Alcohol Fuel Demonstration in a Minibike - No Conversion

[knowpub]

What I said is ALL TRUE... I know how to do an energy balance and not just 'guess' at what is used to produce the energy I am using. Its thermodynamics 101....and you are just so full of crap from the net, a 'small percentage' is NOT what makes it to your house through the grid, its a LARGE percentage. Thats why Tesla invented AC current, so it could go thousands of miles.

[ke4uyp]

What you say is partially true but let's not forget that there is a diesel power tractor required to grow the starch. Also the starch had to be transported via a diesel power truck to the distribution warehouse. Also miles of power grid transmission lines have huge amounts of resistance so only a small percentage of the electricity generated at the electric plant makes it to your house.

[ke4uyp]

OK here is the bottom line you cannot create nor destroy energy.

You can only convert it from one form to another and in the process of doing this you end up with less energy than you started with. So if you cannot make the alcohol with solar geothermal or wind you are wasting energy.

[knowpub]

@ke4uyp Here is the bottom line, you're DEAD WRONG. The starch that was converted to sugars that was fermented into alcohol WAS MADE WITH SUNSHINE....that is how the starch was grown. So you CAN use electricity very efficiently to distill the alcohol and get a very big net energy gain, because the sunshine made the starch for you. I have done a LOT of distillation via propane, natural gas AND especially using electricity. Distillation by electricity is one of my favorite methods.

[switchgrassfuel]

good video. I run my 2006 KIA Spectra on a 50% blend of ethanol 65000 miles on E50 with no problems at all. I hope to convert my car soon.

[mrjamestferguson]

I like how you hold your own as you go into battle with a naysayer...right or wrong, you are strong!

Thank you Steven...keep up the GREAT work!

[usernameusername12]

Yes, you do need anhydrous alcohol when mixing with gasoline, otherwise the trace amount of water in the alcohol will settle to the bottom of the gas tank, and next you start your vehicle, it won't start and you have to rebuild the block to get the water out.

If you get all the gas out and run on pure alcohol, then you can run the engine on 170-180 proof (85%-95% Alcohol by volume) alcohol.

[knowpub]

You ARE 100% WRONG, INCORRECT. Not only is it IN THE BOOK (Alcohol Can Be a Gas), along with the alcohol / water / gasoline temperature tables, but WE DID IT. WE MIXED IT, NO SEPERATION. It won't seperate until below -10F. Don't believe me, go get some denatured alcohol at home depot, get some gasoline, get some water..and mix them.

[knowpub]

This.. is BS... you do NOT need to have anhydrous alcohol and the water does not settle down in the bottom of the tank. Please go look up the word "miscible"

[gabbyjim]

Hummm..... In the imortal words of Artie Johnson (Laugh-In) "Vedy Intresting".

At the risk of sounding like a "Perpetual Motion" nut - let's say I brew a batch using a commercially available fuel for the boiler - once I have a batch of juice, if I use THAT to brew MORE, will the yield exceed the consumption?

[knowpub]

technically, if you look at it hard and are very very effecient with your heat xchange and insulation, you can make more with the fuel value of the alcohol that you produced, but not really. *BUT* if you 'methane digest' your solids left over THEN YOU CAN have enough methane to run the still and thus not use any alcohol or purchased natural gas / propane.

[gabbyjim]

So, if I understand the answer correctly, it would seem that - without the production of the bio-gas to creat the heat to distil MORE alcohol - the production of the alochol is no more than a conversion process - that is, exchanging of one combination of fuels (heat from some external source + the fermentation materials) for another (alcohol) with the likelyhood of some loss.

(I had more, but ran out of room) I look forward to more enlightenment.

[knowpub]

You can't use electricity to make electricity either. There are plenty of free / cheap biomass energy sources to use to make alcohol, including the methane gas the left overs can produce, and then those left overs become fertilizer!! It is called the EFFECIENT USE OF MATERIALS !! DO NOT think it must be powered by natural gas or oil.

[debknight56]

Congrats on wedding! Am jealous - have loved you and your happy arrogance since I first became addicted to your sites! Alas , old enuf to be your mama....loved video - can't wait to try it out!

[chromecarz00]

So this kind of fuel, what kind of performance does it give? if you had to assign an octane rating to it (i know its not octane but different types of octanes have different purities, performance implications, etc) what would you give it? basically what im asking is can this be used as a performance fuel.

[knowpub]

sure as check can be used as a performance fuel. E85 (85% Ethanol) has an octane rating of 105. Pure Ethanol (E100) has a rating of 110 to 113. If you want more fuel economoy from ethanol ( or performance) you increase the compression ratio of the cylinder. Ethanol is a performance fuel.

[falcontwin]

How much does the alchohol cost to produce? The ingredients and equipment aren't free. once factoring in the cost of production and the reduced efficiency are you really any better off?

[knowpub]

Humm.. Gee..that seems to be what we are talking about isn't it? David Blume spent the last 4 years writing this 600 page, 4 pound book. Which has his entire life experience in making alcohol going back to the 70's when he did it for Mother Earth News... yeah.. I'd say its worth it to make alcohol. Less than $1 / gallon is easy. If you are good, you might get less than 50 cents.

[zzbruno]

KnowPub,

According to my local (Hawaii), adding alcohol to my fuel will void the warranty on my 2007 Prius. He also stated that untaxed alcohol as a fuel product is illegal. Can you provide any insight on that?

Thanks and love your pubs. I have all your solar stuff.

