Had to log in to sing the praises of this film. Portrays EXTREMELY outspoken pro-lifers as the nuts they generally seem to be but also makes it clear that an abortion is a dire and fairly tragic thing. Not a condemnation or a validation. Just an incredible movie.
Fuck we are a wacky hybrid species. An animal that is slowly becoming something else. If you were to track our progress on an evolutionary chart were definitely in the teenage years of human evolution. As far as abortion I think the women has the right to choose but god damn man thats a heavy thing to kill a baby. If a ladies on her fourth or fifth abortion I think they should just get rid of her....
the people in the pro life movement in this documentary are honestly scary, ive been pro choice and came into this film with an open mind, after watching it i understood better the views on pro lifers but still believe it is a womans right to choose.
the part towards the end when the news surfaced about the doctor who was murdered in his own home who had 4 children REALLY makes the pro life movement look bad.
I think a lot of this argument is down to drawing the line between the time a fetus stops being part of a woman's body and starts being an independently functioning human being.
That line would be at conception. Medically & scientifically, her child is never "part" of the woman's body, but is an entirely unique human being. Yes, her child relies on her for sustenance and protection, that's completely natural. Also newborns rely on their mothers for sustenance and security - and we prosecute mothers who kill their children. A change of size, environment or development doesn't change our humanity. And every human depends entirely on everyone else.
Morality can't possibly ever be dictated to you, even if it's on stone tablets. Morality requires a person to think for themselves. Morality requires a person to subjectively consider the feelings (happiness vs. suffering) of other sentient beings.
Even christian moral philosophers might consider genocide less justifiable than fetal abortion.
Of course christianity and moral philosophy is really just an oxymoron; christianity only confuses any serious moral philosopher. Trying to base your morality on the Bible will only impair your innate human morality.
I don't personally think abortionists should be killed. But let me put things in a bit better perspective so that people might understand where Christians are coming from. The Bible says that a murderer should be put to death. Because it is better to put down one GUILTY life for the sake of one or more INNOCENT lives. And the Bible says that abortion is murder. That's the logic of the people that kill abortion doctors. But even though I'm Christian, I wouldn't kill an abortion doctor...
@FUCKyourGODmyth I read some of your comments. And there is no way I will genuinely answer your question. You target Christians and just immaturely insult us. So I will not answer your question or reply again. You have no intention of being serious. Just look at your channel name. Do you think I want to get into some childish online battle? I assume that's what you do on a day-to-day basis, So...bye
@jpatton1989 - Wow, that was a lot of unnecessary rhetoric. All I asked for was a biblical verse to support your claim. I guess you're just full of shit like every other christian.
@FUCKyourGODmyth Exactly. Be insulting and rude. Then I'll answer your question. lol
You think Christians are so stupid. Yet you think you can ask somebody a question and in the same sentence call them names...and expect them to answer that question.
@jpatton1989 - Don't pretend you haven't answered my question because I've insulted you. You haven't provided a biblical reference for your claim, "the Bible says that abortion is murder," simply because your claim is as imaginary as your god.
This is one of those times when a christard finds himself in an awkward situation, unable to defend his pious claim. Now would be a good time to kill yourself and go be with Jesus.
@jpatton1989 - You're obviously just another delusional christard and probably lack the necessary comprehension skills required to read a book. It's too bad the Bible doesn't address abortion, another missed opportunity to correct its imbalance of moral absurdities. Leviticus ch.20, vs.9 - Everyone who curses his father or mother shall be put to death. KJV
I'm no moral philosopher, but aborting unborn children should be easier (even for christards) to defend than stoning teenagers to death
@jpatton1989 - Just in case I haven't already thoroughly kicked your ass and you're still thinking about trying to use the Bible to defend your indefensible position on abortion, don't forget about all the genocide supposedly committed per God's instruction.
And as it turns out, there's a biblical reference supporting MY claim. Classic genocide per God's instructions - the Israelites utterly destroyed the men, women and the little ones, leaving none to remain. - Deuteronomy 2:33-36
@jpatton1989 - Hey here's some more good news for all of you following the morality of the Bible. (unless of course you're an unfortunate slave)
It's okay to beat your slaves; even if they die you won't be punished, just as long as they survive a day or two after the beating. (see Exodus 21:20-21)
But avoid excessive damage to their eyes or teeth. Otherwise you may have to set them free. (Exodus 21:26-27)
@jpatton1989 - I'm not mad at you personally. You're probably quite a decent person; most are. You've simply had your sense of morality twisted by the cult of christianity. I once held similar beliefs as you. When I was younger, I believed Jesus had resurrected and abortion was immoral, but as I matured and learned how to discern fact from fiction, I realized these things weren't true. I'd strongly encourage you to watch this movie and pay very close attention everytime Prof. Noam Chomsky talks.
@jpatton1989 - If you recall, our correspondence started when I asked for a biblical reference to back your claim that "the bible says abortion is murder."
Instead of intelligently engaging the dialogue and replying with chapter and verse, you provoked me with meaningless rhetoric over and over.
It's obvious from my screen-name, I'm not trying to hide my distaste for religious cults. What you perceived as anger was really just my disgust for willful ignorance parading as moral authority.
@FUCKyourGODmyth willful ignorance? I'm CHOOSING not to answer your questions, because u will just argue EVERY SINGLE point I make. How is that ignorance? I know your type. You get joy out of belittling innocent, faithful ppl. Christians do not do a single thing to u. U may find us irritating. But so what? U have so much hate that u have a channel devoted to insulting Christians. Yes, that's what it is. I've seen your posts. U don't want to intelligently disprove Christians. U want to bully them
@jpatton1989 - Yes, willful ignorance! Faith is what you're left with when you don't have good reasons (ie. evidence). If there's good reasons for believing something, it doesn't require any faith. And that's precisely why faith is presented as something desirable and admirable by cult leaders. Sorry if you're offended, but your cult is like a parasite on the ass of society. So yeah, I'm more than happy to point out all the inconsistencies, contradictions, and absurdities in your religion.
@jpatton1989 - Besides the obvious difference in our worldviews, there's one key difference between someone like you and someone like me. I was raised in a christian home. I regularly attended church. I went to a christian school. I understand very well what, how, and why christians think what they do. You merely assume to understand what and how I think. If you really did understand me and what I think, you wouldn't be a christian anymore. So, be careful presuming to know what I think.
@FUCKyourGODmyth Who cares about WHY you think what you do? Just because you view that you have such a great understanding of Christianity (and maybe you do)doesn't mean you should be stomping around the internet insulting Christians that haven't done a thing to you. You can disagree with our beliefs. But your channel is devoted to being immature and fighting with people online, like a child. Even you name is meant to make people mad. That's ALL YOU DO. You're immature. You know it's true.
@jpatton1989 - This is a refutation to your claim, "Christians that haven't done a thing to you."
Considering even tolerant christians provide a sort of cover for the really bat-shit fundies, the following grievances are levied against all members of the cult of christianity. Your retarded sense of morality allows, enables, and facilitates various forms of exploitation and oppression of women, minorities, and those who are poor or uneducated - which directly effects me as a member of society
Other examples include efforts to ban or limit abortion, stem-cell research, and other scientific study including biological evolution. All these things effect me as a member of society. And don't even try to pretend you're the victim; it's you who is the oppressor - the bully, probably ignorant of most of your trespasses, but a bully none-the-less so FUCK-YOU!
@FUCKyourGODmyth Hey. Remember when I said you act like a child? And you will ALWAYS resort to immature name-calling? Well, you've proven me right, time and time again. And u know. I haven't argued with u at all. But you continue to comment back with debate arguments, as if I'm going to seriously consider what you're saying. You care so much about being right and insulting Christians that you will argue with a wall. I mean, I'm not going to debate you, but you keep on forcing your beliefs on me
@jpatton1989 - Delusional christards are incapable of rational debate. I've already knocked your dick in the dirt a couple of times. Who are you kidding? Even if you tried, you'd just get your head handed to you. You can't win, theotards are always on the losing side. It's like THINKER vs NON-thinker, smart VS dumb. Wake up and smell the coffee dipshit!
Coming from you? Bro...I've seen your comments on other videos/channels of your almighty rational thinking. You just yell and swear until the other person is the bigger man and just stops replying.
I'm so incapable of thinking, yet your the one that WANTED to debate me. YOU started this. If I'm so dumb, why bother? The funniest thing is that you think you've overcome me. Any sane person reading our little debate here would see how crazy you are.
@jpatton1989 - What exactly are we debating? You said, "the bible says abortion is murder?" I asked for the biblical reference. You still haven't found it yet! Or did all my naughty words make you forget?
If that was a debate, it sure didn't last long. Just one simple question shut you down. You got called out for showing your ignorance of the bible and your twisted sense of morality. You're obviously incapable of backing up your claim. I guess now you're just showing your stupidity!
@jpatton1989 - Oh, I got it now! Apparently we've had some sort of misunderstanding. Your use of the English language has eluded me til now. You keep talking about "debating" but apparently that's some new slang word you christards came up with. See, I thought you were litterally talking about debating, but all this time, you've been masturbating. Yep, now it all makes sense. What does the bible say about that? Do debaturs go to hell? Well, be careful, and don't get any on your keyboard!
