Skeptic Bible Study: Creation Account (Excuses)

[SmalltimR]

First off "WE" didn't review.

Its more along the lines of, you rushed through the material with little to no preparation or understanding and then drew your own conclusions from that :)

However the answer to your sun/sky delima can be found in Job.

Notice here where God himself speaks to Job regarding the creation of the earth? At which point he divulges how he let the sunlight strike the earth :)

So again... if you did the research you wouldn't have ended-up with the convolution.

[immortalindian22]

sorry i meant without form*

[immortalindian22]

To answer the thing about the birds, it never says the birds were made from the water, it just says they were there. so in chapter 2 it explains how they were made which was with the dirt. also in gen 1:2 it said that the earth was there with form and void, then in verse 3 it said that God made light, so the number of years between verse 2 and 3 is defiantly millions or billions of year. the days are not metaphorical and are actual days and the earth is defiantly not 10000 years old

[chopppacalamari]

on the one day doesn't mean 'at the same time'. One day could have been millions of earth years.

[MYASHASH]

Thanks for posting a video that stirs the pot.

I believe that Gen. 2:1-7 is refering to "heavens and earth" in the pre adamic time (an unmeasurable time between Gen.1:1 and Gen. 1:2) not an elaboration of Gen. 1:-13. So with that said I believe there is no contradiction. Also the inhabitants of this pre adamic time were fallen angels not humans. God only created humans once.

[VendPrekmurec]

@MYASHASH well "creation" was taken from Anunnaki's story (Adam or Adapa)

Humanity is older than "god" or "serpent" (anunnaki - "fallen ones" from Orion)

[jimbrown257]

I have heard the two different creations hypothesis before to explain Gen 1 v 2. I have also heard the idea that there were multiple creations to explain the problem of Cain's wife and the folks who were going to slay him if the saw him. While I suppose family members could slay Cain, the problem with the separate creations to explain the discrepencies doesn't work because in Gen 3:20 Eve is said to be the mother of all living (I assume humans). So there could not be independant creations.

[kenandkids]

i was kicked out of sunday school for a similar problem with cain and his wife... i was 7 years old. in gen.2:14, cain cries that whoever meets him shall slay him. in 2:15 god places a mark to ward anyone from doing so... my very literate and 7 yo brain was a bit perplexed because our church taught that we could all trace descendence to adam. after raising this i was ridiculed and mocked, but never answered. when i asked where his wife came from, my stepmother was told to keep me in sermon.

[HConstantine]

The serrate creation of two groups of mankind also introduces horrible theological problems/ Why would the fall and curse of Adam and Eve apply to the other group. This is the kind of theology that supports anti-semitism in Christian Identity.

[juliecranford]

So, the jews believed that plants couldn't grow without humans to till the ground? I guess Daniel Quinn's theory is out.

[z2153]

I adhere to the second theory, which is there were humans before Adam. Since Adam was a sacred creation God wanted his bloodline to be pure, so therefore Eve was created from Adam. There has to be a pure bloodline so that Jesus could come from that same line.

[fa272]

@z2153 Adam's bloodline was not pure. It was by him that sin entered into the world, according to the Bible. The Bible gives no indication of creation of other humans before Adam, in fact, it specifically states that Eve is the "mother of all."

[z2153]

Adam's bloodline runs from him to Jesus as shown in the Gospel of Luke. That is what I mean by a "pure bloodline". Pure equals God's chosen people. Eve was the mother of all of God's chosen people. It's very evident that there were people before Adam, since Adam came into existence 6,000 years ago.

[fa272]

@z2153 "It's very evident that there were people before Adam" Exactly. But the Bible doesn't mention anything about them in the creation story. It specifically states that the first man and woman were Adam and Eve, it's a bunch of bologna. These are just Jewish folklore. Every civilization has some ancient story about a god or a group of gods creating the universe.

