The Flaws and Fallacies of the Goldstone Report

[johnnyfast]

The flaw is that it exposes the truth, the fallacy is that Zionist Israel is not a terrorist nation feeding on US welfare dollars.

[theresmoretoit1]

" During operation cast lead the Israeli Defense Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.

"More than anything the civilians casualties were a consequence of Hamas way of fighting. Hamas deliberately tried to sacrifice its own civilians. "

Hamas deliberately tried to sacrifice its own civilians.

UK Col. Richard Kemp

Goldstone Gaza Report: Col. Richard Kemp Testifies at U.N. Emergency Session

[AbuAvital]

Goldstone has now admited that he got it wrong, so Gold was right all along, but of course those who want to condem Isreal won't be swayed by facts than run counter to their opinions.

[steute2011]

@AbuAvital Listen, stop exaggerating the recantation. He said two things...the first is that Israel did not target civilians as a matter of policy and secondly, that had he known what he knows now it would have been a different report, which goes without saying since Israel refused to cooperate or participate in any way with the investigation. Furthermore, the other 3 co-authors of the report stand firmly behind the original version and question his motives for the "partial" recantation. Got It?

[AbuAvital]

@steute2011 as I said those that don't want to be swayed by the truth won't be and you prooved my point nicely. Thank you.

[steute2011]

@AbuAvital You must first tell the truth and then expect one to be swayed! Contrary to your reply, it is you that has proven my point by not providing a rebuttal to the facts I presented. Instead you use the common tactic of attempting to discredit the source of the facts, rather than the facts themselves. No, Thank You.

[USStateSponTerrorism]

No sane person believes anything that comes out of the mouth of supporters of Jewish Terrorism against the Palestinians, including our lying federal government. Eventually Israel will get what's coming to them. I am an American and I hope Israel is wiped off the face of the earth, soon, They are a disease.

[ye32]

"Judge" Goldstone sentenced to death by hanging, innoscent black people while being a judge in South Africa when it had the aparthide regime.

[Jelperman]

@ye32

Bullshit -they were tried and convicted in a court of law.

By the way, Justice Robert Jackson sentenced people to death before prosecuting the Nazis at Nuremberg. Does this mean the Nazis were innocent?

[ye32]

@Jelperman

All the cases that were sentenced by "Judge" Goldstone were examined and were found to be wrong and racist according to internatioal laws.

[Jelperman]

@ye32

Liar. If Goldstone had sentenced blacks unfairly, Nelson Mandela and the others in the non-apartheid government wouldn't have allowed him to remain as judge. Apparently, you know more about who oppressed blacks and who didn't than Mandela or Desmond Tutu.

[joy00923]

Don't know why my comment is shown as

spam..this is the only comment i have made on this site..

[joy00923]

Where is the Goldstone report for the killing of innocent civilians in Afghanistan

by NATO and the USA this week?

[metalic699]

1890-1906 The Dreyfus Affairs

1903- The Protocols of The Elders of Zion

2009- The Goldstone Report

[TheNewsCriticOnline]

After the Goldstone report was completed, they made statements indicating that victims must not only be listened to, but that it would be very cruel to not give credence to their voices.

They did not mention that the voices of the Gaza witnesses were monitored and controlled by Hamas, the terrorist group elected to be their Parliamentarians in Gaza, taking in consideration that much of it was demonstrably false, either they support Hamas or they get killed.

[RebelRay]

Why should Israel accept blame for something they are not guilty of?

[abbienetvision]

Israel should not have left Gaza without Gilad Shalit. Actually when looking at the statistics of deaths in Gaza, the deaths are almost all males, and as we all know, the males are terrorists from a very young age.

Let's see the casualties by sex,and see just how many of the deaths were "innocent"

It is close to zero!

[popiedo]

you truly are a piece of shit,

All male of terrorist? you on crack? So than all israeli are military targets than.

Devaluing all pallys is something the germans did to another group of people guess who?

I guess that's Zionism. you racist,bigotry and your words promotes disdain for israel's cause and it's people. your no better than the terrorist you claim to fight when innocents do not matter.and de-legitimize ur argument

you bitch about israel being demonized, you show why it should.

[abbienetvision]

poop.

again...LEAVE MY COUNTRY AND GO BACK TO YOURS, WHICHEVER ISLAMIC BACKWARD COUNTRY IT IS!

You are stupid, disregard facts, have a problem with reasoning and logic, and my dog is smarter than you.

America supports Israel, and if you don't LEAVE! Simple solution.

Remember, every $1 bill in USA has a Jewish star, to remember Jewish man named Hyam (Hiam) Solomon who was George Washingtons financial advisor and assistant, & helped US financially in the Revolutionary War.Hate Jews...leave USA!

[popiedo]

Facts like all pally of terrorist?logic like the jews won america's independence, haha you dumb

oh i forgot the U.S. never dislike jews, must of been the same for blacks right?

oh lordy  lord i guess i missed that in history class praise the jews for creating America, not the french, tea parties, U.S. privateers, civil war was great for jews in the south.

they liked him so much they banned jews from entering buildings

[popiedo]

Haha i see why your in israel, maybe there your rambling is considered teaching but here your just a jackass, I see ur momma dropped u one too many times since your keep refering me as islamic since many times over i told you i was not.must be that logic and reasoning of yours kicking in.

haha I guessing you couldn't make it in the US so you ran away to israel. must feel big beating on people who cant fight back. come to the u.s. talking trash and see how tough you are.

what a pussy

[popiedo]

When you keep refering to your dog is that your wife, pretty sure they look alike?

I'm done talking to a retard like yourself,

[abbienetvision]

Poopbrain,

Your ignorance is really amazing to me. I am female, but you are too stupid to even look at who you write. I bet you dropped out of school and probably couldn't even finish the GED..right?

How is the McDees hamburger flipping going?

[abbienetvision]

Poop,

Thought you were American...everyone in USA knows that Abbie is a girl's name.

Why don't you ask some real Americans about the name Abbie.

It seems that you are not an American, or you surely would have known the name Abbie or Abby (like Dear Abby) is only a female name. Thanks for proving to every American here, that you are not an American...no two ways about it!

