I just can not afford to pay to borrow 700B to keep tax cuts for billionaires. I am trying to expand my business and hire more workers and since I don't yet fall in top income I can't afford to pay to keep tax cuts for INDIVIDUALS that do. Top income corporate tax rate is already set at 35 % while next lower bracket is set at 38% after tax credits neither pays anywhere near that but top income is eligible for most. We need to keep tax cuts for middle business and individual. Vote dems.
@barsense Oh, and just to be fair, I know that the Republicans are not angels either and the Bush administration has a lot of evil to answer for that they won't even get questioned about until we can get a party in power that actually believes in the sanctity of the Constitution and personal liberty. And that is what this debate is really all about, personal liberty.
I had back surgery last summer and they put an implant in me that consisted of two small plastic discs, two rods, four screws, two wires and a lithium battery. It cost $65,000. $10,000 more than what my house is now worth thanks to subsidized, mandated housing loans that the Demonrats wanted. Anyway, I came home and built a duplicate of the device for under $2 out of spare parts in my computer lab. Instead of fixing the inflated prices of medicine they chose to force us to feed the beast.
@Anonywriter 80 % of all foreclosures were made by lending instutituion THAT ARE NOT SUBJECT to CRA.. plus largest percentage of foreclosures was higher income higher prices homes. 80 % that is by far the largest number Had nothing to do with subsidized mandated housing. depository lending institution ARE NOT SUBJECT TO CRA.
@barsense I think you need to recheck things. The dems pushed for subsidized housing loans. When Fannie and Freddie failed is what burst the housing bubble and the economic downturn.
@Anonywriter 80% of all foreclosure were from lending institutions that were and are not subject to CRA. higher income more expensive homes were also a larger percentage of the foreclosure problem. the problem was not Fannie and Freddie lending to low incomes the problem was GREED in Wallstreet and ratings companies bundling high risk with low risk.
@Anonywriter 80% of all foreclosure were from lending institutions that were and are not subject to CRA. higher income more expensive homes were also a larger percentage of the foreclosure problem. the problem was not Fannie and Freddie lending to low incomes the problem was GREED in Wallstreet and ratings companies bundling high risk with low risk and the high risk were more upper income than they were lower income.
@Anonywriter Good for you if you built the device, has it been put in your back to see if it would work ?? I am sure you did not do THAT yourself. And no it is not ridiculous that people that can not afford it or not mandated it only makes sense. Can't take blood from a turnip cause it does not have any. LOL
The implant itself cost that much. The surgery and hospital stay were extra ;) If you spent half as much time looking for viable alternative solutions to problems as you do defending weasels you could make a difference.
@Anonywriter If you spent half as much time looking for true facts instead of just falling for fake rhetoric of the hyocrites leading the right you could make a difference.
@Anonywriter maybe you should leave all of the above alone and get some sleep or something. The better question is what have you posted that is true, NOTHING that I have seen to date. The key manipulation right wing BS words don't work for me and never will . I am in my 50's and I left that road a looooong time ago. Now I think for myself. and check facts on site that don't take sides and rarely watch media, certainly not the fake commentators on the Saudi channel favorite of the right.
@barsense, everything I've posted has not only been true but unbiased fact. Whereas, the few times you've posted an actual fact, you've put the socialist party line spin on it. Just like your previous post -- "key manipulation right wing BS words don't work for me and never will". What key manipulation right-wing BS words? Socialist? Newflash, barsense, if you believe in taking rightfully earned property from someone and giving it to someone else for doing NOTHING then you are a socialist.
@barsense, if you actually do think for yourself then how come all of your responses, that actually pertain to the debate, have mimicked the party line, sometimes word for word? See, I DO check facts, that is sort of my job and purpose in life. And please clarify what Saudi channel is favored by the right? Do they have BBC or SyFy in Saudi?
@barsense Check open secrets dot org and actually take the time to compare the politicians. Unless your blinded by bigotry, you will see who the hypocrites are. Here's a hint, they are in majority right now! Which party has made more publicly racist statements in the past 50 years? Democrats.
Since nobody else is willing to use the words, I will.
Obamacare is coercion! Pure and simple. No ifs, ands or buts about it. If you look up the word coercion in the Oxford dictionary there is a 5000 page legal document that nobody read before voting on it, and 99.9% of the fools who still support it haven't read it either.
@Anonywriter Yes it is coercion just like mandated auto insurance, bet you don't know one single rich person that does not pay THAT, don't hear any complaints about it either from the rich LOL, because poor people that can not afford it have to pay it also or do without transport.
@barsense See, here's the thing though. I'm very libertarian. If you hit someone with an uninsured car you are not only hurting yourself physically and financially but you are hurting someone else, and that should be dealt with. If you don't have medical insurance, in theory, you are only hurting you and your own if you get sick and can't afford treatment. You also have the option to walk, bike, bus or a cab ride.
So, you see, there is no comparison between health and auto insurance in reality.
@Anonywriter Really auto is not a true comparison to healthcare, healthcare is much more important and necessary and the option is life or death of a human being, effects abitlity to take care of oneself or family etc. and is not just paying for someone else's damages to a material item. . .
Argh, repub politicians make me furious, they are so banking on people being stupid, my repub governor ad on TV bashing Obama saying stimilus did not work then bragging about jobs created in my state saying he was on the right trak Obama on wrong trak. LMAO every damn job created in my state was directly due to the 18 million bucks my Governor got from Obama stimilus to create the jobs. God I hope people will show these repub clowns in November that we a NOT as stupid as they think we are.
@barsense I don't know, barsense? In your last response to me you used the word "mandate". Now, I know this may sound "backwatered" to someone as brainwashed in European thinking as yourself, BUT...it's not nice to mandate that people buy a product if they don't want it OR CANNOT AFFORD IT!!!!
Jimmy gets 80% payout on his insurance? To quote Biden: "Big f***ing deal!" if he doesn't have a home after paying out for insurance that he probably doesn't even need!
From Harding In 1921 to Bush in 2003, Democrats held the White House for 40 years, and Republicans for 42.5 years. During this time Dem created 75,820,000 net new jobs and Repub 36,440,000.Per Year Average : Dem = 1,825,200 new jobs vs. Repub = 856,400 new jobs There was either a depression or recession during the administrations of 6 of the 9 Repub presidents The DOW grew by 52% more under Dems, and GDP grew by 26.4% more under Dems
@barsense, don't you think it is asinine that the poor, the very people who need health care protection, are exempt from the mandate? Doesn't that make you go 'hmmm, maybe this thing is crooked?', at all?
As far as I am concerned the right does NOT have a leg to stand on. We have needed healthcare reform for so many years and when they were in charge they did NOTHING. And then the alternative the republicans offered the CBO said would raise costs on the older and sicker and only lower costs for the young and heatlhy and in some states that support insurance monopolies would decrease quality because the states would be shopping for the cheapest policies.
I for one was exceptionally tired of paying insurance company CEO's 12 to 24 million a year just to find new ways to rip off consumers. I think it was way past time for gov. to do their job and protect the people from these abuses. I appreciate Obama and the dems finally getting it done. What I don't appreciate is the right trying to take these protections that were badly needed away now that we finally have them.
@Anonywriter Everyone is not mandated, lol, there are all kinds of exemptions unlike auto insurance. And the major part of the healthcare bill was to set basic standards that health insurance companies have to abide by in order to stop the abuses. lol so maybe you took the naproxin a bit too soon.
@barsense The "all kinds of exemptions" is a myth. The bill was not set up as some sort of patients Bill of Rights for the insurance companies. It was set up to take a tax directly out of our pockets and give it to the insurance CEOs whom you profess to resent and despise so much.
Let's be clear here, barsense. Any time you have to pay money out on a government mandate it is a tax. Any time you have to pay the government a tax it is bad. Any time you have to pay a corporation a tax it is EVIL!
I for one was exceptionally tired of paying insurance company CEO's 12 to 24 million a year just to find new ways to rip off consumers. I think it was way past time for gov. to do their job and protect the people from these abuses. I appreciate Obama and the dems finally getting it done.
@dancablam Sorry it took so long to respond, but you obviously missed the point of my comment. If you are uninsured your health care is not free! Someone has to pay for it! And mandating that people buy health insurance WILL NOT make it more affordable. That tactic only gives the insurance companies the green light to gouge prices. If liberals ever learn how to think logically they may actually be able to make the world better.
@Anonywriter Nothing is free, that's a given. So you think the health insurance providers will get the green light to gouge prices? Let me be the first to explain to you that price gouging has been health insurance companies' M.O. for decades - just get sick and you'll see what I mean.
I've been in the system and have been sick. And while there was some gouging people could always look towards other alternatives including CHOOSING not to be insured. Now that the scumbags have eliminated choice, every company can charge whatever the frick they want and we have no alternative but to pay the inflated bill or pay an inflated tax. Take a day after pill, America, cause you just got fucked.
@Anonywriter You are so wrong. Part of the healthcare bill requires that insurance companies spend 80% on the insured now of what they pay in, where as before many insurance companies were only spending a fraction of that or nothing if they cancelled on people, claimed pre-existing, or limited how much they would pay on life saving treatments. And there are so many exemptions and other options offered on the mandate part which was passed to keep prices down more people insured less money.
Shit I'm 24 years old... I haven't had heath insurance or been to a doctor since i was 12! I haven't had a job since i was 17! You can't get a job no more in this country let alone one with benefits. And i'm white! Imagine how hard it is for a black guy in the ghetto! This country is so fucked up... I give it another 10 years before its a 3rd world country.
@11aui Damn straight. The history of charity goes back to 1860s following the Civil War. In 1892 they established a test to separate the punks from the truly needy. They'd put you in front of a log and give your broke ass an axe. If you put two and two together and chopped that wood then you were in. If you stood around, then they booted you until you figured it out.
Once you were in, they taught you relevant skills and how to be a man. Being a man today is discouraged by the progressive elite.
This is bullshit and Obambi knows it, the current healthcare system is a sick corporatist system in which those with political connections can keep out competition to drive healthcare costs up. The FDA delays progress and efficiency and denies people life saving treatment in the name of 'safety', social security subsidies failure. There is an alternative, it's called the free market.
Ron Paul is one of the only remaining honest men in congress.
@DystopianUtopia The thing is, many insurance companies don't want to lose their local state monopolies. For instance, in Illinois, your health provider is the Blue Cross of Illinois. Period.
And? Who cares if they 'don't want to lose [them]'? If the American healthcare system really was a free market, and the current barriers to entry would not exist, and the insurance companies would have to drive costs down or lose business.
