Dear Richard. thanks for posting. A significant change in tone . So am I right to say that when you focus more on the throat as you described this will elicit most of the support from the diaphragm...and can this be also referred to as glottal compression?
One question, when I'm shaping the vowels in the throat, but not moving my lips, my tongue moves along while I'm shaping the vowels with the throat, is it okay or shouldn't the tongue move as well?
@Kevindad123 - Simple. Size matters in certain situations. Physically bigger people have bigger necks, bigger larynx's and usually thicker vocal cords.
@ronaldo101000 - Yes SLS is good for the lighter style of singing like Country, Jazz, light Pop, R&B etc. but if you want the big sound of Rock or Metal you need a classical technique approach. Its the ONLY way to achieve that deep, dark sound.
@ronaldo101000 - How many times must I say this to you SLS people? Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson were NOT taught to sing using SLS. They went to Riggs to learn how maintain their voices on tour. Riggs claims them as "students" which is completely misleading. Those artists were taught classical technique early in their careers and knew how to sing properly. But they never had proper warm up or maintenance routines (lacking in classical teaching), Riggs gave them that.
@thoughtless01ya - I think you refer to my vibrato. Vibrato happens naturally when there is little or no tension in the voice. If you are pushing in any sense in the throat to make sound come out, vibrato will be near impossible to do gently, tight or widely spaced out.
To fix your problem, you'll need to learn to support your voice from the body better and get the vocal cords to relax.
Hi, I agreed with u. I was contemplating about the sacrificial of power too. I'm a beginner in both classical & SLS methods. Right now I'm still doing SLS, because I can't find an alternative to prevent voice-breaking when we glide through the pitches. So, I think we have to sacrifice some power if we want comfort... It's about choices. :)
I heard that really skilled singers can control their dynamics and tone. In other words, they can make their voice sound thin and weak in some parts of the song but also make them deep and loud if they wanted to. Will classical techniques teach people to do both?
@Jeon1958able - Yes there is classical technique called "messa voce" or "half voice" which is a technique to learn how to control the volume and intensity of your voice. To "swell" your voice. Tone control is done by manipulating support, throat space and larynx position.
@elenatraina - actually its spelled "messa" and one can say it as messa voce or messa di voce. It all depends on if you speak newer or older form of Italian.
Well... I am italian, and I studied a bit of classical singing.
Theese are the correct words: "mezza voce" is "half voice": it is a not-totally-full voice (u can imagine it as a soft mix), sweet, useful for "piano" or to achieve some delicate emotional effects. Messa di voce is another thing: litterally it means "putting the voice" (in the right spaces), and usually it refers dynamic variation from pianissimo to fortussimo to pianissimo on the same note..
@ancxjo - the spelling and usage "messa" or "messa di" depend on who you ask. Older people say one thing, younger Italians say another.
Look at Pt. 1 of the video on "How to Sing Bel Canto" with Pavarotti, Sutherland and Horne. Marilyn Horne asks Pavarotti this very question about the usage of the term "Messa Di Voce".
"Messa voce" means nothing, and it is a grammatical mistake, because the substantive "messa" requires the proposition "di" (of, in order to indicate what is putted somwhere).
So, only "messa di voce" can mean something.
Its direct meaning is "putting of the voice". What that means, in the fiel of vocal technique, is another problem (that is the problem disputed),
Somone argues that it means: "putting the voice in some, "right", places (resonant points?).
so its meaning would be the same of "impostazione" (impostare la voce = literally, put the voice in some places - "posti")
Other argues that it could mean: put the voice in existence, so it could mean that the singers stars from pianissimo, and then he/she gives existence to his/her voice.
"Mezza" is a totally different word. It never was an ancient equivalent of "messa".
"Mezza" menas "half", so "mezza voce" means literally "half voice". (to be continued)
I like your opinion, its great! I also read some of the comments, and noticed how many people "defend" this sls. So let me give one more example: Michael Bolton, 58yr old, still kicking with good sounding voice and high notes, and he's a classically trained singer wihtout a doubt. At least he knows how to sing notes above high C and still sound like a man!
@iCrooner89 - SLS has a sort of "cult following" in many respects. While I don't day SLS is useless but if you want to sound big and powerful in your upper belt range SLS simply doesn't cut it. Nor does the TVS approach. Its too light between Middle C and male High C.
@iCrooner89 Actually, Michael Bolton does SLS too. He's (WAS) one of Seth Rigg's students and is even in Rigg's Singing for the Stars book. I do agree that he sounds GREAT though! (Even at his age) :D
@mountveggie - A lot of Seth's "celebrity students" were not taught by him initially. They all came to him to learn how to maintain their voices on tour, how to warm up and warm down etc. Even with SLS training, some of them have had vocal problems anyway.
Was wondering what style is best for learning vibrato? Just curious...I do feel tiny pulses in my diaphragm when doing vibrato along with vibrations in my throat...Was wondering if you could make a video helping us out with vibrato
@megajohn01 - vibrato is really associated with a style but if you are talking about a "type" of vibrato there are a few - throat, mouth and stomach. Mouth and stomach are the most unpleasant to listen to and hardest to control. Throat vibrato is a slight oscillation or back & forth sliding of the two notes very quickly.
Vibrato can ONLY happen when the voice is not tense in anyway. If you have tension, vibrato does not work.
Excuse me, Kelly Clarkson?! Natalie Cole?! Do you think those are thin voices?! SLS my friend. And by the time you're hitting high Cs and Ds, am pretty sure the audience will run out if you try to hit em with a "broad, loud" voice.
@relaxedrebel08 - Natalie Cole was not taught to SING by an SLS coach, neither was Kelly Clarkson. They both had classical training in their younger years and used SLS later to learn how to warm up and maintain their voice for live performance on tour.
I have yet to find anyone who can name me someone who was SLS TRAINED from scratch that has a big voice in the upper mix.
@RocktheStageNYC Kelly Clarkson had actually gotten a nodule after belting after American Idol (which was due to "classical" method) and only once she went into SLS training was she able to hit those notes with power, without straining her voice. Natalie Cole, herself admitted she wasn't able to hit those notes aggressively without hurting herself before SLS.
See, SLS doesn't change the way you sing, it only helps you do it without straining your voice.
@relaxedrebel08 - Clarkson's nodule was attributed to her overworking her voice without a proper warm up and cool down. (I know her original vocal coach).
You make my point. All they did was learn how to not "push" every night. To back away from using too much pressure. They still used their underlying classical techniques to sound big otherwise. Classical, if taught correctly, teaches you to free your voice from strain by proper support without pressure in the throat.
@relaxedrebel08 - In addition, SLS is basically designed as a "damage control" system of techniques. The problem is, SLS lacks any sort of open throat or proper diaphragmatic support. Its backs away from sub glottal pressure too much. This results in laryngeal singing where you blend to a light mix and a create a thin upper range.
SLS will change the way you sing. I've seen over & over with my students. I have to teach them to stop singing with their laryngeal muscles so much.
@relaxedrebel08 - your second point makes no sense - who hits high Cs & Ds with a broad, loud voice? Only those untrained in proper vocal technique. No one with vocal technique, either classical or SLS will hit a C5 or D5 with a wide sound.
@relaxedrebel08 - Third point - Keith Urban now has to have vocal surgery - another SLS singer - who is actually promoted on Singing Success's website. You really don't hear about classical singers (professional one's anyway) having throat surgery for nodules.
I really want to know how to add some distortion in my voice. Not like growling/screaming...but more of actual singing with some edge in it. Jacoby Shaddix is an excellent example of someone who sings like that but doesn't over use it. I've looked everywhere and can't find anyone who shows how to do it. How to layer that with your natural voice. One of the guys from SingingSuccess said something about it but they just want money and don't really teach anything in their 'free tip' videos.
@ElleCaszatt buy Break the Chains, you'll learn how to do a few things, including vocal fry that help you have an edgy sound without being screamy or raspy.
@Ylyenne - Octave range is not about support but flexibility of the voice and the ability to thin the voice. 99% of appoggio singers are opera/classical singers and therefore are not concerned with more than 3 octaves as more is not needed for males in that genre (you can get away with 2 octaves in opera) Appoggio is just a means to balance the voice. Adding chest resonance to upper notes is about your tonality not support. Dividing the voice into registers WILL fragment your voice.
@RocktheStageNYC Just wondering what you general theory on the voice is. Meaning is it more of a capacity (as in a muscular/structural conditioning) or a coordination thing. Kind of like getting good at throwing darts (coordination) versus the bench press (capacity). Obviously, that is very simplified, because a requisite capacity for achieving a particular skill will always exist. I guess I'm wondering which of the two is the most common limiting factor between singing levels.
@Polarcupcheck - The most common limiting factor between singing levels is dedication to the art of practicing your craft. The level of skill you acquire in anything is a combination of natural ability and sheer determination to get better. The greatest tool in creating a great voice is the power of the mind. It sounds simplistic but all your abilities, fears and limitations live in your mind. They can either motivate you or hold you back. The body follows the brain.
@Ylyenne - Appoggio technique is basically what I am advocating here. "Intercostal diaphragmatic support" like Enrico Caruso and Luciano Pavarotti. I was turned onto this technique through the book "Caruso and the art of singing" by his vocal coach Salvatore Fucito and Maestro Franco Tennelli. I had heard about this technique for years but never fully understood it until 2-3 years ago. I always used proper support but using the more refined appoggio technique has really made my voice powerful
in years i developed head, mix,belt, etc but i have a problem that is that around a year ago i got stucked on D5 (i was increasing slowly my range but suddenly i kept stucked on that note until now!)
i dont know why i cant go with my head voice more high than that note!
another thing is that i am just between a low tenor and a high bari but on falsetto i always have that same note D5 as my top note too,so i think i am makin the same mistake in both falsetto and head!
Kevin, do you think the use of vocal fry as an exercise will damage the voice (nodules)? Is it unusually risky to use? I see some people promoting it as a way to learn to reduce tension, and then others are bashing Manning for recommending it as a warm-up due to supposedly being dangerous.
@Polarcupcheck - saying Vocal Fry is dangerous is pure nonsense and perpetrated by uninformed on modern vocal technique classical singers. Vocal Fry is actually very good at getting the vocal cords back in shape after a cold. Its a sort of semi-occluded phonation similar to lip rolls or humming.
They are a great way to learn how to sing from low to high without breaking. Unfortunately. Manning places a little too much emphasis on it in certain parts of his training.
@RocktheStageNYC Do you think there are any instances (maybe what they call fry-screaming) in which a particular fry technique would be bad? Like one article stated they didn't like the idea of using it while the larynx would rise, but a lower larynx was useful. Goes on to say it is good in small doses, maybe just a little bit (few minutes) each day to warm up. I read that Blatt liked the technique for reducing tension and breathy qualities.
