I would say i want a relationship like yours and hayley's, and it's not because i think it's perfect, it's funny how sometimes (from what I've seen) you guys bicker, and you have little back and forths that make you like normal humans, and when i see videos with you together, you seem like good friends, while you're also dating, and it's cute and nice. I wouldn't actually want a perfectly happy marriage with NO fights, because then it wouldn't be fun and i would be looking forever.
Everything you said was/is very intelligent and well thought out and on Part One I sent one of my most thought out comments to date. Yet as soon as you said "He has every right to not like music or cake..." all I could think was "Who doesn't like cake?!" Ah well, I guess some people prefer pie.
I think that I get your point but you can't actually control your emotions, I was nervous when I met you (If you count that brief conversation a meeting hehe), but I'm also terrified the first day of school of people I already know~ So I guess its hard to know, its weird what you feel and its hard to control who or what we are. ^.^
I really can't say anything with any certainty but it seems to me that if you decide ('you' being a general term) to become "visible" then you have to realize the influence that you have. And that doesn't mean you should be inhibited but it's something you have to take into account. If there's something you're going to say to someone that they may or may not like/agree with you have to be prepared for the consequences of that, and it's just on a much greater scale when you are "visible."
one thing you said was something like "why are people who are more visible held to a higher standard?" and i think something important to remember is that when you're putting yourself out there for people, you're gonna end up being a role model. it's kindof unavoidable. so i think there is a higher standard and that it really makes sense for there to be, because while you're allowed to be human and be you, you have to know that whatever you do is gonna have a big influence on some people
for me, i feel like the jumpcut is a more accurate way of representing myself to other people than a one-take video. i'm too lazy to memorize the content of a video and work out pauses and timing, it's much easier to do it in post. but you know me, mike, you've talked to me in person... i talk pretty fast. probably overwhelmingly so. i dunno, maybe it's just my own perception of myself.
Those things get equated because chances are you know the same amount of stuff about that kid in class as you do that kid on YouTube. You might have a few things in common, even one thing. You hear them say funny things. You enjoy those aspects of them. The moment the person, whether someone in real life or in a box on the Internet, does something contrary to who you thought they were, its time to criticize. Its the same response because the amount of information known about each person is equal
I feel nervous meeting just about anyone, but I guess that's mostly down to what kind of person I am. Unless you're planning on coming over to the UK any time soon, not sure I'm going to have to worry about that for a while :-(
and about relationships, bad comparision, but its kind of like watching your favourite TV drama.
for ex. kristina and luke. One day, i just realized. i have no idea if theyre still dating or not.
And they haven't adressed the question at all, and i got scared because seeing my favourite internet couple (similar to a tv show couple) break up is terrible.
But then luke said on his live chat that its because him and her want privacy, and they wont say, which i understand now. But yeah.
On a more selfish note, I think I want them to work out well, simply because their relationship gives me hope. Hope that two nerdy,shy, and akward (which they both have said about themselves) people can find someone who cares and loves them for them. I would be devestated if something happened between them, because it shatters this perfect illusion and happy world you create around them. And reminds you yet again, that the real world can suck. I hope that all made sense!
I figured I would coment on the realtionship part. Not the relationship between viewers and youtubers, but of you and Haley type things. I for one feel invested in other people's relationship, on ahope type of level. Like Lauren from 5ag and her fiance Matt. I've only met either of them twice, and am not close by any means to them. Yet I have this urge for their relationship to work out wonderfuly. Mostly because I think they are both amazing people and deserve a wonderful happy life. (cont)
With the "loving" you, like a crush or having that nervousness is possibly from you being like their crush or maybe because you show us what you want to show us and never as you said the fights or any thing super-duper personal, and if you did it'll be like watching a reality show, or they see you as the Ideal man, like you stated pretty much nobody has a perfect relationship.
That doesn't really explain WHERE the infatuation comes from. Personally, I think I'm just willing to like people, &if the 'exaggerated' version of someone is funny or smart or musically talented, etc, I will start 'fangirling' them.
And about the opinions thing: I think part of putting yourself out there is that you have to either be ready to censor some opinions for your audience, or ready to TAKE their attack on it. In that case, it's the audience that has to learn to imagine you complexly.
Hm. Well, regarding why people might be nervous to meet 'famous' youtubers, I think a big part of it is that we feel that we 'know' you, and we've already formed (probably positive) opinions about you. Meeting you is suddenly bringing up the other side: now it's your turn to form opinions about US. So if I 'love' what I see of a youtuber, I'm going to be very nervous to meet them, because I'm obviously going to want them to 'love' me back as much as they can. (cont.)
On the subject of relationships, I felt much the same way when Dan Brown and Danielle broke up, and the pogotribe exploded. Same thing happened with Dan and the Michael Aranda situation. It just ridiculous, and I just stayed out of the mess.
I think that, while it's ridiculous and stupid for people to get all in a tizzy about a "visible" person not agreeing with their own personal opinion, the visible knows the risks bout expressing such an opinion. At that point, it comes down to whether the subject would rather be dishonest and have a large and ignorant fan base, or whether they'd be completely honest and have a smaller and closer-knit fan base. Clearly, it would be ideal for people to understand that not everyone is the same...
