Muse Thoughts of a dying atheist

[thealmightycommenter]

get the words right matt ;))

[veryhighsamurai]

oh damn look at the flame war. listen to the damn music, fools.

[krandji]

I love this performance very much

[hetfieldmaynard25]

yeah!! one of the best songs of the fucken world !!

[Gregathor]

think this is my favorite version of this song live

[cpreston5]

i have read bits of the bible and, well it's ludicrous! If i told you that I parted a sea right now would you believe me? No, you wouldn't because we live in civilized times, not retarded times where people swallowed what their local priest shoved down their throat.( yes, i put a joke in there)

[Kurruption818]

when you die it is like when before you where born...

[Aralayna]

This song makes me want to touch myself.

[Scudsy101]

Looking at the comments you wouldn't think you're watching Muse live,hahahaha!

And just because he uses the word "atheist"!!

[Scudsy101]

I don't care for god,i studied the bible and i have rejected it.

Leave me,and other atheists alone...we're not bad people and if you think we are then you,my friend,are ignorant!

[KingAdrock909]

idk how its so simple to believe sumone came to this world with no explanation

u find it hard to believe a greater being created you

but u find it much easier to believe u just came out of the blue

nothing in this world comes to exist without sumthing creating it

God created us and we reject that idea

the pain he feels is like a mother and her child disrespecting her and doesn listen to her and does her own thing

im not forcing this on any1 im just saying how it is

go ahead give me thumbs down

[Tiboroun]

Chemistry pretty much proves we didn't come out of nowhere, life opn earth has been pretty much proven but people argue that because you weren't there you can't know, the only true mystery now is where did the earth and the universe come from? I, however, respect those that maintain faith because it is a positive influence and i in no way disagree with faith...just religion. Nobody can say they are correct so don't say "thats how it is"

[KingAdrock909]

i say thats how it is

cuz thats i how i believe it is

thats my faith in it

im simply stating what i believe and hoping someone will read it

im not forcing it on anyone im simply just laying it out there

like a fisherman does where he casts out his line and hopes to catch somehting

[Roggins69]

i don't find it hard to believe that something greater than me created me

i do however find it hard to believe anything of which there is no proof.

there may be a supreme being - there may be many - however the only "proof" is a book full of second-hand accounts - the authors of which didn't even see with their own eyes but retold stories they'd heard and most likely embellished upon them (heard of "chinese whispers"?)

By this logic (yes, logic), it would be RETARDED to take it as fact.

[KingAdrock909]

There have been many cities though that are stated in the bible that have been destroyed and when the cities are discovered they are destroyed in the way the bible has described them such as sodom and gomora

also the bible is very descriptive

i mean im not pushing or laying any of this on you im just saying the bible is really based on faith

its people who believe what is in the bible is all based on faith that it did happen you know

[MetalguitarlessonsUK]

Can you not see what is so silly about your argument here?

How far do you then take that method of thinking? Who created god then? The usual answer from Christians is something along the lines of 'he has always been there outside of space and time! The alpha and the omega' etc etc.

So you cannot believe that this universe was just here as it is such a complex thing. Yet you CAN believe in a being who created the universe and thus by definition MUST be more complicated than the universe being

[bbhatmaker]

I wouldn't call God complexed. Nearly incomprehensible, yes - it's His simplicity that confounds us. A system that has restraints placed upon it will have to be more complexed to acheive the same results as a system without restraints. I view God as the "unrestricted Creator" - meaning His omnipotence comes not from conquering all restrictions, but from simply not having them. After all, if the Creator cannot be bound by the same restrictions (like time) of the universe It created.

[MetalguitarlessonsUK]

That answers nothing at all and does not even come close to suggesting asking who created god is a nonsensical question....Everything you said about him can equally be turned to the universe thus deleting any need for a god. (hence the overwhelming majority of the worlds top scientists are not religious, of the national academy of scientists only 7% hold any religious belief).

It is absurd that you could even think that was an appropriate answer, you only find it reasonable because you have

[bbhatmaker]

So the universe is not bound by restrictions? Please, explain your reasoning.

[12345ISIS12345]

@bbhatmaker If the universe had restrictions then what would be outside the universe?

