The Home Scientist 013 - Cheap Sulfuric Acid, Part I

[hydriodic]

I wish this guy still made videos

[Deoxyribonucleon]

In my country, you can get 98% H2SO4 drain cleaner in hardware stores. It is surprisingly clean. It is clear and almost fully colourless.

[PyroPudding]

I could not find at ace hardware!!!!

[JasonEldur]

why can't i hear the audio?, I can see the levels bumping but no sound. other youtube vids play.

[oneofusall]

Hi! How would you turn battery acid (~37%) to +90 sulphuric acid? Distil? Epsom salt? I need this to do HCL. Thank you!!

[thatinvisiblekid333]

..i wish i can do that. i like mixing chemicals together and seeing what happens. except you know i'll actually know what i'm doing

[Grimlydwarf]

Could you do something about your sound levels?

[nathanwilefrazier]

So the sulfuric acid is not concentrated enough to suck the water out of the nitration of glycerine to make relatively pure nitroglycerine then? I've heard that even 98% sulfuric acid (which is the max concentration that can be made via boiling off additional water) is not concentrated enough for this purpose - correct?

[spotlightman1234]

@nathanwilefrazier You are correct.

[blackmagic085]

Very informative. I work in a chemical plant using 66* acid (93%) although we never (hopefully) actually see the stuff, it is in the lines. We also use a lot of Oleum, that is nasty stuff.

[HUsoldier171]

hopefully someone knows an answer for me i make copper sulfate and zinc sulfate by making a weak solution of sulfuric acid by mixing sodium bisulfate into distilled water until no more disolves after these experiments i wanted stronger sulfuric acid so i made my sodium bisulfate and boiled it down and set it aside well i wanted it stronger so i boiled way down to almost no liquid left and i let it cool when i checked back on it it had crystallized into really sharp crystals what are the crystals

[spotlightman1234]

@HUsoldier171 lol sodium bisulfate doesn't make H2SO4 in solution. All you did was dissolve the NaHSO4 in water then crystalize it back out.

[algae1000]

Great videos! I purchased 2 bottles of "drain cleaner" H2SO4 from Hank's Hardware (another chain store) each a year apart. The first bottle, from a year ago, had C colloids (brown to black). The bottle from a few days ago was in the same condition. How can I "clear" this up? If a filter, what size and what kind of material? Chemically bind the C? Besides ground glass stoppers, what kind of stopper can handle gases from synthesizing nitic acid via a retort/condenser? Thank you!!!

[59Ballons]

Please answer: Why is acid so "corrosive" but it stays in a plastic bottle, and doesn't burn through a cheap plastic pipette? Why is it sold in auto parts stores if it is so "dangerous"? P.s i know its dangerous. I'm just confused :)

[98JMA]

@59Ballons

The bottles and the pipette have been designed and made out of a chemically-resistant plastic - your skin has not.

[purplemutantas]

@59Ballons Sulfuric acid is used in lead acid batteries. If you run your car battery down all the way it will be dead. You can revive the battery by adding sulfuric acid to it.

There are many dangerous things sold to the general public. Like cars, gasoline, alcohol, McDonalds hamburgers ETC. Unfortunately some things get banned because someone does something stupid with it. But cars are legal despite the fact that people are stupid with them all the time.

[OAbrey]

I bought 18M H2SO4 several years ago. They came in 10l containers.

Originally, the acid was clear, but over time, even the heavy duty HDPE containers break down/char You can see filaments of carbon suspended in the liquid.

Also, I found chemistry grade glass has enough carbon that high M acids can digest given enough time.

Does anyone know a shelf-life of the HDPE plastics in high M acids?

[OAbrey]

What was the original volume of water in the titration beaker?

[DactaDork]

BEST. DRAIN OPENER OF DOOM. EVAR.

[faffaflunkie]

Best drain cleaner ever.

[Lloydy9101]

hey! you are from nurd rage, the way you talk, your pronunciations

[98JMA]

@Lloydy9101

He's not from NurdRage . . . he was just promoted by NurdRage and the accents are the same because he lives in the US and Dr. Lithium is in Canada.

