@ATXgooner Che was not a racist or else he wouldn't have had his closest companion in Cuba be black, if not he would not have fought for the Congo, if not he would not have spoken out against the brutality of the USA against their own women and children because they where black, If not he wouldn't have praised Malcolm x , stop this divide and conquer tactic please.
@cooltoye actually Che killed prisoners of war, rapists and murderers, it's simply calling a state that has the death penalty a Murderer it's silly and please do people actually buy that story of japan? Japan had long surrendered . Not only that but the USA wasn't neutral they where providing for both sides and wanted to join to be part of thevictory
America wished to remain neutral in WWII. The Japanese attacked Perl Harbor, after pretending to want peace. Unlike the backstabbing Japanese, we gave them a warning to surrender, we told them we had a weapon that could end the war. They refused surrender and we bombed one of their most industrialized cities, which is attacking part of the war machine. We gave them another chance to surrender, they refused, so we bombed again, only than did they surrender.
@ giantrobotzodd, if che was a murderder, wat do u call the USA who killed over 20,000 people over nine years for no reason in iraq using tax money from the people. Che had a real reason, USA had a false reason. CHE IS A FREEDOM FIGHTER!!
@alanya1996 I'm sorry, but this question is as rhetorical as it is ignorant. Go and actually READ about Che Guevara's exploits in Congo, and then read his opinion on the Congolese after it was over.
The guy at the end has a good point, the US has killed millions of innocent people including children, in Iraq and no one really cares. Yet Che is a monster. Remember tho with this film, it is presenting a revolution, about the sorts of people who make change in this world, ruthless violence, might is right. There are more violent warlords than Gandhis out there, including Che and our gov.
The old "His actions were necessary" routine: Yes, well so-so did kill 4000 people, rape their children, tortured a baby to death, never had any sex that wasn't him raping someone and wore a necklace made of eyeballs, but from my point of view...he was doing it for poor people.
"I have yet to find a single credible source pointing to a case where Che executed 'an innocent'. Those persons executed by Guevara or on his orders were condemned for the usual crimes punishable by death at times of war or in its aftermath: desertion, treason or crimes such as rape, torture or murder. I should add that my research spanned five years, and included anti-Castro Cubans among the Cuban-American exile community in Miami and elsewhere."
Che’s radicalism was spawned from living in Guatemala during the 1953 overthrow of Jacobo Arbenz by the CIA at the behest of the United Fruit Company (those lovely capitalists who liked to kill brown Central Americans so Americans could have cheap bananas).
Che saw the brutality of U$ Imperialism up close, and gave his life in Bolivia to defeat it. Che fought 3 U.S.-backed dictators during his life (Batista, Mobutu, Barrientos).
History may not ever see such a brave man again. VIVA CHE!!
What i know about Che Guevara is what several of my relatives experienced when they were exiled from their country for being doctors and lawyers. That is that Che Guevara was a murderous communist zealot, who wanted to obliterate any traces of entrepreneurship and development. So yeah i am gonna take the word of one of my uncles who spent 20 years in political prison in Cuba for committing the crime of owning a tobacco plantation then the word of some Hollywood know it all snob.
Soderbergh did a fantastic job at explaining the thought process that went into presenting this particular film the way he did. It's a cinematic masterpiece what he did.
The Red-One camera he used for this made the film look absolutely badass
A lot of people debating what Soderbergh says aren't really getting what he's saying (partially because he's not explaining himself very concisely or well). In short, he wasn't interested in judging Che. He was interesting in making a flick about the facts of his revolution and throwing it up on screen for the audience to judge.
If we use Soderbergh analysis, we can conclude that Hitler had a cause and believed in it. The German people stood behind him all the way. Yes he was ruthless hard ass with a cause. Now Hitler's dilema lasted from 1932 to 1945. Cuba's dilema from Fidel and Che lasted from 1959 to present. Hitler was responsible for the death of 50 million people. Fidel and Che were responsible for how many? Che's legacy still lives in Cuba and followed by "comunist countries" around the world. Would he be proud?
@sailor123ize well, soderbergh explained well why make a movie about che, not why he was a good person. many movies have been made about hitler, and no one gives a fuck. your'e not very good at logic are you? how can you compare a revolutionary war that brought healthcare and education to a population that would be like haiti nowadays, to a complete genocide fueled by rascism. hitler practiced eugenics. he used propaganda. the only similarity shared between them is that they threatened US profit
Anyone can scream and yell rhetoric, but few can make an artistic piece that portrays, as accurately as possible, the life of someone who did more than just scream and yell rhetoric. It's nice to see that they film provoked a discussion at least.
point taken.. the US has serious issues. The important thing is to pay attention to the fact that all have caused a huge amount of suffering and injustice. study all the mistakes, and try to properly avoid repeating those mistakes. But rating the horrible atrocities is extremely disrepctful to the lost souls and their families. I know this because I feel this pain as a family member.
@MrMikep555 no country is perfect. this is by no means of the injustices brought though. However what this nation truly stands for is good( all be it the gov is to blame) And if i read you correctly it is terrible to point at the horrors of the past and morph them for ones own agenda. I personally am amused be the stupidity of some of these people i mean Washington fought tyranny but he didn't slaughter people like che did. che was a coward and i'm disgusted at todays stupid youth's admiration
@ANDY82ize i get where your coming from with your point, but no one is perfect, now you may not like Che but he died honourably fighting for what he believed even when held captive by those who hated him, the real reason people idolize che is not because of his actions but because of his convictions and what he stood for, I personnally admire Che and I don't appriciate being called "stupid youth" solely because of something that i have researched and have come to my own conclusion about
Che sat a desk and signed death warrants as dissdents were executed . the united states never came close to that. Neither did G. Washington, he fought in battle, Che was a pussy, he talked a lot and followed with little action. the revolution was primarily desided upon politics.
You can't have an intelligent discussion on Cuba or Che in the U.S., well that pretty much goes for any historical subject, even the U.S.'s own damn history LOL.
The point Soderbergh was trying to make, but didn't want to anger the crowd by saying it so bluntly, is that whether Che Guevara is a murderer or not, depends on ones political views. For a Marxist, Che Guevara was a hero and every act he did was both justified and necessary to achieve in his view, the liberation of mankind.
So for a Neo Nazi Hitler was a good man, for a communist Stalin, Mao, Castro, Che have been excellent human beings, for a Muslim Ayatola Komeini was a heroe. What a lousy world is this? Can anyone be more sensible than that?
yah who wants communism anyway?choose capitalism instead!rape other countries,feed on them and place propaganda in your peoples heads today!ur anti global peace?choose capitalism and make wars for money and oil today!anti freedom?choose capitalism and make a false democracy ruled by others(president being a panw)today?who cares about starving children of africa anyway?we value green papers more than life and morals!Capitalism makin sin business
Che did nothing he died before bringing in any economic ideals. Castro his a billionaire, he gets the Cubans to work for him as slaves, they are poor and he is rich.
@lolwut2011 Imagine is a song, it has no mention of state ownership so it is not socialism. Socialism is state ownership and state planned economies. Capitalism is people owning and people planning.
The Bush admin AND Cuba's communist government are demented motherfuckers, the only difference being where they lie on the political spectrum Che apologists: the new holocaust deniers
Gotta love how people call Che a mass murderer and terrorist (he was both of these things, but also much more), are amongst the same people to defend the necessity of firebombing and nuking cities off the face of the Earth by the US in WWII. They rail against one person who used "the end justifies the means" mentality, but whitewash another. Were the methods used by Che justifiable? I'm not sure, but Americans need to seriously step out of their nationalism and view the world differently.
people are fucking stupid. had they lived in cuba during this bullshit revolution, they would've been on a raft headed to the US so fast it would make their heads spin.
Whether you agree with blowing away crying kids or not, Che was a "warrior". ...Doesn't have the same ring to it, does it? And what kind of a "warrior" was he, you whimpering media geek? He was a warrior who fought to deny the human spirit, and private, personal dreams. He fought for the absolute state. He fought to suppress art, music, and free speech. He fought to eliminate the individual, and the legal protection of the individual. Some "warrior", some "hardass".
I saw a teenager wearing the Che shirt here in Thailand. Funny, because Che put his .45 to the heads of teenage kids who were hired by Battista to carry rifles. When they readily surrendered, Che personally blew their brains out as they whimpered and begged for their lives. No jury trial. With hordes of prisoners screaming from the prison windows that they were just children. Pretty cool! You commies are so hip-cool! Stupid, anti-intellectual thugs. Some "hardass"
I don't know why everyone seems to be comparing Che to Americans. In the eyes of humanity as a whole the man was a cruel, vicious murderer. You can point out all the mistakes that America has made and it doesn't make his crimes any less heinous. Ghandi and Martin Luther King managed to start a revolution without firing a single weapon.
By the way I don't support the wars in the middle east, so you can save your comparisons to those wars for someone else.
@kidmayhem Well try starting with his own diary where he talks about killing peasants and then stealing their possessions. A man Pierre San Martin describes the account of the murder of the 14yr old in a newspaper the El Nuevo Herald. You can read the accounts also in Che Guevara: A Biography Daniel James.
