"...Moments..." An evening with Bill W.

[Marylost12]

AA is NOT worthless and 'brainwashing' its a program for recovering alcoholics(who never fully recover, always chance of relapse in anyone!) Finding a place to meet with other drunks and to help eachother admitting there is no higher power than the lord(which is true) and to accept that your not the greatest thing to ever walk the earth. AA is a wonderful program that I thank god my parents keep coming back to those meetings! Without AA my parents couldn't of kept sober. God Bless.

[MrDaemonB]

some brainwashing is required for sure, I mean the guy lying behind the dumpster smoking crack all day and night, like he dosen't need a thorough brainwashing? I have seen these people actually recover and live successful lives clean and sober,families careers,etc, it is a fucking miracle, the program is designed for sick people who need it and want it, and it works, 100% this is a proven fact

[jojodangerfield]

the critics claim it's either a devious brainwashing cult or that it simply doesn't work -- both cannot be true. you're free to join or leave as you choose, it's a choice. That choice works for some forever, for some just a period of time, and for many not at all. no need to tear it down based on it's founder's faults, most american institutions have some dark parts in their past if you investigate. make up your own mind folks.

[Yoganao]

Belladonna Bill W. was just a egotistal senile cult leader who cult of AA has NEVER WORKED, it's just a cult religion based on the far right wing pro Hitler Oxford group.

[Yoganao]

AA suppresses research into other treatment through their front groups like ASAM and NDACC. AA has been proven to have a negative success rate by any valid scientific study ever done. There is no honesty in AA at all. 1st, no-one is powerless from the first step on you're RIGOROUSLY LIED TO!

[petergagu]

Message for the Cult of anti-AA propagandists: Welcome to the human race! By the way, what's your problem? Take or leave it, why don't you?

[ndrthrdr1]

@petergagu The program says that if a person leaves AA he is almost certainly signing his own death warrant. Millions of us have left AA, have stayed sober, and are now members of mainstream society. Don't let AA convince you that we are lying or nonexistent. If you believe in faith healing, maybe AA is for you. Otherwise, shop around for an approach that suits you.

[simplicity135]

The sad story is Bill did not follow the belief system he promoted. A Founder's Watch committee was established to keep him away from women, especially the newcomer's. Bill did not pay royalties to those who wrote the BB with him.

AA, simply, does not fit the medical, therapeutic model that is taught and has been taught in university's.

[rexxed33]

aa is full of lies and brain washing stay away there rate of recovery is 3%

[MrDaemonB]

@rexxed33 Narcotics Anonymous' success rate for those who have done enough is no less than 100%. AA is probably the same, if you sift past those who think that their problem is merely alcohol, and all the yahoos who are their to find a date. No addict who has completely surrendered to writing and living the 12 steps has ever failed to find recovery. A proven fact

[ndrthrdr1]

@MrDaemonB How do you decide which people have "completely surrendered"? The ones who claim to have succeeded? That's blatant cherry-picking. It's dangerous to convince anyone that lack of success in NA must mean that they aren't doing it right.

[MrDaemonB]

@ndrthrdr1 I only decided for myself. Speaking from my own experience, I once thought that I had surrendered(by showing up at the meetings etc). I wasn't able to stay clean, and yeah it was because I wasn't doing it right and more importantly, because I hadn't done enough dope yet. So the success rate is no less than 100% for those who've done enough dope. Working the 12 steps helps to uncover and heal that which kept us using dope. True that most who show up there havent done enough dope yet.

[backwoodsmister]

Many "open-minded" people have vested interest in calling AA a cult to keep people from giving it a shot. If I never gave it a chance, I'd be dead.

Call it what you want, but it worked for me when treatment centers, jails & everything else did not. You cannot destroy my experience.

Plenty of AA's are full of shit because they are...HUMAN. But by applying the principles of "Trust God, Clean House, Help Others," I have found freedom from drugs & alcohol. If it works, who cares what you call it?

[lighwave]

Any time a group tells you to stop thinking for yourself & to abandon your friends & family, you know that youre dealing with a cult. AA is a blatant CULT!

[lighwave]

Becoming an emotionally indulgent, cult peddling religious zealot is not in any way what-so-ever going to help in recovery from anything, & it will give you more problems than you already had. Stay away from the cult of AA. Any time a group tells you to stop thinking for yourself & to abandon your friends & family, you know that youre dealing with a cult.

[DOMinater08]

Funny how some people trash on AA, I can only wonder if they are in denial about a particular issue themselves. AA works for some people. If you ask me (which I know you didn't), alcohol had them living loser lives, but they decided to make a change to become successes. Staying sober is a huge success.

[AzzholesAnonymous]

Yes, the program is perfect, those who disagree are dishonest or sick!

[AAPetofile]

8. Decided to dig up old trash, and think about everything that went wrong in life and blamed myself for it, and then, embarrassed myself by telling some mentally ill, controlling person, how everything in my life was my fault

[AAPetofile]

10 I allowed a bunch of angry self proclaimed alcoholics to continuously break down my will.

11. I was told to speak with an invisible man in the sky or my toaster and ask them what to do on every decision that I made. When I told the sponsor that my toaster and invisible man did not answer me, he said that he heard them talking. He said that he had years of experience and so he could hear the invisible voices. I then, did want he told me, the voices were telling me to do.

[AzzholesAnonymous]

I am AA.

You are powerless.

Do the steps or DIE!

[Ciada91]

Odd ...Bill Wilson claimed to be sober, but never stopped lying, cheating, and promoting. I ask rhetorically, where is the copy of Bill's 5th step, the one in which he admitted to being unfaithful to his wife throughout his marriage? Did Bill change? No. Why would I believe anyone else associated with AA has?