[PYROTEKNIKS801]

you a cool man your like my idol man and i have only seen this video if you dont mind me asking what did you study how many years and what kin of jobs will be available i am looking forward to pursue this career

[TheHomeScientist]

@PYROTEKNIKS80

Thanks. I studied chemistry intensively on my own starting when I was 11. I had three years of high-school chemistry, majored in chemistry undergrad, and started a combined PhD/MD program, which I didn't finish.

[PYROTEKNIKS801]

@TheHomeScientist also what career in chemistry lets you be around more stronger acids like for example what typr os chemist are you

[lexichronicle2]

@PYROTEKNIKS801 There are some extremely powerful acids. Hydrofluoric is well known as it's a single component acid that'll melt lab glass and it's very toxic - making it very cool and earning it a high nerd following.

There are binary 'super acids' that around a trillion, trillion times stronger than 100% sulphuric, coming in at an impressive pH of -25 (yes, minus).

They are used for research into acid theory and fairly odd experiments - they are all, also, toxic.

[lexichronicle2]

@PYROTEKNIKS801 the first super acid was nicknamed 'magic', because it could add protons to an already fully protonated hydrocarbon. To show it off, the researchers demonstrated that it could melt a candle - magically. :P

All super acids / bases are prepared as they're used, not bought or stored.

People who work with them are usually doing experiments on acid / base theory and research.

These are Bronsted Lowry acids, there are also Lewis acids / bases.

[ornottoobless]

@TheHomeScientist I'd start learning grammar. Run on sentences are a sign of an already uneducated person.

[98JMA]

Why dilute the acid before titration??

[TheHomeScientist]

@98JMA

Two reasons: having more liquid makes the end point more visible, and it's a bad idea to react concentrated acid with a base if there's an alternative.

[spotlightman1234]

depending on this brand's age of the acid it can be dark brown or perfectly clear. fortunately i when i bought mine the cap paper wasn't even the slightest dehydrated very pure stuff!!

[coolman2693]

hey man, ive recently been making sulfuric acid for my school project through the electrochemistry of CuSO4(aq) using two nails, one cooper (the other one im not sure, I just found it in my garage). However once ive finished the process im left with a somewhat transparent, but yellow substance, which im assuming is dilute sul. acid with some sort of contaminant mixed in, and when I boil it down, it turns almost a black/yellowish color. and mixed with sugar nothing happens, any ideas why?

[TheHomeScientist]

@coolman2693

You probably have a mixture of dilute sulfuric acid with some sulfurous acid, colloidal sulfur, and other contaminants.

[coolman2693]

So, what would you do to make this experement work? (what kind of electrodes should I use that can sustain such oxydizing conditions and not erode?)

Thanks for your help.

[Rannyfash]

@coolman2693 dude, the other random nail you found would have to be inert to sulphuric acid and be inert with a current passed through it or it would have just formed a sulphate salt, e.g iron sulphate if your nail was made of iron

[b1912313]

@coolman2693 did you make it?

[gck1953]

@coolman2693 No doubt it is the addition of that cooper (sic) to the admixture which has eff'ed up your 'speriment bubba.

[TakronRust]

You could seriously use a stir plate. I've noticed in your video you don't have one.

[TheHomeScientist]

@TakronRust

Oh, I have lots of stuff that doesn't show up in the videos. I use only things that viewers are likely to have around the house or can buy inexpensively, so that rules out stuff I'd like to use like hotplate/stirrers, ground-glass distillation setups, UV/Vis spectrophotometer, GC/MS, NMR, and so on.

[lexichronicle2]

@TakronRust You don't need expensive gear all of the time. I have had one of IKA's most expensive plates, I have another plate, a mantle that's about $1.5k and another that's about $1k, as well as thousands of pounds worth of glassware and other bits and pieces; like a £3k balance, a turbomolecular pump, 3 rotary pumps, a tube of $100 PTFE grease and a mass flow control that's tens of thousands of dollars from a semiconductor lab.

I still find myself stirring things with a spoon quite often :D

[megamarko94]

Can I boil HCl to conc. It

[TheHomeScientist]

@megamarko94

Depends on the initial concentration. If it's lower than 20.2% HCl, boiling drives off water until the concentration reaches 20.2%. If it's higher than 20.2%, boiling drives off HCl until the concentration reaches 20.2%.

