Fair enough. It is about overall better racehorses in regards to "many great horses having losing records" against others. PO did freak for a few races in the fall of 73', but unfortunately they only met in one race, and Steve Haskin is still stating "his opinion" that no horse could have beaten PO that day, it doesn't mean it's true,it's opinion.. After all,we know what Crist,Haskin,Hirsch,Nack,etc are all providing their opinions, as we all are.
I don't buy the excuses about Secretariats losses. The fact is sometimes he turned in lackluster performances like he did in the Wood Memorial. Also, I don't believe there was any way he was going to defeat Prove Out in the 1973 Woodward -- more workouts or no. Steve Haskin was correct in saying that no horse could have beaten Prove Out that day. That does not mean that I think Prove Out should be ranked higher than Secretariat or that PO ranks with the greatest thoroughbreds. He isn't close.
Many great horses have losing records against good, but not great horses. It would be silly to rank the very horses higher than the greats because of this. Also, the fact that Dr Fager & Damascus are 2 and 2 does not mean they should be ranked equal.. Head to head competition against other horses is only one consideration in how they are ranked relative to one another.
If your argument is that EG should be ranked 31 & SS 33, I don't have a problem with that. I believe, however, that SS has certain strengths that EG may not possess that makes him a difficult match up in races up to 1 1/4 mile. If EG was checked into Houston's hind qrtrs & forced to idle the way SS was in the Preakness, I don't believe he would have been able to accelerate catch SS in the turn like SS did. EG is at his best vs SS when he has clear sailing at long distances on wide turn tracks.
I agree, they are opinions on losses. Nack made a fortune on his book talking about Secretariat's 3 losses. Crist the same with Easy Goer(didn't handle the Churchill track and bad riding).
After all, these are still opinions, as I have and you have as well as everybody has-opinions. But Secretariat(3 losses due to a mouth abcess,low grade fever and not being trained for a particular race)-opinions. Dr Fager(2 losses due to a rabbit running)- Citation(ankles)- Easy Goer(atrocious Pat Day riding in Preakness&Classic, though some say the Classic due to 1 1/2mile prep,grueling campaign,horrible ankles,colic). Opinions on losses- I agree they are opinions.
Sl7293, for the record, I believe, in fact, I know that I would love for you to be the one to go on the Secretariat videos and talk about the low grade fever,mouth abcess and not being trained for a particular race excuses and reasons for his losses. And on the Dr Fager videos where the rabbits excuses and reasons, and the Citation videos blaming his ankles. Easy Goer & Citation both must have had some pretty bad ankles.
Are you stating that Beau Purple,Interco,Noor,Akureyri,Big Spruce,SS,Damascus,Formal Gold,etc were all overall better racehorses just because they were ahead on the scoreboard vs. Kelso,John Henry,Citation,Pleasant Colony,Forego,Dr Fager,Easy Goer,Skip Away,etc? Or is SS the only one because he was ahead?
I HAVE answered about the SPECIFICS of that in regards to the 1989 Preakness and 89 Classic a million times here!That is what your problem is, that everybody repeats these SPECIFICS a million times. My opinion is that Kelso,Citation,Easy Goer,Forego,John Henry,Dr Fager,Skp Away,etc were all overall better racehorses than the horses they were behind on the scoreboard to.Cases can certainly be made for Damascus,Formal Gold,ss,Noor,Beau Purple,etc being "overall better horses", but thats MY OPINION
How could Kelso, Citation, Dr. Fager, Forego etc. lose the races you cite if they were better ON THE DAY OF THE RACE than their opponents were? Similarly how could Easy Goer lose the Preakness and Breeders Cup, if he was better than Sunday Silence ON THE DAY OF THE RACES which he lost to SS? Please answer both questions and be specifc.
NO, it would be intelligent of you to actually read my comment(s). I said Kelso,Citation,Easy Goer,Skip Away,Forego,John Henry,Dr Fager,Pleasant Colony were ALL THE BETTER HORSES(to be very accurate I said JUST LIKE) that were behind on the scoreboard in head to heads. Can you read or you just chose not to read the comments?
So Kelso, Dr Fager, Citation, Forego et al. all lost because they weren't good enough to win? EG was the only one of these great horses who lost because he was sabotaged due to circumstances beyond his control? Your point is, unlike all of the other horses you mention, Easy Goer's weaknesses & his opponents strengths were not the overriding factor in his losses. EG got sabotaged while all of the other horses you mention were defeated because their opponents were better. Is that your point?
Who said I blame the behind on the scoreboard losses of Kelso,Citation,Skip Away,Dr Fager,Forego,John Henry,Pleasant Colony on jockey error?Not me.Is it my opinion that Day's typical riding got him beat a nose and desperation neck in 2 of his losses vs.an also great in ss? That is my opinion.Citation would definitely be top 70 because Noor is 69th.The bottom line is Kelso,Citation,EG,Skp Away,Forego,John Henry,Dr Fager,etcwere all behind or tied on scorebrd for a varietyof reasons(opinions)
I don't blame the losses by Kelso, Citation, Forego, or Dr Fager's that you cite to jockey error the way you do with Easy Goer. They simply weren't good enough win on those days just like Easy Goer was not good enough to defeat Sunday Silence on three occasions. If Citation's reputation were based on his performance after age 3 and after his ankle injury, he definitely would not be a top 100 horse. He might not even rate in the top 1000. Noor was a better horse when those two squared off.
Better horse? Easy Goer, the better horse, was behind on the scoreboard in head to head JUST LIKE Kelso losing 3 of 4 to Beau Purple. Citation losing 4 of 5 to Noor. Forego losing 2 of 3 to Big Spruce. John Henry losing 2 of 3 to Interco. Dr Fager losing 2 of 4 to Damascus. Skip Away losing 4 of 6 to Formal Gold. Pleasant Colony losing 3 of 4 to Akureyri. Etc. Noor,Beau Purple,SS,Big Spruce,Interco,Formal Gold,etc all ahead on the scoreboard head to head.
You are missing the point,Bill Christine,like probably many of the experts are contradictory because they are stating their OPINIONS.When B.Christine writes two articles(6/89-"PVals aggressiveness OVERWHELMS Day's usual patience" &11-89-"It's time Easy Goer has a different rider."),at different times of the year,SPECIFICALLY criticizing Day's riding HIMSELF with his own opinions its pretty clear he has opinions(some contradicting).We have already figured out many of them have contr."opinions."
By the way, when you copy and paste comments like you have been doing, Youtube automatically lists them as spam, just letting you know, because you are copying and pasting.
You guys -- EASYGOER4LIFE, DELMARCLUB1, FLYLION132, EASYGOERFLIES -- are missing the point. Bill Christine's comments are directed more at you than they are at EG vs SS. You are the kind of Easy Goer supporters who Bill Christine says are too partisan to realize the simple fact that EG lost 3 out of 4 to SS, because SS was too nimble. Easy Goer met his match in Sunday Silence and was only good enough to win one out of four.
But like the Bloodhorse said in the Easy Goer article, "Easy Goer MET those dreams and expectations embodied in his powerful frame and authored an unforgettable Hall of Fame champion career,and will always be mentioned in the same breath with the GREATEST of ALL TIME." And this in spite of the nostril and desperate neck losses to another great due to start and stop,stop and start,stop and start Day riding that Bill Christine talks about in regards to Day.
Christine, Crist and the rest? That west coaster Jay Hovdey also-"To define Easy Goer's Hall of Fame career in terms of S.S. is blatantly unfair. Easy Goer was a remarkable Hall of Famer and a better horse, much like the 1960 Yankees of Mantle,Maris,Ford,Berra,Richardson, who outscored the Pirates 55-27 in the series and had the world series MVP."
Bill Christine? The man who wrote the article "P.Val's aggressiveness OVERWHELMS Pat Day's usual patience" and stated Pat Day made 3 big mistakes to get the best horse beat a whisker. And the Christine who also wrote the article, "It's time Easy Goer gets a different rider"? What a hypocrite he must be. He must be contradictory lol. And so must Crist,Nack,Edwin Pope,Paul Moran,Wayne Lukas,Woody Stephens and Pat Day who called his own riding "total rider errors & I got the better horse beat."
Bill Christine writes about people like DELMARCLUB, FLYLION, EASYGOERFLIES, EASYGOER4LIFE thusly: "By the time Sunday Silence had beaten Easy Goer for the 3rd time, in the Breeders Cup Classic at Gulfstream Park, the loser's supporters concluded that jockey Pat Day, not the ability of the horses, was the difference. Day may have been outridden by Valenzuela at Pimlico, in 1 of the best Preaknesses ever, but in reality Sunday Silence won with a turn of foot that usually left Easy Goer gasping"
Why do you Easy Goer fanatics CONSISTENTLY mark as spam comments made by those who disagree with you? Could it be that you can dish it out, but you can't take it?
Yes, it is the Bill Christine that said the loser's supporters lay the blame on Pat Day. but "in reality Sunday Silence won with a turn of foot that left Easy Goer gasping." Easy Goer's supporters like FLYLION132, EASYGOERFLIES, EASYGOER4LIFE, DELMARCLUB etc. are wrong to lay the blame on Pat Day according to Bill Christine. They are simply looking for a scapegoat, because they can't bear the truth that the better horse won 3 out of 4.
Only Bill Christine? No. Like many of the racing experts from both coasts(Christine,Crist,Nack,Pope,Moran,etc) stated and even trainers Wayne Lukas and Woody Stephens also stated, but stated the most correct by espn's Paul Moran, "Easy Goer is the better,faster,more extraordinary,phenomenal horse,but was defeated by a whisker & desperate neck in two races because Pat Day rode him like "the exposed end of a live wire." IMO I agree.
BILL CHRISTINE? You mean the Californian expert who wrote in his article titled "P.Val's aggressiveness OVERWHELMS Day's usual patience" that P.Day made three big mistakes to get him beat a whisker, and P.Val made two correct moves to win by a whisker. And Bill Christine who titled his article "IT's time Easy Goer gets a different rider." Gasping? Is a whisker and desperate neck gasping? I wonder what 8 lengths must be? awe inspiring?
Bill Christine writes about people like DELMARCLUB, FLYLION, EASYGOERFLIES, EASYGOER4LIFE thusly: "By the time Sunday Silence had beaten Easy Goer for the 3rd time, in the Breeders' Cup Classic at Gulfstream Park, the loser's supporters concluded that jockey Pat Day, not the ability of the horses, was the difference. Day may have been outridden by Valenzuela at Pimlico, in 1 of the best Preaknesses ever, but in reality Sunday Silence won with a turn of foot that usually left Easy Goer gasping"
But Easy Goer was always undoubtedly, in talent,ability,constitution,record speed-stamina combo, a top ten all timer, with the proof of that coming from his many,many top ten all time performances in his life at every distance,6.5F,7F,8F,9F,10F,12F, but the 2 typically atrocious Pat Day rides that got him beat a nose and desperation neck in 2 races put him down into the thirties where ss always belonged. I guess the thirties isn't too shabby though.
Who opened a new account today? Hmm...Spanked? You call a nose and desperate neck due to typically atrocious Pat Day riding getting spanked? I wonder what you call getting beat by 8 lengths and losing a Grade 2 race to Prized,who lost to Easy Goer by 20 lengths?...Well, Citation lost 4 of 5 to Noor. Kelso lost 3 of 4 to Beau Purple. Dr Fager lost 2 of 4 to Damascus. Skip Away lost 4 of 6 to Formal Gold. Forego lost 2 of 3 to Big Spruce. John Henry lost 2 of 3 to Interco.
Easy Goer was simply the vastly faster and better horse! Easy Goer ran seven or eight 120+ or higher beyers in his career(DOUBLE the amount of any horse since Bid, including Ghostzapper,Cigar,Skip Away,Holy Bull,Zenyatta,Alysheba,John Henry,Formal Gold,Curlin,etc), while SS ran ONE!!ONE!! Pat Day's self admittedly despicable riding got the better,faster horse beat an inch and desperate neck in two races. And Easy Goer did win outside NY,and did NOT lose by an inch&desp.neck in FL&MD b/c of where
Actually like the BloodHorse book states on Easy Goer: "Easy Goer MET those dreams and expectations embodied in his powerful frame, and authored an unforgettable Hall of Fame champion career, and will always be mentioned in the same breath with the GREATEST of ALL TIME." And this in spite of the awful start and stop,stop and start,stop and start,start and stop,stop and start Pat Day riding that cost him by a nostril & desperate neck in two outs vs. an also great in S.S.
@EASYGOER4LIFE Sad that you losers can not admit you got spanked 3 out of 4 times and that Easy Goer was weak and never won outside of NY. Scoreboard...Silence always will be the better horse. Don't blame the jock. We didn't care for our jock either.
Bill Christine from California, "P.Val's aggressiveness OVERWHELMS Day's usual patience and Pat Day made three mistakes and errors in his ride to get Easy Goer beat a whisker." Pat Day's usual terrible riding getting the better horse beat a whisker and desperate neck in two races is what burns everybody. Pat Day calls his own riding "total jockey errors."