Read the accounts of Javier Arzuaga a chaplin in the Cuban prison where tribunals were held, Or José Vilasuso a lawyer who worked under Che
@kidmayhem. He didn't just execute people who raped tortured and murdered. He murdered peasants, who didn't want to follow him. People who he suspected of treason? Oh and he shot a 14yr old in the neck for trying to defend his father. Oh did I mention he hated black people and imprisoned homosexuals? I will assume you do know this and you are fine with it.
Some of those journalists embarassed themselves. They seem completely incapable of accepting the idea of a subjective viewpoint. Something one would deem fundamental to their profession.
@5446mk a murderer is someone who kills for nothing...much like a serial killer...last i checked revolutions are bloody and like malcolm said "there is no bloodless revolution" a murderer is something like the U.S. military going to iraq a place they have no business being and killing women and children for profit. the massacre of gainir, pat tillman and the propaganda...thats a murderer....murderers dont have objectives.
@getyoasshome "Hatred as an element of struggle; unbending hatred for the enemy, which pushes a human being beyond his
natural limitations, making him into an effective, violent, selective, and cold-blooded killing machine. This is
what our soldiers must become" … Executions Without Trials is Enough for Me, But Good Thing for Us That Che Took is Own Advise (Guerrilla Warfare) and Went To Bolivia
Typical brainwashed American comment, who probably gets his news from Fox.I'd be willing to bet alot of money that most people who accuse Che of murder probably havent read any UNBIASED books on him,or any books on him at all and are simply repeating what they learned from some conservative republican.Whatever happened to seeking knowledge yourself.
Che lovers everywere in western democracies should be swimmig to Cuba or catching a plane to North Korea and go see in first person the wonderfull social organizations that Che fougth for. Bon voyage!
Plenty of brainwashed idiots in the audience. How stupid can you get? Get off your fat asses and read about Che, morons. Guess what, the rest of the world describes him in an entirely different light. Gee, I wonder why. Must be that "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" thing.
@BMVlado well in the U.S. you have to remember "we" have never lost a war, never had slaves, never lied, never killed, never falsely imprisoned and everyone who lives "here" has food, money,clean water, health care, 2 houses a boat and a gold fish....."americanism" at its best.
ignorant Americans El Che didn't believe in the socialist Cuba that Fidel builded , and what the f to that lady that yield go to Miami, Go to La Habana , El Che was a good guy he had good ideas that were betrayed by Fidel Castro because when fidel got the power The US being as soberness As they still are treated him like an idiot so he had to turn The Russians and converted Cuba in a Communist country,
The passions of Che cannot be denied. Do great men do horrible things when your only hope is survival? Of course. Mao, however, is not a hero in the some light as Che. We, as Americans, have become spoiled become young children don't understand the meaning of strife or struggle. We need to reinforce concepts of community which extend beyond our borders. I love you all! ty...thepuppets.tv
Brave man to get up in front of a bunch of those biggot Americans, they are the biggest bunch of brain washed morons around, listen to they way they talk after what their own country has done for hundreds of years all about the globe there are none of them free of guilt bought by their sad countries actions, now and in the past.
Listen to them just sounds like at one Hitlers rallies.
This is why i have come to despise them all!, they want war let them have it!
@cultofmao ok, i can see the debate on che as revolutionary, and I support his vision, but you can't say these things and support Mao Z. That's laughable. Dont be sour we got Obama he is changing everything, so let's have a beer together and chill.
The leader is defined by what ideological stance one has. Che was a hero to those who believed in him. A mass murderer to others. No one ideology is right or wrong. There's only those who believe it's worth fighting for. Unfortunately, Che chose the typical "by any means possible". From an objective neutral stance, Che can only be defined as a murderer.
@TheLoveschach How do you define better off??? They are starving, prostituting themselves for basic needs. They aren't allowed to have different political views like you and I do right now!!! They hunger in their souls for freedom and food!! How does this make them better off. They can't run their own businesses or create their own opportunities because it is not allowed. They are not treated like human beings but more like lab mice.
@thebachars how the hell are people in the united states allowing to be nazis and communist and not be spat upon or even attacked by the cops who look elsewhere, i sent you a prisoner of conscience list in the united states. if you can't accept that both country have political prisoner then you are full of shit.
@crusader651 And there you have it....when you can't explain away the lack of human rights in Cuba you do what is easiest...point the finger at the US. I wasn't sitting here defending the US or discussing the US. It was Cuba's lack of a democracy and basic human rights we were talking about. Stick to the topic.
@thebachars in comparison to what fucking country? are we suppose to care that cuba is not a perfect country? if so try to change the world or shut up. as for your mother, she can go fuck herself. why would a normal citizens know this type of horror. this is absolutly idiotic. she lived and breathed and lied. that's what she did.
@crusader651 You dont care about Cuba and dont have to. You posted comments and I responded. You and every other idiot can call my mother a liar because you cant stand the truth. I don't have to resort to your type of vulgarity. She was there and you hate the fact that your little and I mean little made up idealistic dreams of Che and his kind are not real! They are EVIL!! I won't save the world but you will always be sadly ignorant. Now you can kiss my A#@
@thebachars i care a fucking shitload about cuba. YOU don't care about cuba. what was your mother's ideology by the way? if she is not a former communist. then where the fuck was she protesting for human rights when the batista regime was there? i don't care about che. in fact i think he is far too idealized.
@thebachars listen im not arguing with u all im saying is that there was a dictatorship in chile that was executed by agusto pinochet and both my parents were there and they told me horrible stories and then there are some of their friends that were also there at the time and think that what pinochet did was heroic and no matter how much people suffered in that era they still agree with what he did. ps. my father was in the army at the time the military took over
@thebachars ur never gonna know whos right ooo yea and u know how the USA always tries to save everyone they didn't this time because they were behind it all trying to get their greedy lil hands on the copper mines located in chile that produce millions of dollars in profit. one more thing fidel castro was against pinochet he was actually friends with the president that pinochet murdered contradictions happen im just saying
@TheLoveschach Look, i am not fighting you or anyone else. I just need you to see the truth.My family owned no land, neither did the hundreds of other friends and family we know. It is horrible there. My aunt goes there to visit once a yr. conditions are deplorable. Better than Haiti sure! But not good or even mediocre by any stretch.They cant decide anything for themselves without being turned in to police.It is the truth, I cry as i sit here and tell you.
@TheLoveschach Never said that. However, the people didn't ask for a communistic dictatorship either. Why didn't Castro hold free elections like he promised the people from the start? Why does he only allow controlled TV Radio etc.? Why do the people risk their lives on the sea with shark infested water to get away? Oh I suppose thats the US's fault too. Not the fault of an oppressive, dominating, dictatorship gone very wrong!!! Just look at the people who have come here since then...
Truth is that the Che was a murderer and executioner. NO he did not execute because of typical war crimes, he slaughtered innocent men and and young boys who resisted the Castro evil that was being forced upon them. Big surprise that it is not documented in movies. In this loser liberal left wing society. His was to Castro what Hitler's henchmen were to him. Poor souls who allow themselves to be brainwashed by hollywood bable. I am Cuban and know first hand of what that bastard did.
@crusader651 No I was not there however my mother and father who were NOT part of the social elite as you inferred were there!! My mother was a political prisoner. I think she may have a first hand account of the real events not the fabricated undocumented Hollywood liberal tale.
Its funny the first one's sent to concentration camps set up by Che were those hippie, liberal, left wing, non conformists youth!!! LOL and those are the ones who have elevated him to hero status here in the US.
@thebachars a political prisoner for what? did she receive funding from the united states in order to fund her political activities? oh and if you want to bitch about cuban political prisoners how can you respond to prisonactivist. org? i will send you the link in pm.
@crusader651 No, she was a twenty three yr old girl who worked in a fabric shop and she and her co workers were picked up in the systematic round up of suspicious people against the Revolution. For two months they tormented them hounded them, terrorized them demanding information. Threatening death if they opposed the revolution. One girl (pregnant) was taken for questioning from the group and never came back or ever seen again. That is justified???
@crusader651 I am giving you first hand information from my mother who was in one of those make shift prisons for two months. I can't get a more first hand source than that. I am not talking about strangers or people that I have never met. Like you who have only read books. My mother lived and breathed it. Why can't you see that?
@thebachars I know right, and there is actually a part in the movie were he says : '' don't kill them, ake them in has prisonners of war, they have a right to a trial'' How sick is that?
@TheProgressistViewer Ok and you believe it because a director and screenplay writer said so?? Because their research consisted of interviewing Fidel??? My mother was a political prisoner...enough said!!!
@thebachars No no you misunderstood me, I ment to say that it was sick that they would put that in the movie when Che said : ''judicial evidence are an archaic bourgeois detail''. I was agreeing with you, what soderberg did with his moie is sick. I know what a monster Che was. I'm on ur side.
@thebachars it's funny when you look at cuba and venezuela there are parallels, most of the people who oppose them on bullshit ground are usually part of the used to be wealthy member of that society. what about you bachars?
Im from the U.K and I can say I would stand by Cuba. The U.S.A are the real enemies here. I want revolution here and Yes! I do not like what happened on 9/11 but you really did have it coming!
