Some feed back as you said you wanted: if we became conscious from stuff (unconscious or partially so) then I would say that we were begotten, as some say of God. Personally I don’t buy the begotten idea for us or a God, as I see consciousness as outside the motions of things that orbit and go bump in the cosmic night.
I see the Creator as a constant moment less maker of moments.
Sorry, I had to put a long explanation into a short moment.
in being self-aware, it beckens the question of what in-fact is consciousness, which seems to give rise our self-awareness. our latest understanding our consciousness indeed places us in a very unique position position where we can no longer say that mind and matter are seperate but are more so manifestations of the same thing. and that thing is possible the essence of existence. meaning our minds are only intimately connected with reality but are within reality.
One can see it in the Abrahamic faiths quite readily. "God created man in his "[self-]reflection" (Gen 1:27). The notion of a "Jealous God" refers to man's proper orientation in service of God. Man - because he does not understand himself, is fundamentally deluded and selfish, cleverly avoids all knowledge of his proper role. Consequences of ignoring this role are manifold according as logic ("In the beginning was Logos" - John 1:1) would have it and includes "ecological collapse".
I have thought about this a lot and would like to point you to "The Self-Aware Universe" by Amit Goswami, "The Master Set Universe" by Maxwell Katz, "The Unreality of Time" and "The Nature of Existence" by John McTaggart. Meister Eckhart, Alan Watts, Anthony de Mello, John Wheeler, Albert Einstein, Benedictus de Spinoza, Baron d'Holbach, Pope Benedictus XVI, Siddhartha Gautama, Kirshna, Jesus Christ and Akhenaten. They all propose the same in their various forms of thought and speech.
It sounds like any person could call "self-aware" (SA) anything that a person claims to be part of. For instance, we are all part of planet Earth. Does that mean that we can say that planet Earth is SA?
@iDeist Each one of us is a special arrangement of atoms. The way our atoms are arranged into our bodies give us SA-ness. The moment we die, the atoms are the same but the arrangement is disrupted. That's an indication that it is the arrangement that makes us SA, not the atoms themselves. The special arrangement of atoms that is us is a product of this little corner of the Universe. As far as we know, nothing outside the Solar System has been instrumental in producing our arrangements of atoms.
@LoScur0 not exactly: the arrangement of our atoms needs: the atoms/molecules, cells(which emerged before the organisms) and so ALREADY. So If you look at the complexification: quantum potential levels, subatomic particles, atoms, molecules, the biochem level anorganic/organic, organ. cells, multicellular structures,, each level contains/is based on the previous level, containing ever more complexity. IF you think about it, every "level" is a systemic structure process, and SEE II ; )
@LoScur0 part 2(i hope one didnt get lost as i dont see it yet) so: all these systemprocess levels contain each other and have no gaps, so: in a whole, the supra system, the system containg ALL subsystems must be the universe. Nr 2: it is moving. So its a systemPROCESS, for whatever reason 3 it SEEMS at this point its COMPLEXIFYING, which doesnt indicate that it would be searching system equlibrium, right?
@LoScur0 We know that even if SA-ness is absolutely unique in our part of the Universe, SA-ness remains a Nature of the Universe, one of an infinity of ways that the Universe expresses itself. Why become such ASTOUNDING DIVERSITY if not to be aware of Yourself as the Universe? The Universe becomes so much BEAUTY--it is OBVIOUS it wants to notice Itself.
Yeah nice video, interesting topic isn't it. I won't get into where my interest in this area of philosophy came, but you should check out this website, let me know what you think. w w w (dot) ctmu (dot) org - dont worry its not spam :)
I have been studying, for years, the theory of the Universal Consciousness, and Unified Reality theory. I find this theory to be intriguing and makes more sense than an omnipotent, transcendent god.
I love to speak in depth with you on this topic if you like.
@AlexandriaGeorgiades Well, the way I see it, it's simple really. If there is no other creator, whether it be Zeus, or Aliens, etc. and the Universe is all there is, and we are products of the Universe, and we in fact study the Universe, then in fact the Universe is conscious and self-aware. There is really no other way about it.
I've tried to have this discussion with others, and they can't get past the concept that consciousness is the only reality.
I also feel that this consciousness is ever evolving, and quite possibly there have been other universe before this one; each one gaining knowledge from the previous and utilizing that knowledge to manifest each successive universe.
