Autism: What will happen to our kids?

[yingany]

My son has just been diagnosed high on the ASD. Thank you so much for posting this information. I have been reading a lot lately on the prognosis of ASD. Indeed it is sobering to imagine that my child IS permanently disabled. Funny, if he had been born blind, a conspicuous disability, I think I would have readily accepted the permanence of the diagnosis, and not had the self-blame that many parents with an asd or aspergers share, afterall our children look "normal" and watching them we imagine

[mommamarnie]

i am a adult with aspergers married two kids one on the spectrum one just fine i have lots if problums still socialy and working but i am married and with some guidenes i do well taking care of my home when not to tierd to foccus on what i need to do or get overwlmed because house is to messy for me to focus

[justmeamara]

Seeing all of your videos is making me want to be a doctor more and more to find a cure.

[DudeSoWin]

@justmeamara there is no cure. It is who you are. You are an entirely different subspecies of humanity, a different social race.

[justmeamara]

@DudeSoWin THATS SUTCH A MEAN THING TO SAY!!!!!!! just because they have a disabillaty DOSEN'T mean they are a sub-spices! U ARE thae kind of CARELESS ppl in the world who dont even know what they go thro. U dont even think about it.

[justmeamara]

@DudeSoWin AND BTW i dont have autism. so idk what u mean my me.

[paulwady]

The reason that 11% appeared to 'lose' an autism diagnosis was exclusively their learning of social & relating skills. You spend your life in the neurotypical world, learning every day how to think, feel or respond to the people around you. With the various therapies (life-coaches) you learn to do neurotypical impressions so well, you end up in a secure daily scenario of job/home/relationships that you fake it perfectly.

No harm in that, eh? Take it from me. x

[DudeSoWin]

@paulwady more like understand why typical people fake things.

[returnoftheramble3]

They will die. We will be forced together, us "sinners" and them,a nd they will become absolute garbage.

[ascend2luv]

My friend, I am a parent to two autistic children one High functioner and one non-verbal, I dont fear for their future I just enjoy them and love them, life offers hope there is no way anyone could predict the future of anyone NT or ASD. Dont listen to studies, as I believe they often give you the worst possible outcome and it can rob a parent of hope. I know that the world is going to change soon, indeed the change is happening now. Just dont stop believing in hope and love. Namaste

[meLLyisfLy]

Hi " ascend2luv". My name is Melaine. i saw your comment saying that you have two autisitic children. well theres a cure. and the cure is kangen water. and please if you want to know more information please reply back.

[gamiezion]

dont talk shit, autism cant be cured, end of story

especially not by water :S

[marlyonama]

Well scientists found out it might be possible to get rid of the PDD with adult stem cell therapy.

It's probably not approved to treat this condition yet in America since the ban on stem cells has bean lifted recently. They are now continuing research from where they left off years ago.

[gamiezion]

adult stem cells? as opposed too? there only are stem cells, it doesnt matter who or where theyre from, as long as their human theyre the same

at any rate, it cant cure autism, considering the brain looks the way it should in terms of cells being where they should be

[BeyondDr3ams]

Hyperbaric Oxygen Treatment

[antiautism]

They grow up to be serial killers.  It's scientifically proven by J Arturo Silva that autism is the source of serial killers.

[Smileychick2010]

fuck you asshole i will kick your ass if i ever hear that shit again! they cant help it and fuck whoever u heard that from these are sick people and u need to fuck off! you hear me back the fuck off!!!!! GO AWAY!!!! VAMOOSH BITCH!!!

[cookingmom77]

How dare you judge people with autism..I think your sick and needs help from humane society. I hope "Karma" will get you soon!

[gamiezion]

you are 1 fucked up piece of shit, people with autism are oftenly more caring than all non autistics put together

[ElectricShark]

J. Arturo Silva made a lot of baseless claims about people with autism.

You should actually do some research before you make such blanket statements yourself, sir.

J. Arturo Silva never officially diagnosed the individuals and a lot of those serial killers were NEVER diagnosed with autism.

[ballhog145]

@antiautism So the fact that i have autism means i'm going to be a serial killer?

[gingerwoman555]

This is a very upsetting video to watch. But answers the question that has been uppermost in my mind. So thank you for that.

[XSaenen]

Losing the diagnosis doesn't necessarily mean being cured. People with Asperger's Syndrome are just very good at camouflaging it.

I was diagnosed 14 years ago, at the age of 16. At first no-one knew how to deal with it (no help later on either), and my social problems increased as I turned 18. 2 years ago I lost the diagnosis. I still have AS tho, I just use a lot of tricks to hide it. I could go into detail when asked, but the 255 character limit prevents me from doing that right now.

[justme10111]

I am on dissablity and have aspergers. What can I look foward to in terms of living conditions in the future. I live at home with my parents but my mother is on oxygen and I worry about my future when they are gone.

What can I expect, what recorces are out there to help me in life. I cant hold a job , nore function at collage. What will happen?

[gingerwoman555]

justme my Dad's Aspergers and was a law professor. As you can see by watching this video Aspergers people have a better chance that Austistics. This is very upsetting to me since my son 3 yrs old only has 3 words.