@jpatton1989 - We've already established THINKER vs NON-thinker, smart VS dumb. With this latest development comes master debater VS masturbator cums, or as you prefer, debater VS durbator.
SSSSorry about the missssundersssstanding. Damn it, now my keyssss are ssssticking! I'm gonna fuckin sssshoot the next durbator I ssssee!
@FUCKyourGODmyth How many times are your going to prove to me that you are a child that insults rather than intelligently disproves? You will always choose to say "you're stupid" rather than "you're stupid and this is why".
@jpatton1989 - (plz feel free 2 use ur slow-wit red-neck low-brow limp-dick accent wen sayin this 4 sur)
Not rly sur y, but 4 sum reson, I jus feel dummer 4 havin met u. Hey, u know wat ForRest mySackOnYourChin? i mean DurBator? Talkin 2 u rly haz bin a lot like masturbatun, i always end up jizzin in ur purdy mouth. Hey, jus kiddin man, least u kept it clean right? Jus the way i like it 2. I mean rly not 2 much cussin wurds frum u. Thats how jeZeus likes it huh?
@FUCKyourGODmyth How many times are your going to prove to me that you are a child that insults rather than intelligently disproves? You will always choose to say "you're stupid" rather than "you're stupid and this is why".
@jpatton1989 - If you seriously want help figuring out the truth, I can certainly point you in the right direction, but I doubt you've quite wrapped your mind around the possibility your imaginary god is just a fucking evolving myth. If you're serious, check out the 1st playlist on my channel - Prof. Bart Ehrman. He will explain why the bible isn't what you think it is.
@jpatton1989 - I understand, you gotta be careful nowadays, there's lots of stuff out there that might contradict what your cult leader says. If you're satisfied with your ignorance, don't think for yourself, just let your cult leader spoon feed you.
@FUCKyourGODmyth How come, I reply to your comments with like, five words and you reply with 3 comments. Lol You must have a lot of time on your hands. I make my comments in about 20 seconds and you write a book every time. Why do you insist upon imposing your beliefs on me?
@jpatton1989 - But serusly if u rly luv ur jeZeus so much, u probly dont evn need sic porn. U probly jus get out ur little crucifix and think about His big Passion hangin ther when ur durbating, n specially when ur christurd tea-baggin friends cum 4 a sircle jurkin. U gotta keep ur eyez on the Lordz ballz son! Is Jesus always in the center or u take turns? Jus kiddin, but seriously bro, u jus wish girlz wud blow on ur wood, but instead ur durbatin 4 jeZeus.
@FUCKyourGODmyth Funny how you keep switching from the immature child that I knew you were all along, to intellectual. Which is it? The former, no doubt.
Even tho the bible doesn't address the abortion issue, it does address slavery.
It's okay to beat your slaves; even if they die you won't be punished, just as long as they survive a day or two after the beating (see Exodus 21:20-21).
But avoid excessive damage to their eyes or teeth. Otherwise you may have to set them free. (Exodus 21:26-27)
@jpatton1989 - Seriously, just think about this. If I believed in Santa Claus and I went around telling people Santa says abortion is murder, most people including dumbfucks like you wouldn't have any problem telling me I was wrong and stupid. The only difference is that you've picked a popular fairytale (ie. the bible) to cling to. Yeah, I know your cult leader told you it was all true and you just haven't had the time to figure it out, but that's no excuse to push your twisted morality!
@jpatton1989 - Have you ever heard that saying, it's better to teach a child HOW to think rather than WHAT to think?
What do you think that really means? Hearing most people just parrot the thoughts and ideas of others, it's obvious many people are satisfied being told what to think. Instead of just pushing my beliefs onto you, I'd rather encourage you to explore what it really means to know HOW to think. While you're at it, think about how to tell whether something is true or false.
@FUCKyourGODmyth You just won't stop talking. And they say Christians are always trying to impose our beliefs on others? I haven't talked about my faith to you. Not even ONCE. And all you've been doing is trying to impose your beliefs on me...double-standard...
@jpatton1989 - Hey here's some more good news for anyone following the morality of the Bible. (unless of course you're an unfortunate slave)
It's okay to beat your slaves; even if they die you won't be punished, just as long as they survive a day or two after the beating. (see Exodus 21:20-21)
But avoid excessive damage to their eyes or teeth. Otherwise you may have to set them free. (Exodus 21:26-27)
Thanks Yahweh for giving us permission to beat the hell out of our employees. WTF?
I don't know how I feel about abortion but it's not my place to tell women what to do with their personal lives. People really just need to mind their own business, it's that simple.
I used to be really against abortion. But I just watched the MTv special, and I realized that it can be the responsible thing to do. Like, if a family cannot financially support the child, I believe it is better to give it up instead of force the baby to live a life of poverty. I also realize that if a woman spends nine months with a child, she will be much less likely to give it up, even if it would be best for the baby. Everyone should know both sides of the story.
@spud0517 "I realized that it can be the responsible thing to do"
Whether or not you agree with abortion is irrelevant to what I'm about to say: Getting yourself into a situation where you have to make the decision in the first place is already being irresponsible. And getting an abortion is a cop-out. It shows that you are irresponsible and immature. Because a mature person can handle the responsibility of a child. An immature person can not. So I have to disagree with you.
Very powerful documentary on abortion ... Watch it. It really made me think about the issue. I still have the same view as I did before watching the documentary but it really opens your eyes.
After I watched this film I was astonished with it, it was beautiful and right. The fact that is was black and white showed that it wasn't taking sides, it hid the mood and made everyone equal. After watching this film I realized that I am thankful for having a choice, a choice to be responisble and a choice to choose my future, it not only opened my eyes but it helped me understand this subject. Its showed me other conflicts and a question still raised...is everyone truely right?
I have a lot of admiration for this director but I am afraid to see Lake of Fire. I have a weak stomach and I have heard there is singificantly graphic footage of abortions in this film. Does anyone know if that is true? Thanks.
@Xephon212 Yes, it's true, it has footage of abortions being conducted. Actual abortions, some late-term. It's very graphic, although the black-and-white lessens that.
@Xephon212 There is also one part where a doctor shows a picture of a woman found dead in a hotel room, having bleed to death after attempting to give herself an abortion pre-Roe v. Wade. It is an unpleasant picture.
@BigMikeMcBastard wow, have you seen the images of the babies in peices sitting on an OR table? just as bad. Your coat hanger deaths though, account for, about 100 a year pre-roe vs wade. After legal abortions, there was only a slight drop in death rate, negligable amount that cannot even be attributed to the decision. And when you consider illegal abortion is 70k deaths per year out of 42 MILLION, the percentage of deaths from illegal is so low, it doesn't even make the charts.
@bluefootedpig I've seen this movie and so sure I've seen images of fetuses post-extraction. It's not just as bad, because they're fetuses. A woman who actually has a life and family and friends and people who know her and love her is not comparable to a fetus with an inactive brain and no identity. Further, the fact that ending their pregnancy means so much to some women that they literally die in the attempt to do so lends quite a bit of gravitas to their plight.
@BigMikeMcBastard So a fetus deserves a short life becuase it doesn't have a name yet? or that the family and friends will not love the baby when it is born? You kind of imply that. And ending the pregenacy, lets look at the real statistics, less than 1% of abortions are related to rape, incsent, and life / death combined. Illegal abortion deaths account for 70k a year world wide, out of 42,000k. Also, stats show that making it legal saved no extra lives, as just as many die from legal abortion.
@bluefootedpig When people say they are "pro life" they don't mean they're pro life, they mean they're pro human life, and even then they're often pro death penalty and pro war, but that's another issue. But they're not crusading for animals or something, which are alive, only people. So what sets humans apart from animals? Our minds. If a fetus has no mind, if it's brain is literally too undeveloped to function, it isn't human, and it isn't entitled to anything.
@BigMikeMcBastard Our life and preserving it is not becuase of our brains, otherwise brain dead people, or handicaped in the brain would be put to death. So it obviously isn't the brain. We value life becuase it is what we are, we have in us the very nature to want to keep our species alive and going. And if it is brain, then 7 weeks is your cutoff, that is when the brain is formed. And again, medical and science has determined that at conception, it is a human life, just not mature yet.
@bluefootedpig We DO allow brain dead people to die. I'm sure you remember the Terry Schiavo case, don't you? It's not exactly euthanasia, but it's close enough.
Handicapped people are completely different. Don't be silly.
Seven weeks isn't the cutoff. There isn't brain activity until around the start of the third trimester. Even then it's sporadic. But you'll be happy to know that even if it was seven weeks, the vast majority of abortions would fall into that period.
@bluefootedpig You're also 100% wrong on your "don't save lives" part. Abortions are incredibly safe. They're one of the safest medical procedures a woman can get. The period when the vast majority of women get their abortions -- the first trimester -- has a rate of death approximately one for every one million abortions performed. That's incredibly safe. Child birth in the US has a fatality rate of 110 deaths per million, for comparison's sake.