@Polarcupcheck - I use vocal fry every day in my warm up for the past 20 years - no ill effects. Like falsetto, it is an affectation - a vocal trick and should be used sparingly. Fry screaming is over the long term bad for you but that fad has come & gone. I don't see people still fry screaming 10 years from now.
Fry is a great tool to learn how to increase range without tension amd get the cords closing instead of falsetto. In the end you have to exert air pressure and get the cords together
SPEECH LEVEL SINGING doesn't mean "SING LIKE YOU SPEAK", you should learn a little bit about the technique before speaking about something you don't know.. And also u should take a look at the list of SLS singers.. Listen to them first.. Classical Technique?.... please..
@MrDexter000 - SLS does mean sing like you speak. Its damage control so singing has the same ease as speech. I know what I'm talking about seeing that I've was singing professionally before you were born.
show me the list of "supposed SLS singers" who started from scratch in SLS technique. Or did they come to the technique later in their careers to save their voices. I know you want to stump out names like Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles etc. Same old story.
@samurai1993 - I Wanna Rock is being put together very carefully. Its going to be a vocal program like no other ever done before. Breaking the Chains will also be re-done this new way down the line.
@RocktheStageNYC Sweet. I bought Breaking the Chains to see the exercises, but I'm having a hard time with no previous experience in singing, nothing wrong with it, I was expecting that because of my inexperience. I'm doing them slowly and lightly anyway, until I Wanna Rock comes out. Salutes and thanks for all your helpful material!
@RocktheStageNYC Will those who purchased the original Breaking the Chains get the new Breaking the Chains complimentary, or perhaps at a significantly reduced price?
@AtariMaxiToriyama - there won't be a new BTC for quite some time. All I am doing is updating a couple of files that were released with the wrong scales.
once i heard this gay talking on the mall , and he sounded really akward like a trumphet, and i said to myself , there is no way he could ever sing in his speaking voice , so i realized that not anyone can sing in their speaking voices.
@acidtania - your speaking voice is always present somewhat in your singing voice but they can sound very different. There are mnay examples of people who speak one way and sing another way and you'd never know they were the same person.
hey Kevin! I'm enjoying your Breaking the Chains course which I bought last week! Great stuff so far. I have one issue though, I don't know what phonation is and there's no definition given before teaching us that we should coordinate that with our breathing. I feel a bit stuck on that, so can you just tell me a definition? I hope that's an appropriate question to ask here, sorry. :)))
@Rosannasfriend In all simplified means, phonation is simply the art of making sound through vibrations. You are phonating when you speak, laugh, sing and so forth.
@KurogetsuOokami yeah, that's what I have read since I asked the question. I understand it now, but thanks anyway. I really love these lessons, and I'm glad I don't have to spend $400 to get 3 months of lessons.
Hi! It shows you know a lot, but is a shame that those who do not speak the language do not understand it. I think it would be nice if you include subtitles (in English) at least relevant parts, so you can put the machine translation. It's just a humble suggestion. Your videos are great! Good luck, goodbye.
I have done the mum, mum, mums and the nay, nay,nays but even if i could do them up until G above male high C made me feel unconnected in my body which may work without a microphone in pop and jazz and softmusic, but I want to sing a for real fortissimo that is impressive without any gadgets, dynamics in the range and an open sound is much more important then high whistle tones and a thin voice!
I have a tips which works for me! If you are familiar with the nay, nay, nay exercise from Riggs and Manning and feel a little mousy and tight in the throat doing that exercise, watch Kevins video on powerful high mixed voice and take the Eh sound with the toungue sticking out from that exercise and do the nays on Ng instead of N with the toungue outside the mouth and the mousy tone will hopefully dissapear. Ps Watch the jaw carefully so it´s relaxed otherwise unwanted tension comes along.
i have to agree , at the begining , SLS, seemed just nice , it made sense to me , but now i want to sing with more power and i can´t do that with what brett has tought me , i can´t wait to get "breaking the chains , , i hope im ready to that
" , i have loved all of your advices Kevin thank you so much , you rock!!
This I have to agree with Kevin on the many SLS teachers are closed minded (I used to be the same) due to the fact that they always talk shit about other types of training. I have had many SLS coaches, and because this; they made me think for the longest time that SLS was the only way to sing. SLS causes students to relax way too much, therefore lack of power. Not until I checked out Jaimie Vendera with his opera approach, i have to say I have more power in my range then any Brett manning/SLS.
@thienfoil - SLS has obtained an almost "cult" like devotion to it by a lotof it practicioners and coaches. I am getting some of them commenting under this video. Its like I'm attacking their version of Scientology.
Speech Level Singing is by its own definition, "damage control". The nasty side effect of all this "damage control" is the voice being stripped of any fullness, roundness, depth or projection power. Manning's approach differs from Rigg's in many ways but still strips away depth.
@cwehden - what the fuck are you talking about? I have been singing for 20 years and have sung for crowds of 13,000 people - I have NO fear of sounding bad or being judged. I'm taking crap from you aren't I?
Lets face it - you have NO IDEA who I am, what I have done and what I teach my students.
@mrlguk - There is nothing illegal about teaching some SLS techniques. Is there a copyright on a lip roll or tongue trill? How about "Nay Nay Nay" or "Go Go Go"? Did someone trademark the English language now? Man you SLS cultists really take the cake.
@RocktheStageNYC Hang on one minute, SLS releases the upper registers by reducing the larynx instead of stretching it like classical. How does this "create damage," exactly?
@KurogetsuOokami - I'm not sure what classical approach you know but I've never heard of any technique that "stretches" the larynx. Bel Canto teaches a neutral larynx just like SLS. SLS maintains a smaller acoustical space in the throat. Over time this damages the voice by pinching the sound out of the vocal folds.
explain how a classical approach "stretches" the larynx? (This should be interesting).
@RocktheStageNYC It will be, indeed. I am not particularly sure if this pertains to classical or other techniques.
The larynx is stretched out in these certain techniques, giving you this sort of "way" into your higher registers. SLS reduces the size of the larynx to give more "mobility" and therefore, more room (analogy of height of some sort) to sing in, ultimately allowing you to sing in the upper registers easier, rather than stretching it to increase range.
@KurogetsuOokami - You have terminology mixed up. Larynx & pharynx. They are different things. The larynx is a large entity which contains numerous muscles and the vocal folds. The Pharynx is your throat.
No technique "reduces" or "stretches" the size of the larynx but you can stretch/reduce the size of the pharynx. I think this is where you're confused with what SLS does physically. SLS closes the pharynx in upper ranges to activate a lot of "twang". Bel Canto opens the pharynx.
@RocktheStageNYC That may be it, but there's another thing, Kevin. What's the "twang" anyway?
Like you state in the video, SLS thins out the voice and that allows singers to sing higher easier, rather than the full-voice approach. I know this because I've done Brett's stuff and it really does let you do so a lot easier than going in with that giant sound.
@KurogetsuOokami - Oh boy if you don't know what "twang" is then I was right about your lack of a complete understanding of what SLS and classical techniques actually accomplish. In SLS they call "twang" a pharyngeal sound. Brett refers to it a lot in "Mastering Mix". Its a squeezing of the pharynx to create an edgy overtone that allows the resonance to rise into the head. SLS does too much pharyngeal squeezing whereas classical uses pharyngeal but in much smaller amounts to avoid nasality.
@RocktheStageNYC Well I know that, I just didn't know what sense you meant it in; the context. I was rather caught off guard by the word, and was scrambling to find its meaning, especially since you placed it inside "" marks. Yes, SLS does do that, in fact, to strengthen the thin voices, and by any means it's perfect for pop and soul singers who want a little emphasis on particular notes.
@KurogetsuOokami - Part 2: SLS thins out the voice - too much. Pharyngeal is essential to get the resonance in the head but SLS relies on it too much and the throat space becomes too narrow as you enter upper frequencies.
To create depth and fullness to the voice, the throat has to remain more open and relaxed. I don't like the overly dark sound of a classical voice, so I advocate an approach somewhere between that and the overly pharyngeal SLS sound. This creates a more balanced tone.
@RocktheStageNYC So you approach the higher frequencies--how? By slowly working into higher notes one at a time? I know that works well but it just takes too bloody long.
I'm not an SLS cultist like you say, rather, taking a side that works for me. The pharyngeal "ng" sound does indeed, do what you say. However, as I go higher, I reach the end of my chest voice and once I enter mix voice and into my head voice, it just narrows again. Probably because of muscle memory, yes?
@KurogetsuOokami - I worked into my higher notes in an unusual manner. I used very long and drawn out vocalises that forced me to draw out my breath longer and longer. The more I had to draw breath support out, the more I had to relax and not squeeze the throat. The "round" or "long" scale used a lot by Manning is a great one. The longer note range helped me connect my lower & upper registers in one exercise. I also used some old classical scales. Some of them are in my vocal course.
@KurogetsuOokami - oh forgot to mention. I use mainly the vowel sound of "awe" like in the word "lawn". This is the Italian way of saying "aah". This sound, to me, has elements of both dark and bright tones. Its a somewhat neutral tone, neither too heavy or too light.
SLS also uses that "Nay" sound which is beyond annoying, but I rather like the "Mum" & "Go" sounds. They can be used to give the voice depth if used with solid breath support. Unfortunately SLS doesn't stress support that much.
@RocktheStageNYC Answer my question, Kevin, i know about SLS's vocal exercises. I use them daily, the "nay" is only temporary to help the cords connect, a fix for those who breaks into falsetto in their upper registers. Apparently "kay" and, oddly, "gay" does the same thing as well. Any "n" or "k" or "g" sound does this.
@KurogetsuOokami - actually "Nay" is used to activate pharyngeal placement, its not very good at keeping cord closure unless you really lean on the "N". Exercise sounds like "Go", "Gug", "Coo" are actually better at activating cord closure with a bit more compression. Things like "Mum" and "Nuh" are used to tame a rising larynx.
Exercises using "K", "N", "G" and "V" are well know within old Bel Canto. "Gee Ya" is a classic example.
@RocktheStageNYC It is better to note that the dopey "booh" is more efficient for a rising larynx, plus more cord compression and a fix for those who opens up their faces for higher notes. Typically, I find the "mum" more tempting to open the vowels and stuff because of its lighter sound, and the "buh" strictly works in that area.
@RocktheStageNYC But you once talked about how babies could scream and yell all day without any ill effects. I thought we were training our voices to do EXACTLY what it was designed to do.