[abbienetvision]

As former prime minister of Israel, the late Mrs. Golda Meir said - "We can forgive the arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them to forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the arabs when they love their children more than they hate us."

[popiedo]

blah blah blah jackass, wow a pro israel poll done by israeli supporters i sure there not biased in anyway hah

the poll you quoted was done with 800 people far from anything close to 300million and out of those 800, 38% were un-sure or failed to answer. meaning 56% are not for israel actions retarded.

Dam your dumb no wonder you had to move to Israel

[abbienetvision]

poopy,

A CNN poll found that 63% of Americans felt that Israel's war on Gaza was right

Gallup Poll. Feb. 9-12, 2009. N=1,022 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.

"In the Middle East situation, are your sympathies more with the Israelis or more with the Palestinians?"

8/97-4/02 wording: "In the Middle East situation, are your sympathies more with the Israelis or more with the Palestinian Arabs?"

60% with Israel

Your numbers are only from your ass, since you cannot provide even one source.

[popiedo]

Rasmussen polls say israel was right 44% israel is right and 41% believe them to be wrong, with 15% undecided.

CNN also says isreael started the war in gaza or did you miss that show?

salon dems opposed it 55 to 31 and republicans 62 to 27.

based on how you phase a poll question you can tweet the results hench the word "sympathies "

U should thank god your not a turkey in the U.S. or your ass would be dead. You already present the intelligence of one

"Gable, Gable, Gable!

jackass

[abbienetvision]

poop,

Your figures again are from your butt, I guess I see why your handle is poop!

RASMUSSEN POLL:MOST DEMOCRATS OPPOSE ISRAELI DEFENSE,

62% OF REPUBLICANS SUPPORT ISRAEL

Sixty-seven percent (67%) of those who say they are following news out of Gaza Very Closely support Israel's military action, while 30% favor diplomacy. 75% of Republicans say Israel is an ally of the United States, just 55% of Democrats agree

(Copied from poll)

You cannot even post one truth here...sick MotherFkr.

[popiedo]

wrong again.

Since your dumb and rightfully so, Israel broke the ceasefire and blamed it on hamas. Even when hamas curved there rockets.

talk abut polls coming from you ass. i guess crap flow both from your ass and mouth.

[abbienetvision]

pop,

Again wrong...and I have seen the report. It disregards many violations by Hamas:

18 mortars were fired at Israel in this period, beginning on the night of 6/23.

20 rockets were fired, beginning on 6/24, when 3 rockets hit the Israeli town of Sderot.

6/6 farmers working in the fields of Nahal Oz were attacked by light arms fire from Gaza.

On the night of 8/15 Palestinians fired across the border at Israeli soldiers near the Karni crossing.

10/31 an IDF patrol spotted Palestinians planting

[abbienetvision]

Poop,

You claim that CNN says Israel started the war in Gaza..lol. Who did you think started the war? Israel went into Gaza after 8 yrs of rocket fire..duh!

Are you really so stupid? Thanks for the good laugh...stupidity at your level is very entertaining.

[abbienetvision]

poopfrommydogissmarterthanyou,

The poll I quoted previously was not with 800 people, seems you cannot even find a poll, when the poll is given to you.

Ipsos / McClatchy 1/6-12/09; 1054 adults, 3% margin of error

A CNN poll found that 63% of Americans felt that Israel's war on Gaza was right. They say only 17% of Americans supported the Palestinians.

The Israel Project poll also found that more Americans (55%) hold Palestinians responsible for the violence

[popiedo]

Happy Thanksgiving

[abbienetvision]

poop,

Shouldn't you be at Mecca today? Walking around like a moron? Maybe next year!

[popiedo]

naw the only big thing ill be walking around today is your momma. I was stuffing her turkey last night.

thanks for asking though.

Keep sitting in your imaginary holy land and thinking U.S. support is unending while it becomes less and less.

so you admit israel started the war on gaza? so israel broke the cease-fire, but the IDF says it didnt.

Haha your dumb so dumb (israel project poll) hahahah

[popiedo]

watch?v=KntmpoRXFX4

eat it,

people who broke the cease-fire not the pallys anor hamas but israel.

Jackass.

[abbienetvision]

I hope that everyone that sees this vids and the comments, realizes that popiedo (which means shit for brains in Latin) has nothing but bullshit comments with no proof.

Not one comment has any proof, since this is clearly a Hamas terrorist lover.

Please give this person thumbs down, so we don't have to see all the moronic comments by this idiot.

[popiedo]

now for you my arab hating jester, by the comment you made on my page i can tell you hate arabs be it Christan or Muslim, i find it hard to believe your a writer or teacher from what you said. Along with wanting another attack on America to get me.

Sickens me and i told people in my unit about this as well. I even printed it out to show how what a jackass you are.

NEVER talk about my country, my home the USA of being attacked. I love for congress and the senate to see what you said.

[abbienetvision]

poop,

You idiot. I don't hate Arabs, in fact the pic on my page is to my vid of Brigette Gabriel, an Arab..duh!

What is your unit...Taliban or Al-Queida?

USA is my home...in fact my family has been in USA since the 1700's, I am more American than you, since your family, like most Muslims are in USA since the 1920's or less.

I am against terrorism that can kill my family, which is completely in USA, while you support the terrorists. America is not a Muslim country, but a Jewish/Xtain one.

[popiedo]

wow your dumb, did i not say i was not arab jackass,

"You idiot. I don't hate Arabs, in fact the pic on my page is to my vid of Brigette Gabriel, an Arab..duh!"

thats not what your commit consisted over or did you forget..

really

Israel tried over and over to get Hamas to stop the rocket attacks, but instead the attacks worsened in number and strength,

how many were killed again? how many israelis and how many pallys, make it simple how many civlians on both sides?

[abbienetvision]

pop,

Pali terrorism in Israel has killed more Israelis than Palis. You choose to look at one aggressive act, the Hamas rockets, but how many Israelis were killed by Pali suicide bombers, well over 1,000 KIDS dead.

Your memory, if any, is short, or you just don't know facts, but open your big ugly mouth anyway.