I think the problem with those that don't understand it, is they can't get past the illusion of ego...of the illusion of self.
@AlexandriaGeorgiades That's a very interesting concept. An evolving Universe, or multi-verse. I like that. I have no problem wrapping my mind around pretty much anything. The only thing I can't is why there is something instead of nothing, or where matter and energy came from. Maybe it just has always been, but from human experience It just doesnt settle well with me.
Well, if you look at the Law of Conservation of energy...energy can neither be created or destroyed, then energy has simply always existed in some form.
In human form we tend to think in terms of limits of possibilities.
Have you ever meditated and simply experienced "being"? Not "being" as in your individual self/ego, but simply being an integral part of all existence. You are everything and "no" thing, not "nothing" at the same time.
Of course! Each one of us is a unique aperture through which the Universe observes itself, and as such we form a self-referencing feedback loop, which is why the Universe is fractal in nature in such a multitude of ways. Beautiful!
if the universe is self aware then maybe the universe is an accule living entinty in which we live inside. take that a step further if there are mutiverses and there all self aware then maybe they communicate and evolve just like things do on earth. if i really push this one could say the universe is our god and when we die we become one with it thus unlocking the secrete of life its self. mind boggling
It follows from this traditional view that that human thinking is the re-thinking of being itself. Man can re-think the logos, the meaning of being, because his own logos, his own reason, is logos in the one logos, thought of the original thought, of the creative spirit that permeates and governs his being. Joseph Ratzinger, Introduction to Christianity
I have always felt that the Universe, or maybe even a "multiverse" can exist as a discreet and highest level sentience. I also have thought that sentience can be scaled down in hierarchies of smaller systems of the universe. For instance, a galactic supercluster may be a discreet consciousness, an individual galaxy may be one too. Perhaps even a star, although a big nuclear furnace to our understanding, might be aware, thinking and even communicating with it's neighbors. Who knows.
I like the thought. And the vid, even though it doesn't fit the dialogue. Fun watch.
That notion is the closest I can get to what formed us. Does the universe itself have an intelligence and consciousness? The original? And we are copied from that intelligence? To me, it's very much in the philosophical realm, but once you have to leave science, that is the only place to go. Anyway, thanks for posting on my vid. Always fun to get other ideas.
Id and ego are present in the mind that is our sentient universe in that they are two opposing ideas that compromise to make the decisions of our universe.
Your restricting the observers/contributors to humans. Every person, every animal, every plant, every rock, every everything influences the "mind" that is our sentient universe. This mind learns and grows and reacts. It has all of the characteristics of life, and it is self-aware.
To everyone who find this interesting; CHeck out Amit Goswami, a brilliant quantum physicist that work with the questions of counciousness and the universe.
It is not only interesting, it is actually a New Age idea that has been around for many years.
This idea was the reason I liked Intelligent design as words to describe it, untill I discovered that christians invented these words to make their precious religion more scientific.
So although I can find myself accepting that the universe might BE the creator itself, self aware (I don't know about sentient) and evolution is the way it supports life, I don't want to use the word ID. > 2
I've ran into that "ID" argument myself a few times, so I dont use it anymore. The christians took it way out of context and brought their own specific ideology into it.
ideist, check out stevebees site here on utube. He argues that the universe that is "out there" and us being conscious observers are in a symbiotic relationship. The universe needs us as much as we need the universe. Anyway, interesting concept.
If we consider ourselves to be part of the universe then the universe must be sentient and self-aware --THAT'S IF we see ourselves as sentient and self-aware...& if we don't see ourselves as sentient and self-aware then WHAT is? If we say NOTHING IS then how do we know that nothing is if we are not aware?
If we are created as a biproduct of a higher counciousness we are also created by the mercy of that counciousness. My veiw on god follow the vedic philosophy with states that god is existince in its purest form, and we as a part of existince is a tiny particle in gods body, connected to god/existence/the universe through our counciousness. Because counciousness is what makes existence posible.
The universe must be. It dont seem logical to me that counciousness is a byproduct of chemestry, but a bi-product of counciousness this must mean there is some form of counciousness on a higher level than us humans, you call it a self-aware universe. Multi-verses etc. backs up that there is other levels of reality than our materiel universe.