This is the problem with the stupid "Republican or Democrat" mentality of our politics; it's assumed you're one or the other. It's led people into thinking that our only choice is keep what we have now or convert to socialized medicine.
@DystopianUtopia CBO report on competition with basic regs and requirements on benefits offered. Prices would decrease for young and healthy, prices would INCREASE for older and sicker. states would be shopping for least expensive policies thus lower the quality of insurance much like competition has done for just about everything, all manufacturers always looking for cheaper ways to make, warranty, and service. Do you like getting a computer recording that outsources your call ?
@DystopianUtopia there is NO such thing as a free market, it is either a market totally controlled by mega corps and the moneyed elite or a market where the excesses and greed are partially constrained by government. The problem with a corporate controlled maket is these days our large corporations are more foreign owned than they are American owned. I prefer to have Americans control the market and do not want to turn it totally over to them with no protections for American consumers.
From Harding In 1921 to Bush in 2003, Democrats held the White House for 40 years, and Republicans for 42.5 years. During this time Dem created 75,820,000 net new jobs and Repub 36,440,000.Per Year Average : Dem = 1,825,200 new jobs vs. Repub = 856,400 new jobs There was either a depression or recession during the administrations of 6 of the 9 Repub presidents The DOW grew by 52% more under Dems, and GDP grew by 26.4% more under Dems
@matthias2986 The government will pay for it. Its just another thing to try and increase the deficit more. They are timing everything perfect so that the US dollar becomes worthless and goes through hyperinflation before his term is over. This way the next president they put in can play the hero. When the next president comes in they will need a new currency. So he will pass a bill for the Amero. A north american currency between canada, US, and mexico. Then the FED will control 3x the money
@ibilldavis If you did a little research and comparison you would find like I did that Obama has done an excellent job considering all that he has had to deal with. Much better than Reagan and the repubs did the last bad recession.
@ibilldavis I am white and in my 50' s , parents were middle class in the south. Extremely prejudiced as so many are in the south and I am ashamed to say for many years so was I. It took some setbacks and hardtimes not of my own making with the resulting struggle to get back on solid ground financially that got me looking around and opened my eyes and heart. Why do you ask ?
From Harding In 1921 to Bush in 2003, Democrats held the White House for 40 years, and Republicans for 42.5 years. During this time1. Democrats created 75,820,000 net new jobs and Republicans 36,440,000.2. Per Year Average : Democrats = 1,825,200 new jobs vs. Republicans = 856,400 new jobs.3. There was either a depression or a recession during the administrations of 6 of the 9 Republican presidents.4. The DOW grew by 52% more under Democrats and The GDP grew by 26.4% more under Democrats
@ibilldavis Bull, guilt had nothing to do with it, democrats are just better for this country and we like Obama's agenda, intelligence, strength, and courage.
@ibilldavis LOL, you should do some research on that like I did , for most of those 20 years the congregation was a very mixed congregation and pastor Wright was not fanatic at all, somewhere along the way he had a brain freeze and changed his whole method of preaching and became quite radical but that was after Obama had already started campaigning and his attendence was quite spotty, had a similiar experience myself with my long time white pastor who recently went KKK tune , it happens..
From what I suspect is that the old rule that says "Even if a citizen does not have health insurance a hospital still must treat them" that rule has been abolished right under our noses in favor of so -called high prices passed to corporate and the consumer.
Now what will be passed is death
Anytime money is the justification of death its just evil to me. It may be a legitamate reason for some but personally I think its better to murder those who would ordain money of life than the contrary
Most people don't know whats in the Healthcare Bill because they have been "GIVEN" the facts by the media and never once had to use their own analytical skills to evaluate it first hand. So basically its an abstract and ppl are believing in what they can't see based on how much trust they have in the messenger. And the messenger is the media and politicians?
yeah it wont send people to jail nor will it fine them, it was just blank paper, we can burn it to ashes and make recycled green cards and money out of it so that you and americaten can buy signs and fall in line with massa
@duionmytrycycle Remember the truth, without Immigrants you would not have the buildings you have now, Republicans needed Immigrants more than the immigrants needed Republicans, you would not have the money to succeed or even build an industry, and that the Immigrants and Latinos who have immigrants have 55 percent of the vote. So if i am you, i would watch what i say, because if you keep criticising Immigrants as a republican, then you can bet that Latinos will vote them out easily.
Just like Jesus who used death Satans ultimate tactic and divided satans own house against himself . So is it today in the world where god is using dark hearts to create light. Those who possess such a hard heart will commit to being disagreeable and through that will come the core of god's logic and wrath.
@Amerikaten So yore saying saying white people are the devil if they disagree with barrack obama.. right ... once again this kind of dumbassery is intolerable
@duionmytrycycle lol no but you are associated with KKK and the Tea Party if you are opposed to Obama. I mean let's face facts man, you can say it's not true and Republicans are no way racists, but it seems that way on Capital Hill, and the Republican leaders are just supporting the Tea party to get into office for another term. It's a sad fact, but Republicans have been on the WRONG side of history.
@Crazyfrankie666 your calling me KKK because i dont want a bill, signed by the people that it will send to jail?<?< you guys are fucking idiots!!! and when you, who supported this bill, get the fees to pay for it, (FREE HEALTH CARE) <haha
let me know how well it works,, also stop praising yourself for witty little comments, i really dont give a shit, but know that those who sold it to you, lied to you! you think nancy pelosi cares about your grandmother? yea just as much as G B cares about mine.
@duionmytrycycle lol of course, because look how you type and how cocky you are, it will not send people to jail at all, but you know why the fees are there? because simply put you(The republican party) refused control from Government run healthcare, or even anything reforming healthcare for that matter.Health care would have been free in all essence like it is in England or Canada, if we signed UNIVERSAL Healthcare, but guess what, we are going to pay more taxes, thanks to your ignorence.
@duionmytrycycle And besides if you do not care man why even comment me, and why can you not respond to the other things, i just told you? because it's common sense and it's the truth you choose not to believe. To be honest it will work in the end, because what works for the U.K and Canada works for the U.S to, and who is to say that we can not modify the taxes in coming years anyways. It may not be TRUE reform but it's reform in the right direction.
@duionmytrycycle Opposing Health Care Reform, Social Security, Unemployment Benefits. Besides those who disagree with Barack Obama have no real reason to hate him except that hes black/democrat that is the only reason. But for George W Bush, he was just a fucking idiot who did not know how to run a country, failed on killing Osama, and found no weapons in Iraq essentially just a failure cashing in on the peoples misfortunes.
@duionmytrycycle That's how Capitalism will always be until Capitalism stops working for Wall Street and starts working for the people like anyone before Ronald Raegon. So there you go i just foiled your "Dumbassery:" with a reality check.
@duionmytrycycle P.S if you want to involve religion into the discussion, i will say that if Jesus was alive today, he would not approve of Capitalism nor Republican idealogy. Because in the bible it is written "Woe is the rich and wealthy are the poor" that is from St Lukes Gospel. Besides if you truly believed in Religion or the Constitution even you would know it is Democratic. All republican idealogy is, is based on the American Dream, and Republicans have cashed in on it.
@duionmytrycycle No, people who are fucking idiots, such as yourself believe in the illusion or negativity of the fact that "Health Care reform is such a bad thing, it's just higher taxes" so much that you do not see life through an open lense(Helping people who NEED IT rather than those who do not), but you see it in terms of "Black and White" instead of color.
@Crazyfrankie666 I believe it was Winston Churchill that said "If your not a liberal at 20 you don't have a heart, and if your not conservative by 30 you don't have a brain." Grow up. I hope you get a good job and make big bucks. We who have worked all our lives to watch this jackass Obama suck our hard earned bucks away will see how you feel about paying for those "not so fortunate".
@ammagic11 lol well times have changed my friend, you have to understand that your mind can not comprehend nor understand that only 10percent truly pass college because of the high expenses of college, and how can you pay for college when you have to worry about healthcare? you simply can not. We are not talking about the NOT so fortunate, because the not so fortunate use to be the ones who came from middle class homes,
@ammagic11 and now they are out on the streets, you are just as fucking idiotic as Bill O Reilly when he says "there are not World War Vets out on the streets" thats just what i like to call using fiction over fact, when fact triumphs fiction. Besides nobody really earns big bucks anymore ever since Government became corperate thanks to Ronald Raegon.
@ammagic11 Who i believe one of his top advisors is from... YOU GUESS IT GOLDMAN SACHS who made sure that Banks/Corperations owned companies, has frozen pay for maximum productivity, and to this day it happens, so your not any richer no matter how high of a rank you are at in an occupation.
@ammagic11 So in essence were just barrowing money when we are getting payed, we are not really getting paid anything. In the Bush era a dollar pays for a nickels worth and in Obamas era we are getting out of the recession, and auctully holding wall street accountable. Besides when did Bush or Raegon or any of these "Great" presidents did that? fucking never, so shut fuck up with your ego
@ammagic11 stop acting like your a corperation, and realize the truth that Capitalism is not what it use to be, and it has FAILED, and now Democracy is now learning from the mistakes of Republic and auctully making America better. Besides Obama has not made any mistakes really, and if you think Bush is better than name me 5 things he said he would do and did, and you will find he did absolutely nothing but
@Siagos Man shut the fuck up, if you do not like Barack Obama then why did you come here to stir up controversey? because you have nothing to do with your pathetic existence.
@Crazyfrankie666 I'm sorry. I didn't realize that I was not allowed onto this page of YouTube. Before I go to another page on the internet, will you please tell me where I AM allowed to go? I thought this forum was for people to discuss things, not just say, "I agree with those people here. We think alike. We have the exact same opinion. I'm glad I think for myself." Obviously, if you don't love Obama and everything he says and does, you are banned from talking to those who do.
@HnFLabs lol well with all due respect, this is not a FORUM site, it is a social networking site, it is similiar in some aspects, but if you do not like what the PRO Obama people tell you then you should go. Well the reason for that is because we like Obama, we subscribe to his page, and then we get the nasty pro republican comments that swing from the far right. Instead of the moderate comments from the right. It is shameful to be honest.
@Siagos I'm sorry to inform you that this comment page is only supposed to be for those who love Obama, not for anyone who might disagree with him. Also, I've been informed that if you disagree with "The One," you hate black people, love greed, hate God, and are just all around unworthy to breath the same air as real people (defined here as those who believe "The One" with unswerving loyalty). We should just shut up and die for not thinking what we're told to think.
@HnFLabs I...I...I can't believe it, but its all so clear now. My eyes are opened.
Thank you good sir. Thank thee for opening mine eyes to the truth. I doth seen the folly of mine ways.