On streamlining: I have this discussion a lot with regards to film. I work at a film festival so cinematic arts play a huge role in my life - something which I think has had both positive and, for lack of a better word, intriguing effects of my perception of the world. I have this theory that the hyperactivity and restlessness of youth is due in part to the fact that not only do films have fast-paced editing, but often characters forgo basic human behaviors such as closing doors or hanging up
I think that some people who are visible and are role models to children are held to a higher standard, which makes sense. No one wants their child looking up to some drug addict. But overall I don't think that just because some is in the public eye that means they should never have a negative opinion. I'd rather people be honest and say a negative opinion then pretend that they like everything because then they seem fake. I think opinions are great because they foster discussion.
I love hearing unpopular opinions! I think people get all fired up because of this idea that they wish to see themselves in the people that they enjoy watching. More than just wanting to have a one-sided friendship, I think because the image presented to viewers is idealized-and-edited, people try to fill in the blanks....with more idealizations. So when a vlogger comes out with an opinion that doesn't fit, those who imagined the person a differently freak out...
I think that every person should be able to voice there opinions. Now this does not mean by any standard that they should do this publicly at all times. But as people get to be more visible they do need to be more careful with how they portray their opinions.
What I really don't understand though is why other people try to get involved in relationships that they are not a part of. What happened to having a personal life? Why do people feel like they need to know whats going on with everyone?
hhh..people are annoying. Do people expect youtubers and popular figures to not have opinions? I LIKE when youtubers and artists have an opinion on something, it creates discussion. Without ANY discussions going on whatsoever, youtube in particular would become a very very shallow place pretty quickly.
Also, I don't understand why people feel the need to have a vested interest in youtubers' relationships. I mean, I understand saying, "Aww, they're cute" and whatenot...but there's a line.
In regard to changing how you present yourself to the world, my favorite comedian, Colin Mochrie, is an interesting example of this. As “that bald guy” on Whose Line, he’s quite hilarious and does funny dances or acts strange as part of his job. In real life, fans will go up to him and expect him to be just as crazy. However, Colin is a very shy, quiet person and, while very polite, isn’t crazy. Also, viewers are seemingly forbidden from disagreeing with famous people, even just in comments.
Not to be shallow but you look different sans hat. In a good way. Wear hats less.
"We live in houses and eat candy and stuff." I love (there's the word again, sorry) that this is your definition of normality and a basis for being able to come up to you and talk.
On the topic of relationships I'm glad you said that. I recently had a discussion with my ex boyfriend and he said that in a relationship there shouldn't ever be arguments. I told him that it was impossible and he still disagrees. On the topic of opinions I know what you mean people freaked out when there was that rumor Miley Cyrus didn't like Rebecca Black. Why should we care? I think we should all be able to express our opinions freely without getting crap for it, no matter who we are.
Not going to be one of my long comments, but I just want to say that I think that more visible people have a RESPONSIBILITY to show everyone that you CAN have different opinions and you CAN dislike something because it shows people that conforming on opinions or ideals when internally you don't want to IS A BAD THING.
YouTubers and celebrities can have negitive opinions?! Say whaaaaaaat??
Haha I'm totally kidding, that's obviously true, but I never thought about that in the way you said it. Especially in terms of a large fan base, I totally understand why people would get so upset over things they disagree with. People want to be just like their idols; or rather, they want their idols to be just like them. So when they are different, there can be some backlashing.
Just on the subject of love, before I continue watching the video:
I wonder if the fact that our use of the word "love" could somehow be related to the fact that, at least in French, "like" and "love" are the same word ("aimer"). "Je t'aime" is I love you, but you could say "j'aime la plage" ("I like the beach"). There's also "adorer" (which means just what you think: "adore"), but it's not the same. Perhaps that could somehow be tied into our "overuse" of "love."
And also, with regards to the crap people with a following get for unpopular opinions: the reason we connect with youtubers is because you guys are real people, just like us. I think when a youtuber gives an opinion that isn't shared by some of the community, it's tough because it shatters some of the "he's just like me!" mindset. We look up to youtubers for being real, everyday people, and I think we get scared, sometimes even angry, when these differences of opinion pop up.
As much as I like to think that falling in "love" with someone in your class or wanting to date them is different from the way someone "loves" a youtuber--I can't help but feel like it's fundamentally the same concept. In both instances, you're seeing one side of somebody. In the case of someone in your class, you see how they act in school, but you really know nothing about them. Maybe we forget to "imagine people complexly" and instead get infatuated with the side we see ourselves.
I think we (or at least I) sometimes forget that youtubers are just people who have videocameras. We turn the person into a sort of character and once we have an image of our head of this character, we feel unsettled when that person does something that doesn't match with the assumptions we've made about him. Videos like these, with no jumpcuts or editing, remind me that youtubers are just people like I am. Which is good.
Yhe way I see it, most of the internet does recognize that everyone gets their own opinion. But when they disagree with you, many people don't know how to start an argument or state their counter-opinion appropriately. Instead of saying, "I disagree and this is why," they will say "What are you thinking? You're obviously wrong because I disagree." Which is too bad.
Sorry for writing so many freaking comments, but I just wanted to make it clear that I DO think it is wrong for people not to let more visible persons not have negative opinions. I was referring more to negative acts.
Oh, and I'm not sure if my first comment posted, so...... whoopsies!
