Kermode Uncut: Transforming or Recycling?

[Lessdeth14]

No idea. However, my suggestion is taking the entire Transformers trilogy and sticking it up Michael Bay's where-the-sun-don't-shine.

[skinwalkerxxx]

this is the definition of a hack. Bay is like the Rob Liefeld of movies

[Steadno]

now that i know this i can tell directors to stfu when they cry about samples from their flicks being used in hiphop.

[xfoolsgoldx]

Rambo First blood

[69fasterpussycat]

Umberto Lenzi is without a doubt the most shameless plagiarist in the movie industry. His war movie, 'Contro 4 Bandiere' consists of 30% of Castellari's Eagles over Londen. Also, all the gore sequences from 'Eaten Alive' have been lifted from other cannibal movies.

[BopNiblets]

Didn't X-men: First class use the same opening scene with Eric Lensherr in the concentration camp from the first X-Men? Seems perfectly justifiable to me!

[cornology]

There's a sound effect of children playing that is used at the end of the original cut of "The Exorcist" that can be heard in "Halloween" in the scene where Tommy is teased by kids as he leaves school with his pumpkin - don't know if that counts but I thought Dr K might enjoy the "Exorcist" inclusion!

[topper171]

I've noticed that Julia Roberts has been recycling her acting performances from the early 90's.

If you look very carefully you will see that she is doing the exact same character in everything she does.

[Filmzie]

@topper171

Same acting school as Jennifer Aniston.

[marlboroman1985]

Woody's essentially been recycling the same script for thirty years, and Kermode is not bothered by that? But he's concerned with the artistic ramifications of Michael Bay recycling FX for a robot movie for twelve-year olds?

[MrKeefaz]

@marlboroman1985 No, he's not. He's saying that it's completely inconsequential and merely using it as a springboard for a larger debate about recycling elements from other films. Did you not just watch him say this?

[marlboroman1985]

@MrKeefaz I don't want to get into an inane arguement, but he specifically says "recycled footage"; I'm guessing he isn't including rehashed scripts as the same recycled footage. And he never mentions anything but sampled special FX. But who cares.

[Vebinz]

The "Blade Runner" example isn't really valid since that's non-used footage.

Ridley Scott did use some sounds and monitor footage from "Alien" in "Blade Runner" though.

[DSQueenie]

there is a spesific clip of childrens laughter that get used time and time again that drives me mad!

[MrDenham]

That yelping dog sound as well, it's used in American psycho, the resident evil games and pretty much anywhere a dog gets hit. It's become The Wilhelm scream between me and friends to spot

[MrDenham]

The use of the lullaby from Zelda in scott pilgrim, not a nod to another film but it really resonated with the right people

[gus2029]

When the Germanic tribe comes out of the forest at the start of Gladiator, they use the war cry from Zulu

[pauldice]

Bits of 'Dante's Inferno' turn up in the hallucination sequences of 'Altered States'.

[FamousMortimer]

The dinosaurs in Citizen Kane is my favourite.

[SpeedFreakNO]

The sound in Doom II on the final map where the boxes comes out of the wall. The sound they make doing that, is used so many times in both movies and games. I wonder if it was new for Doom II, or from somewhere else.

[ec123456789able]

i actually quite liked ''The Island'' although i genderally don't care for Michael Bay, although i don't think that recycling stuff is that bad if it is done in the right context. i heard that one sound effect has been recycled countless times since the 1940's. i can't remember which one though.

[simonpreston]

And the Chinese lifted an explosion from Top Gun and tried to pass it off as real life!

[keflar5]

Godfather two is the best example but it was only liffted from the first film, when he tells his brothers he is joining the army

[pauldice]

@keflar5 Do you mean the birthday scene at the end of Godfather 2? I always thought that was shot at the same time as the rest of the film, with Marlon Brando refusing to reappear because of his bad treatment by the studio in the first film.

