoid food "products" that come with antibiotics, dyes, pesticides, growth hormones and genetic modification. If you're an adult you're free to eat whatever garbage turns you on, but show some responsibility by not feeding junk food to your children.

[Folkboat11]

@nuffzed Millions of Alaska hatchery salmon were fed food contaminated with the same substance behind a massive pet food recall across the country. The melamine-infused fish feed. The fish pellets were not recalled and all fed out. These Alaska factory hatchery farmed salmon were then released into the wild. Does Alaska test their salmon prior to market? We Do.

[Folkboat11]

@nuffzed Don't eat or buy Alaska wild salmon. Up to 41% of the salmon that Alaska exports has been raised in plastic trays, fed pellets, held in open net pens for up to 12 months, then released into the wild. Alaska farms up to 1.5 billion salmon each year to sustain their fake wild salmon fishery.

[schmarly2007]

UPDATE!!!!! (it's 2010). Now we have record returns of sockeye salmon in British Columbia. Great pink salmon and chinook salmon too.

So, it's clear this "scare" was a trumped up tactic to try to scare the consumer away from a healthy food source - farm-raised salmon.

So, how about the NYT report on the fact that her story is nonsense. Come on, I dare you. Really....dare you.

[nuffzed]

@Folkboat11...Listen to yourself. You're ridiculous. I have no more time to waste on you.

[Folkboat11]

@nuffzed I am waiting to hear from Morton on the devastation of BC's bumber returns of wild salmon this summer. For a self trained biologist, She may want to head back for some prep school. What do you think about this Nuff?

[Folkboat11]

@nuffzed Miss Morton said pink salmon will go "extinct"  They didn't. She said Atlantic salmon will decimate wild spawning grounds. They havent. She says BC salmon farmers are Norwegian. They're not. Does she ever get it right? You bet, when she said.

"I don't have a great set of credentials."

[nuffzed]

@Folkboat11....Morton's got an honourary degree and her research is peer reviewed.

You've got a habit of posting assinine messages that even you're not stupid enough to believe.

[Folkboat11]

@nuffzed As a Salmon Farmer and proud of it, I can tell the difference between fact and fiction nuffzed. If you people had any science to stand on, you would not have to call comments "assinine". Typical of table bangers and sheep although.

[fleetyabas]

Goods news!! Closed containment Pacific salmon farming is moving ahead, and sooner better than later open net farming of Atlantic salmon in the Pacific Ocean will be history. They were breeding centres for sea lice anyway so good riddance.

[Folkboat11]

@fleetyabas I can see this slowly happening, but for the present time it makes as much sense as growing cattle on water. I have de-liced cattle in my days but never had to worry about my farmed salmon in the area that I am in. I like how you said "They WERE breeding centres for sea lice anyway so good riddance"

[fleetyabas]

@Folkboat11.... I like looking forward to the day that open net salmon farms in the Pacific that grow lousy Atlantic salmon will no longer exist, and will be remembered for being sea lice breeding centres. If only I'd known your area was in the Sea of Tranquility....

Congratulations to Dr. Alexandra Morton on receiving an honourary doctorate from SFU for her research into sea lice and salmon farms.

[Folkboat11]

@fleetyabas Don't dislocate your shoulder banging that table fleetyabas. I cant take flawed studies from a self trained biologist with merely a honorary doctorate serious. You may want to get with the times. There is no proof that salmon farms harm wild salmon. Only side show circus acts say they are.

[Folkboat11]

The comment at the start says it all. "self trained biologist"

[Folkboat11]

After many years of salmon farming fleetyabas I have never had to use SLICE. So why should i get excited about it. The high return of the pinks have nothing to do with the lice fairytale. That mith was busted long ago. The ranched salmon from Alaska btw are raised in plastic trays, fed pellets (same as farmed) kept in open net pens for up to 12 months, vaccinated, and dumped into the pacific. Its great to see the wild pink win for a change.

[fleetyabas]

Those fat and happy pink salmon came back in huge numbers thanks to SLICE, the sea louse pesticide used by fish farms to treat their caged 'product'.

But don't get too excited about SLICE as the sea lice are building up an immunity to it as we chat.

And let's have a moment of silence for all those poor ranched salmon from Alaska that starved to death trying to compete in the open ocean with the pink hordes from the south.

[Folkboat11]

It seems to me that Morton's American funders do not want her to say anything about Alaska dumping billions of hatchery raised, open net pen pellet fed salmon into the pacific that our wild salmon from BC have to compete for a food source with. I am sure her story would change if Canada funded her more than the US does.

[schmarly2007]

Ohhh, you almost had me until the last sentence - "buy wild salmon". Now I know what the purpose of this story was!!!

Shame on you NYT (for being so obvious that this was just a paid ad for "wild salmon fisheries")!!!!!!

Eat wild = saving them?? That's real smart. Geezuz.

[schmarly2007]

UPDATE!!!!! - pink salmon returned in record #s in 2009!!!!! So the "science" of wild salmon extinction didn't quite pan out - shouldn't NYT report on this?

BTW, that black bear is in excellent shape - the narration doesn't match the images.

Also, Alaska happily ranches salmon, so saying that salmon farming is "outlawed" is a bit of a stretch.

Me thinks this woman may be lying, just a hunch. Makes a good story though - even if it is full of crap.

[fleetyabas]

@Garrys300.... For Black bears that habituate the coast and are reared on salmon from infancy, salmon is a major part of their diet and means of survival. Maybe when they start using email they can exchange dinner recipes with their cousins in the praire provinces.

[Christinecedar]

We all need the wild salmon to return.

[TheMyfancypants]

ms morton continually claims salmon are endangered yet she enlists the support of sports fishing guides who advertise prolific salmon fishing coast wide. Somewhat hypocritical isn't it ? She also endeavours through her use of natives in her videos that she has the support of natives 100% which she doesn't . many natives are employed in the industry and support it fully. Her video claiming bears are starving because they were eating berries and grass is bs. They are omnivores. Some biologist.

[Garrys300]

I was with it sort off neutral until the bullshit about the bear .........Ive worked in the woods most of my life....black bears DO NOT need salmon to survive, there are no salmon in Alberta ,sask .man. etc..and the bears are very prolific...this woman is so full of shit

[TheGardenmaker]

Thanks garry for telling the truth and exposing just one of her many lies

[TheMyfancypants]

The killer whales have not vanished. That is a lie. Some pods are transiet and some are homebodies.Some move throughout the coast over the year and naturally follow food sources as they have done for centuries. if they've disappeared as claimed how come there are whale watching tours from one end of the island to the other ??

[TheMyfancypants]

Key word Self trained. Reading books does not a legitimate biologist make

[bimmjim]

Again we see that Alaska takes care of their salmon better than B.C. Hey, my fellow B.C.ers, why don't we learn from Alaska. Also I study hydrology as it relates to salmon and drinking water. I have found that the hydrology that is done in B.C. by the M of Forestry is bad science. I study hydrology from Washington and Oregon states because it is better science. Check out the hot link under the avatar on my youtube page.

[Dingdong045]

ANY GUYS UP?

lovin this video!! leave me a comment j8

[SommerFilms]

Thanks for this video report.