I think this tends to bring into question Materialism and Dualism. Through some recent reading I think the case for Dualism is much more plausible. If you ever want some book recommendations on the self/mind/soul just ask me. :-)
Universe itself is a god??!? Makes sense
TheCaptainjuicy 1 month ago
Some feed back as you said you wanted: if we became conscious from stuff (unconscious or partially so) then I would say that we were begotten, as some say of God. Personally I don’t buy the begotten idea for us or a God, as I see consciousness as outside the motions of things that orbit and go bump in the cosmic night.
I see the Creator as a constant moment less maker of moments.
Sorry, I had to put a long explanation into a short moment.
theloosegoose333 2 months ago
in being self-aware, it beckens the question of what in-fact is consciousness, which seems to give rise our self-awareness. our latest understanding our consciousness indeed places us in a very unique position position where we can no longer say that mind and matter are seperate but are more so manifestations of the same thing. and that thing is possible the essence of existence. meaning our minds are only intimately connected with reality but are within reality.
extraterrestrial16 3 months ago
One can see it in the Abrahamic faiths quite readily. "God created man in his "[self-]reflection" (Gen 1:27). The notion of a "Jealous God" refers to man's proper orientation in service of God. Man - because he does not understand himself, is fundamentally deluded and selfish, cleverly avoids all knowledge of his proper role. Consequences of ignoring this role are manifold according as logic ("In the beginning was Logos" - John 1:1) would have it and includes "ecological collapse".
Rybot9000 4 months ago
I have thought about this a lot and would like to point you to "The Self-Aware Universe" by Amit Goswami, "The Master Set Universe" by Maxwell Katz, "The Unreality of Time" and "The Nature of Existence" by John McTaggart. Meister Eckhart, Alan Watts, Anthony de Mello, John Wheeler, Albert Einstein, Benedictus de Spinoza, Baron d'Holbach, Pope Benedictus XVI, Siddhartha Gautama, Kirshna, Jesus Christ and Akhenaten. They all propose the same in their various forms of thought and speech.
Rybot9000 4 months ago
It sounds like any person could call "self-aware" (SA) anything that a person claims to be part of. For instance, we are all part of planet Earth. Does that mean that we can say that planet Earth is SA?
LoScur0 7 months ago
@LoScur0 we are products of the Universe, not of Earth.
iDeist 7 months ago
@iDeist Each one of us is a special arrangement of atoms. The way our atoms are arranged into our bodies give us SA-ness. The moment we die, the atoms are the same but the arrangement is disrupted. That's an indication that it is the arrangement that makes us SA, not the atoms themselves. The special arrangement of atoms that is us is a product of this little corner of the Universe. As far as we know, nothing outside the Solar System has been instrumental in producing our arrangements of atoms.
LoScur0 7 months ago
@LoScur0 cool bro. thx
iDeist 7 months ago
@LoScur0 not exactly: the arrangement of our atoms needs: the atoms/molecules, cells(which emerged before the organisms) and so ALREADY. So If you look at the complexification: quantum potential levels, subatomic particles, atoms, molecules, the biochem level anorganic/organic, organ. cells, multicellular structures,, each level contains/is based on the previous level, containing ever more complexity. IF you think about it, every "level" is a systemic structure process, and SEE II ; )
Fendefadst 1 month ago
@LoScur0 part 2(i hope one didnt get lost as i dont see it yet) so: all these systemprocess levels contain each other and have no gaps, so: in a whole, the supra system, the system containg ALL subsystems must be the universe. Nr 2: it is moving. So its a systemPROCESS, for whatever reason 3 it SEEMS at this point its COMPLEXIFYING, which doesnt indicate that it would be searching system equlibrium, right?
Fendefadst 1 month ago
@LoScur0 We know that even if SA-ness is absolutely unique in our part of the Universe, SA-ness remains a Nature of the Universe, one of an infinity of ways that the Universe expresses itself. Why become such ASTOUNDING DIVERSITY if not to be aware of Yourself as the Universe? The Universe becomes so much BEAUTY--it is OBVIOUS it wants to notice Itself.
yusufolokun 4 hours ago
Yeah nice video, interesting topic isn't it. I won't get into where my interest in this area of philosophy came, but you should check out this website, let me know what you think. w w w (dot) ctmu (dot) org - dont worry its not spam :)
Markpaul9 1 year ago
@Markpaul9 Definitely and interesting topic, and I will check out the website. Thanks for the comment and the link!
iDeist 1 year ago
@iDeist could you check out feanft.com please and you could be right. thank you for the vid.
