I don't believe the Bible is a source of factual information, but for the sake of argument, if God were omnipotent then he could create people with free will. Nor does it preclude free will that an omniscient creator would know beforehand what choices his creatures would make. It would make him evil though, to create us knowing that most of us would choose the road to perdition. Or, as Christians say, send ourselves to Hell.
A friend of mine said this a looooooong time ago. (il recreate it to the best of my memory) he said "that god gave us free will, and that since we have free will he can see multiple versions of the future, depending on what we choose to do with our free will" I was young at the time and I didn't question him further, but I'm wondering, doesn't that contradict god being omniscient? any thoughts about we he said? (looking for a serious answer btw)
The pope is the anti christ. Christian people wake up paul warned us that satan would hi jack the christian church through the blasphemoues anti christ. Rev 17 said the beast sat with the harlot church in ROME the city which lays on seven hills and rules over the kings of the earth that my friends is the PAPACY. Study current events the catholic jesuits control the ten secret socities which rules over the goverments of the earth they are the ones making a new world order on behalf of satan
@staggmo you duality reasoning is faulty. This is human nature to have an opposite, because this creates balance in our minds and eases cognitive dissonance. Also you Christians ARE afraid. Have you ever heard of a god-loving man? Not likely. Though I'm sure you've heard of a god-fearing man.
Whether it came from God or not, you do realize that we all have free will, don't you? I think you should take this video down. It's really embarrassing for you.
@Netwriter I'm not sure what your vision (or version) is on an "omni god". But I do know for a fact that we all have free will. I can do whatever I want to, and so can you.
Looking at another angle, God HAS to let us have free will. If He didn't, we'd all be robots, living in tremendous fear. There would be no love, only obedience.
Also, think about this- there couldn't be love without hate. There couldn't be happiness without sorrow. The list goes on. For one to exist, both sides MUST exist.
@WorldBibleUnion454 I am not a believer in the abrahamic god so I am not restricted by the impossibility of free will with such a god.
George 1:3 "To worship an omnipotent and omniscient god and at the same time profess a belief in free will must be done at the alter of irrationality." The Newest Testament
"Ephesians 1:3-5, 2:4-10 Romans 8:28-30, 9:10-15, 9:16-19, Rev 13:8 and II Timothy 1:9" Oh I see, you have been blasted with idea of predestination towards individuals rather than groups like Jews or Christians as a whole. This is amazing from someone who doesn't even believe scripture, he uses them to defend his untaught, and unstable distortions as we are warned about in Timothy. I would love to talk to you , but not this way with your little snippets of rhetoric that you have accumulated.
@copscott Are you claiming that a person has to believe something to understand it? If not you can just mix that in with your excuses for not being able to stand your ground in this discussion. If anyone here is untaught and unstable in their position it has proven to be you. I will put my seminary training and 40 years of bible study up against you any day and in any place sonny. If you claim prophecy is possible without predestination then you lack any rational or logic.
Oh, and lastly, the idea of an Omni God and free will not being able to co-exist is moronic. If an omni God KNOWS that I will raise my right or left hand does not limit or stop me from choosing which hand I raise. I suppose, He could stop me by a lightning bolt, or hand coming out of heaven or mind control or something, but He doesn't, He allows me to make the choice. Hold your hand up, raise a finger, you pick which one of the five. Even if He knows, or could cause you to pick, He allows choice
@copscott I see you are like all theists, unable to master the simple skill of using the reply link to designate what comment you are responding too. Did you do it on purpose or are you just IQ limited? Free will is impossible with an omni god and is contradictory to scripture. That the bible is contradictory is a given, but no where is free will given to mankind. Sorry.
@Netwriter Okay, there is a reply button that highlights if you cursor over it. As far as my IQ limit, this truly shows your cowardice to throw that out in this kind of forum. I would challenge that face to face or with any test, but i suspect that is not possible.
Secondly, if your demanding for the book,chapter and verse in the Bible that speaks the phrase "free will", it is not there. The principle, idea, teaching of free is almost in it's entirety in the stories and teachings. Just the parables, Good Samaritan, seed on good bad soil, wedding feast invitations, workers in field and many others all scream of free will. Good luck to you in your quest..
Wow, I was hoping that you would have some intellectual honesty that you demand of those that comment, but I don't see it. The principles, ideas, notions, intent and stories in the Bible scream of free will on the human side, otherwise we are all mindless robotic minions, including yourself. I have free will to choose or reject God, just because He warns (or threatens) the consequences will to be eternally with Him or without Him does not change that free will choice.
@copscott "I have free will to choose or reject God" You do huh? So you don't believe the bible? You need to go tear these verses out of your bible: Ephesians 1:3-5, 2:4-10 Romans 8:28-30, 9:10-15, 9:16-19, Rev 13:8 and II Timothy 1:9 Then paste in your own verses where you claim to know god doesn't want robot minions. Before you do this you need to first go read Rev 22:19. Free will is impossible with an omni god and is contradictory to scripture, but believe as you wish cafeteria xian.
I've looked and listened to many of your videos and comments and it is obvious that you are simply responding out of blind anger, hurt, disappointment or something that you feel a God should have fixed, helped, or given comfort, but He did not. Whatever the reason, it really seems such a waste, good luck to you and I hope you find whatever you're looking for.
@copscott I am not angry. I came to my conclusion and the thesis of this video based on scholarship of the bible and logic. What I am looking for is just one christian who can provide chapter and verse or a logical argument where an omni god and free will can coexist. You have failed to do so. Don't feel bad, no other christian or islamist has been able to do it either.
AND, let's say there is NO GOD as you propose. If that is so, whose fault is it for all the problems, pain, hatred, wars, whatever, it's ours, totally ours, mankind's free will.
Now bring a God back in the picture, just because He could stop or change it does not mean He should. He could stop me from touching you, or raising my right or left, but because of free will, He will not. The consequences of my action may follow, whether He warned me or not, or even if He caused the consequences or not.
@copscott If there is a god as you propose then all the pain, hatred, wars, whatever is his fault. Claiming over and over that we have free will when the bible says everything was set in stone before the foundations of the earth is a major fail.
You have obviously been very hurt in your past to go to so much effort against God, Christianity, the Bible, etc. Free will has been offered and demonstrated from the beginning with " you may eat of any tree in the garden, except".
Just because God could stop you as an omni.... does not mean he will. If I raise my hand to touch or hit you, God could stop me, but He won't. If I choose to raise my right or left hand to do this, God would know which, but that does not stop my ability to choose.
@copscott Sorry but I have not been hurt. This video asked you to show chapter and verse where god gives the agency of free will to mankind. I gave you the verses where free will is denied by god, so just claiming it over and over as you do that we have free will doesn't get it done.
My dear friend you have answered yourself. If God has not allow us to make our own choices and do as we plaese-you will be dead already.Can you see that you are speaking of the Most High God and show no reverence whats so ever? You have made a choice to hurt Him and despise His people and you do that continually and yet there is still a breath in your lungs and your heart still bits on average of 70 times in a minute or so, even you haven’t regulated it in years. How do you think that happens?
@bozefilm Free will is impossible with an omnipotent and omniscient god no matter how many time you want to claim otherwise. When you can provide proof that your god is more than just your imaginary invisible friend please let me know. Until then the Most High God is Zeus. Got it?
Joshua 24:15 (King James Version) 15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
@tricialea2000 This doesn't prove free will, it only proves the bible is a contradictory book. To prove free will you need to prove your god is not omnipotent and omniscient. The bible claims in multiple places he is both.
The Bible says all who repent and believe the gospel will not perish.Those who refuse to repent and believe the gospel will not be saved.So atheists what's your excuse for not bowing your knee to Jesus Christ,there's plenty of proof that He is who He claimed to be and you are forced to believe the universe just appeared by magic if you deny GOD DID IT,so if you go to Hell for not believing,then who's fault is it?I agree that God chooses,but He commands all to believe in Jesus,so do it and live.
Free will is found throughout the bible starting with Adam's disobedience in the garden of Eden, continues with Cain's refusal to obey God's command to repent of his error but instead killing his brother who had God's approval, & so on. In the New Testament it can be found in verses such as Mk16:15 “Go into all the world & preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes & is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Man is free to choose life or death.
@JoanDArc77 The god of the bible knew A&E would eat the fruit before he created them. They could not do other than what this omni god foreknew they would do. HIs foreknowledge became his will once he created. If the bible is true and the god there is omnipotent and omniscient as it claims then Free Will is impossible.
@Netwriter Nothing in the bible states that, you made it up - and if it was true then God allowed them to be tested beyond their ability to resist the temptation. What the bible DOES say is that if they chose to disobey Him they would surely die, which is exactly what God foreknew and exactly what He told them would happen if they chose that option. They chose not to believe God, chose to disobey, and they indeed ended up dying - all a result of their free will.