[rachael596]

this video just made me incredaibly sad i have spent the entire life of both my son's wondering what will happen to them... when i am gone i do not worry as long as im able to be there but what happens next... i know it's never going away but i know i will eventually be unable to do what i do now for them .... so in turn this video did make me sad =(

[ebaymamaqueen]

usually as you age the aspergers calms down and you can function quite a bit. you can hold a job, but i married someone who was similar to me. we are both very intelligent and highly educated, but have no desire to socialize, etc. i have one friend that i occassionally talk to. hubbie is the same way. we have a house, kids, etc. just like everyone else. we have our issues, but we just don't like to be around people. it will get better don't worry too much. your a good dad!

[jjazman1234]

I just wanted to point out one thing. You said that the average age of "follow-up" on these people was early 20's. What percentage of average (so called "normal") kids in their early 20's are not living at home with their parents or not working. I would say that over 50% (that is an educated guess) of people under 25 either live at home or don't work, so it's not much different from the aspergers kids. Just an observation.

[KimberlyMahurin]

I agree with this. Also according to tony attwood (sp?) people with aspergers are younger than the actual age. So a aspie in early 20's is still considered a teenager. They may finally be ready to hold jobs and move out around the 30's. Just takes more time.

[candistyx]

@jjazman1234 tru dat

[ABAisSCIENCE]

"Recovered" or "Indistinguishable" people are proof of behavior modification as almost all the stories of GFCF diets and biomedical treatment are also doing behavior modification and speech therapy. This is because parents choose eclectic treatments. The proven intervention is behavior modification called ABA as there are over 600 research articles proving ABA as significantly impacting autism.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Unfortunately, probably all the kids in the study did not receive an intervention that is very good & works 2 help them succeed in life.

Some like to say, "under the guise of 'it's for his/her own good'" as if they know anything about this intervention.

But 4 some of the parents who do this intervention their child is completely indistinguishable & the child is successful in both scenarios per the above video & more: jobs, relationships, competence, education, marriage, wit, & confidence.

[MzTruthSeerUK]

whitey you appear to have strong artistic traits you are gentle and caring. Your son is very much like you (those pesky genes!) dont worry about Hunter he will adapt better than you will hes probably worrying about you too, just listen with your heart and mind you will understand him so much more. Love is the answer open yourself up to him, please you will pleasantly suprised. Believe in him. Relax meditate around him he picks your anxiety up. Peace x

[MzTruthSeerUK]

Our children are better equipped to deal with what is coming than us. You will soon with your own eyes the resourcefulness and strength that these children possess. I would like to put the questin the other way round and have the kids post "what will we do with our parents in the future?" lol - have faith in your son love him hes all you got if you dont believe in him who else will? or what will happen to NT society? things r changing - good luck!

[ABAisSCIENCE]

My vote is for logic. I chose to teach individuals that which will help them avoid future abuse. To speak in hypothetical abuse of the treatment when the parents control the choice is silly as that is the parents job and I suspect they avoid abuse for their children. I know as an uncle I did. Yet Spydyee would ask, "Did you ask your nephew if he wanted to verbally communicate?" as if I was suppose to let him not learn to talk rather than be in honors third grade.

[nmste]

parents trusted doctors,, I won't do that again

[MzTruthSeerUK]

having witnessed ABA "teaching" - do you teach with love? Firstly respect the childs personality Dont force them to go against their nature. That is spirtual genocide. These children need love and guidance not forced to perform tasks like trained chimp. I saw the pain this ABA caused my son, hes made better progress by cleansing his system. There may be positive aspects to ABA however this varys with the person who is teaching it is too often abused under the guise of its for his own good!

[MzTruthSeerUK]

ABA spydee has a point your belief in ABA is infectious and it sounds like a miracle to parents who are desparately trying to understand and help their child be "normal" Problem autism is genetic so parents only really need to look to themselves. Parents are twisted into hating the autism in their children that comes from their own genes, how screwed is a system that does that? Your zealous fervour actually scares me, u truley do believe in this, i wouldnt let u near my son - no offence!

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Many disabled people are abused or mistreated due to the people who care for them being evil or not knowing how to treat them. If you teach them to communicate that is not enough to ensure their safety, but if they are indistinguishable they have a better chance. MORE

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Anyone can be mistreated. Something is causing children to sit longer in chairs in elementary school & it is likely contingencies in the environment. We all change due to contingencies, but they can either be changes for good or for bad.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Do we think schooling is bad if contingencies in school cause them to sit longer? How about if teachers don't know how to manage classrooms do be blame the teachers for not understanding behavioral principles and thus creating more criminal behaviors within classrooms?

[MzTruthSeerUK]

unfortunatley alot of this abuse is carried out under the guise of - "its for his/her own good! Cant you see the danger in this belief if people believe they are helping and are given full control over another - its inhuman!" Anyone can be mistreated power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely!

[drmdk]

Need more information about:

- how the diagnosis of Autism made

- what therapies tried

Was the study "Evidence Bases Study"

otherwise it a opinion not fact.

