I can see Rich-Rod going to a program that is a perennial underacheiver...a place like Clemson or Pitt, and doing really well. His system works..he just didnt forget how to coach all of a sudden. Wrong kind of guy, at the wrong school
Rich Rod needs to go now. Next season will probably be another 7-5 season. Poor player development on defense. Michigan needs to get Jim Harbaugh or Brady Hoke.
I'm amazed at how many uneducated football 'fans' still think the zone read is a gimmick. It's no more of a gimmick than the triple option was... you know, that offense that dominated college football for several decades before the pro style offense got hot.
And now, the spread is catching fire in the NFL... so what does that tell you? probably nothing if you're one of the afore mentioned idiots.
@InRichRodWeTrust you just can't handle the fact someone has a different opinion. I can see Jim Harbaugh or Brady Hoke as the coach next season. Hoke would be good but I would rather have Jim Harbaugh.
If Rich Rodriguez comes back I hope he does well. However, next season will probably be another 7-5 season. Who do you see Michigan beating next season?
@InRichRodWeTrust If Michigan keeps Rodriguez who do you see them beating next season? Will you be mad if they fire him and hire either Jim Harbaugh or Brady Hoke?
@InRichRodWeTrust do you see Rich Rod around for next season? I have a feeling he will be gone. It will be either Jim Harbaugh or Brady Hoke. I could see Rich Rod ending up at Pitt or Clemson.
Bgreer84 couldn't be any more wrong. the spread offense is not a "gimmick" or a "trick play" it's a basic zone read play. so you're going to load 8 in the box? well you're a moron then, whose going to cover the 3/4 wide set? you're going to blitz? they'll throw hot, prevent? not going to stop reading the end and handing it off. the spread zone read make you run against 6 man fronts depending on your formation. you should probably learn what you're talking about before posting.
The Spread option is basically one play. It's one play with 4 options. Well, if by some chance the option isnt working you can always go to pro style. This is why its important to have a QB who can throw. As I stated earlier this is the offenses only drawback. When Pat White went down WVU lost to a bad Pitt team. When he was in, they were unbeatable. Teams must recruit and maintain two good QB's in the SO. Michigan is doing this now.
You are completely correct. You are entitled to your opinions. No matter how stupid or unfounded they may be. I am also entitled to shread said stupid opinions to pieces with facts. See how that works? In the future, the spread option will become so standard like many teams will be able to figure formations to slow it. However, as I stated earlier the spread allows for normal pro style offense. Traps, draws, bubble screens, etc are all part of the spread option.
No, winning at two different programs and taking an undersized, lowly recruited smaller school to bigtime BCS games and winning is what made RichRod a top 10 coach in College Football and highly sought after (Alabama ring a bell).
I have showed you already how the spread is probably the most balanced offense their is. Utah and Florida under Meyer was nearly 50/50 pass to run. WVU and now Mich are showing those same numbers. It also allows for clock management. The Spurrier spread was a pass happy attack that struggled when the run was needed. The spread option solves that.
But you referred to the wish bone and run and shoot as sold, good offenses that keep teams off balance, while referring to the spread option as a gimmick. Doesnt make much sense for a "gimmick" to be run by the top schools in the nation, while good, solid, and efficient offenses to be discarded. Why would they do that?
WTF!!! Ohio State has had terrific recruiting classes for decades. Notre Dame...NOTRE DAME!!!!! Are you kidding me! The top schools in the Big ten have had great success recruiting for a very very long time. The problem was stagnant coaching (Carr, Tiller, Alvarez, etc) and that same 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense. Now that they are lossening things up a bit you should start seeing more success. Recruiting was not the issue.
LMFAO, listen to this stupidity!! They only go after "rich white kids". LMFAO, does Terrelle Pryor and Denard robinson look like the Hansons to you? The Big midwest teams have recruited in the south like crazy for years. Look at Michigans pipeline thru Texas alone?
Anthony Carter was from Florida. No one has imporved their recruiting. It's been strong for a long time. YOu are not showing any facts to back up your claims as well. Your argument has become more and more comical.
You clearly either don't understand, or do not follow recruiting classes. Scout and Rivals makes it easy nowadays. The Midwest doesn't suffer in recruiting one bit. In fact, a team like Michigan has long been known (as has ND) as a school who gets its talent from all over. The Big 10 was marred with substandard coaches (Carr, sorry to say) and slightly less than spectacular recruiting classes. The Big 10 although crap, does seem to be heading in the right direction.
Not only was I not showing Big Ten bias, I thought I was actually knocking them. Also, what do you call OSU in title games? I would certainly call that a sniff.
You are double talking like crazy now. You say the spread option is a gimmick but acknowledge the Big 10 falls behind due to its lack of the spread option.
Who cares about the Big 10. We are talking about the spread option here. I have proven over and over again that is it the top offense run now in the nation. Major schools drowning in complacency are rushing to find the right coaches for it. The fact the WVU was even playing in BCS games with their small school and mediocre recruiting classes shows RichRod to be at worst an excellent coach. You aren't looking at the big picture. You want to be right, but you can't be.
How many top 25 teams run the wishbone or run and shoot? Answer = zero
Fewer and fewer teams are using the West Coast Offense. Also, the term pro style offense changes over time. Most pro style teams implement many spread offense formations. This was never about the Big 10's success. You seem to have run out of an argument and are now are attacking the Big 10. Good, that actually proves a point. The Big 10 knows it lacks, which is why its trying to catch up to the spread option.
RichRod went to some small school and turned them into a winner. He then went to WVU and did the same. It now appears he has breathed some life into a very stagnant program at Michigan. Michigan was able to get top 15 recruiting classes just on name alone, but they still lost 3-5 games a season. The spread option should prevent collapses against weaker teams and bowl game embarrasments. Look for Michigan to be a serious BCS champion contender in a year or two.
Again, it sounds to me you are throwing out the chessiest arguments that can be easily refuted. Sounds like you are just unwilling to admit the spread option is a very exciting, puposeful offense.