For so long, how could this fool blasphemer been so blind to the truth of The One? In my awakening, I am now burdened with the guilt of sacrilege. I can only make humble penance for my apostasy. Please excuse me.
~TheHolyDarkness Out on a Journey of Redeeming Purification~
@ammagic11 put America on life support and did not acknowledge the problems we were facing at the pump, grocery store until a year later, so you can say and rationalize what you want to believe, but facts are facts, and you have no facts but opinion, so just get out of here, and take your beating like a man.
calling obama god is not only creepy but it goes against that book you keep abusing to call people evil who disagree with killing babies in the womb -ie- abortion if you support abortion rights you in turn support killing children in the womb, -ie- murder = sin = evil so therefore abortion = killing = murder = sin = evil. thus the false god has been exposed. thank you for playing, but next time you call someone a liar at least provide facts, and stop with the whole ObamaGod concept its lame.
@duionmytrycycle You are a liar You say I called Obama god in order to find a safe spot for debate but you lied your way over there by saying I called Obama God.
Once again you being a child of satan and a inherent instinctive liar like your father I can expect that from you.
But let me remind you of your future haha who eventually wins?
@Amerikaten said= By way of the God Head you have to hate him because you are opposite of God. not to mention other creepy stuff about this Obamagod. keep calling me a liar man they can check the post if they really want to read your crazy bullshit dumbassery,, nuff said.
@duionmytrycycle Yeah god created the light and the darkness the up and the down , So in that course every time you see something good of god you automatically position your self on the opposite side Satan is the opposite. But its not your fault you were chosen to be a child of Satan. Just like Pharaoh was raised just to be knocked off by Moses. Pharaoh swore there was no God and just couldn't see. So it is with all the Obama haters. They know not what they do however its all in Gods plan
America has been a corrupt country since its inception. Slavery and murder were legal for many years not to mention the many other evils. The whole HealthCare system cursed this country into believing a dollar has precedence over a life. To a point where you devils will back paying high prices over healing ppl
Healing is of God. Putting a valuless dollar over life is just evil especially when the dollar can't breath or have blood. Not only that it is valued on zero no oil no gold.
@EnigmaHood so you never listened to your parents or did what they asked you or believed anything they said? I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful I'm just asking. On the contrary, I have the greatest respect for any fellow American.
Thank you President Obama for such a brilliant plan, I, as an American citizen approve of this 100%. You are a brilliant leader and I am proud to have you in charge of my country, once again, thank you very much President Obama.
Thank you President Obama for such a brilliant plan, I, as an American citizen approve of this 100%. You are a brilliant leader and I am proud to have you in charge of my country, once again, thank you very much President Obama.
Thank you President Obama for such a brilliant plan, I, as an American citizen approve of this 100%. You are a brilliant leader and I am proud to have you in charge of my country, once again, thank you very much President Obama.
Wow. Again, I am not advocating violence. FYI, name-calling is often considered a form of violence nowadays. Just in case you're not up-to-date.
And no argument? From where does the conflict arise and the conversation continue? Are we in agreement? No. You seem to have found some kind of argument in all of this, even if it may not be what you want to argue about. Apparently, we care about different parts of the issue.
Others may respect your opinion more if you know when it's exhausted.
@Amerikaten said--Of course you dont know any god -sent soldier
Hell you dont know god..?!?!?
You fucking support abortion (killing babies) and your gonna tell me about god?!?! dude shut the fuck up and stop embarrassing yourself, and when you say help us, do you mean pre-screen us with cancer swabs so they can turn us away later?!? yeah nice,, Amerikaten=I love my obama care massa says its good for me.
@duionmytrycycle Your hatred has blinded you from the wisdom of God which is wiser than man. So when you look you will not see and when you listen you will not hear. Your destiny is to fall sick with hate for you create lies to justify your hate like "killing babies or Obama is giving us cancer" LoL you are a liar. You tell lies in the face of truth which proves you are indeed a child of Satan
Satan always presents himself opposite of god when God laughs Satan cries.
nixon didn't do crap for reform, but I agree with the rest. Check out SICKO from Michael Moore to hear Nixon side with and actually help create, evil health care legislation. I love you Obama, but check your facts to keep this thing alive, our credibility on this. Long live reform!!
Obama is still a soldier of the MOST HIGH GOD his gold is your feces and your feces is his gold.
By way of the God Head you have to hate him because you are opposite of God. How can Satan love the works of the Lord? How can God have compassion on Satan?
We are at a point in time where centuries of satan induced backward thinking is being rebuked.
" Let this stone fall on you and crush you and ye be broken"
racist - a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others-also racism-1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
see also, people who disagree with Barrak Obama.<------wait what? when the hell did that happen?????????
@duionmytrycycle I can't either - I have a job and have been without it for 8 years. If you honestly don't make enough money, this isn't going to affect the money you bring in. It's going to raise taxes on people who can actually AFFORD it, and simply take away from some of those luxuries they fight so hard to protect. By the sound of your posts, you can afford to lose something... starting with your arrogance.
@omgoneleven It's going to raise taxes on people who can actually AFFORD it, this isn't going to affect the money you bring in
if you really believe that that's gonna be the case then i have nothing else to say. but what i would like to know is how you plan to pay for all this if you only take from people making 250k or more a year, you do realize the math doesn't add up right? so who do we raise taxes on after that?? and better yet, what should we tax those evil people who worked so hard?
@duionmytrycycle "Evil?" I don't believe in that. There are people who make less and work JUST as hard, sometimes harder, and may simply not be as lucky.
Also, I'm not saying people who can afford it have an annual income of 250k or more. Some people in my own family make more than 60k. That is MUCH more than I've ever made, and I live in an area with MUCH higher living expenses. They also have health care and many luxuries I do not. You think I think their income help me to SURVIVE? Hell yes.
@Jcolinsol I'm a little confused by this comment. Do you mean "state" as in "the state of things," or "state" as in Texas, California, Maryland...?
Besides that, I just can't fathom how people still think that this is going to take money away from the "middle class" and give it to the "super rich." Leaving things the way they are will only cause the gap between people separated by income levels to widen even more.
I mean the group of people belonging to the compulsory monopoly on the initiation of force within the geographic region commonly referred to as "The United States". In common, and inaccurate, parlance the U.S. government.
It's because they are forcing everyone to buy insurance, obviously this is a boon for the insurance corporations. People who work for big corporations tend to benefit from the advantages that the state gives them, and they become super-rich. This is an example.
@Jcolinsol If this goes through, it will not be forcing everyone to buy insurance from those insurance corporations. Instead of our health insurance being bought from private corporations, it would be separate, like a federal "company," so-to-speak. Two working examples of this now are the motor vehicle commission and post office, which are currently government-run. The government is for the benefit of it's people... private corporations are for personal profit and gain.
It will be forcing people to buy insurance. Forced, enforced, with fines, prison, and ultimately violence. This is not civilized.
Second, the public option, the government option is not a solution. The state is no better than a private business. In most cases it is worse because it is a monopoly on the provision of the service, and usually paid for with extorted tax money. Just because we think that state should be for the benefit of the people, doesn't mean it is.
Also, a "corporation" is just a state sponsored business. They get regulations, tax breaks, and lobby perks, i.e. state sponsored benefits that allow them to become larger than they should be. They also have no owner, so a corporation is not accountable for its actions. Private business is not the same as corporate business.
Also, the post office and the dmv, are examples of how inefficient, expensive, and poor quality goods and services are when provided by a single monopoly.
@Jcolinsol I used, "like a federal 'company,' so-to-speak," as I am trying to get an idea through to you. I used "corporation," for the lack of a better term at the time to simply communicate the fact that it will be basically the same "thing." E.g. Starbucks corporation = business, company, etc. Starbucks is, of course, not exactly the same as a "mom and pop" coffee shop... nevertheless, they are both coffee shops.
@Jcolinsol Well, I wasn't finished with my reply at that time - I had to split it due to the character limit.
Anyway, I am done for now. If you still don't understand where I'm coming from, try my latest video. I originally included the link, but it didn't work.
If that doesn't clear things up, then oh well...perhaps we must simply agree to disagree and part our merry ways. It does not feel worth all of this time to argue with one stubborn person in these character-limited comment boxes.
@Jcolinsol I've never had one problem with the post office or the dmv.
Also, about forcing people to buy insurance... ultimately, violence? Fearing the unknown is natural... but that's a pretty paranoid statement.
You say it's not a solution? Neither you, nor I, know that...but what I and many others DO know is what we have now does not work. If you think it does, then you are very unaware outside of yourself.
There's no way to know if we don't try, and if we don't try, nothing can improve.
It;s not paranoid at all, This is fundamental nature of the state. A monopoly on the initiation of force. If you are so completely oblivious as to not observe this fact, you really shouldn't be making prescriptive statements.
And I am well aware that the system as it currently exists does not work, and I am against it. I also recognize that it is the heavy intervention into the health-care industry by the state that has created the current circumstance.
The last 3 times I went to the post office or DMV, I had to wait in line 20-30 minutes just to get to the window. This is a representation of the result of a state monopoly: inefficiency.
If we were talking about a single payer system, it would be sick people, waiting in line, or being refused service (happens in the Canadian system).
Any solution is going to rely on integration with a functional economy, the state is inherently removed from the equilibrium of the economy.
@Jcolinsol Wow... a whole 30 minutes? How inefficient. My commute to work is longer.
Um, sick people wait in line and are refused service now. It's called, "having a terminal illness and not having health care."
You know how to solve this? Run for president, win the election, and prove it. Then maybe you can give it a shot and see if it works out. Can't do that? Well, the previous administration had it's chances. Let this one give it a shot.
You failed to refute any of my points. You merely attempted to ridicule them. Intellectually dishonest
Running for President solves nothing. You cannot solve social conflicts with violence, you maroon
It's definitely getting its shot, alright. You simply have faith that it will work, whereas I can observe the ways in which it won't be working. Just wait till the republicans get in office again, then you'll see how institutions protect the interests of the public
@Jcolinsol There's no point in trying to refute a point that can't be made - nothing has happened yet. You say I'm intellectually dishonest, yet act like as though there's some kind of truth in what you're saying although it cannot be proven. You have no evidence to support the self-declared truths in your argument.
Unlike you, I don't wait for things "not to work." I simply observe, and make my conclusions based on those observations.
Fyi, "maroon" is a color. I think you meant "moron."
I called you intellectually dishonest, because you did not refute my arguments, you merely ridiculed them. This is basic stuff.