[knowpub]

When is the last time you ever found anyone in a "dealership" who knew anything? Just another person who knows nothing, has done nothing in life, trying to get you to do nothing as well. Making FUEL ALCOHOL with an ATF permit ( easy to get ) is NOT illegal. He'd tell you that if you farted in your vehicle it would void the warrenty. Japs don't have good warrenties, you'll be out of it soon enough if it worries you.

[giojohn57]

Alcohol/Ethanol is NOT the answer. Farmers are now growing more corn for the production of ethanol causing a shortage of corn by products which in turn is raising the prices of our foods. The oil companies love it because they have bought into more corn farms. They win either way. We need to think solar, wind, hydro, electromagnetic and stop using the earths resources.

[knowpub]

Hey IDIOT..where do you see me advocating CORN? Huh??? LOOK at what I wrote.. and also, NO WHERE IN THE VIDEO DOES IT SAY CORN. There are TONS of things that can be grown or PICKED UP to make alcohol from that are WASTED TODAY. TONS per Person PER Week. ..and don't try to sell us the electromeagnetic KOOK JUNK! People like you are the real enemy of what we do, not the oil companies.

[giojohn57]

Ok! Stupid for replying to the wrong Frigin video. Idiot I am not. Has for Electromagnets I have been using it to charge up my battery banks when the wind is not blowing. Probably should also apologize for voicing my political concerns on the use of Ethanol. No has for you're Alcohol production I think it's great.

The kook

[knowpub]

LOL... you're not that bad...  Thanks Kook!! :)

[htimsxela]

What about mileage rates? I have ethenol mixed in my fuel (at the pump at about 10%) and then I get a 20% decrease in my mileage. It won't do me any good to offset my gas if I see a similar offset in my mileage.

[knowpub]

no.. you don't get a 20% decrease from 10% alcohol, you are wrong on that. There is a decrease in milage with alcohol because it is LESS energy dense than gasoline. However, you MADE this alcohol, its yours and for driving by the mile, its a lot cheaper than gasoline.

[htimsxela]

Please check my math. According to wikipedia (my phd = marketing, not engineering) energy for gasoline = 46.9MJ/kg vs gasohol (10% alcohol) = 43.54MJ/kg; a decrease of 9%. So if I get 400 miles on a tank at $60 (20 gallons at $3/g) then with alcohol I get 220 miles for $30. (assuming constant rate of energy decrease at 9% per 10% alcohol in the gas.) or $60 gets either 400 miles or 440 miles (if alcohol is free). At best a 10% gain for the same cost.

[knowpub]

Good Work, Good Thinking. Nice responce, unlike what some other people do, but.. you're incorrect on the figures. The way you figured the drop in energy from the ethanol. BY VOLUME (gallon) ethanol is about 70% that of gasoline in BTUs/MJ/calories etc.. So your MPG can be 70% of gasoline. So 400 miles on a tank of Gasoline = 280 miles on PURE ethanol. 50/50 mix would be about 340 miles, in an unmodified car. p.s. we LOVE wikipedia.

[ssguerrand]

Would a 1:1 ratio be the highest you can go with a stock motor? Or would higher ratios be possible?

[knowpub]

That depends on the motor and the fuel system. The minibike will run on pure alcohol, some older cars will run on ratios much higher than 50%, but the good news is that most modern fuel injected computerised vehicles can take 20 to 45-50% without modification.

[jkingiv]

Nice, but what about the cost to buy the sugar to ferment the alcohol? Then it will end up costing as much as gas itself ???

[knowpub]

There are THOUSANDS of things you can ferment alcohol from. 2 day old donuts, past date bread, candy waste, pastry droppings, sprouting potatos..and the list goes on. If its starch or sugar, you can convert and or ferment. Plus we have stuff coming out on cellulose to ethanol. a ton of newspaper can make 60 to 100 gallons of alcohol. Wheat chaff, leaves, bark, wood chips etc... Everything that is alive or lived, is made up of a lot of long chain sugar molecules.

[Odyssey68601]

I'm excited to see that you finally have an account on youtube! I hope you add some of your disaster class information too!!

[hellotherechap]

awsome, i would like to see this technology take off rapidly

[knowpub]

That is why we are doing the new design as open source. The stretch goal is a million mini alcohol refineries... even if they average 7 gallons a week, that's 7 gallons of money NOT going overseas...to the people that HATE US. They wanted a jihad...they got one.

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto's sleeping giant quote after Pearl Harbor (1941)

[ssguerrand]

Hey, an average of 7 gallons a week sounds great to a scooter driver like myself. A few choice modifications and I should be able to run on straight ethanol. Hope the plans are ready relatively soon. I'm damn eager to work on getting one up and running!

[knowpub]

Look... 7 gallons a week is a LOW amount, not hard to do...this video is not inteneded for scooter drivers, NOR am I advocating you tweek your scooter to run on straight ethanol. What I am advocating is NO modifications NEEDED and running on a mixture of alcohol and gasoline. 7 gallons saved can be $20 a week saved.

[ssguerrand]

Trust me, I'm on the mailing list and have been following you guys for a bit now. I'm just one of those people that likes to go for the extreme. Heck, even running at a 1:1 ratio like you show here would be a vast improvement. (btw, self disclaimer for ya, I take full responsibility for my own actions however bird brained they may be. :D ) I'll probably end up as the alcohol supplier for the whole family. :)

[heiho1]

I urge people to avail themselves of the knowledge needed to liberate their energy resources from greedy hands.

[knowpub]

No... I want this technology in greedy hands, I want this technology in YOUR GREEDY hands, and everyone's GREEDY HANDS. I want a million little GREEDY hands making alcohol. I want the wait for ATF permits to be longer than the one for passports !!!

[zpexec]

Outstanding...this is a much smarter method than just using corn as ethanol.

Well done!