IDF is investigating Goldstone, but again, you are too deft to know.

Maybe you should go to kidstube, where you will understand vids better, like cartoons, more your level.

[abbienetvision]

pop,

Is this from your channel? "About me: Im not arab"

Now you say that you never said that...I see you follow your claims of lying well, while blaming others.

Arabs belong in Arabia is they are still clinging to Islam, they should not infest USA.

You are not American..so go to a Muslim country. You and your type are unwelcome trouble makers in USA, UK, Sweden, and all other infidel countries.

The koran clearly states to humiliate infidels, like you love to do.  Now leave my country.

[popiedo]

Your statement in itself shows how foolish you are.

Seriously are you retarded? again your arab jabs do nothing since again i'm not arab jackass.

I hope your the exception to israeli thinking not the norm.

Dude your Dumb

[abbienetvision]

poopforbrains,

You forgot to mention your unit, Taliban or Al-Quieda. Awaiting the true unit.

Leave America, you are unwelcome and it is my country. I do not want my country destroyed by scum like you and there are 300 million on my side, so get your ass back to your violent, Islamic country and leave MINE!

[popiedo]

haha this from the guy living in israel probably has a house on stolen land.

300million get real you don't even have 6million on your side.

Whats my unit ill tell you

my unit.was in you momma but it was crowded , i left a present there just for you. so you can put cream on your bagel.

Jackass

[abbienetvision]

poopforbrain,

You are a moron, most americans support Israel and not terrorist.

So your unit is Taliban and Al-Quieda? Can't decide you love them both equally..nice.

Hamas's constant disregard for the Genava Convention is every way possible, from brainwashing kids to hate, Gilad Shalit, who has no rights, make it so that you cannot claim the Geneva Convention is only for Palis.

The Geneva convention must be followed by all. Hamas doesn't abide by it and gave up their right to use it.

[abbienetvision]

poopforbrain,

Moron, A McClatchy/Ipsos poll found that 44 percent of Americans support Israel's use of force, in comparison to 18% who think Hamas's use of force is appropriate.

Your lies and view are out of the American's views. There are polls.

You have a big mouth, no fact, lots of lies, and repeating them does not make them true.

Go back to your daddy, Bin Laudin, and suck him again, you probably miss the taste of the camel dick in his mouth. Maybe that's why you are so aggressive.

[petersz98]

Zionist propaganda!

The Zionist Third Reich must be defeated.

There were protests in 100 cities in the USA about the Gaza massacre. Ordinary Americans are getting the message.

Boycott Israel everyone. Together we can defeat the evil Zionists like we did with SA!

[popiedo]

agreed if you haven't notice there methods it goes trying to discredit without refuting. This is a typical tactic. Here is how it goes:

1. Lie, lie, lie

2. Repeat, repeat, repeat

3. Deny, deny, deny

4. Go back to step 1

5. If all else fails, charge antisemitism.

[abbienetvision]

poopbrain,

Figures you know it so well, it is all you do. No fact, just lies, repeat your moronic lies, deny the truth, and do it again.

Thanks for showing everyone the Muslim method which you follow to a T.

Go back to Saudi or Lebanon and LEAVE MY COUNTRY, WE DO NOT WANT MUSLIMS IN USA...STILL DON'T GET IT?

[petersz98]

popiedo

I agree but its a sign the Zionists are getting very desperate. If even Goldstone a Zionist, a Jew and a highly respected War Criminal Lawyer tells the Zionists they have committed war crimes and to stop who's to argue with him?

[abbienetvision]

poopissmarterthanyou,

You are almost too stupid to be believed. Here is another poll:Writing The Wrongs: New Poll Shows Americans Reject UN Report ...

3 Nov 2009 ... Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and other top officials also have expressed grave concerns about the fact-finding mission. ... By a 50 to 27 percent margin, Americans believe Israel fought a defensive war and ... is not going to take a soft line with the Islamist 'resistance/terrorist' group. ...

Your figures are made up!!!

[popiedo]

Jackass there all now more who are undecided and against it than for it, as opposed to last year were it was at 69 for it.. More americans find israel itself to be a terrorist state.

Facts haha you have none and the ones you try and present are cherry picked and distorted

Dam your DUMB but you mom has a big bum so its cool.

.

[vardmos]

Dare Gold you are the man!!

the future Israeli primeminister!!

[popiedo]

the amazing part is that the U.N. went to the trouble to get a devote, Jewish, respected judge to do the report where israel stuck to the same partisan, one sided propaganda it always does. In the End israel continued denile of anything wrong with there action will bite it back in the ass.

As the U.S. becomes more and more diverse the typical B.S. given to the U.S. we not fly. .

Good Luck trying to spin it in Israel favor

[rulllar]

The simple fact is that the UN didn't go out of its way to find such a judge, it went out of its way to find someone who is a shill who will make it look as if it was unbias. The simple fact is that the UN mandate was to prove a predetermined condition, and some of the team of Goldstone, who he refused to throw out, signed off that Israel is guilty of war crimes only to then be picked to investigate whether Israel is guilty of war crimes. Talk about a fixed committee! It was a fix from the start

[popiedo]

hey bud guest you got busy, Please point to israel doing a independent investigation or any type of objective justice? otherwise you got nothing and just spewing the same tried talking points. fact that white phophous was used and killed civilians and a bombing of a police station tell it all. blah blah blah,

Many if not all the IDF, Israel Politicians are biased who actually called goldstone daughter to try and get dirt on him to slander him tells it all.

[rulllar]

the police station was manned by Hamas men. Hamas is a terrorist organization with a ruthless history, including suicide bombings, throwing THEIR OWN PEOPLE off buildings. Don't make me laugh pretending this was simply a 'civilian' police force. It was a force created to enable the will of this terror group!

The fact that civilians died doesn't prove war crimes. Israel investigated and is investigating a number of these cases before and in spite of Goldstone.