@BigMikeMcBastard You might want to look into those stats again. The reason that abortions look safe is because we have no real medical codes for abortion deaths, and on top of that, it isn't looked into. Abortions are poorly documented, are not part of the medical system. So when a women dies, goes to the hospital, they don't have on record that she had an abortion. Also, deaths to childbirth include abortion rates too. justfacts(dot)com / abortion.asp
@bluefootedpig Of course there are "medical codes" as you call them for abortions, and of course a pathologist would recognize and document abortion as being a contributor in the cause of death in those incidents where a woman dies during an abortion. This isn't a new procedure. Abortions have been legal in the US for decades.
I've never heard of that website before. I think I'll trust the Guttmacher Institute over them.
@BigMikeMcBastard Actually, they use the guttmacher, which is pro-choice, in their reports. They use both sides, medical books, doctors, legal. Not just one sided studies trying to prove pro-choice like the Guttmacher. Why don't you trust fox news? becuase it is biased? well so is Guttmacher, as they have an agenda to push pro-choice, hence I read the entire debate. Oh, and no it isn't documented. That is one of teh big problems. Abortions are not documented at all, unless done at a hospital.
@bluefootedpig I don't really want to talk about bias in whichever sites. I don't really care what the people who run the Guttmacher Institute believe. They have the most widely referenced stats on abortion, and that's all I am interested in.
Working in medicine involves a lot of paper work. Take my word for it. Abortions are recorded whether they're in hospitals on in clinics.
@BigMikeMcBastard Sorry, as someone who has family that works in the medical field, I know how much documentation goes into that. But we are talking about clinics. We are talking about how these same clinics have gotten sued and lost due to poor record keeping. We have thousands of abortion clinic people coming out admitting it. So I'm sorry, but the regulation around abortion is nothing compared to any other surgery. And for stats, they rarely look into abortion as a cause.
@bluefootedpig You really have no idea what you're talking about, speaking of the medical record keeping surrounding abortion. It's telling how you think there's some sort of conspiracy going on though, rather than admit that getting an abortion is actually really safe.
@BigMikeMcBastard There is no conspiracy, it is just a lack of conern. Do i think that because some people commit crimes with a gun, it is a conspiracy for all guns to be illegal? hardly. But if guns were not registered, wouldn't you say, "maybe it would be a good idea to register guns?" the same for abortion. Abortion is fairly safe, true. But it isn't safer than childbirth. Hell, even illegal abortions claim less than .0001% of abortions. So even then it is rare. Still there is a lack of rec.
This documentary might be more appealing if it wasn't black and white. I mean it's not a choice of beauty. This is a doumentary not a film. All in all I'm not sure their is any correct or wrong answer for this debate, but would I have the right to tell a woman abortion is right or wrong as a man? 100% no. My opinion on the subject being one who will never be affected by that choice is 100% irrelevant.
@KronantheBarbarian It's a question of human rights, in this case the right for a woman to determine her own health care choices and have oversight of her own body. It's not our place to tell them to have an abortion or not, as it's their body and not ours, but I don't think you can absolve yourself of a voice in this debate. Either you believe women should have control over their own bodies, or you don't.
@BigMikeMcBastard I believe it's the woman's choice. Plain and simple. I'm not absolving anything. Although I can't remember how long ago I posted the comment on this video. *.*
@BigMikeMcBastard Your last statement is a horrible one, that it is either you believe a women should have control over their own bodies or you don't. Well hell, does that mean you don't think women should be in jail? becuase that is controlling their bodies. should women be allowed to neglect their children while they go off drinking, it is only affecting their own body. Don't try to scope one issue, as if banning abortion means women have 0 rights.
@bluefootedpig I don't know what my "last statement" was but your comment overall was pretty absurd and hyperbolic so I'm sure it must've been a good one.
@BigMikeMcBastard Your comment was " Either you believe women should have control over their own bodies, or you don't."
To which I mentioned how that is absurbed to group every womens right into the right of abortion, as if a law changing that would remove every right of every women. Then I also pointed out that women do not have a right to their own body when put in jail. So right there we see that women do not have a right to their own body always.
@bluefootedpig Being able to control the functions of one's body is a pretty fundamental human right. Putting people in prison is obviously a stupid thing to bring up, as if you need me to tell you why prisons and criminal justice exists.
@BigMikeMcBastard Yeah, prisons are there for a reason, but as you can see, a prison limits the rights of the women. The women who goes to jail did something that caused the state to take away her rights in order for society to prosper. The women had a chance to be on birth control, had a chance to use condoms, choose not to. She did something, it caused a result, now society should be protecting that life. She had full rights to use birth control methods, and chose not to.
@bluefootedpig Birth control fails, condoms fail, either due to mechanical or human issues. Acting as if this is the woman's fault and they should be punished for it by being forced to carry a child to term is ridiculous.
As well, even if abortion were made illegal, as this movie points out, it doesn't stop abortion. People who can afford it fly out of country to get an abortion. People who can't do it "back alley" or themselves, and maybe die or become seriously injured. So what's the point?
@BigMikeMcBastard You are right, some will always have abortions. Doesn't make it right. Some may go outside the country, but lets look at some of the 50+ countries that have it illegal, and yet we don't see this horrible event that you claim. We can even look at ireland, which has it outlawed, and there is a lower deathrate in pregnacy than britian (next door where it is legal). Can you cite any stat on these "back ally" and how many actually do it?
@bluefootedpig A lot of the questions you're asking are answered in this video. I'm getting a bit bored with discussing this so I'll just recommend you watch Lake of Fire and let the doctors and such tell you the answers.
@Jenderbender7 You comment is to one of my month old comments, not sure what you are talking about but I don't think I ever assumed that. Are you saying that areas without birth control somehow has the ability to perform abortions? Most of what I was talking about is about developed countries, where there is over 1 million abortions in the US alone. Of those, only about 7,000 are needed for rape, incest, life / death, the other 993,000 are optional.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
RUBBISH!!! Christians are not killing america! But abortionists are killing the hope of america... our CHILDREN! Our future!!! Don't want kids DONE HAVE SEX it's very very simple!!!!!
@bleachrules103 more kids living than dying? 43 million abortions per year, about 1 million in the states alone. That is more than our top 5 killers combined. Unless you mean that the 4 million that are born is more than the 1 million that die, so then you are agreeing that killing 25% of the kids is a good thing.
Abortioin my nuttz niggah......All people have to do iz think logic ya digg.... fuck uh abortion....aint no niggah shouldnt tell no child or any women shit!...smoke they bitch azz.
@pedrohkrx1 better yet, why is a woman always a murderer and a whore when she chooses to terminate a pregnancy she never intended and yet the man who got her pregnant bears no judgement from anti choicers.
According to the laws women have just as many rights and dutys as men however she bares a much bigger burden and instability.. I mean If a women gets raped and pregnant whatever she does she's going to end up descriminated! For crying out loud this is the 21st century..
@mwells219 Because men have no say in the matter. If men could decide to have the abortion, without the wives consent, and that was how it was done, then men would be the target. It is the choice to abort, not who does it. The mere fact that women have the most strength for arugment due to "their body" is the only reason it got passed. It would never have been passed if it was the mans choice.
stop eating eggs, meat, driving cars and drinking bottled water if you believe any of the verbal tripe you imbeciles are slewing across this comment section.
you are all guilty of some form of murder or rape. stop drinking milk, stop going to fucking sea world for christ sake.
look up at the stars and think something beyond your narrow minded imbecilic views of the world.
you are not in their situation. you are not entitled in any way to judge, or chose an outcome for a role outside of yours
presumably because it's superimposed over the image of a cross. Therefore, reading t the right way up would mean the cross was upside down, symbolising a rejection of God and a worship of the devil (as Pro-lifers might say) or how anti-abortionists subvert christian values (as Pro-choicers might say). It's a nice visual metaphor
Everyone has the right to be free and choose what think is best for himself/herself, BUT its WRONG to decide to KILL other individuals who are totally innocent. Nowadays there are a lot of organisations who will take care of that child who would've otherwise been killed.
And what are you talking about "totally innocent" anyway? If we are to go by anything that the Christian Church says, then we are all born sinners, so none of us are innocent.
"BUT its WRONG to decide to KILL other individuals who are totally innocent."
What? So it's OK to kills individuals who are totally guilty of something? Don't tell me, anti-abortion, pro death penalty, is that you?
@veritasedaequitas no one innocent is getting killed. abortions happen to something that is a tadpole without a brain. this is scientific fact. if you want abortion stopped then let teens get free birth control in high school.
There is a great difference between an unfertilzed ovum and a sperm and the fertilized egg. When the sperm fuses into the egg, the moment of fertilization; an individual with his/her own genetic information has been created which has the RIGHT to life. The colour of the hair, length etc.. is all established at that moment. Its biologically stupid to state that killing a sperm cell on its own and killing the fertilised ovum is the same.