Of course not every team will have success. Just like every pro team or pro style college team doesnt have success. But this is what we know about the spread option
Then how have teams like Notre Dame, OSU, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska and etc gotten great talent over the years. recruiting the spread doesnt' hurt at all. How does having a spread option hurt in recruiting defensive players, RB's, TE, etc?
Systems have always been big in College. Look at Andre Ware. He was one of many players helped by a system. So that works both ways. So far, Michigan has had two of their best recruiting classes in a while since RichRod came over.
The reason Bigten teams are turning to the spread cuz they are losing players and getting killed in bowl games. Even OSU with its near NFL caliber talent pool was losing to spread option teams in the big game. Whatta ya know. they go after Pryor like a maddog.
Big ten teams will be overmatched against the spread is because they lost out on all the talent. Remember when no matter what, Michigan was guaranteed the best OL? That doesnt happen anymore. You gotta win asystem for system.
Once again, the spread option cares little about the NFL. I highly doubt that Urban Meyer was thinking, wow, I know we are playing for a national championship right now, but I sure wish the NFL liked us more. LoL
In fact, only the QB position in the spread option is the only one that would be a change to the NFL. RB's, TE, lineman, linebackers, etc would be no different. Remember the wishbone, that non-gimmick offense you spoke of? Their QB's couldnt play pro-ball either. Who cares?
Of course the spread isn't the option to everyones offensive woes. College football will always come down to two things.
1. Good coaching
2. Good recruiting
Clearly a MAC team has little chance of beating an SEC team regardless of system or style.
However, a SEC team with excellent recruits and an excellent coach (Florida) can implement the Spread option and get the right players and become a very dangerous team.
Watch NFL games now compared to even 4 years ago... More and more teams are going shotgun on 1st and second down with 4 wide... If you have the talent this offense just makes sense... Defenses are just too big and fast to run straight at them and use west coast run after the catch or simple slant routs... Yes those still work, but spreading ProBowl linebackers and safetys east and west beats them just sitting wating to react when they can run 4.5 40s and bench 225 28 times.
Wake up everyone with the exception of SeanP... True the Spread does work well if you are lacking in talent, but it works too perfection if you have talent and the right talent mainly speed even on your offensive line... Florida is unbeatable this year and USC runs a more old school prostyle offense, but I will take Florida everyday almost every year over USC with todays fast defenses... Its only a matter of time before NFL teams are not just using wildcat but true spreads..
Im sorry, as you comparing Virginia Tech with its top 15 recruiting classes to Cincinnati? Also, having a great defense means = great defense wins nearly all the time against any system. Problem is, is very few teams have a great defense.
P.S Chad Henne is a back-up as many many pro style QB's in the league. NFL success has nothing to do with it, we are talking College here.
This is beyond stupid. Teams all over the nation are rushing to get the spread option implemented. I mean Michigan went to it, and Ohio State recruited the top Spread option QB ever. That speaks volumes. A lazy offense???? Compared to what, 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Keep watching football young man and you will learn whats really going on on the field.
Watch video of Mich/ND. A still very inexperienced Mich team with a true frosh QB ran all over ND. Mich still used many traditional Pro-style plays. Off-tackle to Brandon Minor and three step drop passes, etc. The spread option allows for a team to morph from one style to the next.
The biggest problem I have with the spread option is that the QB is so important (see Mich 08 season). If he is no good, the team suffers greatly. that's why its important to keep a good backup in the wings.
I agree with all your statements on the spread my friend... People are just living in the past... Having a bad QB can really kill u with a spread, but having a good one can make you have instant offense. The NFL is already implementing forms of the spread.. AKA Wild Cat, 4 to 5 wideouts sometimes even on first downs... Alot more shotgun formations..
You are just being stubborn now saying that the spread has nothing to offer long term.. Vince Young was a spread-option QB, as was Pat White, Alex Smith, Terelle Pryor is as well. All these big name schools are rushing to change to the spread-option. Several national championships, top NFL talent and BCS bowl wins later people still wanna say its no good. Paul Johnson used the triple-option (very similar to the SO) at Navy and made them a winner...NAVY for petes sake. Now hes at GT.
First off, no one creates an offense with "limited success" in mind. I think you are confusing the spread offenses of the 90's with the new spread-option that we have now.
Saying their is only 4 options on the spread is like saying their is only 2 options in Pro-set, run or pass. Half of all teams in College use a 3-4 defense every Saturday, yet few can stop the spread-option if any. The spread option uses runs and passes evenly and also takes up a lot of the clock. It's perfect.
Also, not only would I not fire RichRod for (hard not to laugh here) Herm Edwards, but Mich will easily be a feared team very very soon (they kinda almost are already). RichRod took WVU to BCS games against powerhouses and won. He also did it with recruits that Mich routinely doesnt even give offers to.
Mich is currently #3 in NCAA in rushing. This is with 2 true freshman. Imagine where they will be in a season or two?
But that's simply not true. Florida crushed College Football with it's spread offense and made Urban Meyer a household name. Utah has had unprecendeted success with the spread. I mean how any people talked about Utah football in the past? I see no top 25 colleges running the run and shoot and wishbone. If it was so "proven" then why are teams avoiding it?
Look at WVU under RichRod. With average College talent they were able to not only play but beat Georgia and OK in bowl games.
I find it hard to believe someone would praise the wisbone, but would call the spread a "trick-play offense". Utah under Urban Meyer had a bout 50/50 run plays to pass plays. They got Alex Smith the #1 overall pick in NFL. The wishbone which used 4 running backs and overpowered weak Big 12 teams was the poster child of a gimmick offense. The run and shoot last saw success with David Klingler.
#4 Ryan Mallet and Sam Mcguffie openly talked about transferring even before Carr announced his retirement. Both players came to Mich uncertain if they made the right choice.
#5. If the spread is such a gimmick and on its way out then why are so many spread teams so succesful? The wishbone, the run and shoot are gimmicks. The spread is a specific offensive stlye that allows for multiple options. At times it resembles the wishbone, at other times it looks like Pro-set.
So far Michigan is off to a good start. The offense looks night and day compared to last year.