I have yet to find a single credible source pointing to a case where Che executed "an innocent". Those persons executed by Guevara or on his orders were condemned for the usual crimes punishable by death at times of war or in its aftermath: desertion, treason or crimes such as rape, torture or murder. - Jon Lee Anderson author of the 814 page most relevant biography Che Guevara a revolutionary life
@guyperson05 True that, one of the supposed stories is by a guy named Pierre San Martin, yet no one else has ever verified the story, and when googled, the exact same text comes up, it is as if there is no record besides some bullshit biography.
Seems funny that americans compare Che to Hitler when United States are THE most paranoid and hated country in the world... Take some time to look at your own presidents throughout the years... Atomic bombings over civilian people? Intervention in the Vietnam war? Iraq? Nobody likes an imperialist.
Yes, the US Government is guilty of a lot of horrible things. I oppose the violent actions of Bush, Obama, Bush Sr, Reagan, Nixon, etc. for the same reasons I oppose Che, Stalin, Mao, hitler etc. Imperialism, corporatism, war, statism, and all justifications for violence against innocent people are horrible awful things that any and all rational human being need oppose and stop making excuses for.
@Fredde1987karlsson...... There is no point in defending Che and exposing the United States evils throughout history. These people are the pawns of satan, and will not be convinced no matter how eloquently one defends Che and his ideals, or how precise you expose the United States treatment of Latin American nations. Some are stubborn, but most are inherintly evil and are only looking out for their greedy interest.
@Fredde1987karlsson You are correct! This is the definition of an imperialist ...Imperialism, as defined by The Dictionary of Human Geography, is "the creation and maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination." Ah yea that is Fidel all right!
@thebachars this is between states, fidel is not living in luxury either. the worse someone could find was a picture of castro and a bottle of wine next to him. the wine was not a 2000$ bottle either. even if it was, he could be receiving gifts from people outside his country like pierre-elliot trudeau from canada who was a friend of his. a communist leader does not have to give out everything he receives as gift because he is a communist leader, this is folly.
@Fredde1987karlsson people are hating americans less and canadians more now because we voted in Obama...the whole world loves Obama, so now its all good. Have you ever seen Canadians on vacation in acapulco? its like an experiment in group stupidity.
@Fredde1987karlsson yeah, no one likes the united states that's why our bothers, sisters and, friends are dying on the border every day just to get to U.S. it's not perfect nothing ever is, but it's a place of opportunity for those who don't have it...
@Fredde1987karlsson Dear dumb ass if we were that bad then why not take over the world after WW2 most of europe was destroyed we had the only nukes. Why didn't we take over?
@Fredde1987karlsson What kind of logic is this? So because my government has and still do commit terrible acts my opinion is worthless? I think Che was a ruthless human being in the same way I think Nixon or Cheney were a ruthless human being. All did terrible acts regardless of their political ideologies. Using the "WELL YOUR AMERICAN" counter is not a valid argument and its down right ignorant. It would be the same as accusing all Germans of being Nazis half a century ago.
@Kagemusha08 LOL you put che on the same level as american presidents AND accuse others of ignorance? i have yet to meet one person that has done their own research and their own readings and still believe the "murderer" argument that is literally ONLY present in countries like united states and Britain. the same countries that were direct enemies with his ever so valid and important movement. the only countries that stood to lose money and investments as a direct result of che guevara. FOOL.
@Kagemusha08 I am cuban, i have been to Bolivia where he died and I have been at his tomb in Santa Clara. Right or wrong, Che dies doing what he believed in. Cheney or Nixon CANT be compared to him. Did any of them went themselves to risk their neck anywhere?
Right or wrong, Ernesto backed his ideals with actions and paid the price. He could have stayed in Cuba like all the others and lived a great life as another Revolution god.
if you want to start with "imperialism" you should mention Fidel sending thousands of Cuban troops to back up the Ethiopian Marxist regime that killed over 500,000 people including thousands of children. No one likes a retard.
,,Seid vor allem immer fähig, jede Ungerechtigkeit gegen jeden Menschen an jedem Ort der Welt im Innersten zu fühlen. Das ist die schönste Eigenschaft eines Revolutionärs." E. Guevara
Che was simple a man who stood for something, you dont see that anymore...they put this label on him for being a murderer, simply to destroy his image so people wont realize that Che was a man who wanted to stop the Bloodsuckers(America) from taking his peoples resoursces, becuz America is scared that another Latino is goin to try to do the same thing...
Adolf was simple a man who stood for something, you dont see that anymore...they put this label on him for being a murderer, simply to destroy his image so people wont realize that Adolf was a man who wanted to stop the Bloodsuckers(Britain) from taking his peoples resoursces, becuz Britain is scared that another Nazi goin to try to do the same thing.
MY DOG REFUSES TO DATE YOU BECAUSE YOUR'E NOT INTELLIGENT ENOUGH
@defiant1125 Che was the real bloodsucker and he loved it!! Loved the blood on his hands! He not only came from money but he loved to rub elbows with the social elite at every turn. Taking peoples resources....? LOL Who's mansion did he live in while in Cuba a confiscated mansion. Wow what happened to the living poor routine! You people crack me up.
yes, che was a murderer, he murdered traitors and batista's henchmen. he has been dead for 43 years, yet he still provokes intense debate. is it che they fear or what he stood for. i ask his enemies this: in which war did not kill or be killed?
Che might be called a revolutionist, then on that level Hitler and Lenin could be on the same page. He may have had some good ideas and that is up to be debated upon, but his actions outweight his idealogy. Killing people for your ideas still makes you a murderer...
Lol, I hate socially indoctrinated lefties who think their oversimplified comparisons of George Bush and Che Guevara or any other unabashed murderer is some kind of valid argument. This was not a debate, this was idiots being idiots and Soderbergh sighing along the way.
It looks as though we are having trouble separating Castro and Guevara. It's a shame. Like confusing Chanel parfum with Marliyn Monroe. While it becomes difficult to remain ideologically pure when discussing uprising, like the yippies and pseudo intellectuals simply scratching the surface of terra firma- it is good to be reminded of the mileage of ideas and boldness. Guevara was without a doubt one of the more fascinating men in history with a complex and intriguing history.
Among the individuals that Che Guevara hated the most, were all the intellectuals artists and other professionals and the rich stupid bourgeois, and potheads as Soderbergh, could not have had many opportunities to survive Che, (the murderer) Guevara in Cuba in those early days of the Communist Revolution.
Che Guevara after the triumph of the Cuban revolution and for more that tree years after, and while acting as head executioner in Cuba, he put to dead many innocent people just because they had a different political opinion and didn't like Communism and had the courage to say it.
Che murder at the Wall (Paredon) many hundreds of good Cubans under false pretenses and accusations, and send many other thousands to his newly constructed concentration camps, the (UMAP).
Che executed and imprison the "undesirables", because he wanted to cleanse the Cuban society of "Worms, Bourgeois, Gays and the Weak and Antisocial", to make way for the New Glorious "Cuban Revolution" and.... "The New Man of the Future"
@MataChess Fail. I don't understand how you people can be so contradictory. Che was a revolutionary. To call him a murderer is to call George Washington a murderer. Washington suppressed his own army for pete's sake and brought down rebellions within the new government. Get real. Che fought a brutal dictatorship.
@TheProgressistViewer che shot a man of his army who raped a teenager. a man who could have been a soldier with a gun. che shooting a 12 year old? what kind of bullshit is that. any proof or source?
@TheProgressistViewer umberto fontova is the biggest lieing moron on earth. he claims fidel castro owns 100% of cuban economy. he also claim the cuban revolution might have something to do with the nazi since they use the color,red black and white. he is an asshole who made his money on senselessly bashing cuba and the latin american socialist. glenn beck uses him as a source.
if u gonna call CHE a murderer than call everyone else who is involve with the war going on right now murderers too, cuz like it or not it the same shit. No matter what u guys think about Che u got to learn to respect the people who look at him as an idol, just like some americans look at Bush as a good president when others look at him as a murderer too, i bet people from Iraq n those countries hate him too, cuz for us we see that they are fighting a battle, but innocent people die there too.
CHE battled 3 different U.$.-backed dictators (Batista, Mobutu, Barrientos) on 3 continents (N America, Africa, S America) ... to liberate humanity. He is the epitome of bravery, fearlessness, and courage.
In the last battle, it took 1,800 rangers to defeat Che's group of 21 men.
Ronald Reagan's right-wing Contra Death squads slaughtered 70,000 in El Salvador, 100,000 in Guatemala, and 30,000 in Nicaragua. Yet teabagging morons worship the diaper wearing war criminal.
Che understood U$ imperialism - he called them out on their pillaging of the 3rd world. Che bravely stood before the U.N. and said what all the underdeveloped nations were afraid to say ...
Che was not only a fearless icon - but a prophet who warned us all about the $oul -$tealing greed of global capitali$m.
Che was a murderer, plain and simple. Disgusting that ANYONE would worship him...true ignorance...so sad
Like saying lenin was this great liberator of monarchy, and brought this fabulous utopian system communism....ya thats worked out great everywhere its been implemented..what a joke....this poor world we live in...with so called 'thinkers" like you, more like utube historians..how many utube shorts have u watched to be such a che expert.,...im just amazed with ur comment, so eloquent
@infinitemika Disgusting that people would disagree with your statement, even Soderbergh agrees he was a murderer. His argument that Che was killed the way he killed does not make his actions any less horrible. He was killed by a CIA operative after plotting terrorist attacks on NYC.