[rgmcall]

what brand is it? most other drain cleaners are just sodium hydroxide based or lye

[TheHomeScientist]

@rgmcall

I mentioned the brand name and source in the video.

[Upub2]

@TheHomeScientist Thanks for the tip. I bought the acid with confidence, after wondering for a few years of its purity. Question: I need ammonium hydroxide without the surfactant mixed in it, as found in cleaning ammonia. Do you know where it is available, or how to get the soap out of it?? Or maybe the soap doesn't hurt? Trying to ammoniate nickle sulfate and lower its pH.

[TheHomeScientist]

@Upub2

You can find plain ammonia in most hardware stores and supermarkets. If you shake it and it doesn't foam, it's usable. I'm not sure what you mean by "ammoniate". If you're trying to produce nickel ammonium sulfate, the way to do it is add a saturated solution of ammonium sulfate to a saturated solution of nickel sulfate.

[Upub2]

@TheHomeScientist

Thanks again. Will watch for no foam. To make saturated ammonium sulfate, I pour ammonia hydroxide into sulfuric acid, slowly, until pH neutral, then evaporate till get crystals, then mix into water until saturated? ... then pour about twice the volumeof ammonia sulfate solution to saturated nickel sulfate solution, mix together and evaporate until get blue green crystals?

[TheHomeScientist]

@Upub2

Ammonium sulfate is very cheap. I'd just buy the solid. You can use fertilizer-grade stuff.

Also, you don't even need to dissolve the ammonium sulfate. Just make a saturated solution of nickel sulfate and then add solid ammonium sulfate with stirring. The nickel ammonium sulfate will precipitate as bright blue crystals.

[Upub2]

@TheHomeScientist

Thanks again. Am on my way to the greenhouse. Might have a question in the near future on separating chromic acid from sodium sulfate.

[iamsogood9901]

u should use burette for titration

[TheHomeScientist]

@iamsogood9901

Most people don't have a burette, so I did it with equipment that's likely to be available in a home lab.

[lexichronicle2]

I know why you've got the heavy gloves on, I wear shoulder length drain cleaning ones when I'm washing the glassware. But the massive reduction in dexterity and tactile feedback has caused me to drop EXPENSIVE glass before. I'd suggest viewers not used to handling this strength of acid use a conical (Erlenmeyer) flask for swirling. I still love them, it's hard for anything to splash out. That's one of their main reasons for existing. Cheap & effective. Perfect for pH work / hard stir bar action.

[lexichronicle2]

oooo you think that's bad. :P the UK price for refill packs is well over $20 for a quarts worth. but I can get the 95-98% band for £7 a litre. at one point, I tried shipping acid the honest way and said to the couriers "this has 2l of acid in it, sealed in it's original bottle". The shipping quotes were coming back as £400+ with custom drivers. obviously, something is askew there, as I get deliveries all the time for lab suppliers at £10 for a box full of things.

[silversleuth1]

Thanks Robert - Your videos are awesome!

I'm trying to drive the following reaction.

Cu (solid) + H2S04 = CuSo4 (aq) + H2 (g) I know the reaction should be heated and the sulfuric acid concentrated. The question is how concentrated?

thx in advance.

[Grundalizer]

@silversleuth1 Copper does not react well with hydrochloric or sulfuric acid, only cold dilute nitric acid (strange). most likely if it does react it's creating a passivation layer, could try hydrogen peroxide addition.. the best way to make copper sulfate is to set up an electrolytic cell. Use copper electrodes, pour in sulfuric acid, and magnesium sulfate (epsom salt you can buy at a drug store or grocery store) and run the cell, blue copper sulfate will form).

[boscostix42]

what is the ph of pure sufuric acid?

[timstoys02]

Excellent presentation, i needed to know about this particular brand. for acid assay work. You have a loyal viewer,as does Dr.Stiffler on utube as MRH2O2. Peace and Prosperity to you and Thank You,Tim

[maxx1231]

nice vid but i literally wasted 2 minutes and 30 seconds of my life from 5:30 to 8:00 . I would suggest you skip ahead in future vids

[98JMA]

I absolutely adore your videos and have found them very useful, but when you introduce the experiment in this video, a burette can clearly be seen on the work bench, held up by a clamp. Why don't you use that for the titration rather than a graduated cylinder and a pipette - that's what it's meant for!!