[DawgLuv]

Thank you - Bill was actually the ANTICHRIST! He could not accept the fact that he was a LOSER and did NOT want to take responsibility for his actions!!! AA gives people an out for their actions and makes it OK to be a loser!! Of course, this is all subjective.

[backwoodsmister]

"Dawg," you seem to be living in the same type of fairy tale world you accuse the "cult followers" to be living in. There are MILLIONS that disagree with your theories that addiction is merely a weakness that can be overcome if you have enough willpower. According to your philosophy, anyone who doesn't possess your superior willpower & intellect gets exactly what he deserves & has no hope of recovery. Fortunately I didn't buy into the idea that I was beyond help & have recovered thanks to AA.

[DawgLuv]

You are not beyond help....Nobody is...Society is what it is, but I do LOVE you because you play good banjo!! What I am trying to preach is -- PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE

[backwoodsmister]

Dawg, if "people are people" then don't be so closed-minded to tell me that AA doesn't work. It worked for me and works for many others. If howling at the moon could prevent you from destroying your life, I would not have a problem with you howling it up.

Whatever it takes to get you through the day, I say. That is called "live and let live," and is the concept of being open minded and not condemning another's beliefs. AA saved my life when nothing else could. That is fact.

[DawgLuv]

You know, you are right! I apologize and will cease & desist.

[LeanaHM76]

I'm with you on this! A.A. saved my father and it's saved me too (I, too, am a recovering alcoholic-binge drinker). I've met some really great people and have a few friends in it. I never had friends when I was drinking (people at bars and parties aren't and WILL NOT ever be your real friends).

It's a great club to join. The best...

[DOMinater08]

Definitely subjective. Keep drinking.

[DawgLuv]

This just in - Bill W. has risen from the dead, yes he is (or thought he was) equal to Jesus Christ!!! Do you see the resemblance?

[backwoodsmister]

AA is not the only way, but before I found AA, I stole, lied and I did whatever it took to get my stuff. Jails & rehabs couldn't change me. I drank & did drugs until I was put into ICU and almost died.

Working AA (which didn't cost me one cent) literally saved my life. I have been clean & sober almost 2 years now and have recovered from my addiction. I have a job, own a house and am happier than I have ever been.

Do you haters wish I would have died rather than finding the "cult" of AA?

[DawgLuv]

Sounds like you finally understood that society doesn't like thieves & liars to me and that you didn't want to die. You actually decided to grow up and take ownership of your life - BRAVO!!

[backwoodsmister]

Hey, "Dawg," the word ADDICTION means you can't stop self-destructing despite your best efforts. Addiction means at some point you LOSE the choice, and you are controlled by the substance which uses your brain & body to feed more of the stuff into you. Maybe you've never been there?

If it was a matter of just picking yourself up & wishing not to do it anymore, then it wouldn't really be addiction, more like a bad habit. It took something with more power than I had to stop. For many, this is AA.

[DawgLuv]

Contrary to what Bill W. says, not being able to say no, is not a disease (cirrhosis is)!! It is a social weakness because you didn't want to tell yourself no when problems arose. What do you think about yourself if you drink some and decide to stop again after going to AA? That means you have a good willpower and think it is worth it to stop again. I believe people can be physically addicted to something by showing withdrawal, but stopping is up to them after the withdrawal.

[DawgLuv]

FYI, I was convinced that I was an alcoholic physically, but I returned to "normal" drinking for the past several years....so was I really an alcoholic? It didn't kill me - I know, I know - YET? I did it myself by willpower - no one really knows if they are an alcoholic and to term yourself as such is just demeaning.

[watcherwolf]

Is name calling spiritual? lol.

[watcherwolf]

Bill W. was a fake. Move on, tumescent345.

A.A. is cult bullshit.

[backwoodsmister]

"watcher," you are a typical hater douchebag. Can't crawl out of your negative pit? Then try to drag everyone else down, right? Pissy little shits like you clutter every street in every corner of the globe & they all want the same thing: To make everyone else feel as shitty as they do. See a parade? Your instinct is to rain on it. Bet those closest to you are having a real fun time being around you!

PS: Name ONE cult where there is no leader & no one is getting paid to service people's needs?

[andredn4]

Nice one my friend.Just turned 6 years sober and drunks like me used to die b4 this wonderful fellowship was founded.When life is hard sometimes,I'm grateful I get to have a hard life and learn thru the experience. I wouldn't not wanna know this life!Anyone who mocks,ask the families of men and women whose lives have been saved!I shall post a poem written by my mother when I had just cleaned up!

[JimmyNoodles1]

Can you back up your words?? Are you a drunk? Wait.....You will not be honest. You'll just bash me and give me a line a crap.

[GoLove09]

It doesn't matter to me what anybody who isn't an alcoholic thinks about the program. It's simply irrelevent to my recovery. I know what the program has done to save me from a seemingly hopeless state of body and mind. I will always be grateful for the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, from the founders right up to the man I met this week who had nowhere else to turn.

[DawgLuv]

Labelling - nice - so are you better than me because you are an alcoholic as you label yourself? If it doesn't matter, then why are you responding? Just to get your point across?

[GoLove09]

Better than you? That's exactly what my reply meant. Remember, WE alcoholics are childish and overly sensitive. If you aren't an alcoholic, what do you care about any of it. Slighted at a meeting once upon a time?

[DawgLuv]

Go to your meeting, just don't push it on us!!!!

[tumescent345]

Thanks. I was at a big AA meeting when they announced Bill Ws' death. I turned to the man next to me and asked who they were talking about. I had been sober for about a year and a half but had never heard of Bill W. They didn't talk much about the founders in those days.