@JoanDArc77 There is no place in the bible where god granted to man the agency of free will. Free will is impossible with an omni god. The bible states clearly that everything is preordained before the foundations of the earth.
@Netwriter A strawman. Free will is found throughout the bible beginning in Gen2, & very vividly in such instances as Nineveh in which God pronounced their certain destruction but when they CHOSE to repent, God reversed His decree. Or the blessing God promised in Exodus6:6-8 upon the 1st generation of Israeilites to bring them into the Promised Land but instead they died in the desert because of their subsequent disobedience & unbelief - results of their free will. Nothing's written in stone
@CBALLEN I did not ask you this because I don't disbelieve you,I do,I ask YOU this because I sent my comment to the wrong person,it was suppose to go to Joan,lol God Bless!
@JoanDArc77 Free will is impossible with an omni god. Everything is just the way a omni god foreknew it would be before the foundations of the world. You can't have a square circle nor free will with an omni god. Just claiming free will is no different than you claiming a circle can be a square.
@dagoose109 The Ninevites were destined for destruction in 40 days from the time Jonah preached to them, but they CHOSE to repent causing God to turn from His intention to destroy them. On the other hand, God had predestined to bless the Israelites by bringing them into the Promised Land, but they later CHOSE not to enter and were instead destroyed for their disobedience and unbelief. These accounts directly affirm not only Free Will but also that no one's destiny is ever written in stone.
@JoanDArc77---Answer this please; If you so not believe that God is Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Infinite, and Eternal, then exactly who do you think is running this show?
@dagoose109 God is sovereign but He doesn't force a relationship with Himself on anyone. Salvation is by invitation, NOT by decree. God offers it as a gift to everyone and will honor their choice no matter what it might be. Everyone must either choose to remain in Adam & die under his condemnation or turn, accept Christ, and receive eternal life thru Him. If you hold to anything different then YOU are attempting to deny God His sovereignty.
@JoanDArc77---Just the opposite. Your Bronze Age conceptualizations and assumptions about God from people who thought the earth was flat is an insult to the Infinite Being. The very idea that every generation since Adam and Eve is guilty by genetic heritage for something they never did is an insane premise as is the idea that Jesus can vicariously take punishment for other people's consequences. On top of this madness, you have a God who punishes souls forever in hell? Gimme a break.
@dagoose109 1st, you should actually read the bible, it will reduce these displays of ignorance. The bible says the world is round and it doesn't teach eternal torture in hell but that the wages of sin is DEATH. 2nd, when Adam transgressed a command which carried a death sentence, we died with him much like if one of your ancestors had climbed aboard the Titanic. He didn't die that day because Christ immediately stepped forward to take the punishment. All those who accept Him will be saved.
@JoanDArc77---At best, the Bible is a story of Bronze Age history and immorality. If it truly were the "Word of God" I would become a devout atheist. Do you really take the Bible as the literal inerrant "Word of God"? If so, I hope you will be saved from this delusion.
@dagoose109 From your last few comments alone, it's obvious you've never read it, or if you have you need some classes in elementary reading comprehension. The bible is the only book in the world that contains literally hundred of prophecies written in advance to the actual events, all 100% fulfilled, some of which continue down to our time period. That alone is proof of it's divine, not human origin. The delusions here are all yours.
@JoanDArc77---Most Christians read the Bible without ever learning the history behind it, and even if they do it is biased information from Christian sources. The Bible was written after many so-called prophecies already occurred. It's nebulous predictions offer no more proof than street corner psychics and tarot cards. However, some of what the Bible refers to coincides with the Mayan Calendar and 2012, but people have been predicting doomsday for centuries. We shall find out soon!
@dagoose109 I know the history of the bible and nothing you said about post event writings is true, such lies are propagated by those who acknowledge the accuracy of the bible and seek to discredit it by any means possible, but it can't be done. Eg, critics claim Daniel, who gave a 2500 year timeline of all Gentile world kingdoms from his day till Christ's return, must have been written circa 165BC instead of 500BC, but even that can't explain away its accuracy down to the present time. Wake up.
@JoanDArc77---Believe whatever you like Sleeping Beauty, but your Prince of Peace ain't coming to kiss you. The fact is there is not a single credible and viable Bible prophecy---can you cite any?
@dagoose I just did little boy but you're obviously too dim-witted & ignorant to recognize it, and I have neither the time or motivation to educate a cretin. I always follow the sage advice about not trying to teach a pig to sing: it's a waste of time and it only annoys the pig.
I agree we have no free will. So you are opposing God and cannot help yourself for doing so And are serving the Devil because God has chosen you to do so, and will at your death fall into the bottomless pit until the Great White Throne Judgment because you served the preordained will of God, and when your name is not found in the book of Life you will try to argue you did God's will; and will be overruled and cast into the lake of fire alive. Why? Because the door to repentance is open to you
@MegaSage007 Why doesn't this determinism cause you to question whether your god is not the most evil being ever created in all of literature? How can a thinking person worship a god who created satan, created hell, then creates billions of people to serve satan then burn for eternity in his hell?
With no free will the door of repentance is not an option. Sorry you do not understand how illogical are your words and belief and how evil is the tribal volcano god of the bible.
@Netwriter I have no problem with God Almighty casting you into hellfire and damnation. You are employed in serious rebel'Lion against the Lord whom I love with all my heart, soul, mind and strength and it is clear to me as you speak arrogantly in all your postings in puffed up self conceit of your high minded ignorance that you enjoying mouthing darkness as though it is light. So even though your destiny is Predestined, it is also well deserved for you to be burned up as trash in the furnace
@MegaSage007 my child please read Luke 6:27, I fear you are straying from the path our great teacher Jesus wants us to follow, don't waste your time trying to reason with these intellectuals they use big words and just confuse us, keep praying for them and following Jesus.. and remember he is sitting next to you reading the comments you type in... so choose your words carefully brother.. may God and Jesus and Holy Ghost all give you their blessings
@MegaSage007 So someone creating billions of people just to torture them in the worst possible way is fine, but being that person created to suffer is the creation's fault? Like if a building falls down it's the fault of the building, not the builders. It's immorality and insanity like this, that makes some people glad your God never existed in the first place.
I love what you are doing and keep doing it because traditional christianity needs to take their blinders off. You have been answering some serious concerns that many christians have and you are doing Gods work even though you are trying to do the opposite. Thanks!
I'm a Reformed Christian(Calvinist), thus, I stress Gods sovereignty and I do not believe in "Free Will", whatever that loosely defined term means. The Original Christians never did, nor did The Original Protestant Reformers.
God predestines, chooses, & calls but His will for men can be rejected. A simple example from the Old Testament is Adam's choice to disobey God's command about eating the fruit. An example from the New is Luke7:30, "But the Pharisees & the lawyers annulled & rejected & brought to nothing God's purpose concerning themselves by refusing to be baptized by John (the Baptist)." And what other than free will can explain your making of such an ignorant video & making a fool of yourself?
@JackMWolfe If the will of the bible god can be rejected by men then he is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. Adam had no choice with omni god, he did as was the will and foreknowledge of the bible god. It seems your bible teaches of an impossible god, one who is omni on one hand and another who is not. You can claim free will but with an omni god it is impossible. Is your god omni?
@Netwriter Ridiculous. Man’s free will doesn’t affect God’s sovereignty in the slightest. 1st, He’s the one who grants man the ability to choose and 2nd, He always retains the right to be the final judge of their choices - they can’t escape the Judgment or the sentence that He will impose. How does it affect God's sovereignty if you choose to be destroyed rather than have a relationship with Him since that's the exact choice He gave to you?
@JackMWolfe It is not his sovereignty, it is his will at issue. Nothing can come between the will of and omni god and its coming to pass. If such a will can be thwarted by his creation then he is not omni. Just stating over and over that man has free will doesn't get it done. Such a claim can not be so with an omni god.
"To worship an omnipotent and omniscient god and at the same time profess a belief in free will must be done at the alter of irrationality."
@JackMWolfe that murdering fear mongering nonsensical non existent creatures described in the Old testament? the Guy that kills babies? He reserves the right to judge me? He wants to forgive me my sins? oh and who forgives him his sins?
He is a freaking murderer, not really someone who should judge others,
I approach the bearded man with his sack of goodies over his shoulder. He smiles kindly and says, "There you go kid." .... "What's this", I reply. "Why, it's your gift. I'm calling it free will", the man says, as he kicks the dust off his boots. "But, I didn't ask for this" "True, but you'll like it", he says. "You can choose now". Somewhat bewildered I look up at him... "Let me see if I've got this... You've given me the gift of free will but I don't get to choose if I want the gift or not?"