Forcier has played great so far. He should be good for quite a while. He reminds me of Colt McCoy and Troy Smith.
I think Rich Rod could have adjusted the system to Mallet because when he was the offensive cordinator at Tulane he threw the ball a lot. Shaun King threw for 3,500 yds.
When a new coach comes in he needs time to get his type of players. Rodriguez had a very good 09 class. He is off to a good start with the 2010 class. More college teams are running the spread.
In order to be successful in college football you have to recruit nation wide.
Big Ten teams have gotten dominated in the bowl games the past couple of years. Quite a few teams that beat the Big Ten in the bowls ran the spread. Penn State runs the spread and it has worked well for them.
The Big Ten does not lack the speed at the skill positions vs the other conferences. Where the Big Ten lacks the speed is on the offensensive and defensive lines.
If you look at the last Rose Bowl Michigan played in they got out coached. USC made adjustments and Michigan did not. USC blitzed Michigan everytime on 3rd down. When Michigan did make an adjustment it was to late.
#1. Playing "Michigan football" is whay got them in this mess. The Pro-set had run its course at Michigan and was no longer successful even with excellent recruits.
#2. RichRod is scaring no one away. In fact, he has had 2 excellent recruiting classes in a row and well on his way to a 3rd. (note: Devin Gardner is #1 DT QB in nation).
#3. Who cares if they spread doesnt fare well in the NFL. Most players are out of the NFL in 3 years or less regardless of system.
1st off....the michigan m will sell its self...he'll get top prospects....second none of those players were forced out, mallet left after rich rod told him they could work the offense around him....that being said ...the jury is no doubt out on mr rich rod still......
I am a michigan fan, but i still think it was a better decision. For the same reason why it'll be good for anyone to come to michigan now... Mike Barwis, strength and conditioning extraordinare.
your a dumb ass cuz michigans gonna romp the buckeyes as soon as they learn the spread. so yea terrel pryor is gonna rgret not going to michigan because hes never gonna throw for 3000 yards as long as he stays at OSU
of course recievers,linemen, and backs can make easy transitions to pro-style offenses, they almost never have to change their playing style. QB's however have to adjust to taking many more snaps under center then they're used to and 9/10 that is too sharp a sharp learning curve. the WILDCAT formation will fizzle out in the NFL almost as suddenly as the dolphins success with it...once teams have gotten used to seeing it then it will be stopped. oh yea...didn't they lose to the texans?
Spread WRs and RBs do just fine in the NFL and a good OL is a good OL. Also, Dolphins are having some success with it too. The offense puts you in space and requires better schemes and athletes when run well.
Pat White...he'll never be a successful NFL quarterback...and that's all that really matters unless you really like watching kids play. I'll watch my own kids play...why would I want to watch someone else's kids play? BTW, Pat White is getting his rear-end kicked all over the field as I type this post. The spread offense is terminal football...few athletes who have serious ambitions about playing in the NFL will join a college program with a spread offense.
everyone has multiple shotgun formations so that doesn't count. lsu bases their offense around the I(especially when Jimbo Fisher was o-coordinator) to set up everything else. a true spread team runs 95% of their offense from the 'gun and almost never run any variation of the I.
LSU has always had some power run game in their playbook. Take 2007-2008 for example. They could spread it out with Doucet, Byrd and Holliday. Or they could pound it out with Hester and Keiland Williams. LSU's offense is the way to go if you want the complete package. This is coming from a Buckeye
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
the spread offense is the shittiest offense in college football...in 1-A football, only ONE spread team has ever won a national title...Texas. outside of that everyone always falls short.
I beleive the spread offense is the most dangerous offense to use but if the defense catches on it depends on pure athletics
i think more offense will start to use the 2 quarterback system like lsu and auburn did this year it makes it harder to plan against because its like playing 2 different offenses
All I'm saying is that with Rodriguez bringing in a spread offense to a team like Michigan may rub people the wrong way like it did with Bill Callahan in Nebraska. Michigan's core of players aren't made to run a spread offense, which means his recruiting process will cause players who want to come to Michigan to go elsewhere, and he'll be stuck with whatever identity he wants Michigan's spread offense to look like.
Isn't that always the case when a coach tries to incorporate a new system? Operating the spread on Michigan's current personnel will be like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. At first, yes, it's going to be painful, and yes, you will miss out on some prime recruits that won't fit into the system, but that's life and that's how it works.
You want to go back to being Michigan, then you'll have to adapt to something that works, and at the moment, as much as I hate to admit it, the spread offense is the biggest thing to happen to college football since the forward pass.
The thing is with Urban Meyer's spread compared to Rich Rodriguez's spread is that Urban Meyer has the talent, speed, and personnel to pull off the spread offense. Rodriguez doesn't have that with Michigan, and when it comes to recruiting, he's gonna be very limited to who he can recruit and being stuck with second tier players, and other spread formation rejects. There's gonna be quite a few transfers, and other Big Ten schools will benefit from the people he cuts or leaves Michigan.
Michigan had the #10 recruiting class this year... far away and beyond anything Rich Rod ever had at West Virginia. Compared to what he had over there, he's drowning in talent right now.
Sure it's going to be a tough year.. but once he starts filling up the depth chart with his own recruits, I don't see him having any problems implementing the spread.
LOL Michigan has out recruited Florida for years and years except for the last 3 or 4 years in our transition from the end of Lloyd Carrs career and the hiring of Rich Rod. We will always get elite athletes because we have the most wins of any college program. Rich Rod gets players from all around the country to fit his spread offense. Of yeah, most of the seniors on Floridas team and most that graduated last year were recruited by Ron Zook.
The Lloyd Carr era of recruiting at Michigan and the Rich Rodriguez era of recruiting at Michigan are two polar opposites. Rodriguez is wanting to totally change the entire outlook of Michigan football, and will cause the program to fall backwards as opposed to going in the right direction. He can't recruit the players "HE" wants, because you can't lure that type of talent away from the SECs and the Pac-10s of the world. Exit Rodriguez and enter Les Miles. Rodriguez is on borrowed time.