@AtariMaxiToriyama - Training it to do vocal gymnastics likes scales, runs, weird pharyngeal exercises are not natural to human speech or communication. We are hard wired to make sound, in a VERY simple way.
Fortunately for us humans, the larynx is an amazing instrument that can adapt that kind of finite control. But physically that's not what they are designed to do. Your larynx is really designed to act as a pressure valve for the body so we have leverage to lift, pull and push things.
@KurogetsuOokami - I didn't mean to imply you are a troll looking to stir up trouble. I apologize if it came across that way.
You like the SLS technique and that is fine. For me SLS is really only practical for warm ups and learning to sing softly with a full tone. Manning's stuff is brilliant if you're not a Rock/Hard Rock/Metal singer.
@KurogetsuOokami - How many times do I have to say this before you get it? I am NOT saying SLS doesn't have its benefits nor am I saying the classical approach is 100% correct either.
What I am saying in this video is that if you want to create a big and powerful voice suitable for Rock/Hard Rock/Metal singing (which is what I teach) you gotta lean more towards the classical approach. SLS simple won't do that for you.
ok so I've been going through a self vocal exercise course for the past 7 or 8 months without really being able to find that powerful mix voice that I wanted...well been practicing this and the tongue out eh exercise for the past week and I already have access to a powerful mix...I still need to work on it, but the feeling is amazing...and its my birthday tom...so thanks for the great birthday present :p I guess this method was what was best for me, and of course the months of training helped
Let me pose this question - which A4 would you rather have - one like Tom Jones / Eric Adams (classically trained) or one like Brett Manning (SLS trained)?
@RocktheStageNYC A powerful voice is not all that is present. What a singer needs is specific instructions that lead them to experimenting on their own, and SLS does this. Series of exercises that do tons of things, like vocal fry, hums, lip rolls, all simplify how the voice works. None of this is present in classical. By lowering the volume as we ascend, this adds flexibility and smoothness to the voice, something classical doesn't have, since all they do is focus on range and power, obviously.
@KurogetsuOokami - you don't understand the classical approach at all. Hums and lip rolls ARE in classical training (at least in the 20th century). It does not purely focus on range and power unless you are training just to be a loud and high opera singer. Classical technique mainly focuses on tonality and balance of the resonances.
The key to high notes is NOT backing off volume but balancing air pressure and covering the tone to keep from yelling or being shrill.
I still dont understand why so many SLS teachers criticize classical styles so much while artists like Kelly clarkson, Josh Groban, and michael Bolton are all classically train and they are very good singers.
@thienfoil - Because classical pedagogy is the standard by which all others are judged. SLS teachers compete with classical teachers for students - especially here in New York City - so tearing it down is in their financial best interest.
Its actually ironic that they criticize classical technique because according to Seth Riggs "SLS" is an offshoot of the ultimate in classical technique - Bel Canto.
@mrlguk - SLS is a buzzword that barely competent teachers use to attract unknowing students so of course you will see 000's of coaches jump on the bandwagon. I live in NYC, the home of Broadway and The Metropolitan Opera House. You will not find any successful, working Broadway singer who uses SLS technique. They are ALL classically trained.
You are completely missing my point in this video. To create a BIG and POWERFUL voice suitable for singing Rock & Metal, steer clear of SLS.
@RocktheStageNYC yes all my students are idiots that I attract in to teach them rubbish and thin voices. Erm, there are plenty of broadway singers that use SLS, just because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean they don't exist, Taylor Sternberg, Sutton Foster (Tony award winner), Christy Tarr, all used SLS and performed on Broadway. The only thing to steer clear of is the crap you are spreading
@mrlguk - oops you steeped in it there. I personally know Sutton Foster and her husband Christian (also a Broadway singer) and neither of them trained with SLS. Both are classically trained.
and hey haters, stop. i have learned so many things from this channel, so if you are bored go and watch tv or practice singing, have fun.. but you are insulting when we are all lovers of the same thing, we love to sing and we have to support us to that we always can go to the NEXT LEVEL!.. damn.. any way i have a question! i could use SLS as a warm up while i am focused on more classical techniques ? or definitely i have to choose? thanks!
@89gerardo - I'm actually a bass/baritone by nature. I had to train for many years to create a tenor type tone and range. Actually my range goes into the soprano range in full voice - up to D6 on a good day.
@cwehden - "laryngeal singing" is when you are more using muscular control than breath support to carry the voice. An over manipulation of the muscles surrounding the larynx is counter-productive. We are all born knowing how to make sound, raise/lower pitch, be quiet or loud. We made sound as babies/children through breath support & a relaxed throat. SLS is NOT how we were born making sound. Why try to teach your brain to make sound a different way? It doesn't make sense.
@cwehden - Rule? because this is Rock technique and that requires a fuller soudning voice. The channel name is "Rock the Stage". If you want that big rock sound you won't get it with SLS.
Incorrect. Fullness has everything to do with technique and how you create undertones and lower formants. Its not a "result" of good technique. You have to train that fullness, it's not a by product of technique. It IS a technique.
@RocktheStageNYC All I will say is from your comments I know that you have very little understanding of SLS. The ideas you are talking about go much deeper than you seem to realize and as a result you focus on the surface details and ignore the foundation. SLS does not produce a 'type' of voice it simply addresses the voice on a functional level, how you develop that is a choice. Plenty of rock singers have light voices, the best example being probably Glenn Hughes.
@RocktheStageNYC You know, Mr. Kevin, I have always accepted your statement that SLS will not create powerful voices for rock and metal, but I have seen the videos on the channel wherein rock singers and gospel singers and pop singers alike demonstrate incredible control and power.
I am caught between blindly agreeing with you, and blindly agreeing with my untrained ears.
@AtariMaxiToriyama - Ah but were those Rock & Gospel people trained in SLS from the beginning or did they come to it later to save their voices from tension & fatigue? A lot of people have well rounded and powerful voices naturally but never learned how to maintain it. So they seek training to save their voices. Modern singers tend to shy away from classical coaches so who's left? SLS coaches. All they do is show them how to NOT damage their already powerful voices. Stevie, Michael etc.
@KurogetsuOokami - I did not say SLS is ineffective. It just does not produce big, full voices like classical training does.
Seth Riggs takes credit for teaching Stevie Wonder & Michael Jackson how to sing. Too bad its a lie. Both of them already had great voices and had been singing for decades before they met Seth. They came to him to learn how to keep their voices on long tours.
Explain how classical does not offer power & consistency.
Manning would NEVER say SLS is better than classical
I'm a baritone and i enjoy singing Mark Boals (yngwie) and my voice gets tired easily but i can do the notes. This video is what i'm doing wrong and should be doing right. thanks for helping. its making a difference
@mightytreasure - gotta love Mark Boals. Fantastic singer. A great, classically trained voice. I too could do very high notes prior to proper training but I tired after 40min. Now I can sing for 4 hours without tiring or feeling any tension. Open throat and lots of breath compression makes all the difference.
@KurogetsuOokami I have trained classical and have the singing success program. You can increase your range and get a sound suited for pop and Rnb with speech level training. But if you want to sing harder stuff that requires more throatspace and support you get limited by speechlevel training. Just listen to Manning and Riggs own singing and then go to Kevin Richards,Ken tamplin or if you like classical singing Franco tenelli and listen to how they sound and you will hear a difference.
@Bjoerrelli - exactly. SLS is good for lighter singing styles like Pop, R&B, Country - but if you want to sing Rock, Hard Rock or Metal you gotta lean more towards the classical approach. Its more intense training than SLS.
SLS is fantastic if you have a lot of tension when singing. Its great for relieving tension. But once you free up that tension go for the open throat, breath compression approach and develop a much fuller tone.
@89gerardo - you can use both techniques for different purposes. SLS is really good for warm ups and relieving tension in the throat, but if you want a BIG sound you have to go with the open throat, heavy breath support of classical techniques.
@89gerardo You literally cannot use both techniques together. One is very straightforward, the other is very complex and clever. Classical technique deals with simplicity, and how to sing freely. But this technique says you have to use breath support, which simply means, breath harder, and push. With SLS, this is eliminated, and it deals with using cord coordinations to simplify singing. I've been using SLS primarily, and it's working wonders. Classical doesn't work for me, not one bit.
@KurogetsuOokami - Not so. Even SLS calls for breath support, just not as much. In classical you are NOT pushing or breathing harder, you are breathing smarter by compressing at the abdomen. This is the way we were all born making sound.
SLS complicates the process and uses laryngeal control. This is not how you were born making sound. Laryngeal singing creates thin voices. Breath compression adds mass naturally at the vocal folds creating more undertones and a fuller tonality.
@RocktheStageNYC Evidently, yes, you need good breath support to sing well, in all techniques.
In classical, the idea of a "stiff" diaphragm is strongly believed. Although it works, personally it's not that effective either. Classical follows the rule that singing must be relaxed, yet by lowering the jaw for every freaking high note, you meddle with that rule.
SLS is a much faster and more reliable method. Its exercises simplifies everything. Many youngsters sing R&B and pop, anyway.
@KurogetsuOokami - I was never taught to lower the jaw for high notes. In fact that would my diminish deep breath support for those notes.
SLS is not simpler, in fact it complicates the process of singing by over manipulation of the laryngeal musculature. Its counter to how you are born making sound. In singing technique there is no such thing as a "quick & easy fix".
I am talking about creating big Rock voices. You cannot get that with SLS.
@RocktheStageNYC In my case, that's exactly what my former teacher taught me to do, and of course, I canceled the lessons immediately. That proves that some teachers do know what they talk about, and some don't, while she keeps going on about her 48 years of singing. Sounds great, but rubbish.
The results are more evident and require less work, at least for me. I did not say it was a "quick & easy fix." I merely intended to say that it takes less time to work out, rather than classical.
@KurogetsuOokami Furthermore, it does mess with how we naturally breath, but every singing technique does that one way or another. In order to lower the larynx for a commercial sound, you had to keep it steady, yes? If we sing naturally, the larynx goes up and becomes tight, making our voices shake and crack. We had to tweak it to make it easier, and so the same mechanism applies to SLS. As for Rock voices, yes, SLS is not designed for heavy styles but it does make singing effortless in the end.
@RocktheStageNYC Really? When people start out singing, isn't that called "natural?" Since they didn't have any work on their voice yet. And they push their chin forward and draw their soft palate down, and their sound comes out really dull.
Will you let go of the babies thing? It does not compensate with what we are speaking of, and it hinders the purpose. I appreciate you acknowledging me as not a fool, but you're not taking what I'm explaining to a good extent.