[paul1994uk]

In last few Harry Potter film's, it's obvious they sampled scenes. Like Deathly Hallows Part 2 in the "Princes Tale" sequence." Scenes from the first HP film and PoA were used. Among others. I'm on the fence about it, I noticed it immediately so I'd say it was "Michael Bay", but it was meant to be used artistically.

[TrevorKingKwong]

It's artistic when it provides a new, interesting way of looking at/hearing the recycled sound clip. Michael Bay does not give us a new and interesting way of looking at the recycled clip--it's just some exploding rubble or whatnot. Allen's film mentioned here (though not really high-quality artistic stuff) is nevertheless artistic because he's giving us the clip from a different point of view--most importantly, his.

[weejockpoopongmcplop]

It's a little bit Michael Bay when you take footage from an old movie and add a bloody great metal monster smashing about.

[zionravescene]

As to Kermode's points raised about reusing material, I think of the use of the WIlhelm Scream as a loving homage and in-joke from the creators - I mean the LOTR films have one or two Wilhelms each, for example, for thsoe willing to spot them. The budgetary reasons esp. re: Star Trek movies are another reason, esp. for an audience who may appreciate the move and wouldn't notice. Creative movie cross-pollination e.g. Blade Runner vs Shining is fun too. Basically it's all fun esp if used cleverly.

[zionravescene]

One last thing: one of the musical cues from Jonny Greenwood's score for There Will Be Blood was a reused track from his reused from his previous work for Bodysong. I remember Kermode once ranted about how he thought that this technicality meant that Greenwood was ineligible for nomination for his TWBB score at the Academy Awards.

[BrianMaddenDesign]

An episode of the A team used a clip from the film Airplane where the plane crashes into the airport

[zionravescene]

I think I'm the only person who remembers the Roger Corman-produced sci fi film "Space Raiders" (about a young kid who stows aboard a spaceship stolen by space pirates) which reused the same special effects and ship models and shots, and even James Horner's score, from "Battle Beyond The Stars."

Oh, and Kermode: get a shave, you hippy!

[ohthepeppers]

i love the wilhem scream, i get a strange kick out of listening out for them every time i watch a movie

[gisforgillett]

Gerry Anderson always used recycle the same shots, footage and sound samples across all of his productions for the entire of his career

[21stCenturyCat]

not exactly the same but Battlestar Galactica famously, repeatedly used many of the fighter FX shots throughout the series.

and in terms of recycling your Transformers 2 and 3, Pirates of the Caribbean 2 to 4, and Sex and the City 2 reviews seemed awfully familiar... ;-)

[Regenmacher175]

As far as I'm concerned it's never warranted. if someone loves a particular shot or sound let them recod something that looks or sounds similar but do not just copy-pasting something. Creativity and imagination should have no limits and it's just sad seeing respeted filmdirectors sink so low. It's all a little bit Michael Bay to me.

[KillahMate]

@Regenmacher175 So creativity and imagination should have no limits... except this limit, which is different from all those other limits because it prohibits something you don't like. Uh huh.

[Regenmacher175]

@KillahMate this limitation is justified because it prevents redundancy and gets directors to use their skill instead of just editing stuff togeher. My limit is not a limitation on creativity. I agree that one can mix sounds or images together but by doing so at least something new is being created, whereas just stealing images and sounds that someone else tok the time to film or create is stupid at the least and at worst it's criminal because films are protected by copyright.

[AHALambda101]

kung pow!!

[billyquicksp1]

In the Quantum Leap episode in Vietnam The Leap Home Part II during the final battle a shot from Predator is used with the soldiers blasting the trees. Guess they needed something with a little more punch than there budget would allow.

[rotterization]

spielberg also used that godzilla sound effect at the end of jaws, when the shark's body sinks at the end

[RAIDERS58th]

George Lucas used ROTJ footage of Darth Vader's shuttle landing inside the new death star and rammed it into TESB; at the same time cutting that wonderfully terse line from a seething Vader - "Bring my shuttle" and replacing it with "Alert my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival." Yuck! The effect is jarring because said footage is far to bright, detailed and glossy for a movie like TESB that was shot in an almost cinema noir style and on less sophisticated early 80s' film stock.