Therefore during abortion you are killing an individual
If you do not see the difference between a blastocyst, a zygote, a foetus and a fully formed human being, then you are nothing short of silly. How on Earth would you justify calling the blastocyst, which consists of about 70-100 cells, "an individual"? The average human body contains between 50 - 100 TRILLION cells. Hell, each time you pick your nose you are losing thousands if not hundreds of thousands of cells, depending on how hard you dig around!
"Its biologically stupid to state that killing a sperm cell on its own and killing the fertilised ovum is the same."
No, it's stupid of you to state that killing a fertilised ovum, containing a few hundred cells, with no nervous system or life experiences, memories and relationships with other humans, is the same thing as killing an "individual" who is "totally innocent".
If you don't want to have an abortion, then don't. If others do, and as long as it's legal back off!
I'm glad you like the argument, though I have to give credit where credit is due; Sam Harris' position on this matter really helped on forming the basis for this argument. Check out his website, I'm sure you'll find pretty much the same argument there,...somewhere. Now, in answer to your question, my answer would be that the throughout all stages of the pregnancy, a healthy 'baby' is "alive". E.g. in the UK, I believe the legal abortion limit is 24 weeks. If I were a.....
...lawyer I could probably tell you why this is the case with greater certainty. But I believe the legal (UK) argument states that after 24 weeks, the foetus has a reasonable chance of survival outside the womb. I also believe that around week 25/26 all organs are, by now, fully formed, and the rest of the pregnancy is simply for full grown. These two justifications alone are probably enough to assume that the foetus is now a baby! As for the term human being, that's even...
...more confusing, especially when the discussion goes into the area of babies born with birth defects, causing severe brain damage. Is a human the combination of body and mind, or just the body? Or is it a combination of mind, body and experience? If 90% of the total DNA in your body doesn't belong to you (as in, It belongs to other organisms in your body) then what does it mean to be human?
You're saying that abortion kills. Well, more than ten billion lifes dies during the "race" to the egg.. Come on. It's the same thing. I don't have anything against abortion, I feel bad for the teenage girls who gets pregnant in a country that does not allow abortion. What if they don't want the baby? It can ruin them. You just can't force a woman/girl to keep a baby if she doesn't want to. It feels good for me to live in a country where abortion is legal.
Blah blah blah blah. You all take life so seriously. Here is the thing. Let the people choose to have the abortion or not. Why does everybody feel they need their fucking hand in everything? Do you think you are doing any good?
Besides, we're just turds on this earth, really. Not to be overly theatrical or anything, but there are too many turds on this planet.
Lots of pro lifers complain about the documentary being unbalanced. Apparently they don't care for the representation their side received. I think Kaye was very fair and careful in his interview selections. I guess when they complain about all the pro lifers shown being extremist zealots, they were out for a piss when Nat Hentoff was on screen? Maybe it has more to do with the general sort who are outspoken and feel strongly about it. You need not cherry pick to make most pro lifers look nuts.
As you can see in the video, the only thing pro-aborts are good for is shouting over the voices of people who are trying to help them. the reason they do that is because they know that abortion is wrong and its their guilt thats making them shout because they're in denial. They don't want to hear the truth.
Really because last time I saw a bunch of pro lifers outside of a clinic they were the ones doing all the shouting. And while you may find abortion wrong it is not your place to decide that for anyone else.
I'm going to have to say that is false. And I'm not "deciding" if child-killing is wrong for other people. It is wrong and will always be wrong. When you pro-aborts face God, it won't be a pretty picture.
Right. Okay. Tell you what get your fellow pro lifers to stop shooting doctors and harassing young women outside of clinics and then you have the right to lecture me about being pro choice
An abortionist hasn't been killed in 8 months. And before Tiller was killed, there wasn't a an abortionist killed for years before that. Its not like pro lifers kill doctors on a daily basis. Besides, whats one death( the abortionists death) compared to the murders that the abortionist committed?
Abortion is wrong because it kills an innocent human being. Abortionists are not innocent, they are mass murderers and reap what they sew. THEY DESERVE TO DIE.
@TheCraitos that's not the point. the point its you are telling people what they can and can't do with their bodies. and you can't be pro life when you think that someone deserves to die. abortions happen because young women have unintended pregnancies or their are cases where giving birth will cause damage to the mother. if you don't like it find a way to stop all unwanted pregnancies. i hope you try and kill a doctor and you get put in jail for the rest of your life.
@mwells219 Americans tell people,"you shouldn't drink and drive." Americans tell people, "smoking is bad for you." Americans tell people " It's okay to have sexual relations with the same sex." WHY CAN'T WE TELL WOMEN THEY SHOULDN'T SLAUGHTER THEIR OWN CHILDREN?
Please somebody tell me the name of the opening music track
TopVideosGuy 1 month ago 2
Had to log in to sing the praises of this film. Portrays EXTREMELY outspoken pro-lifers as the nuts they generally seem to be but also makes it clear that an abortion is a dire and fairly tragic thing. Not a condemnation or a validation. Just an incredible movie.
ncodyn 1 month ago
seriously, "abortionists should be executed", everybody see's the hypocrisy in that statement, right?
SuperWetRat 2 months ago
how come pro lifers don't picket outside prisons that perform executions?
SuperWetRat 2 months ago
Don't like gay marriage? Don’t get one.
Don’t like abortions? Don’t get one.
Don’t like drugs? Don’t do them.
Don’t like sex? Don’t have it.
Don’t like your rights taken away?
Don’t take away anybody else's.
ThePCGamingShow 3 months ago 13
@ThePCGamingShow Agreeed!!!
moniquitaas 2 months ago
@ThePCGamingShow Thank you.
MusicLessons 3 weeks ago
Until you have been through the experience yourself i think you can all fuck off and are not entitled to an opinion.
gerbilsqueex 5 months ago 2
Christians: The number 1 reason why abortion should stay legal.
therealalexb 5 months ago 4
Fuck we are a wacky hybrid species. An animal that is slowly becoming something else. If you were to track our progress on an evolutionary chart were definitely in the teenage years of human evolution. As far as abortion I think the women has the right to choose but god damn man thats a heavy thing to kill a baby. If a ladies on her fourth or fifth abortion I think they should just get rid of her....
JG129 5 months ago
What an incredible film. Has a pro-choice leaning but shows abortion to be the dire thing that it its.
ncodyn 8 months ago
the people in the pro life movement in this documentary are honestly scary, ive been pro choice and came into this film with an open mind, after watching it i understood better the views on pro lifers but still believe it is a womans right to choose.
the part towards the end when the news surfaced about the doctor who was murdered in his own home who had 4 children REALLY makes the pro life movement look bad.
carousel66 8 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@carousel66
yeah, of course it does. it's a pro-choice movie. it's a film. propaganda for pro-abortioners, period.
how many people have been killed in abortion wars? uh? 7 doctors? maybe? in 25 YEARS!
how many unborn children killed...35 million?
are you glad you were born? it seems everyone who supports abortion has already been born.
ImNeilPatrickHarris 8 months ago
I think a lot of this argument is down to drawing the line between the time a fetus stops being part of a woman's body and starts being an independently functioning human being.
MrKingsandCastles 9 months ago
@MrKingsandCastles
That line would be at conception. Medically & scientifically, her child is never "part" of the woman's body, but is an entirely unique human being. Yes, her child relies on her for sustenance and protection, that's completely natural. Also newborns rely on their mothers for sustenance and security - and we prosecute mothers who kill their children. A change of size, environment or development doesn't change our humanity. And every human depends entirely on everyone else.
1Thrufire 9 months ago 2
@1Thrufire
Many people would say that so long as a fetus can't exist without the support of a human body, it's PART of that human body.
I'm undecided on abortion, by the way.
MrKingsandCastles 9 months ago
Pro-life.... more like pro-forced birth
Jenderbender7 10 months ago 17
GREAT movie, really non-biased.
VirginMarysAbortion 10 months ago
Amazing doc the definitive account of the issue.
ThisguyQuake 11 months ago
Morality can't possibly ever be dictated to you, even if it's on stone tablets. Morality requires a person to think for themselves. Morality requires a person to subjectively consider the feelings (happiness vs. suffering) of other sentient beings.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
Even christian moral philosophers might consider genocide less justifiable than fetal abortion.
Of course christianity and moral philosophy is really just an oxymoron; christianity only confuses any serious moral philosopher. Trying to base your morality on the Bible will only impair your innate human morality.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
I don't personally think abortionists should be killed. But let me put things in a bit better perspective so that people might understand where Christians are coming from. The Bible says that a murderer should be put to death. Because it is better to put down one GUILTY life for the sake of one or more INNOCENT lives. And the Bible says that abortion is murder. That's the logic of the people that kill abortion doctors. But even though I'm Christian, I wouldn't kill an abortion doctor...
jpatton1989 1 year ago
@jpatton1989 - "And the Bible says that abortion is murder."
Where is that passage exactly?