[bbhatmaker]

@12345ISIS12345

Something not of the physical universe? I'm not sure I understand your question. From what I do gather of the question, it's like asking what's outside a virtual universe. Nothing virtual, but we know there's another form of existence beyond the virtual that the virtual resides in - the physical. The spiritual is what we call an existence beyond physical. We are not bound to the conditions and restrictions of virtual realities we create, neither would God with the physical.

[12345ISIS12345]

@bbhatmaker You saud that the universe had restrictions so what would be outside it, there are no spiritual things outside it and it is impossible for there to be nothing so I was questioning your comment, anyway if god was not physicall why believe in him?

[bbhatmaker]

@12345ISIS12345

Nothing is not an object, it's just the absence of things. If the universe has form and shape (which it does) then it has boundaries (albeit ever expanding), If the universe is all there is physical, then there is no physical object outside of the universe - physically there is nothing. When discussing the spiritual, I don't use "outside" because that denotes space. the Spiritual is beyond the physical, but they do not reside outside, or inside the universe. It transcends it.

[12345ISIS12345]

@bbhatmaker So this 'creator' can't even create rel things what a creator!

[bbhatmaker]

@12345ISIS12345

What is real? Although, it doesn't really matter how you define it, I never said He couldn't - In fact, I do believe I stated He is without restriction. The analogical relationship between virtual and physical and physical and spiritual is just that, an analogy.

[bbhatmaker]

@12345ISIS12345

To answer your question, I'm not convinced that the physical is all there is. To say that only the physical and exist, and that's it is more baseless than saying there are other forms of existence, and it's even more closed minded. I see the relationship between us in the physical world and our creations in the virtual world as analogous to God's possible relationship with us. If we gave a virtual Sim intelligence, it could easily raise the same objections to our existence.

[12345ISIS12345]

@bbhatmaker It is not more bassless because there is more to disprove your theory than mine, saying that there is a spirital world that is out there sounds fundemental, It is not narrow minded not believing in spirits it called being logical. and realistic.

[bbhatmaker]

@12345ISIS12345

According to most atheists, you cannot prove a negative claim. What I've stated is not theory, it's an hypothesis that seeks to reconcile modern skepticism with theological philosophy. The reason it has more basis than yours is because we see what I have shown within our own experience, especially when dealing with realities we create in the virtual - or at least, we can if we dared. Yours is without such.

[12345ISIS12345]

@bbhatmaker How does that satae that there is no such thing as physical, If I hold a cup in my hand, and I know it's their because I can see it and feel it, and you can see it too, that is the basis, it doesn't need backing up, If you said oh that cup isn't there when it clearly was then your argument would have no basis.

[bbhatmaker]

@12345ISIS12345

That brings up an interesting thought (going back to the virtual analogy)-would a virtual being residing in a virtual world realize their existence was not actual-or would it seem real to them?Is reality relative?Does God see the physical world as a false reality(I think most religions suggest this to be the case),but we, knowing nothing else, see it as real?I think therefore I am, but is what I am what I see? This has the danger of becoming an existential discussion...

[12345ISIS12345]

@bbhatmaker You know I'm not even going to bother replying after this because your just saying the same old load of bullshit. The only basis your argument has is philosaphy, mine has fact andv has every human as proof (well almost) philosaphy isn't a basis, It is a question that no-one has or can answer so until you come up with a better argument then I don't intend on posting any more comments.

[bbhatmaker]

I'd be interested in hearing those proofs, you've done nothing but prod at my thinking and illustrated nothing to defend your position.Using human jobs as analogies for God is nothing new-God's been related to being a Father, then an Architect, a Watchmaker,and now a Programmer. As we find ourselves capable of creating more and more complexed artificial creations, so should we better understand how a God may have a relation with us. Many atheist proofs rely on misunderstandings of that relation.

[bbhatmaker]

@12345ISIS12345

And I should like to apologize for frustrating you. It was not my intent.

[12345ISIS12345]

@bbhatmaker I wasn't fustrated, but you are saying the same bullshit again and again so I can't be botherd to debate anymore.

[MetalguitarlessonsUK]

one which is you dont know...so why make up a god in the first place?

Sorry to those just watching this video for the muse content..apologies for clogging up the comment section!

[MyMelon13]

@MetalguitarlessonsUK

its alright i didnt read any of that shit, got kinda intimidated haha (not calling ur ideas shit, just "that shit" as a describing phrase) :)

p.s. i love God and I love Muse....

[bbhatmaker]

Some of the things I've tried to post require more than 500 characters. If it's alright by you, we could continue this over PM's and not clog up the comment section.