Thanks for leading this discussions, I think it's quite interesting hearing people bring up different points. My mind processes keep going on tangents ;)
I think viewers hold big YouTubers up as this perfect example that always does what they like, admire, or agree with. Because they're "famous" and flawless, right? And when that YouTuber fails at the person's perception of them, the viewer gets mad.
*continuation of earlier comment* Plus, we feel that since more visible people reach more people, we have to quickly correct their mistakes. ex.: if you waste paper we feel like we have to tell everyone else that what you did was wrong, since obviously everyone else is a mindless robot. *cough* No matter if famous people like it or not, they are role models. And if those role models do something wrong, we seem to use it as a learning lesson for everyone else. It's not fair but it's true.
It's like when people get mad at Alex Day for saying he's an atheist. These are people who ask him what his religious beliefs are or if he believes in a higher power, and when they hear that he doesn't believe in God they get very upset. It's ok for their friends to be atheist, but as soon as someone "visible" is it's this massive problem. Everyone, no matter how in the public eye they are, should be allowed to express their own opinions respectfully.
To me the ability to express a personal opinion is what's great about youtube/blogging/internet in general as opposed to traditional media. I mean, isn't this why we came here in the first place, anyway?
My friend was looking for a roommate for next year on Facebook and eliminated people who had different music tastes. I feel like that's not a good criteria for whether or not you can share a living space with someone. I'm more concerned with whether they are hygienic or not, which is why it's hard to judge someone on Facebook 'likes' - like how you can't judge someone based on their edited YouTube videos. You're right, it's really hard to accurately get to know anyone online.
I think that what you were saying about people who are visible getting shit for speaking their opinions goes back to what you were saying about youtube communities a while ago. A lot of times people forget that just because they're part of the same community as someone doesn't mean they like ALL the same things. I'm very far from being the same as everyone in any "community" I identify with, but for a lot of people who are more invested than I am, maybe that's a hard thing to reconcile.
This double standard was never part of my live but it's all over the internet and that's strange. And it hasn't got less strange in the last 11 years. :)
And I hate assupmtions about other people's relationships or the need to comment on them or be involved.
I think the internet has become this really great, uniting vehicle. And with that uniting thing comes this expectation that if we're united on this thing, then we ought to be united on everything--you get it all the time on the Nerdfighter boards where one person points out that "everyone else" is a bunch of liberals, or fans of Charlie, or anything like that. The unity that the internet creates tends to make people forget that the people united are still individuals.
I used to be the kind of person who was offended if someone didn't like the music I liked. I think that there are a LOT of people out there like that. They don't understand that people are allowed to dislike something you like and like something you dislike. And those people are definitely visibly multiplied when you have a large following. (that's not to say that it's okay for people to say, "HOW DARE YOU," because that's just childish to give such a negative backlash to someone's opinion)
I honestly don't understand why there is a double standard. I never have. There are things you, for example, have said that I completely disagree with but I get that you're allowed to have your own opinion on things and I don't stop watching your videos or listening to your music just because I disagree with a few things you say. I don't understand why people don't get that no one is going to agree with their opinions on every subject. People are different and have different views and that's ok.
Firstly, I think that the people who form a friendship-like attachment to youtubers do so because they have something in common with them. Similarities and differences are a big part of how we define our world and ourselves, so when you see a video of someone who has some similarity to yourself, you can't help but associate yourself with them as if they were really a friend or someone you know. You assume they are the same as you, and the connection is forged.
Secondly, when one does this with someone they don't really know, they start reversing the situation and project their thoughts and views onto this person, assuming (subconsciously) 'if this person is akin to me they must feel the same'. This is why some get enraged over an opinion they asked for. They assume this person would have the same view as them and feel betrayed in a sense because it isn't so. Also, opinions have more weight when more people hear them (shouldn't be, but it's true).
Thirdly, as for 'perfect' relationships, not realizing that the whole picture is not there and that it is really not of anyone's business except for those involved... I don't understand that. Anyways, that was long but there's my shpiel. ^_^
. I think they're held up to higher standards, because people get a false representation of someone, when you see that and Its harder to accept that someone isn't how you thought they were. which makes the judgement harsher.
Again, here's another thing of which I'm guilty. I've totally jumped on the "why did they break up?! That person sucks!" thing, but it was a couple years ago, and it's something I certainly have not done since. We're in this pool of personalities, and when you watch someone, read their blog, listen to their music, you become attached to them. You think they are sharing with you things that they would only share with their friends, and it takes a while of being an "Internet person" to realize
@emmfan09 they're only putting online fragmented bits of themselves. I think it's also a product of the average age of the audience to whom YouTubers are broadcasting themselves out. It's 13- to 17-year-olds. When I was 13, I of COURSE thought that I knew everything there was to know about a celebrity if I read every single fan sit and interview about them. Through maturation, I learned that it's simply not the case. It's an interesting dilemma, but I don't think it's fixable.
I'm pretty sure I hugged you the first time I met you. And then I was like "Hey I'm PenguinHatGirl, do you remember me?" and you did and that was kinda exciting. Now if I ever meet you again I won't have to be nervous (except I totally will be 'cause I'm just that kind of person)
I honestly had never really considered what your relationship or John Green's marriage was like lol I guess it's probably pretty good?