Whether or not mankind actually has free will is not asking (or saying) the same thing as whether or not some people BELIEVE they have free will. I take issue with the god-believer who states that, "god gave us free will". It may well be true that mankind HAS free will, but that it was "given", is a paradox. In other words, if a god "gave me" free will, then that "gift" is one that I had no choice about. We can further imagine the "gift" in the following way...
Does Jesus said directly that he is God and worship him anywhere in the bible unequivocally, regardless me and father are one. did he say He is God and worship him?
@DFLOCO93 Since everything is predestined, as this video reveals, I doubt I would be as surprised as those who wasted most of their lives, much of their money, time and energy on their christian religion and end up saying Lord Lord and then being shoved onto the down elevator.
@Netwriter Gee Gary, you really do believe in the Bible and in God but being absolutely negative about everything he does, you can't find anything positive about creation at all. Yet, were someone to pull out a gun to kill you, you would say "Please don't kill me. I want to live." So your theology is hypocritical. You want to live but hate the giver of life.
@MegaSage007 The more we communicate the more it is evident that you are unable to identify any nuance in my words or understand what I am going here. As with you, most christians don't know squat about their own religion or bible. I use their book to straighten them out.
I value my life highly. It is the only one I get for sure. There is nothing hypocritical about that at all. This life has little value to those who believe in a never never land after they die. A death cult for sure.
@Netwriter I never said it was hypocritical for you to value your life. I said the fact you do value it, should offer itself up as proof to you that your theology against God is wrong, since you should appreciate his giving you the life you value so much.
@DFLOCO93 what a shitty reason to believe in jeebus. you're treating your religion like an insurance policy. are you not a true believer, loco? just going through the motions so you can get into heaven?
A few more "free will" verses that I like- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth Isaiah 63:17 Why, O LORD, do You cause us to stray from Your ways And harden our heart from fearing You? Exodus 7:3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart Exodus 7:13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart ...as the LORD had said. Jeremiah 20:7 O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived
I love that you are calm and patient when dealing with a particularly stubborn crowd. I became atheist about four years ago, and now recently have taken mindfulness based meditation classes at my college(with a heavy influence from positive psych).These classes have shown me how impatient and stubborn I'm. I am starting to find peace knowing that there will always be willful ignorance and misguided people(whom I believe do try their best). I still admire your brave efforts to educate the masses
Oh, they'll spout James 1:13-15 and John 9 and a few other verses saying that man is wicked and "lusteth after wickedness continually" and such. And they'll fracture, if not break, the dictionary definitions of various word meanings to justify their views (Calvinism and so forth), but they can, indeed, use verses that say man has a choice... for man always chooses wickedness. If that's circular, they can't see it.
I just had the entire "free will" conversation with my friend. She was all free will this free will that, and then I said "right, so God created free will knowing that 85% of us would reject him" and she goes "yeah", so then "God must have intentionally created 85% of us whom he will punish for something out of our control? Because he made FW and knew the consequences and WANTED the consequences" and I got the same "God just wants us all to love him" response. So tiring
You did it all wrong. What you do is, you say: "God must have intentionally created 85% of us whom he will punish for something out of our control? Because he made FW and knew the consequences and WANTED the consequences"
Here's "free-will" for ya: a person who truly wishes they were never born and doesn't want to live and never wanted to live. Yet a God that already seems to have known that makes that person anyway--even knowing they will later commit suicide....
@Celticking36 Very true. I have heard the example given that god does not intervene because of free will. So when a 10 year old girl is being raped and murdered by a pedophile serial killer, with god right there watching, being omnipresent, the free will of the murderer is more important to the bible god than the free will of the little girl who only wants to live. Her free will is of no importance. It is almost like the god of the bible enables evil doesn't it?
@Netwriter, if I stood by and watched a 10 year-old girl being raped by a pedophile serial killer and did nothing to try and stop it, I would be consider the scum of the earth. However, when God does nothing to try and stop it, people make all kind of crazy ass excuses for him. That has never made sense to me.
@Netwriter Seems like if God truly loved us he would abolish all things which cause suffering in our lives. Any parent who loved their child would save their child from suffering if possible... so unless God isn't all powerful, enabling our suffering is probably the SOFTEST way to put it. I'd prefer to say he is the author of evil and suffering, since by being omniscient he has doomed us to whatever fate we befall. The creator is at fault for its creation's flaws. Not the creation.
@Netwriter God created evil to test us by it so we could learn to overcome evil with good and by suffering wickedness from evildoers we learn sympathy for others who do, & enter into a deeper concern for them. Only the little girl's body is dead when the the serial rapist/murderer is finished with her. Her spirit is alive & is able to be housed in her flesh again when God Almighty is ready, just as you will be housed again in your body either in the 1st or 2nd Resurrection. Take your choice
@MegaSage007 You claim not to believe in free will then claim god is testing us. Please use some critical thinking skills, if you have them. With an omni god who knew before creatiing everything to the smallest detail would not need to test anyone as he would already know the result, the result was decided by god before the foundations of the creation.
You have no proof there is a soul/spirit or that your god is anything more than your imaginary invisible friend. Stop spouting BS.
@Netwriter God doesn't test us as a school teacher or the the local DMV looking to find out what he already knows. When he speaks of testing us, its so we can grow through the ordeal and learn to overcome evil with good. I have all of the proof I will ever need there is a soul/spirit in me. Its your job to build your own faith between you and God or continue to neglect it to your own hurt and those you are leading like a pied piper into blackness of darkness forever.
@MegaSage007 I see you have moved up to selling talking snake oil instead of the usual cup of bile.
Before you were born, were you not in a state of blackness? How miserable was it for you for the ages in that state? You were on the other side, tell us about it.
While on the other side was there a golden city, with millions of people kissing the @ss of the Great OZ? No? Then why do you believe in gold streets, big mansions, and you kissing the @ss of the Great OZ for eternity now?
One thing I know for sure: parts of the Sermon on the Mount were deliberately geared towards making good powerless against evil. If this particular god granted free will, "love thy enemies" and "turn the other cheek" wouldn't have been written. And ultimately, I deconverted for this very reason.
Doesn't the mythology teach that the devil tempts us left and right, but theres few of us who are immuned by it because he gave special few a magical power called grace..
But christians pretty much say "devil tempts you, temptation will seize if you accept christ" Yep, I guess unbiblical.
Free will is a recurring pathetic excuse of all evil but what annoys me personally, most of all, is that they believe that Bible verses are evidence for their cause.
i guess they'll say: "all the verses you offer, you can choose to follow them or not"
ultimately we don't really have the freewill to believe or not believe according to the bible... it isn't freewill if you hold a gun to someones head and say "love me" then shoot them if they don't, especially if it's an invisible gun! what they really mean i guess, is there's really only freewill during this life, not the next, god chooses that
the strangest thing is I don't think that the idea of Christianity being Mono Theistiic is even definate. It's shown that we're supposed to obey any Angel of the Lord that appears to us, so doesn't that mean that they are also 'gods' to us?
Hey Netwriter, here is another example of a lack of freewill. Jonah was commanded to go to Nineveh, but Jonah clearly did not want to go, and chartered a boat to Tarshish(different direction) instead. But instead of respecting Jonahs wishes/choice/freewill the god character stops him at sea, and traps him in a big fish for three days and three nights(Jonah 1:1-17). Whereby forcing Jonah (against his will which is later confirmed.(Jonah 4:1-2)) to go to the city of Nineveh.
I'd say another set of verses against free will is in Exodus when God is hardening Pharoahs heart. I suspect tha tthe storyteller did not believe that pharoah or anyone else had free will.
The main problem I see with this is that often times theists will openly admit that even if everything in their respective scripture were to be proven to be absolutely an irrevocably wrong they would still believe it to be the absolute truth, their only justification being a bastardized version of Pascal's Wager or Descartes meditations. I personally do not understand why they are so willfully stupid as no traditional reasons seem to apply to most modern theists eg apathy, fear, ignorance.
@princeofexcess To keep them on point. I am asking them to prove that their claim of free will is biblically based. Bald assertions and circular reasoning do not do that. I have already heard all those arguments. They litter the comments sections of most of my other videos. It is also part of the challenge, prove it with the bible they claim to believe, not half baked apologetics, word games and bald assertions.
@Netwriter you could just let them be. Christians must first know what circular logic is before they can stop using it. It takes the same skill to make a logical argument as it does to judge if an argument is logical. Christians that are making circular arguments are not helping their cause and could learn something from other people responding and showing them how their argument is circular (and why it doesnt prove anything). Retards will make retarded comments its not their fault
@princeofexcess I have produced a video called "Debate 101 for Christians and Muslims". If you check my video comments sections you will find that I am as patient and instructive as any non christian on Youtube. Do they learn from such efforts?, no!
As Hugh Laurie said "If you could reason with christians, there would be no christians." or something very close to that.
@Netwriter I once was a christian, and so were you. There are people that are christians and do get convinced. It is usually that you will never see them admit to you that they lost the debate but often it is because of peoples pride. I realize that even if i dont change my mind during a debate i will l8ter think about the subject and often alter my views.