Please rich got semi elite guys to go to WV im sure he can get them to Michigan besides the pac-10 has only one team with elite talent to me USC the other schools are avg or above avg my opinion though
Rich Rodriguez bringing the Spread Offense to Michigan is the equivalent of Bill Callahan bringing the West Coast Offense to Nebraska. They just don't go together. The mold of competition and players are much different in the Big Ten than in the Big East. He'll be lucky enough to win 6-7 games this season.
That's not a fair analogy. Rich Rod pretty much created the spread option. Bill Callahan didn't create the West Coast, he only copied it. Bill Walsh is the coach credited with that. I think if Bill Walsh went to Nebraska (before he got old) it would've worked. Callahan was an imitator, Rich Rod is an originator. We'll just have to see how it works.
Bill Callahan bringing the West Coast offense was the worst thing that could happen to Nebraska. Nebraska with a run-first, wishbone, option run style of play, and that style of offense brought them 2 National Titles and put Nebraska on the map as a powerhouse. Sometimes, you don't break from tradition. Hopefully, Bo Pelini will learn from Callahan's mistakes.
Nebraska's problems had nothing to do with their offense. It's been there defense that used to a trademark of those championship teams (the blackshirts) that were absolutely terrible in the Callahan era
As much as the defense was very non-existent during the Callahan era, Callahan didn't fare much better on the offense, and Nebraska never fully grasped the West Coast offense, and made them such a lop-sided program. Bo Pelini will have the task of making Nebraska a more balanced team on offense and defense. That ultimately starts with their running game. Once they get their running game back to where it needs to be, he'll have no problem putting the defense in compliance with the offense.
Bill Callahan became exploited in Nebraska once they realized that the team couldn't adapt to the West Coast offense, and he had no set backup plans or defensive schemes. It's another example of an NFL coach having a lop-sided program with no balance on offense and defense. With Rodriguez at Michigan, it's gonna come down to how he fares with the recruits he has, because he will be limited in talent, and will have to work with what he has. It's gonna be a long 3 years.
That's not a fair analogy. Rich Rod pretty much created the spread option. Bill Callahan didn't create the West Coast, he only copied it. Bill Walsh is the coach credited with that. I think if Bill Walsh went to Nebraska (before he got old) it would've worked. Callahan was an imitator, Rich Rod is an originator. We'll just have to see how it works.
I don't know about that. For one thing, RR has been coaching college ball for years, whereas Bill Callahan was coming right out of the NFL. Secondly, the spread option is working quite well for the Zooker (despite a rough couple of years starting at Illinois) in the Big Ten.
I can see Rich-Rod going to a program that is a perennial underacheiver...a place like Clemson or Pitt, and doing really well. His system works..he just didnt forget how to coach all of a sudden. Wrong kind of guy, at the wrong school
nykia31 1 year ago
@nykia31 or Arizona
anyvideoanywhere 2 months ago
I THINK HE JUST NEEDS TO GO BK AND BE AN OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR AT A D1 SCHOOL, IF HE HAD DEFENSE WITH MICHIGAN HE WOULD STILL BE THERE
AuburnBoi4Lyfe 1 year ago
Rich Rod needs to go now. Next season will probably be another 7-5 season. Poor player development on defense. Michigan needs to get Jim Harbaugh or Brady Hoke.
mg5679 1 year ago
Hire Brady Hoake or Jim Harbaugh.
mg5679 1 year ago
I'm amazed at how many uneducated football 'fans' still think the zone read is a gimmick. It's no more of a gimmick than the triple option was... you know, that offense that dominated college football for several decades before the pro style offense got hot.
And now, the spread is catching fire in the NFL... so what does that tell you? probably nothing if you're one of the afore mentioned idiots.
dustomatic1974 1 year ago
Michigan and Rich Rod suck!!!
bubbatha 1 year ago
@bubbatha Nice child porn, you freak.
dustomatic1974 1 year ago
@dustomatic1974 What the hell are you talking about?
bubbatha 1 year ago
@bubbatha child porn watcher!!!!
Atreyufolife 1 year ago
I'm so pumped for next season. RichRod is going to prove everyone wrong.
GO BLUE!!!
InRichRodWeTrust 1 year ago 7
@InRichRodWeTrust I agree. Rich Rod is the man.
amuell144 1 year ago 4
@InRichRodWeTrust if Rich Rod gets canned are you going to change your name to InHarbaughweTrust or InHoakeweTrust?
mg5679 1 year ago
@InRichRodWeTrust I like how you block people from commenting who disagree with you.
mg5679 1 year ago
@mg5679
Handling idiotic people is not my strong suit.
InRichRodWeTrust 1 year ago
@InRichRodWeTrust you just can't handle the fact someone has a different opinion. I can see Jim Harbaugh or Brady Hoke as the coach next season. Hoke would be good but I would rather have Jim Harbaugh.
If Rich Rodriguez comes back I hope he does well. However, next season will probably be another 7-5 season. Who do you see Michigan beating next season?
mg5679 1 year ago
@mg5679
Wow! who told you how to spell "Hoke" right?
InRichRodWeTrust 1 year ago
@InRichRodWeTrust If Michigan keeps Rodriguez who do you see them beating next season? Will you be mad if they fire him and hire either Jim Harbaugh or Brady Hoke?
mg5679 1 year ago
@InRichRodWeTrust do you see Rich Rod around for next season? I have a feeling he will be gone. It will be either Jim Harbaugh or Brady Hoke. I could see Rich Rod ending up at Pitt or Clemson.
mg5679 1 year ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
bgreer84, your comments are laughable.