[z2153]

This is a hard concept to understand, but the people before Adam were considered less then Adam and therefore not the first man. This would then explain a lot of what is considered brutality found in the bible towards non hebrew peoples.

[fa272]

@z2153 Well the Bible does not say that, but if one were to go with that concept as a biblical apology, that would mean that the Israelites were racist pieces of trash. If you were to invent your own god, of course it/he/she would support your own views and beliefs.

[z2153]

I believe everyone is racist to some extent, so therefore sure the Israelites were racists. So is every other group, religion, or nation. The Hebrew God supports his chosen people and that is what you find in the bible.

[xtcx2e]

Great work John, i think this was one of your best videos.

[tidders2]

The banishment from one realm to another is not so simple, and we are talking about different creations by different god(s) /powers/forces/science (being different in another realm)

An outlandish theory, maybe. But comments of refutation by a person of intelligence would be appreciated. (that is to you diest, I consider you fairly intelligent). Others of intelligence are welcome to refute too., with intelligent rebuttals.

[tidders2]

Good Work. But surely it is supposed to mean something other than just being a fairy tale, perhaps not. But consider this explanation in response to your refutation of a two creation apology. I'm not saying it's right mind, but give it some thought then refute it because I am dwelling on it sometime now. Continued......

[tidders2]

What if it were two creations in two different realms (dimensions) by different Gods. Or "The Gods" and the "God of the earth". Gods of different realms. Continued.....

[pilgrimpater]

So Yaweh created animals before woman. These would surely have needed to be both male and female. In view of this, surely it would be obvious that man would also want a woman. Why the delay? What a tease old Yaweh was.

Also there is no mention anywhere of water (that most vital of compounds) being created. Typical Creationism ........ conjuring something out of absolutely nothing.

[klaron0]

which chapter does creationists want school children to be taught, chapter 1 or chapter 2?

[Christisms]

Although I am not 100% sure on this, I have heard the scholars say that these are two different written accounts (chapter was written first and than chapter one about 100-150 years later). Chapter 1 was written in the Kingdom of Israel and Chapter 2 was written in the Kingdom of Judah. Apologists don't make note of this because (surprise surprise) they reject the generally accepted documentary hypothesis in favor of Moses writing the whole Torah.

[MagoMike]

It's always "oh chapter 2 just goes into the creation in more detail. It doesn't contradict itself." It is ridiculous how people could even consider this fairytale as historically accurate. Thank you for making an effort in raising knowledge about the flaws in this book.

[winterstellar]

Great video as usual! But these are things people should have been debating in the dark-ages, not in 2009 with all the scientific knowledge and so on we have now! Anyone with a normally functioning brain should be able to immediately understand that "The Bible" is a ridiculous collection of fairy-tales that only ancient goat-herders thousands of years ago could possibly take seriously! Keep up the work, and of course it's a five-star rating from me as usual!: )

[DeistPaladin]

I feel the same thing all the time. I recently witnessed Habermas arguing the "historicity of the resurrection" and, with a straight face, using the Bible as his supporting historical documents at a respectable university forum.

I remember thinking, "why is anyone debating him? Why isn't he being laughed out of the room? Literally, I expect a rational society to respond not with debate but raucous laughter. This man should be publishing only in tabloids alongside articles on Batboy.

[gbortuhno]

@winterstellar well tell that to a christian because i think their brains have sucked out by their "god" i out god in quotes because their god is more stupid than a kitchen

[warwolfii]

@winterstellar It is appalling, is it not, that here in the 21st Century, surrounded by the might and scope of science and technology, we are still debating questions from the days of itinerant sheep herders. Your point that this should have been debated in the Dark Ages is very well taken. In fact, before that era of our benighted past, questions such as the location of the earth in the heavens, the size and shape of our planet, the question of atoms and so forth had already been answered.

[stagism]

Good work.

[AuntieDiluvian]

Excellent

[ToddAllenGates]

Excellent point about Eve being an afterthought to His All-Knowingness.