[RAIDERS58th]

STAR TREK 2 used a lot Enterprise launch footage from the first movie. I didn't notice until several viewings and years later. And when I did notice, I didn't like it. It took away from a great movie.

[MattAndersonFilms]

My favourite instances of recycling is in almost everything Edgar Wright directs. BUT it's perfectly fine and perfectly acceptable due to the fact that Wright pays homage to his favourite films, rather than just recycling applicable material. Truly, this is the most complimentary mode of film making.

[matychan]

I actually think it's worse when a fantastic movie soundtrack is used in trailers for upcoming movies, such as the often used "Bishop's countdown" from James Horner's soundtrack to Aliens.

It is used so many times, that I've stopped shouting in the theatres when it appears in trailers.

[avastyer]

That bit in The Rescuers when they fly past a window...

[robrax]

I actually detest recycled sounds even more than footage because it's more sneaky. Things like 'glass breaking' and 'little baby laughing' always sound the same. Not to mention explosion/impact sounds in action movies. It really grates and makes a movie feel generic. Ironically sound effects are probably the cheapest and simplest thing to do yourself. No CGI required just a tomato and a hammer.

[Woodshatter]

I don't suppose Troma counts do they? :P

[hanshotfirst1138]

What is up with the beard Mark? You're in need of a cleanup shave!

[fistobuddha]

@hanshotfirst1138

A quiff with a beard? Gandalf never had it so good.

[hanshotfirst1138]

To be fair to Michael Bay (never thought I'd say that) I'm guessing the scene in question was the one where the stuntman was injured and Bay probably replaced it as a result. I haven't seen The Island, and to be honest, so many of Bay's shots last less than a few seconds I probably wouldn't have noticed.

[aeropagitica]

The new trailer for 'The Dark Knight Rises' steals footage from and voice-over of Morgan Freeman from David Fincher's 1995 'Se7en'.

[Pettingill]

I watched a movie called Impostor with Gary Sinise and it had scenes completely lifted from Starship Troopers. It was distracting and awkward to watch.

[LePierre]

I'll never understand why people keep using the Wilhelm scream. It always sounds so naff and out of place.

[strictlysega]

a show called the middleman made the effort to put the wilhelm scream in every episode.. but yeh im a sucker for that sound effect i get all excited when i see it added into a scene of a show or movie, but to answer your question doc, in my opinion its artisticly valid till you start re useing actors as was once proven by Crispen GLover sueing Bob Zemeckis for re useing him in the second film without paying him. Glover was a bit of a prick about it but it still holds true, unless permission...

[Tinkererer]

nice beard

[winters0123]

*for humour or development of plot and character. Bay does not have such justifications.

[winters0123]

Well you mentioned Woody Allen and Zelig came to my mind before then - a film that used old footage extensively, with Woody and Mia Farrow cleverly and smoothly inserted into the shots. Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid by Steve Martin is another example of a good comedy using mostly (or entirely, I can't remember) old film footage. In these cases, the use is entirely justified. The copying is blatant and is used for a reason, fr

[MrFan32]

that's why i download movies when reviews are poor

[ThomasFishwick]

I think it becomes lazy, rather than an artistic decision, when the film's budget exceeds $190 million. That's more than enough to film a couple of clips. Also it should be a conscious decision that is acknowledged before hand. I've seen the "Clip" in question and there is so much digital mess put in the way that it appears to try and camouflage the fact.

This is, of course, not just limited to this Transformers film. the second one recycled a lot of shots from the original.

[SethHesio]

@owenthepenguin That's not what this is about at all... paying homage to something has nothing to do with reusing existing footage/ material. Please notice the distinction.

[JohnGargo]

Ron Peck incorporated unused footage and outtakes from his film 1978 film Nighthawks for use in his quasi-documentary Nighthawks II, which is partly a history of the original film and partly a mediation on the sexual politics in the decade after the original film's release.