Therapy is only a good as the therapist and

family. At least it a good start.

DrMDK

[ABAisSCIENCE]

I think Spydyee & Autumngirl8967 both love their children. Respect alone will not help autistic individuals when they are young learn optimally. Either way Spydyee needs to respect individuals when she talks to them, but that might be hard for her. In her video "Forget Diagnosis" she poses parents not viewing their children properly (likely tied to her view on ABA) as the cause of their failure to learn. Mind you she choses Michael Jackson (we all know his history with children) to represent it.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Yet there is truth in the video "Forget Diagnosis" as parents who turn to ABA do "teach the child" & "give them tools" & through procedures the parents learn that conditioning their child is optimal when you have high expectations, but high expectations get you no where with autism without knowing the mechanism that causes learning. So keep thinking Spydyee & maybe you'll understand me, but you would have to apologize to Autumngirl8967 for me to understand you.

[Spydyee]

I didn't write that it was written by of all things a behaviorist! That is the irony of it.

[Spydyee]

One thing about that song though, regardless of the person that wrote it or performed it, it says that the only way to make a change in the world is to start with the man in the mirror.

[Spydyee]

I don't ask people to respect me just because I exist and I do not give respect just because you exist. Respect you must earn. If you don't respect me big deal. If I don't respect you who cares. respect is like any other personal opinion; everybody has one and most of them stink just like a certain body orifice that we all have also!

[ABAisSCIENCE]

In any case, Spydyee thinks anyone who tries ABA on a child has no love for them. This is silly. What I believe is that Spydyee loves her children and autumngirl8967 loves her children. Perhaps Spydyee needs to talk with respect towards people if she desires them to do the same.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Now Spydyee can say there is a meaning to whether you say a person with autism or an autistic person. She thinks it is related to whether you value the person properly, but actually it is based on contingencies when you use the words. Many people who had children who were mentally handicapped used the words mentally retarded, but that is because it was acceptable back then. When contingencies change society changes.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

autumngirl8967, you can rest easy as Spydyee does TEACCH on her children & so she doesn't really accept them as they are either. You see she merely wants to insult people by saying the word "cure" as if it is bad, but even if it is no person with autism has been cured & so it is hypothetical.

Now she might quote others who talk about brain differences, but her quotes are about brain plasticity and making synaps connections to which I say ROCK ON BEHAVIORISM.

[saillinz]

I'm an ABA counselor for a school in New England devoted to help children with autism spectrum disorders and I'm happy to say the ONLY method we use in ABA is positive reinforcement! No aversives have ever been used here in our ABA therapy!

[Spydyee]

Please explain to me what gives you the right to decide what behaviors that child needs to stop doing? The only ABA person that ever came within a thousand feet of my child wanted to stop his light switch flipping as her first task. You see ABAisSCIENCE I was once uneducated enough to explore ABA too. When she said that we would "target" that behavior I "targeted" her for immediate removal from my home. I learned quickly VERY VERY quickly.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Well, you see you think behaviorists are rude to parents and yet you are rude to people who chose ABA for their child. Very similar. Parents chose behaviors to teach based on behaviors not being learned if they are smart and behaviors to reduce if they are not quite as smart, but either way they chose targets to benefit the child in their development.

[Spydyee]

I never called them rude. I called them callous and "holier-than thou" because they think they know what is best for everyone because their way is the only right way.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

So you think parents who want to teach their children skills are "callous." If kids are not learning then people should want to do something for them such that they learn. This is the response of one who loves their children. Probably why you turned to TEACCH.

[Spydyee]

Not parents, just the ABA sales people that convince uneducated parents that are still in the grieving state of finding out that the child they thought they had is not the child that they actually have on a treatment that adult autistics describe as abusive.

[Spydyee]

Not parents, just the ABA sales people that pitch this "cure" to uneducated parents and the behaviorists that have this idea that there is only one right way to do anything and everyone has to conform.

[Spydyee]

"We are the ABA Scientists. You will be assimilated. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be annihilated. Resistance is futile."

[Bopkasen]

Ali ABA Scientist lol sorry couldn't resist.

[MelsieH67]

@ABAisSCIENCE It's been a while since I wrote about this...I don't even know how long! I got a notification that there was a response...must be WAY far down on the page, but wanted to say, we continue with DTT (subset of ABA, similar to TEACHH) and my son is SO happy. Happy, sunny boy. He can make us understand him now. He is so overjoyed from this...it is so worth it to see him happy. He has wanted us to understand him. He will always be autistic just as he will always have blue eyes.

[MelsieH67]

@MelsieH67 ...That DOESN'T mean it's acceptable to, say, hurt himself or eat things that are unhealthy for him (pencil shavings, etc.) any more than it would be okay for an NT child to, say, hit others. Autistic people do grow & mature, like anyone else...and should be expected to...but because traditional teaching may not be as understandable, there's ABA. Nothing bad about that, sorry.