@flylion132 Sad that you losers can not admit you got spanked 3 out of 4 times and that Easy Goer was weak and never won outside of NY. Scoreboard...Silence always will be the better horse. Don't blame the jock. We didn't care for our jock either.
What a race! PVal going gangsta on PDay! It doesn't matter how much time passes, you guys keep spitting out the same tired excuses. It has to kill you guys that Easy Goer's 3 year old campaign was was thwarted by a horse that nobody wanted! Easy Goer who was destined for all time greatness had to play second fiddle to a throwaway horse who most considered second class from the beginning! That's what burns you guys most, admit it!
Nose to nose, cheek by jowls the whole length of the stretch, two great horses nose to nose, no matter how bad Day's ride was, and how Day called his riding "complete rider error."
Day absolutely did not cut him off. He flew by him and passed him without cutting him off at all. Actually, PVal carried and floated Easy Goer and Day out to the center of the track down the backstretch. Day overreacts and guns EG through a monster,premature move down the backstretch because P.Val floated and carried him.Then Day gets outmanuevered for the stretch,gets trapped down in tight scraping the rail&being banged in even tighter by P.Val,then Day cocks his head in deep stretch with lead.
History also says that Citation lost 4 of 5 to Noor. Kelso lost 3 of 4 to Beau Purple. Dr Fager lost 2 of 4 to Damascus...Forego lost 2 of 3 to Big Spruce...John Henry lost 2 of 3 to Interco....Skip Away lost 4 of 6 to Formal Gold.
When you copy and paste your comments, Youtube automatically spams the comment or comments and they automatically don't show up. Just for your information.
Absolutely. Easy Goer was always a top ten all timer in speed-stamina record combo,talent,ability,constitution, with the clear evidence of that coming from his many,many top ten all time performances at all distances,6.5F,7F,8F,9F,10F,12F, but what sent him into the thirties was Pat Day's typically atrocious riding that got him beat a nose and desperation neck in 2 races vs. an also great ss.
What an awesome race! Sunday Silence in tight quarters approaching the far turn, loses ground. The horse regains his footing makes up lost ground and at the top of the stretch is even with Easy Goer. From there, the horse that wanted it the most, won the race!
Easy Goer was better and I am a native Californian. Facts state clearly. Must all bea delusional.Just like Noor beating Citation 4 of 5. Just like Beau Purple beating Kelso 3 of 4 races. Just like Damascus beating Dr Fager 2 of 4. Just like Big Spruce beating Forego 2 of 3. Just like Mehmet beating John Henry 2 of 3.Just like Formal Gold beating Skip Away 4 of 6. Just like Akureyri beating Pleasant Colony 3 of 4. Just like Star Of Cozzene beating Kotashaan 3 times.Etc.
Easy Goer had a full furlong to pass and couldn't. The little California pony fed him his lunch; fed it to him for the Derby and the BC Classic. Only the delusional could ever come to the conclusion that EG was better. The facts state that clearly. Just some more NY little girls who think they can revise history. Deal with it.
And no Hall of Fame champ who runs the fastest three year old mile in history in 1:32:2,shattering Secretariat's record by 5 lengths,and a blink off Dr. Fager's world record set at the age of 4, and runs the second fastest Belmont St. of all time with only Secretariat ever faster,and runs many of the best,most prestigious races right on tr.records, and loses by an inch in MD and by a desprate neck in FL due to admittedly despicably bad Pat Day riding, can be.
Actually Easy Goer DID win outside NY. And further more, Easy Goer did NOT lose by an inch in MD and by a desperate neck in FL because of what state they were run in. He lost by an inch in MD and by a desperate neck in FL because of Pat Day's self admittedly despicable riding.
Like the BH Top 100 book states, "Easy Goer will always be mentioned in the same breath with the greatest of ALL TIME", and that is in spite of the two awful awful start and stop,start and stop,start and stop rides that cost him by a nostril and desperate neck vs. another great in SS.
@EASYGOER4LIFE You can't back up your claim that Easy Goer automatically wins those two races if Pat Day rides him differently. You have to run those races with Pat Day ridding him differently to find out. It is by no means a foregone conclusion. You have to run those races.
Sunday Silence kept finding a way to beat Easy Goer just as Affirmed found a way to beat his daddy Alydar. Obviously without SS or EG or Aff or Aly any of the four would have been a TC winner. Same as Bet Twice. In 87 and 89 had alysheba or SS/EG not been there we would have had 2 more TC winners. Not short changing Real Quiet and Victory Gallop either . These are all great horses that if it were not for their rival in the race would be TC winners. I love this sport !!!
It isn't surprising for the loser of a close race to do Monday morning quarterbacking afterwards. However, it isn't a foregone conclusion that EG wins if Day rides him differently. You have to RUN that race to find out. Consider what many including Day said was his worst mistake - the big premature move in the backstretch. Suppose Day doesn't make that move & SS builds a bigger lead in the final turn as a result. Does EG run SS down in the stretch? You have to RUN that race to find out.
DELMARCLUB1: Could those "much stronger aggressive greats Cordero, Pincay, and Bailey" have been too aggressive? Apparently so because combined they did not win as many Preakness Stakes's as Pat Day did on his own. He also won more triple crown races than any of them and is the only jockey to get a mount in each of the first 20 Breeders Cups.
There may be no evidence that the horses you listed as winners COULD run faster, but there is also no evidence that they COULD NOT run faster. On the other hand, in EGs case we know with a high degree of certainty that he either ran as fast as he possibly could going down the stretch of the Preakness and simply ran out of gas or that he was not running as fast as he could & simply quit.
According to your final time assumptions on all these horses, for three year olds at a mile,Easy Goer is #1 all time, and at a mile and a half, Easy Goer is #2 all time with Secretariat #1? Also, only Tri Jet was ever faster than EG at Saratoga at 9f up til that point,and only General Assembly &Honest Pleasure were ever faster than Easy Goer at 10f at Saratoga,&as a two year old,Easy Goer was among the fastest two year olds of all time also,with Slew and Devil's Bag. Your ass. from final times
EG and SS ran faster than Slew,Bid,Alydar,Affirmed,Arts and Letters,Majestic Prince,Bet Twice,Alysheba,Free House,Silver Charm,Captain Bodgit,Touch Gold,Native Dancer,Nashua,Damascus,Skip Away,Bold Forbes,Bold Ruler. There is NO evidence that any of these winners or losers could have run faster, none at all.
Tanks Prospect, Curlin, L Quartorze, Summer Squall, Gate Dancer, Secretariat, and SS all ran faster than EG. Also unlike EG they actually WON their races. Winning counts for something, doesn't it? There is NO evidence that most of the horses you list you won couldn't have run faster. They ran fast enough to win. Some won easily. Oh yeah, at least a couple of the losers, Street Sense & Chiefs Crown, ran faster than EG. Unlike many of the others we know EG could not run faster. He lost
EG and SS ran faster than Affirmed,Alydar,Slew,Bid,Arts and Letters-Majestic Prince, Free House and Silver Charm,Bet Twice and Alysheba,Nashua,Bold Forbes,Skip Away,Bold Ruler,Native Dancer,Damascus,Chief's Crown,Skip Away,Point Given,etc etc, plenty of losers in this comment. Must have all been "out of gas", WIN or LOSE. Extremely slow 19.3 or 19 3/5=Seattle Slew,Bid,Native Dancer,Silver Charm,Free House,Bet Twice,Alysheba,Citation,Nashua,Bold Forbes,Bold Ruler must have all been extremely slow
LOL! Easy Goer and SS ran FASTER in 1:53.4 than Slew,Bid and Affirmed's Preakness Stakes. They all, including EG,SS,Slew,Affirmed,Bid,must have been "out of gas" at the end, while TP came from far,far,far back off a suicidal pace set by E.Prince and Chief's Crown and LQ. Funny how EG's beyer in the Preakness and all of his races were far superior to what Tank's Prospect or LQ ran in their Preakness Stakes. And so were Slew,Aff,Bid and SS!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
@flylion132 Slew, Bid, Affirmed ran as fast as they had to in order to win. There is no concrete evidence that they were out of gas or that they could not have run any faster since they ran fast enough to win. EG on the other hand LOST and did so running an extremely slow 19.6 sec over the last 3/16ths. Either EG was out of gas OR he simply quit. I choose to believe the former.
Pat Day is the 2nd winningest jockey in the history of the Preakness. One of his wins was aboard Tanks Propsect who set the Preakness record. Another of his wins occurred aboard Louis Quartorze who tied that record. EG ran the 1st mile of his Preakness in the same 1:34.2 as Tanks Prospect, but unlike TP, EG ran out of gas at the end. He did the final 3/16 much more slowly than TP & as a result lost to SS. TP simply had more gas in his "Tank" at the end than EG.
Pat Day's riding was so despicably bad that even the Californian Bill Christine stated the obvious, it surely wasn't just Patsy Day admitting the obvious about his own despicable riding, or all the eastern experts, that is for sure. Pat Day-"totally rider error." Easy Goer,7 or 8 120+or higher beyers(double more than any horse since Bid) in his life,SS ran one his life. The great equalizer=Pat Day's despicably bad riding.
So you are saying your "pot is as black as the kettle" then! I should be more critical of the repetitive comments on both sides indeed, but I never saw,within a week, 500-900 of the same comments from both sides on the fence,and that includes Easy Goer fans! I will say it again, I have been a bit critical of some of Day's ride indeed, but in every comment of my own, I always state they were two great champions no matter what my critiques,nose to nose,neck to neck.
That“s "the pot calling the kettle black”. You've continued to post your own repetitive comments and the same few EG fanatics continue to post the same comments, almost verbatim as they have done thousands of times before, about Pat Day being totally responsible for EGs losses in the BC & Preakness. You never lift a voice in protest. You agree with them. It is only when I present an opposing view that you get up on your sanctimonious high horse & complain about repetition.
How old are you? Had no problem? It certainly is a free country to leave as many repetitive comments on both sides of the fence, so be my guest and do as you please and act like a seven year old,and do what the other side of the fence does. As for myself, I may have been a bit critical of some of Day's rides, but in every comment I have ever left,I have said I stated these were two great horses none the less. Nose to nose,cheek by jowls,no matter how many mistakes Day made.
If you think this is totally & absolutely absurd, you are free to ignore it. The # of comments is not about 500. There are over 10,000 on many Youtube sites made by a few, ALL of which essentially say one thing: EG would be ranked an all time great were it not for P Day's incompetence. Clearly you agree & had no problem with all these posts until some began stating the opposing view that no one can PROVE that EG would have fared better if Day wasn't his jockey.
This is totally and absolutely absurd. Is over 500 comments of the same repetitive repeats not enough? Do you need another 500 comments?Is all of you saying the same thing over 500 times not enough? And I am talking about BOTH sides of this, Easy Goer and Sunday Silence fans. This is crap by both sides of the fence.Day's many mistakes,agree or not, agree to disagree. Leave it alone.Two greats nose to nose no matter all of the mistakes. Agree to disagree.
There is not way you can prove that if Cordero, Pincay or Bailey were on board that EG would have won this race. You don't have a shred of evidence to back this up, the opinion of a few horse racing pundits notwithstanding. All we can say with any certainty is that SS won this race, along with the Derby and B.C. fair and square.
That's a nonsense argument about EG "stopping" & "starting" & the implication the slowing down and speeding up at different points of a race is bad. Horse make tactical bursts of speed in the middle of races, slow down, & then speed up later on in races all the time & still they win. Think Dr Fager didn't take a "breather" after running the 2nd qtr of his WR mile in 20.6 seconds? You think he maintained that speed all they way to the finish? Think again and his WR still stands today.
Put much stronger,aggressive greats Cordero,Pincay,Bailey on Easy Goer and Easy Goer never gets beat a nose and desperation neck in 2 races due to being out ridden and schooled with race riding and antics, very poorly timed moves, typically atrocious Pat Day riding. No doubts at all.
@DELMARCLUB1 - That is total and complete crap, Sunday Silence had more heart than Easy Goer, and proved it taking 3 of 4. You can try your revisionist history, but 500 years from now the winner will still be... SUNDAY SILENCE!
@DELMARCLUB1 Sad that you losers can not admit you got spanked 3 out of 4 times and that Easy Goer was weak and never won outside of NY. Scoreboard...Silence always will be the better horse. Don't blame the jock. We didn't care for our jock either.
Pat Day's typical typical typically atrocious riding and being schooled and outridden by other jocks did not only cost Easy Goer by a nose and desperation neck in 2 races. Pat Day's typically atrocious riding and being schooled and out ridden cost so many horses eclipse awards and huge races- Java Gold,Easy Goer,Sky Classic,Turkoman,Forty Niner,Menifee,Summer Squall,Timber Country,Heavenly Prize,Seeking the Gold,Paradise Creek,Banshee Breeze,Surfside and so many more
@DELMARCLUB1 If Pat Day's rides were "typically atrocious" as you claim, he would not be ranked 2nd all time in Preakness wins behind the great Eddie Arcaro. Neither would he be ranked something around 3rd all time in triple crown wins. Neither would he be one of the winningest breeders cup jockeys and the only one to get a mount in each of the first 20 breeders cups.