Interestingly, the unused footage was the most interesting aspect of Nighthawks II, which in these days of special edition DVDs and blu-rays are often relegated to the status of supplements... or Michael Bay sequels.

[allaboutdmagic]

Funnily enough, Kermode cites Ridley Scott who's recently been working on Life in a Day film, which is all youtube collages and edited from numerous sources.

[TheNylonStrings]

I remember a scene from the film Ed Wood in which the director fashions a garbled science-fiction narrative out of unused stock footage at a studio. That was visionary stuff though!

[GaiashKetoji]

Transformers 3 is recycling the plot of Transformers 2 which was already recycling the plot of the first film. They're all the same movie.

[ToBePhair]

The Godzilla roar from Duel is also replayed in Jaws when the shark gets blown up and its carcass sinks to the ocean floor. Its a little distorted, but you can definitely hear it.

I only know this because of the 'making of' on the DVD

[GDE]

I think the Toxic Avenger films reused several car crashes throughout the series, to the point that it was a bit of an in joke.

[ehansen3]

@GDE They use it in every Troma film haa

[CPFCEAGLES25]

BEARD!

[JAMcNaughton87]

Oh I forgot to mention Silent Night Deadly Night 2 - about 1/3 of which is flashbacks to the first movie.

[Sisilorulz]

this is very informative

[ThorFan4Life]

When is the official Harry potter review coming?

[simeoneous]

The Boogeyman II. Which is also AWFUL!

[J0Nramirez]

Mark. He recycled his past footage on the highway scene because he couldn't use the footage he shot due to the injury sustained by an extra. Geez. It was consideration to the person who was hurt.

[meinderd80]

From a long time ago, I remember a recycled sound effect in at least two James Bond movies: both near the end of Octopussy and at the end of a fighting sequence in The Living Daylights, a bad guy falls from a plane with the exact same screaming sound.

Also, I think I saw a recycled shot of the same big lake in different Harry Potter movies.

[treegraph]

I would guess the most extensive re-use of old material is or was done at Disney studios. Just search youtube for "Disney's Recycled Animation" for a demonstration, it's a 3min30sec video or something.

And yes, the Star Treck 'out of space'-shots are well known examples too.

[unchillbro]

Stubble doesn't suit you Dr. K.

[Naedlus]

Damn... no love for "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid"? Given the actual costs of doing all of the destruction to vehicles, rather than the puny percentage point of the overall budget, it's fairly expensive to do Bay-esque scenes. The inclusion of robots over top help to take the viewer away from thinking "this is a scene from 'The Island'" and allows them to take it in it's current form, not even bringing film quality into question.

[TheCrowebar123]

The most obvious culprits of reusing sound over and over again have to be in the advertising business. If I hear Lux Aeterna one more time I might need some heroin to calm myself down.

I suppose a good example of this in films is Cannibal Holocaust in the "Last Road To Hell" section, where the director thought it would be entirely appropriate to include stock footage of actual executions. Because lets face it, that film wasn't anywhere near down beat enough.

[thekingofcorsairs]

don't forget benjamin button

[middlebit]

Star Trek: pretty much all of the "swooshing past" shots in the TV series are recycled in practically every episode. But even the Star Trek movies recycled. For example, a shot of an exploding Bird of Prey in VI was reused in Generations without alteration. Justified? I don't know, it seemed pretty strange to a young attentive fan back then. Blow something up for ferks ache!!!

[zionravescene]

@middlebit Some of the Trek movie shots creep into the TV shows too. I think a shot or two of a Klingon running away from exploding consoles in one of the movies crops up occasionally in later seasons of DS9. Plus the Genesis detonation snuck in among the other TNG clips in "Shades of Gray" (the clip show).

Interestingly, not a strict reuse, but the Enterprise approaching and docking at Spacedock in Search For Spock is recreated shot-for-shot with the Enterprise-D in TNG's "11001001."