[MelsieH67]

@MelsieH67 So I agree with your sentiments and I fully understand you (ABAisSCIENCE)...my son can tell us things he never could before, show us his love and accept ours...and is more able to learn now...he is GREAT with math. We are so happy...and we feel he has more of a future. ABA IS a great teaching method.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Spydyee, you don't have to run to Christschool, you're a big boy and you can come back to the original video if you want to make a point. Again ABA is not Lovaas the one is a science and the other is a man. Figure it out or ignore truth, but ABA is not defined by aversives.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Spydyee, I do what I think helps my nephews with autism & I love them. You should do what you think works if your child needs help & that means you should look to scientifically proven methods, but understand them first. But be proud of who you are. I know I'm proud of my nephews. Also thank you for admitting the procedures and principles work. They sure do & without aversives too.

[Spydyee]

They work because they are torturous just like the tactics used at Guantanamo or Abu Gahrib. If you are into torture then hey go for it. Torture away but personally I am going to continue to do what my foundation does every day and that is warn parents to run in the opposite direction from ABA at all costs.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

You must be speaking to a brick wall, because your not reading what I write & commenting on that. Treatments ID'd by ABA work because ABA techniques in the research show the treatment to have usefulness. Floortime was finally proven by a research article by Ingersoll, et. al. (2005) when ABA principles where used to conduct the research. Again do you know what ABA is?

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Spydyee, I think it is great that you are confident in who you are. Be who you are, but if your child needs help look to science for concepts that are proven rather than leaving it to chance. Good luck to your child and rock on buddy.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Spydyee, I am so glad you dislike aversives. We all do & I hope ABA leaves that to the past as ABA is not = to aversives, but certainly it seems so to many. Behaviorists study procedures to see if stims can be used to motivate individuals with autism & what the effect on learning & stimming are. We all stim, but the importance is how it affects quality of life if it is blocking learning. Behaviorists have shown stimming is a tool that can be used to learn without increasing stimming.

[Spydyee]

The quality of life thing is a perspective placed by society. My seven year old thinks he is in heaven when he is flipping light switches so his "quality of life" is diminished when he isn't from his perspective. When he is my "quality of life " is diminished because of my visual sensitivities.

[Spydyee]

What we have to do is balance his quality of life with my quality of life and that means he gets a flashlight and is in hog heaven and I get either no light or stable lighting and I am in hog heaven. That is accepting his need to turn lights on and off and my need for him not to turn MY lights on and off.

[Spydyee]

What we have to do is balance his quality of life with my quality of life and that means he gets a flashlight and is in hog heaven and I get either no light or stable lighting and I am in hog heaven. That is accepting his need to turn lights on and off and my need for him not to turn MY lights on and off.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Everybody plays with their children or allows things they dislike for another's benefit, but no one can state what benefit is by what someone turns towards. That shows motivation & interest. Quality of life is a little different then that. My nephew couldn't talk, but once he could he talked about wanting friends. He didn't exhibit behaviors to get his wishes; he had no conditioning to do those behaviors.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

You see your child does things because he past conditioning has lead him to it. but what will make for optimal quality of life is far more difficult to prove by stating let him control everything. By that logic a child who is in diapers must love others changing him, but I don't assume such a thing. I assume failure to learn.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Furthermore, society is changing to help support those with differences in comparison to the past, but the optimal procedures for that are only identified by applying science to the procedures. This is the work of Positive Behavior Support (PBS) and many other scientific based procedures that come from ABA just like PBS did. Or you could leave it up to the chance of societies direction.

[Spydyee]

Positive behavioral support is not changing society it is changing the individual. It amazes me when you say society is changing but in the very next sentence you revert to talking about changing the individual to meet society's expectations. The two concepts are incompatible. You either change society to accept the individual or you change the individual to act the way society wants them to act you cannot do both.

[Spydyee]

Only a behaviorist could confuse one for the other.

[Spydyee]

You can call me your local anti-societal Aspie Geek existentialist that understands the concept that life and death are out of our control but how we live the rest of our life is all in our own perception of that life and that when we conform to societal norms that are foreign to us we are sacrificing our God- Given Agency to define who we are.

[Spydyee]

I am Autistic and proud of it. I have four children diagnosed on the spectrum and they are not broken and do not require behavior modification. We allow them to "stim" and behave the way the feels good to them. We accept them just the way they are and by doing so we have happy emotionally healthy kids. I wouldn't trade that for anything including getting Josh to stop flipping light switches (which drives my visual sensitivities nuts).

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Spydyee do you understand ABA at all? Change is evoked by stimuli from a society or the environment. Do you think that ABA is saying people with autism are helped by society doing nothing at all? What stimulus change would you get with that logic? The only way to change anything is to start with yourself. Perhaps you should think twice before you assume you are an island. Have you ever heard it takes 2 to tango?

[Spydyee]

why do you feel the need to change Autistic people? What is so bad about us just the way we are?

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Spydyee keep ranting with no knowledge I'm sure it works at your house. However, if your child can read & write & not talk there are 2 things you could do. Change yourself in ways that evoke your child speaking (like a good behaviorist) or try Lovaas' 2nd institution a read/write program of instruction for those who fail to acquire language. You see behaviorism can meet the needs of very diverse populations. People trust science because it works & it proves itself.

