Air France Crash Terror Investigation

[OoMusicFreakyoO]

is it not possible that the tail of the airplane fall off (from big wind whatever)

and then the pilots losed controls and the airplane crashed??

[210482fmj]

this is terrible and i think for the victims families sake we should try and stop discussing this now. don't keep bringing up painful memories on here. we can't alter the fact its happened now.

[encinobalboa]

Rudder separation happened in 2001 A300 Jamaica Bay accident. Perhaps excessive rudder input caused the AF447 rudder separation.

[LottoWinner999]

@encinobalboa This is what happens when Airliners are rushed rushed through production + testing + my bet is Rolls Royce Trent 700 jet engine had a massive explodsion like the one on the Sinapore A380. Massive engine explosion on Aibus A330 two engine plane cut hyrdralics down it went. Airbus has not matured on accident prevention + this was a youg plane. Airbus need a redo on engine pods + get rid of dangerous Rolls Royce engine which had to replace 40 leaking Trent engines for Quantas A380.

[bravobravo74]

@LottoWinner999 Your hypothesis and sweeping generalisations are nonsense unfortunately. They flew into a thunderstorm and a combination of ice and turbulence caused the fatal damage. To call Rolls Royce engines 'dangerous' is rather naiive. On a slightly tongue-in-cheek note, we Brits invented the jet engine so if anyone can build a good one it's us! Australians were to blame for the Qantas debacle, they should all go back from whence they came. Wait a minute . . . . . .

[LottoWinner999]

@bravobravo74 Its amazing that sixten A330's have crashed + RR has to replace 40 Quantas engines on their Airbus. RR should make cars only cuz the Trent Series is defective + Air France who crashed N2 the oceans had RR-Trent-700 enignes. U Airfaggers should quit building junk airplanes + Airbus is a piece of shit with 2 wings that shits + crashes. Another example like the "Comet" cover up by DeHavilland. Airbus should makes RC Planes for kids cuz U guys act like U know it all, like the Comet!

[bravobravo74]

@LottoWinner999 RR have been making aero engines since 1914 so have some respect. As for Comet there was no cover-up, the engineers worked day and night to solve the problem of metal fatigue and pioneered passenger jet transport. Let me remind you that America has made enough 'troubled' machines such as the DC-10 and the Space Shuttle. Two questions - what's an Airfagger and why do you write like a six year-old? I generally like Americans but people like you test my resolve.

[LottoWinner999]

@bravobravo74 6 Comets crashed B4 they grounded them + De Haviland knew they were defective + RR+Aibus knew Trent Engines were leaking oil + AB gave Singapore a discount to keep it quiet. Quantas has to replace 40 RR engines on A380. The French R paying allot of money to keep investigation + U Airfaggers wanted to use shit-box A330 for tanker!. For a young Airline Airfags has over 30 crashes cuz of cheap + shoddy building. They might ban A3330 in USA until U fix the piece of shit with 2 wings.

[bravobravo74]

@LottoWinner999 Being an Englishman I don't particularly like the French but I respect their aero-industry and think that Airbus make pretty good aircraft. After all the A320 that landed on the Hudson remained in one piece. What becomes apparent from reading your comments is that you hate everything that's not American for some reason and write very offensive material. Maybe winning a large sum of money has detached you from reality and given you an unjustified sense of self-importance.

[LottoWinner999]

@bravobravo74 Well your on the wrong side of the fence + U know how ditry the Frogs + Krauts yet U respect a company whose CEO said, "If we have to sell every tanker at a loss to put Boeing out of business we will." Thats 1 reason U lost USAF Tanker Contract + the fact the Spain, France, Germany UK subsidize Airbus + Boeing still whupped your asses. The 1 only reaon A320 landed safely was cuz Sullenberger was 25 year USAF trained fighter pilot + A320 is piece of fucking shit with 2 wings.