InRichRodWeTrust 2 years ago
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InRichRodWeTrust 1 year ago
@InRichRodWeTrust who do you see Michigan beating next season who they lost to this season? Get rid of Rich Rod and hire Jim Harbaugh or Brady Hoake.
mg5679 1 year ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
Bgreer84 couldn't be any more wrong. the spread offense is not a "gimmick" or a "trick play" it's a basic zone read play. so you're going to load 8 in the box? well you're a moron then, whose going to cover the 3/4 wide set? you're going to blitz? they'll throw hot, prevent? not going to stop reading the end and handing it off. the spread zone read make you run against 6 man fronts depending on your formation. you should probably learn what you're talking about before posting.
raidersmojo 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
The Spread option is basically one play. It's one play with 4 options. Well, if by some chance the option isnt working you can always go to pro style. This is why its important to have a QB who can throw. As I stated earlier this is the offenses only drawback. When Pat White went down WVU lost to a bad Pitt team. When he was in, they were unbeatable. Teams must recruit and maintain two good QB's in the SO. Michigan is doing this now.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
You are completely correct. You are entitled to your opinions. No matter how stupid or unfounded they may be. I am also entitled to shread said stupid opinions to pieces with facts. See how that works? In the future, the spread option will become so standard like many teams will be able to figure formations to slow it. However, as I stated earlier the spread allows for normal pro style offense. Traps, draws, bubble screens, etc are all part of the spread option.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
Seriously, your embarrassing yourself now.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
And most of those athletes go to Purdue, Toledo U, etc. Thats why the top midwest teams get their talent from all over. Just like USC does.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
No, winning at two different programs and taking an undersized, lowly recruited smaller school to bigtime BCS games and winning is what made RichRod a top 10 coach in College Football and highly sought after (Alabama ring a bell).
SeanP7195 2 years ago
Good Lord, its like some spoiled little kid who doesnt wanna admit he's wrong. We can all see it to.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
I have showed you already how the spread is probably the most balanced offense their is. Utah and Florida under Meyer was nearly 50/50 pass to run. WVU and now Mich are showing those same numbers. It also allows for clock management. The Spurrier spread was a pass happy attack that struggled when the run was needed. The spread option solves that.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
But you referred to the wish bone and run and shoot as sold, good offenses that keep teams off balance, while referring to the spread option as a gimmick. Doesnt make much sense for a "gimmick" to be run by the top schools in the nation, while good, solid, and efficient offenses to be discarded. Why would they do that?
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
WTF!!! Ohio State has had terrific recruiting classes for decades. Notre Dame...NOTRE DAME!!!!! Are you kidding me! The top schools in the Big ten have had great success recruiting for a very very long time. The problem was stagnant coaching (Carr, Tiller, Alvarez, etc) and that same 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense. Now that they are lossening things up a bit you should start seeing more success. Recruiting was not the issue.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
LMFAO, listen to this stupidity!! They only go after "rich white kids". LMFAO, does Terrelle Pryor and Denard robinson look like the Hansons to you? The Big midwest teams have recruited in the south like crazy for years. Look at Michigans pipeline thru Texas alone?
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
Anthony Carter was from Florida. No one has imporved their recruiting. It's been strong for a long time. YOu are not showing any facts to back up your claims as well. Your argument has become more and more comical.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
pryor is from pennsylvania.
coltsfan883 2 years ago
Yeah I know...
SeanP7195 2 years ago
You clearly either don't understand, or do not follow recruiting classes. Scout and Rivals makes it easy nowadays. The Midwest doesn't suffer in recruiting one bit. In fact, a team like Michigan has long been known (as has ND) as a school who gets its talent from all over. The Big 10 was marred with substandard coaches (Carr, sorry to say) and slightly less than spectacular recruiting classes. The Big 10 although crap, does seem to be heading in the right direction.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
Not only was I not showing Big Ten bias, I thought I was actually knocking them. Also, what do you call OSU in title games? I would certainly call that a sniff.
You are double talking like crazy now. You say the spread option is a gimmick but acknowledge the Big 10 falls behind due to its lack of the spread option.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
Who cares about the Big 10. We are talking about the spread option here. I have proven over and over again that is it the top offense run now in the nation. Major schools drowning in complacency are rushing to find the right coaches for it. The fact the WVU was even playing in BCS games with their small school and mediocre recruiting classes shows RichRod to be at worst an excellent coach. You aren't looking at the big picture. You want to be right, but you can't be.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
How many top 25 teams run the wishbone or run and shoot? Answer = zero
Fewer and fewer teams are using the West Coast Offense. Also, the term pro style offense changes over time. Most pro style teams implement many spread offense formations. This was never about the Big 10's success. You seem to have run out of an argument and are now are attacking the Big 10. Good, that actually proves a point. The Big 10 knows it lacks, which is why its trying to catch up to the spread option.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
RichRod went to some small school and turned them into a winner. He then went to WVU and did the same. It now appears he has breathed some life into a very stagnant program at Michigan. Michigan was able to get top 15 recruiting classes just on name alone, but they still lost 3-5 games a season. The spread option should prevent collapses against weaker teams and bowl game embarrasments. Look for Michigan to be a serious BCS champion contender in a year or two.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
Again, it sounds to me you are throwing out the chessiest arguments that can be easily refuted. Sounds like you are just unwilling to admit the spread option is a very exciting, puposeful offense.
Of course not every team will have success. Just like every pro team or pro style college team doesnt have success. But this is what we know about the spread option
1. Good to excellent recruiting classes +
2. Good to excellent coaching staffs =
3. Lots and lots of wins against all teams.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
Then how have teams like Notre Dame, OSU, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska and etc gotten great talent over the years. recruiting the spread doesnt' hurt at all. How does having a spread option hurt in recruiting defensive players, RB's, TE, etc?
Systems have always been big in College. Look at Andre Ware. He was one of many players helped by a system. So that works both ways. So far, Michigan has had two of their best recruiting classes in a while since RichRod came over.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
The reason Bigten teams are turning to the spread cuz they are losing players and getting killed in bowl games. Even OSU with its near NFL caliber talent pool was losing to spread option teams in the big game. Whatta ya know. they go after Pryor like a maddog.