So even IF Che Guevara is a murder, etc etc, why does that mean a movie shouldn't be made about him? I don't get your logic. He's a historical figure.
I'm Scottish, William Wallace is considered by many as a rapist and a murderer, a terrorists, an evil man. There wasn't such an uproar about Braveheart. Why not?
Yes this is all true but nobody made Hitler or Holocaust look good. I dont know if you saw the movie or not but it made Che look like a saint. William Wallaces intentions have been hotly contested and his exploits have never been seperated from fact or fiction. We dont hate Kennedy because he was a politician we hate him because he got away with murder and never stopped trying to steal Americans money. Nothings wrong with Darwin, and Marx didnt know his ass from a hole in the ground.
Its not that we hate politicians, scientists, and writers. Sometimes we hate what they stand for. Hitler was a politician, he employed scientists to execute Jews, and he wrote Mein Kampf. Do you not hate him for that?
What the hell is wrong with Ted Kennedy, Darwin and Marx? You hate a Politician, a Scientist and a writer? Do you like anyone? Is everyone evil except you doll? Have you ever read Marx? At all? Or Darwin for that matter? I doubt it. Your rhetoric is pathetic.
"You can't compare a nation full of over 300 million people to one man. Nations change, and are not an individual."
Yes...you can. Would you compare Che to Batista? Was the Cuban nation before Che as bad as him? Or was he between a rock and a hard place and did something about it. Maybe you don't agree with his methods, but alot of poor Cubans did. I'm not a poor Cuban, so I don't really get a say.
because Pol Pot killed millions. che killed thousands....and you know what...i don't know why and who he killed. but i know US BACKED PLENTY OF DICTATORS THAT KILLED SOO MUCH MORE INCLUDING OUR MARINES BACKING THEM BEFORE CHE CAME INTO PLAY
Pride in your own ideals gives the opportunity to embrace ignorance concerning conflicting ideals. Those who change the world consider all; subtract preconceptions and assumptions, and truly seek the best way to promote basic values of safety, equality, love, community, and country. The reason so few exist and are hated is the fact that the masses refuse consideration, and want nothing more than the blood of all who do or disagree
I scroll and all I see is mindless rambling. Hating in all directions; regardless of who you think is right and how much better you think your ideals are, resorting to hate and verbal abuse makes you all the same.
people who learn to sacrifice and serve the people change things and make things better. Democracy or Socialism - if the leaders are brilliant the country will be fine. If the leaders are wastes of space, both will fail.
read history che was a stupid monkey that castro used and then got rid off him sending him to a certain death and yes he was a mass murderer he killed more people than Hitler he was responsible for the creation of many concentration camps for people that listen to rock music like Beatles
he was one of the sickest disgusting stupid peaces of shit that walked on hearth
I would dearly like to know where you get your information from. Che was neither stupid nor a monkey of Castros.
Yes he did cause thousands of deaths, but putting him in the same bracket as Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot, is grossly absurd. Batista, in every year of his rule killed more Cubans than Che did in his entire life.
To my American friends, I would say, stop reading the government propaganda. Che wasnt a mass murdered, he was a rank amateur in that respect.
@jumpfer he killed much more people than Hitler remember that hitler ordered murder Che committed murder che was a murderer he killed, hitler was a dictator he ordered it from ebay lol
I am completely stunned at Hollywood's embracing of all things backward and evil. This Che bastard was a murderer, a loonatic and a inhumane animal. How could people embrace this criminal? The liberal youth of this country will someday hand over the reigns of our democracy to socialist madmen and do so willfully. Che is standing next to Hitler, Mao, Stalin. Darwin, Lenin, Marx, Pol pot and Ted Kennedy in the lake of fire.
Che was just as much a murderer as patrick Henry was, and George Washington...
Misterdeeh3000 3 weeks ago
@ATXgooner Che was not a racist or else he wouldn't have had his closest companion in Cuba be black, if not he would not have fought for the Congo, if not he would not have spoken out against the brutality of the USA against their own women and children because they where black, If not he wouldn't have praised Malcolm x , stop this divide and conquer tactic please.
Misterdeeh3000 3 weeks ago
@cooltoye actually Che killed prisoners of war, rapists and murderers, it's simply calling a state that has the death penalty a Murderer it's silly and please do people actually buy that story of japan? Japan had long surrendered . Not only that but the USA wasn't neutral they where providing for both sides and wanted to join to be part of thevictory
Misterdeeh3000 3 weeks ago
@ mcproductions91
America wished to remain neutral in WWII. The Japanese attacked Perl Harbor, after pretending to want peace. Unlike the backstabbing Japanese, we gave them a warning to surrender, we told them we had a weapon that could end the war. They refused surrender and we bombed one of their most industrialized cities, which is attacking part of the war machine. We gave them another chance to surrender, they refused, so we bombed again, only than did they surrender.
cooltoye 1 month ago
@ giantrobotzodd, if che was a murderder, wat do u call the USA who killed over 20,000 people over nine years for no reason in iraq using tax money from the people. Che had a real reason, USA had a false reason. CHE IS A FREEDOM FIGHTER!!
consiceDJ 2 months ago
every government has blood on their hands
jimmy59ca2001 3 months ago
Che was a mass murderer i don't see how anyone can look up to him
GiantRobotZodd 5 months ago
che was not a racist. if he was, why would he try to do a revolution in congo?
alanya1996 5 months ago
@alanya1996 I'm sorry, but this question is as rhetorical as it is ignorant. Go and actually READ about Che Guevara's exploits in Congo, and then read his opinion on the Congolese after it was over.
ATXGooner 2 months ago
The guy at the end has a good point, the US has killed millions of innocent people including children, in Iraq and no one really cares. Yet Che is a monster. Remember tho with this film, it is presenting a revolution, about the sorts of people who make change in this world, ruthless violence, might is right. There are more violent warlords than Gandhis out there, including Che and our gov.
dickhalloran 5 months ago
The old "His actions were necessary" routine: Yes, well so-so did kill 4000 people, rape their children, tortured a baby to death, never had any sex that wasn't him raping someone and wore a necklace made of eyeballs, but from my point of view...he was doing it for poor people.
AmericanBadass44 6 months ago
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"I have yet to find a single credible source pointing to a case where Che executed 'an innocent'. Those persons executed by Guevara or on his orders were condemned for the usual crimes punishable by death at times of war or in its aftermath: desertion, treason or crimes such as rape, torture or murder. I should add that my research spanned five years, and included anti-Castro Cubans among the Cuban-American exile community in Miami and elsewhere."
— Jon Lee Anderson
4Barbudos 7 months ago
"Che’s life is an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom, we will always honor his memory." — Nelson Mandela
"Che is not only an intellectual, he was the most complete human being of our time, our eras most perfect man." — Jean Paul Sartre
CHE:
- Worked in a Leper colony and treated lepers (as seen in the excellent film ‘The Motorcycle Diaries’)
- Removed the Mafia and dictatorship of Batista from Cuba which had killed 20,000 Cubans and tortured thousands more
4Barbudos 8 months ago
@4Barbudos Absolutely right.
He also murdered people. How do we reconcile that?
masterhalco 7 months ago
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Che’s radicalism was spawned from living in Guatemala during the 1953 overthrow of Jacobo Arbenz by the CIA at the behest of the United Fruit Company (those lovely capitalists who liked to kill brown Central Americans so Americans could have cheap bananas).
Che saw the brutality of U$ Imperialism up close, and gave his life in Bolivia to defeat it. Che fought 3 U.S.-backed dictators during his life (Batista, Mobutu, Barrientos).
History may not ever see such a brave man again. VIVA CHE!!
4Barbudos 6 months ago
*Che Guevara would've took one look at Nelson Mandela and hated him because he was black.
*Who the fuck is Jean Paul Satre?
*A Leper colony you say? OH WOW! MY, MY, MY!
*He replaced one dictatorship with another. Improvement? No
AmericanBadass44 6 months ago
@4Barbudos
Hitler did a lot of "good" for Germany? Does that make it for the millions that suffered because of him?
Acroix707 6 months ago
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Che’s “CRIMES” were:
~ Stopping American companies from owning 70 % of the arable land in Cuba
~ Teaching peasants to read, by bringing the Cuban literacy rate from 60 to 97 %
~ Having the 200 or so War Criminals who killed 20,000 Cubans for Batista shot against a wall
~ Fighting white mercenaries in the African Congo with an all black army
~ Speaking out against US and eventually USSR Imperialism while demanding that the poor of the world be allowed to live a life of dignity
4Barbudos 8 months ago
In Argentina, they call Guevara "Ernie the Pig"
AmericanBadass44 8 months ago
@DINOBRAV69
There is a big f#cking difference between taking over a country and just flat out murdering people with different ideals.
DukeofUSA 8 months ago
Latinaomericans living in the United States that sucks the dick of capitalism, sucks
lolitargentina 8 months ago
Soderbergh gets on his knee's and bows to tyranny.
qwertypoiu4321 9 months ago
hahaha suck it you stupid liberal. thank god che is dead.
like50asians 9 months ago
Murderer? No shit genius. How do you take over a country without killing anyone?