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth I read some of your comments. And there is no way I will genuinely answer your question. You target Christians and just immaturely insult us. So I will not answer your question or reply again. You have no intention of being serious. Just look at your channel name. Do you think I want to get into some childish online battle? I assume that's what you do on a day-to-day basis, So...bye
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - Wow, that was a lot of unnecessary rhetoric. All I asked for was a biblical verse to support your claim. I guess you're just full of shit like every other christian.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth That's what I thought...immature and insulting. You're easy to read.
jpatton1989 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jpatton1989 - Who gives a shit what you think, you're just another ignorant christian.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - Who cares what an ignorant liar (i.e. christian) thinks? And unlike christian dipshits, I can provide evidence for my claims!
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth Here's your evidence. "You're stupid and I'm always right." Lol
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - You said, "the Bible says that abortion is murder."
Where is that passage exactly? LOL, it doesn't exist - like your imaginary god!
Even if you can't always be right, you can always be stupid.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth Exactly. Be insulting and rude. Then I'll answer your question. lol
You think Christians are so stupid. Yet you think you can ask somebody a question and in the same sentence call them names...and expect them to answer that question.
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - Don't pretend you haven't answered my question because I've insulted you. You haven't provided a biblical reference for your claim, "the Bible says that abortion is murder," simply because your claim is as imaginary as your god.
This is one of those times when a christard finds himself in an awkward situation, unable to defend his pious claim. Now would be a good time to kill yourself and go be with Jesus.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth okay
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - You're obviously just another delusional christard and probably lack the necessary comprehension skills required to read a book. It's too bad the Bible doesn't address abortion, another missed opportunity to correct its imbalance of moral absurdities. Leviticus ch.20, vs.9 - Everyone who curses his father or mother shall be put to death. KJV
I'm no moral philosopher, but aborting unborn children should be easier (even for christards) to defend than stoning teenagers to death
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth umad?
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - u typin' from heaven?
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - Just in case I haven't already thoroughly kicked your ass and you're still thinking about trying to use the Bible to defend your indefensible position on abortion, don't forget about all the genocide supposedly committed per God's instruction.
And as it turns out, there's a biblical reference supporting MY claim. Classic genocide per God's instructions - the Israelites utterly destroyed the men, women and the little ones, leaving none to remain. - Deuteronomy 2:33-36
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jpatton1989 - Hey here's some more good news for all of you following the morality of the Bible. (unless of course you're an unfortunate slave)
It's okay to beat your slaves; even if they die you won't be punished, just as long as they survive a day or two after the beating. (see Exodus 21:20-21)
But avoid excessive damage to their eyes or teeth. Otherwise you may have to set them free. (Exodus 21:26-27)
Thanks Yahweh!
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - u thinkin' straight yet?
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth y u mad though?
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - I'm not mad at you personally. You're probably quite a decent person; most are. You've simply had your sense of morality twisted by the cult of christianity. I once held similar beliefs as you. When I was younger, I believed Jesus had resurrected and abortion was immoral, but as I matured and learned how to discern fact from fiction, I realized these things weren't true. I'd strongly encourage you to watch this movie and pay very close attention everytime Prof. Noam Chomsky talks.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth Now you be nice? Lol Bi-polar much? What are you going to do now? Yell and cuss at me?
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - If you recall, our correspondence started when I asked for a biblical reference to back your claim that "the bible says abortion is murder."
Instead of intelligently engaging the dialogue and replying with chapter and verse, you provoked me with meaningless rhetoric over and over.
It's obvious from my screen-name, I'm not trying to hide my distaste for religious cults. What you perceived as anger was really just my disgust for willful ignorance parading as moral authority.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth willful ignorance? I'm CHOOSING not to answer your questions, because u will just argue EVERY SINGLE point I make. How is that ignorance? I know your type. You get joy out of belittling innocent, faithful ppl. Christians do not do a single thing to u. U may find us irritating. But so what? U have so much hate that u have a channel devoted to insulting Christians. Yes, that's what it is. I've seen your posts. U don't want to intelligently disprove Christians. U want to bully them
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - Yes, willful ignorance! Faith is what you're left with when you don't have good reasons (ie. evidence). If there's good reasons for believing something, it doesn't require any faith. And that's precisely why faith is presented as something desirable and admirable by cult leaders. Sorry if you're offended, but your cult is like a parasite on the ass of society. So yeah, I'm more than happy to point out all the inconsistencies, contradictions, and absurdities in your religion.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - Besides the obvious difference in our worldviews, there's one key difference between someone like you and someone like me. I was raised in a christian home. I regularly attended church. I went to a christian school. I understand very well what, how, and why christians think what they do. You merely assume to understand what and how I think. If you really did understand me and what I think, you wouldn't be a christian anymore. So, be careful presuming to know what I think.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth Who cares about WHY you think what you do? Just because you view that you have such a great understanding of Christianity (and maybe you do)doesn't mean you should be stomping around the internet insulting Christians that haven't done a thing to you. You can disagree with our beliefs. But your channel is devoted to being immature and fighting with people online, like a child. Even you name is meant to make people mad. That's ALL YOU DO. You're immature. You know it's true.
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - This is a refutation to your claim, "Christians that haven't done a thing to you."
Considering even tolerant christians provide a sort of cover for the really bat-shit fundies, the following grievances are levied against all members of the cult of christianity. Your retarded sense of morality allows, enables, and facilitates various forms of exploitation and oppression of women, minorities, and those who are poor or uneducated - which directly effects me as a member of society
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth Lol
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - Refutation continued....
Other examples include efforts to ban or limit abortion, stem-cell research, and other scientific study including biological evolution. All these things effect me as a member of society. And don't even try to pretend you're the victim; it's you who is the oppressor - the bully, probably ignorant of most of your trespasses, but a bully none-the-less so FUCK-YOU!
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth Hey. Remember when I said you act like a child? And you will ALWAYS resort to immature name-calling? Well, you've proven me right, time and time again. And u know. I haven't argued with u at all. But you continue to comment back with debate arguments, as if I'm going to seriously consider what you're saying. You care so much about being right and insulting Christians that you will argue with a wall. I mean, I'm not going to debate you, but you keep on forcing your beliefs on me
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - Delusional christards are incapable of rational debate. I've already knocked your dick in the dirt a couple of times. Who are you kidding? Even if you tried, you'd just get your head handed to you. You can't win, theotards are always on the losing side. It's like THINKER vs NON-thinker, smart VS dumb. Wake up and smell the coffee dipshit!
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth "incapable of rational debate"
Coming from you? Bro...I've seen your comments on other videos/channels of your almighty rational thinking. You just yell and swear until the other person is the bigger man and just stops replying.
I'm so incapable of thinking, yet your the one that WANTED to debate me. YOU started this. If I'm so dumb, why bother? The funniest thing is that you think you've overcome me. Any sane person reading our little debate here would see how crazy you are.
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - What exactly are we debating? You said, "the bible says abortion is murder?" I asked for the biblical reference. You still haven't found it yet! Or did all my naughty words make you forget?
If that was a debate, it sure didn't last long. Just one simple question shut you down. You got called out for showing your ignorance of the bible and your twisted sense of morality. You're obviously incapable of backing up your claim. I guess now you're just showing your stupidity!
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - Oh, I got it now! Apparently we've had some sort of misunderstanding. Your use of the English language has eluded me til now. You keep talking about "debating" but apparently that's some new slang word you christards came up with. See, I thought you were litterally talking about debating, but all this time, you've been masturbating. Yep, now it all makes sense. What does the bible say about that? Do debaturs go to hell? Well, be careful, and don't get any on your keyboard!
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - We've already established THINKER vs NON-thinker, smart VS dumb. With this latest development comes master debater VS masturbator cums, or as you prefer, debater VS durbator.
SSSSorry about the missssundersssstanding. Damn it, now my keyssss are ssssticking! I'm gonna fuckin sssshoot the next durbator I ssssee!
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth You must feel good? Every single day, you spend hours telling Christians they're all stupid. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - Christians are STUPID! You demonstrated this when you said, "the bible says abortion is murder."
BTW, I'm still waiting for the biblical reference.
If you had an ounce of intelligence you'd either apologize for your outrageous statement or crawl back under your rock like a spineless snake.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth How many times are your going to prove to me that you are a child that insults rather than intelligently disproves? You will always choose to say "you're stupid" rather than "you're stupid and this is why".
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - (plz feel free 2 use ur slow-wit red-neck low-brow limp-dick accent wen sayin this 4 sur)
Not rly sur y, but 4 sum reson, I jus feel dummer 4 havin met u. Hey, u know wat ForRest mySackOnYourChin? i mean DurBator? Talkin 2 u rly haz bin a lot like masturbatun, i always end up jizzin in ur purdy mouth. Hey, jus kiddin man, least u kept it clean right? Jus the way i like it 2. I mean rly not 2 much cussin wurds frum u. Thats how jeZeus likes it huh?
later durbator
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth How many times are your going to prove to me that you are a child that insults rather than intelligently disproves? You will always choose to say "you're stupid" rather than "you're stupid and this is why".