[MetalguitarlessonsUK]

Id be interested to hear them for sure, feel free to pm me. I feel that I should have done that with my response rather than clog up the message board here.

If we are going to be talking CS Lewis I have read 'mere Christianity' (albiet a long time ago) and do not find it a convincing argument so there is no need to reiterate his points unless you have genuinely not heard or thought of the rebutals already. before we advance I would like to get some basics out of the way for what exactly you

[MetalguitarlessonsUK]

believe. Do you believe in the 'miracles' as stated in the bible? Do you believe in the power of prayer? Do you think you have 2 way conversations with god? Are you a creationist? Are you a young earther? Have you read the bible?Do you find it historically/scientifically accurate?

I agree that just because you are a Christian it does not mean you have not thought it through but it implies very heavily that you have not, especially when you make the point you did about god needing no creator..

[bbhatmaker]

"I AM the Alpha and the Omega" - not "I was the beginning and will be the end." It reveals in Christian thought God is unrestricted by time, he experiences and interacts, and exists at all moments in time in the same moment. There is no past or future tense for Him, all are happening to Him at once,forever. To be created means something existed before you - but in God's existence, there is no past, and no future, just eternal presence. Who created God is therefore a nonsensical question.

[MetalguitarlessonsUK]

(most likely) been brought up in a christian enviroment where these 'explanations' are thrust upon you and hammered in at such a young age and are constantly around you that you naturaly assume they must make sense.

Try and step away from all that and look at it from the outside (i am aware from personal experience that this is incredibly difficult of course) and you will see the nonsensical quality of your point.

What if I claim to believe in the god who created your god and that he is

[bbhatmaker]

Just because I'm a Christian doesn't mean I haven't thought things through myself. Atheism isn't the only conclusion for thinking people - some of us choose to work through theological principals than taking the easy way out and abandoning them. My ideas about God are not commonly expressed amongst Christians, but I doubt any would take issue. C.S. Lewis and Augustine had similar ideas, though they never fully expressed them.

[MetalguitarlessonsUK]

the REAL infinite one.

The other problem your point brings up is without time there is no possibility of change since change requires a before and an after. If that something cannot change then that something cannot have new ideas or change its mind or learn new things or create anything etc, etc. Therefore, if God is outside time (thus infinite) and is outside our universe in some timeless infinite place, and infinite things cannot create things, then God did not create our universe.

[MetalguitarlessonsUK]

an infinite God is not logically compatible with a finite universe. He would be unable to interact with it. He could not take actions at certain times to change the course of things, he could not listen to prayers since he cannot know something new that he doesn't already know and he cannot change his mind or be influenced by the prayer and take action based on it. So praying to an infinite God is absurd.

You just end up tying yourself in knots if you go down this route.

[MetalguitarlessonsUK]

Ill try putting it in a different way to make sure you understand. Do you agree that God has a plan and that the plan exists in the form of an idea in the mind of God? I imagine you do as most christians do so lets go from there,So, by saying that God did it you are saying that something that has complexity and order exists in the mind of God (his plan). Do you agree with this? That the mind of God isn't a complete Chaos that it must have order and complexity floating in his mind

[bbhatmaker]

I don't believe God has a perception of time nor travels in time - so I don't believe God made up a plan before the universe began, set the universe in motion, then gave it freewill, corrected its actions and to this day abides to that plan. Planning requires an anticipation of the future in a moment that will be passing. Without time, there is no before or after, both key for planning. God desires for us to be with Him, but we're the ones who have to make that our goal,and do the work/planning

[carrotjuice555]

It all makes sense now..

Thank you so much.

[MetalguitarlessonsUK]

(it doesn't matter if his mind is simple) in the form of a plan or simulatiom of the real complex word? If so, where did that complexity floating in the mind of God came? You have to ask this question because you are saying that complexity in the real world is highly improbable. So what about the plan floating in the mind of God? In the end you explain nothing.

And saying that God is infinite ads another complication, because the plan must be put together

[MetalguitarlessonsUK]

in the mind of God... so that the parts of the plan aren't infinitly away and, therefore, useless a conection must exist. This raises the question: who drove the parts of the plan so that they join to be a simulated universe, one moment before the ct of creation?