DINOBRAV69 9 months ago
What i know about Che Guevara is what several of my relatives experienced when they were exiled from their country for being doctors and lawyers. That is that Che Guevara was a murderous communist zealot, who wanted to obliterate any traces of entrepreneurship and development. So yeah i am gonna take the word of one of my uncles who spent 20 years in political prison in Cuba for committing the crime of owning a tobacco plantation then the word of some Hollywood know it all snob.
jstealth89 9 months ago
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If Che were still alive today he would be ashamed of Cuba.
CommunistAngel 10 months ago
Soderbergh did a fantastic job at explaining the thought process that went into presenting this particular film the way he did. It's a cinematic masterpiece what he did.
The Red-One camera he used for this made the film look absolutely badass
as well.
Anthony1Leone 10 months ago
A lot of people debating what Soderbergh says aren't really getting what he's saying (partially because he's not explaining himself very concisely or well). In short, he wasn't interested in judging Che. He was interesting in making a flick about the facts of his revolution and throwing it up on screen for the audience to judge.
tremontirocks 10 months ago
If we use Soderbergh analysis, we can conclude that Hitler had a cause and believed in it. The German people stood behind him all the way. Yes he was ruthless hard ass with a cause. Now Hitler's dilema lasted from 1932 to 1945. Cuba's dilema from Fidel and Che lasted from 1959 to present. Hitler was responsible for the death of 50 million people. Fidel and Che were responsible for how many? Che's legacy still lives in Cuba and followed by "comunist countries" around the world. Would he be proud?
sailor123ize 10 months ago
@sailor123ize well, soderbergh explained well why make a movie about che, not why he was a good person. many movies have been made about hitler, and no one gives a fuck. your'e not very good at logic are you? how can you compare a revolutionary war that brought healthcare and education to a population that would be like haiti nowadays, to a complete genocide fueled by rascism. hitler practiced eugenics. he used propaganda. the only similarity shared between them is that they threatened US profit
violentaardvark 10 months ago
Anyone can scream and yell rhetoric, but few can make an artistic piece that portrays, as accurately as possible, the life of someone who did more than just scream and yell rhetoric. It's nice to see that they film provoked a discussion at least.
sowhatnowhere 11 months ago
point taken.. the US has serious issues. The important thing is to pay attention to the fact that all have caused a huge amount of suffering and injustice. study all the mistakes, and try to properly avoid repeating those mistakes. But rating the horrible atrocities is extremely disrepctful to the lost souls and their families. I know this because I feel this pain as a family member.
MrMikep555 1 year ago
@MrMikep555 no country is perfect. this is by no means of the injustices brought though. However what this nation truly stands for is good( all be it the gov is to blame) And if i read you correctly it is terrible to point at the horrors of the past and morph them for ones own agenda. I personally am amused be the stupidity of some of these people i mean Washington fought tyranny but he didn't slaughter people like che did. che was a coward and i'm disgusted at todays stupid youth's admiration
ANDY82ize 1 year ago
@ANDY82ize i get where your coming from with your point, but no one is perfect, now you may not like Che but he died honourably fighting for what he believed even when held captive by those who hated him, the real reason people idolize che is not because of his actions but because of his convictions and what he stood for, I personnally admire Che and I don't appriciate being called "stupid youth" solely because of something that i have researched and have come to my own conclusion about
SJBarley 11 months ago
Che sat a desk and signed death warrants as dissdents were executed . the united states never came close to that. Neither did G. Washington, he fought in battle, Che was a pussy, he talked a lot and followed with little action. the revolution was primarily desided upon politics.
MrMikep555 1 year ago
You can't have an intelligent discussion on Cuba or Che in the U.S., well that pretty much goes for any historical subject, even the U.S.'s own damn history LOL.
AndrewMann552 1 year ago
The point Soderbergh was trying to make, but didn't want to anger the crowd by saying it so bluntly, is that whether Che Guevara is a murderer or not, depends on ones political views. For a Marxist, Che Guevara was a hero and every act he did was both justified and necessary to achieve in his view, the liberation of mankind.
TheRebelTV 1 year ago
So for a Neo Nazi Hitler was a good man, for a communist Stalin, Mao, Castro, Che have been excellent human beings, for a Muslim Ayatola Komeini was a heroe. What a lousy world is this? Can anyone be more sensible than that?
antfreire 1 year ago
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yah who wants communism anyway?choose capitalism instead!rape other countries,feed on them and place propaganda in your peoples heads today!ur anti global peace?choose capitalism and make wars for money and oil today!anti freedom?choose capitalism and make a false democracy ruled by others(president being a panw)today?who cares about starving children of africa anyway?we value green papers more than life and morals!Capitalism makin sin business
lolwut2011 1 year ago
Che did nothing he died before bringing in any economic ideals. Castro his a billionaire, he gets the Cubans to work for him as slaves, they are poor and he is rich.
That is socialism.
warriorprince1010 1 year ago
@warriorprince1010 if u think thats socialism ur a jackass(americunt)listen to the song immagine if u want to know what socialism or communism is
lolwut2011 1 year ago
@lolwut2011 Imagine is a song, it has no mention of state ownership so it is not socialism. Socialism is state ownership and state planned economies. Capitalism is people owning and people planning.
warriorprince1010 1 year ago
Imperalism is basically the same thing only the leaders are more of cowards I'd like to see Bush with a gun
FilmStarz3 1 year ago
The Bush admin AND Cuba's communist government are demented motherfuckers, the only difference being where they lie on the political spectrum Che apologists: the new holocaust deniers
theocean1973 1 year ago
god, they have no fucking respect.
shitIMGOINGPOSTAL 1 year ago
VIVA CHE!!!
DjHyperblaze 1 year ago
Gotta love how people call Che a mass murderer and terrorist (he was both of these things, but also much more), are amongst the same people to defend the necessity of firebombing and nuking cities off the face of the Earth by the US in WWII. They rail against one person who used "the end justifies the means" mentality, but whitewash another. Were the methods used by Che justifiable? I'm not sure, but Americans need to seriously step out of their nationalism and view the world differently.
IneptTroopr 1 year ago 5
@IneptTroopr
are you really comparing bombing a Japan in WWII, with Che killing his own people without trial?
cooltoye 2 months ago
@IneptTroopr Spot on. Great comment.
TomCFC8 2 weeks ago
@IneptTroopr Spot on. Great comment.
TomCFC8 2 weeks ago
people are fucking stupid. had they lived in cuba during this bullshit revolution, they would've been on a raft headed to the US so fast it would make their heads spin.
omgfaglolz 1 year ago
If Che was so bad, how bad was G.W. Bush??
CeboAmebo 1 year ago
Whether you agree with blowing away crying kids or not, Che was a "warrior". ...Doesn't have the same ring to it, does it? And what kind of a "warrior" was he, you whimpering media geek? He was a warrior who fought to deny the human spirit, and private, personal dreams. He fought for the absolute state. He fought to suppress art, music, and free speech. He fought to eliminate the individual, and the legal protection of the individual. Some "warrior", some "hardass".
FreedomJury 1 year ago
I saw a teenager wearing the Che shirt here in Thailand. Funny, because Che put his .45 to the heads of teenage kids who were hired by Battista to carry rifles. When they readily surrendered, Che personally blew their brains out as they whimpered and begged for their lives. No jury trial. With hordes of prisoners screaming from the prison windows that they were just children. Pretty cool! You commies are so hip-cool! Stupid, anti-intellectual thugs. Some "hardass"
FreedomJury 1 year ago
Some of the audience sounded like they wanted to kick his ass lol. Interesting perspective.
ahigheztarget 1 year ago
Che was... simply put.... a terrorist. And a freedom fighter. Whichever one you want.
degree7 1 year ago
I don't know why everyone seems to be comparing Che to Americans. In the eyes of humanity as a whole the man was a cruel, vicious murderer. You can point out all the mistakes that America has made and it doesn't make his crimes any less heinous. Ghandi and Martin Luther King managed to start a revolution without firing a single weapon.
By the way I don't support the wars in the middle east, so you can save your comparisons to those wars for someone else.
johnnyhstat 1 year ago
@kidmayhem El Nuevo Herald is the press of Miami mafia, c'mon!!
benjlm 1 year ago
@kidmayhem there is no source....its all bullshit.
getyoasshome 1 year ago
@kidmayhem Well try starting with his own diary where he talks about killing peasants and then stealing their possessions. A man Pierre San Martin describes the account of the murder of the 14yr old in a newspaper the El Nuevo Herald. You can read the accounts also in Che Guevara: A Biography Daniel James.
Read the accounts of Javier Arzuaga a chaplin in the Cuban prison where tribunals were held, Or José Vilasuso a lawyer who worked under Che
Eastsideweezy 1 year ago
@kidmayhem. He didn't just execute people who raped tortured and murdered. He murdered peasants, who didn't want to follow him. People who he suspected of treason? Oh and he shot a 14yr old in the neck for trying to defend his father. Oh did I mention he hated black people and imprisoned homosexuals? I will assume you do know this and you are fine with it.