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - If you seriously want help figuring out the truth, I can certainly point you in the right direction, but I doubt you've quite wrapped your mind around the possibility your imaginary god is just a fucking evolving myth. If you're serious, check out the 1st playlist on my channel - Prof. Bart Ehrman. He will explain why the bible isn't what you think it is.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth No, I will not watch any videos on your channel. Just...no...
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - I understand, you gotta be careful nowadays, there's lots of stuff out there that might contradict what your cult leader says. If you're satisfied with your ignorance, don't think for yourself, just let your cult leader spoon feed you.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth How come, I reply to your comments with like, five words and you reply with 3 comments. Lol You must have a lot of time on your hands. I make my comments in about 20 seconds and you write a book every time. Why do you insist upon imposing your beliefs on me?
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - But serusly if u rly luv ur jeZeus so much, u probly dont evn need sic porn. U probly jus get out ur little crucifix and think about His big Passion hangin ther when ur durbating, n specially when ur christurd tea-baggin friends cum 4 a sircle jurkin. U gotta keep ur eyez on the Lordz ballz son! Is Jesus always in the center or u take turns? Jus kiddin, but seriously bro, u jus wish girlz wud blow on ur wood, but instead ur durbatin 4 jeZeus.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth Why do you keep trying to make me believe what you believe? Are you crazy? Why does the world have to have the same beliefs as you?
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - wud u mind if i rest my tea-bag on ur chin while ur durbatin?
did susej diputs ruoy ekil tsuj eid dna ffo kcuf os tihs fo eceip gnikcuf a era uoy - now read it backwards
Check ya later J.P.DurDurDurbatorton1989
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth Funny how you keep switching from the immature child that I knew you were all along, to intellectual. Which is it? The former, no doubt.
jpatton1989 11 months ago
Comment removed
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - r u still durbatin?
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth r u still replying?
jpatton1989 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jpatton1989 - jus 1 mor thing befor i gotta go
Even tho the bible doesn't address the abortion issue, it does address slavery.
It's okay to beat your slaves; even if they die you won't be punished, just as long as they survive a day or two after the beating (see Exodus 21:20-21).
But avoid excessive damage to their eyes or teeth. Otherwise you may have to set them free. (Exodus 21:26-27)
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - Seriously, just think about this. If I believed in Santa Claus and I went around telling people Santa says abortion is murder, most people including dumbfucks like you wouldn't have any problem telling me I was wrong and stupid. The only difference is that you've picked a popular fairytale (ie. the bible) to cling to. Yeah, I know your cult leader told you it was all true and you just haven't had the time to figure it out, but that's no excuse to push your twisted morality!
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth If Santa was real, I doubt he would publicly announce his views on abortion. It would put a damper on Christmas.
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - If god was real, I doubt he'd reveal himself only to inbred goatfuckers from the bronze-age.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - The first thing you need to do is differentiate biblical scholars like Prof. Ehrman from TV-evangelist crackpots like Jerry Falwell.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - Have you ever heard that saying, it's better to teach a child HOW to think rather than WHAT to think?
What do you think that really means? Hearing most people just parrot the thoughts and ideas of others, it's obvious many people are satisfied being told what to think. Instead of just pushing my beliefs onto you, I'd rather encourage you to explore what it really means to know HOW to think. While you're at it, think about how to tell whether something is true or false.
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
@FUCKyourGODmyth You just won't stop talking. And they say Christians are always trying to impose our beliefs on others? I haven't talked about my faith to you. Not even ONCE. And all you've been doing is trying to impose your beliefs on me...double-standard...
jpatton1989 11 months ago
@jpatton1989 - Hey here's some more good news for anyone following the morality of the Bible. (unless of course you're an unfortunate slave)
It's okay to beat your slaves; even if they die you won't be punished, just as long as they survive a day or two after the beating. (see Exodus 21:20-21)
But avoid excessive damage to their eyes or teeth. Otherwise you may have to set them free. (Exodus 21:26-27)
Thanks Yahweh for giving us permission to beat the hell out of our employees. WTF?
FUCKyourGODmyth 11 months ago
I don't know how I feel about abortion but it's not my place to tell women what to do with their personal lives. People really just need to mind their own business, it's that simple.
Soulfunk89 1 year ago
I used to be really against abortion. But I just watched the MTv special, and I realized that it can be the responsible thing to do. Like, if a family cannot financially support the child, I believe it is better to give it up instead of force the baby to live a life of poverty. I also realize that if a woman spends nine months with a child, she will be much less likely to give it up, even if it would be best for the baby. Everyone should know both sides of the story.
spud0517 1 year ago
@spud0517 "I realized that it can be the responsible thing to do"
Whether or not you agree with abortion is irrelevant to what I'm about to say: Getting yourself into a situation where you have to make the decision in the first place is already being irresponsible. And getting an abortion is a cop-out. It shows that you are irresponsible and immature. Because a mature person can handle the responsibility of a child. An immature person can not. So I have to disagree with you.
jpatton1989 11 months ago
Abortion is terrible and should not be legal, not because it is my religious view but if you have a heart then you know abortion is wrong
crawfdady 1 year ago
@Terriblejew, you are right, judges aren't supposed to be making law - yet they do....it's called 'common law.'
Please revisit your history, government, and or law and politics classes.
RebelGuy95 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Everyone is right when it comes to the issue of abortion"
JD666MCK 1 year ago
Very powerful documentary on abortion ... Watch it. It really made me think about the issue. I still have the same view as I did before watching the documentary but it really opens your eyes.
JD666MCK 1 year ago
After I watched this film I was astonished with it, it was beautiful and right. The fact that is was black and white showed that it wasn't taking sides, it hid the mood and made everyone equal. After watching this film I realized that I am thankful for having a choice, a choice to be responisble and a choice to choose my future, it not only opened my eyes but it helped me understand this subject. Its showed me other conflicts and a question still raised...is everyone truely right?
Isabelanna09 1 year ago
I have a lot of admiration for this director but I am afraid to see Lake of Fire. I have a weak stomach and I have heard there is singificantly graphic footage of abortions in this film. Does anyone know if that is true? Thanks.
Xephon212 1 year ago
@Xephon212 if you have such a weak stomach maybe you should go crawl back into your baby carriage and leave the thinking to us adults
NegativeNick 1 year ago
@NegativeNick Well, I am certainly more mature than you. I'd guess I am also more intelligent. Fucking prick.
Xephon212 1 year ago
@Xephon212 i never said you were not mature, i just said if you can't handle the heat, kill yo self
NegativeNick 1 year ago
Comment removed
BigMikeMcBastard 1 year ago
Comment removed
BigMikeMcBastard 1 year ago
@Xephon212 Yes, it's true, it has footage of abortions being conducted. Actual abortions, some late-term. It's very graphic, although the black-and-white lessens that.
BigMikeMcBastard 1 year ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Thanks for your helpful comments. I will watch this film now that I can prepare myself for the expected content. Cheers.
Xephon212 1 year ago
@Xephon212 There is also one part where a doctor shows a picture of a woman found dead in a hotel room, having bleed to death after attempting to give herself an abortion pre-Roe v. Wade. It is an unpleasant picture.
BigMikeMcBastard 1 year ago
@BigMikeMcBastard That's terrible, that poor woman. Thank you for the info.
Xephon212 1 year ago
@BigMikeMcBastard wow, have you seen the images of the babies in peices sitting on an OR table? just as bad. Your coat hanger deaths though, account for, about 100 a year pre-roe vs wade. After legal abortions, there was only a slight drop in death rate, negligable amount that cannot even be attributed to the decision. And when you consider illegal abortion is 70k deaths per year out of 42 MILLION, the percentage of deaths from illegal is so low, it doesn't even make the charts.
bluefootedpig 11 months ago
@bluefootedpig I've seen this movie and so sure I've seen images of fetuses post-extraction. It's not just as bad, because they're fetuses. A woman who actually has a life and family and friends and people who know her and love her is not comparable to a fetus with an inactive brain and no identity. Further, the fact that ending their pregnancy means so much to some women that they literally die in the attempt to do so lends quite a bit of gravitas to their plight.
BigMikeMcBastard 11 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard So a fetus deserves a short life becuase it doesn't have a name yet? or that the family and friends will not love the baby when it is born? You kind of imply that. And ending the pregenacy, lets look at the real statistics, less than 1% of abortions are related to rape, incsent, and life / death combined. Illegal abortion deaths account for 70k a year world wide, out of 42,000k. Also, stats show that making it legal saved no extra lives, as just as many die from legal abortion.
bluefootedpig 11 months ago
@bluefootedpig When people say they are "pro life" they don't mean they're pro life, they mean they're pro human life, and even then they're often pro death penalty and pro war, but that's another issue. But they're not crusading for animals or something, which are alive, only people. So what sets humans apart from animals? Our minds. If a fetus has no mind, if it's brain is literally too undeveloped to function, it isn't human, and it isn't entitled to anything.