@princeofexcess I am aware of this. Ever once in a while I receive a private message from someone telling me that my videos got them to thinking and now they are moving away from their theistic belief and learning to think critically. That is what keeps me going responding to comments some 4 to 5 hours a day and making videos when the inspiration comes to me.
@Netwriter Yes, I agree. it really is impossible for facts to penetrate delusion. Personally, I don't even try. My exchanges with Creationists are not at all intended to educate or convince THEM, because that is not going to happen. I view it as a medium by which I USE the Creationists to show the undecided folks both sides of the debate. Many undecided people watch these exchanges without participating. I try to shine the light of reason on the exit for any who may be seeking it
@Netwriter I simply support the idea of freedom of expression. I dont like when creationists delete my comment because it is "inappropriate" and i dont think they will enjoy it either if you delete their comments because they are "irrational". Im sure they dont even know what it means. Just like i still have no clue what "inappropriate" is in their mindset. Whoever disagrees with them lol. Yet I go with the motto "freedom of speech for everyone even for douchebags!"
@princeofexcess I support that ideal also, but for the purposes of this teaching effort I am not going to allow folks to take the subject off on multiple tangents. I have already rejected a video response from Nephtali1981 about creationism. This of course is what the fundamentalist want to do, change the subject when faced with a truth matter regarding their superstition. Feel free to mirror this video on your channel. Allow anyone to post anything they like.
@Netwriter you have spend much more time making videos on youtube then i have and are probably right. It would create a lot of tangents and might not work as well with your video. Hopefully in the future you will not have the need to censor comment section.
Im glad that you are making those videos. Hopefully you have new ones out soon
@Netwriter and they will never learn unless somebody shows them how they are wrong and how their argument is flawed. If they knew how its flawed they wouldnt believe in God. Noone believes in something that they think is wrong
@princeofexcess I have produced over 60 videos revealing the logical fallacies, absurdities and short comings of religious claims. I have shown them in pin point precision with crystallin logic the errors of their arguments, their belief and their flawed old book. I have not given up, but in general find the vast majority brain damaged to the point that they want to believe more than they want the truth. Truth and logic a blocked by their faith.
@Netwriter plus, if you didn't delete such comments, they would walk away thinking it's a valid argument. But you should also notify them before deleting the comment, otherwise they will never hear anything back, and assume the comment remains (unless they come back later to check if it's still there, but I doubt most would).
It doesn't say that unborn children who die without accepting Jesus go to Heaven or that children who cannot understand go to Heaven, it acknowledges them yet goes right to saying that it's all about who "calleth" or believe... in other words, God don't care if your unborn kid whom he chose to have aborted didn't do anything, they suffer forever?
@sonic8005 Definitely. All mankind suffers because of Adam and Eve, correct? Why wouldn't you suffer for your parents if you died at birth? Then again, God had laid that path and there was nothing you could do to change it. Therefor, God predestines kids to hell for their parents' deeds, and those deeds were predestined to them by God in the first place, and so on. God loves watching people burn for eternity. Why else would he predestine people to hell?
I forget the exact verse, but there is one talking about how Pharaoh was actually planning on letting the jews go, but "God hardened his heart" and so Pharaoh changed his mind, which of course led to the wrath of god and many people (children especially) dying.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Netwrite, how about Deuteronomy 28. Read the entire chapter, it clearly describes the choices and consequences we have as humans. We can choose to obey the lord and it describes the blessing of it, or to disobey as you, and the consequences of it. I know, I know.. you will say, and get angry at me posting this, however, you asked and here it is. God Bless Tali
@Nephtali1981 Which verses in that chapter grants us free will. Are you making the claim that the verses I presented in the video that clearly reveal that everything is predestined from before the creation of the world are false? You need to make a better case than this attempt to be taken seriously. I am not the least bit angry just disappointed by your weak effort to make your case for free will.
@Nephtali1981 Let's assume that you are correct. Do you realize then that you are showing more examples of how the bible contradicts itself? If Netwriter or you are correct, the bible loses. If Netwriter is correct, then you have no freewill and your life is meaningless. No more than a program on a computer. Only doing what you're programed. If you are correct, then the bible contradicts itself and can not be the true word of God, unless God is scatter brained and forgets what he says earlier.
@Nephtali1981 So free-will means you must do right so you won't be punished for choosing to do something you wanted to do wrong? So if you choose right you're rewarded yet if you choose wrong you're punished. How is that free-will when you're told what you need to do? How is it free-will when you must do this or else? How is giving someone an ultimatum free-will?
I don't believe the Bible is a source of factual information, but for the sake of argument, if God were omnipotent then he could create people with free will. Nor does it preclude free will that an omniscient creator would know beforehand what choices his creatures would make. It would make him evil though, to create us knowing that most of us would choose the road to perdition. Or, as Christians say, send ourselves to Hell.
KarenLeFemme 2 months ago in playlist More videos from Netwriter
Freewill is an illusion, religious or not.
Vise555 2 months ago in playlist More videos from Netwriter
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about what he said?*
TheShaitanjr 3 months ago in playlist More videos from Netwriter
A friend of mine said this a looooooong time ago. (il recreate it to the best of my memory) he said "that god gave us free will, and that since we have free will he can see multiple versions of the future, depending on what we choose to do with our free will" I was young at the time and I didn't question him further, but I'm wondering, doesn't that contradict god being omniscient? any thoughts about we he said? (looking for a serious answer btw)
TheShaitanjr 3 months ago in playlist More videos from Netwriter
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The pope is the anti christ. Christian people wake up paul warned us that satan would hi jack the christian church through the blasphemoues anti christ. Rev 17 said the beast sat with the harlot church in ROME the city which lays on seven hills and rules over the kings of the earth that my friends is the PAPACY. Study current events the catholic jesuits control the ten secret socities which rules over the goverments of the earth they are the ones making a new world order on behalf of satan
vladimirkovalski 3 months ago
@staggmo you duality reasoning is faulty. This is human nature to have an opposite, because this creates balance in our minds and eases cognitive dissonance. Also you Christians ARE afraid. Have you ever heard of a god-loving man? Not likely. Though I'm sure you've heard of a god-fearing man.
KomradeKD 4 months ago
Whether it came from God or not, you do realize that we all have free will, don't you? I think you should take this video down. It's really embarrassing for you.
skaggmo 6 months ago
@skaggmo Free will is impossible with an omni god.
Netwriter 6 months ago
@Netwriter I'm not sure what your vision (or version) is on an "omni god". But I do know for a fact that we all have free will. I can do whatever I want to, and so can you.
Looking at another angle, God HAS to let us have free will. If He didn't, we'd all be robots, living in tremendous fear. There would be no love, only obedience.
Also, think about this- there couldn't be love without hate. There couldn't be happiness without sorrow. The list goes on. For one to exist, both sides MUST exist.
skaggmo 6 months ago
@skaggmo The god of the bible is claimed to be an omni god, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. With such a god free will is impossible.
Based on your logic heaven will be full of robots and people hating each other.
Sorry dude free will is impossible with the god of the bible. Thank goodness the bible god is just the invention of bronze age goat herders.
Netwriter 6 months ago 3
Prophecy is coming true already the scoffers are all over the place just like Christ said.
A1truth 8 months ago
@WorldBibleUnion454 You've just expressed a doubt, that proves nothing except that you were meant to answer that...
Acrimonator 9 months ago
@WorldBibleUnion454 I am not a believer in the abrahamic god so I am not restricted by the impossibility of free will with such a god.
George 1:3 "To worship an omnipotent and omniscient god and at the same time profess a belief in free will must be done at the alter of irrationality." The Newest Testament
Netwriter 9 months ago 2
Freewillists, prove me determinism is wrong... XD
Acrimonator 9 months ago
"Ephesians 1:3-5, 2:4-10 Romans 8:28-30, 9:10-15, 9:16-19, Rev 13:8 and II Timothy 1:9" Oh I see, you have been blasted with idea of predestination towards individuals rather than groups like Jews or Christians as a whole. This is amazing from someone who doesn't even believe scripture, he uses them to defend his untaught, and unstable distortions as we are warned about in Timothy. I would love to talk to you , but not this way with your little snippets of rhetoric that you have accumulated.
copscott 10 months ago
@copscott Are you claiming that a person has to believe something to understand it? If not you can just mix that in with your excuses for not being able to stand your ground in this discussion. If anyone here is untaught and unstable in their position it has proven to be you. I will put my seminary training and 40 years of bible study up against you any day and in any place sonny. If you claim prophecy is possible without predestination then you lack any rational or logic.