[Spydyee]

It always amazes me how you behaviorists think anyone who doesn't agree with you has no knowledge. I have been involved with a family that uses ABA through my foundation for over 4 years now. Last week they finally decided to leave it when the therapist stepped over the last unacceptable line for them. Adults on the spectrum that have been treated through ABA have called it torture and abuse.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

I'm sorry to hear of bad experiences, but you do realize we all have different experiences. Science proves things, but people are of course faulty with or without a label. You do realize that science is not the people who do it? Science explains the mechanisms that make up things.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

The reason I bring this up is that Lovaas has shown methods to improve the outcome that this guy is talking about. Why wouldn't someone want to improve this outcome study for the comparable population?

[ABAisSCIENCE]

By this guy I mean atwhite57. I think he comes across as a reasonable human being that uses his mind to determine what truth is, but then being reasonable does not mean finding truth. What matters is whether he learns to help his son as that is what is difficult. Respecting, loving, & conforming for his son are more of a given, but those 3 things will not help a parent help their son. Still I suggest he do those 3 things while using teaching procedures that are proven.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Mind you when Lovaas proved those procedures it was for more affected populations & therefore anyone can state I learn different and I'm on the spectrum. What does that prove though? Give some research articles please to show learning for your population or for a comparable population like the one Lovaas' studied if you wish to attack Lovaas.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

I think it should be pointed out that ABA as an intervention for autism gives no direction as to the look or place of the intervention, nor does it give behavioral targets to teach. It is merely past research that shows the mechanism for learning. For instance, Lovaas through ABA proved backward chaining and discrete trial training (three part contingency in a clinical setting) as more useful than other procedures.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

autumngirl8967, keep in mind all people conform to the environment based on their past contingency exposure and the present contingencies. The path of conformity that those with autism take is less societal as they can't take in the stimulus that makes up social directions as they are stimulus overselective. It is hard to state an individual does not want to become less stimulus overselective as if they can write here on You Tube they already are not that affected. MORE

[Spydyee]

That last line is so full of crap. My non-verbal seven year old is my most profoundly affected child and ha has bee writing notes to us for almost 14 months now. This is an example of what is wrong with Lovaas' concepts. It isn't that we do not want to interact it is that we simply do not know how to do that the way people whose brains are wired differently do it. It will always be foreign to us and that is what behaviorists don't get.

[Spydyee]

If we could interact in the way that is most comfortable for us then you would see us interact more. It is society that needs to be modified not us.

[Spydyee]

Society needs to change.

You behaviorists want a project go change society. Go get the entirety of society to accept everyone just the way they are without setting social norms that discriminate. That should keep you busy enough. Oh, hey since this has never been tried and there are no precedents for doing it try electro-shock, yelling, and slapping all your subjects.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Your funny spydyee. Keep ranting with no direction I'm sure that's a good idea for your child. Or if your child is good with reading & writing you could look up Lovaas' 2nd institution where they do a read/write program. You see behaviorism can evolve for people of different needs, but I doubt you can evolve at all. What do you think Positive Behavioral Support which is based on the science of ABA is? Society supporting those with disabilities. We don't need your thanks though.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

There are now over 600 articles published in peer reviewed journals that demonstrate the efficacy of applied behavior analytic teaching strategies for children with autism spectrum disorders. 16 of them are population studies that talk about "indistinguishable" as an outcome for those with autism.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

This does not mean cure or recovery, but then you guys do not care about science or teaching procedures. Still if your son had SIB & in an institution perhaps you would see Lovaas in a different light. The light of history & that there was no intervention he knew of at the time & thus he chose some controversial ideas. Behaviorism is not those controversial ideas it is a science based on principles of learning. Lovaas hasn't done aversives for decades now.

[atwhite57]

I am planning on a video to look at a review of interventions for autism. Maybe there is something on ABA. I am alway wary when people talk about cures. But lets see. Stay tuned.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

I say have at it. ABA never talked about a cure & so no need to be weary about that intervention. Lovaas spoke about losing the label of autism which is based on behaviors. Thus, behavior modification based on learning theory should make the most sense. Sure enough it did. Your born with autism & as far as I know no pliers can pull it out during a surgery.

[TheAs57]

@atwhite57 what are the differences of Aspherger and Autism ? which one is the worst ?

[ballhog145]

@TheAs57 I have asphergers which is high fuctioning autism. Autism is worse then asphergers. It affects us more deeply than asphergers. I just wanted to get my two cents in.

[Spydyee]

All that means is that there is evidence that it works. Guess What! I never denied that it worked and neither does anyone that has ever seen the method in action. However, is it ethical? That is something that it is not. It is no more ethical than the actions of the guards at Abu Gharib. Should we use nuclear weapons just because they effectively end wars as was proven in WWII. No, because the cost outweighs the benefits. So it is with ABA.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

What is it? Again do you know what ABA is? You seem to assume that ABA is only the use of electroshock. Kind of like the blind man touching the elephants ear only. Congratulations though on making sense finally. We agree. I think it is wonderful that Lovaas has left aversives and many should take the hint.