@DELMARCLUB1 It doesn't matter that the great jockey Pat Day said his riding was "complete and outright and entirely and wholly jockey error,which caused the flare of a nostril, and that he was on the better horse and his complete,outright,entire,wholly jockey error cost him", it doesn't entirely matter because in the end, it was two all time great hall of fame champs nose to nose,cheek by jowls the entire length of the stretch,both running one of the fastest Preakness'.
@DELMARCLUB1 I agree. Pat Day's riding was just downright terrible. He made all those mistakes and errors earlier in this race, and Easy Goer still most definitely wins if Day doesn't,with a short lead, throw his head to look back at s.s., like EG is some gymnast with his body straight and his head cocked, then down a slim lead, when Day straightens his head back up, EG re gains the lead. Day calling his riding "wholly jockey error" is correct.
No doubt at all that the start and stop,start and stop,start and stop "I let him down gave him a breather around the far turn" awful kid gloves and baby hand rides cost Easy Goer big time by a nostril and desperate neck. Easy Goer was not a start and stop,start and stop,"I let him down and gave him a breather around the far turn". Easy Goer was big,powerhouse,locomotive,long and powerful strides, not a start and stop,,start and stop,let him down,breathers horse.
Making a big move in the backstretch where EG gained position & forced SS 1 1/2 lengths back of Houston was not a bad move. Neither was taking a breather in the turn where the long striding EG does not operate as efficiently as the more nimble SS. It placed EG less than one length from the lead at the top of the stretch where he is faster than SS. The race boiled down to the fact that Day didn’t have quite enough horse under him to get the job done. It’s easy to Monday morning quarterback.
Over 500 comments on this repetitive stuff.When is this never ending repetitive repeats going to end? 500 comments worth of this? How do you people have the time all morning,day and night to repeat 500 comments worth of this crap. Two great horses nose to nose,cheek by jowls to the wire, no matter how many errors and mistakes that Pat Day made, true or not, agree or disagree. Agree to disagree folks. End this never ending 500 comments worth of repetitiveness.
Actually, flylion132, you suggested earlier that Pat Day could have given EG a breather in the far turn and still won the race. According to you, all Pat Day has to do is keep EG to the outside and off the rail in the stretch and he wins the race. If EG could have won the race by staying well of the rail, then he could have won the race after having taken a breather in the backstretch. You are contradicting your claim that "you can't do that".
Pat Day gave Easy Goer "breathers" around the far turn in both whisker and desperate neck losses. You can't do that, with the advantage and the lead or without the lead. Either/or, both mistakes by Day. P.Val's beliefs? Where do you get that from P.Val's quotes of "I maybe could have moved in between both horses.I have plenty of room in between BOTH horses, but EG moved by me so quickly,I was shocked Day moved him that early."
All you have to do is watch the head on video of this and it is on Youtube,right here on Youtube, and the link is right here on this video titled, "SS Preakness 1997- A look back" to see what P.Val did and where he was positioned.
As far as P Day's breather is concerned, flylion132 said P Val was surprised by EG's fast move in the backstretch because it happened so EARLY in the race. Evidently, "the great" Pat V did not believe that EG could sustain that kind of speed all the way to the wire. It seems that, during the race, Pat Day had his own doubts about that & felt he needed to give the EG a breather. Conceivably, EG actually needed a breather & would not have been able to run that hard all the way to the finish.
Not so flylion132. SS was right alongside Houston at the time EG passed, not far to the outside of Houston as you suggest. If Pat V had positioned SS much further to the right of Houston than he was at the time EG passed, no way P Val is squeezed between #7 & EG, steadies him, & drops 1 1/2 lengths back. After all, the DRF definition of "steadied" implies SS was in "tight quarters".
I agree with him, it did overwhelm Pat Day. You put Angel Cordero,Laffit Pincay,Jerry Bailey on board Easy Goer and Easy Goer NEVER gets beat a nose and desperation neck in 2 races due to being owned,schooled and outridden and typically atrocious Pat Day rides.
Pat Day's typically atrocious riding and being owned and schooled and outridden was not only witnessed and stated by the obvious experts on Easy Goer in 2 races by a nose and desperation neck. No way. His typically atrocious riding cost so many other horses- Java Gold in 87,Easy Goer,Sky Classic in 92,Turkoman in 86,Forty Niner in 88,Menifee in 99,Heavenly Prize in 94&95,Paradise Creek,Seeking the Gold,Banshee Breeze,Surfside and so many more.
And not only did this exchange get me to correct you on all your completely inaccurate and false terminology, but it got me to even agree more with Bill Christine of the LA Times the more I watched it, "P.Val's aggessiveness OVERWHELMED Day's usual patience", and how Pat Day made 3 big mistakes to cost him,while P.Val made 2 correct moves to help him win.
No, this exchange was ALL ABOUT you using wrong terminology such as "decelerated rapidly and sharply", and "major blunder and boneheaded and idiotic" that needed to be corrected. As for the breather, read "Greatest Rivalries" book, and if you don't believe Pat Day's own words on his own mistakes, all you have to do is watch EG just coast right next to Houston the entire turn when he easily could have inhaled him, but Day gave him a breather &that led to Day's multiple stretch mistakes also
Further to the outside? You obviously can't see or don't know anything. P.Val DID POSITION his horse very wide and did that to carry out EG in the process,and the ONLY reason Day made that monster premature move was because he was worried about being taken even wider around the turn by P.Val AGAIN. Watch the head on, the video is on YT. Listen to Pat Day &P.Val talk, read the "Greatest Rivalries" book,read the quotes from both. Jeez,learn something.
P.Val DID POSITION him way outside, he CARRIED EG to the middle of the track with his race riding games and antics. All you have to do is watch the head on on the video "SS Preakness segment 1997" A look back to see that. Wrong again,when P.Val saw EG coming early in the backside he floated and carried him OUT to the middle of the track. Once again, wrong again. Keep trying Grampa.
The other thing this exchange demonstrated is that placing all of the blame for EGs loss on P Day is biased & illogical. Both Pat V & Pat Day executed poorly at some times & well at others. Even your claim that Pat Day blundered when giving EG a "breather" is something you cannot PROVE. Maybe EGs quick move on the backstretch in which he squeezed EG between himself & two horses, which surprised Pat V, was strong enough & occurred early enough that he needed a breather.
Actually in the course of this exchange, I got you to admit that Pat Day did execute a well timed move getting SS in tight quarters beween EG & Houston. This caused Pat V to have to steady SS & fall 1 1/2 lengths back of Houston while EG was speeding on by Houston. You also acknowledge by going wide, Pat V could have avoided this. Indeed, Pat V could have gone wide at the time he passed #3 which would have ensured he would not be squeezed between Houston and EG when EG passed him.
At the time SS passes the #3 horse, long before he comes alongside Houston, he could have positioned his horse further to the outside. If he had done that, EG still would have been able to pass SS. Maybe he even would have passed SS to his inside. However, he would not have been able to squeeze SS, fairly and cleanly, between Houston and himself, requiring Pat V to steady his horse and fall 1 1/2 lengths behind Houston. SS would have been too far to the outside of Houston for that.
P.Val place him? P.Val was into between two horses with room to move in between both horses but wasn't fast enough&got passed fairly,w/o cutting him off. Day had the lead,then he says"I have him a breather and let him down".&yes P.Day should not have done the "I gave him a breather around the far turn" &got outmaneuvered for the stretch,getting pinned on the rail &turned for home a few paths off the rail.Now.PVal("our boots were bangin") smartly didn't cut off him but kept banging him into rail
Pat Val shouldn't have placed SS in a position where EG could pass him fairly and cleanly and squeeze him between Houston and himself just like Pat Day shouldn't have placed EG in position where SS could squeeze him, fairly and cleanly close to the rail in the stretch. Of course Pat Day could have steadied EG in the stretch, dropped 1 1/2 lengths back of SS & then charge past SS on the outside. The again, it seems EG just was not fast enough on this day.
YOU are FORGETTING that the outside horse that passes you fairly and cleanly takes YOUR position fairly and cleanly, and there already is a horse inside of you in his established fair position, you then lose your position because the horse outside of you passed you fairly and there already is a horse with established position inside of you. But P.Val said he had room and could move in between BUT EG went by him too fast and quick.The only option is to go wide or hope Day goes wide.
Hilarious. P.Val quote, " I HAD ROOM in between the two horses if I wanted to move in between them, but Easy Goer moved by me too quickly." Simple, one horse passes him cleanly and fairly, and Houston already has his position and was running very fast himself at that point. The difference? When a horse passes on the outside of you fairly w/o cutting you off, and there is already a horse inside of you, you lose your position due to the outside horse passing you. Not a bonehead,major blunder
Easy Goer was not fast enough to prevent SS from squeezing in on him along the rail in the stretch. SS ran cleanly & EG had a clear path to the wire throughout. However, if quarters were too tight for EG on the rail, Pat Day could always have done to SS what Pat V had done to EG earlier when sandwiched in between Houston & EG. He could have steadied EG, causing him to fall 1 1/2 lengths behind SS, & then charged past SS on the outside to victory. Then again, maybe EG just was not fast enough.
The DRF definition of "steadied" suggests that SS did not have room to run, by definition, at the time he was steadied. Getting into that position was a mistake even though he could NOT have prevented EG from passing him.
Horses do not routinely get steadied and fall back 1 1/2 lengths every time another horse passes them. Typically when one horse gets passed by another horse, the horse that gets passed does NOT have to be steadied or lose momentum as a result the way SS did here. The fact that Pat V got SS into a position where he had to steady him and fall 1 1/2 lengths behind Houston, when EG passed him, was a mistake.
And that is why Easy Goer,a Hall of Famerwho combined blazingrecord speed(1:32)at a mile and at shorter distances(near tr.record at 6.5f,fastest 7f of yr in Florida,among the top 5 all time fastest Champagnes at 8f),with a supreme&brilliant stamina to run the second fastest Belmont of all time,near tr.records in Whitney at 9f,Travers&Suburban at 10f.It was the awful start&stop,start&stop,"I gave him a breather around the far turn",kid gloves rides that cost him a nostril&desp.neck in two outs
That is NOT being out "foxed" or out ridden at all. When you HAVE ROOM in between BOTH horses and your horse gets passed by a faster horse cleanly,fairly and without being cut off at all. That is not a "boneheaded, major blunder, or idiotic" bad ride, and it is also the farthest thing from "rapid and sharp deceleration". P.Day got outridden with race riding antics, 3 mistakes by Day and 2 correct race riding and outmaneuvering traps by P.Val. I agree with Bill Christine.
Pat Val got outfoxed by Day in a move that was well-timed moved. He could not have prevented EG from passing SS, but could have avoided placing SS in a position where P Val pulls up alongside SS and was suddenly forced to steady SS, and as a result drops 1 1/2 lengths behind Houston. That cost SS valuable momentum.
Timing his move? Well unfortunately his horse wasn't fast enough at this point of the race and got passed fairly and w/o being cut off. EG got position on him because he was faster at this point of the race, nothing P.Val could do, he said he had room. That is still very,very far from being a "boneheaded,major blunder,idiotic bad ride" and also from "decelerating rapidly or sharply". Day also could have done alot of things differently in regards to getting trapped,banged and cocking his head
It seems to me Pat V might have been able to prevent being caught between Houston on his left and EG by timing his move on Houston differently or by positioning himself wider on the track. Those are a couple of things that might have made it more difficult for EG to get position on him requiring him to be steadied and to suddenly fall 1 1/2 lengths behind Houston losing momentum.
That is fine with me.Day made mistakes at subsequent points in here,I can agree with that.I mean the premature move wasn't necessarily bad,it just took a little more out of him in deep stretch,but that was ok.It was more not finishing the move.That is why the experts&many people call Day's riding on EG "start then stop,start then stop, start and stop" and that was because Day said "I let him down and gave him a breather around the far turn",and not only in this race.EG was NOT a start&stop horse
And also trap or being trapped refers to a horse being trapped between the rail and another horse close in tight, like Easy Goer in this race. SS was not trapped, he had to go around and that was because at that point he got passed cleanly,fairly and w.o being cut off. It is not trapped when you have to go around because you lost your position being passed by a horse.
I wouldn't say that this well timed move was necessarily premature. If Day made mistakes at subsequent points in the race, it does not necessarily mean that this move was bad or premature. All it means is Day made mistakes at subsequent points of the race.
Day has made a well timed premature move? Ok fine, then Day says after making that great move " I let him down and gave him a breather" and this quote is in the "Greatest Rivalries" book. And no that is NOT a trap at all. It is simply a faster horse passing another horse and taking his position, and P.Val said he had room in between horses,but EG was just too fast at this point,passed him w/o cutting him off and cleanly and fairly. The only thing P.Val could have done was go wide or hope Day did
@flylion132 Absolutely agree. Pat Day NEVER realized the total obvious that Easy Goer was absolutely not a start and stop,start and stop,start and stop, "I gave him a breather around the far turn" in both races horse. Easy Goer was big,extremely powerful horse, not a start and stop,start and stop "I gave him a breather around the far turn" awful kid gloves and baby hands rides. And then you add that he was completely outridden by Valenzuela.