@KurogetsuOokami - who says an untrained person juts their chin forward, drops the palate and makes a dull sound naturally? Thats just silly and an over generalization. I have taught 8 year olds who had wonderful, resonant and beautifully toned voices without ever taking a vocal lesson. 100% natural.
The baby analogy is 100% sound. How we are born making sound is simple and direct. SLS and Classical techniques mess with that simplicity. For me, SLS messes with it more.
@KurogetsuOokami - I am not here to be convinced by you or make you convert to my point of view. "SLS cultists" like yourself are too inflexible in your thinking.
My point is simple - SLS and Classical are neither the perfect technique. But if you want a big, powerful voice for singing Rock/Hard Rock and Metal - lean towards classical technique.
End of debate. Leave another comment and you will be banned.
It's funny how all these things get said by people that don't really understand SLS at all. As cwehden said, what about Stevie Wonder, Luther Vandross and Michael Jackson, Anne Lennox? Are you going turn around and say Michael Jackson and Stevie Wonder had weak thin voice? SLS does and can build resonant voices big voices. As with everything in life, people have different ways of doing things, and no surprise that when it comes to vocal teaching and lessons, everyone's an expert!
@mrlguk - Wrong. I am an expert. I am VERY well versed in SLS technique. I teach some of it to my students to relieve tension. I am tired of SLS people bringing up Riggs & Stevie, Luther, Michael. Its a misnomer. Stevie and Michael were not beginners when they met Riggs. They were already successful, career singers before being taught by Seth Riggs. Riggs boasts like he taught them to sing as kids which isn't true. All All he did was teach them how to maintain their voices on the road.
@mrlguk actually, as much as I love their voices, they do not have really full, rich sounds at all. They are powerful, agile, and with great ranges, but not full thick voices. I think Luther had a technique closer to the classical sound, and then added SLS to reduce tension and some of that other stuff that SLS does.
@mrlguk Eric Arcenaux is another youtube voice teacher, and his voice is good, but has an awful, nasally timbre and very thin sound. I am glad I found Kevin, cause his voice is MILES better, and his lessons have helped me over the last two years more than any other teacher I have watched or met. So, does he know that much about SLS? Maybe not. But I still trust him on most things about voice more than anyone else. The proof is in the RESULTS, and I"ve had them!
@cwehden The problem is that being able to sing ppp up until FFF with an open throat is much more important then light heady notes and whistle tone. Compare David Phelps with Wes Hampton one can sing full sounding notes open and vibrant and one has a nice tenor voice but no strong forte or fortissimo at all! But if you are pleased with a decent mezzoforte in your voice then speechlevel is the way to go! Seth Riggs voice is very similar to Mr Mannings alot of notes with little projection or power
@Bjoerrelli There are many SLS singers with great power other than Billy. You claim that SLS n SS singers have no power and are thin, but seem to ignore singers like Luther Vandross?! Stevie Wonder? How can you call these singers weak and thin?
@cwehden I have never heard that Luther Vandross is trained by Seth Riggs. I´ve heard that Michael Bolton´s been taking lessons from Mr Riggs. But as Kevin sais the hole idea of the nay, nay, nay or mom, mom, mom is to balance the voice without increasing the space in the throat and by doing so the possibility to increase the volume get´s very limited. The opposite technique to speech level would be Arturo Melocchi´s teaching which limits the range but gives a fortissimo to die for.
@cwehden - They were not taught SLS as beginners. They already had big, full sounding voices before they met Seth Riggs. This is the myth Riggs has perpetuated around himself about his celebrity clients. Luther, Stevie & Michael were established artists when they met Riggs. He didn't teach them how to sing, just to maintain their voices over time.
@cwehden Billy sings fuller then all the other singers in the Brett stab. But he has always done that I have the SS programe and he sang very full even back then.. The problem I feel is that his twangy upper register is something he has deweloped before he met Brett. He has got a great whistle tone because of the training though. The point is Mr Duwall learned by himself maybe listening to other gospelsingers to twang the notes in his high range.
@BeneSinging - remember I am a bass/baritone by nature so high notes are not as easy for me than for operatic/choral baritones or tenors. I try to avoid the classical "sound" as much as possible in my singing of songs but lean toward the sound in my vocalizing practice sessions. By overdoing it in the classical mode my contemporary mode is actually easier because its less narrow.
what if a singer combined the sls way of singing but with a more classical like open throat? then wouldn't this solve the problem?thinning out is vary important to reach your highest note possible.now do this with an open throat and walla!
@randallwaynemusic - Nope. One large hole in SLS is the fact that it denies the need for enough throat space or alteration of the vowels as a singer approaches the upper bridging area and higher range. Squeezing the spoken word function high into the upper range can put tremendous pressure on the larynx, paving the way for vocal damage.
Simply put you can't do SLS techniques with an open throat. How do you do Nay/Mum/Nuh/lip bubbles/tongue trills with an open throat? You can't.
Finally someone dears to tell the truth! I´ve been forced to take out my video with Mr Manning singing bohemian rhapsody. I guess they couldn´t handle it! If I would name an example of openthrout singing versus speech level singing I would compare Tom Jones with Adam Lopez. Lopez may have 6 octaves but the timbre ain´t comparable with Tom Jones at all! By the way I must say say that your voice has improved since the last videos! Fuller and richer in and above the passagio, your great!
@Bjoerrelli - in one of his recent videos Brett Manning addresses that Bohemian Rhapsody video and just calls it a "bad day" after consuming bad food. Well, I did a 2 hour show just 4 days after having laryngitis and didn't sound like that. Someone of his caliber of technique shouldn't sound like - ever - let alone allow himself to get up in front of people with his voice in that shape.
The Lopez/Jones comparison is spot on. Both are tenors but Jones' tone is fuller and much more powerful
@RocktheStageNYC If you watch Chris Keller´s recording of "Don´t stop believing" by Journey you can hear that even if he hits the notes and have a high tenor voice the long high B notes are tight in his throat. There is a video where Mr Manning shows how to get formants in the voice and there he sings louder then usual, but even if he only hits A-flats he sound strained and forced. When Tom Jones recorded the song "Thunderballl" with a long B-flat in the end it´s said that he fainted afterwards.
@Bjoerrelli - Tom Jones has said he nearly fainted after that B-flat4 because the producer wanted him to hold it for so long so they could fade it out.
Chris Keller had classical voice training in college before coming to Manning so he knows about breath support. Chris has a very thin, tenor speaking voice so that's why his singing voice sounds that way, not because of tension. The guy CAN wail though. I just don't like his tone but he can't help a lot of that. Its just his natural voice.
Svara på det här videoklippet... Jussi Bjorling complained about an aching back due to his support or airflowcontrol. I have to be honest Bjorling´s timbre is something that Mr Manning is lighyears from, even if he can whistle with the dolphins. What you showed with your other video "powerful mix" was that opening the throat more has nothing to do with singing with a heavy Chest registratration. Even if the illusion that you do is much stronger then if you sing the speechlevel way.
@Bjoerrelli - Yes its not about heavy chest singing, its about creating lower undertones and darker formants. Open, relaxed throats with balanced, focused breath support/appoggio creates those lower tones and creates a much fuller sound. Its not about pushing at all.
Btw.. do you ship your cd's course to Taiwan?
winwin997 2 days ago in playlist Favorite videos
@winwin997 - Yup. Anywhere in the world.
RocktheStageNYC 2 days ago
Dear Richard. thanks for posting. A significant change in tone . So am I right to say that when you focus more on the throat as you described this will elicit most of the support from the diaphragm...and can this be also referred to as glottal compression?
winwin997 3 days ago
♪ Thanks for your expert help and listening to NAZ! Dis iz Gud Stuff ♪ U Rox the Sox...
cyndiek 2 weeks ago
One question, when I'm shaping the vowels in the throat, but not moving my lips, my tongue moves along while I'm shaping the vowels with the throat, is it okay or shouldn't the tongue move as well?
Piarose7 3 weeks ago
Can you explain the phenomenon I have noticed when "heavy" people seem to have better/ more "acoustical" voices?
Kevindad123 3 weeks ago
@Kevindad123 - Simple. Size matters in certain situations. Physically bigger people have bigger necks, bigger larynx's and usually thicker vocal cords.
RocktheStageNYC 3 weeks ago
@RocktheStageNYC Thank you for your "sane" response. Makes sense...
Kevindad123 3 weeks ago
You are a brilliant coach!
joydivided23 1 month ago
@joydivided23 - Thanks!
RocktheStageNYC 1 month ago
i sing country that is why sls has been so helpful. just read where this video clearly says that. sorry. let me stop being a pest and say ROCK ON!!!!
ronaldo101000 1 month ago
@ronaldo101000 - Yes SLS is good for the lighter style of singing like Country, Jazz, light Pop, R&B etc. but if you want the big sound of Rock or Metal you need a classical technique approach. Its the ONLY way to achieve that deep, dark sound.
RocktheStageNYC 1 month ago
you are very articulate. but if i have a choice you or seth riggs...i'll take riggs
anyday of the week. oh by the way singers that speech level arent all thin
Ray charles and stevie wonder!! you must love the dude from queensrythe
ronaldo101000 1 month ago
@ronaldo101000 - How many times must I say this to you SLS people? Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson were NOT taught to sing using SLS. They went to Riggs to learn how maintain their voices on tour. Riggs claims them as "students" which is completely misleading. Those artists were taught classical technique early in their careers and knew how to sing properly. But they never had proper warm up or maintenance routines (lacking in classical teaching), Riggs gave them that.
RocktheStageNYC 1 month ago
@thoughtless01ya - I think you refer to my vibrato. Vibrato happens naturally when there is little or no tension in the voice. If you are pushing in any sense in the throat to make sound come out, vibrato will be near impossible to do gently, tight or widely spaced out.
To fix your problem, you'll need to learn to support your voice from the body better and get the vocal cords to relax.
RocktheStageNYC 1 month ago
Great stuff! This lesson was actually liberating for me:)
thebeckoningband 1 month ago
Hi, I agreed with u. I was contemplating about the sacrificial of power too. I'm a beginner in both classical & SLS methods. Right now I'm still doing SLS, because I can't find an alternative to prevent voice-breaking when we glide through the pitches. So, I think we have to sacrifice some power if we want comfort... It's about choices. :)
singworshiplove 2 months ago
I heard that really skilled singers can control their dynamics and tone. In other words, they can make their voice sound thin and weak in some parts of the song but also make them deep and loud if they wanted to. Will classical techniques teach people to do both?
Jeon1958able 2 months ago
@Jeon1958able - Yes there is classical technique called "messa voce" or "half voice" which is a technique to learn how to control the volume and intensity of your voice. To "swell" your voice. Tone control is done by manipulating support, throat space and larynx position.