Eastsideweezy 1 year ago
@Eastsideweezy if CHE hated black people then why did he fight in the CONGO with black people? apparently you havent read enough.
getyoasshome 1 year ago
Some of those journalists embarassed themselves. They seem completely incapable of accepting the idea of a subjective viewpoint. Something one would deem fundamental to their profession.
B1ggu5 1 year ago
All You Cliche Guevaras Need To Get Real!!! Che Was A Murderer, if you don't think so, You Might Want to Read His Own Diaries.
5446mk 1 year ago
@5446mk a murderer is someone who kills for nothing...much like a serial killer...last i checked revolutions are bloody and like malcolm said "there is no bloodless revolution" a murderer is something like the U.S. military going to iraq a place they have no business being and killing women and children for profit. the massacre of gainir, pat tillman and the propaganda...thats a murderer....murderers dont have objectives.
getyoasshome 1 year ago
@getyoasshome "Hatred as an element of struggle; unbending hatred for the enemy, which pushes a human being beyond his
natural limitations, making him into an effective, violent, selective, and cold-blooded killing machine. This is
what our soldiers must become" … Executions Without Trials is Enough for Me, But Good Thing for Us That Che Took is Own Advise (Guerrilla Warfare) and Went To Bolivia
5446mk 1 year ago
"He was a muderer"
Typical brainwashed American comment, who probably gets his news from Fox.I'd be willing to bet alot of money that most people who accuse Che of murder probably havent read any UNBIASED books on him,or any books on him at all and are simply repeating what they learned from some conservative republican.Whatever happened to seeking knowledge yourself.
andres65080 1 year ago
"We are lucky to live here!" sums it up!
Che lovers everywere in western democracies should be swimmig to Cuba or catching a plane to North Korea and go see in first person the wonderfull social organizations that Che fougth for. Bon voyage!
joaosardinha 1 year ago
Plenty of brainwashed idiots in the audience. How stupid can you get? Get off your fat asses and read about Che, morons. Guess what, the rest of the world describes him in an entirely different light. Gee, I wonder why. Must be that "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" thing.
BMVlado 1 year ago
@BMVlado well in the U.S. you have to remember "we" have never lost a war, never had slaves, never lied, never killed, never falsely imprisoned and everyone who lives "here" has food, money,clean water, health care, 2 houses a boat and a gold fish....."americanism" at its best.
getyoasshome 1 year ago
why do republicans ruin everything?
tonyo7 1 year ago 7
@tonyo7 Why Che Guevara shoot a 12 year old?
AmericanBadass44 6 months ago
ignorant Americans El Che didn't believe in the socialist Cuba that Fidel builded , and what the f to that lady that yield go to Miami, Go to La Habana , El Che was a good guy he had good ideas that were betrayed by Fidel Castro because when fidel got the power The US being as soberness As they still are treated him like an idiot so he had to turn The Russians and converted Cuba in a Communist country,
rrrrrrrrreee 1 year ago
The passions of Che cannot be denied. Do great men do horrible things when your only hope is survival? Of course. Mao, however, is not a hero in the some light as Che. We, as Americans, have become spoiled become young children don't understand the meaning of strife or struggle. We need to reinforce concepts of community which extend beyond our borders. I love you all! ty...thepuppets.tv
thepuppetstv 1 year ago
Brave man to get up in front of a bunch of those biggot Americans, they are the biggest bunch of brain washed morons around, listen to they way they talk after what their own country has done for hundreds of years all about the globe there are none of them free of guilt bought by their sad countries actions, now and in the past.
Listen to them just sounds like at one Hitlers rallies.
This is why i have come to despise them all!, they want war let them have it!
cultofmao 1 year ago 2
@cultofmao ok, i can see the debate on che as revolutionary, and I support his vision, but you can't say these things and support Mao Z. That's laughable. Dont be sour we got Obama he is changing everything, so let's have a beer together and chill.
thepuppetstv 1 year ago
The leader is defined by what ideological stance one has. Che was a hero to those who believed in him. A mass murderer to others. No one ideology is right or wrong. There's only those who believe it's worth fighting for. Unfortunately, Che chose the typical "by any means possible". From an objective neutral stance, Che can only be defined as a murderer.
KineticFrenetic 1 year ago
Che Guevara was a true hero... It`s ironic that a north american who surely voted for Bush call him a murderer... guess some people never learn...
tavoakd 1 year ago
@TheLoveschach How do you define better off??? They are starving, prostituting themselves for basic needs. They aren't allowed to have different political views like you and I do right now!!! They hunger in their souls for freedom and food!! How does this make them better off. They can't run their own businesses or create their own opportunities because it is not allowed. They are not treated like human beings but more like lab mice.
thebachars 1 year ago
@thebachars how the hell are people in the united states allowing to be nazis and communist and not be spat upon or even attacked by the cops who look elsewhere, i sent you a prisoner of conscience list in the united states. if you can't accept that both country have political prisoner then you are full of shit.
crusader651 1 year ago
@crusader651 And there you have it....when you can't explain away the lack of human rights in Cuba you do what is easiest...point the finger at the US. I wasn't sitting here defending the US or discussing the US. It was Cuba's lack of a democracy and basic human rights we were talking about. Stick to the topic.
thebachars 1 year ago
@thebachars in comparison to what fucking country? are we suppose to care that cuba is not a perfect country? if so try to change the world or shut up. as for your mother, she can go fuck herself. why would a normal citizens know this type of horror. this is absolutly idiotic. she lived and breathed and lied. that's what she did.
crusader651 1 year ago
@crusader651 You dont care about Cuba and dont have to. You posted comments and I responded. You and every other idiot can call my mother a liar because you cant stand the truth. I don't have to resort to your type of vulgarity. She was there and you hate the fact that your little and I mean little made up idealistic dreams of Che and his kind are not real! They are EVIL!! I won't save the world but you will always be sadly ignorant. Now you can kiss my A#@
thebachars 1 year ago
@thebachars i care a fucking shitload about cuba. YOU don't care about cuba. what was your mother's ideology by the way? if she is not a former communist. then where the fuck was she protesting for human rights when the batista regime was there? i don't care about che. in fact i think he is far too idealized.
crusader651 1 year ago
@thebachars listen im not arguing with u all im saying is that there was a dictatorship in chile that was executed by agusto pinochet and both my parents were there and they told me horrible stories and then there are some of their friends that were also there at the time and think that what pinochet did was heroic and no matter how much people suffered in that era they still agree with what he did. ps. my father was in the army at the time the military took over
CheGuevaraNY 1 year ago
@thebachars ur never gonna know whos right ooo yea and u know how the USA always tries to save everyone they didn't this time because they were behind it all trying to get their greedy lil hands on the copper mines located in chile that produce millions of dollars in profit. one more thing fidel castro was against pinochet he was actually friends with the president that pinochet murdered contradictions happen im just saying
CheGuevaraNY 1 year ago
@TheLoveschach Look, i am not fighting you or anyone else. I just need you to see the truth.My family owned no land, neither did the hundreds of other friends and family we know. It is horrible there. My aunt goes there to visit once a yr. conditions are deplorable. Better than Haiti sure! But not good or even mediocre by any stretch.They cant decide anything for themselves without being turned in to police.It is the truth, I cry as i sit here and tell you.
thebachars 1 year ago
@TheLoveschach Never said that. However, the people didn't ask for a communistic dictatorship either. Why didn't Castro hold free elections like he promised the people from the start? Why does he only allow controlled TV Radio etc.? Why do the people risk their lives on the sea with shark infested water to get away? Oh I suppose thats the US's fault too. Not the fault of an oppressive, dominating, dictatorship gone very wrong!!! Just look at the people who have come here since then...
thebachars 1 year ago
Truth is that the Che was a murderer and executioner. NO he did not execute because of typical war crimes, he slaughtered innocent men and and young boys who resisted the Castro evil that was being forced upon them. Big surprise that it is not documented in movies. In this loser liberal left wing society. His was to Castro what Hitler's henchmen were to him. Poor souls who allow themselves to be brainwashed by hollywood bable. I am Cuban and know first hand of what that bastard did.
thebachars 1 year ago
@thebachars :O you were there?
crusader651 1 year ago
@crusader651 No I was not there however my mother and father who were NOT part of the social elite as you inferred were there!! My mother was a political prisoner. I think she may have a first hand account of the real events not the fabricated undocumented Hollywood liberal tale.
Its funny the first one's sent to concentration camps set up by Che were those hippie, liberal, left wing, non conformists youth!!! LOL and those are the ones who have elevated him to hero status here in the US.
thebachars 1 year ago
@thebachars a political prisoner for what? did she receive funding from the united states in order to fund her political activities? oh and if you want to bitch about cuban political prisoners how can you respond to prisonactivist. org? i will send you the link in pm.
crusader651 1 year ago
@crusader651 No, she was a twenty three yr old girl who worked in a fabric shop and she and her co workers were picked up in the systematic round up of suspicious people against the Revolution. For two months they tormented them hounded them, terrorized them demanding information. Threatening death if they opposed the revolution. One girl (pregnant) was taken for questioning from the group and never came back or ever seen again. That is justified???
thebachars 1 year ago
@thebachars source? what you don't have none except humberto fontova.
crusader651 1 year ago
@crusader651 I am giving you first hand information from my mother who was in one of those make shift prisons for two months. I can't get a more first hand source than that. I am not talking about strangers or people that I have never met. Like you who have only read books. My mother lived and breathed it. Why can't you see that?
thebachars 1 year ago
@thebachars I know right, and there is actually a part in the movie were he says : '' don't kill them, ake them in has prisonners of war, they have a right to a trial'' How sick is that?
