Riz Khan - Secularism v Islam - 20 Nov 07

[Soomtu]

Secularism (worldly), like any other religion ( life concept system) including Islam as practiced since medieval, is detached / distant from the real natural world. All the savagery in Man’s history is due to this distancing from the natural world (Al Shaydaan = the Distant one). Islam as of the Qur’aan is the Natural law (harmony between Man & the universe he exists = closer to his Creator). All man-made life-ideology are false, & by their nature wage war against Islam (the natural true peace)

[TheWindsOfMercy]

Secularism is a political term for >>>Satanism<<<<.

[WorldGlobal2010]

Islam and secularism contradict, its like facism and maxcism !

[sulyman751]

"The Believers are but a single Brotherhood" (Quran 49:10)ONE GOD,ONE UMMAH , ONE LOVE !... THE WEST HAVE NOT ONLY BEEN FORCING BUT KILLING PEOPLE FROM EVERY NATIONS- CULTURES AND RELIGIONS TO ENFORCE AND IMPLEMENT THEIR IDEAS . YA UMMAH HOW MANY MORE OF US CAN YOU AFFORD TO BE PERSECUTED AND EXTERMINATES?!... YA UMMAH WHERE EVER YOU MAYBE ARISE AND UNITE AGAINST THOSE WHO MOCKS YOUR DEEN AND SLAUGHTERS YOUR BROTHERS N SISTERS ALL OVER THE WORD!...

[KaonNeutre]

Heu heu heu heee hee heee hee ehhe hee hee hee he hee

[leotakesleo]

Long Live Islam...Down with Secular Barbarism and Savagery!!!!

[sbaker12]

@leotakesleo lololol...so jihad and suicide bombers are not forms of barbarism and savargrey? what are they? expressions of peace and understanding?

[frankystein12]

Why can't the US, and to a lesser extent, Canada, be more like (western) Europe? You know, progressive and secular?

[KaonNeutre]

@frankystein12 US is mostly governed by christian and jewish lobbies. It's why George Bush make war on "evil axis".

In Canada, it depends on the province. In Alberta, it is pretty near to US politics. But if you go in Quebec, you gonna find a lot more secularized population, like in western Europe. Quebec is much more independent from the US influence for two reasons: Its Catholic past and its french speaking.

[LuqmanNaq]

Some interpretations and immigrant communties are, and some are not. There is no black and whtie answer because there is no such thing as monolithic Islam. You'll have to treat people like individuals and try to discern the answer for yourself through conversation. There are no east formulas to discern the individual beliefs of 1/6 of humanity. The probelm we have (amongst the religious and secular) is the inability to accept and work from the ambiguity and interconnectedness of our age.

[LuqmanNaq]

I agree that being too 'open' is dangerous, to our society. However I'm personally unsure what 'britishness' is, we used to be a Christian Nation with christian social values, however now it is a secular state with technoglogical progress and business values put ahead of social values IMO. I personally agree (if this is what your getting at) that britain seems to have lost a core identity, it seem to be a state without a guiding moral culture (like Christianity used to be). What do you think?

[trigga1uk]

i reckommend the recent channel 4 programme (you can see it on 4od) with kevin mcleod in the dharavi slums and the social elements of what is essentially an economically poor but morally rich area. It shows values that are not foreign to us, but values that are in the past for us and the ending possibility of them going down the same post war break down of communities that the uk endured.

[MrGrandDragon]

According to Islamic law as quoted by Malik's Muwatta Book 17, Number 17.24.46:

"The sunna is that there is no jizya due from women or children of people of the Book, and that jizya is only taken from men who have reached puberty.

In other words, men of military age, were excused from joining the army in exchange for paying jizyha. According to Abu Hanifa, there are also exceptions for the poor, slaves, monks and hermits.

[rawman107]

And how relevant all the jizya business is now, at that age in these times. Why should we care about these precise, stagnate numbers. 10%?!!! Should Christians in the Arab world pay a jizya of 10% now as we speak? Are these Allah's calculations? How are these numbers relevant to our lives now. And why should the indigenous of the region, those who existed there before Islam, pay for these new invaders?

[MrGrandDragon]

And don't you realise how much TAX YOU are contributing to your government and your society? A tax is a form of loyalty and to partake in the society where you are living. In most of Europe people pay more than 30% TAX and in Israel you are expected and FORCED to join the military and pay over 50% TAX! This is the HOW relevant my point is, since you your perception of Jizya is somehow misconstrued.

Arabs do not pay Jizya, no one has been living under a Caliphate since the Ottoman Empire

[MrGrandDragon]

The Muslims as per their religious duty are expected also to contribute an ongoing charity to facilitate the State and the Caliphate. They are expected to contribute recommended "Sadaqa Jariyah" which means ongoing charity. An example is a person who digs (or causes to be dug) a well from which people can draw water, free for a long time. They are expected to pay Zakat which is Alms giving. Clearly if the Muslim is to contribute then EVER citizen must also contribute n some way

[MrGrandDragon]

Indigenous people ALREADY pay tax unless they are "native Indians" who are exempt to a certain degree due to their financial status. Every Nomadic society implement's some form of tax.