[TheHomeScientist]

@98JMA

Because most of my viewers don't have a burette. I'm focusing these videos on real science experiments that viewers can reproduce with a minimum of specialty equipment and chemicals.

Thanks for the kind words.

[98JMA]

@TheHomeScientist Thankyou, and you're welcome!!

[funtimeswithflames]

would non latex gloves be good protection to 96% sulfuric acid

[TheHomeScientist]

@funtimeswithflames

Actually, standard nitrile exam gloves are good enough to protect against incidental contact with concentrated sulfuric acid. I was really making a point by wearing the heavy neoprene gloves (which protect against extended contact).

[fbt2007]

Excellent video! I have a new favorite channel. Thank you Robert for posting these!

[discaras]

I got 2,5L 95-97% h2so4 for 28 euro.lab grade very pure preanalyzed.

[mewrox99]

I'm getting 5L of 98% Sulfuric acid for NZ $60 inc. shipping which translates to $39 USD. Am I getting a bargain

[TheHomeScientist]

@mewrox99

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

[mewrox99]

I have some questions about conc. sulfuric acid

Does it give off fumes and do nitrile gloves provide protection

[TheHomeScientist]

@mewrox99

Standard concentrated (96% to 98%) H2SO4 doesn't emit fumes, although there is another form, usually called oleum or fuming sulfuric acid, that does. (Oleum may be up to 130% effective concentration, because it has excess SO3 dissolved in 100% H2SO4.)

Which gloves to use is a personal decision, but I'm comfortable using thin disposable nitrile gloves. They provide an adequate barrier for a short time, long enough to quickly rinse off any spills.

[barbarossaaaa]

@TheHomeScientist

could this same method be used to titrate muriatic acid using NaOH, to determine the molarity of the HCl?

[TheHomeScientist]

@barbarossaaaa

Yes. Of course HCl is monoprotic versus the diprotic H2SO4, so each mole of NaOH corresponds to one mole of HCl versus 2 moles of H2SO4.

[MrForestGreen]

Nice vid thanks!

A magnetic stir bar looks like this would make your life easier : D

[TheHomeScientist]

@MrForestGreen

Yeah, I need to do a segment on building a stirrer from a computer fan or even an old blender. Stirring does get old.

[mildronate1]

whay need titration if you had density

[frenchmen88]

Great video. Personally, I can get 44% sulfuric acid from ''liquid lightning'' drain cleaner (I really like that name). Not bad. I hope the rest is just water so I'll be able to purify it and get a good yield. Is there a way to know whether or not there are other impurities (I already read the msds, it wasn't useful)?

[TheHomeScientist]

@frenchmen88

Chances are it's just water. You can also do a dissolved solids test.

[nucleochemist]

You need some conical flasks.

[TheHomeScientist]

@nucleochemist

I have dozens of Erlenmeyer flasks in many sizes.

[nucleochemist]

@TheHomeScientist You should use them for titrating. They make swirling so much easier.

[TheHomeScientist]

@nucleochemist

Usually, I do. I have a dozen 125 mL Erlenmeyer flasks, but they all must have been in use or dirty that day.

[highjump44]

couldn't you make it from onions

[whybjorn]

I bought 5 gallons of battery acid at Napa. It is stored in a bag inside a box. I would like to concentrate it and then store it in something more secure. Can I find some kind of container around the house that I can safely store it in?

[TheHomeScientist]

The first thing I'd do is decide whether I really need to concentrate it, and if so how much of it. That acid is about 6 M, which is concentrated enough for most uses.

If you do boil off all the water from the whole 5 gallons, you'd end up with about 1-2/3 gallons of 98% acid. Rather than store that all in one container (which'd weigh around 20 pounds) it'd be safer to break it up into pint/500 mL or quart/1L glass or thick HDPE bottles (which is what the Rooto came in) with suitable caps.