RocktheStageNYC 2 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC sorry to bother, it's "mezza voce"... it's italian :)
elenatraina 1 month ago
@elenatraina - actually its spelled "messa" and one can say it as messa voce or messa di voce. It all depends on if you speak newer or older form of Italian.
RocktheStageNYC 1 month ago
@RocktheStageNYC
Ciao!
Well... I am italian, and I studied a bit of classical singing.
Theese are the correct words: "mezza voce" is "half voice": it is a not-totally-full voice (u can imagine it as a soft mix), sweet, useful for "piano" or to achieve some delicate emotional effects. Messa di voce is another thing: litterally it means "putting the voice" (in the right spaces), and usually it refers dynamic variation from pianissimo to fortussimo to pianissimo on the same note..
ancxjo 1 month ago
@ancxjo - the spelling and usage "messa" or "messa di" depend on who you ask. Older people say one thing, younger Italians say another.
Look at Pt. 1 of the video on "How to Sing Bel Canto" with Pavarotti, Sutherland and Horne. Marilyn Horne asks Pavarotti this very question about the usage of the term "Messa Di Voce".
RocktheStageNYC 1 month ago
@RocktheStageNYC
The technical meaning of "messa di voce" is disputed.
What I pointed out is that, in italian, "messa" and "mezza" are two totally different words.
"Messa" = (substantive) the effect of putting something somwer
"Mezza" = (adjective) half
(to be continued)
ancxjo 3 weeks ago
(continuing)
"Messa voce" means nothing, and it is a grammatical mistake, because the substantive "messa" requires the proposition "di" (of, in order to indicate what is putted somwhere).
So, only "messa di voce" can mean something.
Its direct meaning is "putting of the voice". What that means, in the fiel of vocal technique, is another problem (that is the problem disputed),
Somone argues that it means: "putting the voice in some, "right", places (resonant points?).
(to be continued)
ancxjo 3 weeks ago
(continuing)
so its meaning would be the same of "impostazione" (impostare la voce = literally, put the voice in some places - "posti")
Other argues that it could mean: put the voice in existence, so it could mean that the singers stars from pianissimo, and then he/she gives existence to his/her voice.
"Mezza" is a totally different word. It never was an ancient equivalent of "messa".
"Mezza" menas "half", so "mezza voce" means literally "half voice". (to be continued)
ancxjo 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
ancxjo 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
(continuing)
its techincal meaning is far less disputed of that of "messa di voce".
In fact, "meZZa voce" is generally used to speak about a "not totally full", quite low volume, smooth voice emission.
Great "mezze voci" (half voices) were made by Beniamino Gigli...
ancxjo 3 weeks ago
I like your opinion, its great! I also read some of the comments, and noticed how many people "defend" this sls. So let me give one more example: Michael Bolton, 58yr old, still kicking with good sounding voice and high notes, and he's a classically trained singer wihtout a doubt. At least he knows how to sing notes above high C and still sound like a man!
iCrooner89 2 months ago
@iCrooner89 - SLS has a sort of "cult following" in many respects. While I don't day SLS is useless but if you want to sound big and powerful in your upper belt range SLS simply doesn't cut it. Nor does the TVS approach. Its too light between Middle C and male High C.
RocktheStageNYC 2 months ago
@iCrooner89 Actually, Michael Bolton does SLS too. He's (WAS) one of Seth Rigg's students and is even in Rigg's Singing for the Stars book. I do agree that he sounds GREAT though! (Even at his age) :D
mountveggie 2 months ago
@mountveggie - A lot of Seth's "celebrity students" were not taught by him initially. They all came to him to learn how to maintain their voices on tour, how to warm up and warm down etc. Even with SLS training, some of them have had vocal problems anyway.
RocktheStageNYC 2 months ago
Was wondering what style is best for learning vibrato? Just curious...I do feel tiny pulses in my diaphragm when doing vibrato along with vibrations in my throat...Was wondering if you could make a video helping us out with vibrato
megajohn01 2 months ago
@megajohn01 - vibrato is really associated with a style but if you are talking about a "type" of vibrato there are a few - throat, mouth and stomach. Mouth and stomach are the most unpleasant to listen to and hardest to control. Throat vibrato is a slight oscillation or back & forth sliding of the two notes very quickly.
Vibrato can ONLY happen when the voice is not tense in anyway. If you have tension, vibrato does not work.
RocktheStageNYC 2 months ago
Excuse me, Kelly Clarkson?! Natalie Cole?! Do you think those are thin voices?! SLS my friend. And by the time you're hitting high Cs and Ds, am pretty sure the audience will run out if you try to hit em with a "broad, loud" voice.
relaxedrebel08 2 months ago
@relaxedrebel08 - Natalie Cole was not taught to SING by an SLS coach, neither was Kelly Clarkson. They both had classical training in their younger years and used SLS later to learn how to warm up and maintain their voice for live performance on tour.
I have yet to find anyone who can name me someone who was SLS TRAINED from scratch that has a big voice in the upper mix.
RocktheStageNYC 2 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC Kelly Clarkson had actually gotten a nodule after belting after American Idol (which was due to "classical" method) and only once she went into SLS training was she able to hit those notes with power, without straining her voice. Natalie Cole, herself admitted she wasn't able to hit those notes aggressively without hurting herself before SLS.
See, SLS doesn't change the way you sing, it only helps you do it without straining your voice.
relaxedrebel08 2 months ago
@relaxedrebel08 - Clarkson's nodule was attributed to her overworking her voice without a proper warm up and cool down. (I know her original vocal coach).
You make my point. All they did was learn how to not "push" every night. To back away from using too much pressure. They still used their underlying classical techniques to sound big otherwise. Classical, if taught correctly, teaches you to free your voice from strain by proper support without pressure in the throat.
RocktheStageNYC 2 months ago
@relaxedrebel08 - In addition, SLS is basically designed as a "damage control" system of techniques. The problem is, SLS lacks any sort of open throat or proper diaphragmatic support. Its backs away from sub glottal pressure too much. This results in laryngeal singing where you blend to a light mix and a create a thin upper range.
SLS will change the way you sing. I've seen over & over with my students. I have to teach them to stop singing with their laryngeal muscles so much.
RocktheStageNYC 2 months ago
@relaxedrebel08 - your second point makes no sense - who hits high Cs & Ds with a broad, loud voice? Only those untrained in proper vocal technique. No one with vocal technique, either classical or SLS will hit a C5 or D5 with a wide sound.
RocktheStageNYC 2 months ago
@relaxedrebel08 - Third point - Keith Urban now has to have vocal surgery - another SLS singer - who is actually promoted on Singing Success's website. You really don't hear about classical singers (professional one's anyway) having throat surgery for nodules.
RocktheStageNYC 2 months ago
Also, thank you for all of the videos you've made. I want to buy Breaking The Chains whenever I get the money.
ElleCaszatt 3 months ago
I really want to know how to add some distortion in my voice. Not like growling/screaming...but more of actual singing with some edge in it. Jacoby Shaddix is an excellent example of someone who sings like that but doesn't over use it. I've looked everywhere and can't find anyone who shows how to do it. How to layer that with your natural voice. One of the guys from SingingSuccess said something about it but they just want money and don't really teach anything in their 'free tip' videos.
ElleCaszatt 3 months ago
@ElleCaszatt buy Break the Chains, you'll learn how to do a few things, including vocal fry that help you have an edgy sound without being screamy or raspy.
Rosannasfriend 3 months ago
@Ylyenne - Octave range is not about support but flexibility of the voice and the ability to thin the voice. 99% of appoggio singers are opera/classical singers and therefore are not concerned with more than 3 octaves as more is not needed for males in that genre (you can get away with 2 octaves in opera) Appoggio is just a means to balance the voice. Adding chest resonance to upper notes is about your tonality not support. Dividing the voice into registers WILL fragment your voice.
RocktheStageNYC 3 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC Just wondering what you general theory on the voice is. Meaning is it more of a capacity (as in a muscular/structural conditioning) or a coordination thing. Kind of like getting good at throwing darts (coordination) versus the bench press (capacity). Obviously, that is very simplified, because a requisite capacity for achieving a particular skill will always exist. I guess I'm wondering which of the two is the most common limiting factor between singing levels.
Polarcupcheck 2 months ago
@Polarcupcheck - The most common limiting factor between singing levels is dedication to the art of practicing your craft. The level of skill you acquire in anything is a combination of natural ability and sheer determination to get better. The greatest tool in creating a great voice is the power of the mind. It sounds simplistic but all your abilities, fears and limitations live in your mind. They can either motivate you or hold you back. The body follows the brain.
RocktheStageNYC 2 months ago
@Ylyenne - Appoggio technique is basically what I am advocating here. "Intercostal diaphragmatic support" like Enrico Caruso and Luciano Pavarotti. I was turned onto this technique through the book "Caruso and the art of singing" by his vocal coach Salvatore Fucito and Maestro Franco Tennelli. I had heard about this technique for years but never fully understood it until 2-3 years ago. I always used proper support but using the more refined appoggio technique has really made my voice powerful
RocktheStageNYC 3 months ago
hello! i have a question :)
in years i developed head, mix,belt, etc but i have a problem that is that around a year ago i got stucked on D5 (i was increasing slowly my range but suddenly i kept stucked on that note until now!)
i dont know why i cant go with my head voice more high than that note!
another thing is that i am just between a low tenor and a high bari but on falsetto i always have that same note D5 as my top note too,so i think i am makin the same mistake in both falsetto and head!
89gerardo 5 months ago
Kevin, do you think the use of vocal fry as an exercise will damage the voice (nodules)? Is it unusually risky to use? I see some people promoting it as a way to learn to reduce tension, and then others are bashing Manning for recommending it as a warm-up due to supposedly being dangerous.
Polarcupcheck 5 months ago
@Polarcupcheck - saying Vocal Fry is dangerous is pure nonsense and perpetrated by uninformed on modern vocal technique classical singers. Vocal Fry is actually very good at getting the vocal cords back in shape after a cold. Its a sort of semi-occluded phonation similar to lip rolls or humming.
They are a great way to learn how to sing from low to high without breaking. Unfortunately. Manning places a little too much emphasis on it in certain parts of his training.
RocktheStageNYC 5 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC Do you think there are any instances (maybe what they call fry-screaming) in which a particular fry technique would be bad? Like one article stated they didn't like the idea of using it while the larynx would rise, but a lower larynx was useful. Goes on to say it is good in small doses, maybe just a little bit (few minutes) each day to warm up. I read that Blatt liked the technique for reducing tension and breathy qualities.