I am not waiting for it "not to work", I am projecting that likely it will not work, based on the sum total of observations to date. It's like saying, "Well, you can't say that people WON'T evolve wings, just wait and see" while I reply, "Everything that we know about evolution demonstrates that it is highly unlikely that people will evolve wings"
I would totally be facepalming if I were in to that sort of thing
Needless to say, this behavior on your part, is clearly intellectual dishonest. You are, as you have through this whole, well I hesitate to call it a debate, posited little, and refuted nothing
You are simply finding ways to avoid legitimate discussion of the matter because, I think, you are out of your depth
@Jcolinsol I disagree. I find your paranoid beliefs about the government, which you seem to talk of as truths... to put it simply, schizophrenic. I refrained from saying that in my previous post and cut it short, however, as I did not want you to think I was saying that just to insult you. However, I suppose that you probably think that now, anyway.
Anyway, since I think we have different perceptions of reality and/or the world around us, I see no way to move forward in this conversation.
It's not paranoid to point out that the state is a monopoly on the initiation of force. It's baldly observable.
If you refuse to obey "the law" you will be fined, or imprisoned, and if you refuse, "the police" will either drag you to jail, or execute you while "resisting arrest".
In this case "the law" is being forced to buy insurance. Nothing paranoid about this, you just seem to be ignorant of how the state actually works.
@Jcolinsol Well, in your past comments, I think that you got a little too carried away and exaggerated those observations. It's a shame if you or someone you know has had some really bad experiences with law enforcement, but I think it's common sense that resisting arrest is typically not the best idea. Also, the way laws are enforced will vary drastically depending upon where you are and who the officer may be... but this has been exhausted, and that's really all for another argument, anyway.
Not really. See, it's not "paranoia" at all, I don't fear the state. As a law abiding, mutually respectful Anarchist, I don't encounter the police very often.
You are presupposing that police violence is justified,
Offer an argument. Why are you for the use of force? Why are your offering justifications for the police?
Do you think it is right for police to threaten people, if they do something so harmless and innocuous as to choose not to purchase health-insurance?
@Jcolinsol Of course you are. It was obvious by your arguments. But frankly, I believe people need other people to moderate their behavior, and those people need people to moderate them, and so on. I consider it part of our job as citizens to influence and elect those we see fit for positions of power.
Anyway, I'm not offering an argument, because I think you should take it up with someone else who cares to argue on the topic to law enforcement. That seems to be your real concern.
Yeah, well, you haven't offered an argument in this debate to date. You've simply evaded any kind of real discourse. As far as I can tell, your political philosophy is without any kind of coherent structure. If I'm wrong in interpreting it that way, feel free to elaborate on your political philosophy over private message.
Regardless though, You are still the one advocating the use of violence, and the existence of a monopoly on the initiation of violence. Consider that.
Point is i dont care if you're purple, get off you're ass and get a job. if you cant afford something, you fucked up. its pathetic and unfair period. you think its a race thing? bullshit, Obama won by a landslide when he was elected! And if anyone needs a recount im sure i can find the page.
by the way ima RayCyst just in case Jcolinsol or somebody else forgets to put that in there somewhere on there comments again, wouldn't wanna forget that shit, somebody might think we forgot. AHYUK
It's not that people need to get jobs to get health-insurance. In fact, that is precisely the problem. Insurance never should have been made mandatory by the state. And businesses only started giving insurance as a benefit because the state enforced wage caps. The whole problem with the health-care industry is that the state has intervened.
In truth we WANT an appropriate modicum of welfare, we are just stupid to expect the state to provide it.
The Republicans are just crybabies. They are the part of fear, the Democrats are the part of hate. Luckily, we aren't dependent on these emotionally insecure basket cases, we rely on only one thing: the principle of emergence.
Don't look to the state to provide solutions, order is polycentric, it is literally your actions that create the order.
@Amerikaten you said__ republicans want ppl to die so its just essentially good vs evil I really believe Obama has been sent as a soldier of God----
WT? He supports abortion and is friends with a domestic terrorist WILLIAM AYERS anyone?!?! Maybe you meant soldier of jihad, Becouse i dont know any god-sent soldier who would condone killing babies in the womb!!!
Of course its our actions that maintain order. Any of the millions of Americans can act a dam ass at any time. If one group choose to rebel against the country that doesn't mean that everyone else will sit idle while they act up. I think those who are clinging to their guns and their devil worshipping is in for a big surprise because the battle will render those guns useless due new technologies that isn't even taught or told in school that will be used on them.
@EnigmaHood What all you liberals are scared to say is, that the white man is gonna foot the bill again, some blacks some Hispanics... but the majority of the money will come from us middle class hard working white people. then i have to turn around and listen to people say im racist on cnn becouse i dont support a health care for crackheads bill!! get a job, or go to school i dont care wich but take youre BS bill and this bulls#it obama bill to kenya.
@duionmytrycycle Racism never entered the picture until you brought it in. Clearly your opinions are motivated by racism, and that's why you are a racist. Thank you for revealing that on your own. Dumb people tend to completely destroy any valid argument they may have had.
@EnigmaHood Cool. But if you dont want to hear the truth from the other side of the isle why bother writing me, all i said was the truth, its another bill that dumps billions in taxpayer dollars that I pay into communities that pay close to/or none meaning my taxes go up so that people who receive them get benefits?!? yeah I must be and idiot to disagree with that huh?
@duionmytrycycle No, you aren't telling the truth, you are ranting about your racist tendencies, and I replied to you because you replied to my post. I could ask you the same thing, why are you replying to my comments? You're an idiot to be a racist, and try to rationalize it through your bullshit excuses.
@barsense It isn't the right wing that is redefining words and using euphemisms like progress when they mean oppress.
Anonywriter 1 year ago
I just can not afford to pay to borrow 700B to keep tax cuts for billionaires. I am trying to expand my business and hire more workers and since I don't yet fall in top income I can't afford to pay to keep tax cuts for INDIVIDUALS that do. Top income corporate tax rate is already set at 35 % while next lower bracket is set at 38% after tax credits neither pays anywhere near that but top income is eligible for most. We need to keep tax cuts for middle business and individual. Vote dems.
barsense 1 year ago
@barsense Oh, and just to be fair, I know that the Republicans are not angels either and the Bush administration has a lot of evil to answer for that they won't even get questioned about until we can get a party in power that actually believes in the sanctity of the Constitution and personal liberty. And that is what this debate is really all about, personal liberty.
Anonywriter 1 year ago
@barsense And how much does that upper tier pay out in benefits and payroll each week?
Anonywriter 1 year ago
I had back surgery last summer and they put an implant in me that consisted of two small plastic discs, two rods, four screws, two wires and a lithium battery. It cost $65,000. $10,000 more than what my house is now worth thanks to subsidized, mandated housing loans that the Demonrats wanted. Anyway, I came home and built a duplicate of the device for under $2 out of spare parts in my computer lab. Instead of fixing the inflated prices of medicine they chose to force us to feed the beast.
Anonywriter 1 year ago
@Anonywriter 80 % of all foreclosures were made by lending instutituion THAT ARE NOT SUBJECT to CRA.. plus largest percentage of foreclosures was higher income higher prices homes. 80 % that is by far the largest number Had nothing to do with subsidized mandated housing. depository lending institution ARE NOT SUBJECT TO CRA.
barsense 1 year ago
@barsense I think you need to recheck things. The dems pushed for subsidized housing loans. When Fannie and Freddie failed is what burst the housing bubble and the economic downturn.
Anonywriter 1 year ago
@Anonywriter 80% of all foreclosure were from lending institutions that were and are not subject to CRA. higher income more expensive homes were also a larger percentage of the foreclosure problem. the problem was not Fannie and Freddie lending to low incomes the problem was GREED in Wallstreet and ratings companies bundling high risk with low risk.
barsense 1 year ago
@Anonywriter 80% of all foreclosure were from lending institutions that were and are not subject to CRA. higher income more expensive homes were also a larger percentage of the foreclosure problem. the problem was not Fannie and Freddie lending to low incomes the problem was GREED in Wallstreet and ratings companies bundling high risk with low risk and the high risk were more upper income than they were lower income.
barsense 1 year ago
@Anonywriter Good for you if you built the device, has it been put in your back to see if it would work ?? I am sure you did not do THAT yourself. And no it is not ridiculous that people that can not afford it or not mandated it only makes sense. Can't take blood from a turnip cause it does not have any. LOL
barsense 1 year ago
@barsense It works.
The implant itself cost that much. The surgery and hospital stay were extra ;) If you spent half as much time looking for viable alternative solutions to problems as you do defending weasels you could make a difference.
Anonywriter 1 year ago
@Anonywriter If you spent half as much time looking for true facts instead of just falling for fake rhetoric of the hyocrites leading the right you could make a difference.
barsense 1 year ago
@barsense, kettle...pot...rubber...glue, yawn. WTF are you? Twelve?
Except for the "barsense is somewhat intelligent and not a brain-dead socialist drone" post, what exactly have I posted that is not a true fact?
Anonywriter 1 year ago
@Anonywriter maybe you should leave all of the above alone and get some sleep or something. The better question is what have you posted that is true, NOTHING that I have seen to date. The key manipulation right wing BS words don't work for me and never will . I am in my 50's and I left that road a looooong time ago. Now I think for myself. and check facts on site that don't take sides and rarely watch media, certainly not the fake commentators on the Saudi channel favorite of the right.
barsense 1 year ago
@barsense, everything I've posted has not only been true but unbiased fact. Whereas, the few times you've posted an actual fact, you've put the socialist party line spin on it. Just like your previous post -- "key manipulation right wing BS words don't work for me and never will". What key manipulation right-wing BS words? Socialist? Newflash, barsense, if you believe in taking rightfully earned property from someone and giving it to someone else for doing NOTHING then you are a socialist.
Anonywriter 1 year ago
@barsense, if you actually do think for yourself then how come all of your responses, that actually pertain to the debate, have mimicked the party line, sometimes word for word? See, I DO check facts, that is sort of my job and purpose in life. And please clarify what Saudi channel is favored by the right? Do they have BBC or SyFy in Saudi?
Anonywriter 1 year ago
@barsense Check open secrets dot org and actually take the time to compare the politicians. Unless your blinded by bigotry, you will see who the hypocrites are. Here's a hint, they are in majority right now! Which party has made more publicly racist statements in the past 50 years? Democrats.
Anonywriter 1 year ago
Since nobody else is willing to use the words, I will.
Obamacare is coercion! Pure and simple. No ifs, ands or buts about it. If you look up the word coercion in the Oxford dictionary there is a 5000 page legal document that nobody read before voting on it, and 99.9% of the fools who still support it haven't read it either.