BigMikeMcBastard 11 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Our life and preserving it is not becuase of our brains, otherwise brain dead people, or handicaped in the brain would be put to death. So it obviously isn't the brain. We value life becuase it is what we are, we have in us the very nature to want to keep our species alive and going. And if it is brain, then 7 weeks is your cutoff, that is when the brain is formed. And again, medical and science has determined that at conception, it is a human life, just not mature yet.
bluefootedpig 11 months ago
@bluefootedpig We DO allow brain dead people to die. I'm sure you remember the Terry Schiavo case, don't you? It's not exactly euthanasia, but it's close enough.
Handicapped people are completely different. Don't be silly.
Seven weeks isn't the cutoff. There isn't brain activity until around the start of the third trimester. Even then it's sporadic. But you'll be happy to know that even if it was seven weeks, the vast majority of abortions would fall into that period.
BigMikeMcBastard 11 months ago
@bluefootedpig You're also 100% wrong on your "don't save lives" part. Abortions are incredibly safe. They're one of the safest medical procedures a woman can get. The period when the vast majority of women get their abortions -- the first trimester -- has a rate of death approximately one for every one million abortions performed. That's incredibly safe. Child birth in the US has a fatality rate of 110 deaths per million, for comparison's sake.
BigMikeMcBastard 11 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard You might want to look into those stats again. The reason that abortions look safe is because we have no real medical codes for abortion deaths, and on top of that, it isn't looked into. Abortions are poorly documented, are not part of the medical system. So when a women dies, goes to the hospital, they don't have on record that she had an abortion. Also, deaths to childbirth include abortion rates too. justfacts(dot)com / abortion.asp
its an independent site, offering stats.
bluefootedpig 11 months ago
@bluefootedpig Of course there are "medical codes" as you call them for abortions, and of course a pathologist would recognize and document abortion as being a contributor in the cause of death in those incidents where a woman dies during an abortion. This isn't a new procedure. Abortions have been legal in the US for decades.
I've never heard of that website before. I think I'll trust the Guttmacher Institute over them.
BigMikeMcBastard 11 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Actually, they use the guttmacher, which is pro-choice, in their reports. They use both sides, medical books, doctors, legal. Not just one sided studies trying to prove pro-choice like the Guttmacher. Why don't you trust fox news? becuase it is biased? well so is Guttmacher, as they have an agenda to push pro-choice, hence I read the entire debate. Oh, and no it isn't documented. That is one of teh big problems. Abortions are not documented at all, unless done at a hospital.
bluefootedpig 11 months ago
@bluefootedpig I don't really want to talk about bias in whichever sites. I don't really care what the people who run the Guttmacher Institute believe. They have the most widely referenced stats on abortion, and that's all I am interested in.
Working in medicine involves a lot of paper work. Take my word for it. Abortions are recorded whether they're in hospitals on in clinics.
BigMikeMcBastard 11 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Sorry, as someone who has family that works in the medical field, I know how much documentation goes into that. But we are talking about clinics. We are talking about how these same clinics have gotten sued and lost due to poor record keeping. We have thousands of abortion clinic people coming out admitting it. So I'm sorry, but the regulation around abortion is nothing compared to any other surgery. And for stats, they rarely look into abortion as a cause.
bluefootedpig 11 months ago
@bluefootedpig You really have no idea what you're talking about, speaking of the medical record keeping surrounding abortion. It's telling how you think there's some sort of conspiracy going on though, rather than admit that getting an abortion is actually really safe.
BigMikeMcBastard 11 months ago 6
@BigMikeMcBastard There is no conspiracy, it is just a lack of conern. Do i think that because some people commit crimes with a gun, it is a conspiracy for all guns to be illegal? hardly. But if guns were not registered, wouldn't you say, "maybe it would be a good idea to register guns?" the same for abortion. Abortion is fairly safe, true. But it isn't safer than childbirth. Hell, even illegal abortions claim less than .0001% of abortions. So even then it is rare. Still there is a lack of rec.
bluefootedpig 11 months ago
This documentary might be more appealing if it wasn't black and white. I mean it's not a choice of beauty. This is a doumentary not a film. All in all I'm not sure their is any correct or wrong answer for this debate, but would I have the right to tell a woman abortion is right or wrong as a man? 100% no. My opinion on the subject being one who will never be affected by that choice is 100% irrelevant.
KronantheBarbarian 1 year ago
@KronantheBarbarian It's a question of human rights, in this case the right for a woman to determine her own health care choices and have oversight of her own body. It's not our place to tell them to have an abortion or not, as it's their body and not ours, but I don't think you can absolve yourself of a voice in this debate. Either you believe women should have control over their own bodies, or you don't.
BigMikeMcBastard 1 year ago
@BigMikeMcBastard I believe it's the woman's choice. Plain and simple. I'm not absolving anything. Although I can't remember how long ago I posted the comment on this video. *.*
KronantheBarbarian 1 year ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Your last statement is a horrible one, that it is either you believe a women should have control over their own bodies or you don't. Well hell, does that mean you don't think women should be in jail? becuase that is controlling their bodies. should women be allowed to neglect their children while they go off drinking, it is only affecting their own body. Don't try to scope one issue, as if banning abortion means women have 0 rights.
bluefootedpig 11 months ago
@bluefootedpig I don't know what my "last statement" was but your comment overall was pretty absurd and hyperbolic so I'm sure it must've been a good one.
BigMikeMcBastard 11 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Your comment was " Either you believe women should have control over their own bodies, or you don't."
To which I mentioned how that is absurbed to group every womens right into the right of abortion, as if a law changing that would remove every right of every women. Then I also pointed out that women do not have a right to their own body when put in jail. So right there we see that women do not have a right to their own body always.
bluefootedpig 11 months ago
@bluefootedpig Being able to control the functions of one's body is a pretty fundamental human right. Putting people in prison is obviously a stupid thing to bring up, as if you need me to tell you why prisons and criminal justice exists.
BigMikeMcBastard 11 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Yeah, prisons are there for a reason, but as you can see, a prison limits the rights of the women. The women who goes to jail did something that caused the state to take away her rights in order for society to prosper. The women had a chance to be on birth control, had a chance to use condoms, choose not to. She did something, it caused a result, now society should be protecting that life. She had full rights to use birth control methods, and chose not to.
bluefootedpig 11 months ago
@bluefootedpig Birth control fails, condoms fail, either due to mechanical or human issues. Acting as if this is the woman's fault and they should be punished for it by being forced to carry a child to term is ridiculous.
As well, even if abortion were made illegal, as this movie points out, it doesn't stop abortion. People who can afford it fly out of country to get an abortion. People who can't do it "back alley" or themselves, and maybe die or become seriously injured. So what's the point?
BigMikeMcBastard 11 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard You are right, some will always have abortions. Doesn't make it right. Some may go outside the country, but lets look at some of the 50+ countries that have it illegal, and yet we don't see this horrible event that you claim. We can even look at ireland, which has it outlawed, and there is a lower deathrate in pregnacy than britian (next door where it is legal). Can you cite any stat on these "back ally" and how many actually do it?
bluefootedpig 11 months ago
@bluefootedpig A lot of the questions you're asking are answered in this video. I'm getting a bit bored with discussing this so I'll just recommend you watch Lake of Fire and let the doctors and such tell you the answers.
BigMikeMcBastard 11 months ago
@bluefootedpig You are assuming that all women have equal access to birth control. That comment is a generalization.
Jenderbender7 10 months ago 2
@Jenderbender7 You comment is to one of my month old comments, not sure what you are talking about but I don't think I ever assumed that. Are you saying that areas without birth control somehow has the ability to perform abortions? Most of what I was talking about is about developed countries, where there is over 1 million abortions in the US alone. Of those, only about 7,000 are needed for rape, incest, life / death, the other 993,000 are optional.
bluefootedpig 10 months ago
3rd term? going to hell. i was told that.
ddave40 1 year ago
Is that Alan Dershowitz at the end?
TheAntiV 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
RUBBISH!!! Christians are not killing america! But abortionists are killing the hope of america... our CHILDREN! Our future!!! Don't want kids DONE HAVE SEX it's very very simple!!!!!
A2P86 1 year ago
@A2P86 Children aren't the future. Adults are. And there are more kids living than dying.
bleachrules103 1 year ago
@bleachrules103 more kids living than dying? 43 million abortions per year, about 1 million in the states alone. That is more than our top 5 killers combined. Unless you mean that the 4 million that are born is more than the 1 million that die, so then you are agreeing that killing 25% of the kids is a good thing.
bluefootedpig 11 months ago
"Everyone is right when it comes to the issue of abortion." Truer words have never been spoken.
CyborgTwinkee 1 year ago
Kill them all let god sort them out
cesmith777 1 year ago
Abortioin my nuttz niggah......All people have to do iz think logic ya digg.... fuck uh abortion....aint no niggah shouldnt tell no child or any women shit!...smoke they bitch azz.
yomomz31 1 year ago
Jeffery Dahmer is pro-choice? Even if that were true, what kind of an argument is that?
I've seen this movie and all I can say is that, whether advertently or not, it exposes pro-lifers as idiots, very dangerous idiots.
ral1334 1 year ago
Paul Hill = Man of God and a True American Hero
RIP Paul Hill. Abortionists should be executed for infanticide.