I think I'll elaborate on the love topic in this comment because I didn't really on the last video, to me when I say I love a YouTuber I'm saying I love their music or I love the content they produce. I guess you could say I like them to the point that they seem like cool people and I'd like to get to know them but obviously nobody can go further than that because they don't know you. Love as you said has a variety of meanings, you really need to get the context behind what the person is saying.
That's a double standard not many people think about! Especially because viewers are not consciously affected by it. It's not hard to see how people would think that a well known couple has a perfect relationship when all they see are the public good parts of it, especially younger people who are at an extremely impressionable age. I also find it very interesting how youtube has created different types of people society has never seen before (different types of vloggers, for instance)
I agree with you. And I try very hard not get too involved in the actual lives of people I watch. I don't know, I feel like I can't reasonable desires privacy in my life and want to know everything about yours.....
I think we hold celebrities (by YT definition or otherwise) to a higher standard because they are already idyllic in our minds. If we in our minds already see someone in a box of jumpcut perfection then it's arguably natural that we would project perfection on everything they do, relationships included. This isn't right or wrong, but provides a space for some pretty outlandish and unrealistic expectations and claims on celebs.
I'd say part of the skewed view of people on the internet is that since they try to present the best view of themselves and cut out the other stuff, people see them as idealised. Either because that's what the videos or whatever content seems to represent or because viewers just want to believe that there's someone who doesn't have problems.
Maybe it's just an admiration for, say, their musical ability run amuck and turned into an admiration of their apparent perfection. The two aren't related.
Also, I doubt I'd be nervous to actually meet you or any other YouTuber in person, but I would probably be excited because the transition from 'face on a screen' to face-to-face personal contact is a big one, and my brain would probably interpret the excitement as nerves. Excitement and nervousness share a lot of the same physical and mental characteristics, at least for me.
There's no way someone would go out in public and stand on a soapbox and say "I dislike [insert here]", but people seem to view the internet (particularly sites like Twitter) as a soapbox where everything has to be meaningful. I mean, take the 'Twitter Joke Trial' incident in which someone's accused of being a terrorist for making a joke on twitter about blowing up an airport because his flight was delayed. It's an extreme example but ultimately the same principle; people take it too seriously.
So I totally missed the point of your original post, hence the rambling of my respond that did not make sense. Oh well. I supposed if I had sat down and actually listened to everything you said and not crank the volume and listen to it as I did other things, I would have caught your point.
Next time I will try and actually listen. maybe. a little.
I think the emotional effects of film, tv, video etc play into an impulse to identify with or project feelings onto people represented on screen. This is a massive part of advertising etc and seems to characterise relations formed with images much more than words. For example, I 'love' Virginia Woolf but that's not the kind of girl crush I have on Lorelai Gilmore. The film Starsuckers dir. Chris Atkins has interesting things to say about cinematic identification. Interesting video, thanks!
Tempting as it is to play devil's advocate and say "why aren't people allowed to have a negative opinion about him having a negative opinion about something", it's a very good point. People are often quick to adopt others' opinions as their own, judge as other people judge - and when someone stands out against that, it's too easy for their private opinion to be made public.
(sorry my comments are so late)
pbjellybeanful 2 months ago
I would say i want a relationship like yours and hayley's, and it's not because i think it's perfect, it's funny how sometimes (from what I've seen) you guys bicker, and you have little back and forths that make you like normal humans, and when i see videos with you together, you seem like good friends, while you're also dating, and it's cute and nice. I wouldn't actually want a perfectly happy marriage with NO fights, because then it wouldn't be fun and i would be looking forever.
pbjellybeanful 2 months ago
nice hair :D (I'm not being sarcastic)
pbjellybeanful 2 months ago
Everything you said was/is very intelligent and well thought out and on Part One I sent one of my most thought out comments to date. Yet as soon as you said "He has every right to not like music or cake..." all I could think was "Who doesn't like cake?!" Ah well, I guess some people prefer pie.
DreamerRealist 7 months ago
I think that I get your point but you can't actually control your emotions, I was nervous when I met you (If you count that brief conversation a meeting hehe), but I'm also terrified the first day of school of people I already know~ So I guess its hard to know, its weird what you feel and its hard to control who or what we are. ^.^
SiriusSurvives 8 months ago
I really can't say anything with any certainty but it seems to me that if you decide ('you' being a general term) to become "visible" then you have to realize the influence that you have. And that doesn't mean you should be inhibited but it's something you have to take into account. If there's something you're going to say to someone that they may or may not like/agree with you have to be prepared for the consequences of that, and it's just on a much greater scale when you are "visible."
baloneyandtrees 9 months ago
one thing you said was something like "why are people who are more visible held to a higher standard?" and i think something important to remember is that when you're putting yourself out there for people, you're gonna end up being a role model. it's kindof unavoidable. so i think there is a higher standard and that it really makes sense for there to be, because while you're allowed to be human and be you, you have to know that whatever you do is gonna have a big influence on some people
KokoKringle99 9 months ago
for me, i feel like the jumpcut is a more accurate way of representing myself to other people than a one-take video. i'm too lazy to memorize the content of a video and work out pauses and timing, it's much easier to do it in post. but you know me, mike, you've talked to me in person... i talk pretty fast. probably overwhelmingly so. i dunno, maybe it's just my own perception of myself.
fecklessman 10 months ago
A majority of your viewer watch you because "OMG HES SO HOT" or, "you're very pretty to look at", and, coupled wth your musc, that s why they lke you.