Anonywriter 1 year ago
@Anonywriter Yes it is coercion just like mandated auto insurance, bet you don't know one single rich person that does not pay THAT, don't hear any complaints about it either from the rich LOL, because poor people that can not afford it have to pay it also or do without transport.
barsense 1 year ago
@barsense See, here's the thing though. I'm very libertarian. If you hit someone with an uninsured car you are not only hurting yourself physically and financially but you are hurting someone else, and that should be dealt with. If you don't have medical insurance, in theory, you are only hurting you and your own if you get sick and can't afford treatment. You also have the option to walk, bike, bus or a cab ride.
So, you see, there is no comparison between health and auto insurance in reality.
Anonywriter 1 year ago
@Anonywriter Really auto is not a true comparison to healthcare, healthcare is much more important and necessary and the option is life or death of a human being, effects abitlity to take care of oneself or family etc. and is not just paying for someone else's damages to a material item. . .
barsense 1 year ago
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Argh, repub politicians make me furious, they are so banking on people being stupid, my repub governor ad on TV bashing Obama saying stimilus did not work then bragging about jobs created in my state saying he was on the right trak Obama on wrong trak. LMAO every damn job created in my state was directly due to the 18 million bucks my Governor got from Obama stimilus to create the jobs. God I hope people will show these repub clowns in November that we a NOT as stupid as they think we are.
barsense 1 year ago 2
@barsense I don't know, barsense? In your last response to me you used the word "mandate". Now, I know this may sound "backwatered" to someone as brainwashed in European thinking as yourself, BUT...it's not nice to mandate that people buy a product if they don't want it OR CANNOT AFFORD IT!!!!
Jimmy gets 80% payout on his insurance? To quote Biden: "Big f***ing deal!" if he doesn't have a home after paying out for insurance that he probably doesn't even need!
Anonywriter 1 year ago
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From Harding In 1921 to Bush in 2003, Democrats held the White House for 40 years, and Republicans for 42.5 years. During this time Dem created 75,820,000 net new jobs and Repub 36,440,000.Per Year Average : Dem = 1,825,200 new jobs vs. Repub = 856,400 new jobs There was either a depression or recession during the administrations of 6 of the 9 Repub presidents The DOW grew by 52% more under Dems, and GDP grew by 26.4% more under Dems
barsense 1 year ago 4
@barsense, don't you think it is asinine that the poor, the very people who need health care protection, are exempt from the mandate? Doesn't that make you go 'hmmm, maybe this thing is crooked?', at all?
Anonywriter 1 year ago
As far as I am concerned the right does NOT have a leg to stand on. We have needed healthcare reform for so many years and when they were in charge they did NOTHING. And then the alternative the republicans offered the CBO said would raise costs on the older and sicker and only lower costs for the young and heatlhy and in some states that support insurance monopolies would decrease quality because the states would be shopping for the cheapest policies.
barsense 1 year ago 9
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barsense 1 year ago
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I for one was exceptionally tired of paying insurance company CEO's 12 to 24 million a year just to find new ways to rip off consumers. I think it was way past time for gov. to do their job and protect the people from these abuses. I appreciate Obama and the dems finally getting it done. What I don't appreciate is the right trying to take these protections that were badly needed away now that we finally have them.
barsense 1 year ago 5
@barsense So mandating that every one has to enroll in an abusive system is protecting them from abuse? Damn, I need a naproxin.
Anonywriter 1 year ago
@Anonywriter Everyone is not mandated, lol, there are all kinds of exemptions unlike auto insurance. And the major part of the healthcare bill was to set basic standards that health insurance companies have to abide by in order to stop the abuses. lol so maybe you took the naproxin a bit too soon.
barsense 1 year ago
@barsense The "all kinds of exemptions" is a myth. The bill was not set up as some sort of patients Bill of Rights for the insurance companies. It was set up to take a tax directly out of our pockets and give it to the insurance CEOs whom you profess to resent and despise so much.
Let's be clear here, barsense. Any time you have to pay money out on a government mandate it is a tax. Any time you have to pay the government a tax it is bad. Any time you have to pay a corporation a tax it is EVIL!
Anonywriter 1 year ago
I for one was exceptionally tired of paying insurance company CEO's 12 to 24 million a year just to find new ways to rip off consumers. I think it was way past time for gov. to do their job and protect the people from these abuses. I appreciate Obama and the dems finally getting it done.
barsense 1 year ago 10
@dancablam Sorry it took so long to respond, but you obviously missed the point of my comment. If you are uninsured your health care is not free! Someone has to pay for it! And mandating that people buy health insurance WILL NOT make it more affordable. That tactic only gives the insurance companies the green light to gouge prices. If liberals ever learn how to think logically they may actually be able to make the world better.
Anonywriter 1 year ago
@Anonywriter Nothing is free, that's a given. So you think the health insurance providers will get the green light to gouge prices? Let me be the first to explain to you that price gouging has been health insurance companies' M.O. for decades - just get sick and you'll see what I mean.
dancablam 1 year ago 4
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Anonywriter 1 year ago
I've been in the system and have been sick. And while there was some gouging people could always look towards other alternatives including CHOOSING not to be insured. Now that the scumbags have eliminated choice, every company can charge whatever the frick they want and we have no alternative but to pay the inflated bill or pay an inflated tax. Take a day after pill, America, cause you just got fucked.
Anonywriter 1 year ago
@Anonywriter You are so wrong. Part of the healthcare bill requires that insurance companies spend 80% on the insured now of what they pay in, where as before many insurance companies were only spending a fraction of that or nothing if they cancelled on people, claimed pre-existing, or limited how much they would pay on life saving treatments. And there are so many exemptions and other options offered on the mandate part which was passed to keep prices down more people insured less money.
barsense 1 year ago
Shit I'm 24 years old... I haven't had heath insurance or been to a doctor since i was 12! I haven't had a job since i was 17! You can't get a job no more in this country let alone one with benefits. And i'm white! Imagine how hard it is for a black guy in the ghetto! This country is so fucked up... I give it another 10 years before its a 3rd world country.
buckinfitches 1 year ago
@11aui Damn straight. The history of charity goes back to 1860s following the Civil War. In 1892 they established a test to separate the punks from the truly needy. They'd put you in front of a log and give your broke ass an axe. If you put two and two together and chopped that wood then you were in. If you stood around, then they booted you until you figured it out.
Once you were in, they taught you relevant skills and how to be a man. Being a man today is discouraged by the progressive elite.
TheTrueHolyDarkness 1 year ago
hahaha what a lame propaganda movie only made to scare people....sorry Mr. president but you sir are a dummbass
MD40LD50 1 year ago
This is bullshit and Obambi knows it, the current healthcare system is a sick corporatist system in which those with political connections can keep out competition to drive healthcare costs up. The FDA delays progress and efficiency and denies people life saving treatment in the name of 'safety', social security subsidies failure. There is an alternative, it's called the free market.
Ron Paul is one of the only remaining honest men in congress.
DystopianUtopia 1 year ago
@DystopianUtopia The thing is, many insurance companies don't want to lose their local state monopolies. For instance, in Illinois, your health provider is the Blue Cross of Illinois. Period.
No exceptions.
~TheHolyDarkness Out~
TheTrueHolyDarkness 1 year ago
@TheTrueHolyDarkness
And? Who cares if they 'don't want to lose [them]'? If the American healthcare system really was a free market, and the current barriers to entry would not exist, and the insurance companies would have to drive costs down or lose business.
This is the problem with the stupid "Republican or Democrat" mentality of our politics; it's assumed you're one or the other. It's led people into thinking that our only choice is keep what we have now or convert to socialized medicine.
DystopianUtopia 1 year ago
@DystopianUtopia CBO report on competition with basic regs and requirements on benefits offered. Prices would decrease for young and healthy, prices would INCREASE for older and sicker. states would be shopping for least expensive policies thus lower the quality of insurance much like competition has done for just about everything, all manufacturers always looking for cheaper ways to make, warranty, and service. Do you like getting a computer recording that outsources your call ?
barsense 1 year ago 2
@DystopianUtopia there is NO such thing as a free market, it is either a market totally controlled by mega corps and the moneyed elite or a market where the excesses and greed are partially constrained by government. The problem with a corporate controlled maket is these days our large corporations are more foreign owned than they are American owned. I prefer to have Americans control the market and do not want to turn it totally over to them with no protections for American consumers.
barsense 1 year ago 6
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From Harding In 1921 to Bush in 2003, Democrats held the White House for 40 years, and Republicans for 42.5 years. During this time Dem created 75,820,000 net new jobs and Repub 36,440,000.Per Year Average : Dem = 1,825,200 new jobs vs. Repub = 856,400 new jobs There was either a depression or recession during the administrations of 6 of the 9 Repub presidents The DOW grew by 52% more under Dems, and GDP grew by 26.4% more under Dems
barsense 1 year ago
so where is the money for health care going to come from once its "free"?
matthias2986 1 year ago 6
@matthias2986 The government will pay for it. Its just another thing to try and increase the deficit more. They are timing everything perfect so that the US dollar becomes worthless and goes through hyperinflation before his term is over. This way the next president they put in can play the hero. When the next president comes in they will need a new currency. So he will pass a bill for the Amero. A north american currency between canada, US, and mexico. Then the FED will control 3x the money
buckinfitches 1 year ago
obama is the worst president ever
ibilldavis 1 year ago 6
@ibilldavis If you did a little research and comparison you would find like I did that Obama has done an excellent job considering all that he has had to deal with. Much better than Reagan and the repubs did the last bad recession.
barsense 1 year ago 2
@barsense are you white or black?
ibilldavis 1 year ago
@ibilldavis I am white and in my 50' s , parents were middle class in the south. Extremely prejudiced as so many are in the south and I am ashamed to say for many years so was I. It took some setbacks and hardtimes not of my own making with the resulting struggle to get back on solid ground financially that got me looking around and opened my eyes and heart. Why do you ask ?
barsense 1 year ago
@barsense I am white, 50 years old, blue collar union member, in Chicago. You just answered my question, obama was elected because of white guilt.
ibilldavis 1 year ago
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From Harding In 1921 to Bush in 2003, Democrats held the White House for 40 years, and Republicans for 42.5 years. During this time1. Democrats created 75,820,000 net new jobs and Republicans 36,440,000.2. Per Year Average : Democrats = 1,825,200 new jobs vs. Republicans = 856,400 new jobs.3. There was either a depression or a recession during the administrations of 6 of the 9 Republican presidents.4. The DOW grew by 52% more under Democrats and The GDP grew by 26.4% more under Democrats
barsense 1 year ago
@ibilldavis Bull, guilt had nothing to do with it, democrats are just better for this country and we like Obama's agenda, intelligence, strength, and courage.
barsense 1 year ago
@barsense I guess attending a racist church for 20 years means nothing to you.
ibilldavis 1 year ago
@ibilldavis LOL, you should do some research on that like I did , for most of those 20 years the congregation was a very mixed congregation and pastor Wright was not fanatic at all, somewhere along the way he had a brain freeze and changed his whole method of preaching and became quite radical but that was after Obama had already started campaigning and his attendence was quite spotty, had a similiar experience myself with my long time white pastor who recently went KKK tune , it happens..
barsense 1 year ago
@ibilldavis I would have asked him if he was a drooler or poop thrower.