It seems that for Day to cause Pat Val to suddenly drop 1 1/2 lengths in back of Houston, who EG has just passed, he has made a well timed move. I believe this is what Paulick called a trap. If he passes Houston before SS pulls along side Houston or if he passes when SS is too far up on Houston or past him, EG enters the turn with a smaller lead than what he had. Without this, SS who is faster in the turn, might have a bigger lead going into the stretch.
Just a question for you? How long do you want to debate something that you have been given the answers to hundreds of times? I mean, do you intend to debate this at infinitum, that has been answered by direct quotes from P.Val &P.Day,DRF charts,head on and pan video,and common sense answers as to why it was not "boneheaded,idiotic or a major blunder" and "decelerating rapidly and sharply" as you have said. I am assuming the answer is at infinitum.
All your questions are answered once again, so I will repeat it as many times as you need it. Easy Goer gained his position while passing him fairly,cleanly and w/o cutting him off , and Houston already had his own position established. So SS lost his position fairly &cleanly.The only answer at that point, when a horse loses his pos., is to either go around the two horses he lost it to or HOPE that P.Day idioticly would stay out way wide for him.The answer is common sense,common sense answer.
At this point where SS lost position, cleanly and fairly to EG, does SS still have a clear path to run past Houston, or does the fact that EG has gained position mean that SS does not have a clear path in front of him? If the latter is true, does the fact that P Val no longer has a clear path in front of him causes him to "steady" SS with the result that he falls 1 1/2 lengths or so behind Houston?
The answer is simple and has been stated a hundred times here for you. When you get passed cleanly,fairly and without being cut off, YOU LOSE YOUR POSITION fairly,cleanly and without being cut off. The only answer for P.Val would have been to go 3 or 4 wide which makes no sense b/c he said "HE HAD ROOM" in between both horses.The other answer would be to hope P.Day goes 4 or 5 wide into and around the far turn, but P.Val had already taken him out to the middle of the track,and lost his position
Look and read real closely at my comments and you will find the answer to that and the answers. Read real closely, concentrate now. All the answers are there for you, not just from my comments, but the direct quotes from P.Val,P.Day and the head on and pan shots as to why!The answers are there. Repeat, repeat, the answers are there
EG was a faster horse at this point in the race and ran past SS. We both agree on that. This does not explain why SS, who you say had plenty of room, didn't continue to move past Houston and instead dropped 1 1/2 lengths back.
The quotes from P.Val and P.Day and head on and pan video state the answer to that never ending question. SS HAD ROOM in between Easy Goer and Houston, but simply got passed by a faster horse, who did not cut him off, passed him fairly and cleanly and took his position. Farthest thing from your claims of a "boneheaded,major blunder,idiotic bad ride" and "rapid and sharp deceleration". Your answers are in all the direct quotes
You still haven't answered the question: Why does SS, who was making a move on Houston, pull alongside him and then quickly drop 1 1/2 lengths in back of Houston at the same time the EG as pulling ahead of Houston?
The question wasn't whether or not whether SS was fast enough to keep EG from passing him at this point. Let's agree that he could not keep EG from passing. The question is why does SS, who was making a fast move on Houston, pull along side Houston and suddenly Pat V steadies his horse and fall 1 1/2 lengths back? At the same time that SS falls 1 1/2 lengths behind Houston EG extends his lead on Houston.
He saw him clearly, but he figured his race riding antic of taking him out to the center of the track wouldn't cause Day to make that monster premature move. And P.Val clearly states I had ROOM IN BETWEEN EG and HOU if I wanted to." His horse wasn't faster on the straight at this point in the race. Certainly still wasn't a "boneheaded,major bluner,idiotic bad ride" and "decelerating rapidly and sharply." That is the whole point of your 24/7a thon
IT EXPLAINS it CLEARLY.His horse had room, he even states it,in between but was NOT fast enough at that point in the race to avoid being passed. The guy says it himself."I could have gone and SAT IN BETWEEN EG and HOU, but EG moved up so fast and got the advantage,I knew EG was going to make a monster, but not that early. Same article and in "Greatest Rivalries" book, Day says, "after being taken wide by P.Val &concerned about being floated wider on the turn,he made that move,then a breather."
The point is the quote is ambiguous. He says he could have followed EG, but did not, apparently because he was surprised. Does this mean that he was caught by surprise as Paulick claims and therefore did not position his horse so that he could follow EG and instead was caught in tight quarters? Does it mean that because he was surprised he got caught in tight quarters where he had to steady his horse which made him fall 1 1/2 lengths behind Houston?
This nonsense of P.Val not seeing him is just that: totally false. When you take a horse very wide out into to the middle of the track earlier on down the backside and you call it race riding, you see him clear as a sunshiney day.He is right next to him.That is completely false. Don't say he didn't see him or even saw him too late, those are not true. Maybe he didn't expect Day to make that monster premature move that early, but ohhhh he saw him clearly.
These are quotes in Ed Bowen's article in the May, 27, 1989 article in the Bloodhorse magazine. Who cares if he doesn't state that, these are direct quotes! Secondly, do you really care that Bill Christine,Bill Nack,Steve Crist,Paul Moran DID say Pat Day's multiple mistakes did cost the horse. I am sure you don't.This whole 24/7 a thon is about what happened,and huge errors in calling the riding "boneheaded,a major blunder,idiotic bad ride" and using wrong words "decelerated sharply and rapidly"
I haven't read this Bowen article, but I have read his chapter on the 89 Preakness in his book "At the Wire". In that, he does not express the view that the outcome of this race was determined by Pat Day mistakes.
The Pat V quote is ambiguous. It suggests that if he hadn't been "surprised", he would have gone with EG. Because of its ambiguity, it does not explain why SS, who was also making a strong move of his own alongside Houston, all of sudden steadies his horse just as he pulls alongside and quickly falls 1 1/2 lengths behind Houston just as EG passes him. Perhaps the fact that Pat V was surprised plus was in tight quarters (which is implied by the DRF definition of "steadied") explains this.
Here are some direct quotes from the Bloodhorse article by Ed Bowen dated May 27,1989 on the 1989 Preakness. Direct quotes. P.Val says, " I probably could have gone with EG and SAT IN BETWEEN him and Houston, I had room. BUT, Easy Goer moved up on the outside of me SO FAST and passed me. I did NOT think Day would make that kind of monster moveTHAT EARLY in the race." He says he had room,but got passed by a faster horse at that point.
That is mostly correct to me ,except for a few things you said. This steadied was far,far from "decelerating rapidly or sharply, or checking abruptly or sharply" or checking at all for that matter.Also, it is not error,boneheaded,a major blunder or an idiotic bad ride when there is nothing a jockey can do about a faster horse passing him without cutting him off and taking his position fairly and correctly.There was nothing the jock could do with this and I will give you some quotes.
The "tight quarters" were formed by Houston on SS's left & EG who in a perfectly timed move passed SS on the right and was angling to the left. SS was in tight quarters in between Houston and SS. With no where to go, Pat V "steadied" SS causing him to fall back from a position alongside Houston to one 1 1/2 lengths back. SS lost momentum & valuable ground to both Houston and EG in the process. Pat V erred in letting himself get caught in between Houston & EG. Paulick says he was trapped.
That is fine with me, but this is extremely far from "decelerating rapidly or sharply,or checked abruptly or sharply" or checked at all for that matter.& Easy Goer simply passed him w/o cutting him off at all and took his position. This was not a "boneheaded,a major blunder or idiotic bad ride" by a jock as you say.The jock couldn't do anything when a faster horse passes him w/o cutting him off. That is the point
The DRF definition of steadied speaks of a horse being taken in hand because they are in tight quarters. Clearly the quarters were too tight for SS to continue his charge past Houston in pursuit of EG. Instead, he had to be steadied. In little more than one second as the video shows, being steadied lost him a position right alongside Houston to a position 1 ½ lengths back. The fact that he lost this ground & valuable momentum in the process is clear from the video.
That is fine with me.&that was the case, in the definition, b/c a horse who was faster at that point in the race passed him without cutting him off or making "him decelerate rapidly or sharply, or check abruptly or sharply or check at all" actually and took his position. There is nothing a jock can do when a horse passes you fairly w/o cutting you off and takes your position,it was not a "boneheaded,major blunder or idiotic."
That's fine, having said that in your definitions, this is very very far from "decelerating rapidly or sharply, or checked sharply or abruptly or checked at all" for that matter.There is a huge difference between your take and the what happened. &EG simply passed him without cutting him off at all and took his position, this was not a"bonehead" ,"major blunder" or "idiotic bad ride" by a jock.The jock couldn't do anything when a faster horse passes him &takes his position w/o cutting him of
That's fine, having said that in your definitions, this is very very far from "decelerating rapidly or sharply, or checked sharply or abruptly or checked at all" for that matter. There is a huge difference between your take and the what happened. And EG simply passed him without cutting him off at all and took his position, this was not a"bonehead" ,"major blunder" or "idiotic bad ride" by a jock.The jock couldn't do anything when a faster horse passes him &takes his position w/o cutting him off
The DRF definition of steadied speaks of a horse being steadied because they are in tight quarters. Clearly the quarters were too tight for SS to continue his charge past Houston in pursuit of EG. Instead, he had to be steadied and as we see from the video, that caused him to lose ground in little more than a second from a position right alongside Houston to a position 1 ½ lengths behind.
The DRF definition of steadied speaks of a horse being taken in hand because they are in tight quarters. Those tight quarters were TOO TIGHT for SS to continue his charge past Houston in pursuit of EG. Being "steadied" caused him to lose ground from a position along side Houston to a postition 1 1/2 lengths behind in little more than a secon. He lost momentum in the process.
Fair enough. It is about overall better racehorses in regards to "many great horses having losing records" against others. PO did freak for a few races in the fall of 73', but unfortunately they only met in one race, and Steve Haskin is still stating "his opinion" that no horse could have beaten PO that day, it doesn't mean it's true,it's opinion.. After all,we know what Crist,Haskin,Hirsch,Nack,etc are all providing their opinions, as we all are.
DELMARCLUB1 3 weeks ago
I don't buy the excuses about Secretariats losses. The fact is sometimes he turned in lackluster performances like he did in the Wood Memorial. Also, I don't believe there was any way he was going to defeat Prove Out in the 1973 Woodward -- more workouts or no. Steve Haskin was correct in saying that no horse could have beaten Prove Out that day. That does not mean that I think Prove Out should be ranked higher than Secretariat or that PO ranks with the greatest thoroughbreds. He isn't close.
sl7293 3 weeks ago
Many great horses have losing records against good, but not great horses. It would be silly to rank the very horses higher than the greats because of this. Also, the fact that Dr Fager & Damascus are 2 and 2 does not mean they should be ranked equal.. Head to head competition against other horses is only one consideration in how they are ranked relative to one another.
sl7293 3 weeks ago
If your argument is that EG should be ranked 31 & SS 33, I don't have a problem with that. I believe, however, that SS has certain strengths that EG may not possess that makes him a difficult match up in races up to 1 1/4 mile. If EG was checked into Houston's hind qrtrs & forced to idle the way SS was in the Preakness, I don't believe he would have been able to accelerate catch SS in the turn like SS did. EG is at his best vs SS when he has clear sailing at long distances on wide turn tracks.
sl7293 3 weeks ago
Where did you go? Alright, got to run.
DELMARCLUB1 3 weeks ago
I agree, they are opinions on losses. Nack made a fortune on his book talking about Secretariat's 3 losses. Crist the same with Easy Goer(didn't handle the Churchill track and bad riding).
DELMARCLUB1 3 weeks ago
After all, these are still opinions, as I have and you have as well as everybody has-opinions. But Secretariat(3 losses due to a mouth abcess,low grade fever and not being trained for a particular race)-opinions. Dr Fager(2 losses due to a rabbit running)- Citation(ankles)- Easy Goer(atrocious Pat Day riding in Preakness&Classic, though some say the Classic due to 1 1/2mile prep,grueling campaign,horrible ankles,colic). Opinions on losses- I agree they are opinions.
DELMARCLUB1 3 weeks ago
Sl7293, for the record, I believe, in fact, I know that I would love for you to be the one to go on the Secretariat videos and talk about the low grade fever,mouth abcess and not being trained for a particular race excuses and reasons for his losses. And on the Dr Fager videos where the rabbits excuses and reasons, and the Citation videos blaming his ankles. Easy Goer & Citation both must have had some pretty bad ankles.
DELMARCLUB1 3 weeks ago
Are you stating that Beau Purple,Interco,Noor,Akureyri,Big Spruce,SS,Damascus,Formal Gold,etc were all overall better racehorses just because they were ahead on the scoreboard vs. Kelso,John Henry,Citation,Pleasant Colony,Forego,Dr Fager,Easy Goer,Skip Away,etc? Or is SS the only one because he was ahead?