Netwriter 10 months ago
Oh, and lastly, the idea of an Omni God and free will not being able to co-exist is moronic. If an omni God KNOWS that I will raise my right or left hand does not limit or stop me from choosing which hand I raise. I suppose, He could stop me by a lightning bolt, or hand coming out of heaven or mind control or something, but He doesn't, He allows me to make the choice. Hold your hand up, raise a finger, you pick which one of the five. Even if He knows, or could cause you to pick, He allows choice
copscott 10 months ago
@copscott I see you are like all theists, unable to master the simple skill of using the reply link to designate what comment you are responding too. Did you do it on purpose or are you just IQ limited? Free will is impossible with an omni god and is contradictory to scripture. That the bible is contradictory is a given, but no where is free will given to mankind. Sorry.
Netwriter 10 months ago
@Netwriter Okay, there is a reply button that highlights if you cursor over it. As far as my IQ limit, this truly shows your cowardice to throw that out in this kind of forum. I would challenge that face to face or with any test, but i suspect that is not possible.
copscott 10 months ago
@copscott No cowardice here, just your lack of computer skills. Blame them on me if you like but readers of this forum will see reality.
Netwriter 10 months ago
Secondly, if your demanding for the book,chapter and verse in the Bible that speaks the phrase "free will", it is not there. The principle, idea, teaching of free is almost in it's entirety in the stories and teachings. Just the parables, Good Samaritan, seed on good bad soil, wedding feast invitations, workers in field and many others all scream of free will. Good luck to you in your quest..
copscott 10 months ago
@copscott If anyone needs some luck it is folks who claim free will when it is logically impossible with an omni god and is counter to scripture.
Netwriter 10 months ago
@Netwriter Logically impossible? By what kind of logic? An Omni God could just as easily allow things to happen as He could stop or cause them...
copscott 10 months ago
Wow, I was hoping that you would have some intellectual honesty that you demand of those that comment, but I don't see it. The principles, ideas, notions, intent and stories in the Bible scream of free will on the human side, otherwise we are all mindless robotic minions, including yourself. I have free will to choose or reject God, just because He warns (or threatens) the consequences will to be eternally with Him or without Him does not change that free will choice.
copscott 10 months ago
@copscott "I have free will to choose or reject God" You do huh? So you don't believe the bible? You need to go tear these verses out of your bible: Ephesians 1:3-5, 2:4-10 Romans 8:28-30, 9:10-15, 9:16-19, Rev 13:8 and II Timothy 1:9 Then paste in your own verses where you claim to know god doesn't want robot minions. Before you do this you need to first go read Rev 22:19. Free will is impossible with an omni god and is contradictory to scripture, but believe as you wish cafeteria xian.
Netwriter 10 months ago
I've looked and listened to many of your videos and comments and it is obvious that you are simply responding out of blind anger, hurt, disappointment or something that you feel a God should have fixed, helped, or given comfort, but He did not. Whatever the reason, it really seems such a waste, good luck to you and I hope you find whatever you're looking for.
copscott 10 months ago
@copscott I am not angry. I came to my conclusion and the thesis of this video based on scholarship of the bible and logic. What I am looking for is just one christian who can provide chapter and verse or a logical argument where an omni god and free will can coexist. You have failed to do so. Don't feel bad, no other christian or islamist has been able to do it either.
Netwriter 10 months ago
AND, let's say there is NO GOD as you propose. If that is so, whose fault is it for all the problems, pain, hatred, wars, whatever, it's ours, totally ours, mankind's free will.
Now bring a God back in the picture, just because He could stop or change it does not mean He should. He could stop me from touching you, or raising my right or left, but because of free will, He will not. The consequences of my action may follow, whether He warned me or not, or even if He caused the consequences or not.
copscott 10 months ago
@copscott If there is a god as you propose then all the pain, hatred, wars, whatever is his fault. Claiming over and over that we have free will when the bible says everything was set in stone before the foundations of the earth is a major fail.
Netwriter 10 months ago
You have obviously been very hurt in your past to go to so much effort against God, Christianity, the Bible, etc. Free will has been offered and demonstrated from the beginning with " you may eat of any tree in the garden, except".
Just because God could stop you as an omni.... does not mean he will. If I raise my hand to touch or hit you, God could stop me, but He won't. If I choose to raise my right or left hand to do this, God would know which, but that does not stop my ability to choose.
copscott 10 months ago
@copscott Sorry but I have not been hurt. This video asked you to show chapter and verse where god gives the agency of free will to mankind. I gave you the verses where free will is denied by god, so just claiming it over and over as you do that we have free will doesn't get it done.
Netwriter 10 months ago
My dear friend you have answered yourself. If God has not allow us to make our own choices and do as we plaese-you will be dead already.Can you see that you are speaking of the Most High God and show no reverence whats so ever? You have made a choice to hurt Him and despise His people and you do that continually and yet there is still a breath in your lungs and your heart still bits on average of 70 times in a minute or so, even you haven’t regulated it in years. How do you think that happens?
bozefilm 11 months ago
@bozefilm Free will is impossible with an omnipotent and omniscient god no matter how many time you want to claim otherwise. When you can provide proof that your god is more than just your imaginary invisible friend please let me know. Until then the Most High God is Zeus. Got it?
Netwriter 11 months ago
Joshua 24:15 (King James Version) 15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Thats one I can think of
tricialea2000 1 year ago
@tricialea2000 This doesn't prove free will, it only proves the bible is a contradictory book. To prove free will you need to prove your god is not omnipotent and omniscient. The bible claims in multiple places he is both.
Netwriter 1 year ago 4
The Bible says all who repent and believe the gospel will not perish.Those who refuse to repent and believe the gospel will not be saved.So atheists what's your excuse for not bowing your knee to Jesus Christ,there's plenty of proof that He is who He claimed to be and you are forced to believe the universe just appeared by magic if you deny GOD DID IT,so if you go to Hell for not believing,then who's fault is it?I agree that God chooses,but He commands all to believe in Jesus,so do it and live.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
Romans 5:10 For if while being enemies we
were reconciled to YAHWEH through
the death of His Son, much more,
being reconciled, we shall be saved by
His life;
Ten4Ten4 1 year ago
Free will is found throughout the bible starting with Adam's disobedience in the garden of Eden, continues with Cain's refusal to obey God's command to repent of his error but instead killing his brother who had God's approval, & so on. In the New Testament it can be found in verses such as Mk16:15 “Go into all the world & preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes & is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Man is free to choose life or death.
JoanDArc77 1 year ago
@JoanDArc77 The god of the bible knew A&E would eat the fruit before he created them. They could not do other than what this omni god foreknew they would do. HIs foreknowledge became his will once he created. If the bible is true and the god there is omnipotent and omniscient as it claims then Free Will is impossible.
Netwriter 1 year ago
@Netwriter Nothing in the bible states that, you made it up - and if it was true then God allowed them to be tested beyond their ability to resist the temptation. What the bible DOES say is that if they chose to disobey Him they would surely die, which is exactly what God foreknew and exactly what He told them would happen if they chose that option. They chose not to believe God, chose to disobey, and they indeed ended up dying - all a result of their free will.
JoanDArc77 1 year ago
@JoanDArc77 There is no place in the bible where god granted to man the agency of free will. Free will is impossible with an omni god. The bible states clearly that everything is preordained before the foundations of the earth.
Netwriter 1 year ago
@Netwriter A strawman. Free will is found throughout the bible beginning in Gen2, & very vividly in such instances as Nineveh in which God pronounced their certain destruction but when they CHOSE to repent, God reversed His decree. Or the blessing God promised in Exodus6:6-8 upon the 1st generation of Israeilites to bring them into the Promised Land but instead they died in the desert because of their subsequent disobedience & unbelief - results of their free will. Nothing's written in stone
JoanDArc77 1 year ago
@Netwriter Proverbs 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.
Proverbs 20:24 A man's steps are directed by the LORD. How then can anyone understand his own way?
These are just a couple of verses,in light of these where would you insert man's free will?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN I did not ask you this because I don't disbelieve you,I do,I ask YOU this because I sent my comment to the wrong person,it was suppose to go to Joan,lol God Bless!
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@JoanDArc77 Free will is impossible with an omni god. Everything is just the way a omni god foreknew it would be before the foundations of the world. You can't have a square circle nor free will with an omni god. Just claiming free will is no different than you claiming a circle can be a square.
Netwriter 1 year ago 3
@JoanDArc77---Everything you have stated denies Free Will and affirms Pre-Destiny.
dagoose109 1 year ago
@dagoose109 The Ninevites were destined for destruction in 40 days from the time Jonah preached to them, but they CHOSE to repent causing God to turn from His intention to destroy them. On the other hand, God had predestined to bless the Israelites by bringing them into the Promised Land, but they later CHOSE not to enter and were instead destroyed for their disobedience and unbelief. These accounts directly affirm not only Free Will but also that no one's destiny is ever written in stone.