[popiedo]

haha im sure israel investigation where unbiased and objective. leaving out the fact they tried multiple times to cover it up, hide the information, discredit any solider, person who they disagreed with, then they throw ad hom attacks at the guy,sorry to inform you but israel is losing support fasted in the U.S. the Bull S. its pushing doesn't cut it anymore and each year it's becoming less and less both on the dems side and republicans.

keep spinning your twisting in the wind and its sad

[popiedo]

fact is israel has no creditability,makes no attempt to do so and needs to use ad hominem attacks and descend into personal attacks to try and justified it illegal actions

The fact is and you can try and spin it as much as you like Israel is indeed guilty of war crimes the only difference or argument is will the U.S. save them from getting in trouble and when it stops Blindly supporting Israel. The Fact the PM of israel needs to go to the U.S. to get Pro Israel support tell it all as well

[rulllar]

Israel has no credibility? It was Goldstone who set a LESS DEMANDING criteria for his investigation as he himself said in an interview that under normal judicial style requirement of evidence the committee WOULD HAVE PROVED NOTHING!

So how about you make the case for proof of war crimes rather than say "Civilians died therefore war crimes committed" when clearly the Geneva convention says the war crime is TO HIDE AMONGST CIVILIANS because then you turn them in to targets! Goldstone HAS NOTHING.

[popiedo]

oh they many cases, just a few, death by white Phosphorous, use of human shields by Israel, use of civilians to check booby traps, shooting civilians holding white flags, The deaths of three daughters of a Palestinian doctor who practices extensively in Israel who after some soldiers saw the white flag decided to fire on his kids.

you got nothing, keep spinning your twisting in the wind and its sad

[rulllar]

and that's not me spinning it... it's not me who created a team that made a conclusion before the facts, that's the UN and goldstone. It's not me who said that the factfinding mission, had it used the requirements of a court of law would have PROVED NOTHING, that's Goldstone.

But all this is irrelevant to you? Goldstones dodgy team (guilty before actually checking the evidence) and disregard for accepted legal norms (under which he admits he has no case) is just "spin" to you? haha.

[popiedo]

Israel doesnt even abide by noral judical style requirements of evidences for itself so again it has no credibility. Soilders even admitited their actions and israel triyed to cover it up, saying it should have went to the chain of command not the media . haha

Israel been creating biased teams, reporting for years, the IDF even censored it videos the news and reporting

Again israel is credibility is a joke, keep spinning, your twisting in the wind and its sad.

[rulllar]

Indeed you show, by your inability to address ANYTHING that raises clear suspicion about the commission (not to mention goldstones own addmission that had it been a court of law "NOTHING" would have been proved against Israel).

Clearly you are only a hatefilled person and have no sense of determination in discussing whether there has been ANY honest and objective review by goldstone and therefore whether his points carry weight or are just a fraud.

No critical analysis = self-delusion by you.

[popiedo]

oh hear comes the personal and ad hominem attacks. wow didn't see that coming.

The fact that even human rights groups within israel has documented many of these abuses, war crimes goes to show something in itself..

The fact that israel actions anywhere if done in any other democratic society santions, jail time would be warranted.

if your refering to israel court of course not they finally arrested a jewish man who ameptted killing pallys to the police only 10yrr of trying to kill more.

[rulllar]

not personal and ad hominem, very direct questions as to your direct insistance to ignore EVERYTHING and continue ranting using goldstone as proof, yet ignoring his own testimony that his findings would not be worthy of any court.

Furthermore, how many were jailed for the train bombed in Yugoslavia? or civilians killed while routing terrorists in fallujah? Don't say silly uneducated comments about democratic systems, you clearly have no idea how they function or past investigations.

[popiedo]

and since your seem naive in your thinking its B.S. his name is Yaakov Teitel

I have seen no proof whatever so that israel has made any attempt at a independent investigation into there action nor charges brought or a attempt to find someone trustworthy to do so. E TU?

wait they did nothing wrong right? but facts say otherwise. no matter how much you try to shut criticism up and spin things u cant

So i guest when you lose a argument you lower yourself to personal attacks.

I truly pity you

[rulllar]

What is an independent investigation? The one Goldstone is asking for is an investigation such as the one after the second Lebanon war or the Yom kippur war. Yet those both checked the reasons for the failings of Israel to prepare for the wars that came. The commission after the first lebanon war was in far different circumstances where a massacre was proven. Here we have cases of civilians dying within areas used by armed terrorists, COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STORY, SO DIFFERENT INVESTIGATIONS, DUH!

[popiedo]

nice diverting the subject. :) a waste responding to someone so closed minded as you presented yourself to be, who openly cherry picks information,misrepresented information, and can't admit israel has been doing anything wrong even when presented with facts showing otherwise.

Your logic is troubling and one-sided,try expanding your thinking and come back.

brush up on real democracies as well since u show lack of understanding on what one really is.

cheers and try again

[rulllar]

Saying I'm using personal attacks when my point was mocking your lack of response to critical analysis of the goldstone report (not to mention goldstones own admission his findings are worthless in a court of law). Furthermore, you resorted to referring to me as twisting facts (attacking my integrity), so to say I'm launching attacks is laughable.

Goldstones own comment: His findings do not meet standards of a fact finding mission. So why investivgate it beyond a standard army investigation?

[popiedo]

Critical analysis eh? I have seen nothing close from you,

I presented many things that israel has commited that break international laws(even if you don''t agree with it) This is also in the goldstone report.

, you have not given, shown, any independent ,objective proof nothing close to back your claims nor is the israeli army investigations objective unbiased

[rulllar]

You have blabbed on about things without responding to my points. Respond to my points, then i'll respond to yours. Lets start setting topics. Otherwise you just blab whatever you want ignoring me and I do the same.

The issue here is simple: Is the Gaza report valid (eg fair and to a reasonable factual level) and if so, does it require more than an internal IDF investigation, unlike any other nation from Sri Lanka who recently killed 1000s per month to Iraq, to Iran-Turkey attacks on kurds etc.

[popiedo]

typical tactics distract from the topic, so your point seem that cause others have killed innocents israel should have a free ride.. haha now thats faulty logic at best

again you danced around the fact the IDF lied about the use of White P. and many of the attacks against civilians.