[molly0000000s]

On a seperate note, does anyone know that equally ubiquitous sound effect that sounds like cabling swaying? I hear it on everything.

[molly0000000s]

Can Dialectics Break Breaks - Situ detournement of an old wuxia film. Not seen it though because hey, it's a Situ detournement of an old wuxia film. Whether recycling or wholesale copying is valid or not however, it's like Godard said, "It's not where you take things from, it's where you take them to".

[mfox4000]

I see what you did there.

[masterofgnargnar]

The sound effect from the end of the Scott pilgrim trailer is at the end of the fast five trailer

[DainBramageStudios]

In those other films, it is either used as a homage or put in due to budget issues. In the Transformers case, it is neither of these. It is just Michael Bay being lazy despite the fact he had $195,000,000 to make Transformers 3. It's just pathetic!

[thepezdispenser]

@DainBramageStudios

Though i´m tempted to agree, if we have to be fair, we don´t really know what Michael Bays intent was. It might be laziness, but there could be some nostalgic reasons why he would "pay homage" to his own film.

[Thegroundissour]

"Liberty 285, code 6, 105 north avenue, 52" I've heard this cop radio sound effect on countless films, video games and TV shows since I was 10 years old. The newest example is The Town by Ben Affleck when he's walking down the street on his own towards the end. It's an effective sound byte to tell the audience that cops are nearby. But has been overused to DEATH

[ZzikoO]

scruffy Mark is scruffy

[drplbiftin]

Jeez, shave Mr. Kermode!

[LivinWorstNightmare]

The Island wasn't even written by Michael bay. Check out The Clonus Project. He even got sued for ripping off that movie so bad.

[BlackMagnumFilms]

"Game of Death", the Bruce Lee movie where he died during production, used some really badly fit in archive footage from Lee's earlier movies.

[Hyman74Roth]

@ 2:43 and 2:58, very clever mr. Kermode.

There is a Goofy cartoon called Hockey Homicide where at the climatic end there are scenes that are taken from other Disney cartoons Such as Pinocchio, How to Play Football, How to Play Baseball, and Victory Through Air Power.

[LaustinSpayce]

Kung Pow - enter the fist is basically an old kung-fu film totally re-dubbed with a few new scenes shot.

[TheHitherto]

Not sure if it suits his question, but I've noticed Clint Mansell's main theme from Requiem for a Dream have been popping up in various movie trailers and TV spots since RFAD premiered ten years ago.

It's been totally overused imo.

[LaustinSpayce]

@TheHitherto Yeah, I've heard Lux Æterna in everything from other movie trailers, to TV adverts, to scrappy corporate videos.

[HelpMyNamesTaken]

Haha, I see what you did with the ending there.

[MrBoBoTom]

Terninator ripped off out-limits.

[laserwolf65]

Well, in the television arena one must always consider the "Power Rangers." The show is made by splicing fight scene footage from a completely unrelated Japanese series called "Super Sentai." The stories and worlds of the two series couldn't be more different.

[metfilmguy2009]

A good example is the Enterprise leaving 'space dock' from Star Trek 2, the footage is actulay the footage of the Enterprise leaving 'dry dock' from Star Trek The Motion Picture because the film makers didn't have the budget to shoot that scene differently. It's cheap, but works for the film and allowed the special effects department enough money for the rest of the amazing special effects in the film.

[zionravescene]

@metfilmguy2009 I actually thought it was a very clever decision when I first saw it, as I imagined it was the sort of thing that happens all the time in Starfleet. Yes, it was mainly a money-saving exercise as the first Star Trek film cost a LOT of money and manpower to make (but nevertheless was still a good box office hit for the franchise).

Interestingly, the mood of that scene in "Khan" is different to the first film: Kirk's wonder and awe is replaced with weariness and a sense of routine.