Big ten teams will be overmatched against the spread is because they lost out on all the talent. Remember when no matter what, Michigan was guaranteed the best OL? That doesnt happen anymore. You gotta win asystem for system.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
Once again, the spread option cares little about the NFL. I highly doubt that Urban Meyer was thinking, wow, I know we are playing for a national championship right now, but I sure wish the NFL liked us more. LoL
In fact, only the QB position in the spread option is the only one that would be a change to the NFL. RB's, TE, lineman, linebackers, etc would be no different. Remember the wishbone, that non-gimmick offense you spoke of? Their QB's couldnt play pro-ball either. Who cares?
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
Of course the spread isn't the option to everyones offensive woes. College football will always come down to two things.
1. Good coaching
2. Good recruiting
Clearly a MAC team has little chance of beating an SEC team regardless of system or style.
However, a SEC team with excellent recruits and an excellent coach (Florida) can implement the Spread option and get the right players and become a very dangerous team.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
Watch NFL games now compared to even 4 years ago... More and more teams are going shotgun on 1st and second down with 4 wide... If you have the talent this offense just makes sense... Defenses are just too big and fast to run straight at them and use west coast run after the catch or simple slant routs... Yes those still work, but spreading ProBowl linebackers and safetys east and west beats them just sitting wating to react when they can run 4.5 40s and bench 225 28 times.
thefighter2001 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
Wake up everyone with the exception of SeanP... True the Spread does work well if you are lacking in talent, but it works too perfection if you have talent and the right talent mainly speed even on your offensive line... Florida is unbeatable this year and USC runs a more old school prostyle offense, but I will take Florida everyday almost every year over USC with todays fast defenses... Its only a matter of time before NFL teams are not just using wildcat but true spreads..
thefighter2001 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
Im sorry, as you comparing Virginia Tech with its top 15 recruiting classes to Cincinnati? Also, having a great defense means = great defense wins nearly all the time against any system. Problem is, is very few teams have a great defense.
P.S Chad Henne is a back-up as many many pro style QB's in the league. NFL success has nothing to do with it, we are talking College here.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
This is beyond stupid. Teams all over the nation are rushing to get the spread option implemented. I mean Michigan went to it, and Ohio State recruited the top Spread option QB ever. That speaks volumes. A lazy offense???? Compared to what, 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Keep watching football young man and you will learn whats really going on on the field.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
Of course i'm not referring to all teams in the Big ten. Come on now, you can do better than that.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
Watch video of Mich/ND. A still very inexperienced Mich team with a true frosh QB ran all over ND. Mich still used many traditional Pro-style plays. Off-tackle to Brandon Minor and three step drop passes, etc. The spread option allows for a team to morph from one style to the next.
The biggest problem I have with the spread option is that the QB is so important (see Mich 08 season). If he is no good, the team suffers greatly. that's why its important to keep a good backup in the wings.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
I agree with all your statements on the spread my friend... People are just living in the past... Having a bad QB can really kill u with a spread, but having a good one can make you have instant offense. The NFL is already implementing forms of the spread.. AKA Wild Cat, 4 to 5 wideouts sometimes even on first downs... Alot more shotgun formations..
thefighter2001 2 years ago
You are just being stubborn now saying that the spread has nothing to offer long term.. Vince Young was a spread-option QB, as was Pat White, Alex Smith, Terelle Pryor is as well. All these big name schools are rushing to change to the spread-option. Several national championships, top NFL talent and BCS bowl wins later people still wanna say its no good. Paul Johnson used the triple-option (very similar to the SO) at Navy and made them a winner...NAVY for petes sake. Now hes at GT.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
First off, no one creates an offense with "limited success" in mind. I think you are confusing the spread offenses of the 90's with the new spread-option that we have now.
Saying their is only 4 options on the spread is like saying their is only 2 options in Pro-set, run or pass. Half of all teams in College use a 3-4 defense every Saturday, yet few can stop the spread-option if any. The spread option uses runs and passes evenly and also takes up a lot of the clock. It's perfect.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
Also, not only would I not fire RichRod for (hard not to laugh here) Herm Edwards, but Mich will easily be a feared team very very soon (they kinda almost are already). RichRod took WVU to BCS games against powerhouses and won. He also did it with recruits that Mich routinely doesnt even give offers to.
Mich is currently #3 in NCAA in rushing. This is with 2 true freshman. Imagine where they will be in a season or two?
SeanP7195 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
But that's simply not true. Florida crushed College Football with it's spread offense and made Urban Meyer a household name. Utah has had unprecendeted success with the spread. I mean how any people talked about Utah football in the past? I see no top 25 colleges running the run and shoot and wishbone. If it was so "proven" then why are teams avoiding it?
Look at WVU under RichRod. With average College talent they were able to not only play but beat Georgia and OK in bowl games.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
I find it hard to believe someone would praise the wisbone, but would call the spread a "trick-play offense". Utah under Urban Meyer had a bout 50/50 run plays to pass plays. They got Alex Smith the #1 overall pick in NFL. The wishbone which used 4 running backs and overpowered weak Big 12 teams was the poster child of a gimmick offense. The run and shoot last saw success with David Klingler.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
#4 Ryan Mallet and Sam Mcguffie openly talked about transferring even before Carr announced his retirement. Both players came to Mich uncertain if they made the right choice.
#5. If the spread is such a gimmick and on its way out then why are so many spread teams so succesful? The wishbone, the run and shoot are gimmicks. The spread is a specific offensive stlye that allows for multiple options. At times it resembles the wishbone, at other times it looks like Pro-set.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
So far Michigan is off to a good start. The offense looks night and day compared to last year.
Forcier has played great so far. He should be good for quite a while. He reminds me of Colt McCoy and Troy Smith.
I think Rich Rod could have adjusted the system to Mallet because when he was the offensive cordinator at Tulane he threw the ball a lot. Shaun King threw for 3,500 yds.
mg5679 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
When a new coach comes in he needs time to get his type of players. Rodriguez had a very good 09 class. He is off to a good start with the 2010 class. More college teams are running the spread.