Anonywriter 1 year ago
@Anonywriter ??????????????
ibilldavis 1 year ago
@ibilldavis It was aimed toward barsense, who's name actually makes sense since you have to bar your common sense to be a liberal.
That was the question that I would have asked him, not if he were white or black.
Anonywriter 1 year ago
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From what I suspect is that the old rule that says "Even if a citizen does not have health insurance a hospital still must treat them" that rule has been abolished right under our noses in favor of so -called high prices passed to corporate and the consumer.
Now what will be passed is death
Anytime money is the justification of death its just evil to me. It may be a legitamate reason for some but personally I think its better to murder those who would ordain money of life than the contrary
Amerikaten 1 year ago
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Most people don't know whats in the Healthcare Bill because they have been "GIVEN" the facts by the media and never once had to use their own analytical skills to evaluate it first hand. So basically its an abstract and ppl are believing in what they can't see based on how much trust they have in the messenger. And the messenger is the media and politicians?
Amerikaten 1 year ago 2
my name is john malone and I do not approve of this message
Siagos 1 year ago 6
yeah it wont send people to jail nor will it fine them, it was just blank paper, we can burn it to ashes and make recycled green cards and money out of it so that you and americaten can buy signs and fall in line with massa
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago
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@duionmytrycycle Remember the truth, without Immigrants you would not have the buildings you have now, Republicans needed Immigrants more than the immigrants needed Republicans, you would not have the money to succeed or even build an industry, and that the Immigrants and Latinos who have immigrants have 55 percent of the vote. So if i am you, i would watch what i say, because if you keep criticising Immigrants as a republican, then you can bet that Latinos will vote them out easily.
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
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Just like Jesus who used death Satans ultimate tactic and divided satans own house against himself . So is it today in the world where god is using dark hearts to create light. Those who possess such a hard heart will commit to being disagreeable and through that will come the core of god's logic and wrath.
Amerikaten 1 year ago
@Amerikaten So yore saying saying white people are the devil if they disagree with barrack obama.. right ... once again this kind of dumbassery is intolerable
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago 4
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@duionmytrycycle lol no but you are associated with KKK and the Tea Party if you are opposed to Obama. I mean let's face facts man, you can say it's not true and Republicans are no way racists, but it seems that way on Capital Hill, and the Republican leaders are just supporting the Tea party to get into office for another term. It's a sad fact, but Republicans have been on the WRONG side of history.
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago 2
@Crazyfrankie666 your calling me KKK because i dont want a bill, signed by the people that it will send to jail?<?< you guys are fucking idiots!!! and when you, who supported this bill, get the fees to pay for it, (FREE HEALTH CARE) <haha
let me know how well it works,, also stop praising yourself for witty little comments, i really dont give a shit, but know that those who sold it to you, lied to you! you think nancy pelosi cares about your grandmother? yea just as much as G B cares about mine.
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago 4
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@duionmytrycycle lol of course, because look how you type and how cocky you are, it will not send people to jail at all, but you know why the fees are there? because simply put you(The republican party) refused control from Government run healthcare, or even anything reforming healthcare for that matter.Health care would have been free in all essence like it is in England or Canada, if we signed UNIVERSAL Healthcare, but guess what, we are going to pay more taxes, thanks to your ignorence.
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
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@duionmytrycycle And besides if you do not care man why even comment me, and why can you not respond to the other things, i just told you? because it's common sense and it's the truth you choose not to believe. To be honest it will work in the end, because what works for the U.K and Canada works for the U.S to, and who is to say that we can not modify the taxes in coming years anyways. It may not be TRUE reform but it's reform in the right direction.
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
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@duionmytrycycle Opposing Health Care Reform, Social Security, Unemployment Benefits. Besides those who disagree with Barack Obama have no real reason to hate him except that hes black/democrat that is the only reason. But for George W Bush, he was just a fucking idiot who did not know how to run a country, failed on killing Osama, and found no weapons in Iraq essentially just a failure cashing in on the peoples misfortunes.
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
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@duionmytrycycle That's how Capitalism will always be until Capitalism stops working for Wall Street and starts working for the people like anyone before Ronald Raegon. So there you go i just foiled your "Dumbassery:" with a reality check.
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
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@duionmytrycycle P.S if you want to involve religion into the discussion, i will say that if Jesus was alive today, he would not approve of Capitalism nor Republican idealogy. Because in the bible it is written "Woe is the rich and wealthy are the poor" that is from St Lukes Gospel. Besides if you truly believed in Religion or the Constitution even you would know it is Democratic. All republican idealogy is, is based on the American Dream, and Republicans have cashed in on it.
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
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@duionmytrycycle No I don't say whites are evil for not agreeing with Obama thats silly
I say they are evil based on the logic I received from god, their historic track record and their current state of mind and actions.
Amerikaten 1 year ago
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@duionmytrycycle No, people who are fucking idiots, such as yourself believe in the illusion or negativity of the fact that "Health Care reform is such a bad thing, it's just higher taxes" so much that you do not see life through an open lense(Helping people who NEED IT rather than those who do not), but you see it in terms of "Black and White" instead of color.
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
@Amerikaten Thanks for helping me man.
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
@Crazyfrankie666 I believe it was Winston Churchill that said "If your not a liberal at 20 you don't have a heart, and if your not conservative by 30 you don't have a brain." Grow up. I hope you get a good job and make big bucks. We who have worked all our lives to watch this jackass Obama suck our hard earned bucks away will see how you feel about paying for those "not so fortunate".
ammagic11 1 year ago 6
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@ammagic11 lol well times have changed my friend, you have to understand that your mind can not comprehend nor understand that only 10percent truly pass college because of the high expenses of college, and how can you pay for college when you have to worry about healthcare? you simply can not. We are not talking about the NOT so fortunate, because the not so fortunate use to be the ones who came from middle class homes,
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
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@ammagic11 and now they are out on the streets, you are just as fucking idiotic as Bill O Reilly when he says "there are not World War Vets out on the streets" thats just what i like to call using fiction over fact, when fact triumphs fiction. Besides nobody really earns big bucks anymore ever since Government became corperate thanks to Ronald Raegon.
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
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@ammagic11 Who i believe one of his top advisors is from... YOU GUESS IT GOLDMAN SACHS who made sure that Banks/Corperations owned companies, has frozen pay for maximum productivity, and to this day it happens, so your not any richer no matter how high of a rank you are at in an occupation.
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
@ammagic11 So in essence were just barrowing money when we are getting payed, we are not really getting paid anything. In the Bush era a dollar pays for a nickels worth and in Obamas era we are getting out of the recession, and auctully holding wall street accountable. Besides when did Bush or Raegon or any of these "Great" presidents did that? fucking never, so shut fuck up with your ego
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
@ammagic11 stop acting like your a corperation, and realize the truth that Capitalism is not what it use to be, and it has FAILED, and now Democracy is now learning from the mistakes of Republic and auctully making America better. Besides Obama has not made any mistakes really, and if you think Bush is better than name me 5 things he said he would do and did, and you will find he did absolutely nothing but
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
@Crazyfrankie666 omg do you work for obama and make it look like he has good comments!?!
Siagos 1 year ago 2
@Siagos Man shut the fuck up, if you do not like Barack Obama then why did you come here to stir up controversey? because you have nothing to do with your pathetic existence.
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
@Crazyfrankie666 I'm sorry. I didn't realize that I was not allowed onto this page of YouTube. Before I go to another page on the internet, will you please tell me where I AM allowed to go? I thought this forum was for people to discuss things, not just say, "I agree with those people here. We think alike. We have the exact same opinion. I'm glad I think for myself." Obviously, if you don't love Obama and everything he says and does, you are banned from talking to those who do.
HnFLabs 1 year ago 5
@HnFLabs lol well with all due respect, this is not a FORUM site, it is a social networking site, it is similiar in some aspects, but if you do not like what the PRO Obama people tell you then you should go. Well the reason for that is because we like Obama, we subscribe to his page, and then we get the nasty pro republican comments that swing from the far right. Instead of the moderate comments from the right. It is shameful to be honest.
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
@Crazyfrankie666 So, what you're saying is that this site is only for those who agree. How intellectually incestuous.
HnFLabs 1 year ago 3
@Siagos I'm sorry to inform you that this comment page is only supposed to be for those who love Obama, not for anyone who might disagree with him. Also, I've been informed that if you disagree with "The One," you hate black people, love greed, hate God, and are just all around unworthy to breath the same air as real people (defined here as those who believe "The One" with unswerving loyalty). We should just shut up and die for not thinking what we're told to think.
HnFLabs 1 year ago 6
@HnFLabs I...I...I can't believe it, but its all so clear now. My eyes are opened.
Thank you good sir. Thank thee for opening mine eyes to the truth. I doth seen the folly of mine ways.
For so long, how could this fool blasphemer been so blind to the truth of The One? In my awakening, I am now burdened with the guilt of sacrilege. I can only make humble penance for my apostasy. Please excuse me.
~TheHolyDarkness Out on a Journey of Redeeming Purification~
TheTrueHolyDarkness 1 year ago
@ammagic11 put America on life support and did not acknowledge the problems we were facing at the pump, grocery store until a year later, so you can say and rationalize what you want to believe, but facts are facts, and you have no facts but opinion, so just get out of here, and take your beating like a man.
Crazyfrankie666 1 year ago
God is allowing a simple principle of opposites to run its course.
God has seen the afflictions of the African Americans and the cruelty and pestilence done to them at the hand of the devil.
So all of the things blacks hated about this country and fought to solve and could not
the devil himself will be tricked into fixing it for them.
blacks say " duck season" the devil says "wabbit season"
Elect a black pres.....the devil says 'duck season"
the blacks say " no wabbit season" but with a smirk
Amerikaten 1 year ago
calling obama god is not only creepy but it goes against that book you keep abusing to call people evil who disagree with killing babies in the womb -ie- abortion if you support abortion rights you in turn support killing children in the womb, -ie- murder = sin = evil so therefore abortion = killing = murder = sin = evil. thus the false god has been exposed. thank you for playing, but next time you call someone a liar at least provide facts, and stop with the whole ObamaGod concept its lame.