[paulwady]

@ABAisSCIENCE Sounds like what we call 'social skills training'. Autistics learn responses to stimuli & neurotypical ways of relating. We can develop quite an act & fool parents etc on account of positive, normal-seeing behaviour. So everyones happy.

This does not mean we are being ourselves. So let us be us when we want, and we will learn the ways of the majority & make everyone else happy. But each autistic is a unique person inside.

X

[atwhite57]

I beleive in intervention. My son gets a lot, and seems to have benefited.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

By the way, I think you are being honest and promoting looking long range which is good. Many people begin an intervention without the end in mind. Due to this they think of only functioning level or intelligence and not what might matter more than education which is independence, communication skills, ability to control the world around them, and quality of life issues.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

This study is signficant in that if done prior to seven years old the chance is good for a great long term outcome (this study ran from 1970 to 1983) as the children studied had either no language (mute) or no functional language (echoic speech only).

McEachin, J., Smith, T., & Lovaas, O. I. (1993). Long-Term Outcome for Children with Autism who received Early Intensive Behavioral Treatment. AJMR, Vol. 97, No. 4, 359-372.

[atwhite57]

The paper I am describing here does not say that treatment is not useful, or should be confined to a certain age. This paper does not really address the issue of treatment. It just looks at overall functioning in adults who had been diagnosed as children.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

You do realize overall functioning is related to treatment or support? This is true at any age. Lovaas worked extensively with the adult population as well and intervention was meaningful when not discontinued. In other words, regardless of functioning outcome support relates to quality of life.

[Spydyee]

Lovaas used electric shock as an aversive. I would do whatever he wanted and so would you if he threatened you with electrical shocks. Support means something that helps a person be the best person they can be rather than molding them to be the person you think they should be.

[Spydyee]

Anything Lovaas touched I want nothing to do with. He tortured Autistic children and I wish I could do to him what he did to them but they would put me in jail for it. Instead of jailing him they made him a professor emeritus at one of this countries institutes of higher learning. Give me 5 minutes with that man just 5 minutes and I would show him what a really bad idea ABA is.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Spydyee, I wonder if you even know what ABA is. You see Lovaas does not have the patent on ABA. Did you ever take the classes in science where they talk about making a hypothesis and then testing it out by experimentation? ABA testing was done to show how much human attention controls other people. Replication of that experiment proves it scientifically, MORE

[ABAisSCIENCE]

but ABA gives other ideas for proving variables then replication like reversals (a replication of a sort), multiple baseline (eliminate confounding variables cocept idea), & other scientific procedures. You see ABA was taught to Lovaas by other scientists or behavioral researchers. Do you even know who they were and what they did? Researchers have come from Lovaas and continue on the legacy of ABA? You see Lovaas is one researcher in a science based field he doesn't define it.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Here are my thoughts: "You are correct that autism is a life long disability if not treated properly and if treatment comes too late then outcome is compromised due to past conditioning tied to neurological pruning during childhood. Yet it is never to late to teach by the method that works and improves the disability and the outcome is still able to be improved at any time. MORE TO COME

[sure01]

How are we suppose to do experiments when it can only be done on human beings. Just because of that there will be no cures developed because the practice are too dangerous. I think parents should support their child but not give up hope. Autism usually become's less affective as you get older and smarter... I don't have however any proof but I am autistic and I think its a battle to always challenge yourself. Ignoring that I am autistic gives me alot of confidence in my abilities.

[atwhite57]

I agree that it is hard to do good studies on the long term effect of treatment. I do think people will start looking at this, because of the increasing cost of treatment. I agree autism improves with age. I would never give up hope that my child will thrive and be happy.

[scepticchristian]

11% of AS group did not meet any ASD criteria in this follow up study. Why? Original/new misdiagnosis? Beat the system? Different diagnosis criteria? Cure? Even the Autism group had one person no longer being Autistic. Whilst 89% AS and 99% Autism diagnosis success sounds good, it appears either a significant misdiagnosis or research claims of ASD being a lifelong/incurable disorder are wrong. So can evangelical Christian groups celebrate healing miracles claiming science wrong?

[atwhite57]

I don't think it was misdiagnosis. I think those who "lost" the diagnosis simply improved over time to the point where they no longer met the criteria for an ASD. I think we will find this to be common in children with mile ASD to start with.

[Spydyee]

They may not exhibit the behaviors attributed to ASD by the diagnosticians but they still think differently. That is the underlying key. Most people when they meet me don't realize I am Autistic until I tell them but it is a mask I wear and I can't ever change the thought process that makes it be a mask. That is the Autism. until we get that concept into the heads of the people out in the world then we are going to continue this pointless debate.

[scepticchristian]

To avoid confussion overv a line in last post. Diagnosis for me, not baby. I just have a baby. I wrote it badly due to the ambiguity of much of the English language.

[scepticchristian]

My study is primarily on Asperger's Syndrome. In the UK, there are national and local services for ASDers both for children and adults. It is the transition and preparation for the latter which I'm interested to hear about. How can we better prepare/transit to college/work/adulthood?

I'm also keen to talk to people like Nenio300582. As a married 45yo post grad man with baby recently diagnosed with AS, I've never really met anyone with AS and I'm keen to.