TheProgressistViewer 1 year ago
@TheProgressistViewer Ok and you believe it because a director and screenplay writer said so?? Because their research consisted of interviewing Fidel??? My mother was a political prisoner...enough said!!!
thebachars 1 year ago
@thebachars No no you misunderstood me, I ment to say that it was sick that they would put that in the movie when Che said : ''judicial evidence are an archaic bourgeois detail''. I was agreeing with you, what soderberg did with his moie is sick. I know what a monster Che was. I'm on ur side.
TheProgressistViewer 1 year ago
@TheProgressistViewer you mean like guantanamo? why the fuck should a man during a war follow peacetime legislation? this has never happened.
crusader651 1 year ago
@TheProgressistViewer My apologies. Finally someone who isn't blind! Thank you for the breath of fresh air! :)
thebachars 1 year ago
@thebachars it's funny when you look at cuba and venezuela there are parallels, most of the people who oppose them on bullshit ground are usually part of the used to be wealthy member of that society. what about you bachars?
crusader651 1 year ago
Im from the U.K and I can say I would stand by Cuba. The U.S.A are the real enemies here. I want revolution here and Yes! I do not like what happened on 9/11 but you really did have it coming!
santefering 1 year ago
I have yet to find a single credible source pointing to a case where Che executed "an innocent". Those persons executed by Guevara or on his orders were condemned for the usual crimes punishable by death at times of war or in its aftermath: desertion, treason or crimes such as rape, torture or murder. - Jon Lee Anderson author of the 814 page most relevant biography Che Guevara a revolutionary life
guyperson05 1 year ago
@guyperson05 True that, one of the supposed stories is by a guy named Pierre San Martin, yet no one else has ever verified the story, and when googled, the exact same text comes up, it is as if there is no record besides some bullshit biography.
HearingEveryRhyme 1 year ago
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guyperson05 1 year ago
And Che execution was also necessary...................you reap what you sow
udiescummy 1 year ago
that guy is very ignorant
Squweesh 1 year ago
Seems funny that americans compare Che to Hitler when United States are THE most paranoid and hated country in the world... Take some time to look at your own presidents throughout the years... Atomic bombings over civilian people? Intervention in the Vietnam war? Iraq? Nobody likes an imperialist.
Fredde1987karlsson 1 year ago 40
@Fredde1987karlsson
Yes, the US Government is guilty of a lot of horrible things. I oppose the violent actions of Bush, Obama, Bush Sr, Reagan, Nixon, etc. for the same reasons I oppose Che, Stalin, Mao, hitler etc. Imperialism, corporatism, war, statism, and all justifications for violence against innocent people are horrible awful things that any and all rational human being need oppose and stop making excuses for.
TheCapitalistdog 1 year ago 2
@Fredde1987karlsson...... There is no point in defending Che and exposing the United States evils throughout history. These people are the pawns of satan, and will not be convinced no matter how eloquently one defends Che and his ideals, or how precise you expose the United States treatment of Latin American nations. Some are stubborn, but most are inherintly evil and are only looking out for their greedy interest.
killuminati43 1 year ago
@Fredde1987karlsson You are correct! This is the definition of an imperialist ...Imperialism, as defined by The Dictionary of Human Geography, is "the creation and maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination." Ah yea that is Fidel all right!
thebachars 1 year ago
@thebachars this is between states, fidel is not living in luxury either. the worse someone could find was a picture of castro and a bottle of wine next to him. the wine was not a 2000$ bottle either. even if it was, he could be receiving gifts from people outside his country like pierre-elliot trudeau from canada who was a friend of his. a communist leader does not have to give out everything he receives as gift because he is a communist leader, this is folly.
crusader651 1 year ago
@Fredde1987karlsson people are hating americans less and canadians more now because we voted in Obama...the whole world loves Obama, so now its all good. Have you ever seen Canadians on vacation in acapulco? its like an experiment in group stupidity.
thepuppetstv 1 year ago
@Fredde1987karlsson yeah, no one likes the united states that's why our bothers, sisters and, friends are dying on the border every day just to get to U.S. it's not perfect nothing ever is, but it's a place of opportunity for those who don't have it...
elmt23 1 year ago
@Fredde1987karlsson Dear dumb ass if we were that bad then why not take over the world after WW2 most of europe was destroyed we had the only nukes. Why didn't we take over?
jsh78mang 1 year ago
@Fredde1987karlsson Fuck Off...asshole.....
MsPenelopeCruz 1 year ago
@Fredde1987karlsson What kind of logic is this? So because my government has and still do commit terrible acts my opinion is worthless? I think Che was a ruthless human being in the same way I think Nixon or Cheney were a ruthless human being. All did terrible acts regardless of their political ideologies. Using the "WELL YOUR AMERICAN" counter is not a valid argument and its down right ignorant. It would be the same as accusing all Germans of being Nazis half a century ago.
Kagemusha08 1 year ago 4
@Kagemusha08 LOL you put che on the same level as american presidents AND accuse others of ignorance? i have yet to meet one person that has done their own research and their own readings and still believe the "murderer" argument that is literally ONLY present in countries like united states and Britain. the same countries that were direct enemies with his ever so valid and important movement. the only countries that stood to lose money and investments as a direct result of che guevara. FOOL.
violentaardvark 10 months ago
@Kagemusha08 I am cuban, i have been to Bolivia where he died and I have been at his tomb in Santa Clara. Right or wrong, Che dies doing what he believed in. Cheney or Nixon CANT be compared to him. Did any of them went themselves to risk their neck anywhere?
Right or wrong, Ernesto backed his ideals with actions and paid the price. He could have stayed in Cuba like all the others and lived a great life as another Revolution god.
francovaldes 1 month ago
@Fredde1987karlsson
if you want to start with "imperialism" you should mention Fidel sending thousands of Cuban troops to back up the Ethiopian Marxist regime that killed over 500,000 people including thousands of children. No one likes a retard.
fshjshshhs 1 year ago
@Fredde1987karlsson i'm american, and i agree.
shitIMGOINGPOSTAL 1 year ago
Soderbergh Q&A:
Is Adolf a Murderer? A revolutionary?
There's no arguing that conquering all of Europe and establishing a racist dictatorship over it is revolutionary.
Also, unless your'e a Nazi, you'd agree that the 20+ million casualties of Nazism are murder victims.
This discussion is stupid, revolutionary and murderer go hand in hand.
goldijun 1 year ago
,,Seid vor allem immer fähig, jede Ungerechtigkeit gegen jeden Menschen an jedem Ort der Welt im Innersten zu fühlen. Das ist die schönste Eigenschaft eines Revolutionärs." E. Guevara
NaStyLAW 1 year ago
He explains how he thinks Che justified his actions to himself, but he doesn't really explain why he thinks Che's actions were justified.
takky9298 1 year ago
Che was simple a man who stood for something, you dont see that anymore...they put this label on him for being a murderer, simply to destroy his image so people wont realize that Che was a man who wanted to stop the Bloodsuckers(America) from taking his peoples resoursces, becuz America is scared that another Latino is goin to try to do the same thing...
defiant1125 1 year ago 2
@defiant1125
Adolf was simple a man who stood for something, you dont see that anymore...they put this label on him for being a murderer, simply to destroy his image so people wont realize that Adolf was a man who wanted to stop the Bloodsuckers(Britain) from taking his peoples resoursces, becuz Britain is scared that another Nazi goin to try to do the same thing.
MY DOG REFUSES TO DATE YOU BECAUSE YOUR'E NOT INTELLIGENT ENOUGH
goldijun 1 year ago
@defiant1125 Che was the real bloodsucker and he loved it!! Loved the blood on his hands! He not only came from money but he loved to rub elbows with the social elite at every turn. Taking peoples resources....? LOL Who's mansion did he live in while in Cuba a confiscated mansion. Wow what happened to the living poor routine! You people crack me up.
thebachars 1 year ago
yes, che was a murderer, he murdered traitors and batista's henchmen. he has been dead for 43 years, yet he still provokes intense debate. is it che they fear or what he stood for. i ask his enemies this: in which war did not kill or be killed?
mazzin1962 1 year ago
Che might be called a revolutionist, then on that level Hitler and Lenin could be on the same page. He may have had some good ideas and that is up to be debated upon, but his actions outweight his idealogy. Killing people for your ideas still makes you a murderer...
Silky4ever 1 year ago 2
Lol, I hate socially indoctrinated lefties who think their oversimplified comparisons of George Bush and Che Guevara or any other unabashed murderer is some kind of valid argument. This was not a debate, this was idiots being idiots and Soderbergh sighing along the way.
TruthWielder 1 year ago
It looks as though we are having trouble separating Castro and Guevara. It's a shame. Like confusing Chanel parfum with Marliyn Monroe. While it becomes difficult to remain ideologically pure when discussing uprising, like the yippies and pseudo intellectuals simply scratching the surface of terra firma- it is good to be reminded of the mileage of ideas and boldness. Guevara was without a doubt one of the more fascinating men in history with a complex and intriguing history.