Polarcupcheck 5 months ago
@Polarcupcheck - I use vocal fry every day in my warm up for the past 20 years - no ill effects. Like falsetto, it is an affectation - a vocal trick and should be used sparingly. Fry screaming is over the long term bad for you but that fad has come & gone. I don't see people still fry screaming 10 years from now.
Fry is a great tool to learn how to increase range without tension amd get the cords closing instead of falsetto. In the end you have to exert air pressure and get the cords together
RocktheStageNYC 5 months ago
SPEECH LEVEL SINGING doesn't mean "SING LIKE YOU SPEAK", you should learn a little bit about the technique before speaking about something you don't know.. And also u should take a look at the list of SLS singers.. Listen to them first.. Classical Technique?.... please..
MrDexter000 5 months ago
@MrDexter000 - SLS does mean sing like you speak. Its damage control so singing has the same ease as speech. I know what I'm talking about seeing that I've was singing professionally before you were born.
show me the list of "supposed SLS singers" who started from scratch in SLS technique. Or did they come to the technique later in their careers to save their voices. I know you want to stump out names like Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles etc. Same old story.
RocktheStageNYC 5 months ago
Hi there! I've been following you since some time ago. Any news about "I wanna rock"?
samurai1993 5 months ago
@samurai1993 - I Wanna Rock is being put together very carefully. Its going to be a vocal program like no other ever done before. Breaking the Chains will also be re-done this new way down the line.
RocktheStageNYC 5 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC Sweet. I bought Breaking the Chains to see the exercises, but I'm having a hard time with no previous experience in singing, nothing wrong with it, I was expecting that because of my inexperience. I'm doing them slowly and lightly anyway, until I Wanna Rock comes out. Salutes and thanks for all your helpful material!
samurai1993 5 months ago
@samurai1993 - concentrate on CD 1 for a few months and chart your progress by recording yourself at several week intervals.
RocktheStageNYC 5 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC Will those who purchased the original Breaking the Chains get the new Breaking the Chains complimentary, or perhaps at a significantly reduced price?
AtariMaxiToriyama 4 months ago
@AtariMaxiToriyama - there won't be a new BTC for quite some time. All I am doing is updating a couple of files that were released with the wrong scales.
RocktheStageNYC 4 months ago
once i heard this gay talking on the mall , and he sounded really akward like a trumphet, and i said to myself , there is no way he could ever sing in his speaking voice , so i realized that not anyone can sing in their speaking voices.
acidtania 5 months ago
@acidtania - your speaking voice is always present somewhat in your singing voice but they can sound very different. There are mnay examples of people who speak one way and sing another way and you'd never know they were the same person.
RocktheStageNYC 5 months ago
hey Kevin! I'm enjoying your Breaking the Chains course which I bought last week! Great stuff so far. I have one issue though, I don't know what phonation is and there's no definition given before teaching us that we should coordinate that with our breathing. I feel a bit stuck on that, so can you just tell me a definition? I hope that's an appropriate question to ask here, sorry. :)))
Rosannasfriend 6 months ago
@Rosannasfriend hey! I got the answer just after I bothered you. Its all good, lol.
Rosannasfriend 6 months ago
@Rosannasfriend In all simplified means, phonation is simply the art of making sound through vibrations. You are phonating when you speak, laugh, sing and so forth.
KurogetsuOokami 6 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami yeah, that's what I have read since I asked the question. I understand it now, but thanks anyway. I really love these lessons, and I'm glad I don't have to spend $400 to get 3 months of lessons.
Rosannasfriend 6 months ago
@Rosannasfriend - "An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin.
Considering the fact that most voice coaches in NYC charge anywhere from $105-$300 an hour, $400 for 3 months of vocal training is a steal.
NOTHING can replace the benefits of personal instruction from a competent voice coach. Nothing,
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC alright. I guess I'll still go. That was the original plan anyway, I just got my hopes up, lol.
Rosannasfriend 6 months ago
Hi! It shows you know a lot, but is a shame that those who do not speak the language do not understand it. I think it would be nice if you include subtitles (in English) at least relevant parts, so you can put the machine translation. It's just a humble suggestion. Your videos are great! Good luck, goodbye.
hardsap 6 months ago
@hardsap - the fact that I'm giving away golden vocal instruction aren't enough, now I have to add subs?
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago 5
I have done the mum, mum, mums and the nay, nay,nays but even if i could do them up until G above male high C made me feel unconnected in my body which may work without a microphone in pop and jazz and softmusic, but I want to sing a for real fortissimo that is impressive without any gadgets, dynamics in the range and an open sound is much more important then high whistle tones and a thin voice!
Bjoerrelli 6 months ago
Total bullshit!!!!
CircusNormal 6 months ago
I have a tips which works for me! If you are familiar with the nay, nay, nay exercise from Riggs and Manning and feel a little mousy and tight in the throat doing that exercise, watch Kevins video on powerful high mixed voice and take the Eh sound with the toungue sticking out from that exercise and do the nays on Ng instead of N with the toungue outside the mouth and the mousy tone will hopefully dissapear. Ps Watch the jaw carefully so it´s relaxed otherwise unwanted tension comes along.
Bjoerrelli 6 months ago
i have to agree , at the begining , SLS, seemed just nice , it made sense to me , but now i want to sing with more power and i can´t do that with what brett has tought me , i can´t wait to get "breaking the chains , , i hope im ready to that
" , i have loved all of your advices Kevin thank you so much , you rock!!
acidtania 6 months ago
@acidtania I ordered and got mine last week! Great so far!
Rosannasfriend 6 months ago
interesting comments :)
beneio 6 months ago
Kevin, excellent lesson. I learned a lot.
BarkeyBear 6 months ago
This I have to agree with Kevin on the many SLS teachers are closed minded (I used to be the same) due to the fact that they always talk shit about other types of training. I have had many SLS coaches, and because this; they made me think for the longest time that SLS was the only way to sing. SLS causes students to relax way too much, therefore lack of power. Not until I checked out Jaimie Vendera with his opera approach, i have to say I have more power in my range then any Brett manning/SLS.
thienfoil 6 months ago
@thienfoil - SLS has obtained an almost "cult" like devotion to it by a lotof it practicioners and coaches. I am getting some of them commenting under this video. Its like I'm attacking their version of Scientology.
Speech Level Singing is by its own definition, "damage control". The nasty side effect of all this "damage control" is the voice being stripped of any fullness, roundness, depth or projection power. Manning's approach differs from Rigg's in many ways but still strips away depth.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@mrlguk - if you don't care about my opinion why do you keep posting. get the fuck off my channel. Banned.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago 9
@cwehden - what the fuck are you talking about? I have been singing for 20 years and have sung for crowds of 13,000 people - I have NO fear of sounding bad or being judged. I'm taking crap from you aren't I?
Lets face it - you have NO IDEA who I am, what I have done and what I teach my students.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@cwehden - I am a bass/baritone. I speak higher and louder for the camera. My normal voice is very heavy and low.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@mrlguk - There is nothing illegal about teaching some SLS techniques. Is there a copyright on a lip roll or tongue trill? How about "Nay Nay Nay" or "Go Go Go"? Did someone trademark the English language now? Man you SLS cultists really take the cake.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC Hang on one minute, SLS releases the upper registers by reducing the larynx instead of stretching it like classical. How does this "create damage," exactly?
KurogetsuOokami 6 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - I'm not sure what classical approach you know but I've never heard of any technique that "stretches" the larynx. Bel Canto teaches a neutral larynx just like SLS. SLS maintains a smaller acoustical space in the throat. Over time this damages the voice by pinching the sound out of the vocal folds.
explain how a classical approach "stretches" the larynx? (This should be interesting).
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC It will be, indeed. I am not particularly sure if this pertains to classical or other techniques.
The larynx is stretched out in these certain techniques, giving you this sort of "way" into your higher registers. SLS reduces the size of the larynx to give more "mobility" and therefore, more room (analogy of height of some sort) to sing in, ultimately allowing you to sing in the upper registers easier, rather than stretching it to increase range.
Your thoughts?
KurogetsuOokami 6 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - You have terminology mixed up. Larynx & pharynx. They are different things. The larynx is a large entity which contains numerous muscles and the vocal folds. The Pharynx is your throat.
No technique "reduces" or "stretches" the size of the larynx but you can stretch/reduce the size of the pharynx. I think this is where you're confused with what SLS does physically. SLS closes the pharynx in upper ranges to activate a lot of "twang". Bel Canto opens the pharynx.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC That may be it, but there's another thing, Kevin. What's the "twang" anyway?
Like you state in the video, SLS thins out the voice and that allows singers to sing higher easier, rather than the full-voice approach. I know this because I've done Brett's stuff and it really does let you do so a lot easier than going in with that giant sound.
KurogetsuOokami 6 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - Oh boy if you don't know what "twang" is then I was right about your lack of a complete understanding of what SLS and classical techniques actually accomplish. In SLS they call "twang" a pharyngeal sound. Brett refers to it a lot in "Mastering Mix". Its a squeezing of the pharynx to create an edgy overtone that allows the resonance to rise into the head. SLS does too much pharyngeal squeezing whereas classical uses pharyngeal but in much smaller amounts to avoid nasality.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC Well I know that, I just didn't know what sense you meant it in; the context. I was rather caught off guard by the word, and was scrambling to find its meaning, especially since you placed it inside "" marks. Yes, SLS does do that, in fact, to strengthen the thin voices, and by any means it's perfect for pop and soul singers who want a little emphasis on particular notes.
KurogetsuOokami 6 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - Part 2: SLS thins out the voice - too much. Pharyngeal is essential to get the resonance in the head but SLS relies on it too much and the throat space becomes too narrow as you enter upper frequencies.
To create depth and fullness to the voice, the throat has to remain more open and relaxed. I don't like the overly dark sound of a classical voice, so I advocate an approach somewhere between that and the overly pharyngeal SLS sound. This creates a more balanced tone.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC So you approach the higher frequencies--how? By slowly working into higher notes one at a time? I know that works well but it just takes too bloody long.
I'm not an SLS cultist like you say, rather, taking a side that works for me. The pharyngeal "ng" sound does indeed, do what you say. However, as I go higher, I reach the end of my chest voice and once I enter mix voice and into my head voice, it just narrows again. Probably because of muscle memory, yes?