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago 6
@duionmytrycycle You are a liar You say I called Obama god in order to find a safe spot for debate but you lied your way over there by saying I called Obama God.
Once again you being a child of satan and a inherent instinctive liar like your father I can expect that from you.
But let me remind you of your future haha who eventually wins?
I feel real good to know that
Amerikaten 1 year ago
@Amerikaten said= By way of the God Head you have to hate him because you are opposite of God. not to mention other creepy stuff about this Obamagod. keep calling me a liar man they can check the post if they really want to read your crazy bullshit dumbassery,, nuff said.
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago
@duionmytrycycle Yeah god created the light and the darkness the up and the down , So in that course every time you see something good of god you automatically position your self on the opposite side Satan is the opposite. But its not your fault you were chosen to be a child of Satan. Just like Pharaoh was raised just to be knocked off by Moses. Pharaoh swore there was no God and just couldn't see. So it is with all the Obama haters. They know not what they do however its all in Gods plan
Amerikaten 1 year ago
America has been a corrupt country since its inception. Slavery and murder were legal for many years not to mention the many other evils. The whole HealthCare system cursed this country into believing a dollar has precedence over a life. To a point where you devils will back paying high prices over healing ppl
Healing is of God. Putting a valuless dollar over life is just evil especially when the dollar can't breath or have blood. Not only that it is valued on zero no oil no gold.
Amerikaten 1 year ago
@Amerikaten someone needs a hug!
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago
Song name? :)
creation966 1 year ago
@EnigmaHood so you never listened to your parents or did what they asked you or believed anything they said? I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful I'm just asking. On the contrary, I have the greatest respect for any fellow American.
jhortons 1 year ago
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Thank you President Obama for such a brilliant plan, I, as an American citizen approve of this 100%. You are a brilliant leader and I am proud to have you in charge of my country, once again, thank you very much President Obama.
mikethequeenfan 1 year ago
Thank you President Obama for such a brilliant plan, I, as an American citizen approve of this 100%. You are a brilliant leader and I am proud to have you in charge of my country, once again, thank you very much President Obama.
mikethequeenfan 1 year ago
Thank you President Obama for such a brilliant plan, I, as an American citizen approve of this 100%. You are a brilliant leader and I am proud to have you in charge of my country, once again, thank you very much President Obama.
mikethequeenfan 1 year ago
Wow. Again, I am not advocating violence. FYI, name-calling is often considered a form of violence nowadays. Just in case you're not up-to-date.
And no argument? From where does the conflict arise and the conversation continue? Are we in agreement? No. You seem to have found some kind of argument in all of this, even if it may not be what you want to argue about. Apparently, we care about different parts of the issue.
Others may respect your opinion more if you know when it's exhausted.
omgoneleven 1 year ago
You have a lot of sick ppl who don't realize how sick they are
Take these HealthCare reform haters
They are so sick that their hate for a politicians overrides their ability to be rational even at the cost of their own health.
They would rather to have bad health than see a person they hate succeed in helping them.
OBAMA need to say " HELP ME HELP YOU"
A republican would rather die than be given mouth to mouth by a democrat.
America can't afford this type of sillyness
Amerikaten 1 year ago
@Amerikaten said--Of course you dont know any god -sent soldier
Hell you dont know god..?!?!?
You fucking support abortion (killing babies) and your gonna tell me about god?!?! dude shut the fuck up and stop embarrassing yourself, and when you say help us, do you mean pre-screen us with cancer swabs so they can turn us away later?!? yeah nice,, Amerikaten=I love my obama care massa says its good for me.
fuckin moron
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago 6
@duionmytrycycle Your hatred has blinded you from the wisdom of God which is wiser than man. So when you look you will not see and when you listen you will not hear. Your destiny is to fall sick with hate for you create lies to justify your hate like "killing babies or Obama is giving us cancer" LoL you are a liar. You tell lies in the face of truth which proves you are indeed a child of Satan
Satan always presents himself opposite of god when God laughs Satan cries.
God is good always
Amerikaten 1 year ago
nixon didn't do crap for reform, but I agree with the rest. Check out SICKO from Michael Moore to hear Nixon side with and actually help create, evil health care legislation. I love you Obama, but check your facts to keep this thing alive, our credibility on this. Long live reform!!
WolfmanMusic 1 year ago
Obama is still a soldier of the MOST HIGH GOD his gold is your feces and your feces is his gold.
By way of the God Head you have to hate him because you are opposite of God. How can Satan love the works of the Lord? How can God have compassion on Satan?
We are at a point in time where centuries of satan induced backward thinking is being rebuked.
" Let this stone fall on you and crush you and ye be broken"
" Or fight it and be broken but into dust"
Amerikaten 1 year ago
@Amerikaten Somebodys definitely getting high
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago
@duionmytrycycle No matter the volume of lies you tell it will not hide the truth it will just make you into a liar
Trying to replace the truth with a lie was Satan's first trick. I caught you in the act.
You are afraid to come to the light because you fear that your evils will be shown
as wrong. But until you do you will in no wise see the kingdom. Laugh all you want but you will soon cry
You hate God so you can keep up your evil You don't believe because you live in sin.
Amerikaten 1 year ago
anybody know the name of this SONG?
incubus376 1 year ago
hey pssst. Amerikaten looky here
racist - a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others-also racism-1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
see also, people who disagree with Barrak Obama.<------wait what? when the hell did that happen?????????
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago 4
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@duionmytrycycle I can't either - I have a job and have been without it for 8 years. If you honestly don't make enough money, this isn't going to affect the money you bring in. It's going to raise taxes on people who can actually AFFORD it, and simply take away from some of those luxuries they fight so hard to protect. By the sound of your posts, you can afford to lose something... starting with your arrogance.
omgoneleven 1 year ago
@omgoneleven It's going to raise taxes on people who can actually AFFORD it, this isn't going to affect the money you bring in
if you really believe that that's gonna be the case then i have nothing else to say. but what i would like to know is how you plan to pay for all this if you only take from people making 250k or more a year, you do realize the math doesn't add up right? so who do we raise taxes on after that?? and better yet, what should we tax those evil people who worked so hard?
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago 3
@duionmytrycycle "Evil?" I don't believe in that. There are people who make less and work JUST as hard, sometimes harder, and may simply not be as lucky.
Also, I'm not saying people who can afford it have an annual income of 250k or more. Some people in my own family make more than 60k. That is MUCH more than I've ever made, and I live in an area with MUCH higher living expenses. They also have health care and many luxuries I do not. You think I think their income help me to SURVIVE? Hell yes.
omgoneleven 1 year ago
@duionmytrycycle
Whats with the fear mongering?
Until you actually see a tax raised then talk until then you are a lying ass
Its inevitable anyways your gas price goes up your electicity bill goes up your income goes up and fucking taxes go the fuck up.
Stop being silly this is not 1824
Amerikaten 1 year ago
@Amerikaten
It is however 1984
Jcolinsol 1 year ago
They are stealing from the middle class, and giving to super rich.
It's not that welfare is wrong, or that taxation is bad. When you seize resources from people, by force, you are fundamentally de-stabilizing society.
The state thus, IS, chaos.
Jcolinsol 1 year ago 2
@Jcolinsol I'm a little confused by this comment. Do you mean "state" as in "the state of things," or "state" as in Texas, California, Maryland...?
Besides that, I just can't fathom how people still think that this is going to take money away from the "middle class" and give it to the "super rich." Leaving things the way they are will only cause the gap between people separated by income levels to widen even more.
omgoneleven 1 year ago
@omgoneleven
I mean the group of people belonging to the compulsory monopoly on the initiation of force within the geographic region commonly referred to as "The United States". In common, and inaccurate, parlance the U.S. government.
It's because they are forcing everyone to buy insurance, obviously this is a boon for the insurance corporations. People who work for big corporations tend to benefit from the advantages that the state gives them, and they become super-rich. This is an example.
Jcolinsol 1 year ago
@Jcolinsol If this goes through, it will not be forcing everyone to buy insurance from those insurance corporations. Instead of our health insurance being bought from private corporations, it would be separate, like a federal "company," so-to-speak. Two working examples of this now are the motor vehicle commission and post office, which are currently government-run. The government is for the benefit of it's people... private corporations are for personal profit and gain.
omgoneleven 1 year ago
@omgoneleven
It will be forcing people to buy insurance. Forced, enforced, with fines, prison, and ultimately violence. This is not civilized.
Second, the public option, the government option is not a solution. The state is no better than a private business. In most cases it is worse because it is a monopoly on the provision of the service, and usually paid for with extorted tax money. Just because we think that state should be for the benefit of the people, doesn't mean it is.
Jcolinsol 1 year ago 5
@omgoneleven
Also, a "corporation" is just a state sponsored business. They get regulations, tax breaks, and lobby perks, i.e. state sponsored benefits that allow them to become larger than they should be. They also have no owner, so a corporation is not accountable for its actions. Private business is not the same as corporate business.
Also, the post office and the dmv, are examples of how inefficient, expensive, and poor quality goods and services are when provided by a single monopoly.
Jcolinsol 1 year ago 2
@Jcolinsol I used, "like a federal 'company,' so-to-speak," as I am trying to get an idea through to you. I used "corporation," for the lack of a better term at the time to simply communicate the fact that it will be basically the same "thing." E.g. Starbucks corporation = business, company, etc. Starbucks is, of course, not exactly the same as a "mom and pop" coffee shop... nevertheless, they are both coffee shops.
omgoneleven 1 year ago
@omgoneleven
What idea is it that you are trying to express? It's unclear to me. Can you restate it?
Jcolinsol 1 year ago
@Jcolinsol Well, I wasn't finished with my reply at that time - I had to split it due to the character limit.
Anyway, I am done for now. If you still don't understand where I'm coming from, try my latest video. I originally included the link, but it didn't work.
If that doesn't clear things up, then oh well...perhaps we must simply agree to disagree and part our merry ways. It does not feel worth all of this time to argue with one stubborn person in these character-limited comment boxes.
omgoneleven 1 year ago
@Jcolinsol I've never had one problem with the post office or the dmv.
Also, about forcing people to buy insurance... ultimately, violence? Fearing the unknown is natural... but that's a pretty paranoid statement.