TruthApex 1 year ago
I'm not going to state my opinion over abortion but I am going to say this
If a guy rapes a women and gets her pregnant then why does the women have to carry on with the other guy's kid..?
Because of "religion" or "murder"?
I think that it's the womens choice to do whatever she pleases, wether is it to proceed with the pregnancy or to have an abortion..
But hey, that's just me, I am not saying I'm right, it's simply my opinion
pedrohkrx1 1 year ago
@pedrohkrx1 better yet, why is a woman always a murderer and a whore when she chooses to terminate a pregnancy she never intended and yet the man who got her pregnant bears no judgement from anti choicers.
mwells219 1 year ago 5
@mwells219
Indeed.. The world is upside down..
According to the laws women have just as many rights and dutys as men however she bares a much bigger burden and instability.. I mean If a women gets raped and pregnant whatever she does she's going to end up descriminated! For crying out loud this is the 21st century..
pedrohkrx1 1 year ago
@mwells219 Because men have no say in the matter. If men could decide to have the abortion, without the wives consent, and that was how it was done, then men would be the target. It is the choice to abort, not who does it. The mere fact that women have the most strength for arugment due to "their body" is the only reason it got passed. It would never have been passed if it was the mans choice.
bluefootedpig 11 months ago
stop eating eggs, meat, driving cars and drinking bottled water if you believe any of the verbal tripe you imbeciles are slewing across this comment section.
you are all guilty of some form of murder or rape. stop drinking milk, stop going to fucking sea world for christ sake.
look up at the stars and think something beyond your narrow minded imbecilic views of the world.
you are not in their situation. you are not entitled in any way to judge, or chose an outcome for a role outside of yours
gr1mey 1 year ago
so why is the title upside down? edgyness?
drelladoll 1 year ago
presumably because it's superimposed over the image of a cross. Therefore, reading t the right way up would mean the cross was upside down, symbolising a rejection of God and a worship of the devil (as Pro-lifers might say) or how anti-abortionists subvert christian values (as Pro-choicers might say). It's a nice visual metaphor
TheMonkeySaysHi 1 year ago
Comment removed
Chronolyse 1 year ago
Everyone has the right to be free and choose what think is best for himself/herself, BUT its WRONG to decide to KILL other individuals who are totally innocent. Nowadays there are a lot of organisations who will take care of that child who would've otherwise been killed.
please STOP abortion.
veritasedaequitas 2 years ago
@veritasedaequitas
And what are you talking about "totally innocent" anyway? If we are to go by anything that the Christian Church says, then we are all born sinners, so none of us are innocent.
"BUT its WRONG to decide to KILL other individuals who are totally innocent."
What? So it's OK to kills individuals who are totally guilty of something? Don't tell me, anti-abortion, pro death penalty, is that you?
bettySwollox 2 years ago
@veritasedaequitas no one innocent is getting killed. abortions happen to something that is a tadpole without a brain. this is scientific fact. if you want abortion stopped then let teens get free birth control in high school.
mwells219 1 year ago
There is a great difference between an unfertilzed ovum and a sperm and the fertilized egg. When the sperm fuses into the egg, the moment of fertilization; an individual with his/her own genetic information has been created which has the RIGHT to life. The colour of the hair, length etc.. is all established at that moment. Its biologically stupid to state that killing a sperm cell on its own and killing the fertilised ovum is the same.
Therefore during abortion you are killing an individual
veritasedaequitas 2 years ago
@veritasedaequitas
If you do not see the difference between a blastocyst, a zygote, a foetus and a fully formed human being, then you are nothing short of silly. How on Earth would you justify calling the blastocyst, which consists of about 70-100 cells, "an individual"? The average human body contains between 50 - 100 TRILLION cells. Hell, each time you pick your nose you are losing thousands if not hundreds of thousands of cells, depending on how hard you dig around!
bettySwollox 2 years ago
@veritasedaequitas
"Its biologically stupid to state that killing a sperm cell on its own and killing the fertilised ovum is the same."
No, it's stupid of you to state that killing a fertilised ovum, containing a few hundred cells, with no nervous system or life experiences, memories and relationships with other humans, is the same thing as killing an "individual" who is "totally innocent".
If you don't want to have an abortion, then don't. If others do, and as long as it's legal back off!
bettySwollox 2 years ago
I like your argument but then when does this produce a baby...meaning when does it become alive? (ex. birth, 6 moths?)
MusicCityMiracle 1 year ago
@MusicCityMiracle
I'm glad you like the argument, though I have to give credit where credit is due; Sam Harris' position on this matter really helped on forming the basis for this argument. Check out his website, I'm sure you'll find pretty much the same argument there,...somewhere. Now, in answer to your question, my answer would be that the throughout all stages of the pregnancy, a healthy 'baby' is "alive". E.g. in the UK, I believe the legal abortion limit is 24 weeks. If I were a.....
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@MusicCityMiracle
...lawyer I could probably tell you why this is the case with greater certainty. But I believe the legal (UK) argument states that after 24 weeks, the foetus has a reasonable chance of survival outside the womb. I also believe that around week 25/26 all organs are, by now, fully formed, and the rest of the pregnancy is simply for full grown. These two justifications alone are probably enough to assume that the foetus is now a baby! As for the term human being, that's even...
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@MusicCityMiracle
...more confusing, especially when the discussion goes into the area of babies born with birth defects, causing severe brain damage. Is a human the combination of body and mind, or just the body? Or is it a combination of mind, body and experience? If 90% of the total DNA in your body doesn't belong to you (as in, It belongs to other organisms in your body) then what does it mean to be human?
bettySwollox 1 year ago
You're saying that abortion kills. Well, more than ten billion lifes dies during the "race" to the egg.. Come on. It's the same thing. I don't have anything against abortion, I feel bad for the teenage girls who gets pregnant in a country that does not allow abortion. What if they don't want the baby? It can ruin them. You just can't force a woman/girl to keep a baby if she doesn't want to. It feels good for me to live in a country where abortion is legal.
suugMin 2 years ago
Blah blah blah blah. You all take life so seriously. Here is the thing. Let the people choose to have the abortion or not. Why does everybody feel they need their fucking hand in everything? Do you think you are doing any good?
Besides, we're just turds on this earth, really. Not to be overly theatrical or anything, but there are too many turds on this planet.
Just sayin' bro.
zachamazing 2 years ago
Abortion is one of the most cruel murders that unfortunately is still happening everyday.
STOP abortion
veritasedaequitas 2 years ago
Lots of pro lifers complain about the documentary being unbalanced. Apparently they don't care for the representation their side received. I think Kaye was very fair and careful in his interview selections. I guess when they complain about all the pro lifers shown being extremist zealots, they were out for a piss when Nat Hentoff was on screen? Maybe it has more to do with the general sort who are outspoken and feel strongly about it. You need not cherry pick to make most pro lifers look nuts.
VariedInterest 2 years ago 7
No what anti-choicers don't like is that the pro-choice side gets to voice their opinions.
mwells219 2 years ago 6
As you can see in the video, the only thing pro-aborts are good for is shouting over the voices of people who are trying to help them. the reason they do that is because they know that abortion is wrong and its their guilt thats making them shout because they're in denial. They don't want to hear the truth.
TheCraitos 2 years ago
Really because last time I saw a bunch of pro lifers outside of a clinic they were the ones doing all the shouting. And while you may find abortion wrong it is not your place to decide that for anyone else.
mwells219 2 years ago
I'm going to have to say that is false. And I'm not "deciding" if child-killing is wrong for other people. It is wrong and will always be wrong. When you pro-aborts face God, it won't be a pretty picture.
TheCraitos 2 years ago
Right. Okay. Tell you what get your fellow pro lifers to stop shooting doctors and harassing young women outside of clinics and then you have the right to lecture me about being pro choice
mwells219 2 years ago
An abortionist hasn't been killed in 8 months. And before Tiller was killed, there wasn't a an abortionist killed for years before that. Its not like pro lifers kill doctors on a daily basis. Besides, whats one death( the abortionists death) compared to the murders that the abortionist committed?
TheCraitos 2 years ago
@mwells219
Abortion is wrong because it kills an innocent human being. Abortionists are not innocent, they are mass murderers and reap what they sew. THEY DESERVE TO DIE.
TheCraitos 1 year ago
@TheCraitos that's not the point. the point its you are telling people what they can and can't do with their bodies. and you can't be pro life when you think that someone deserves to die. abortions happen because young women have unintended pregnancies or their are cases where giving birth will cause damage to the mother. if you don't like it find a way to stop all unwanted pregnancies. i hope you try and kill a doctor and you get put in jail for the rest of your life.
mwells219 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheCraitos 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mwells219 Americans tell people,"you shouldn't drink and drive." Americans tell people, "smoking is bad for you." Americans tell people " It's okay to have sexual relations with the same sex." WHY CAN'T WE TELL WOMEN THEY SHOULDN'T SLAUGHTER THEIR OWN CHILDREN?
TheCraitos 1 year ago
Comment removed
sarjesfre 1 year ago