SparrowCharlesHarper 2 years ago
Among the individuals that Che Guevara hated the most, were all the intellectuals artists and other professionals and the rich stupid bourgeois, and potheads as Soderbergh, could not have had many opportunities to survive Che, (the murderer) Guevara in Cuba in those early days of the Communist Revolution.
MataChess 2 years ago 2
Che Guevara after the triumph of the Cuban revolution and for more that tree years after, and while acting as head executioner in Cuba, he put to dead many innocent people just because they had a different political opinion and didn't like Communism and had the courage to say it.
MataChess 2 years ago 2
Che murder at the Wall (Paredon) many hundreds of good Cubans under false pretenses and accusations, and send many other thousands to his newly constructed concentration camps, the (UMAP).
Che executed and imprison the "undesirables", because he wanted to cleanse the Cuban society of "Worms, Bourgeois, Gays and the Weak and Antisocial", to make way for the New Glorious "Cuban Revolution" and.... "The New Man of the Future"
MataChess 2 years ago 2
@MataChess Fail. I don't understand how you people can be so contradictory. Che was a revolutionary. To call him a murderer is to call George Washington a murderer. Washington suppressed his own army for pete's sake and brought down rebellions within the new government. Get real. Che fought a brutal dictatorship.
manoverde84 1 year ago 16
@manoverde84 Che shot a 12 year old boy in cold blood. Ur sick
TheProgressistViewer 1 year ago
@TheProgressistViewer che shot a man of his army who raped a teenager. a man who could have been a soldier with a gun. che shooting a 12 year old? what kind of bullshit is that. any proof or source?
crusader651 1 year ago
@crusader651 read ''exposing the real che guevara and the useful idiots who worship him'' by Umberto Fontova.
TheProgressistViewer 1 year ago
@TheProgressistViewer umberto fontova is the biggest lieing moron on earth. he claims fidel castro owns 100% of cuban economy. he also claim the cuban revolution might have something to do with the nazi since they use the color,red black and white. he is an asshole who made his money on senselessly bashing cuba and the latin american socialist. glenn beck uses him as a source.
crusader651 1 year ago
@TheProgressistViewer He did, read ''exposing the real che guevara and the useful idiots who worship him'' by Umberto Fontova.
TheProgressistViewer 1 year ago
@manoverde84 Che then put in place a stalinist regime that was far worse than the brutal dictatorship he fought.
TheProgressistViewer 1 year ago
@manoverde84 George Washington and Che Guevara were fucking murderers.
bomb6710 1 year ago
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@manoverde84 If you do not know the difference then you know nothing about George Washington.
MrDurcon 1 year ago
if u gonna call CHE a murderer than call everyone else who is involve with the war going on right now murderers too, cuz like it or not it the same shit. No matter what u guys think about Che u got to learn to respect the people who look at him as an idol, just like some americans look at Bush as a good president when others look at him as a murderer too, i bet people from Iraq n those countries hate him too, cuz for us we see that they are fighting a battle, but innocent people die there too.
bgurlRozRush3 2 years ago
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CHE battled 3 different U.$.-backed dictators (Batista, Mobutu, Barrientos) on 3 continents (N America, Africa, S America) ... to liberate humanity. He is the epitome of bravery, fearlessness, and courage.
In the last battle, it took 1,800 rangers to defeat Che's group of 21 men.
4Barbudos 2 years ago
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Ronald Reagan's right-wing Contra Death squads slaughtered 70,000 in El Salvador, 100,000 in Guatemala, and 30,000 in Nicaragua. Yet teabagging morons worship the diaper wearing war criminal.
CHE = HERO ... end of story.
4Barbudos 2 years ago
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Che understood U$ imperialism - he called them out on their pillaging of the 3rd world. Che bravely stood before the U.N. and said what all the underdeveloped nations were afraid to say ...
Che was not only a fearless icon - but a prophet who warned us all about the $oul -$tealing greed of global capitali$m.
Che's warnings are more relevant now than ever.
4Barbudos 2 years ago 4
Che was a murderer, plain and simple. Disgusting that ANYONE would worship him...true ignorance...so sad
Like saying lenin was this great liberator of monarchy, and brought this fabulous utopian system communism....ya thats worked out great everywhere its been implemented..what a joke....this poor world we live in...with so called 'thinkers" like you, more like utube historians..how many utube shorts have u watched to be such a che expert.,...im just amazed with ur comment, so eloquent
infinitemika 2 years ago
@infinitemika Disgusting that people would disagree with your statement, even Soderbergh agrees he was a murderer. His argument that Che was killed the way he killed does not make his actions any less horrible. He was killed by a CIA operative after plotting terrorist attacks on NYC.
selldeidre 1 year ago
ANNND if you're talking about a movie...
Movies HAVE been made about Hitler.
Movies HAVE been made about the Holocaust.
So even IF Che Guevara is a murder, etc etc, why does that mean a movie shouldn't be made about him? I don't get your logic. He's a historical figure.
I'm Scottish, William Wallace is considered by many as a rapist and a murderer, a terrorists, an evil man. There wasn't such an uproar about Braveheart. Why not?
mogwai605 2 years ago
Yes this is all true but nobody made Hitler or Holocaust look good. I dont know if you saw the movie or not but it made Che look like a saint. William Wallaces intentions have been hotly contested and his exploits have never been seperated from fact or fiction. We dont hate Kennedy because he was a politician we hate him because he got away with murder and never stopped trying to steal Americans money. Nothings wrong with Darwin, and Marx didnt know his ass from a hole in the ground.
zegermandude 2 years ago
Its not that we hate politicians, scientists, and writers. Sometimes we hate what they stand for. Hitler was a politician, he employed scientists to execute Jews, and he wrote Mein Kampf. Do you not hate him for that?
zegermandude 2 years ago
@sixthday132.
What the hell is wrong with Ted Kennedy, Darwin and Marx? You hate a Politician, a Scientist and a writer? Do you like anyone? Is everyone evil except you doll? Have you ever read Marx? At all? Or Darwin for that matter? I doubt it. Your rhetoric is pathetic.
mogwai605 2 years ago
"You can't compare a nation full of over 300 million people to one man. Nations change, and are not an individual."
Yes...you can. Would you compare Che to Batista? Was the Cuban nation before Che as bad as him? Or was he between a rock and a hard place and did something about it. Maybe you don't agree with his methods, but alot of poor Cubans did. I'm not a poor Cuban, so I don't really get a say.
mogwai605 2 years ago
@Grendo147
no,
because Pol Pot killed millions. che killed thousands....and you know what...i don't know why and who he killed. but i know US BACKED PLENTY OF DICTATORS THAT KILLED SOO MUCH MORE INCLUDING OUR MARINES BACKING THEM BEFORE CHE CAME INTO PLAY
SwampAshHSS 2 years ago
"this government does the same shit"
actually it did worse if you look at USA actions in south america :(
SwampAshHSS 2 years ago 2
Pride in your own ideals gives the opportunity to embrace ignorance concerning conflicting ideals. Those who change the world consider all; subtract preconceptions and assumptions, and truly seek the best way to promote basic values of safety, equality, love, community, and country. The reason so few exist and are hated is the fact that the masses refuse consideration, and want nothing more than the blood of all who do or disagree
bonelessBob 2 years ago
Wanting the blood of all who disagree was a Che trade mark.
wrenchinthecogs 2 years ago
I scroll and all I see is mindless rambling. Hating in all directions; regardless of who you think is right and how much better you think your ideals are, resorting to hate and verbal abuse makes you all the same.
people who learn to sacrifice and serve the people change things and make things better. Democracy or Socialism - if the leaders are brilliant the country will be fine. If the leaders are wastes of space, both will fail.
bonelessBob 2 years ago
read history che was a stupid monkey that castro used and then got rid off him sending him to a certain death and yes he was a mass murderer he killed more people than Hitler he was responsible for the creation of many concentration camps for people that listen to rock music like Beatles
he was one of the sickest disgusting stupid peaces of shit that walked on hearth
SEVANAL 2 years ago
I would dearly like to know where you get your information from. Che was neither stupid nor a monkey of Castros.
Yes he did cause thousands of deaths, but putting him in the same bracket as Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot, is grossly absurd. Batista, in every year of his rule killed more Cubans than Che did in his entire life.
To my American friends, I would say, stop reading the government propaganda. Che wasnt a mass murdered, he was a rank amateur in that respect.
jumpfer 2 years ago
@jumpfer he killed much more people than Hitler remember that hitler ordered murder Che committed murder che was a murderer he killed, hitler was a dictator he ordered it from ebay lol
you got my point
SEVANAL 1 year ago
I am completely stunned at Hollywood's embracing of all things backward and evil. This Che bastard was a murderer, a loonatic and a inhumane animal. How could people embrace this criminal? The liberal youth of this country will someday hand over the reigns of our democracy to socialist madmen and do so willfully. Che is standing next to Hitler, Mao, Stalin. Darwin, Lenin, Marx, Pol pot and Ted Kennedy in the lake of fire.
sixthday132 2 years ago