Funny you don't trust politicians and say they lie yet  u believe 100% what the military tells you.

that and the many other example you exhibited here tells me your intelligently dishonest on this subject.

[rulllar]

So lets start:

I have written that Goldstone himself accepted his findings are not up to any requirement befitting of any court system (yet former UN fact finding missions set very tight conditions worthy of international courts, but Goldstone rejected such requirements).

No witness cross examination, Members of the committee had clear biases (deciding the result BEFORE the investigation, so justice there!).

Before we continue: explain why such a report even be considered?

[popiedo]

so start you call it biased but israel itself limited access to many journalist except the ones favorable to them. Israel was asked to contribute but they refused. so its on them, i seem to miss your response why the IDF lied about using White P. ?, also the fact that israel allowed no one to escape there attack is in itself a crime.

Goldstone asked hamas and asked israel to investigate the war crimes, along with both sides commit such acts of ethnic cleasning

[rulllar]

One further point to consider.

Goldstone asked Hamas to investigate the war crimes they listed. However, as Al Zahar ('foreign minister' of the Hamas government) has stated YEARS ago, the rocket attacks were the main strategic tool of Hamas, and civilian cities were ALWAYS the targets to try to make people flee (ethnic cleansing).

What does it say about the Goldstone report that he treats these as incidents they 'should investigate' when it was Hamas' MAIN strategy supported by their leaders?

[popiedo]

hamas stated because all Israelis are required to be in the military, with exception of course, so there legitimate targets, as israel often says the same thing about gaza and it being controlled by hamas. both sides make the same argument. as you stated the local police were fair game cause hamas was in control of gaza.

[popiedo]

as for ethnic cleansing , bulldozing houses both in the west bank and gaza, forcefully removing the people there to replace with jewish ones fits that definition.

which guess what is a crime.

Both Israel and Hamas has been given a few months to do there own (highly doubtful) independent investigation before going to the further .

Im still waiting for your proof of israel own investigation that was independent and objective? wait cause there were none.

[abbienetvision]

poop.

Ethnic cleansing is what occurred in Gaza, where not one Jew is living. In Israel, 20% of the population are Arabs. Not a Jew in Gaza, that is ethnic cleansing, if you look up the definition.

Most Muslim countries are ethnically cleansed. Seems you just do not understand the word.

The Muslims are not only guilty of ethnic cleansing, but destroying artifacts, like the Buddah, which was over 2,000 yrs old.

Islamics are criminals in every sense of the word.

[popiedo]

simple, israel pulled out all its settlers out of gaza and collective punished all arabs there, while it contioue to steal land, forcefully evict arab christians and muslims from there home, erecting walls to take more land.

so you attempt fails much like rullar's , note the laws to limit, compound and take away arab minorities rights within israel and the court cases against the state, notice the systematic attempt to keep jews as the majority and the law jews can return unless your muslim

[abbienetvision]

poop,

You are not only lacking facts, but lacking any sense of right and wrong and supporting terrorism.

Actually, in 2005, Israel took 9,000 Israeli out of their homes in Gaza, for peace.

The land was green and productive. The Palis burnt the fields and houses and built a terrorist base.

The palis easily could have created fields and an economy, which was in place before the Israeli pull-out.

The Palis created a terrorist base and fired rockets, to the amount of 17,000 over 9 yrs.

[popiedo]

yet you stated gaza was ethincally cleansed by hamas, but you just stated israel are the ones who pulled them out, you also state they burnt there own land but facts show israel often target there infrastructures, destorying they way of living

Dishonest are we.

[popiedo]

My belief on this is to bring it to the ICC both Israel and Hamas, if they decided either side has done nothing wrong than be it.

So allow it to go to the ICC and like you say is correct israel has nothing to fear since you believe it broke no laws. But it seems they have and are scared so therefore attacking and halting the report.

But to act as if the IDF is a honest broker, truthful and never lies is plain silly don't you think? not like the military never covered things up right?

[rulllar]

You COMPLETELY IGNORED MY QUESTION.

WHY SHOULD ISRAEL take seriously a report with so many flaws, designed by people with predetermined conclusion, who accept openly that their findings would not survive any critical analysis in a court of law?

The question is why Israel should take such a report seriously and review it much more seriously than a standard military investigation as any army? Re read my question and then answer, don't ignore it and answer a question you made up in your head!

[abbienetvision]

rull,

Your comments are right on, but let me go a bit further and mention that if any investigation is necessary, it is that of why the UN ignored the years of rocket fire.

There would not have even been a war in Gaza is UN would have stopped the rockets after 1,000 had come into Israel, or 2,000.

The Goldstone Report says that 17,000 rockets came into Israel, so shouldn't he want to investigate why so many attacks were ignored by the human rights council, rather than crimes of the IDF?

[popiedo]

flaws? one like yourself is aware that israel standard military investigation is flawed in itself, just a example is how they handle the White P. the military investigation by your army fits the designed by people with a predetermined conclusion.

You keep saying it wouldnt survive in a court of law but you provided no proof besides the standard its biased therefore. Why should the world believe israel could actually do any objective reporting?

[abbienetvision]

poop,

FOR THE FINAL TIME...GOLDSTONE HAS STATED THAT HIS REPORT WOULD NOT STAND UP IN ANY COURT OF LAW!!!

SORRY YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO CHECK FACTS!

[popiedo]

In the report, Mr Goldstone calls for the war crimes allegations to be referred to the International Criminal Court at The Hague unless the parties to the Gaza war investigate them.

If the report comes before the UN Security Council, the US is expected to veto any call for ICC action against Israel.

On Tuesday, Israel's Security Cabinet hardened the country's rejection of an independent inquiry.

haha your about as trustworthy as your courts,

Bring it to court than and see what happens.

[popiedo]

Human rights groups both within Israel and outside have documented many of the crimes that is inside the goldstone report. and showed time and time again that the IDF is anything but honest in it's reporting.