[Spydyee]

I had the exact opposite problem. Every marriage I had until I married my Aspie husband ended up in divorce. I finally found someone that doesn't take it personally when I need solitude away from him. As the Aspie mom of Autistic kids I need a lot of down time away from everyone. When I need that he just goes off and enjoys his perseveration and I go off and enjoy mine. My NT husbands always needed too much attention from me and that made me feel like I was suffocating.

[scepticchristian]

Dear ATWhite57.

Thank you for this informative summary and I'm impresed by you care and attitude.

Can you provide me with the full source of the study or a link to it as I'd like to include it in a research paper I'm doing, but I need it ASAP (within 24 hrs) if that isn't a problem.

I'm also keen to hear any view or experience on how to better prepare children to adult within the sevices provided. I have AS and I'm from the UK but that's not important. Thanks

[srebrnakrila]

its great how you as a parent really care about your childs future and are involved and understand your sons "handicap" i know my parents didnt really know much about aspergers although they did their best to understand my brother. youre doing a great job

[Spydyee]

I am really unsure about all the statistical data in the study. However, I do agree with your statement that Autism is not something that is going to be cured. Perhaps some behaviors may be reduced or modified but the different way we think will never be cured. The reason the outcomes are not good for adults on the spectrum is because society is so busy trying to cure kids rather than accept them that when we reach adulthood we are expected to be what we can never be. NEUROTYPICAL

[atwhite57]

I agree. Thats why I think the general public needs to have a better understanding of what autism is.

[autumngirl8967]

Hi...I think many autistic individuals see it as NT adults "just wanting the person to conform," but there's another element to this which in fact was what the study (for the record, I'm not sure of the stats of the study either) was basing the prognoses on: independent living. It's not always because we "want" our children to "conform" or "be like everybody else". I think that's VERY unfair.

[autumngirl8967]

It is because we're their parents/families, and we love them so much, but one day we will be gone, in the case of parents we will almost certainly outlive our children, and what happens to the now-adult child? I have a nightmare vision of my dear son, 40 years old, weeping on a state funded bed because the $6-an-hour state workers don't give a hoot and have let him still sit in his diaper. We parents love our children.

[autumngirl8967]

With our whole hearts. Because we do, *we can not bear* to think of them not even having a shot at independent living--at *calling their own shots* and not being at someone else's mercy, someone who doesn't love them; someone who is not Mommy or Dad. I find it EXTREMELY UNFAIR to throw all parents who try to further their autistic children (via interventions, OT or what-have-you) into that mold of, "Oh, that parent wants to change us because it's more socially comfortable for the parent."

[autumngirl8967]

No, that is *not* why. It's because we brought our children into this world, and it's our responsibility to see that they go as far as they can--just like with an NT child. Just like with a child with cerebral palsy...a short child, a tall one...one with ADD...any child.

[mugglenz]

@autumngirl8967

Dear god, thats my nightmare too :-(

[autumngirl8967]

I'm really sorry...this response was meant for Spydee but it didn't come up that way...Thanks to the OP for the video; these responses were not for you. To Spydee, just as autistic individuals are trying to help NTs to understand and not peg and label you, we NTs would also like to be understood and not pegged and labeled.

[Spydyee]

As an adult autistic person and the parent of autistic children I too want my kids to have chance but the reality is that isn't going to happen if we keep on trying to change the unchangeable rather than the changeable unless you are saying to me that NT controlled society will never change to accept anyone different from themselves and if that is what you are saying you have made my point for me.

[Spydyee]

If our children are to have areal chance at independent living then society's perspective about them is going to have to change. If my son can never get a job because he hand flaps or flips light switches when he is under stress then he will never be able to live independently. Should I put him through 40 hours every week of mental cruelty in order to make him stop a natural behavior just so some NT can feel comfortable around him?

[Spydyee]

My answer to that is not no but HE# NO! The flippin' NT person can get over the fact that he hand flaps or flips light switches when he is stressed out. Go watch Christschool's video about repetitive behaviors and see who is at the end of it rocking away.

[Spydyee]

WILLIAM GATES

Thats Who

He has enough money that it doesn't matter if he rocks when he is under stress but if my kid did that he would get fired from his job. That is the point from which my attitude problem stems. Exactly who decided that the NT way is the way in which we should do things.

[Spydyee]

Who died and left the NTs in charge. The last time I looked every major contributor to the arts, science, economics, literature, and mathematics has been a little off center from the NT Norms and some like Vernon Smith and John Nash have been so far off from the center that they have actually been given labels like Asperger's Syndrome and Schizophrenia.

[Spydyee]

Don't get me wrong I have no problem with helping children be the best Autistic person they can be just like you would any child but the point is just that helping them be the best AUTISTIC person they can be rather than helping them learn to conform to NT norms.

[autumngirl8967]

But in my experience anyway, that IS what many NT parents are trying to do--make them the best autistic person they can be. Yet any parent who never wants to see his or her autistic child progress is lumped into a "curebee" and a demon and a control freak who "just wants to change" the person... (continued)

[autumngirl8967]

...Which is absolutely unfair...not to mention inaccurate, alarmist and, forgive me, but sometimes an excuse. My NT oldest son didn't know how to read when he was born and he wasn't potty trained, but he didn't say "You're trying to change me!" when I moved him in the direction of *eventually* learning those things...