Likewise Islam has conditions and a practical criteria. A sane, able bodied male who is providing for his family through flowing income is eligible and therefore entitled to pay. None Muslims who are not male are free, who are unable due to financial issues are free and who are poor are free not to pay

[rawman107]

Yes but how are these archaic bedouin laws relevant today.

Most women are in the work place (except maybe for some backward states where they still have dificulties driving a car) and they should pay tax. My objection to your argument is that you are justifying and defending laws that are no longer compatible or just.

what contemporary society should be based on 1500 years old religions that suited a certain society at a certain time.

[MrGrandDragon]

They are compatible and they are just.

[rawman107]

A typical blind faith answer.

Short, assured and non-compromising.

I wish you all the best.

No need to continue this argument.

[MrGrandDragon]

Yes Truth is short, assured and non compromising

[rawman107]

That seems more like fundamentalism to me. Truth is nuances, human, ever changing and accomodating.

Cheers

[MrGrandDragon]

Acting upon the fundamentals is a good thing.

Yes truth has many aspects to it. The fundamentals are assured and explicit.

[Raahorakhty]

Does Riz Khan sing the song in the beginning?

[Gawwad1982]

7:10 couldn't have said it better myself.

[Oromo101]

Why should western values be the benchmark for the rest of the world.

[pagancornflake]

It shouldnt, it should stay in the western areas where there is support for it.

[Oromo101]

Islam well always be it's own ideology no matter what you want to dress it.

[notoriousmuq]

30. The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah.s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

[notoriousmuq]

31. They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).

[notoriousmuq]

32. Fain would they extinguish Allah.s light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).

Quran 9:30-32

[mammaTurki]

Look at that frech 's enghlish ! I waiggan fiurrstt teahhht, yeass , isleaam seccularizm in eyuruup and freeenchh reipubbliciee de

[farazilu1]

double headed snake.

what if in Muslim states like Pakistan ban Alcohol for non-Muslims and say try to integrate. its not integration its operation and imposing. so same is with Muslims in Europe. European non believers or Christians has problem with there church but no Muslim has problem with Mosque.

[mimeNo9]

The first caller was awesome with his statements.  Good on you!

It defies imagination that a nation like France that prides itself for freedom, fashion, sophistication and modernity could regulate a woman's right to choose her clothing.

[rawman107]

Right, unlike these so called Muslim nations, that are very tolorente to minorities, women, and gays and lesbians, right??? Right?

I am yet to see one Muslim intellectual criticising these divisive laws in that archaic religion.

[mimeNo9]

Those "so called Muslim nations" don't boast about being "free" like hypocritical France. And those nations don't have a notable fashion capital like Paris, France.

[rawman107]

Yes they do boast all the time, "us the free and superior", because their religion has the last word (message) Khatemat al anbiya' bla bla, because their women are not whore like those western women (a hard thing to agree upon telling from my personal experience).

Those Islamic nations are nothing but backward, corrupt, colonial self-serving entities.

Living between a dogmatic archaic, religion, flagrant consumerism and violence.

Good luck...

[MrGrandDragon]

So women who dress with modesty and don't sexualise their bodies are whores? I suppose those who do dress to impress are far worse then whores.

[dadarocks]

And then there is small matter of 2.5% zakkat and upto 40% Jazya tax.. go figure.. secularism and islam never go well together

[sameer9900]

can u give me reference that jizya was 40%

[MrGrandDragon]

The Poll Tax was NOT 50 nor 40%. That is an invented myth.

Islamic Law states that if Jews trade in Muslim countries, coming and going in them, a tenth is taken from what they invest in such trade. This is because jizya is only imposed on them on conditions, which they have agreed on. {Muwatta Book 17, Number 17.24.46}. Live stock was accepted as payment Book 17, Number 17.24.45) . Therefore, the true Islamic tax rate for non-military joining Jews was 10%, not the mythical amount of 50%

[dadarocks]

people are making coexistance of non-muslims as dhimmi in muslims state as some kind of secularism .. it's anything but secualrism. islam has always had zero tolerance for others unless they pay hafta (jazya)

Before someonf u bark on the lines of we pay zakatt .. here is the bottomline

Zakat payment doesn;t come with the intention of humiliating those who pay unlike Jazya tax.. go read hadith/quran

[aburebecca]

Truly excellent peace of History we hope Mr Roi can come to terms with Islam as a religion and believe in it, his work i believe to my understanding is rather excellent. Peace to All who follow True Guidance (knowledge).

[moali68]

please increase the volume in the future this video comes over very quietly.

[bmodest]

There is a history of secularist thought in Muslim history as found in the works of Avicenna and Averroes in the 12th century. The turn away from Secularist thought in the Muslim world today has much to do with the dark legacy of Secular dictators throughout the Muslim world which persists today in Egypt, Syria, Uzbekistan, etc. The West has a dark history with a totalitarian Church, we have a dark history with totalitarian Secularism.