You say it's not a solution? Neither you, nor I, know that...but what I and many others DO know is what we have now does not work. If you think it does, then you are very unaware outside of yourself.
There's no way to know if we don't try, and if we don't try, nothing can improve.
omgoneleven 1 year ago
@omgoneleven
It;s not paranoid at all, This is fundamental nature of the state. A monopoly on the initiation of force. If you are so completely oblivious as to not observe this fact, you really shouldn't be making prescriptive statements.
And I am well aware that the system as it currently exists does not work, and I am against it. I also recognize that it is the heavy intervention into the health-care industry by the state that has created the current circumstance.
Jcolinsol 1 year ago
@omgoneleven
The last 3 times I went to the post office or DMV, I had to wait in line 20-30 minutes just to get to the window. This is a representation of the result of a state monopoly: inefficiency.
If we were talking about a single payer system, it would be sick people, waiting in line, or being refused service (happens in the Canadian system).
Any solution is going to rely on integration with a functional economy, the state is inherently removed from the equilibrium of the economy.
Jcolinsol 1 year ago 2
@Jcolinsol Wow... a whole 30 minutes? How inefficient. My commute to work is longer.
Um, sick people wait in line and are refused service now. It's called, "having a terminal illness and not having health care."
You know how to solve this? Run for president, win the election, and prove it. Then maybe you can give it a shot and see if it works out. Can't do that? Well, the previous administration had it's chances. Let this one give it a shot.
omgoneleven 1 year ago
@omgoneleven
You failed to refute any of my points. You merely attempted to ridicule them. Intellectually dishonest
Running for President solves nothing. You cannot solve social conflicts with violence, you maroon
It's definitely getting its shot, alright. You simply have faith that it will work, whereas I can observe the ways in which it won't be working. Just wait till the republicans get in office again, then you'll see how institutions protect the interests of the public
Jcolinsol 1 year ago
@Jcolinsol There's no point in trying to refute a point that can't be made - nothing has happened yet. You say I'm intellectually dishonest, yet act like as though there's some kind of truth in what you're saying although it cannot be proven. You have no evidence to support the self-declared truths in your argument.
Unlike you, I don't wait for things "not to work." I simply observe, and make my conclusions based on those observations.
Fyi, "maroon" is a color. I think you meant "moron."
omgoneleven 1 year ago
@omgoneleven
I called you intellectually dishonest, because you did not refute my arguments, you merely ridiculed them. This is basic stuff.
I am not waiting for it "not to work", I am projecting that likely it will not work, based on the sum total of observations to date. It's like saying, "Well, you can't say that people WON'T evolve wings, just wait and see" while I reply, "Everything that we know about evolution demonstrates that it is highly unlikely that people will evolve wings"
Jcolinsol 1 year ago
@Jcolinsol Evolution has evidence. Your argument does not. You provided much to ridicule, but nothing to refute.
*shrug*
omgoneleven 1 year ago
@omgoneleven
I would totally be facepalming if I were in to that sort of thing
Needless to say, this behavior on your part, is clearly intellectual dishonest. You are, as you have through this whole, well I hesitate to call it a debate, posited little, and refuted nothing
You are simply finding ways to avoid legitimate discussion of the matter because, I think, you are out of your depth
Jcolinsol 1 year ago 3
@Jcolinsol I disagree. I find your paranoid beliefs about the government, which you seem to talk of as truths... to put it simply, schizophrenic. I refrained from saying that in my previous post and cut it short, however, as I did not want you to think I was saying that just to insult you. However, I suppose that you probably think that now, anyway.
Anyway, since I think we have different perceptions of reality and/or the world around us, I see no way to move forward in this conversation.
omgoneleven 1 year ago
@omgoneleven
It's not paranoid to point out that the state is a monopoly on the initiation of force. It's baldly observable.
If you refuse to obey "the law" you will be fined, or imprisoned, and if you refuse, "the police" will either drag you to jail, or execute you while "resisting arrest".
In this case "the law" is being forced to buy insurance. Nothing paranoid about this, you just seem to be ignorant of how the state actually works.
Jcolinsol 1 year ago 2
@Jcolinsol Well, in your past comments, I think that you got a little too carried away and exaggerated those observations. It's a shame if you or someone you know has had some really bad experiences with law enforcement, but I think it's common sense that resisting arrest is typically not the best idea. Also, the way laws are enforced will vary drastically depending upon where you are and who the officer may be... but this has been exhausted, and that's really all for another argument, anyway.
omgoneleven 1 year ago
@omgoneleven
Not really. See, it's not "paranoia" at all, I don't fear the state. As a law abiding, mutually respectful Anarchist, I don't encounter the police very often.
You are presupposing that police violence is justified,
Offer an argument. Why are you for the use of force? Why are your offering justifications for the police?
Do you think it is right for police to threaten people, if they do something so harmless and innocuous as to choose not to purchase health-insurance?
Jcolinsol 1 year ago
@Jcolinsol Of course you are. It was obvious by your arguments. But frankly, I believe people need other people to moderate their behavior, and those people need people to moderate them, and so on. I consider it part of our job as citizens to influence and elect those we see fit for positions of power.
Anyway, I'm not offering an argument, because I think you should take it up with someone else who cares to argue on the topic to law enforcement. That seems to be your real concern.
omgoneleven 1 year ago
@omgoneleven
Yeah, well, you haven't offered an argument in this debate to date. You've simply evaded any kind of real discourse. As far as I can tell, your political philosophy is without any kind of coherent structure. If I'm wrong in interpreting it that way, feel free to elaborate on your political philosophy over private message.
Regardless though, You are still the one advocating the use of violence, and the existence of a monopoly on the initiation of violence. Consider that.
Jcolinsol 1 year ago
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omgoneleven 1 year ago
Point is i dont care if you're purple, get off you're ass and get a job. if you cant afford something, you fucked up. its pathetic and unfair period. you think its a race thing? bullshit, Obama won by a landslide when he was elected! And if anyone needs a recount im sure i can find the page.
by the way ima RayCyst just in case Jcolinsol or somebody else forgets to put that in there somewhere on there comments again, wouldn't wanna forget that shit, somebody might think we forgot. AHYUK
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago
@duionmytrycycle
It's not that people need to get jobs to get health-insurance. In fact, that is precisely the problem. Insurance never should have been made mandatory by the state. And businesses only started giving insurance as a benefit because the state enforced wage caps. The whole problem with the health-care industry is that the state has intervened.
In truth we WANT an appropriate modicum of welfare, we are just stupid to expect the state to provide it.
Jcolinsol 1 year ago 2
Well what is the republican solution then?
Not a dam thing all they are interested in is blocking anything Obama does.
Pussy ass crybabies only cry and complain and don't do nothing fuck yall
Amerikaten 1 year ago
The Republicans are just crybabies. They are the part of fear, the Democrats are the part of hate. Luckily, we aren't dependent on these emotionally insecure basket cases, we rely on only one thing: the principle of emergence.
Don't look to the state to provide solutions, order is polycentric, it is literally your actions that create the order.
Jcolinsol 1 year ago
@Jcolinsol
I agree and at any time we can all decide to lose our confidence in the American dollar and break this shit up.
The republicans are hate and fear because those to traits are of lucifer. The battle now is of good and evil. Light and dark. God vs Satan.
the democrats want good health for the ppl and the reps want ppl to die so its just essentially good vs evil
I really believe Obama has been sent as a soldier of God
However I'm a soldier too for the Lord
Amerikaten 1 year ago
@Amerikaten
No, you have missed my point.
There is no right or wrong, good or evil. This is not a moral issue, there is no morality.
This is a matter of evolution, emergence, polycentric social order.
Jcolinsol 1 year ago
@Jcolinsol there is no morality.--Now ill agree with you there.
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago
@Amerikaten you said__ republicans want ppl to die so its just essentially good vs evil I really believe Obama has been sent as a soldier of God----
WT? He supports abortion and is friends with a domestic terrorist WILLIAM AYERS anyone?!?! Maybe you meant soldier of jihad, Becouse i dont know any god-sent soldier who would condone killing babies in the womb!!!
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago 10
@duionmytrycycle
Of course you dont know any god -sent soldier
Hell you dont know god
You can't say you are a republican and a person of God at the same time thats an oxymoron
Amerikaten 1 year ago
@Jcolinsol
Of course its our actions that maintain order. Any of the millions of Americans can act a dam ass at any time. If one group choose to rebel against the country that doesn't mean that everyone else will sit idle while they act up. I think those who are clinging to their guns and their devil worshipping is in for a big surprise because the battle will render those guns useless due new technologies that isn't even taught or told in school that will be used on them.
Amerikaten 1 year ago
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@ksbertrand This is coming from a child who
is the product of socialized education.
EnigmaHood 1 year ago
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@jhortons Only morons like you can't
think for themselves. Yes, you do listen to
what your parents tell you because you are a
brainwashed sheep. Sorry child, but you are
simply too stupid for me to have an intelligent
conversation with. I have no respect for idiots,
which is why I have no respect for you. Keep
crying about your rights being violated. It makes
you look even more childish.
EnigmaHood 1 year ago
@EnigmaHood What all you liberals are scared to say is, that the white man is gonna foot the bill again, some blacks some Hispanics... but the majority of the money will come from us middle class hard working white people. then i have to turn around and listen to people say im racist on cnn becouse i dont support a health care for crackheads bill!! get a job, or go to school i dont care wich but take youre BS bill and this bulls#it obama bill to kenya.
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago 4
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@duionmytrycycle Racism never entered the picture until you brought it in. Clearly your opinions are motivated by racism, and that's why you are a racist. Thank you for revealing that on your own. Dumb people tend to completely destroy any valid argument they may have had.
EnigmaHood 1 year ago
@EnigmaHood What do you mean you people?!?!?!
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago 2
@EnigmaHood Cool. But if you dont want to hear the truth from the other side of the isle why bother writing me, all i said was the truth, its another bill that dumps billions in taxpayer dollars that I pay into communities that pay close to/or none meaning my taxes go up so that people who receive them get benefits?!? yeah I must be and idiot to disagree with that huh?
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago
@duionmytrycycle No, you aren't telling the truth, you are ranting about your racist tendencies, and I replied to you because you replied to my post. I could ask you the same thing, why are you replying to my comments? You're an idiot to be a racist, and try to rationalize it through your bullshit excuses.
EnigmaHood 1 year ago
@EnigmaHood hey and when are you gonna give that racist word a break? i already sponsor tons of blacks and whites with welfare checks asshole
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago
@EnigmaHood = LeHoo Sahuur
duionmytrycycle 1 year ago