[autumngirl8967]

...which for the record there *wasn't* any guarantee he would eventually do. No parent even of an NT child KNOWS his or her child will do "all" of the "normal" NT things, which, by the way, are Marcia Brady or star-highschool-quaerterback sterotypes........

[autumngirl8967]

...and *not* reality. You may see all NTs as having it so incredibly easy. All this stuff just comes naturally to us. NO, it does NOT. Or there wouldn't be bullying...there wouldn't be being denied jobs because we're too fat, too thin...tell the wrong kind of joke, are too funny,

[beeleetoodles]

hello, I am the step-parent of an 18 year old with pdd-nos, also with a bi-polar diagnosis, also I work as a nurse in a long term psych unit where some of my patients are autistic. If you would like to contact me about what we as a family have been thru I would be happy to share with you.

[atwhite57]

Hi. Thanks. I'll check out your videos. Kudos to you for doing a difficult and compasionate job.

[bridgeovertroubled12]

mate 3 out 4 familes who have children with Autism get divorced. That a really big indicator of the strest that puts families under

[atwhite57]

I'm not sure how accurate that is. I've been trying to find the source of that info. There are lots of studies which document the stress that an autistic child has on the family.

[Spydyee]

Autism does not create the stress. Society's screwed up perceptions about things and "need to conform" creates the stress. With 5 people in my house "on the spectrum" we just don't conform and when society shows up on my doorstep to try to make me I tell them if they want me to do it their way then they are going to have go give me the help I need to do it their way or I am going to continue to do it my way. Usually, they go away (its easier).

[SexySug3742]

Why do people blame it on autistic children? MY parents got divorce, and it wasn't because of my autism. It was personal reasons that they wouldn't tell me.

[atwhite57]

I agree. I'm not sure to what extent having a disabled child disrupts marriage.

[nenio300582]

I am turning 25 and have only just been diagnosed with the Asperger Syndrome. Shock, but relief too as I can now explain quite a bit that I never understood about my life. Just so you know, I am currently doing a MA which is good alright and consider doing a PhD next. I have few real friends, if any, as I have learned to kinda disappear before I disappoint people...

[atwhite57]

Well, the diagnosis may be the beginning of being able to understand yourself better.

[lordalfredhenry]

A question I have here. What is better? Someone who has job and apartment/home but is slowly dying from stress/metabolic issues or someone who is cared for, has friends/carers (at an independant living center or hospital), less stress and in good shape?

[cola19]

Well, someone who is cared for, has friends, has his rent paid for him, has time to go to the gym and doesn't work is obviously the worst of the two.

[bridgeovertroubled12]

If you compare it to the rest of the population who live at home not out of choice but because of need. You realise that those who are not independent live very hopeless lives not to mention that Asperger affects the family and very one with in close distance of the sufferer. Not just inviduals. So when you say that think about the affect this has on the entire family

[bridgeovertroubled12]

What kind of family situation do think that is like when the person who have Asperger does not function. And keep it in the perspective that Asperger familes are not better then other families, however added added stress and conflict is placed on them, yet they do not neccassily have the ability to cope better then other normal familes do.

[lordalfredhenry]

As someone with Aspergers here, what do you mean when someone like myself "does not function"? My family situation was like a lot of other family situations at our economic level. There were good things and bad. It wasn't some horrible nightmare for them. They don't necessarily cope any worse than "normal" families do.

[lordalfredhenry]

Very interesting video backed up with a good argument/facts. Not saying can't be debated but it is a strong statement. My own outcome has been good for the past 8 years. Currently, and before then, I was only "fair". Even the "worst" outcome is not necessarily a life of misery. Happiness can be more than independant living or occupation. Socio-mental well-being, otherwise healthful life can contribute as well.

[christschool]

Another problem with these studies is the way they measure outcome. Asperger's wasn't added to the DSM until 1994, not sure when it was added to the european equivalent, probably around the same time. Another problem is that you had one clinic, presumably one group of clinicians interpreting outcomes.

[lessorof2evils]

The average age of the subjects was 10 yo when they received their first diagnosis. This is relatively late. Does the study talk about early intervention? What standard was used to diagnose the subjects (DSM)?

[atwhite57]

I was also puzzled by the late age of diagnosis of autism. Also they did not discuss intervention. I may be making a second video on the paper based on peoples criticisms.

[christschool]

I don't feel like I know enough about this study to really criticize it. I can tell you this isn't the largest longitudinal study. If that is what the authors stated, their wrong. There was a study of nearly 300 individuals from the UK.

When reading studies from Europe, keep in mind that getting a diagnosis there is much more difficult than it is here, that is why the average age was so much higher in the study, and thus skewed more to the "impaired" population.

[lessorof2evils]

I would be interested in seeing a follow up. I'm also curious about treatments/therapies received by the subjects from diagnosis to when the study took place.