DELMARCLUB1 3 weeks ago
I HAVE answered about the SPECIFICS of that in regards to the 1989 Preakness and 89 Classic a million times here!That is what your problem is, that everybody repeats these SPECIFICS a million times. My opinion is that Kelso,Citation,Easy Goer,Forego,John Henry,Dr Fager,Skp Away,etc were all overall better racehorses than the horses they were behind on the scoreboard to.Cases can certainly be made for Damascus,Formal Gold,ss,Noor,Beau Purple,etc being "overall better horses", but thats MY OPINION
DELMARCLUB1 3 weeks ago
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How could Kelso, Citation, Dr. Fager, Forego etc. lose the races you cite if they were better ON THE DAY OF THE RACE than their opponents were? Similarly how could Easy Goer lose the Preakness and Breeders Cup, if he was better than Sunday Silence ON THE DAY OF THE RACES which he lost to SS? Please answer both questions and be specifc.
sl7293 3 weeks ago
NO, it would be intelligent of you to actually read my comment(s). I said Kelso,Citation,Easy Goer,Skip Away,Forego,John Henry,Dr Fager,Pleasant Colony were ALL THE BETTER HORSES(to be very accurate I said JUST LIKE) that were behind on the scoreboard in head to heads. Can you read or you just chose not to read the comments?
DELMARCLUB1 3 weeks ago
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So Kelso, Dr Fager, Citation, Forego et al. all lost because they weren't good enough to win? EG was the only one of these great horses who lost because he was sabotaged due to circumstances beyond his control? Your point is, unlike all of the other horses you mention, Easy Goer's weaknesses & his opponents strengths were not the overriding factor in his losses. EG got sabotaged while all of the other horses you mention were defeated because their opponents were better. Is that your point?
sl7293 3 weeks ago
Who said I blame the behind on the scoreboard losses of Kelso,Citation,Skip Away,Dr Fager,Forego,John Henry,Pleasant Colony on jockey error?Not me.Is it my opinion that Day's typical riding got him beat a nose and desperation neck in 2 of his losses vs.an also great in ss? That is my opinion.Citation would definitely be top 70 because Noor is 69th.The bottom line is Kelso,Citation,EG,Skp Away,Forego,John Henry,Dr Fager,etcwere all behind or tied on scorebrd for a varietyof reasons(opinions)
DELMARCLUB1 3 weeks ago
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I don't blame the losses by Kelso, Citation, Forego, or Dr Fager's that you cite to jockey error the way you do with Easy Goer. They simply weren't good enough win on those days just like Easy Goer was not good enough to defeat Sunday Silence on three occasions. If Citation's reputation were based on his performance after age 3 and after his ankle injury, he definitely would not be a top 100 horse. He might not even rate in the top 1000. Noor was a better horse when those two squared off.
sl7293 3 weeks ago
Better horse? Easy Goer, the better horse, was behind on the scoreboard in head to head JUST LIKE Kelso losing 3 of 4 to Beau Purple. Citation losing 4 of 5 to Noor. Forego losing 2 of 3 to Big Spruce. John Henry losing 2 of 3 to Interco. Dr Fager losing 2 of 4 to Damascus. Skip Away losing 4 of 6 to Formal Gold. Pleasant Colony losing 3 of 4 to Akureyri. Etc. Noor,Beau Purple,SS,Big Spruce,Interco,Formal Gold,etc all ahead on the scoreboard head to head.
DELMARCLUB1 3 weeks ago
You are missing the point,Bill Christine,like probably many of the experts are contradictory because they are stating their OPINIONS.When B.Christine writes two articles(6/89-"PVals aggressiveness OVERWHELMS Day's usual patience" &11-89-"It's time Easy Goer has a different rider."),at different times of the year,SPECIFICALLY criticizing Day's riding HIMSELF with his own opinions its pretty clear he has opinions(some contradicting).We have already figured out many of them have contr."opinions."
flylion132 3 weeks ago
By the way, when you copy and paste comments like you have been doing, Youtube automatically lists them as spam, just letting you know, because you are copying and pasting.
flylion132 3 weeks ago
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You guys -- EASYGOER4LIFE, DELMARCLUB1, FLYLION132, EASYGOERFLIES -- are missing the point. Bill Christine's comments are directed more at you than they are at EG vs SS. You are the kind of Easy Goer supporters who Bill Christine says are too partisan to realize the simple fact that EG lost 3 out of 4 to SS, because SS was too nimble. Easy Goer met his match in Sunday Silence and was only good enough to win one out of four.
sl7293 3 weeks ago
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sl7293 3 weeks ago
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sl7293 3 weeks ago
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sl7293 3 weeks ago
But like the Bloodhorse said in the Easy Goer article, "Easy Goer MET those dreams and expectations embodied in his powerful frame and authored an unforgettable Hall of Fame champion career,and will always be mentioned in the same breath with the GREATEST of ALL TIME." And this in spite of the nostril and desperate neck losses to another great due to start and stop,stop and start,stop and start Day riding that Bill Christine talks about in regards to Day.
EASYGOER4LIFE 3 weeks ago
Christine, Crist and the rest? That west coaster Jay Hovdey also-"To define Easy Goer's Hall of Fame career in terms of S.S. is blatantly unfair. Easy Goer was a remarkable Hall of Famer and a better horse, much like the 1960 Yankees of Mantle,Maris,Ford,Berra,Richardson, who outscored the Pirates 55-27 in the series and had the world series MVP."
EASYGOER4LIFE 3 weeks ago
Bill Christine? The man who wrote the article "P.Val's aggressiveness OVERWHELMS Pat Day's usual patience" and stated Pat Day made 3 big mistakes to get the best horse beat a whisker. And the Christine who also wrote the article, "It's time Easy Goer gets a different rider"? What a hypocrite he must be. He must be contradictory lol. And so must Crist,Nack,Edwin Pope,Paul Moran,Wayne Lukas,Woody Stephens and Pat Day who called his own riding "total rider errors & I got the better horse beat."
flylion132 3 weeks ago 7
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Bill Christine writes about people like DELMARCLUB, FLYLION, EASYGOERFLIES, EASYGOER4LIFE thusly: "By the time Sunday Silence had beaten Easy Goer for the 3rd time, in the Breeders Cup Classic at Gulfstream Park, the loser's supporters concluded that jockey Pat Day, not the ability of the horses, was the difference. Day may have been outridden by Valenzuela at Pimlico, in 1 of the best Preaknesses ever, but in reality Sunday Silence won with a turn of foot that usually left Easy Goer gasping"
sl7293 3 weeks ago
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Why do you Easy Goer fanatics CONSISTENTLY mark as spam comments made by those who disagree with you? Could it be that you can dish it out, but you can't take it?
sl7293 3 weeks ago
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Yes, it is the Bill Christine that said the loser's supporters lay the blame on Pat Day. but "in reality Sunday Silence won with a turn of foot that left Easy Goer gasping." Easy Goer's supporters like FLYLION132, EASYGOERFLIES, EASYGOER4LIFE, DELMARCLUB etc. are wrong to lay the blame on Pat Day according to Bill Christine. They are simply looking for a scapegoat, because they can't bear the truth that the better horse won 3 out of 4.
sl7293 3 weeks ago
Only Bill Christine? No. Like many of the racing experts from both coasts(Christine,Crist,Nack,Pope,Moran,etc) stated and even trainers Wayne Lukas and Woody Stephens also stated, but stated the most correct by espn's Paul Moran, "Easy Goer is the better,faster,more extraordinary,phenomenal horse,but was defeated by a whisker & desperate neck in two races because Pat Day rode him like "the exposed end of a live wire." IMO I agree.
flylion132 3 weeks ago 5
BILL CHRISTINE? You mean the Californian expert who wrote in his article titled "P.Val's aggressiveness OVERWHELMS Day's usual patience" that P.Day made three big mistakes to get him beat a whisker, and P.Val made two correct moves to win by a whisker. And Bill Christine who titled his article "IT's time Easy Goer gets a different rider." Gasping? Is a whisker and desperate neck gasping? I wonder what 8 lengths must be? awe inspiring?
flylion132 3 weeks ago 5
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Bill Christine writes about people like DELMARCLUB, FLYLION, EASYGOERFLIES, EASYGOER4LIFE thusly: "By the time Sunday Silence had beaten Easy Goer for the 3rd time, in the Breeders' Cup Classic at Gulfstream Park, the loser's supporters concluded that jockey Pat Day, not the ability of the horses, was the difference. Day may have been outridden by Valenzuela at Pimlico, in 1 of the best Preaknesses ever, but in reality Sunday Silence won with a turn of foot that usually left Easy Goer gasping"
sl7293 3 weeks ago
But Easy Goer was always undoubtedly, in talent,ability,constitution,record speed-stamina combo, a top ten all timer, with the proof of that coming from his many,many top ten all time performances in his life at every distance,6.5F,7F,8F,9F,10F,12F, but the 2 typically atrocious Pat Day rides that got him beat a nose and desperation neck in 2 races put him down into the thirties where ss always belonged. I guess the thirties isn't too shabby though.
DELMARCLUB1 3 weeks ago 5
Who opened a new account today? Hmm...Spanked? You call a nose and desperate neck due to typically atrocious Pat Day riding getting spanked? I wonder what you call getting beat by 8 lengths and losing a Grade 2 race to Prized,who lost to Easy Goer by 20 lengths?...Well, Citation lost 4 of 5 to Noor. Kelso lost 3 of 4 to Beau Purple. Dr Fager lost 2 of 4 to Damascus. Skip Away lost 4 of 6 to Formal Gold. Forego lost 2 of 3 to Big Spruce. John Henry lost 2 of 3 to Interco.
DELMARCLUB1 3 weeks ago 5
Easy Goer was simply the vastly faster and better horse! Easy Goer ran seven or eight 120+ or higher beyers in his career(DOUBLE the amount of any horse since Bid, including Ghostzapper,Cigar,Skip Away,Holy Bull,Zenyatta,Alysheba,John Henry,Formal Gold,Curlin,etc), while SS ran ONE!!ONE!! Pat Day's self admittedly despicable riding got the better,faster horse beat an inch and desperate neck in two races. And Easy Goer did win outside NY,and did NOT lose by an inch&desp.neck in FL&MD b/c of where
EASYGOERFLIES 3 weeks ago 6
Actually like the BloodHorse book states on Easy Goer: "Easy Goer MET those dreams and expectations embodied in his powerful frame, and authored an unforgettable Hall of Fame champion career, and will always be mentioned in the same breath with the GREATEST of ALL TIME." And this in spite of the awful start and stop,stop and start,stop and start,start and stop,stop and start Pat Day riding that cost him by a nostril & desperate neck in two outs vs. an also great in S.S.
EASYGOER4LIFE 3 weeks ago 8
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@EASYGOER4LIFE Sad that you losers can not admit you got spanked 3 out of 4 times and that Easy Goer was weak and never won outside of NY. Scoreboard...Silence always will be the better horse. Don't blame the jock. We didn't care for our jock either.
SundayGreatest 3 weeks ago
Bill Christine from California, "P.Val's aggressiveness OVERWHELMS Day's usual patience and Pat Day made three mistakes and errors in his ride to get Easy Goer beat a whisker." Pat Day's usual terrible riding getting the better horse beat a whisker and desperate neck in two races is what burns everybody. Pat Day calls his own riding "total jockey errors."
flylion132 3 weeks ago 5
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@flylion132 Sad that you losers can not admit you got spanked 3 out of 4 times and that Easy Goer was weak and never won outside of NY. Scoreboard...Silence always will be the better horse. Don't blame the jock. We didn't care for our jock either.
SundayGreatest 3 weeks ago
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Coming to the final furlong.....Sunday Silence surges to the front!!!!
loujr92173 3 weeks ago
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What a race! PVal going gangsta on PDay! It doesn't matter how much time passes, you guys keep spitting out the same tired excuses. It has to kill you guys that Easy Goer's 3 year old campaign was was thwarted by a horse that nobody wanted! Easy Goer who was destined for all time greatness had to play second fiddle to a throwaway horse who most considered second class from the beginning! That's what burns you guys most, admit it!
loujr92173 3 weeks ago
Nose to nose, cheek by jowls the whole length of the stretch, two great horses nose to nose, no matter how bad Day's ride was, and how Day called his riding "complete rider error."
PhippsStable 1 month ago 3
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EASYGOERFLIES 1 month ago 5
Day absolutely did not cut him off. He flew by him and passed him without cutting him off at all. Actually, PVal carried and floated Easy Goer and Day out to the center of the track down the backstretch. Day overreacts and guns EG through a monster,premature move down the backstretch because P.Val floated and carried him.Then Day gets outmanuevered for the stretch,gets trapped down in tight scraping the rail&being banged in even tighter by P.Val,then Day cocks his head in deep stretch with lead.