Your question is foolish and silly since you keep saying it doesnt hold up in court yet don't want it to go to court cause actually does.

israel courts can't even abide by international laws itself and the geneva convention so i see no impartiality on israel part to the justice system

[rulllar]

So now you don't want an independent investigation? Do you even understand what Goldstones 'independent' investigation means? He stated time and again that he wants an investigation similar to the one that took down the Golda Meir government, or the one conducted after the Lebanon war, both were ISRAELI INTERNAL INVESTIGATIONS.

How silly is your argument when you call for adopting Goldstones recommendation to have Israel investigate itself, then say you have no faith in that system? Schizo.

[popiedo]

??? another dishonest intellectual attempt on your part.

The goldstone report recommends(i thought you knew this guess i was wrong) that both israel and hamas do investigations independent or have it sent the the security counsel and of course israel refused to do such so it will go to the ICC unless the U.S. vetos the measures. its you who says it can't hold up in court but afraid to have it go to court.

haha you make me laugh on how delusional you are. no response White P ha i see why

[rulllar]

Furthermore THE ENTIRE QUESTION Is over how and wether Israel should investigate itself.

There have been consistent errors raised by other groups like NGO watch about the interpretation (especially military interpretation) that human rights orgs apply retrospectivly to military engagements, since international law is FORWARD LOOKING, NOT RETROSPECTIVE (eg many people killed doesn't prove a war crime, could have been a stray missile, bad intel that was seen as reliable etc).

[popiedo]

all i hear from you are the typical excuses, just some, killing of 11 civilians carrying white flags must be bad intel right, dam that white flag Five women and four children were among stray bullets right?HRW

"All available evidence indicates that Israeli forces were in control of the areas in question, no fighting was taking place there at the time, and no Palestinian forces were hiding among the civilians or using them as human shields," the report said

oh wait must of been self defense.

[rulllar]

You have not answered my question, you quote human rights watch yet make no indication of where it got its evidence. If it had nobody on the scene, then how does it know they were all civilian? Furthermore, there are recorded cases of terrorists plainclothed without weapons while changing locations (eg pick up weapons once they get there), these too are live targets, yet HRW ALWAYS labels them as "non-combatants".

Why do you not quote evidence but automatically trust their accusation?

[rulllar]

So the question is not now, nor was it ever, are Israeli courts impartial, I think anyone with common sense who looks at how often the courts went against government wishes or actions, not to mention investigations such as the ones that banned Sharon from being defense minister, have demonstrated FAR more integrity than ANY NATION you can name.

The question is whether the army investigations, imperfect like any other investigating body, is enough, or do we need higher courts. Prove the latter.

[popiedo]

the answer is no, israel has about the same integrity as Dick Cheney currently holds, just a few, laws against arab holding Foreign Office, abuse, murder of arab civilians while the courts and soilders do nothing, drag there feet, turning the other cheek on illegal , yet illegal settlements, while building illegal barriers and walls to steal more land, yea real intergrity there haha get real

[rulllar]

popiedo - you are not displaying any evidence but trying to change the subject.

NO country has to deal with these matters as Israel. When Syrians vanquish entire villages of many thousands people like you are not even aware, let alone show care.

When NATO forces killed countless by accident in Serbia there was no investigation, same for Iraq.

So don't be a deceitful toad and pretend there are comparable when ONLY Israel is spotlighted

ONLY Israel warned civilians before bombing areas.

[yohazem1]

@rulllar bombing particulary your home is not a whole ciivlian area, its is your home, dont call telling people to leave their home, is gonna be destroyed, infact all my cousins that died in the 2009 war died from leaving their homes to others

[rulllar]

@yohazem1 Well I am sorry to hear about your cousin, and I don't know specific cases of course. But the problem with war, and with terrorist groups like Hamas who hide behind civilians, is that civilians may die and that is horrible, hence why war is horrible. However: If any army TRIES in imperfect circumstances, to avoid civilian casualties, then that is accepted and legal, if they don't, it's a war crime. Hamas are war criminals, the IDF is not. AT MOST a few soliders broke their orders.

[rulllar]

@yohazem1 Also, as you probably know Gaza is mostly buildings, therefore "your home" is usually a flat in a building of other flats. If other flats are being used to launch attacks, then it is very possible your flat will be in the line of fire. This, again, is the reality when terrorist groups like Hamas want to use civilians for cover.

If they were outside of the cities, rather than hiding in schools hospitals and civilian buildings then the fighting would have been there instead.

[yohazem1]

@rulllar hamas didn't hide anywhere, the is all lies, i witnessed the initfada myself in der al baloh, at my cousins, i found out my cousins died the 7th day, i stayed in der al baloh, people still bought food around the mornings but it was very crowded and all we eat was green olives and bread, hamas is no terrorist group, they are supported by mostly everyone in gaza, no one will rebel against their own state and people even though if they oppose some stuff they do, its for their survival

[rulllar]

@yohazem1 There are videos of Hamas using civilians as cover. To say they didn't hide is a lie. You can't cheat countless video evidence just because you call it a 'lie'.

If they are supported so much in Gaza, why did they have to kill people to take over? To beat people up for having music during their wedding? to hide bombs in mosques and school, and the zoo? to burn down UN centres to help Gazans? They even didn't allow in the aid from the flotilla!!! The last people they help are Gazans

[yohazem1]

@rulllar what evidence, the unauthorized video of a masked man draggin a kid to the side? They didn't kill until fateh pushed it, dont try to twist the story. You don't even know what caused the fateh-hamas conflict dumbass, your saying it is reasonless. Video is fake of the wedding, and they don't beat people, they warn you if its safali music, like haifa wehbi, you can only play the acoustics. Hiding bombs? They store weopons many places, they don't have secret militray bases since gaza

[yohazem1]

@rulllar since gaza is so small, and they didn't blow up any U.N. agencies, what makes you think that, you have absolutely no proof, i dont trust media either, im go to gaza every other summer, sources is personal experience and reference

[QwidgyboMan]

@rulllar

That patently untrue. The terrorism and war crimes that Israel faces is minuscule compared to that of countries like Vietnam and Nicaragua.

[rulllar]

Israel has been successful at stopping nearly 95% of attacks (especially after building the separation fence). That means that those groups, which have already killed well over a thousand, could have killed 20-30X as many had Israel not been so successful.