TheLovesoul1 7 months ago
@TheLovesoul1 will do and thank you
iDeist 7 months ago
@iDeist thank you take care.
TheLovesoul1 7 months ago
I have been studying, for years, the theory of the Universal Consciousness, and Unified Reality theory. I find this theory to be intriguing and makes more sense than an omnipotent, transcendent god.
I love to speak in depth with you on this topic if you like.
Alexandria
AlexandriaGeorgiades 1 year ago
@AlexandriaGeorgiades Absolutely. I'd be interested in what your thoughts are on the subject.
iDeist 1 year ago
It is the only theory so far that makes any sense. A creator/god is an illogical concept.
Perhaps our consciousness of asking, "Where did we come from?" is the universe itself asking the question.
AlexandriaGeorgiades 1 year ago
@AlexandriaGeorgiades Well, the way I see it, it's simple really. If there is no other creator, whether it be Zeus, or Aliens, etc. and the Universe is all there is, and we are products of the Universe, and we in fact study the Universe, then in fact the Universe is conscious and self-aware. There is really no other way about it.
iDeist 1 year ago
I've tried to have this discussion with others, and they can't get past the concept that consciousness is the only reality.
I also feel that this consciousness is ever evolving, and quite possibly there have been other universe before this one; each one gaining knowledge from the previous and utilizing that knowledge to manifest each successive universe.
I think the problem with those that don't understand it, is they can't get past the illusion of ego...of the illusion of self.
AlexandriaGeorgiades 1 year ago
@AlexandriaGeorgiades That's a very interesting concept. An evolving Universe, or multi-verse. I like that. I have no problem wrapping my mind around pretty much anything. The only thing I can't is why there is something instead of nothing, or where matter and energy came from. Maybe it just has always been, but from human experience It just doesnt settle well with me.
iDeist 1 year ago
Well, if you look at the Law of Conservation of energy...energy can neither be created or destroyed, then energy has simply always existed in some form.
In human form we tend to think in terms of limits of possibilities.
Have you ever meditated and simply experienced "being"? Not "being" as in your individual self/ego, but simply being an integral part of all existence. You are everything and "no" thing, not "nothing" at the same time.
AlexandriaGeorgiades 1 year ago
Of course! Each one of us is a unique aperture through which the Universe observes itself, and as such we form a self-referencing feedback loop, which is why the Universe is fractal in nature in such a multitude of ways. Beautiful!
agoodman1111 1 year ago
How does this thinking require one to assume that there are no living things on other planets?
"The Cosmos is also within us. We're made of star stuff. We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself."
KingMe1220 1 year ago
if the universe is self aware then maybe the universe is an accule living entinty in which we live inside. take that a step further if there are mutiverses and there all self aware then maybe they communicate and evolve just like things do on earth. if i really push this one could say the universe is our god and when we die we become one with it thus unlocking the secrete of life its self. mind boggling
masterman3178 1 year ago
It follows from this traditional view that that human thinking is the re-thinking of being itself. Man can re-think the logos, the meaning of being, because his own logos, his own reason, is logos in the one logos, thought of the original thought, of the creative spirit that permeates and governs his being. Joseph Ratzinger, Introduction to Christianity
Rybot9000 1 year ago
جالس تقرق علانا نص ساعة علشان تعملنا ان عندك سؤال؟
azzam657 1 year ago
I have always felt that the Universe, or maybe even a "multiverse" can exist as a discreet and highest level sentience. I also have thought that sentience can be scaled down in hierarchies of smaller systems of the universe. For instance, a galactic supercluster may be a discreet consciousness, an individual galaxy may be one too. Perhaps even a star, although a big nuclear furnace to our understanding, might be aware, thinking and even communicating with it's neighbors. Who knows.
justaguyiknow 1 year ago
PanDeism/PanenDeism and Emanationism.
Yep, I agree with these ideas, I usppose it's just a matter now of what one chooses to label it all.
Iconoclastithon 1 year ago
I like the thought. And the vid, even though it doesn't fit the dialogue. Fun watch.