The only answer you can then offer to this is 'oh god works in mysterious ways you cannot understand so attempting to explain it using logic is ridiculous' which is of course the ultimate cop out and once again leads you back to square

[MetalguitarlessonsUK]

'just there'. Can you not see what is so utterly ridiculous about that? A universe just being there to you is apparently silly and a huge stretch of the imagination, but an invisible benevolent being who made the universe and is thus by definition more complex 'just being there' is fine.

It is religious people like you that give religion a bad name. You have obviously not thought about this hard at all or you would have realized the self defeating quality of your point here. You believe

[MetalguitarlessonsUK]

Christianity is right because your parents/preacher told you so from a young age and you just have not thought properly about it. If you had you would not have made such an obviously silly point.

Im willing to bet you have not even read the bible. (shakes head sadly). Really you give Christians a VERY bad name. Think about these things and learn more about it before spouting out nonsense as you are here.

[KingAdrock909]

as a matter of fact i have read the bible and am old enough to make descisions on my own and still i believe christianity is right.

[MetalguitarlessonsUK]

I fail to see how this comment adresses the point I made? Am I to assume that your lack of response on that matter implies that you accept your original comment was ridiculous?

Seeing as you claim to have read the bible I am very curious on your opinions of the brutaly primtive sexism, orders of genocide, infanticide, the rape of young children and slavery within it. There is far too much to write in these limiting comment boxes so I have sent you a personal message instead, check your inbox.

[ArrogantAtheist]

Atheists FTW!!

[Gregathor]

think this is the best version iv heard of this song live, ignoring the comments that is lol

[tuber2654]

I dont like being told how to live my life, specially by someone you cant see or hear. if I'm going to burn because I'm living life the way i want to

so be it

[piiink1]

wow its just a song, awesome, but still just a song no need to get into a fight about religion everyone is entitled to their own beliefs

[Marfullcrack]

great music hahaha

[Levahk]

the guy who think god is Silly well then I would hate to be you with nothing to look forward to. If Atheists were smart enouph to relize that this planet is gone some day We are going to kill us all simple as that. I would wanna know how it would feel that no matter what I do I accomplish nothing that my good deeds give me no reward after my time is up and will not be fucked over in the next 500 years when humans are all dead. Now if you aint figured that humans are fucked then dont respond.

[Ninjat0m]

Well dude.... i think EVERY SINGLE human on Earth should die.... and im athiest... i dont care how many thumbs down i get... We caused globel warming...., made animals go extinct yes MADE, suicide bombers, Wars (because of religion), Suicides... and if there was a "god" why is earth so fucking fucked up (cus we fucked it? ok then) Why do people die or accidents like someone dying of SDS happen? ye answer that. i got a whole load more arguments

[Levahk]

Us Humans are an Abomination Why does things happen to us? Well We are 100% to blame for everything I dont care what Scientist Say about Hurricanes and such things or diseases, For I am sure we are the cause of them all. Cant Blame Religion for our wars we are the people wanting the war it isnt Relgion that say "Go into war with people you dont like" Now for one The Bible I do not believe is correct its made from humans thus it is flawed so any clues you pull out of it that make religion bad.

[mattbellamysbliss]

so natural disasters are caused by humans in your beleif?

LOL

how do you explain countless drops and increases in the earths tempreture , ice ages and such .... where does your bible mention dinosaurs .. thats right it doesnt because they were not discovered then , how people can be so obnoxious as to think we were there at the start of the world just full capable is beyond me

[Locoman4000]

Lol. We create hurricanes? We make volcanoes erupt? We buried Pompeii? Listen. The Bible is flawed, I myself notice that (or at least the old testament is). But not all diseases were created by us. We did not create the black death (bubonic plague) or malaria. We did create the bomb and made diseases from radiation.

And war is necessary sometimes, to settle disputes (imagine if violence was the way we settled every conversation).

[Locoman4000]

And we don't even know how to fucking use punctuation neither. First of all, every human eventually WILL die. There's no doubt about that. But we're only following our nature. Human Nature is to dominate, to conquer. It even says that God created us to dominate all other animals. Listen to me.

God wants us to fix our own problems. He wants to see what we do with what we have.

There is a God. And he does not cause the problems. Humanity does (or rather, scientists tend to).

[Ninjat0m]

ok, i see that, i do have respect for people who are religious, i personally dont think there is a god.... and im amazed i got 2 thumbs up

[shai4ais]

I don't know about you guys, but my religion (Islam) doesn't promise me a life without troubles and challenges on this world. Only our good deeds on this world can help us to deserve an immortal life on the other side - in heaven.