If you acted more "awkward" (in the "charlieissocoolike" sense), you would be on the most subscribed list in no tme. I am not saying that you should.
Now let me ask you a question, do you consider yourself a "nerd". Both in the old, derogatory form and in the new "cool, socally akward nerd"
coyote463 10 months ago
Those things get equated because chances are you know the same amount of stuff about that kid in class as you do that kid on YouTube. You might have a few things in common, even one thing. You hear them say funny things. You enjoy those aspects of them. The moment the person, whether someone in real life or in a box on the Internet, does something contrary to who you thought they were, its time to criticize. Its the same response because the amount of information known about each person is equal
orangesho13es 10 months ago
I feel nervous meeting just about anyone, but I guess that's mostly down to what kind of person I am. Unless you're planning on coming over to the UK any time soon, not sure I'm going to have to worry about that for a while :-(
lucyedgehill 10 months ago
and about relationships, bad comparision, but its kind of like watching your favourite TV drama.
for ex. kristina and luke. One day, i just realized. i have no idea if theyre still dating or not.
And they haven't adressed the question at all, and i got scared because seeing my favourite internet couple (similar to a tv show couple) break up is terrible.
But then luke said on his live chat that its because him and her want privacy, and they wont say, which i understand now. But yeah.
cooliokats 10 months ago
BUT i feel i know you through youtube! you dont know US at all, but we know you quite well.
its true about the negative opinion thing, but if i were to reply to someone on twitter, like you, saying "oh you don't like lady gaga?!"
and im not saying that because i judge you, or im not liking you any less. Just mere shock value.
I would say that to my friends too, but i think when people say like, "oh, who DOESNT like her" kind of thing, isnt hate, its more, shock value.
cooliokats 10 months ago
I had no idea you went to school with AJ.
Spintown7 10 months ago
On a more selfish note, I think I want them to work out well, simply because their relationship gives me hope. Hope that two nerdy,shy, and akward (which they both have said about themselves) people can find someone who cares and loves them for them. I would be devestated if something happened between them, because it shatters this perfect illusion and happy world you create around them. And reminds you yet again, that the real world can suck. I hope that all made sense!
prongslover77 10 months ago
I figured I would coment on the realtionship part. Not the relationship between viewers and youtubers, but of you and Haley type things. I for one feel invested in other people's relationship, on ahope type of level. Like Lauren from 5ag and her fiance Matt. I've only met either of them twice, and am not close by any means to them. Yet I have this urge for their relationship to work out wonderfuly. Mostly because I think they are both amazing people and deserve a wonderful happy life. (cont)
prongslover77 10 months ago
"we live in houses and eat candy and stuff" :)
Maggggss 10 months ago
With the "loving" you, like a crush or having that nervousness is possibly from you being like their crush or maybe because you show us what you want to show us and never as you said the fights or any thing super-duper personal, and if you did it'll be like watching a reality show, or they see you as the Ideal man, like you stated pretty much nobody has a perfect relationship.
BluePaintersTape 10 months ago
That doesn't really explain WHERE the infatuation comes from. Personally, I think I'm just willing to like people, &if the 'exaggerated' version of someone is funny or smart or musically talented, etc, I will start 'fangirling' them.
And about the opinions thing: I think part of putting yourself out there is that you have to either be ready to censor some opinions for your audience, or ready to TAKE their attack on it. In that case, it's the audience that has to learn to imagine you complexly.
kira902k 10 months ago
Hm. Well, regarding why people might be nervous to meet 'famous' youtubers, I think a big part of it is that we feel that we 'know' you, and we've already formed (probably positive) opinions about you. Meeting you is suddenly bringing up the other side: now it's your turn to form opinions about US. So if I 'love' what I see of a youtuber, I'm going to be very nervous to meet them, because I'm obviously going to want them to 'love' me back as much as they can. (cont.)
kira902k 10 months ago
On the subject of your 'crush' comparison: I think that the common denominator is *admiration from a distance*. What do you think?
colourfulwithaU 10 months ago
On the subject of relationships, I felt much the same way when Dan Brown and Danielle broke up, and the pogotribe exploded. Same thing happened with Dan and the Michael Aranda situation. It just ridiculous, and I just stayed out of the mess.
jsredrose 10 months ago
But you know how irrational people are, they always believe that everyone should live by the same moral standards that they do.
cardboardninjarawr 10 months ago
I think that, while it's ridiculous and stupid for people to get all in a tizzy about a "visible" person not agreeing with their own personal opinion, the visible knows the risks bout expressing such an opinion. At that point, it comes down to whether the subject would rather be dishonest and have a large and ignorant fan base, or whether they'd be completely honest and have a smaller and closer-knit fan base. Clearly, it would be ideal for people to understand that not everyone is the same...
cardboardninjarawr 10 months ago
On streamlining: I have this discussion a lot with regards to film. I work at a film festival so cinematic arts play a huge role in my life - something which I think has had both positive and, for lack of a better word, intriguing effects of my perception of the world. I have this theory that the hyperactivity and restlessness of youth is due in part to the fact that not only do films have fast-paced editing, but often characters forgo basic human behaviors such as closing doors or hanging up
ProjectFutureSelf 10 months ago
I think that some people who are visible and are role models to children are held to a higher standard, which makes sense. No one wants their child looking up to some drug addict. But overall I don't think that just because some is in the public eye that means they should never have a negative opinion. I'd rather people be honest and say a negative opinion then pretend that they like everything because then they seem fake. I think opinions are great because they foster discussion.