That notion is the closest I can get to what formed us. Does the universe itself have an intelligence and consciousness? The original? And we are copied from that intelligence? To me, it's very much in the philosophical realm, but once you have to leave science, that is the only place to go. Anyway, thanks for posting on my vid. Always fun to get other ideas.
stevebee92653 2 years ago
thank you for the kind words! =)
iDeist 2 years ago
Much of your concept is very similar to Hinduism.
imikewillrockyou 2 years ago
Id and ego are present in the mind that is our sentient universe in that they are two opposing ideas that compromise to make the decisions of our universe.
pgreene91 2 years ago
Your restricting the observers/contributors to humans. Every person, every animal, every plant, every rock, every everything influences the "mind" that is our sentient universe. This mind learns and grows and reacts. It has all of the characteristics of life, and it is self-aware.
pgreene91 2 years ago
very thoughtful, i agree.
iDeist 2 years ago
the universe is a green dragon
CHASCHARLTON 2 years ago
You been drinking again Chas?
iDeist 2 years ago
To everyone who find this interesting; CHeck out Amit Goswami, a brilliant quantum physicist that work with the questions of counciousness and the universe.
SayidShazeen 2 years ago
i felt this way since I was little. Were fancy stuff/universe trying to "clearly" understand what we/I/it all is. FUN!
noselfnoproblemo 2 years ago
... Why is the vid of our planet being destroyed by a rogue asteroid relevant to anything?
lol
JRocka114 2 years ago
It is not only interesting, it is actually a New Age idea that has been around for many years.
This idea was the reason I liked Intelligent design as words to describe it, untill I discovered that christians invented these words to make their precious religion more scientific.
So although I can find myself accepting that the universe might BE the creator itself, self aware (I don't know about sentient) and evolution is the way it supports life, I don't want to use the word ID. > 2
drdalet 2 years ago
I've ran into that "ID" argument myself a few times, so I dont use it anymore. The christians took it way out of context and brought their own specific ideology into it.
iDeist 2 years ago
ideist, check out stevebees site here on utube. He argues that the universe that is "out there" and us being conscious observers are in a symbiotic relationship. The universe needs us as much as we need the universe. Anyway, interesting concept.
agnostaxian 2 years ago
I will do and thanks for the channel rec., I'll def. check it out.
iDeist 2 years ago
If we consider ourselves to be part of the universe then the universe must be sentient and self-aware --THAT'S IF we see ourselves as sentient and self-aware...& if we don't see ourselves as sentient and self-aware then WHAT is? If we say NOTHING IS then how do we know that nothing is if we are not aware?
..................
TWITfromURANUS 2 years ago
interesting i was thinking more like bacteria, if they were sentient and apart of us would they know we were sentient as well??? : P
also in the way the universe works it could just be a giant brain with organic molecules and lightning storms who knows
my final guess would be no but it's great to think outside the box some times
Leadman1989 2 years ago
Yeah, you make some good points. I like to think about things like this sometimes. Makes life interesting lol
iDeist 2 years ago
5 stars to your thought process
G0dspelronin 2 years ago 5
lol
Leadman1989 2 years ago
Perhaps, you (we) are consciousness taking a ride in matter in order to be able to understand yourself. The progression of field feedback evolution.
TodaysThought 2 years ago
If we are created as a biproduct of a higher counciousness we are also created by the mercy of that counciousness. My veiw on god follow the vedic philosophy with states that god is existince in its purest form, and we as a part of existince is a tiny particle in gods body, connected to god/existence/the universe through our counciousness. Because counciousness is what makes existence posible.
quardt10 2 years ago
The universe must be. It dont seem logical to me that counciousness is a byproduct of chemestry, but a bi-product of counciousness this must mean there is some form of counciousness on a higher level than us humans, you call it a self-aware universe. Multi-verses etc. backs up that there is other levels of reality than our materiel universe.
quardt10 2 years ago
I think this tends to bring into question Materialism and Dualism. Through some recent reading I think the case for Dualism is much more plausible. If you ever want some book recommendations on the self/mind/soul just ask me. :-)
Great discussion. Well done.
OblivionMon 2 years ago
Thank you for the comment, and I'd love to get some recommendations from you. It's a very interesting subject, in my opinion. Cheers!
iDeist 2 years ago
energy derives from both the plus and negatives....of course I am quoting Metallica
G0dspelronin 2 years ago