EASYGOERFLIES 1 month ago 6
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Pat Day cut Sunday Silence around the far turn, causing Pat Valenzuela to check. That was some far turn run Sunday put in. Great race.
mrdramirez09 1 month ago
History also says that Citation lost 4 of 5 to Noor. Kelso lost 3 of 4 to Beau Purple. Dr Fager lost 2 of 4 to Damascus...Forego lost 2 of 3 to Big Spruce...John Henry lost 2 of 3 to Interco....Skip Away lost 4 of 6 to Formal Gold.
DELMARCLUB1 3 months ago 3
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PhippsStable 4 months ago 2
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EASYGOERFLIES 4 months ago 3
When you copy and paste your comments, Youtube automatically spams the comment or comments and they automatically don't show up. Just for your information.
EASYGOERFLIES 4 months ago
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Coming to the final furlong... Sunday Silence surges to the front...
loujr92173 4 months ago
Absolutely. Easy Goer was always a top ten all timer in speed-stamina record combo,talent,ability,constitution, with the clear evidence of that coming from his many,many top ten all time performances at all distances,6.5F,7F,8F,9F,10F,12F, but what sent him into the thirties was Pat Day's typically atrocious riding that got him beat a nose and desperation neck in 2 races vs. an also great ss.
DELMARCLUB1 4 months ago 7
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What an awesome race! Sunday Silence in tight quarters approaching the far turn, loses ground. The horse regains his footing makes up lost ground and at the top of the stretch is even with Easy Goer. From there, the horse that wanted it the most, won the race!
loujr92173 4 months ago
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Coming to the final furlong... Sunday Silence surges the front...
loujr92173 4 months ago
Truly miss these great rivalries.
caviar1127 4 months ago 3
Easy Goer was better and I am a native Californian. Facts state clearly. Must all bea delusional.Just like Noor beating Citation 4 of 5. Just like Beau Purple beating Kelso 3 of 4 races. Just like Damascus beating Dr Fager 2 of 4. Just like Big Spruce beating Forego 2 of 3. Just like Mehmet beating John Henry 2 of 3.Just like Formal Gold beating Skip Away 4 of 6. Just like Akureyri beating Pleasant Colony 3 of 4. Just like Star Of Cozzene beating Kotashaan 3 times.Etc.
DELMARCLUB1 4 months ago
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Easy Goer had a full furlong to pass and couldn't. The little California pony fed him his lunch; fed it to him for the Derby and the BC Classic. Only the delusional could ever come to the conclusion that EG was better. The facts state that clearly. Just some more NY little girls who think they can revise history. Deal with it.
sthygersen 4 months ago
And no Hall of Fame champ who runs the fastest three year old mile in history in 1:32:2,shattering Secretariat's record by 5 lengths,and a blink off Dr. Fager's world record set at the age of 4, and runs the second fastest Belmont St. of all time with only Secretariat ever faster,and runs many of the best,most prestigious races right on tr.records, and loses by an inch in MD and by a desprate neck in FL due to admittedly despicably bad Pat Day riding, can be.
EASYGOERFLIES 4 months ago 2
Actually Easy Goer DID win outside NY. And further more, Easy Goer did NOT lose by an inch in MD and by a desperate neck in FL because of what state they were run in. He lost by an inch in MD and by a desperate neck in FL because of Pat Day's self admittedly despicable riding.
EASYGOERFLIES 4 months ago 2
Man, I wish I could have seen this race in person!!!!!!
LoriTopazz 5 months ago 4
Like the BH Top 100 book states, "Easy Goer will always be mentioned in the same breath with the greatest of ALL TIME", and that is in spite of the two awful awful start and stop,start and stop,start and stop rides that cost him by a nostril and desperate neck vs. another great in SS.
EASYGOER4LIFE 5 months ago
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@EASYGOER4LIFE You can't back up your claim that Easy Goer automatically wins those two races if Pat Day rides him differently. You have to run those races with Pat Day ridding him differently to find out. It is by no means a foregone conclusion. You have to run those races.
sl7293 5 months ago
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Sunday Silence kept finding a way to beat Easy Goer just as Affirmed found a way to beat his daddy Alydar. Obviously without SS or EG or Aff or Aly any of the four would have been a TC winner. Same as Bet Twice. In 87 and 89 had alysheba or SS/EG not been there we would have had 2 more TC winners. Not short changing Real Quiet and Victory Gallop either . These are all great horses that if it were not for their rival in the race would be TC winners. I love this sport !!!
Troy2573 5 months ago
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It isn't surprising for the loser of a close race to do Monday morning quarterbacking afterwards. However, it isn't a foregone conclusion that EG wins if Day rides him differently. You have to RUN that race to find out. Consider what many including Day said was his worst mistake - the big premature move in the backstretch. Suppose Day doesn't make that move & SS builds a bigger lead in the final turn as a result. Does EG run SS down in the stretch? You have to RUN that race to find out.
sl7293 5 months ago
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DELMARCLUB1: Could those "much stronger aggressive greats Cordero, Pincay, and Bailey" have been too aggressive? Apparently so because combined they did not win as many Preakness Stakes's as Pat Day did on his own. He also won more triple crown races than any of them and is the only jockey to get a mount in each of the first 20 Breeders Cups.
sl7293 5 months ago
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Those aren't my "final time assumptions on all these horses". They are your assumptions.
sl7293 5 months ago
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There may be no evidence that the horses you listed as winners COULD run faster, but there is also no evidence that they COULD NOT run faster. On the other hand, in EGs case we know with a high degree of certainty that he either ran as fast as he possibly could going down the stretch of the Preakness and simply ran out of gas or that he was not running as fast as he could & simply quit.
sl7293 5 months ago
According to your final time assumptions on all these horses, for three year olds at a mile,Easy Goer is #1 all time, and at a mile and a half, Easy Goer is #2 all time with Secretariat #1? Also, only Tri Jet was ever faster than EG at Saratoga at 9f up til that point,and only General Assembly &Honest Pleasure were ever faster than Easy Goer at 10f at Saratoga,&as a two year old,Easy Goer was among the fastest two year olds of all time also,with Slew and Devil's Bag. Your ass. from final times
flylion132 5 months ago 4
EG and SS ran faster than Slew,Bid,Alydar,Affirmed,Arts and Letters,Majestic Prince,Bet Twice,Alysheba,Free House,Silver Charm,Captain Bodgit,Touch Gold,Native Dancer,Nashua,Damascus,Skip Away,Bold Forbes,Bold Ruler. There is NO evidence that any of these winners or losers could have run faster, none at all.
flylion132 5 months ago 4
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Tanks Prospect, Curlin, L Quartorze, Summer Squall, Gate Dancer, Secretariat, and SS all ran faster than EG. Also unlike EG they actually WON their races. Winning counts for something, doesn't it? There is NO evidence that most of the horses you list you won couldn't have run faster. They ran fast enough to win. Some won easily. Oh yeah, at least a couple of the losers, Street Sense & Chiefs Crown, ran faster than EG. Unlike many of the others we know EG could not run faster. He lost
sl7293 5 months ago
EG and SS ran faster than Affirmed,Alydar,Slew,Bid,Arts and Letters-Majestic Prince, Free House and Silver Charm,Bet Twice and Alysheba,Nashua,Bold Forbes,Skip Away,Bold Ruler,Native Dancer,Damascus,Chief's Crown,Skip Away,Point Given,etc etc, plenty of losers in this comment. Must have all been "out of gas", WIN or LOSE. Extremely slow 19.3 or 19 3/5=Seattle Slew,Bid,Native Dancer,Silver Charm,Free House,Bet Twice,Alysheba,Citation,Nashua,Bold Forbes,Bold Ruler must have all been extremely slow
flylion132 5 months ago 5
LOL! Easy Goer and SS ran FASTER in 1:53.4 than Slew,Bid and Affirmed's Preakness Stakes. They all, including EG,SS,Slew,Affirmed,Bid,must have been "out of gas" at the end, while TP came from far,far,far back off a suicidal pace set by E.Prince and Chief's Crown and LQ. Funny how EG's beyer in the Preakness and all of his races were far superior to what Tank's Prospect or LQ ran in their Preakness Stakes. And so were Slew,Aff,Bid and SS!
flylion132 5 months ago 4
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@flylion132 Slew, Bid, Affirmed ran as fast as they had to in order to win. There is no concrete evidence that they were out of gas or that they could not have run any faster since they ran fast enough to win. EG on the other hand LOST and did so running an extremely slow 19.6 sec over the last 3/16ths. Either EG was out of gas OR he simply quit. I choose to believe the former.
sl7293 5 months ago
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Pat Day is the 2nd winningest jockey in the history of the Preakness. One of his wins was aboard Tanks Propsect who set the Preakness record. Another of his wins occurred aboard Louis Quartorze who tied that record. EG ran the 1st mile of his Preakness in the same 1:34.2 as Tanks Prospect, but unlike TP, EG ran out of gas at the end. He did the final 3/16 much more slowly than TP & as a result lost to SS. TP simply had more gas in his "Tank" at the end than EG.
sl7293 5 months ago
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sl7293 5 months ago
Pat Day's riding was so despicably bad that even the Californian Bill Christine stated the obvious, it surely wasn't just Patsy Day admitting the obvious about his own despicable riding, or all the eastern experts, that is for sure. Pat Day-"totally rider error." Easy Goer,7 or 8 120+or higher beyers(double more than any horse since Bid) in his life,SS ran one his life. The great equalizer=Pat Day's despicably bad riding.
EASYGOERFLIES 6 months ago 3
So you are saying your "pot is as black as the kettle" then! I should be more critical of the repetitive comments on both sides indeed, but I never saw,within a week, 500-900 of the same comments from both sides on the fence,and that includes Easy Goer fans! I will say it again, I have been a bit critical of some of Day's ride indeed, but in every comment of my own, I always state they were two great champions no matter what my critiques,nose to nose,neck to neck.
PhippsStable 6 months ago
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That“s "the pot calling the kettle black”. You've continued to post your own repetitive comments and the same few EG fanatics continue to post the same comments, almost verbatim as they have done thousands of times before, about Pat Day being totally responsible for EGs losses in the BC & Preakness. You never lift a voice in protest. You agree with them. It is only when I present an opposing view that you get up on your sanctimonious high horse & complain about repetition.
sl7293 6 months ago
wow just spectacular
joncal123 6 months ago
How old are you? Had no problem? It certainly is a free country to leave as many repetitive comments on both sides of the fence, so be my guest and do as you please and act like a seven year old,and do what the other side of the fence does. As for myself, I may have been a bit critical of some of Day's rides, but in every comment I have ever left,I have said I stated these were two great horses none the less. Nose to nose,cheek by jowls,no matter how many mistakes Day made.
PhippsStable 6 months ago
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If you think this is totally & absolutely absurd, you are free to ignore it. The # of comments is not about 500. There are over 10,000 on many Youtube sites made by a few, ALL of which essentially say one thing: EG would be ranked an all time great were it not for P Day's incompetence. Clearly you agree & had no problem with all these posts until some began stating the opposing view that no one can PROVE that EG would have fared better if Day wasn't his jockey.
sl7293 6 months ago
This is totally and absolutely absurd. Is over 500 comments of the same repetitive repeats not enough? Do you need another 500 comments?Is all of you saying the same thing over 500 times not enough? And I am talking about BOTH sides of this, Easy Goer and Sunday Silence fans. This is crap by both sides of the fence.Day's many mistakes,agree or not, agree to disagree. Leave it alone.Two greats nose to nose no matter all of the mistakes. Agree to disagree.
PhippsStable 6 months ago
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There is not way you can prove that if Cordero, Pincay or Bailey were on board that EG would have won this race. You don't have a shred of evidence to back this up, the opinion of a few horse racing pundits notwithstanding. All we can say with any certainty is that SS won this race, along with the Derby and B.C. fair and square.
sl7293 6 months ago
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That's a nonsense argument about EG "stopping" & "starting" & the implication the slowing down and speeding up at different points of a race is bad. Horse make tactical bursts of speed in the middle of races, slow down, & then speed up later on in races all the time & still they win. Think Dr Fager didn't take a "breather" after running the 2nd qtr of his WR mile in 20.6 seconds? You think he maintained that speed all they way to the finish? Think again and his WR still stands today.
sl7293 6 months ago
Put much stronger,aggressive greats Cordero,Pincay,Bailey on Easy Goer and Easy Goer never gets beat a nose and desperation neck in 2 races due to being out ridden and schooled with race riding and antics, very poorly timed moves, typically atrocious Pat Day riding. No doubts at all.
DELMARCLUB1 6 months ago 19
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@DELMARCLUB1 - Easy Goer was a homer who never won outside of New York. Three of four times Sunday Silence ate his lunch. Game, set, match.
sthygersen 4 months ago
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@DELMARCLUB1 - That is total and complete crap, Sunday Silence had more heart than Easy Goer, and proved it taking 3 of 4. You can try your revisionist history, but 500 years from now the winner will still be... SUNDAY SILENCE!
sthygersen 3 months ago
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@DELMARCLUB1 Sad that you losers can not admit you got spanked 3 out of 4 times and that Easy Goer was weak and never won outside of NY. Scoreboard...Silence always will be the better horse. Don't blame the jock. We didn't care for our jock either.