In order to be successful in college football you have to recruit nation wide.
mg5679 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
Big Ten teams have gotten dominated in the bowl games the past couple of years. Quite a few teams that beat the Big Ten in the bowls ran the spread. Penn State runs the spread and it has worked well for them.
mg5679 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
The Big Ten does not lack the speed at the skill positions vs the other conferences. Where the Big Ten lacks the speed is on the offensensive and defensive lines.
mg5679 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
Do you think the academic standards might play into a difference at Big Ten schools as compared to other conferences?
mg5679 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
If you look at the last Rose Bowl Michigan played in they got out coached. USC made adjustments and Michigan did not. USC blitzed Michigan everytime on 3rd down. When Michigan did make an adjustment it was to late.
mg5679 2 years ago
#1. Playing "Michigan football" is whay got them in this mess. The Pro-set had run its course at Michigan and was no longer successful even with excellent recruits.
#2. RichRod is scaring no one away. In fact, he has had 2 excellent recruiting classes in a row and well on his way to a 3rd. (note: Devin Gardner is #1 DT QB in nation).
#3. Who cares if they spread doesnt fare well in the NFL. Most players are out of the NFL in 3 years or less regardless of system.
SeanP7195 2 years ago
1st off....the michigan m will sell its self...he'll get top prospects....second none of those players were forced out, mallet left after rich rod told him they could work the offense around him....that being said ...the jury is no doubt out on mr rich rod still......
MichiganRJRIII3rd 2 years ago
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bgreer84 2 years ago
When Rodriguez was the offensive cordinator at Tulane he threw the ball quite a bit.
mg5679 2 years ago
If utilized properly they can also try to do a shuffle pass out of it
btalru07 2 years ago
yea. like florida does with hernandez
CollegeFootballBest 2 years ago
Little fun question here to ponder...If Mundy stayed at Michigan, would he have been drafted?
MelC54 3 years ago
I think so!
bluejayforever2006 2 years ago
I am a michigan fan, but i still think it was a better decision. For the same reason why it'll be good for anyone to come to michigan now... Mike Barwis, strength and conditioning extraordinare.
RoverCleveland01 2 years ago
I am a michigan fan and I hate the spred Smash mouth is the way 2 go
UOFM21PATS32 3 years ago
well most of the big ten does that and look where it got them. spreads the future. adapt or die.
modinaman 3 years ago
spread is the future...smash mouth ugly bigten football has not done us any good since 97, look at carr's last year
cardfanman1 3 years ago
A MEN to u!
bluejayforever2006 2 years ago
thats why Terrelle Pryor should have went to Michigan because he can rush.
mike0n0jake0inc 3 years ago
Yeah except he wants a future in the NFL.... Where they play Big Boy football, not back yard antics
Bucknut02 3 years ago
your a dumb ass cuz michigans gonna romp the buckeyes as soon as they learn the spread. so yea terrel pryor is gonna rgret not going to michigan because hes never gonna throw for 3000 yards as long as he stays at OSU
CCHeat25 2 years ago
Let's see, Steve Slaton, Owen Schmitt, and Darius Reynaud all went to the NFL...so did Ryan Mundy a defensive back.
MelC54 3 years ago
Real talk!!
NebHusk90 3 years ago
Little fun fact here. Ryan Mundy was a transfer from Michigan.
vidwatcher999 3 years ago
of course recievers,linemen, and backs can make easy transitions to pro-style offenses, they almost never have to change their playing style. QB's however have to adjust to taking many more snaps under center then they're used to and 9/10 that is too sharp a sharp learning curve. the WILDCAT formation will fizzle out in the NFL almost as suddenly as the dolphins success with it...once teams have gotten used to seeing it then it will be stopped. oh yea...didn't they lose to the texans?
mh6041 3 years ago
Spread WRs and RBs do just fine in the NFL and a good OL is a good OL. Also, Dolphins are having some success with it too. The offense puts you in space and requires better schemes and athletes when run well.
coachKILP15 3 years ago
I think that it is a very difficult offense to stop.
recessisin24 3 years ago
Pat White...he'll never be a successful NFL quarterback...and that's all that really matters unless you really like watching kids play. I'll watch my own kids play...why would I want to watch someone else's kids play? BTW, Pat White is getting his rear-end kicked all over the field as I type this post. The spread offense is terminal football...few athletes who have serious ambitions about playing in the NFL will join a college program with a spread offense.
cmt2007 3 years ago
That's not true, look at recievers like jeremy maclin, nfl scouts are drooling over him now as i type this post
afroballer33 3 years ago
Lsu ran the spread offense
Burnetag99 3 years ago
everyone has multiple shotgun formations so that doesn't count. lsu bases their offense around the I(especially when Jimbo Fisher was o-coordinator) to set up everything else. a true spread team runs 95% of their offense from the 'gun and almost never run any variation of the I.
mh6041 3 years ago
LSU has always had some power run game in their playbook. Take 2007-2008 for example. They could spread it out with Doucet, Byrd and Holliday. Or they could pound it out with Hester and Keiland Williams. LSU's offense is the way to go if you want the complete package. This is coming from a Buckeye
idahobuckeye 2 years ago
i take that back...only 2 teams have won titles...texas and florida.
mh6041 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
the spread offense is the shittiest offense in college football...in 1-A football, only ONE spread team has ever won a national title...Texas. outside of that everyone always falls short.
mh6041 3 years ago
that's a joke right?
afroballer33 3 years ago
this guys a genius and i too believe that this formation is hard to stop. im gonna be using this formation when i coach soon.
boraichoboy 3 years ago
the spread offnese is so hard to stop because there so many options
patrick2120 3 years ago
its also the hardest to recruit for
fenway123 3 years ago
I beleive the spread offense is the most dangerous offense to use but if the defense catches on it depends on pure athletics
i think more offense will start to use the 2 quarterback system like lsu and auburn did this year it makes it harder to plan against because its like playing 2 different offenses
SirromRamal 3 years ago
If you got a speedy quaterback than no one can stop a spread offense unless he gets hurt. then your screwed ie Dennis Dixon and Pat White
modinaman 3 years ago
EPIC FAIL
in the making
bobbydigital2020 3 years ago
All I'm saying is that with Rodriguez bringing in a spread offense to a team like Michigan may rub people the wrong way like it did with Bill Callahan in Nebraska. Michigan's core of players aren't made to run a spread offense, which means his recruiting process will cause players who want to come to Michigan to go elsewhere, and he'll be stuck with whatever identity he wants Michigan's spread offense to look like.