JoanDArc77 1 year ago
@JoanDArc77---Answer this please; If you so not believe that God is Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Infinite, and Eternal, then exactly who do you think is running this show?
dagoose109 1 year ago
@dagoose109 God is sovereign but He doesn't force a relationship with Himself on anyone. Salvation is by invitation, NOT by decree. God offers it as a gift to everyone and will honor their choice no matter what it might be. Everyone must either choose to remain in Adam & die under his condemnation or turn, accept Christ, and receive eternal life thru Him. If you hold to anything different then YOU are attempting to deny God His sovereignty.
JoanDArc77 1 year ago
@JoanDArc77---Just the opposite. Your Bronze Age conceptualizations and assumptions about God from people who thought the earth was flat is an insult to the Infinite Being. The very idea that every generation since Adam and Eve is guilty by genetic heritage for something they never did is an insane premise as is the idea that Jesus can vicariously take punishment for other people's consequences. On top of this madness, you have a God who punishes souls forever in hell? Gimme a break.
dagoose109 1 year ago
@dagoose109 1st, you should actually read the bible, it will reduce these displays of ignorance. The bible says the world is round and it doesn't teach eternal torture in hell but that the wages of sin is DEATH. 2nd, when Adam transgressed a command which carried a death sentence, we died with him much like if one of your ancestors had climbed aboard the Titanic. He didn't die that day because Christ immediately stepped forward to take the punishment. All those who accept Him will be saved.
JoanDArc77 1 year ago
@JoanDArc77---At best, the Bible is a story of Bronze Age history and immorality. If it truly were the "Word of God" I would become a devout atheist. Do you really take the Bible as the literal inerrant "Word of God"? If so, I hope you will be saved from this delusion.
dagoose109 1 year ago
@dagoose109 From your last few comments alone, it's obvious you've never read it, or if you have you need some classes in elementary reading comprehension. The bible is the only book in the world that contains literally hundred of prophecies written in advance to the actual events, all 100% fulfilled, some of which continue down to our time period. That alone is proof of it's divine, not human origin. The delusions here are all yours.
JoanDArc77 1 year ago
@JoanDArc77---Most Christians read the Bible without ever learning the history behind it, and even if they do it is biased information from Christian sources. The Bible was written after many so-called prophecies already occurred. It's nebulous predictions offer no more proof than street corner psychics and tarot cards. However, some of what the Bible refers to coincides with the Mayan Calendar and 2012, but people have been predicting doomsday for centuries. We shall find out soon!
dagoose109 1 year ago
@dagoose109 I know the history of the bible and nothing you said about post event writings is true, such lies are propagated by those who acknowledge the accuracy of the bible and seek to discredit it by any means possible, but it can't be done. Eg, critics claim Daniel, who gave a 2500 year timeline of all Gentile world kingdoms from his day till Christ's return, must have been written circa 165BC instead of 500BC, but even that can't explain away its accuracy down to the present time. Wake up.
JoanDArc77 1 year ago
@JoanDArc77---Believe whatever you like Sleeping Beauty, but your Prince of Peace ain't coming to kiss you. The fact is there is not a single credible and viable Bible prophecy---can you cite any?
dagoose109 1 year ago
@dagoose I just did little boy but you're obviously too dim-witted & ignorant to recognize it, and I have neither the time or motivation to educate a cretin. I always follow the sage advice about not trying to teach a pig to sing: it's a waste of time and it only annoys the pig.
JoanDArc77 1 year ago
@JoanDArc77---You're quite funny when you get your prophetic panties in a bunch!
dagoose109 1 year ago
I agree we have no free will. So you are opposing God and cannot help yourself for doing so And are serving the Devil because God has chosen you to do so, and will at your death fall into the bottomless pit until the Great White Throne Judgment because you served the preordained will of God, and when your name is not found in the book of Life you will try to argue you did God's will; and will be overruled and cast into the lake of fire alive. Why? Because the door to repentance is open to you
MegaSage007 1 year ago
@MegaSage007 Why doesn't this determinism cause you to question whether your god is not the most evil being ever created in all of literature? How can a thinking person worship a god who created satan, created hell, then creates billions of people to serve satan then burn for eternity in his hell?
With no free will the door of repentance is not an option. Sorry you do not understand how illogical are your words and belief and how evil is the tribal volcano god of the bible.
Netwriter 1 year ago
@Netwriter I have no problem with God Almighty casting you into hellfire and damnation. You are employed in serious rebel'Lion against the Lord whom I love with all my heart, soul, mind and strength and it is clear to me as you speak arrogantly in all your postings in puffed up self conceit of your high minded ignorance that you enjoying mouthing darkness as though it is light. So even though your destiny is Predestined, it is also well deserved for you to be burned up as trash in the furnace
MegaSage007 1 year ago
@MegaSage007 Thanks for the great demonstration of how belief in your evil god totally crushes one's moral compass.
Just keep loving that imaginary friend of yours and selling that snake oil. BTW is that oil you are selling talking snake oil?
I wish you the best, but hope you come and join us in reality one day soon
Netwriter 1 year ago
@MegaSage007 my child please read Luke 6:27, I fear you are straying from the path our great teacher Jesus wants us to follow, don't waste your time trying to reason with these intellectuals they use big words and just confuse us, keep praying for them and following Jesus.. and remember he is sitting next to you reading the comments you type in... so choose your words carefully brother.. may God and Jesus and Holy Ghost all give you their blessings
Triathlete5551 1 year ago
@MegaSage007 So someone creating billions of people just to torture them in the worst possible way is fine, but being that person created to suffer is the creation's fault? Like if a building falls down it's the fault of the building, not the builders. It's immorality and insanity like this, that makes some people glad your God never existed in the first place.
archapmangcmg 1 year ago
I love what you are doing and keep doing it because traditional christianity needs to take their blinders off. You have been answering some serious concerns that many christians have and you are doing Gods work even though you are trying to do the opposite. Thanks!
MrsRosengard 1 year ago
I am a Chrstian that doesnt believe in free will. Thanks for sharing this. They need to know.
MrsRosengard 1 year ago
I'm a Reformed Christian(Calvinist), thus, I stress Gods sovereignty and I do not believe in "Free Will", whatever that loosely defined term means. The Original Christians never did, nor did The Original Protestant Reformers.
TRH1292 1 year ago
God predestines, chooses, & calls but His will for men can be rejected. A simple example from the Old Testament is Adam's choice to disobey God's command about eating the fruit. An example from the New is Luke7:30, "But the Pharisees & the lawyers annulled & rejected & brought to nothing God's purpose concerning themselves by refusing to be baptized by John (the Baptist)." And what other than free will can explain your making of such an ignorant video & making a fool of yourself?
JackMWolfe 1 year ago
@JackMWolfe If the will of the bible god can be rejected by men then he is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. Adam had no choice with omni god, he did as was the will and foreknowledge of the bible god. It seems your bible teaches of an impossible god, one who is omni on one hand and another who is not. You can claim free will but with an omni god it is impossible. Is your god omni?
Netwriter 1 year ago
@Netwriter Ridiculous. Man’s free will doesn’t affect God’s sovereignty in the slightest. 1st, He’s the one who grants man the ability to choose and 2nd, He always retains the right to be the final judge of their choices - they can’t escape the Judgment or the sentence that He will impose. How does it affect God's sovereignty if you choose to be destroyed rather than have a relationship with Him since that's the exact choice He gave to you?
JackMWolfe 1 year ago
@JackMWolfe It is not his sovereignty, it is his will at issue. Nothing can come between the will of and omni god and its coming to pass. If such a will can be thwarted by his creation then he is not omni. Just stating over and over that man has free will doesn't get it done. Such a claim can not be so with an omni god.
"To worship an omnipotent and omniscient god and at the same time profess a belief in free will must be done at the alter of irrationality."
- Gali Yonvadisi
Netwriter 1 year ago
@JackMWolfe that murdering fear mongering nonsensical non existent creatures described in the Old testament? the Guy that kills babies? He reserves the right to judge me? He wants to forgive me my sins? oh and who forgives him his sins?
He is a freaking murderer, not really someone who should judge others,
God is a man made myth
Aanthanur 1 year ago
I approach the bearded man with his sack of goodies over his shoulder. He smiles kindly and says, "There you go kid." .... "What's this", I reply. "Why, it's your gift. I'm calling it free will", the man says, as he kicks the dust off his boots. "But, I didn't ask for this" "True, but you'll like it", he says. "You can choose now". Somewhat bewildered I look up at him... "Let me see if I've got this... You've given me the gift of free will but I don't get to choose if I want the gift or not?"
wonkothemagicelf 1 year ago 9
Whether or not mankind actually has free will is not asking (or saying) the same thing as whether or not some people BELIEVE they have free will. I take issue with the god-believer who states that, "god gave us free will". It may well be true that mankind HAS free will, but that it was "given", is a paradox. In other words, if a god "gave me" free will, then that "gift" is one that I had no choice about. We can further imagine the "gift" in the following way...
wonkothemagicelf 1 year ago 12
Does Jesus said directly that he is God and worship him anywhere in the bible unequivocally, regardless me and father are one. did he say He is God and worship him?
jihadvv 1 year ago
lol @ 2:07 after "calleth" ;)
MangekyouRook 1 year ago
When I let a thief steal from the register and run out the store without stopping him, I'm an asshole.