SundayGreatest 3 weeks ago
Pat Day's typical typical typically atrocious riding and being schooled and outridden by other jocks did not only cost Easy Goer by a nose and desperation neck in 2 races. Pat Day's typically atrocious riding and being schooled and out ridden cost so many horses eclipse awards and huge races- Java Gold,Easy Goer,Sky Classic,Turkoman,Forty Niner,Menifee,Summer Squall,Timber Country,Heavenly Prize,Seeking the Gold,Paradise Creek,Banshee Breeze,Surfside and so many more
DELMARCLUB1 6 months ago 18
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@DELMARCLUB1 If Pat Day's rides were "typically atrocious" as you claim, he would not be ranked 2nd all time in Preakness wins behind the great Eddie Arcaro. Neither would he be ranked something around 3rd all time in triple crown wins. Neither would he be one of the winningest breeders cup jockeys and the only one to get a mount in each of the first 20 breeders cups.
sl7293 5 months ago
@DELMARCLUB1 It doesn't matter that the great jockey Pat Day said his riding was "complete and outright and entirely and wholly jockey error,which caused the flare of a nostril, and that he was on the better horse and his complete,outright,entire,wholly jockey error cost him", it doesn't entirely matter because in the end, it was two all time great hall of fame champs nose to nose,cheek by jowls the entire length of the stretch,both running one of the fastest Preakness'.
PhippsStable 5 months ago 2
@DELMARCLUB1 I agree. Pat Day's riding was just downright terrible. He made all those mistakes and errors earlier in this race, and Easy Goer still most definitely wins if Day doesn't,with a short lead, throw his head to look back at s.s., like EG is some gymnast with his body straight and his head cocked, then down a slim lead, when Day straightens his head back up, EG re gains the lead. Day calling his riding "wholly jockey error" is correct.
PatWaitAllDay 4 months ago 3
No doubt at all that the start and stop,start and stop,start and stop "I let him down gave him a breather around the far turn" awful kid gloves and baby hand rides cost Easy Goer big time by a nostril and desperate neck. Easy Goer was not a start and stop,start and stop,"I let him down and gave him a breather around the far turn". Easy Goer was big,powerhouse,locomotive,long and powerful strides, not a start and stop,,start and stop,let him down,breathers horse.
EASYGOER4LIFE 6 months ago 2
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Making a big move in the backstretch where EG gained position & forced SS 1 1/2 lengths back of Houston was not a bad move. Neither was taking a breather in the turn where the long striding EG does not operate as efficiently as the more nimble SS. It placed EG less than one length from the lead at the top of the stretch where he is faster than SS. The race boiled down to the fact that Day didn’t have quite enough horse under him to get the job done. It’s easy to Monday morning quarterback.
sl7293 6 months ago
Over 500 comments on this repetitive stuff.When is this never ending repetitive repeats going to end? 500 comments worth of this? How do you people have the time all morning,day and night to repeat 500 comments worth of this crap. Two great horses nose to nose,cheek by jowls to the wire, no matter how many errors and mistakes that Pat Day made, true or not, agree or disagree. Agree to disagree folks. End this never ending 500 comments worth of repetitiveness.
PhippsStable 7 months ago
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Actually, flylion132, you suggested earlier that Pat Day could have given EG a breather in the far turn and still won the race. According to you, all Pat Day has to do is keep EG to the outside and off the rail in the stretch and he wins the race. If EG could have won the race by staying well of the rail, then he could have won the race after having taken a breather in the backstretch. You are contradicting your claim that "you can't do that".
sl7293 7 months ago
Pat Day gave Easy Goer "breathers" around the far turn in both whisker and desperate neck losses. You can't do that, with the advantage and the lead or without the lead. Either/or, both mistakes by Day. P.Val's beliefs? Where do you get that from P.Val's quotes of "I maybe could have moved in between both horses.I have plenty of room in between BOTH horses, but EG moved by me so quickly,I was shocked Day moved him that early."
flylion132 7 months ago
All you have to do is watch the head on video of this and it is on Youtube,right here on Youtube, and the link is right here on this video titled, "SS Preakness 1997- A look back" to see what P.Val did and where he was positioned.
flylion132 7 months ago
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As far as P Day's breather is concerned, flylion132 said P Val was surprised by EG's fast move in the backstretch because it happened so EARLY in the race. Evidently, "the great" Pat V did not believe that EG could sustain that kind of speed all the way to the wire. It seems that, during the race, Pat Day had his own doubts about that & felt he needed to give the EG a breather. Conceivably, EG actually needed a breather & would not have been able to run that hard all the way to the finish.
sl7293 7 months ago
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Not so flylion132. SS was right alongside Houston at the time EG passed, not far to the outside of Houston as you suggest. If Pat V had positioned SS much further to the right of Houston than he was at the time EG passed, no way P Val is squeezed between #7 & EG, steadies him, & drops 1 1/2 lengths back. After all, the DRF definition of "steadied" implies SS was in "tight quarters".
sl7293 7 months ago
I agree with him, it did overwhelm Pat Day. You put Angel Cordero,Laffit Pincay,Jerry Bailey on board Easy Goer and Easy Goer NEVER gets beat a nose and desperation neck in 2 races due to being owned,schooled and outridden and typically atrocious Pat Day rides.
DELMARCLUB1 7 months ago
Pat Day's typically atrocious riding and being owned and schooled and outridden was not only witnessed and stated by the obvious experts on Easy Goer in 2 races by a nose and desperation neck. No way. His typically atrocious riding cost so many other horses- Java Gold in 87,Easy Goer,Sky Classic in 92,Turkoman in 86,Forty Niner in 88,Menifee in 99,Heavenly Prize in 94&95,Paradise Creek,Seeking the Gold,Banshee Breeze,Surfside and so many more.
DELMARCLUB1 7 months ago
And not only did this exchange get me to correct you on all your completely inaccurate and false terminology, but it got me to even agree more with Bill Christine of the LA Times the more I watched it, "P.Val's aggessiveness OVERWHELMED Day's usual patience", and how Pat Day made 3 big mistakes to cost him,while P.Val made 2 correct moves to help him win.
flylion132 7 months ago
No, this exchange was ALL ABOUT you using wrong terminology such as "decelerated rapidly and sharply", and "major blunder and boneheaded and idiotic" that needed to be corrected. As for the breather, read "Greatest Rivalries" book, and if you don't believe Pat Day's own words on his own mistakes, all you have to do is watch EG just coast right next to Houston the entire turn when he easily could have inhaled him, but Day gave him a breather &that led to Day's multiple stretch mistakes also
flylion132 7 months ago
Further to the outside? You obviously can't see or don't know anything. P.Val DID POSITION his horse very wide and did that to carry out EG in the process,and the ONLY reason Day made that monster premature move was because he was worried about being taken even wider around the turn by P.Val AGAIN. Watch the head on, the video is on YT. Listen to Pat Day &P.Val talk, read the "Greatest Rivalries" book,read the quotes from both. Jeez,learn something.
flylion132 7 months ago
P.Val DID POSITION him way outside, he CARRIED EG to the middle of the track with his race riding games and antics. All you have to do is watch the head on on the video "SS Preakness segment 1997" A look back to see that. Wrong again,when P.Val saw EG coming early in the backside he floated and carried him OUT to the middle of the track. Once again, wrong again. Keep trying Grampa.
flylion132 7 months ago
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The other thing this exchange demonstrated is that placing all of the blame for EGs loss on P Day is biased & illogical. Both Pat V & Pat Day executed poorly at some times & well at others. Even your claim that Pat Day blundered when giving EG a "breather" is something you cannot PROVE. Maybe EGs quick move on the backstretch in which he squeezed EG between himself & two horses, which surprised Pat V, was strong enough & occurred early enough that he needed a breather.
sl7293 7 months ago
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Actually in the course of this exchange, I got you to admit that Pat Day did execute a well timed move getting SS in tight quarters beween EG & Houston. This caused Pat V to have to steady SS & fall 1 1/2 lengths back of Houston while EG was speeding on by Houston. You also acknowledge by going wide, Pat V could have avoided this. Indeed, Pat V could have gone wide at the time he passed #3 which would have ensured he would not be squeezed between Houston and EG when EG passed him.
sl7293 7 months ago
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At the time SS passes the #3 horse, long before he comes alongside Houston, he could have positioned his horse further to the outside. If he had done that, EG still would have been able to pass SS. Maybe he even would have passed SS to his inside. However, he would not have been able to squeeze SS, fairly and cleanly, between Houston and himself, requiring Pat V to steady his horse and fall 1 1/2 lengths behind Houston. SS would have been too far to the outside of Houston for that.
sl7293 7 months ago
I'd love to keep explaining and answering and repeating for you all these things hundreds of times, but unfortunately I've got to go to work.
flylion132 7 months ago
P.Val place him? P.Val was into between two horses with room to move in between both horses but wasn't fast enough&got passed fairly,w/o cutting him off. Day had the lead,then he says"I have him a breather and let him down".&yes P.Day should not have done the "I gave him a breather around the far turn" &got outmaneuvered for the stretch,getting pinned on the rail &turned for home a few paths off the rail.Now.PVal("our boots were bangin") smartly didn't cut off him but kept banging him into rail
flylion132 7 months ago
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Pat Val shouldn't have placed SS in a position where EG could pass him fairly and cleanly and squeeze him between Houston and himself just like Pat Day shouldn't have placed EG in position where SS could squeeze him, fairly and cleanly close to the rail in the stretch. Of course Pat Day could have steadied EG in the stretch, dropped 1 1/2 lengths back of SS & then charge past SS on the outside. The again, it seems EG just was not fast enough on this day.
sl7293 7 months ago
YOU are FORGETTING that the outside horse that passes you fairly and cleanly takes YOUR position fairly and cleanly, and there already is a horse inside of you in his established fair position, you then lose your position because the horse outside of you passed you fairly and there already is a horse with established position inside of you. But P.Val said he had room and could move in between BUT EG went by him too fast and quick.The only option is to go wide or hope Day goes wide.
flylion132 7 months ago
Hilarious. P.Val quote, " I HAD ROOM in between the two horses if I wanted to move in between them, but Easy Goer moved by me too quickly." Simple, one horse passes him cleanly and fairly, and Houston already has his position and was running very fast himself at that point. The difference? When a horse passes on the outside of you fairly w/o cutting you off, and there is already a horse inside of you, you lose your position due to the outside horse passing you. Not a bonehead,major blunder
flylion132 7 months ago
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Easy Goer was not fast enough to prevent SS from squeezing in on him along the rail in the stretch. SS ran cleanly & EG had a clear path to the wire throughout. However, if quarters were too tight for EG on the rail, Pat Day could always have done to SS what Pat V had done to EG earlier when sandwiched in between Houston & EG. He could have steadied EG, causing him to fall 1 1/2 lengths behind SS, & then charged past SS on the outside to victory. Then again, maybe EG just was not fast enough.
sl7293 7 months ago
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sl7293 7 months ago
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The DRF definition of "steadied" suggests that SS did not have room to run, by definition, at the time he was steadied. Getting into that position was a mistake even though he could NOT have prevented EG from passing him.
sl7293 7 months ago
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Horses do not routinely get steadied and fall back 1 1/2 lengths every time another horse passes them. Typically when one horse gets passed by another horse, the horse that gets passed does NOT have to be steadied or lose momentum as a result the way SS did here. The fact that Pat V got SS into a position where he had to steady him and fall 1 1/2 lengths behind Houston, when EG passed him, was a mistake.
sl7293 7 months ago
And that is why Easy Goer,a Hall of Famerwho combined blazingrecord speed(1:32)at a mile and at shorter distances(near tr.record at 6.5f,fastest 7f of yr in Florida,among the top 5 all time fastest Champagnes at 8f),with a supreme&brilliant stamina to run the second fastest Belmont of all time,near tr.records in Whitney at 9f,Travers&Suburban at 10f.It was the awful start&stop,start&stop,"I gave him a breather around the far turn",kid gloves rides that cost him a nostril&desp.neck in two outs
EASYGOER4LIFE 7 months ago
That is NOT being out "foxed" or out ridden at all. When you HAVE ROOM in between BOTH horses and your horse gets passed by a faster horse cleanly,fairly and without being cut off at all. That is not a "boneheaded, major blunder, or idiotic" bad ride, and it is also the farthest thing from "rapid and sharp deceleration". P.Day got outridden with race riding antics, 3 mistakes by Day and 2 correct race riding and outmaneuvering traps by P.Val. I agree with Bill Christine.
flylion132 7 months ago
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Pat Val got outfoxed by Day in a move that was well-timed moved. He could not have prevented EG from passing SS, but could have avoided placing SS in a position where P Val pulls up alongside SS and was suddenly forced to steady SS, and as a result drops 1 1/2 lengths behind Houston. That cost SS valuable momentum.
sl7293 7 months ago
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I love you Sunday Silence...