KurogetsuOokami 6 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - I worked into my higher notes in an unusual manner. I used very long and drawn out vocalises that forced me to draw out my breath longer and longer. The more I had to draw breath support out, the more I had to relax and not squeeze the throat. The "round" or "long" scale used a lot by Manning is a great one. The longer note range helped me connect my lower & upper registers in one exercise. I also used some old classical scales. Some of them are in my vocal course.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - oh forgot to mention. I use mainly the vowel sound of "awe" like in the word "lawn". This is the Italian way of saying "aah". This sound, to me, has elements of both dark and bright tones. Its a somewhat neutral tone, neither too heavy or too light.
SLS also uses that "Nay" sound which is beyond annoying, but I rather like the "Mum" & "Go" sounds. They can be used to give the voice depth if used with solid breath support. Unfortunately SLS doesn't stress support that much.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC Answer my question, Kevin, i know about SLS's vocal exercises. I use them daily, the "nay" is only temporary to help the cords connect, a fix for those who breaks into falsetto in their upper registers. Apparently "kay" and, oddly, "gay" does the same thing as well. Any "n" or "k" or "g" sound does this.
KurogetsuOokami 6 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - actually "Nay" is used to activate pharyngeal placement, its not very good at keeping cord closure unless you really lean on the "N". Exercise sounds like "Go", "Gug", "Coo" are actually better at activating cord closure with a bit more compression. Things like "Mum" and "Nuh" are used to tame a rising larynx.
Exercises using "K", "N", "G" and "V" are well know within old Bel Canto. "Gee Ya" is a classic example.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC It is better to note that the dopey "booh" is more efficient for a rising larynx, plus more cord compression and a fix for those who opens up their faces for higher notes. Typically, I find the "mum" more tempting to open the vowels and stuff because of its lighter sound, and the "buh" strictly works in that area.
KurogetsuOokami 6 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC But you once talked about how babies could scream and yell all day without any ill effects. I thought we were training our voices to do EXACTLY what it was designed to do.
AtariMaxiToriyama 7 months ago
@AtariMaxiToriyama - Training it to do vocal gymnastics likes scales, runs, weird pharyngeal exercises are not natural to human speech or communication. We are hard wired to make sound, in a VERY simple way.
Fortunately for us humans, the larynx is an amazing instrument that can adapt that kind of finite control. But physically that's not what they are designed to do. Your larynx is really designed to act as a pressure valve for the body so we have leverage to lift, pull and push things.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - I didn't mean to imply you are a troll looking to stir up trouble. I apologize if it came across that way.
You like the SLS technique and that is fine. For me SLS is really only practical for warm ups and learning to sing softly with a full tone. Manning's stuff is brilliant if you're not a Rock/Hard Rock/Metal singer.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - How many times do I have to say this before you get it? I am NOT saying SLS doesn't have its benefits nor am I saying the classical approach is 100% correct either.
What I am saying in this video is that if you want to create a big and powerful voice suitable for Rock/Hard Rock/Metal singing (which is what I teach) you gotta lean more towards the classical approach. SLS simple won't do that for you.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
ok so I've been going through a self vocal exercise course for the past 7 or 8 months without really being able to find that powerful mix voice that I wanted...well been practicing this and the tongue out eh exercise for the past week and I already have access to a powerful mix...I still need to work on it, but the feeling is amazing...and its my birthday tom...so thanks for the great birthday present :p I guess this method was what was best for me, and of course the months of training helped
JamesCrow22 7 months ago
Let me pose this question - which A4 would you rather have - one like Tom Jones / Eric Adams (classically trained) or one like Brett Manning (SLS trained)?
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC A powerful voice is not all that is present. What a singer needs is specific instructions that lead them to experimenting on their own, and SLS does this. Series of exercises that do tons of things, like vocal fry, hums, lip rolls, all simplify how the voice works. None of this is present in classical. By lowering the volume as we ascend, this adds flexibility and smoothness to the voice, something classical doesn't have, since all they do is focus on range and power, obviously.
KurogetsuOokami 7 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - you don't understand the classical approach at all. Hums and lip rolls ARE in classical training (at least in the 20th century). It does not purely focus on range and power unless you are training just to be a loud and high opera singer. Classical technique mainly focuses on tonality and balance of the resonances.
The key to high notes is NOT backing off volume but balancing air pressure and covering the tone to keep from yelling or being shrill.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
I still dont understand why so many SLS teachers criticize classical styles so much while artists like Kelly clarkson, Josh Groban, and michael Bolton are all classically train and they are very good singers.
thienfoil 7 months ago
@thienfoil - Because classical pedagogy is the standard by which all others are judged. SLS teachers compete with classical teachers for students - especially here in New York City - so tearing it down is in their financial best interest.
Its actually ironic that they criticize classical technique because according to Seth Riggs "SLS" is an offshoot of the ultimate in classical technique - Bel Canto.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
@mrlguk - SLS is a buzzword that barely competent teachers use to attract unknowing students so of course you will see 000's of coaches jump on the bandwagon. I live in NYC, the home of Broadway and The Metropolitan Opera House. You will not find any successful, working Broadway singer who uses SLS technique. They are ALL classically trained.
You are completely missing my point in this video. To create a BIG and POWERFUL voice suitable for singing Rock & Metal, steer clear of SLS.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC yes all my students are idiots that I attract in to teach them rubbish and thin voices. Erm, there are plenty of broadway singers that use SLS, just because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean they don't exist, Taylor Sternberg, Sutton Foster (Tony award winner), Christy Tarr, all used SLS and performed on Broadway. The only thing to steer clear of is the crap you are spreading
mrlguk 7 months ago
@mrlguk - oops you steeped in it there. I personally know Sutton Foster and her husband Christian (also a Broadway singer) and neither of them trained with SLS. Both are classically trained.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC Hahahaha! Classic! Guess it helps to know people!
AtariMaxiToriyama 4 months ago
he is not a tenor, clearly he is a baritone!
and hey haters, stop. i have learned so many things from this channel, so if you are bored go and watch tv or practice singing, have fun.. but you are insulting when we are all lovers of the same thing, we love to sing and we have to support us to that we always can go to the NEXT LEVEL!.. damn.. any way i have a question! i could use SLS as a warm up while i am focused on more classical techniques ? or definitely i have to choose? thanks!
89gerardo 7 months ago
@89gerardo - I'm actually a bass/baritone by nature. I had to train for many years to create a tenor type tone and range. Actually my range goes into the soprano range in full voice - up to D6 on a good day.
But you are right.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
'We want to stay away from Laryngeal type singing' How do you make sound without coordinating the Larynx? YOU CAN'T IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!
cwehden 7 months ago
@cwehden - "laryngeal singing" is when you are more using muscular control than breath support to carry the voice. An over manipulation of the muscles surrounding the larynx is counter-productive. We are all born knowing how to make sound, raise/lower pitch, be quiet or loud. We made sound as babies/children through breath support & a relaxed throat. SLS is NOT how we were born making sound. Why try to teach your brain to make sound a different way? It doesn't make sense.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
@cwehden - Rule? because this is Rock technique and that requires a fuller soudning voice. The channel name is "Rock the Stage". If you want that big rock sound you won't get it with SLS.
Incorrect. Fullness has everything to do with technique and how you create undertones and lower formants. Its not a "result" of good technique. You have to train that fullness, it's not a by product of technique. It IS a technique.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC All I will say is from your comments I know that you have very little understanding of SLS. The ideas you are talking about go much deeper than you seem to realize and as a result you focus on the surface details and ignore the foundation. SLS does not produce a 'type' of voice it simply addresses the voice on a functional level, how you develop that is a choice. Plenty of rock singers have light voices, the best example being probably Glenn Hughes.
cwehden 7 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC You know, Mr. Kevin, I have always accepted your statement that SLS will not create powerful voices for rock and metal, but I have seen the videos on the channel wherein rock singers and gospel singers and pop singers alike demonstrate incredible control and power.
I am caught between blindly agreeing with you, and blindly agreeing with my untrained ears.
AtariMaxiToriyama 4 months ago
@AtariMaxiToriyama - Ah but were those Rock & Gospel people trained in SLS from the beginning or did they come to it later to save their voices from tension & fatigue? A lot of people have well rounded and powerful voices naturally but never learned how to maintain it. So they seek training to save their voices. Modern singers tend to shy away from classical coaches so who's left? SLS coaches. All they do is show them how to NOT damage their already powerful voices. Stevie, Michael etc.
RocktheStageNYC 4 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - I did not say SLS is ineffective. It just does not produce big, full voices like classical training does.
Seth Riggs takes credit for teaching Stevie Wonder & Michael Jackson how to sing. Too bad its a lie. Both of them already had great voices and had been singing for decades before they met Seth. They came to him to learn how to keep their voices on long tours.
Explain how classical does not offer power & consistency.
Manning would NEVER say SLS is better than classical
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
I'm a baritone and i enjoy singing Mark Boals (yngwie) and my voice gets tired easily but i can do the notes. This video is what i'm doing wrong and should be doing right. thanks for helping. its making a difference
mightytreasure 7 months ago
@mightytreasure - gotta love Mark Boals. Fantastic singer. A great, classically trained voice. I too could do very high notes prior to proper training but I tired after 40min. Now I can sing for 4 hours without tiring or feeling any tension. Open throat and lots of breath compression makes all the difference.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami I have trained classical and have the singing success program. You can increase your range and get a sound suited for pop and Rnb with speech level training. But if you want to sing harder stuff that requires more throatspace and support you get limited by speechlevel training. Just listen to Manning and Riggs own singing and then go to Kevin Richards,Ken tamplin or if you like classical singing Franco tenelli and listen to how they sound and you will hear a difference.
Bjoerrelli 7 months ago
@Bjoerrelli - exactly. SLS is good for lighter singing styles like Pop, R&B, Country - but if you want to sing Rock, Hard Rock or Metal you gotta lean more towards the classical approach. Its more intense training than SLS.
SLS is fantastic if you have a lot of tension when singing. Its great for relieving tension. But once you free up that tension go for the open throat, breath compression approach and develop a much fuller tone.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
hello!! you know if is possible to use both techniques or i have to choose one?
89gerardo 7 months ago
@89gerardo - you can use both techniques for different purposes. SLS is really good for warm ups and relieving tension in the throat, but if you want a BIG sound you have to go with the open throat, heavy breath support of classical techniques.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
@89gerardo You literally cannot use both techniques together. One is very straightforward, the other is very complex and clever. Classical technique deals with simplicity, and how to sing freely. But this technique says you have to use breath support, which simply means, breath harder, and push. With SLS, this is eliminated, and it deals with using cord coordinations to simplify singing. I've been using SLS primarily, and it's working wonders. Classical doesn't work for me, not one bit.
KurogetsuOokami 7 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - Not so. Even SLS calls for breath support, just not as much. In classical you are NOT pushing or breathing harder, you are breathing smarter by compressing at the abdomen. This is the way we were all born making sound.