SmileAMF 10 months ago
I love hearing unpopular opinions! I think people get all fired up because of this idea that they wish to see themselves in the people that they enjoy watching. More than just wanting to have a one-sided friendship, I think because the image presented to viewers is idealized-and-edited, people try to fill in the blanks....with more idealizations. So when a vlogger comes out with an opinion that doesn't fit, those who imagined the person a differently freak out...
hxcharrypotterfan123 10 months ago
I think that every person should be able to voice there opinions. Now this does not mean by any standard that they should do this publicly at all times. But as people get to be more visible they do need to be more careful with how they portray their opinions.
What I really don't understand though is why other people try to get involved in relationships that they are not a part of. What happened to having a personal life? Why do people feel like they need to know whats going on with everyone?
garrettmbrest 10 months ago
hhh..people are annoying. Do people expect youtubers and popular figures to not have opinions? I LIKE when youtubers and artists have an opinion on something, it creates discussion. Without ANY discussions going on whatsoever, youtube in particular would become a very very shallow place pretty quickly.
Also, I don't understand why people feel the need to have a vested interest in youtubers' relationships. I mean, I understand saying, "Aww, they're cute" and whatenot...but there's a line.
PompTheMoose 10 months ago
In regard to changing how you present yourself to the world, my favorite comedian, Colin Mochrie, is an interesting example of this. As “that bald guy” on Whose Line, he’s quite hilarious and does funny dances or acts strange as part of his job. In real life, fans will go up to him and expect him to be just as crazy. However, Colin is a very shy, quiet person and, while very polite, isn’t crazy. Also, viewers are seemingly forbidden from disagreeing with famous people, even just in comments.
MarchingBandDropout 10 months ago
Not to be shallow but you look different sans hat. In a good way. Wear hats less.
"We live in houses and eat candy and stuff." I love (there's the word again, sorry) that this is your definition of normality and a basis for being able to come up to you and talk.
blessedbyacurse 10 months ago
On the topic of relationships I'm glad you said that. I recently had a discussion with my ex boyfriend and he said that in a relationship there shouldn't ever be arguments. I told him that it was impossible and he still disagrees. On the topic of opinions I know what you mean people freaked out when there was that rumor Miley Cyrus didn't like Rebecca Black. Why should we care? I think we should all be able to express our opinions freely without getting crap for it, no matter who we are.
XDani278X 10 months ago
Not going to be one of my long comments, but I just want to say that I think that more visible people have a RESPONSIBILITY to show everyone that you CAN have different opinions and you CAN dislike something because it shows people that conforming on opinions or ideals when internally you don't want to IS A BAD THING.
starrrry311 10 months ago
YouTubers and celebrities can have negitive opinions?! Say whaaaaaaat??
Haha I'm totally kidding, that's obviously true, but I never thought about that in the way you said it. Especially in terms of a large fan base, I totally understand why people would get so upset over things they disagree with. People want to be just like their idols; or rather, they want their idols to be just like them. So when they are different, there can be some backlashing.
My mind has been blown.
terrastar12 10 months ago 2
Just on the subject of love, before I continue watching the video:
I wonder if the fact that our use of the word "love" could somehow be related to the fact that, at least in French, "like" and "love" are the same word ("aimer"). "Je t'aime" is I love you, but you could say "j'aime la plage" ("I like the beach"). There's also "adorer" (which means just what you think: "adore"), but it's not the same. Perhaps that could somehow be tied into our "overuse" of "love."
katiemayyy710 10 months ago
And also, with regards to the crap people with a following get for unpopular opinions: the reason we connect with youtubers is because you guys are real people, just like us. I think when a youtuber gives an opinion that isn't shared by some of the community, it's tough because it shatters some of the "he's just like me!" mindset. We look up to youtubers for being real, everyday people, and I think we get scared, sometimes even angry, when these differences of opinion pop up.
emhillz 10 months ago
As much as I like to think that falling in "love" with someone in your class or wanting to date them is different from the way someone "loves" a youtuber--I can't help but feel like it's fundamentally the same concept. In both instances, you're seeing one side of somebody. In the case of someone in your class, you see how they act in school, but you really know nothing about them. Maybe we forget to "imagine people complexly" and instead get infatuated with the side we see ourselves.
emhillz 10 months ago
I think youtubers are entitled to having whatever opinion they want.
luvsthespotlight 10 months ago
I think we (or at least I) sometimes forget that youtubers are just people who have videocameras. We turn the person into a sort of character and once we have an image of our head of this character, we feel unsettled when that person does something that doesn't match with the assumptions we've made about him. Videos like these, with no jumpcuts or editing, remind me that youtubers are just people like I am. Which is good.
allshalldelight 10 months ago
Wait.... You live in a HOUSE?! And you eat.... CANDY?! I thought you lived in this little box on my computer screen and ate the internet!
allshalldelight 10 months ago
Yhe way I see it, most of the internet does recognize that everyone gets their own opinion. But when they disagree with you, many people don't know how to start an argument or state their counter-opinion appropriately. Instead of saying, "I disagree and this is why," they will say "What are you thinking? You're obviously wrong because I disagree." Which is too bad.
fearleeshay 10 months ago
Sorry for writing so many freaking comments, but I just wanted to make it clear that I DO think it is wrong for people not to let more visible persons not have negative opinions. I was referring more to negative acts.