That's not the point. Hezbollah have UAVs, advanced anti-aircraft missiles, a tunnel network that withstood the US's most powerful bunker busters, they hold out in even in v small terrain. Doubt Vietnamese groups that well prepared.

[popiedo]

looking forward???? ahhh laws were made and israel broke them,that why they have laws. its not your fault news controlled by the military rots your brain.

Dont forget the fact that collective punishment is against international laws as well, but i guess that intergrity of israel court out weighs international law(right),or the dropping cluster bombs when signing a cease-fire. got any more cause if you believe israel is anything close to having integrity i got a bridge to sell you.

[rulllar]

Popiedo - your constant attempts to change the topic show your inability to argue and show how you have no evidence. Your only evidence is quoting ONE, just one, line from HRW, without citing where, and without showing any evidence but only citing their conclusions based on Palestinian sources.

This is hardly proof. If you just want to quote conclusions from HRW without a serious review of the evidence then they can quote whatever they want and you'll just repeat it like a sheep. beehhhh

[popiedo]

haha, sure, delusional is what coming from your posting.

here some sources, bcc, npr, cnn, fox news, msnbc, the guardian, Human rights watch, sky news, human rights groups within israel. google youngfox to see evidence of white P. and civilain death children deaths.

sure your aware of the restrictions on comments? so i left a few links to where i got it.

[abbienetvision]

poop,

Even Goldstone has said that his report would not stand up in a court of law. You stupidity is pathetic and amazing.

Goldstone has said that!!!

The war would never have occured if the UN had stopped the rockets after 1,000 or 2,000 had come. After 1 yr, or 2 yrs even, but no...9 yrs and 17,000 rockets (according to the Goldstone Report) and not a peep from the UN Human Rights Council.

We need to investigate, only why the UN is so bias and let so many crimes occur in Muslim countries.

[popiedo]

Goldstone's conference call with American rabbis.

"It's a shallow, utterly false allegation," Mr Goldstone said of Israel's attempt to brand his report as an obstacle to peace.

"What peace process are they talking about? There isn't one. The Israeli foreign minister doesn't want one," Mr Goldstone said.

"If the Israeli government set up an appropriate, open investigation, it will really be the end of the matter. That's where the report would end as far as Israel is concerned," he added.

[rulllar]

Popiedo - Goldstone calls for Hamas to investigate themselves.

Since Hamas' STATED GOAL FOR YEARS (repeated by leaders) has been to cause civilians to be ethnically cleansed from Israeli cities, and their targets of the rockets have ALWAYS been civilian targets, then Goldstone is proving how foolish and a mockery he is by asking them to now investigate possible warcrimes.

You have yet to explain how such a foolish statement does not show how foolish this entire case has been. Nor can you.

[popiedo]

Since issrael stated goal was to wipe hamas (a democracy elected group) off the face of the earth repeated many times, hamas state since all israelie are conscripted there military targets the same as israel states that anyone working, living, or by hamas is a target.

hamas disputes firing rockets at civilians, just like israel disputes collective punishment of civilians, building illegal settlements.

guess all of the above is against international law.

Sad state you didnt know this.

[abbienetvision]

pop,

Actually Hamas says loudly and proudly that their goal is to kill all Jews, then Xtains.

Israel tried over and over to get Hamas to stop the rocket attacks, but instead the attacks worsened in number and strength, and Hamas promised a blood bath of Israelis if they entered Gaza.

When Israel went into Gaza, Hamas went underground and put civilians in the areas where they had set up rockets and even put rockets into houses.

Hamas proudly states they use human shields.

You don't like to learn!

[rulllar]

Popiedo - Hamas REJECT the Oslo accords, the Oslo accords are what created the Palestinian authority and gave it its power. This is ensrined within the laws of the PA. The fact that they were elected is pointless, they are an illegal party according to the PA rules. Just as if any other illegal party is discounted. Furthermore, they were elected to the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL! They have NO AUTHORITY over the presidents duties, which they have usurped. Do you have any knowledge at all or just bull?

[popiedo]

Now for the goldstone report., it highlights the abuses, crimes, illegal warfare both hamas and israel has committed. Many were known and israeli refused to do a independent investigation cause there were no consequence to be objective in any regards, so therefore Israel could not do this the goldstone report is need so show this time there by consequences for ignoring international laws and the genvea convention. And it going to be much harder for the U.S. to give it a free ride.

[rulllar]

Gaza report highlights nothing. It points out cases of potential warcrimes and abuses that it claims need investigation (hence are not actually highlighted since they are not proven!) Furthermore, as I already stated and you consistently ignored, Goldstone said his own material would PROVE NOTHING in a court of law, so there is no highlighting. Anything that falls short of 'beyond reasonable doubt', which Goldstone did not achieve on any account, is not proved whatsoever, so stop being a stooge

[popiedo]

the hell it does, your so brain washed that you can't belive israel has done anything wrong, many humans rights groups have documented such actions, along with pictures and the after math of such. so again all you show is a failure in your part to prove your claim, even B'Tselem have documented such actions.

talk about a sheep, your more like a lemmings. Again take it to court that where you fine if it is or is not beyond a reasonable doubt. Saying it is not doesnt fly in court

[abbienetvision]

ruller,

The hatred of Jews and peace loving people, of this popiedo is amazing and pathetic.

While we try to present fact, poop, tries to change subjects and write opinions or statements by anti-Israeli media.

USA went to Afghan when they had an attack, but Israel having 17,000 rockets over 9 yrs, is not a reason to go to war, in poop's twisted mind.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that either of us will get anywhere with this anti-semetic hater, who supports terrorists.

[rulllar]

Abbienetvision - people like popiedo are the common sheep. They use any source, no matter how questionable the actual information, as absolute fact. They will quote the conclusions of reports, without seeing how flimsy the information often is, or how it is often nothing more than eyewitness statements by people they themselves say are fearful of speaking against their Hamas government (hence would not blame them).

People like Popiedo use deception, changing of topic as their sheeps toolbox.