Respect from Turkey..!
Bilgekurt1 7 months ago
Timing his move? Well unfortunately his horse wasn't fast enough at this point of the race and got passed fairly and w/o being cut off. EG got position on him because he was faster at this point of the race, nothing P.Val could do, he said he had room. That is still very,very far from being a "boneheaded,major blunder,idiotic bad ride" and also from "decelerating rapidly or sharply". Day also could have done alot of things differently in regards to getting trapped,banged and cocking his head
flylion132 7 months ago
It seems to me Pat V might have been able to prevent being caught between Houston on his left and EG by timing his move on Houston differently or by positioning himself wider on the track. Those are a couple of things that might have made it more difficult for EG to get position on him requiring him to be steadied and to suddenly fall 1 1/2 lengths behind Houston losing momentum.
sl7293 7 months ago
That is fine with me.Day made mistakes at subsequent points in here,I can agree with that.I mean the premature move wasn't necessarily bad,it just took a little more out of him in deep stretch,but that was ok.It was more not finishing the move.That is why the experts&many people call Day's riding on EG "start then stop,start then stop, start and stop" and that was because Day said "I let him down and gave him a breather around the far turn",and not only in this race.EG was NOT a start&stop horse
flylion132 7 months ago
And also trap or being trapped refers to a horse being trapped between the rail and another horse close in tight, like Easy Goer in this race. SS was not trapped, he had to go around and that was because at that point he got passed cleanly,fairly and w.o being cut off. It is not trapped when you have to go around because you lost your position being passed by a horse.
flylion132 7 months ago
I wouldn't say that this well timed move was necessarily premature. If Day made mistakes at subsequent points in the race, it does not necessarily mean that this move was bad or premature. All it means is Day made mistakes at subsequent points of the race.
sl7293 7 months ago
Day has made a well timed premature move? Ok fine, then Day says after making that great move " I let him down and gave him a breather" and this quote is in the "Greatest Rivalries" book. And no that is NOT a trap at all. It is simply a faster horse passing another horse and taking his position, and P.Val said he had room in between horses,but EG was just too fast at this point,passed him w/o cutting him off and cleanly and fairly. The only thing P.Val could have done was go wide or hope Day did
flylion132 7 months ago
@flylion132 Absolutely agree. Pat Day NEVER realized the total obvious that Easy Goer was absolutely not a start and stop,start and stop,start and stop, "I gave him a breather around the far turn" in both races horse. Easy Goer was big,extremely powerful horse, not a start and stop,start and stop "I gave him a breather around the far turn" awful kid gloves and baby hands rides. And then you add that he was completely outridden by Valenzuela.
EASYGOER4LIFE 7 months ago
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It seems that for Day to cause Pat Val to suddenly drop 1 1/2 lengths in back of Houston, who EG has just passed, he has made a well timed move. I believe this is what Paulick called a trap. If he passes Houston before SS pulls along side Houston or if he passes when SS is too far up on Houston or past him, EG enters the turn with a smaller lead than what he had. Without this, SS who is faster in the turn, might have a bigger lead going into the stretch.
sl7293 7 months ago
Just a question for you? How long do you want to debate something that you have been given the answers to hundreds of times? I mean, do you intend to debate this at infinitum, that has been answered by direct quotes from P.Val &P.Day,DRF charts,head on and pan video,and common sense answers as to why it was not "boneheaded,idiotic or a major blunder" and "decelerating rapidly and sharply" as you have said. I am assuming the answer is at infinitum.
flylion132 7 months ago
All your questions are answered once again, so I will repeat it as many times as you need it. Easy Goer gained his position while passing him fairly,cleanly and w/o cutting him off , and Houston already had his own position established. So SS lost his position fairly &cleanly.The only answer at that point, when a horse loses his pos., is to either go around the two horses he lost it to or HOPE that P.Day idioticly would stay out way wide for him.The answer is common sense,common sense answer.
flylion132 7 months ago
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At this point where SS lost position, cleanly and fairly to EG, does SS still have a clear path to run past Houston, or does the fact that EG has gained position mean that SS does not have a clear path in front of him? If the latter is true, does the fact that P Val no longer has a clear path in front of him causes him to "steady" SS with the result that he falls 1 1/2 lengths or so behind Houston?
sl7293 7 months ago
The answer is simple and has been stated a hundred times here for you. When you get passed cleanly,fairly and without being cut off, YOU LOSE YOUR POSITION fairly,cleanly and without being cut off. The only answer for P.Val would have been to go 3 or 4 wide which makes no sense b/c he said "HE HAD ROOM" in between both horses.The other answer would be to hope P.Day goes 4 or 5 wide into and around the far turn, but P.Val had already taken him out to the middle of the track,and lost his position
flylion132 7 months ago
Look and read real closely at my comments and you will find the answer to that and the answers. Read real closely, concentrate now. All the answers are there for you, not just from my comments, but the direct quotes from P.Val,P.Day and the head on and pan shots as to why!The answers are there. Repeat, repeat, the answers are there
flylion132 7 months ago
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EG was a faster horse at this point in the race and ran past SS. We both agree on that. This does not explain why SS, who you say had plenty of room, didn't continue to move past Houston and instead dropped 1 1/2 lengths back.
sl7293 7 months ago
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sl7293 7 months ago
The quotes from P.Val and P.Day and head on and pan video state the answer to that never ending question. SS HAD ROOM in between Easy Goer and Houston, but simply got passed by a faster horse, who did not cut him off, passed him fairly and cleanly and took his position. Farthest thing from your claims of a "boneheaded,major blunder,idiotic bad ride" and "rapid and sharp deceleration". Your answers are in all the direct quotes
flylion132 7 months ago
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You still haven't answered the question: Why does SS, who was making a move on Houston, pull alongside him and then quickly drop 1 1/2 lengths in back of Houston at the same time the EG as pulling ahead of Houston?
sl7293 7 months ago
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The question wasn't whether or not whether SS was fast enough to keep EG from passing him at this point. Let's agree that he could not keep EG from passing. The question is why does SS, who was making a fast move on Houston, pull along side Houston and suddenly Pat V steadies his horse and fall 1 1/2 lengths back? At the same time that SS falls 1 1/2 lengths behind Houston EG extends his lead on Houston.
sl7293 7 months ago
He saw him clearly, but he figured his race riding antic of taking him out to the center of the track wouldn't cause Day to make that monster premature move. And P.Val clearly states I had ROOM IN BETWEEN EG and HOU if I wanted to." His horse wasn't faster on the straight at this point in the race. Certainly still wasn't a "boneheaded,major bluner,idiotic bad ride" and "decelerating rapidly and sharply." That is the whole point of your 24/7a thon
flylion132 7 months ago
IT EXPLAINS it CLEARLY.His horse had room, he even states it,in between but was NOT fast enough at that point in the race to avoid being passed. The guy says it himself."I could have gone and SAT IN BETWEEN EG and HOU, but EG moved up so fast and got the advantage,I knew EG was going to make a monster, but not that early. Same article and in "Greatest Rivalries" book, Day says, "after being taken wide by P.Val &concerned about being floated wider on the turn,he made that move,then a breather."
flylion132 7 months ago
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The point is the quote is ambiguous. He says he could have followed EG, but did not, apparently because he was surprised. Does this mean that he was caught by surprise as Paulick claims and therefore did not position his horse so that he could follow EG and instead was caught in tight quarters? Does it mean that because he was surprised he got caught in tight quarters where he had to steady his horse which made him fall 1 1/2 lengths behind Houston?
sl7293 7 months ago
This nonsense of P.Val not seeing him is just that: totally false. When you take a horse very wide out into to the middle of the track earlier on down the backside and you call it race riding, you see him clear as a sunshiney day.He is right next to him.That is completely false. Don't say he didn't see him or even saw him too late, those are not true. Maybe he didn't expect Day to make that monster premature move that early, but ohhhh he saw him clearly.
flylion132 7 months ago
These are quotes in Ed Bowen's article in the May, 27, 1989 article in the Bloodhorse magazine. Who cares if he doesn't state that, these are direct quotes! Secondly, do you really care that Bill Christine,Bill Nack,Steve Crist,Paul Moran DID say Pat Day's multiple mistakes did cost the horse. I am sure you don't.This whole 24/7 a thon is about what happened,and huge errors in calling the riding "boneheaded,a major blunder,idiotic bad ride" and using wrong words "decelerated sharply and rapidly"
flylion132 7 months ago
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I haven't read this Bowen article, but I have read his chapter on the 89 Preakness in his book "At the Wire". In that, he does not express the view that the outcome of this race was determined by Pat Day mistakes.
sl7293 7 months ago
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The Pat V quote is ambiguous. It suggests that if he hadn't been "surprised", he would have gone with EG. Because of its ambiguity, it does not explain why SS, who was also making a strong move of his own alongside Houston, all of sudden steadies his horse just as he pulls alongside and quickly falls 1 1/2 lengths behind Houston just as EG passes him. Perhaps the fact that Pat V was surprised plus was in tight quarters (which is implied by the DRF definition of "steadied") explains this.
sl7293 7 months ago
Here are some direct quotes from the Bloodhorse article by Ed Bowen dated May 27,1989 on the 1989 Preakness. Direct quotes. P.Val says, " I probably could have gone with EG and SAT IN BETWEEN him and Houston, I had room. BUT, Easy Goer moved up on the outside of me SO FAST and passed me. I did NOT think Day would make that kind of monster moveTHAT EARLY in the race." He says he had room,but got passed by a faster horse at that point.
flylion132 7 months ago
That is mostly correct to me ,except for a few things you said. This steadied was far,far from "decelerating rapidly or sharply, or checking abruptly or sharply" or checking at all for that matter.Also, it is not error,boneheaded,a major blunder or an idiotic bad ride when there is nothing a jockey can do about a faster horse passing him without cutting him off and taking his position fairly and correctly.There was nothing the jock could do with this and I will give you some quotes.
flylion132 7 months ago
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The "tight quarters" were formed by Houston on SS's left & EG who in a perfectly timed move passed SS on the right and was angling to the left. SS was in tight quarters in between Houston and SS. With no where to go, Pat V "steadied" SS causing him to fall back from a position alongside Houston to one 1 1/2 lengths back. SS lost momentum & valuable ground to both Houston and EG in the process. Pat V erred in letting himself get caught in between Houston & EG. Paulick says he was trapped.
sl7293 7 months ago
That is fine with me, but this is extremely far from "decelerating rapidly or sharply,or checked abruptly or sharply" or checked at all for that matter.& Easy Goer simply passed him w/o cutting him off at all and took his position. This was not a "boneheaded,a major blunder or idiotic bad ride" by a jock as you say.The jock couldn't do anything when a faster horse passes him w/o cutting him off. That is the point
flylion132 7 months ago
The DRF definition of steadied speaks of a horse being taken in hand because they are in tight quarters. Clearly the quarters were too tight for SS to continue his charge past Houston in pursuit of EG. Instead, he had to be steadied. In little more than one second as the video shows, being steadied lost him a position right alongside Houston to a position 1 ½ lengths back. The fact that he lost this ground & valuable momentum in the process is clear from the video.
sl7293 7 months ago
That is fine with me.&that was the case, in the definition, b/c a horse who was faster at that point in the race passed him without cutting him off or making "him decelerate rapidly or sharply, or check abruptly or sharply or check at all" actually and took his position. There is nothing a jock can do when a horse passes you fairly w/o cutting you off and takes your position,it was not a "boneheaded,major blunder or idiotic."
flylion132 7 months ago
That's fine, having said that in your definitions, this is very very far from "decelerating rapidly or sharply, or checked sharply or abruptly or checked at all" for that matter.There is a huge difference between your take and the what happened. &EG simply passed him without cutting him off at all and took his position, this was not a"bonehead" ,"major blunder" or "idiotic bad ride" by a jock.The jock couldn't do anything when a faster horse passes him &takes his position w/o cutting him of
flylion132 7 months ago
That's fine, having said that in your definitions, this is very very far from "decelerating rapidly or sharply, or checked sharply or abruptly or checked at all" for that matter. There is a huge difference between your take and the what happened. And EG simply passed him without cutting him off at all and took his position, this was not a"bonehead" ,"major blunder" or "idiotic bad ride" by a jock.The jock couldn't do anything when a faster horse passes him &takes his position w/o cutting him off
flylion132 7 months ago
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The DRF definition of steadied speaks of a horse being steadied because they are in tight quarters. Clearly the quarters were too tight for SS to continue his charge past Houston in pursuit of EG. Instead, he had to be steadied and as we see from the video, that caused him to lose ground in little more than a second from a position right alongside Houston to a position 1 ½ lengths behind.
sl7293 7 months ago
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The DRF definition of steadied speaks of a horse being taken in hand because they are in tight quarters. Those tight quarters were TOO TIGHT for SS to continue his charge past Houston in pursuit of EG. Being "steadied" caused him to lose ground from a position along side Houston to a postition 1 1/2 lengths behind in little more than a secon. He lost momentum in the process.
sl7293 7 months ago