When God let's a thief steal from the register and run out the store, without stopping him, I'm still the asshole, apparently.
Jarut195 1 year ago 2
i got challenge for u: when jesus comes or if (in your csse) how bout u try challengeing him i bet u would b suprised
DFLOCO93 1 year ago
@DFLOCO93 Since everything is predestined, as this video reveals, I doubt I would be as surprised as those who wasted most of their lives, much of their money, time and energy on their christian religion and end up saying Lord Lord and then being shoved onto the down elevator.
Netwriter 1 year ago 4
"Everything" is nowhere in those verses you referenced.
PrinceWalter 1 year ago
@Netwriter Gee Gary, you really do believe in the Bible and in God but being absolutely negative about everything he does, you can't find anything positive about creation at all. Yet, were someone to pull out a gun to kill you, you would say "Please don't kill me. I want to live." So your theology is hypocritical. You want to live but hate the giver of life.
MegaSage007 1 year ago
@MegaSage007 The more we communicate the more it is evident that you are unable to identify any nuance in my words or understand what I am going here. As with you, most christians don't know squat about their own religion or bible. I use their book to straighten them out.
I value my life highly. It is the only one I get for sure. There is nothing hypocritical about that at all. This life has little value to those who believe in a never never land after they die. A death cult for sure.
Netwriter 1 year ago
@Netwriter I never said it was hypocritical for you to value your life. I said the fact you do value it, should offer itself up as proof to you that your theology against God is wrong, since you should appreciate his giving you the life you value so much.
MegaSage007 1 year ago
@MegaSage007 I have it on good sources that my life was given me by my parents, not some bumbling god of the bronze age
What proof do you have that your imaginary god exist, let alone created anything.
NetwriterUnplugged 1 year ago
@DFLOCO93 I have a challenge for you. Learn to speak English and type it properly so you don't end up looking like a complete dumbass.
stewie7griffin 1 year ago
@DFLOCO93 what a shitty reason to believe in jeebus. you're treating your religion like an insurance policy. are you not a true believer, loco? just going through the motions so you can get into heaven?
D3L1R10US 1 year ago
The Bible God actually reserves the right to suspend free will, and does so n the bible on a number of occasions.
Which invalidates any free will argument Christians may have towards everything being man's fault.
TheTruePooka 1 year ago
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
I love that you are calm and patient when dealing with a particularly stubborn crowd. I became atheist about four years ago, and now recently have taken mindfulness based meditation classes at my college(with a heavy influence from positive psych).These classes have shown me how impatient and stubborn I'm. I am starting to find peace knowing that there will always be willful ignorance and misguided people(whom I believe do try their best). I still admire your brave efforts to educate the masses
greenfan033 1 year ago
Who says there has to be free will. God made you so you can go to hell, and you'll go to hell! he's merciful like that...
del3226 1 year ago
Oh, they'll spout James 1:13-15 and John 9 and a few other verses saying that man is wicked and "lusteth after wickedness continually" and such. And they'll fracture, if not break, the dictionary definitions of various word meanings to justify their views (Calvinism and so forth), but they can, indeed, use verses that say man has a choice... for man always chooses wickedness. If that's circular, they can't see it.
RyuDarragh 1 year ago
the more I watch your videos, the less I feel the urge to go confront a christian on his beleifs. very enlightening.
bongchampion 1 year ago
I just had the entire "free will" conversation with my friend. She was all free will this free will that, and then I said "right, so God created free will knowing that 85% of us would reject him" and she goes "yeah", so then "God must have intentionally created 85% of us whom he will punish for something out of our control? Because he made FW and knew the consequences and WANTED the consequences" and I got the same "God just wants us all to love him" response. So tiring
Craigipedia 1 year ago
@Craigipedia
You did it all wrong. What you do is, you say: "God must have intentionally created 85% of us whom he will punish for something out of our control? Because he made FW and knew the consequences and WANTED the consequences"
And THEN laugh at her.
Learn to play. D:
Iced1992 1 year ago
Here's "free-will" for ya: a person who truly wishes they were never born and doesn't want to live and never wanted to live. Yet a God that already seems to have known that makes that person anyway--even knowing they will later commit suicide....
JeremeK 1 year ago
If a pious man gets murdered isn't that taking away his freewill? I never understood the Christian mindset regarding freewill.
Celticking36 1 year ago 2
@Celticking36 Very true. I have heard the example given that god does not intervene because of free will. So when a 10 year old girl is being raped and murdered by a pedophile serial killer, with god right there watching, being omnipresent, the free will of the murderer is more important to the bible god than the free will of the little girl who only wants to live. Her free will is of no importance. It is almost like the god of the bible enables evil doesn't it?
Netwriter 1 year ago
@Netwriter Or he is just a figment of ones imagination....
Celticking36 1 year ago
@Celticking36 Exactly
Netwriter 1 year ago
@Netwriter, if I stood by and watched a 10 year-old girl being raped by a pedophile serial killer and did nothing to try and stop it, I would be consider the scum of the earth. However, when God does nothing to try and stop it, people make all kind of crazy ass excuses for him. That has never made sense to me.
zyrover 1 year ago 7
@Netwriter Seems like if God truly loved us he would abolish all things which cause suffering in our lives. Any parent who loved their child would save their child from suffering if possible... so unless God isn't all powerful, enabling our suffering is probably the SOFTEST way to put it. I'd prefer to say he is the author of evil and suffering, since by being omniscient he has doomed us to whatever fate we befall. The creator is at fault for its creation's flaws. Not the creation.
boomkablamo 1 year ago
@Netwriter God created evil to test us by it so we could learn to overcome evil with good and by suffering wickedness from evildoers we learn sympathy for others who do, & enter into a deeper concern for them. Only the little girl's body is dead when the the serial rapist/murderer is finished with her. Her spirit is alive & is able to be housed in her flesh again when God Almighty is ready, just as you will be housed again in your body either in the 1st or 2nd Resurrection. Take your choice
MegaSage007 1 year ago
@MegaSage007 You claim not to believe in free will then claim god is testing us. Please use some critical thinking skills, if you have them. With an omni god who knew before creatiing everything to the smallest detail would not need to test anyone as he would already know the result, the result was decided by god before the foundations of the creation.
You have no proof there is a soul/spirit or that your god is anything more than your imaginary invisible friend. Stop spouting BS.
Netwriter 1 year ago
@Netwriter God doesn't test us as a school teacher or the the local DMV looking to find out what he already knows. When he speaks of testing us, its so we can grow through the ordeal and learn to overcome evil with good. I have all of the proof I will ever need there is a soul/spirit in me. Its your job to build your own faith between you and God or continue to neglect it to your own hurt and those you are leading like a pied piper into blackness of darkness forever.
MegaSage007 1 year ago
@MegaSage007 I see you have moved up to selling talking snake oil instead of the usual cup of bile.
Before you were born, were you not in a state of blackness? How miserable was it for you for the ages in that state? You were on the other side, tell us about it.
While on the other side was there a golden city, with millions of people kissing the @ss of the Great OZ? No? Then why do you believe in gold streets, big mansions, and you kissing the @ss of the Great OZ for eternity now?
Netwriter 1 year ago
One thing I know for sure: parts of the Sermon on the Mount were deliberately geared towards making good powerless against evil. If this particular god granted free will, "love thy enemies" and "turn the other cheek" wouldn't have been written. And ultimately, I deconverted for this very reason.
bearpaw72 1 year ago
If one REALLY took the bible literally..
Doesn't the mythology teach that the devil tempts us left and right, but theres few of us who are immuned by it because he gave special few a magical power called grace..
But christians pretty much say "devil tempts you, temptation will seize if you accept christ" Yep, I guess unbiblical.
thefakeyeti 1 year ago
Free will is a recurring pathetic excuse of all evil but what annoys me personally, most of all, is that they believe that Bible verses are evidence for their cause.
MoveOrder 1 year ago
Some sects of Christianity don't really believe in free will but I don't have common that is.
sweatytoothmadman 1 year ago
ALLAH
minnesotavikingsnfl 1 year ago
i guess they'll say: "all the verses you offer, you can choose to follow them or not"
ultimately we don't really have the freewill to believe or not believe according to the bible... it isn't freewill if you hold a gun to someones head and say "love me" then shoot them if they don't, especially if it's an invisible gun! what they really mean i guess, is there's really only freewill during this life, not the next, god chooses that
IzzyBunneh 1 year ago 2
This time the fuckers'll just whine about you 'cherry-picking' verses and using them 'out of context' like they always do.
megagrey 1 year ago
Netwriter, I love your videos. Please keep up the great work!
cosmos11 1 year ago 3
Heh. I knew a guy who thought being assigned a fate and by necessary implication a belief didn't equal predestination. He was epically funny.