[abbienetvision]

ruller,

She or he or it, poop, has probably seen the vid Advice On Debating With Infidels:

The "out of context", "mistranslated" and "cherry picking" defensive tactics to silence Non-Muslims, Western freethinkers and atheists by Ayesha Ahmed

[popiedo]

haha, thats funny, really since i'm from the west and not muslim or arab.

typical debating strategy of you ilk

t trying to discredit without refuting. This is a typical tactic. Here is how it goes:

1. Lie, lie, lie

2. Repeat, repeat, repeat

3. Deny, deny, deny

4. Go back to step 1

5. If all else fails, charge antisemitism.

now lets see which step your on.

[popiedo]

so by your commits your a bigot it seems since your keep making gernalizations and person attacks of me being muslims, Plus a american wouldn't state anything about someone attacking america like you have.

haha you followed the step 1 to 5 i presented below. lie, repeat,deny, lie and call antisemitism, guest you couldnt hack it in america so you went to israel whatever that cool. but is still makes you a jackass.

[popiedo]

oh you still have not answer why the IDF lied about the Use of White P.? that is in the report, and were documented by BBC, HRW, B'Tselem and admited by the IDF after they lied.

Again your methods are tried and weak try to discredit the victims, discredit the often video, witness, picture evidences even when proven correct. So again you a dishonest person who is blinded by ideology that does not help you or your cause . Skipping what you don't like.

[popiedo]

again israel had the chance to cross examine the witness and information but refused Since In court if the defendant refuses to speak or cross-examine the witness its to there own peril. Simply Israel can do a actually investigation on itself it needs not to be refered to the ICC, so the buck stops on them to actually do something, they could always deny no wrong doing like yourself, and let the ICC court to a true investigation and see where that goes. for one collective punishment is a crime.

[abbienetvision]

poop,

Your total lies and fabrications will not stay here without me showing the truth.

Israel has done an internal investigation about all the allegations in the Goldstone Report and found nothing like what is written in the report, in fact, NO ISRAELI SOLDIER HAS KILLED ANY INNOCENT PALI ON PURPOSE!

The Geneva convention does not allow terrorism on a separate nation. The Geneva convention recongnises Hamas as a terrorist group.

According to UN242, which Israel has met, Palis are occupying Is

[popiedo]

Truth ha,

It been well documented that israel have intentionally targeted civilians, example

Human Rights Watch investigated the following six drone attacks that killed and wounded civilians: two of them on urban streets, one on a UN-run school, and three on apartment rooftops in residential neighborhoods.

[abbienetvision]

poop,

You have a big mouth, it seems, but no facts and lots of lies.

Go back to your tent and screw your camel and then your sister. If you are female, go let your pedophile hubby, beat you again.

Don't write more of your stupid crap, with no proof.

I would love to see you prove even one of your moronic comments.

[popiedo]

IDF drone launched a missile at a group of young men and women standing across the street from the UNRWAsponsored Gaza Technical College in downtown Gaza City killing 12. Nine of the dead were college students, two of them young women; all were waiting for a UN bus to take them to their homes in Rafah and Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza strip. The three other civilians killed were bystanders. The missile struck 25 meters from UNRWA's Gaza headquarters, in the Rimal neighborhood of central Gaza

[popiedo]

Dont forget the Geneva convention doesn't all collective punishment as well, The walls they erected in the West bank, Land grabs under occupation, which under the laws of occupation is illegal to move civilians on such land..

How moronic some people are. also just because you put words in caps doesnt make it true, i'm sure you realize this. Stop drinking the Kool-aid and investigate what actually happen

anyways it been fun listing to your moronic statements as well as rullar.

Cheers fool.

[abbienetvision]

poop,

The Geneva Convention does not allow terrorist to fire on countries at will...duh!!!

Are you really so stupid, that you cannot understand that the Geneva Convention does not protect terrorists, or terrorist hiding behind civilians, or letting civilians wave a white flag with terrorists behind them.

Terrorists in the college in your comment was firing rockets and was used as a terrorist base and storage facility for terrorist rockets,that have no aim but to kill innocents

Collective terror

[popiedo]

yes personal attacks but is cool i understand how you respond when your beaten, you only needs to look at your responses to see this.

Ranting is something i see from you not the other way around one such as yourself can not admit that israel has committed war crimes i sent you a email explaining it and you have not responded. coincidence? Isarel had a chance to have input in the report but instead choose not to and say none absoluty none of there soldiers would face crimes even with proof.

[popiedo]

Define what is white phosphorus . Define why its illegal to use in close corners? Define its use?

explain why the IDF denied using it?explain why the IDF than admitted the using it after repeatedly denying it did? the times (IDF) said that media buzz had forced the army to withdraw the shells from its arsenal on January 7 - the day that The Times obtained photographs of stockpiles and two days after the newspaper had exposed the effect of white phosphorus on the population of Gaza

[popiedo]

Until now the IDF has denied the Times accounts. On January 7 a military spokeman said that the shells in question had no explosives and no white phosphorus. Yet it was clear from yesterday's briefing by Major-General Dan Harel, the IDF Deputy Chief of Staff, that commanders were concerned by the controversy. Since this was a big buzz in the media, we issued an order 7 Jan '09 to stop using white phosphorus shells, he said

please explain that? or do you not have the integrity to admit it.

[rigonbingo]

hay had there chance to creat there a new life but instad threy fired rockedts on israel town !!! for that the palatniens shouwd say thenk you for not been eraizd from the map !! they didnt do so !!!! instad they calld the phones of the peple saying get out for not been hit !!!

inst that engouth ?? the un as an arab majoreti .. they can approve any decstion they want they can say that the world is flat and they will accept it!!!

[rigonbingo]

israel will live forever !!!!

and yes peace process you fucking cunt!!!

israel ad witdrow from gaza?? isnt that engouh to you ??? t

[hrmIwonder]

Peace process? That's about the biggest load of bull I've heard.

[IamaZionistGoy]

gallbladder report does not have any truth.

[swamimans]

the truth is the behaviour of jewish people

[IamaZionistGoy]

get away from me bomb belt

[swamimans]

you must be talking about irgun and the stern gang who introduced terrorism. israel is coming to a end bloodsucker.