Nothing happens without the will of the GOD. For a faithful person challenges, struggle and death are not evil things.

Think of a student who wants to get in to his dream university, will he/she get there without struggling?

[JOEY4472]

I think god is silly and i have loads to look forward to, so that kinda shuts you down buddy. plus, you must be some great christian, putting gods name with out a capital G !

peace out :]

[mannholloway]

keep your Jesus speak to yourself, when you were atheist were able to see art for art or were you always talking out you ass

[homerjcoolguy]

Maybe you should keep your religious beleifs to yourself and not force them on people. Just annoy you... I am an atheist, I don't beleive in a god/gods I think god is silly and the bible has many inconsitancies (might be spelt wrong) I am sorry to people who I have offended, I just wanted to annoy this guy who thinks he should tell us that atheism is evil and we WILL burn.

[Scite998]

I have my own religion. I beleive in the christian god, but it's only half of it. THe other half consists of me doing good things because I like to make other people happy, not because I'm afraid to burn. You saying what you did is a sin unto your own words. I hope your happy now.

[RcNmaker]

Music in my HEad!!!!

[silvermarv]

scares the he@Eh!eell out of me

♫♫♫

[danielpaquin1994]

Holy Crap, ive heard of Muse but i never knew thay this good!

[thebeastmansavage]

I <3 this and it is a good song

[Peniza]

MUSE > Radiohead

[dragonforceisgreat]

radiohead sucks...

muse is in the top 5 for the last decade...

[LihiSB]

Matthew!Please MARRY ME!

[alexhurst89]

2nd to radiohead

[thedistrict3]

No.

Radiohead has turned into elitist abstract shit. I could make armpit fart beats and call it Radiohead and people would drool over it because it's "deep"

[alexhurst89]

agree to disagree

[dragonforceisgreat]

i agree radiohead uses shit noises and emotive shit reckoning its all mysterious to make people such as emo's listen ect.

[fuzzcut]

HRIEGNTJRUKHJMRYLHYTR.

theyre so good.

[transientrhetoric]

Holy crap Muse is amazing! You can tell just by listening to the music that they are heavily influenced by Bach and Mozart when it comes to the chord progressions. You just don't hear that very often and they've taken advantage of the fact that hardly any bands do it. haha just kind of thinking out loud here. bottom line=muse rocks

[deathbychocolate13]

his voice makes me high =D

[Kueller917]

Just like it does to everyone, Muse is just that good

[WhiteTiger225]

Is it me or does this song have the feel of a mature (pg 14) anime opening mixed with a bit of paranoia agent at certain parts?

[zuluamuse]

Muse are simply in another league..no matter what they touch!... even when Matt is using a cappa...the sound is always magical!

The quality of this posting is superb!

[Capz541]

I whole-heartedly concur

[WhiteTiger225]

Their songs knights of cydonia has been compared to queens bohemian rhapsody.. many songs have had that comparison but only muse has earned the title "New Age Queen"

[MuseAlive]

the bassist at 1.42 m is the background music dude, he helps muse with some songs that needs more effects

[MAXKORN1]

so is he playing bass or just tuning it or something?

[MAXKORN1]

That second bassist looks fake, he doesn't move.  The only possible motion I see is his wrist slightly moving, but it may just be the video quality.

[jazzkikker]

he's morgan, their on tour sessionist, he helps with the effects that matt couldnt play live!!! he is considered to be the 4th muse...

[acephalia]

why don't they just get him into the boat like for example the deftones did with their dj when releasing white pony? (which is a masterpiece, btw)

[jamesabrook]

I don't know. Morgan doesn't have a US visa so he can't do Us live performances

[MuseMatt]

Morgan wasn't around at the time of this particular tour. This was just some tuning of the bassguitar tech, because his hand was of the neck, so he couldn't be playing along.

[james335]

Yer. Just tuning.

[cidrolintunio]

hey people, did you notice the other man who plays bass at 1.42m???

[dieghorock]

it must be the stage manager or some roadie, tunning a bass for the next song...

[hugoism]

he is a very talented singer

[RedKid8]

great song,Love it!=)

[bellamysfitgirl1234]

:) 2006 views, thats nice i got confusedy though

[lawry29]

nice.

[HTTT]

tres bon live ^^