[whybjorn]

Do you think a laundry detergent bottle if thoroughly cleaned and labeled clearly would work? I think you are right about using several different bottles. One of the reasons I wanted to concentrate it was just to reduce the shear amount of volume it takes up. Also, I had to ask at the counter if they had the larger size of battery acid. They did, but they keep it in the back warehouse area. It was much cheaper than the quart size.

[TheHomeScientist]

No reason why not. I'd use a seamless bottle (that is, one that was blow-formed with the seam around the mouth of the bottle rather than down the sides) and use a plastic bin or tray under it in case it leaks.

Be extremely careful boiling off the excess water, because you'll get acid vapors as well. If you don't have a proper distillation apparatus, do it outdoors, away from anything you don't want corroded, and wear eye and skin protection and a respirator.

[billytalentrocks345]

i don't like that the sound is on the left side :(

[TheHomeScientist]

I hope to have that fixed starting with the next video. Alas, the first 15 videos will remain one-channel.

[mario8401]

Hello , great video , you mention that you have KCN , is there any interesting experiments with this chemical ?

[TheHomeScientist]

Several of them. I'm not sure I'll do any of them as videos, because nowadays KCN is difficult and expensive to obtain, and of course it's extremely toxic. But it is quite useful as an analytical reagent, alone or as a component of several specialized reagents.

[FazTuMesmo]

If available, we get much better results titrating with a graduated/mohr pippete! :)

[TheHomeScientist]

Well, of course. Actually, you may just be able to see a 50 mL burette set up to the immediate left of the work area in the video. But I just wanted to do a quick titration to get an approximate idea of concentration

[RobertR2007]

i dont get audio :(

[TheHomeScientist]

Sorry. You may not have your left channel turned up. The audio on these videos is left-channel only until I figure out how to fix the problem.

[RobertR2007]

Thanks for reply. But how do I turn up the left one? I dont see any option to make this setting.

[TheHomeScientist]

Sorry. I have no idea. You may need to alter the channel balance in control panel, or it may be that you simply don't have a functioning left-channel speaker.

[RobertR2007]

Oh, that can be the problem.. I have connected my speakers only on one channel, didn't remember this. I'll try to connect a mono plug tonight, then it should work. Lets see :)

Thanks

[22matt19]

i was wondering if all batteries have sulfuric acid in them or is it just car batteries?

[mewrox99]

@22matt19

Only car batteries, regular battries (eg AA, AAA, C, D 9v etc.) don't have sulfuric acid

[22matt19]

k thanks

[cheapskatevideo]

I used to work a job where I would have to clean saw blades with muriatic acid, no gloves, no eye protection ot speak of, but I had my own. of course without the NaOH that we dunked them in my hands would have likely been fried. It was a trick of speed.

[mewrox99]

At my old school they didn't have any gloves (strange aeh?) so I used Conc. H2SO4 and HNO3 without gloves many times

[yahoorif]

same as my school.( I'm still studying in this school though) no gloves , no goggles

[mewrox99]

@yahoorif

at least they had googles and eye was at that school.

[chemlabchemistry]

And I really like your videos. I have some 4 liters of reagent grade sulfuric acid and it's completely colorless. This also looks quite pure, it's just slightly brown. Addition of a drop or 2 dilute hydrogen peroxide should completely clear the acid I think. Is this your most dangerous chemical, as you note? I carry some much more nasty stuff like KCN and HgO, and the H2SO4 doesn't scare me at all, unless hot. Heating a test tube with conc. H2SO4 is scary i must say.

[TheHomeScientist]

Even reagent grade acid often has a very slight brown tint, particularly if it's stored in plastic rather than glass. I doubt H2O2 would clear the acid; the coloration is probably colloidal carbon.

Dangerous is a matter of opinion. I also have KCN, Hg compounds, very toxic alkaloids, and so on, not to mention 70% nitric acid. But concentrated sulfuric acid and sodium hydroxide get my vote as the most dangerous overall, in part because they're so common that people tend not to respect them.

[yahoorif]

well what about Dimethylmercury? are that will scared you? to me yes.

[TheHomeScientist]

Dimethylmercury scares any sane chemist.

[yahoorif]

agreed with you.