Oh, and I'm not sure if my first comment posted, so...... whoopsies!
Thanks for leading this discussions, I think it's quite interesting hearing people bring up different points. My mind processes keep going on tangents ;)
lidiluvu 10 months ago
I think viewers hold big YouTubers up as this perfect example that always does what they like, admire, or agree with. Because they're "famous" and flawless, right? And when that YouTuber fails at the person's perception of them, the viewer gets mad.
jujubeans360 10 months ago
*continuation of earlier comment* Plus, we feel that since more visible people reach more people, we have to quickly correct their mistakes. ex.: if you waste paper we feel like we have to tell everyone else that what you did was wrong, since obviously everyone else is a mindless robot. *cough* No matter if famous people like it or not, they are role models. And if those role models do something wrong, we seem to use it as a learning lesson for everyone else. It's not fair but it's true.
lidiluvu 10 months ago
You are not famous until there are strangers sleeping between the trash cans in front of your house just to be close to you.
the3halvesman 10 months ago
If he's allowed to share his negative opinion with everyone why can't others share their positive opinion with him?
thewalruswasdave 10 months ago
It's like when people get mad at Alex Day for saying he's an atheist. These are people who ask him what his religious beliefs are or if he believes in a higher power, and when they hear that he doesn't believe in God they get very upset. It's ok for their friends to be atheist, but as soon as someone "visible" is it's this massive problem. Everyone, no matter how in the public eye they are, should be allowed to express their own opinions respectfully.
livinonaprayer802 10 months ago
To me the ability to express a personal opinion is what's great about youtube/blogging/internet in general as opposed to traditional media. I mean, isn't this why we came here in the first place, anyway?
ThatBookGirl 10 months ago
My friend was looking for a roommate for next year on Facebook and eliminated people who had different music tastes. I feel like that's not a good criteria for whether or not you can share a living space with someone. I'm more concerned with whether they are hygienic or not, which is why it's hard to judge someone on Facebook 'likes' - like how you can't judge someone based on their edited YouTube videos. You're right, it's really hard to accurately get to know anyone online.
taylahboone 10 months ago
I think that what you were saying about people who are visible getting shit for speaking their opinions goes back to what you were saying about youtube communities a while ago. A lot of times people forget that just because they're part of the same community as someone doesn't mean they like ALL the same things. I'm very far from being the same as everyone in any "community" I identify with, but for a lot of people who are more invested than I am, maybe that's a hard thing to reconcile.
passionfruitjolt 10 months ago 8
This double standard was never part of my live but it's all over the internet and that's strange. And it hasn't got less strange in the last 11 years. :)
And I hate assupmtions about other people's relationships or the need to comment on them or be involved.
firnantok 10 months ago
I think the internet has become this really great, uniting vehicle. And with that uniting thing comes this expectation that if we're united on this thing, then we ought to be united on everything--you get it all the time on the Nerdfighter boards where one person points out that "everyone else" is a bunch of liberals, or fans of Charlie, or anything like that. The unity that the internet creates tends to make people forget that the people united are still individuals.
SkiesOfYellow 10 months ago
I used to be the kind of person who was offended if someone didn't like the music I liked. I think that there are a LOT of people out there like that. They don't understand that people are allowed to dislike something you like and like something you dislike. And those people are definitely visibly multiplied when you have a large following. (that's not to say that it's okay for people to say, "HOW DARE YOU," because that's just childish to give such a negative backlash to someone's opinion)
elizziebooks 10 months ago
I honestly don't understand why there is a double standard. I never have. There are things you, for example, have said that I completely disagree with but I get that you're allowed to have your own opinion on things and I don't stop watching your videos or listening to your music just because I disagree with a few things you say. I don't understand why people don't get that no one is going to agree with their opinions on every subject. People are different and have different views and that's ok.
amsinger112 10 months ago
Firstly, I think that the people who form a friendship-like attachment to youtubers do so because they have something in common with them. Similarities and differences are a big part of how we define our world and ourselves, so when you see a video of someone who has some similarity to yourself, you can't help but associate yourself with them as if they were really a friend or someone you know. You assume they are the same as you, and the connection is forged.
angelwings1086 10 months ago
Secondly, when one does this with someone they don't really know, they start reversing the situation and project their thoughts and views onto this person, assuming (subconsciously) 'if this person is akin to me they must feel the same'. This is why some get enraged over an opinion they asked for. They assume this person would have the same view as them and feel betrayed in a sense because it isn't so. Also, opinions have more weight when more people hear them (shouldn't be, but it's true).
angelwings1086 10 months ago
Thirdly, as for 'perfect' relationships, not realizing that the whole picture is not there and that it is really not of anyone's business except for those involved... I don't understand that. Anyways, that was long but there's my shpiel. ^_^
angelwings1086 10 months ago
. I think they're held up to higher standards, because people get a false representation of someone, when you see that and Its harder to accept that someone isn't how you thought they were. which makes the judgement harsher.