[freethinker3161]

great work, i had never heard those apologies, i have always hear, something like, it was the same story but just told a different way from a different perspective. thanks for letting me post by the way. much love and respect.

[annatar3]

mmm about the 2 creation stories in genesis, I remember there was some sort of apology or "explanation" for that, in the alphabet of Ben-Sira(i believe), that says that the first women was Lilth, that was later expelled for not wanting to lie under Adam and then chapter two would be the creation of a second woman "Eve". but of course this "explanation" lefts aside all the other contradictions

[adolthitler]

Yes the Lilith story is most interesting, because the reason she does not want to let Adam on top. Lilith worships a godess and sex is a sacrement to the godess and so her followers must do it on top. Adam wants to be on top to honor Yahweh, so he beats Lilith to force her under. After he sleeps and she tries to kill him, so god allows a divorce. Then Eve comes into the picture, Lilith goes and lives next to a river with a tribe of demons. Eve wants to worship her godess too but Adam beats her..

[adolthitler]

Eve is possesed by Lillith and tries to kill Adam in his sleep and he awakes and beats her within an inch of her life, Lilith is excorcised. Adam and Eve live happy ever after till the snake.

God punishes Lilith by killing 10,000 of her babies a day.

So the creation story is really about the start of a tribe, Adam starts the Israelites, Lilith heads another tribe, who believe in another god, a godess no less.

Thats why the early church was so anti women speaking and being involved in the church.

[annatar3]

well i doubt the early (and today) church is antiwoman because of lilith fairy tale, (in the Apostle's Facts I remember there was a female deacon, but watever), they are just antiwoman cause there are bigots

[QuestioProVerum]

The most intriguing aspect of Genesis would be chapter 1:1. In all modern texts the first line reads "in THE beginning..."

However, when reading an ancient Hebrew text, that line reads "in A beginning..."

Quite the glaring contrast when you think about it.

[fatfist]

Excellent video as usual!

Thank you for educating us.

[Steadno]

Adam had no mother. Eve had two dads.

[M0THERKN0WSBEST]

I love this guys videos, but having a bit of a problem with the lighting in this one, ... looks like he has a prosthetic nose.

[DeistPaladin]

You and my wife think the same way. She just gave me some makeup for my next video...

[M0THERKN0WSBEST]

The internet is a wonderful thing, though thousands of miles separate us, we can instantly have a discussion about your hooter!

[ddpl365]

Why did it not occur to Yahweh to create a female companion for Adam in chapter 2?

And the Lord God did say unto Adam, "bros before hoes"

[Lovingdoubt]

I'm enjoying this series very much! It really brings light to how many problems the first few chapters of Genesis have.

[kalsolarUK]

Right on the money...very astute observations.

[DeistPaladin]

Thank you. You know, I was just thinking about you as I'm preparing to do my next video about the "it's just a metaphor" thing and how you've dealt with that subject. I loved that video you did on "moderate Christianity".

[mrplow8]

I've jokingly said that maybe there were two creations before. It's interesting that there are people who actually believe that.

[DeistPaladin]

That's the problem with satire of Islamo-Christianity. Chances are good that someone seriously believes what's presented in satire.

Some people think Fred Phelps is satire and others that Pastor Deacon Fred is serious.

[lotanddaughters]

He'll throw that Bible when he's Goddamned READY to! He's STOMPIN' on them dumb fucks! All glory and praise be to JOHN!

[mousegeek]

Excellent.

[bestboymusic]

I really like the way you have thought this through. By engaging this topic in detail it highlights its absurdity. That in the minds of creationists, this is what's held in place of centuries of scientific advancement. Wow. My point is that it apparently isn't enough to have a discussion on why we know evolution occurs.That just invites one to dismiss the science. I appreciate how you're able to point to specific problems in the process of magic wand waving. Your patience is quite impressive.

[DJHellBoundKloud]

five star video once again John.

[lipoicacid]

Give them hell Data!!!! =D

[aartvegan]

I feel sorry for them.