bgreer84 3 years ago
Isn't that always the case when a coach tries to incorporate a new system? Operating the spread on Michigan's current personnel will be like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. At first, yes, it's going to be painful, and yes, you will miss out on some prime recruits that won't fit into the system, but that's life and that's how it works.
aznravechild6i9 3 years ago
You want to go back to being Michigan, then you'll have to adapt to something that works, and at the moment, as much as I hate to admit it, the spread offense is the biggest thing to happen to college football since the forward pass.
aznravechild6i9 3 years ago
Yeah.. just like Urban Meyer's spread offense would never work in the SEC.. (rolleyes)
finlayene 3 years ago
The thing is with Urban Meyer's spread compared to Rich Rodriguez's spread is that Urban Meyer has the talent, speed, and personnel to pull off the spread offense. Rodriguez doesn't have that with Michigan, and when it comes to recruiting, he's gonna be very limited to who he can recruit and being stuck with second tier players, and other spread formation rejects. There's gonna be quite a few transfers, and other Big Ten schools will benefit from the people he cuts or leaves Michigan.
bgreer84 3 years ago
Michigan had the #10 recruiting class this year... far away and beyond anything Rich Rod ever had at West Virginia. Compared to what he had over there, he's drowning in talent right now.
Sure it's going to be a tough year.. but once he starts filling up the depth chart with his own recruits, I don't see him having any problems implementing the spread.
finlayene 3 years ago
"2008 OUTLOOK:.."BLEAK, at least for right now, Michigan isn't considered an elite team in the Big Ten."...as quoted from USA TODAY !! "
shelldawv 3 years ago
LOL Michigan has out recruited Florida for years and years except for the last 3 or 4 years in our transition from the end of Lloyd Carrs career and the hiring of Rich Rod. We will always get elite athletes because we have the most wins of any college program. Rich Rod gets players from all around the country to fit his spread offense. Of yeah, most of the seniors on Floridas team and most that graduated last year were recruited by Ron Zook.
Breckenhick 2 years ago
It takes a new coach at least 2-4 years to get his type of players. I think you will see an improved Michigan team.
To be successful in college football you need to recruit nation wide.
mg5679 2 years ago
The Lloyd Carr era of recruiting at Michigan and the Rich Rodriguez era of recruiting at Michigan are two polar opposites. Rodriguez is wanting to totally change the entire outlook of Michigan football, and will cause the program to fall backwards as opposed to going in the right direction. He can't recruit the players "HE" wants, because you can't lure that type of talent away from the SECs and the Pac-10s of the world. Exit Rodriguez and enter Les Miles. Rodriguez is on borrowed time.
bgreer84 2 years ago
Please rich got semi elite guys to go to WV im sure he can get them to Michigan besides the pac-10 has only one team with elite talent to me USC the other schools are avg or above avg my opinion though
LT313beats 2 years ago
Rich Rodriguez bringing the Spread Offense to Michigan is the equivalent of Bill Callahan bringing the West Coast Offense to Nebraska. They just don't go together. The mold of competition and players are much different in the Big Ten than in the Big East. He'll be lucky enough to win 6-7 games this season.
bgreer84 3 years ago
That's not a fair analogy. Rich Rod pretty much created the spread option. Bill Callahan didn't create the West Coast, he only copied it. Bill Walsh is the coach credited with that. I think if Bill Walsh went to Nebraska (before he got old) it would've worked. Callahan was an imitator, Rich Rod is an originator. We'll just have to see how it works.
dylanrocks83 3 years ago
Bill Callahan bringing the West Coast offense was the worst thing that could happen to Nebraska. Nebraska with a run-first, wishbone, option run style of play, and that style of offense brought them 2 National Titles and put Nebraska on the map as a powerhouse. Sometimes, you don't break from tradition. Hopefully, Bo Pelini will learn from Callahan's mistakes.
bgreer84 3 years ago
Nebraska's problems had nothing to do with their offense. It's been there defense that used to a trademark of those championship teams (the blackshirts) that were absolutely terrible in the Callahan era
Orbital2 3 years ago
As much as the defense was very non-existent during the Callahan era, Callahan didn't fare much better on the offense, and Nebraska never fully grasped the West Coast offense, and made them such a lop-sided program. Bo Pelini will have the task of making Nebraska a more balanced team on offense and defense. That ultimately starts with their running game. Once they get their running game back to where it needs to be, he'll have no problem putting the defense in compliance with the offense.
bgreer84 3 years ago
the reason why there defence was so good was because the offence would grind you for 5 min and the defence got plenty of rest.
fenway123 3 years ago
Callahan didn't have success at Nebraska because he was a horrible recruiter. His offense wasn't the problem it was his lack of player to run it.
Breckenhick 2 years ago
Bill Callahan became exploited in Nebraska once they realized that the team couldn't adapt to the West Coast offense, and he had no set backup plans or defensive schemes. It's another example of an NFL coach having a lop-sided program with no balance on offense and defense. With Rodriguez at Michigan, it's gonna come down to how he fares with the recruits he has, because he will be limited in talent, and will have to work with what he has. It's gonna be a long 3 years.
bgreer84 3 years ago
That's not a fair analogy. Rich Rod pretty much created the spread option. Bill Callahan didn't create the West Coast, he only copied it. Bill Walsh is the coach credited with that. I think if Bill Walsh went to Nebraska (before he got old) it would've worked. Callahan was an imitator, Rich Rod is an originator. We'll just have to see how it works.
dylanrocks83 3 years ago
I don't know about that. For one thing, RR has been coaching college ball for years, whereas Bill Callahan was coming right out of the NFL. Secondly, the spread option is working quite well for the Zooker (despite a rough couple of years starting at Illinois) in the Big Ten.
itzSommyJr 3 years ago
our high school runs spread
supersamurai563 4 years ago