Wow. 4-5 hours a day.
MrKrov 1 year ago
the strangest thing is I don't think that the idea of Christianity being Mono Theistiic is even definate. It's shown that we're supposed to obey any Angel of the Lord that appears to us, so doesn't that mean that they are also 'gods' to us?
scionlightning 1 year ago
Perfectly done/said Netwriter!!! ★★★★★
Katalyzt
Katalyzt 1 year ago
P.S.
Hey Netwriter, here is another example of a lack of freewill. Jonah was commanded to go to Nineveh, but Jonah clearly did not want to go, and chartered a boat to Tarshish(different direction) instead. But instead of respecting Jonahs wishes/choice/freewill the god character stops him at sea, and traps him in a big fish for three days and three nights(Jonah 1:1-17). Whereby forcing Jonah (against his will which is later confirmed.(Jonah 4:1-2)) to go to the city of Nineveh.
Katalyzt
Katalyzt 1 year ago 3
Well damn, you already took away all their defenses !!!
paganbirdkeeper666 1 year ago
I'd say another set of verses against free will is in Exodus when God is hardening Pharoahs heart. I suspect tha tthe storyteller did not believe that pharoah or anyone else had free will.
Brianswers 1 year ago
The main problem I see with this is that often times theists will openly admit that even if everything in their respective scripture were to be proven to be absolutely an irrevocably wrong they would still believe it to be the absolute truth, their only justification being a bastardized version of Pascal's Wager or Descartes meditations. I personally do not understand why they are so willfully stupid as no traditional reasons seem to apply to most modern theists eg apathy, fear, ignorance.
Drathora 1 year ago
why delete circular logic comments? why not allow free speech instead of deleting things like creationists would
princeofexcess 1 year ago
@princeofexcess To keep them on point. I am asking them to prove that their claim of free will is biblically based. Bald assertions and circular reasoning do not do that. I have already heard all those arguments. They litter the comments sections of most of my other videos. It is also part of the challenge, prove it with the bible they claim to believe, not half baked apologetics, word games and bald assertions.
Netwriter 1 year ago 4
@Netwriter you could just let them be. Christians must first know what circular logic is before they can stop using it. It takes the same skill to make a logical argument as it does to judge if an argument is logical. Christians that are making circular arguments are not helping their cause and could learn something from other people responding and showing them how their argument is circular (and why it doesnt prove anything). Retards will make retarded comments its not their fault
princeofexcess 1 year ago
@princeofexcess I have produced a video called "Debate 101 for Christians and Muslims". If you check my video comments sections you will find that I am as patient and instructive as any non christian on Youtube. Do they learn from such efforts?, no!
As Hugh Laurie said "If you could reason with christians, there would be no christians." or something very close to that.
Netwriter 1 year ago
@Netwriter I once was a christian, and so were you. There are people that are christians and do get convinced. It is usually that you will never see them admit to you that they lost the debate but often it is because of peoples pride. I realize that even if i dont change my mind during a debate i will l8ter think about the subject and often alter my views.
princeofexcess 1 year ago
@princeofexcess I am aware of this. Ever once in a while I receive a private message from someone telling me that my videos got them to thinking and now they are moving away from their theistic belief and learning to think critically. That is what keeps me going responding to comments some 4 to 5 hours a day and making videos when the inspiration comes to me.
Netwriter 1 year ago 2
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Netwriter I simply support the idea of freedom of expression. I dont like when creationists delete my comment because it is "inappropriate" and i dont think they will enjoy it either if you delete their comments because they are "irrational". Im sure they dont even know what it means. Just like i still have no clue what "inappropriate" is in their mindset. Whoever disagrees with them lol. Yet I go with the motto "freedom of speech for everyone even for douchebags!"
princeofexcess 1 year ago 2
@princeofexcess I support that ideal also, but for the purposes of this teaching effort I am not going to allow folks to take the subject off on multiple tangents. I have already rejected a video response from Nephtali1981 about creationism. This of course is what the fundamentalist want to do, change the subject when faced with a truth matter regarding their superstition. Feel free to mirror this video on your channel. Allow anyone to post anything they like.
Netwriter 1 year ago
@Netwriter you have spend much more time making videos on youtube then i have and are probably right. It would create a lot of tangents and might not work as well with your video. Hopefully in the future you will not have the need to censor comment section.
Im glad that you are making those videos. Hopefully you have new ones out soon
princeofexcess 1 year ago
@princeofexcess
It sounds like he want's to keep it ON TOPIC..
If someone want's to debate on another topic, he has multiple videos :D
Sometimes it is good to keep it on topic :)
thefakeyeti 1 year ago
@Netwriter and they will never learn unless somebody shows them how they are wrong and how their argument is flawed. If they knew how its flawed they wouldnt believe in God. Noone believes in something that they think is wrong
princeofexcess 1 year ago 2
@princeofexcess I have produced over 60 videos revealing the logical fallacies, absurdities and short comings of religious claims. I have shown them in pin point precision with crystallin logic the errors of their arguments, their belief and their flawed old book. I have not given up, but in general find the vast majority brain damaged to the point that they want to believe more than they want the truth. Truth and logic a blocked by their faith.
Netwriter 1 year ago 4
@Netwriter plus, if you didn't delete such comments, they would walk away thinking it's a valid argument. But you should also notify them before deleting the comment, otherwise they will never hear anything back, and assume the comment remains (unless they come back later to check if it's still there, but I doubt most would).
bu1ckgnx 1 year ago
Yet another excellent video.
exacerbatedtaboo 1 year ago
That Romans 9:10-15 bit is especially disturbing.
It doesn't say that unborn children who die without accepting Jesus go to Heaven or that children who cannot understand go to Heaven, it acknowledges them yet goes right to saying that it's all about who "calleth" or believe... in other words, God don't care if your unborn kid whom he chose to have aborted didn't do anything, they suffer forever?
sonic8005 1 year ago 2
@sonic8005 Definitely. All mankind suffers because of Adam and Eve, correct? Why wouldn't you suffer for your parents if you died at birth? Then again, God had laid that path and there was nothing you could do to change it. Therefor, God predestines kids to hell for their parents' deeds, and those deeds were predestined to them by God in the first place, and so on. God loves watching people burn for eternity. Why else would he predestine people to hell?
MonkeyBallZ214 1 year ago 3
I forget the exact verse, but there is one talking about how Pharaoh was actually planning on letting the jews go, but "God hardened his heart" and so Pharaoh changed his mind, which of course led to the wrath of god and many people (children especially) dying.
Rantandreason 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Netwrite, how about Deuteronomy 28. Read the entire chapter, it clearly describes the choices and consequences we have as humans. We can choose to obey the lord and it describes the blessing of it, or to disobey as you, and the consequences of it. I know, I know.. you will say, and get angry at me posting this, however, you asked and here it is. God Bless Tali
Nephtali1981 1 year ago
@Nephtali1981
There is no need to get angry. I myself put no stock in a book obviously written by men in order to control the public.
That is m 2 cents on the entire matter.
lordtalon69 1 year ago 2
@Nephtali1981 Which verses in that chapter grants us free will. Are you making the claim that the verses I presented in the video that clearly reveal that everything is predestined from before the creation of the world are false? You need to make a better case than this attempt to be taken seriously. I am not the least bit angry just disappointed by your weak effort to make your case for free will.
Netwriter 1 year ago 7
@Nephtali1981 Let's assume that you are correct. Do you realize then that you are showing more examples of how the bible contradicts itself? If Netwriter or you are correct, the bible loses. If Netwriter is correct, then you have no freewill and your life is meaningless. No more than a program on a computer. Only doing what you're programed. If you are correct, then the bible contradicts itself and can not be the true word of God, unless God is scatter brained and forgets what he says earlier.
MonkeyBallZ214 1 year ago 4
@Nephtali1981 So free-will means you must do right so you won't be punished for choosing to do something you wanted to do wrong? So if you choose right you're rewarded yet if you choose wrong you're punished. How is that free-will when you're told what you need to do? How is it free-will when you must do this or else? How is giving someone an ultimatum free-will?
JeremeK 1 year ago
Good one, netwriter. Yes, the bible has MANY direct and indirect statements making it clear that everything is predestined, i.e., no free will.
GetMeThere1 1 year ago 7
@GetMeThere1 hey could you give me the names and chapters of the versus, I'm starting to research this stuff some more and I could use some help.
jamesmatthews89 1 year ago