ThatsKindaGraphic 10 months ago
Again, here's another thing of which I'm guilty. I've totally jumped on the "why did they break up?! That person sucks!" thing, but it was a couple years ago, and it's something I certainly have not done since. We're in this pool of personalities, and when you watch someone, read their blog, listen to their music, you become attached to them. You think they are sharing with you things that they would only share with their friends, and it takes a while of being an "Internet person" to realize
emmfan09 10 months ago
@emmfan09 they're only putting online fragmented bits of themselves. I think it's also a product of the average age of the audience to whom YouTubers are broadcasting themselves out. It's 13- to 17-year-olds. When I was 13, I of COURSE thought that I knew everything there was to know about a celebrity if I read every single fan sit and interview about them. Through maturation, I learned that it's simply not the case. It's an interesting dilemma, but I don't think it's fixable.
emmfan09 10 months ago
"I put my pants on just like you, one leg at a time. Then I go and make gold records."
coolgeek2751 10 months ago 33
I'm pretty sure I hugged you the first time I met you. And then I was like "Hey I'm PenguinHatGirl, do you remember me?" and you did and that was kinda exciting. Now if I ever meet you again I won't have to be nervous (except I totally will be 'cause I'm just that kind of person)
I honestly had never really considered what your relationship or John Green's marriage was like lol I guess it's probably pretty good?
TresChic16 10 months ago
I think I'll elaborate on the love topic in this comment because I didn't really on the last video, to me when I say I love a YouTuber I'm saying I love their music or I love the content they produce. I guess you could say I like them to the point that they seem like cool people and I'd like to get to know them but obviously nobody can go further than that because they don't know you. Love as you said has a variety of meanings, you really need to get the context behind what the person is saying.
jamielikeschickens 10 months ago
That's a double standard not many people think about! Especially because viewers are not consciously affected by it. It's not hard to see how people would think that a well known couple has a perfect relationship when all they see are the public good parts of it, especially younger people who are at an extremely impressionable age. I also find it very interesting how youtube has created different types of people society has never seen before (different types of vloggers, for instance)
mizziisawesome 10 months ago
I agree with you. And I try very hard not get too involved in the actual lives of people I watch. I don't know, I feel like I can't reasonable desires privacy in my life and want to know everything about yours.....
Semzi10 10 months ago
I think we hold celebrities (by YT definition or otherwise) to a higher standard because they are already idyllic in our minds. If we in our minds already see someone in a box of jumpcut perfection then it's arguably natural that we would project perfection on everything they do, relationships included. This isn't right or wrong, but provides a space for some pretty outlandish and unrealistic expectations and claims on celebs.
lizziemcmizzie 10 months ago
I'd say part of the skewed view of people on the internet is that since they try to present the best view of themselves and cut out the other stuff, people see them as idealised. Either because that's what the videos or whatever content seems to represent or because viewers just want to believe that there's someone who doesn't have problems.
Maybe it's just an admiration for, say, their musical ability run amuck and turned into an admiration of their apparent perfection. The two aren't related.
InvisibleFlies 10 months ago
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bllygt 10 months ago
"we live in houses and eat candy in stuff." YES.
lizziemcmizzie 10 months ago
(-: "we eat candy and stuff" good to know...
I love listening to your thoughts, great live yesterday.
Annaconda1984 10 months ago
Also, I doubt I'd be nervous to actually meet you or any other YouTuber in person, but I would probably be excited because the transition from 'face on a screen' to face-to-face personal contact is a big one, and my brain would probably interpret the excitement as nerves. Excitement and nervousness share a lot of the same physical and mental characteristics, at least for me.
WikiRiffs 10 months ago
haha "we live in houses, we eat candy and stuff" i'll definitely keep that in mind if i ever meet a youtuber :)
JodiBakerIsJellyBaby 10 months ago
There's no way someone would go out in public and stand on a soapbox and say "I dislike [insert here]", but people seem to view the internet (particularly sites like Twitter) as a soapbox where everything has to be meaningful. I mean, take the 'Twitter Joke Trial' incident in which someone's accused of being a terrorist for making a joke on twitter about blowing up an airport because his flight was delayed. It's an extreme example but ultimately the same principle; people take it too seriously.
WikiRiffs 10 months ago
So I totally missed the point of your original post, hence the rambling of my respond that did not make sense. Oh well. I supposed if I had sat down and actually listened to everything you said and not crank the volume and listen to it as I did other things, I would have caught your point.
Next time I will try and actually listen. maybe. a little.
swcole916 10 months ago
Comment removed
swcole916 10 months ago
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Oh and I fully expect you to be nervous to meet me. It is normal.
swcole916 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I think the emotional effects of film, tv, video etc play into an impulse to identify with or project feelings onto people represented on screen. This is a massive part of advertising etc and seems to characterise relations formed with images much more than words. For example, I 'love' Virginia Woolf but that's not the kind of girl crush I have on Lorelai Gilmore. The film Starsuckers dir. Chris Atkins has interesting things to say about cinematic identification. Interesting video, thanks!
somethinglikeahaiku 10 months ago
Tempting as it is to play devil's advocate and say "why aren't people allowed to have a negative opinion about him having a negative opinion about something", it's a very good point. People are often quick to adopt others' opinions as their own, judge as other people judge - and when someone stands out against that, it's too easy for their private opinion to be made public.
WikiRiffs 10 months ago
I know I shouldn't, but I probably would feel nervous if I ever met you...:P
discogreat 10 months ago