[sirheavyhitter]

The reason Michael Bay re-used those shots was because the raw footage from the planned stunt had to be scrapped after an extra was paralysed in an accident

[MJStone1974]

dead men don't wear plaid may not be a classic but is a good late night comedy fodder

[roloug95]

thankyou doctor this is so useful because I've always wondered what that sound effect was and why like you said it's in every single goddamn movie that is released

[provenelk]

The a-team used to buy stock shots of helicopters/vehicles crashing and exploding from james bond movies

[nameless12345]

The Wilhelm scream is a joke . It always puts a smile on my face when i hear it in films or in games

[Evilspartacus]

I remember watching a film on sky movies max once and the first half was a mixture of die hard and terminator 2 cant remember the title which is beginning to bug me.

[zionravescene]

@Evilspartacus I seem to remember that in Die Hard, the final scene involving the character Karl reused part of James Horner's score from Aliens. (It even sounds like typical Sci-Fi Horner fare, with heavy use of those trademark diminished fifths, and feels oddly out of place compared to the rest of Michael Kamen's score.)

[marshalsea]

@zionravescene The main Aliens theme is heavily based around Holst's Planet Suite. Check out Mars, Neptune and Saturn for very reminiscent bits.

[ExtremeBogom]

Many Italian exploitation movies.

Umberto Lenzi recycled some of his own footage from one Cannibal flick to the other for example.

[davidwleites]

or he re shoot the same scene again and again and again like the shoot of someone in the foreground and the exploding flipping flying car in the background is in almost in every of his movie

[andgadoline]

They do it in DHP2, footage is reused from the others HP films. Though i'm not sure if that counts

[Hyman74Roth]

@andgadoline Um, sort of, I think it was a flashback and they had license to do that. They do that in the last two Lord of the Rings movies where they show flashbacks of the first movie.

[pastrychef1985]

DEATHSTALKER!

[666deadman1988]

The Star Trek movies (and even some of the television series) are full of reused stock footage from previous installments. A single shot of a Klingon Bird of Prey exploding has been used countless times in various films/episodes.

[zionravescene]

@666deadman1988 Also, interestingly, a few action sequences and SFX shots from TNG even appear in the trailers for some of the Star Trek TNG movies - mostly explosions of big things and (I think) also one or two shots of "older" ships features on the show.

Oh: speaking of Star Trek VI: the brief shot of the Enterprise A sitting in Spacedock comes from the final scene of Star Trek IV, and more of that scene (esp. Spacedock external shots) was reused over Scotty's log entry in Star Trek V.

[666deadman1988]

@zionravescene I always noticed that there were old TNG shots in the trailers lol. A lot of the Spacedock shots are also reused from Star Trek III and IV. Also in Deep Space Nine, many of the large space battle sequences were re-edited or reused in different episodes.

[HamGreenandEggs]

The comedy film Kung Pow: Enter the Fist was pretty much made up of entirely recycled footage with additional characters and sounds inserted

[zKa0sz]

There's alot of this in the music industry too., in terms of 1 or 2 second audio samples being added into music. Daft Punk's Revolution 909 crowd audio sample crops up in tons of other music and indeed movie bits

[thepezdispenser]

@zKa0sz

Reminds me of Girl Talk, his music is only made up off samples from popular and classic songs.

[Murdock13]

"The Limey". Valid.

[RockBottomRiser21]

Looks like the title of an Autechre track.

[Poisonouscouscous]

The first person to come to my mind is Godfrey Ho.

[JAMcNaughton87]

Its possible the Mystery Science Theatre 3000 movie may have reused footage from This Island Earth... that may just be rumour though(!)

[666deadman1988]

@JAMcNaughton87 I've definitely seen the interocitor before.

[MrDenham]

Check Disney films, they use all their old animation loops. So much of Robin hood is lifted from Aristocats and Jungle Book.

[FoBNeverDies]

Kermode can, literally, do no wrong for me!

[lucklessluke]

golden eye uses the the same footage form an earlier scene towards the end

[JinRenegade]

smithn31 00063113 Recycle H264 Mezz v1 0?

[lucklessluke]

bit of an odd title...

[Haeronthegreat]

Hello beard?