[chemlabchemistry]

Now, did you buy the 1.00 molar sodium hydroxide? If you cannot say it's concentration is 1.00 molar, as sodium hydroxide contains about 2-3% of water and some sodium carbonate. Usually sodium hydroxide solutions are first standartised.

[TheHomeScientist]

No, it was standardized. As you know but some may not, solid NaOH and its solutions tend to absorb carbon dioxide from the air, producing sodium carbonate. I avoid that problem by making up relatively concentrated solutions a liter at a time, standardizing them, and then splitting them up for storage in small, full, tightly capped bottles.

[TheQuantumChemist]

At my pops lab at CSIRO they accidently burnt PVC pipe It lets out sulfuric acid gas i believe.or sulfur dioxide gas, Wouldnt it be easier to use titration apparatus for that?

[TheHomeScientist]

PVC is polyvinyl chloride, so I suspect hydrochloric acid rather than sulfuric acid is a combustion product.

[antiswattt2]

youre the first ive ever seen actually instead of weighting the acid use another method to calculate the concentration (: good job

[mewrox99]

Does H2SO4 attack PVC?

[TheHomeScientist]

Depends on the concentration and temperature. At room temperature and concentrations of up to 60% or so, PVC is reasonably resistant. At higher temperatures or concentrations, PVC starts to become less resistant. For room temperature storage of 98% sulfuric acid, LDPE or HDPE is probably the best common plastic to use. (Teflon and some other exotic plastics are more resistant, but also much more expensive).

[mewrox99]

Most drain pipes are made of PVC, so I was thinking the acid would eat through the drain.

[TheHomeScientist]

Concentrated sulfuric acid also reacts with many other pipe materials, but it's in contact with them for a pretty short time before it becomes diluted.

[bamboo4tameshigiri]

I love Roebic.

[wmike82]

Is there any way to purify/concentrate the acid more (kind of like what you did with the hydrochloric acid)?

[TheHomeScientist]

The only practical way to concentrate sulfuric acid is by boiling off excess water, which is a dangerous and obnoxious procedure. This stuff is already about as concentrated as it gets, so there's no point to boiling off. For purifying acid, distillation is the only practical method, and it's even more dangerous and obnoxious than boiling off excess water. Cold concentrated sulfuric acid is dangerous enough; sulfuric acid vapor at 337 C is a whole new level of dangerous.

[OAbrey]

@TheHomeScientist I am given to understand boiling H2SO4 will not give concentrations much over 75%.

98% H2SO4 is made commercially with burning of Sulfur under a presssure bell no?

[98JMA]

@OAbrey

H2SO4 is made commercially by burning sulfur to produce SO2 gas, which is then oxidised with oxygen to SO3, wich is then dissolved in water.

[OAbrey]

@98JMA Right... think this is what is refered to by under a bell....

[69iron69]

Where's the burret dude? c'mon we need percision here! Lol just joking good work!

[TheHomeScientist]

Thanks.

Real Men don't use burettes. (Actually, I plan to do a formal titration soon to verify my results, which seem high; I was expecting maybe 90% to 93% concentration, but not 97%.) I wasn't planning to shoot video of a potentiometric titration until much later in the series, but I may try that.

[Kizmox]

Not bad for simple stuff like drain opener :O

[antiswattt2]

ya could be cool if it was that simple in denmark /:

[dbc616]

Nice! I get my NaOH from rooto as well

[coolliger]

Great video!

[koedfast]

your videos really do deserve more views

[coolsciencetech]

I know! He is like the most well known home chemist out there, and I would expect more views on the videos, especially because his videos are on nurd rage's channel too!

[TheHomeScientist]

Thanks. I only got started a couple of weeks ago, and (thanks mainly to NurdRage) I'm approaching 500 subscribers and close to 20,000 video views. That's a drop in the bucket compared to a lot of channels, but I'm nothing if not patient. I want to get at least a couple dozen decent videos posted before I start to worry about pushing for numbers. Not that every subscriber and every view isn't very welcome right now as I try to get this thing kickstarted.

[clarinini]

@TheHomeScientist

Sometimes, a single drop can make a whole difference, wouldn't you agree?

I love your videos, keep it up!

[TheHomeScientist]

Thanks. I thought you were referring to the titration until I read your reply in context with what I said about a drop in the bucket.