SLS complicates the process and uses laryngeal control. This is not how you were born making sound. Laryngeal singing creates thin voices. Breath compression adds mass naturally at the vocal folds creating more undertones and a fuller tonality.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC Evidently, yes, you need good breath support to sing well, in all techniques.
In classical, the idea of a "stiff" diaphragm is strongly believed. Although it works, personally it's not that effective either. Classical follows the rule that singing must be relaxed, yet by lowering the jaw for every freaking high note, you meddle with that rule.
SLS is a much faster and more reliable method. Its exercises simplifies everything. Many youngsters sing R&B and pop, anyway.
KurogetsuOokami 7 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - I was never taught to lower the jaw for high notes. In fact that would my diminish deep breath support for those notes.
SLS is not simpler, in fact it complicates the process of singing by over manipulation of the laryngeal musculature. Its counter to how you are born making sound. In singing technique there is no such thing as a "quick & easy fix".
I am talking about creating big Rock voices. You cannot get that with SLS.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC In my case, that's exactly what my former teacher taught me to do, and of course, I canceled the lessons immediately. That proves that some teachers do know what they talk about, and some don't, while she keeps going on about her 48 years of singing. Sounds great, but rubbish.
The results are more evident and require less work, at least for me. I did not say it was a "quick & easy fix." I merely intended to say that it takes less time to work out, rather than classical.
KurogetsuOokami 7 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami Furthermore, it does mess with how we naturally breath, but every singing technique does that one way or another. In order to lower the larynx for a commercial sound, you had to keep it steady, yes? If we sing naturally, the larynx goes up and becomes tight, making our voices shake and crack. We had to tweak it to make it easier, and so the same mechanism applies to SLS. As for Rock voices, yes, SLS is not designed for heavy styles but it does make singing effortless in the end.
KurogetsuOokami 7 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - if you sing naturally your larynx does NOT have to rise at all. Babies do it all day without fatigue or hoarsness.
Babies do not make sound with an SLS technique - its closer to a classical approach.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC Really? When people start out singing, isn't that called "natural?" Since they didn't have any work on their voice yet. And they push their chin forward and draw their soft palate down, and their sound comes out really dull.
Will you let go of the babies thing? It does not compensate with what we are speaking of, and it hinders the purpose. I appreciate you acknowledging me as not a fool, but you're not taking what I'm explaining to a good extent.
KurogetsuOokami 6 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - who says an untrained person juts their chin forward, drops the palate and makes a dull sound naturally? Thats just silly and an over generalization. I have taught 8 year olds who had wonderful, resonant and beautifully toned voices without ever taking a vocal lesson. 100% natural.
The baby analogy is 100% sound. How we are born making sound is simple and direct. SLS and Classical techniques mess with that simplicity. For me, SLS messes with it more.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@KurogetsuOokami - I am not here to be convinced by you or make you convert to my point of view. "SLS cultists" like yourself are too inflexible in your thinking.
My point is simple - SLS and Classical are neither the perfect technique. But if you want a big, powerful voice for singing Rock/Hard Rock and Metal - lean towards classical technique.
End of debate. Leave another comment and you will be banned.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC Again how do you make sound without coordinating the muscles in the larynx? YOU CAN"T, your term 'Laryngeal singing' MAKES NO SENSE!
cwehden 7 months ago
@cwehden - read a book and you'll understand what laryngeal singing is.
RocktheStageNYC 6 months ago
It's funny how all these things get said by people that don't really understand SLS at all. As cwehden said, what about Stevie Wonder, Luther Vandross and Michael Jackson, Anne Lennox? Are you going turn around and say Michael Jackson and Stevie Wonder had weak thin voice? SLS does and can build resonant voices big voices. As with everything in life, people have different ways of doing things, and no surprise that when it comes to vocal teaching and lessons, everyone's an expert!
mrlguk 7 months ago
@mrlguk - Wrong. I am an expert. I am VERY well versed in SLS technique. I teach some of it to my students to relieve tension. I am tired of SLS people bringing up Riggs & Stevie, Luther, Michael. Its a misnomer. Stevie and Michael were not beginners when they met Riggs. They were already successful, career singers before being taught by Seth Riggs. Riggs boasts like he taught them to sing as kids which isn't true. All All he did was teach them how to maintain their voices on the road.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
@mrlguk actually, as much as I love their voices, they do not have really full, rich sounds at all. They are powerful, agile, and with great ranges, but not full thick voices. I think Luther had a technique closer to the classical sound, and then added SLS to reduce tension and some of that other stuff that SLS does.
Rosannasfriend 7 months ago
@mrlguk Eric Arcenaux is another youtube voice teacher, and his voice is good, but has an awful, nasally timbre and very thin sound. I am glad I found Kevin, cause his voice is MILES better, and his lessons have helped me over the last two years more than any other teacher I have watched or met. So, does he know that much about SLS? Maybe not. But I still trust him on most things about voice more than anyone else. The proof is in the RESULTS, and I"ve had them!
Rosannasfriend 7 months ago
@cwehden The problem is that being able to sing ppp up until FFF with an open throat is much more important then light heady notes and whistle tone. Compare David Phelps with Wes Hampton one can sing full sounding notes open and vibrant and one has a nice tenor voice but no strong forte or fortissimo at all! But if you are pleased with a decent mezzoforte in your voice then speechlevel is the way to go! Seth Riggs voice is very similar to Mr Mannings alot of notes with little projection or power
Bjoerrelli 7 months ago
@Bjoerrelli There are many SLS singers with great power other than Billy. You claim that SLS n SS singers have no power and are thin, but seem to ignore singers like Luther Vandross?! Stevie Wonder? How can you call these singers weak and thin?
cwehden 7 months ago
@cwehden I have never heard that Luther Vandross is trained by Seth Riggs. I´ve heard that Michael Bolton´s been taking lessons from Mr Riggs. But as Kevin sais the hole idea of the nay, nay, nay or mom, mom, mom is to balance the voice without increasing the space in the throat and by doing so the possibility to increase the volume get´s very limited. The opposite technique to speech level would be Arturo Melocchi´s teaching which limits the range but gives a fortissimo to die for.
Bjoerrelli 7 months ago
@cwehden - They were not taught SLS as beginners. They already had big, full sounding voices before they met Seth Riggs. This is the myth Riggs has perpetuated around himself about his celebrity clients. Luther, Stevie & Michael were established artists when they met Riggs. He didn't teach them how to sing, just to maintain their voices over time.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
good tip kevin. im actually quitting brett's techniques and tryout yours and vendera
thienfoil 7 months ago
@thienfoil - I'd keep the Manning stuff around. There is some good technique in the program that teaches balanced airflow and a relaxed throat.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
Billy Duvall Jr, he is a student of Brett's if his voice isn't full then I don't know what is!
cwehden 7 months ago
@cwehden Billy sings fuller then all the other singers in the Brett stab. But he has always done that I have the SS programe and he sang very full even back then.. The problem I feel is that his twangy upper register is something he has deweloped before he met Brett. He has got a great whistle tone because of the training though. The point is Mr Duwall learned by himself maybe listening to other gospelsingers to twang the notes in his high range.
Bjoerrelli 7 months ago
@BeneSinging - remember I am a bass/baritone by nature so high notes are not as easy for me than for operatic/choral baritones or tenors. I try to avoid the classical "sound" as much as possible in my singing of songs but lean toward the sound in my vocalizing practice sessions. By overdoing it in the classical mode my contemporary mode is actually easier because its less narrow.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
what if a singer combined the sls way of singing but with a more classical like open throat? then wouldn't this solve the problem?thinning out is vary important to reach your highest note possible.now do this with an open throat and walla!
randallwaynemusic 7 months ago
@randallwaynemusic - Nope. One large hole in SLS is the fact that it denies the need for enough throat space or alteration of the vowels as a singer approaches the upper bridging area and higher range. Squeezing the spoken word function high into the upper range can put tremendous pressure on the larynx, paving the way for vocal damage.
Simply put you can't do SLS techniques with an open throat. How do you do Nay/Mum/Nuh/lip bubbles/tongue trills with an open throat? You can't.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
Finally someone dears to tell the truth! I´ve been forced to take out my video with Mr Manning singing bohemian rhapsody. I guess they couldn´t handle it! If I would name an example of openthrout singing versus speech level singing I would compare Tom Jones with Adam Lopez. Lopez may have 6 octaves but the timbre ain´t comparable with Tom Jones at all! By the way I must say say that your voice has improved since the last videos! Fuller and richer in and above the passagio, your great!
Bjoerrelli 7 months ago
@Bjoerrelli - in one of his recent videos Brett Manning addresses that Bohemian Rhapsody video and just calls it a "bad day" after consuming bad food. Well, I did a 2 hour show just 4 days after having laryngitis and didn't sound like that. Someone of his caliber of technique shouldn't sound like - ever - let alone allow himself to get up in front of people with his voice in that shape.
The Lopez/Jones comparison is spot on. Both are tenors but Jones' tone is fuller and much more powerful
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
@RocktheStageNYC If you watch Chris Keller´s recording of "Don´t stop believing" by Journey you can hear that even if he hits the notes and have a high tenor voice the long high B notes are tight in his throat. There is a video where Mr Manning shows how to get formants in the voice and there he sings louder then usual, but even if he only hits A-flats he sound strained and forced. When Tom Jones recorded the song "Thunderballl" with a long B-flat in the end it´s said that he fainted afterwards.
Bjoerrelli 7 months ago
@Bjoerrelli - Tom Jones has said he nearly fainted after that B-flat4 because the producer wanted him to hold it for so long so they could fade it out.
Chris Keller had classical voice training in college before coming to Manning so he knows about breath support. Chris has a very thin, tenor speaking voice so that's why his singing voice sounds that way, not because of tension. The guy CAN wail though. I just don't like his tone but he can't help a lot of that. Its just his natural voice.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago
Svara på det här videoklippet... Jussi Bjorling complained about an aching back due to his support or airflowcontrol. I have to be honest Bjorling´s timbre is something that Mr Manning is lighyears from, even if he can whistle with the dolphins. What you showed with your other video "powerful mix" was that opening the throat more has nothing to do with singing with a heavy Chest registratration. Even if the illusion that you do is much stronger then if you sing the speechlevel way.
Bjoerrelli 7 months ago
@Bjoerrelli - Yes its not about heavy chest singing, its about creating lower undertones and darker formants. Open, relaxed throats with balanced, focused breath support/appoggio creates those lower tones and creates a much fuller sound. Its not about pushing at all.
RocktheStageNYC 7 months ago