[LottoWinner999]

@bravobravo74 That plane did not break up because the pilot was retired USAF jet fighter pilot. Think about the fact that A330 lost both engines at same time. U ave to consider the water was like glass with no chop. I am concerned when an Airbus loses two engines at the same time that tells me there is some thing wrong with the A330. The are young airplanes encountering prolems at an early age but you must consider Airbus cuts corners. Watch "Airbus A380 Flutter Test" + tell me what U think.

[MrCriticOfAll]

@LottoWinner999 I agree.I'm an Aussie who is not in the industry but know a few who are.And they all say the same thing.SCAREBUS!

[LottoWinner999]

@MrCriticOfAll The cause of the Air France Flight 447 was the "Pitot Tube" + this is 4TH A330 crash not including close calls. The same "Pitot Tubes" R used on all Airbus planes so U have to ask yourself how many crashed from defective Pitot Tubes. Same thing with the RR Trent that exploded on Quantas A380. I hate to say it but for a young airline with new planes they have allot of crashes + Airbus planes would not be approved in USA for an Airworthy but the French approves all Airbus planes.

[pietenpol2010]

@LottoWinner999 Don't forget the A320 Flt 296 crash.

[LottoWinner999]

@pietenpol2010 It was proven that 3 Pitot Tubes on A330 were defective and falied + it caused a computer glitch to slowed the plane + it stalled from 38,000 feet hitting the ocean in 3-1/2 minutes. This was 5TH A330 crash to do this + its disgrace Airbus has no fixed it. All Boeing planes have 2 electric + 2 manual air speed indicators + if both failed the pilot and the crew are taught to do dead reckining to figure air speed and position. These Pitot Tubes are used on all Airbus Death-Traps!

[pietenpol2010]

@LottoWinner999 Here is what one of the higest time A330 pilots had to say. The aircraft "can not be stalled." When the flight controls are in "normal law" is a reasonably true statement. However, in "alternate law," as was the case here, stall protection can be lost. If we ever practiced this in the simulator, I don't remember it. Despite all of my experience in the aircraft, I am not the least bit certain that I would have been able to maintain control under the same circumstances.

[LottoWinner999]

WHY DID A320 Flight 296 CRASH @ PARIS AIR SHOW

May 1998, it is proven that the Flight Data Recorder was switched after the accident. Lausanne Institute of Police Forensic Evidence and Criminology comes to the conclusion the recorder presented to the Court is NOT the one taken from the aircraft after the accident. Evidence,photographs, has now been exposed that Airbus official at the scene switched Digital Flight Data Recorder before the court hearing.

Read at Airdisaster(Dot)com

[LottoWinner999]

@MrCriticOfAll I know its painful but ppl need to know cuztheir risking their lifes + the only way Airbus will make improvments is after a crash. It bothers me the French Aviation Bureau rubber stamps all Airbus planes. If Airbus built their planes in the USA they would not get an airworthy certicate. Every new plane that Boeing makes is run through an extremely difficult process to be awarded airworthy certificate. Ppl laugh at Boeing delays but they say lives to get it right the 1ST time.

[MrCriticOfAll]

@LottoWinner999 I dont know if ur a ford or a chevy man but i have always considered boeing as the fords of the skies-Fast reliable and safe.Oh and the 747 series is my favorite plane

[LottoWinner999]

@MrCriticOfAll I have a Chevy Silverado which suites me just fine however I was expressing myself concerning Airbus and if its not a Boeing I'm not going!

[pietenpol2010]

@LottoWinner999 Lets not forget the Airbus is certified in the US through a reciprocal agreement. They're cert. process is also long. It is their design philosophy that is flawwed. The Boeing 787 Dreamliner is the fastest selling airliner of all time...over 800 orders even before production has started. Airbus may never break even on the A380. Boeing builds what the market wants:)

[LottoWinner999]

@pietenpol2010 A380 can not pass US standards. U should watch "Airbus A380 Flutter Test" + 1ST time A380 flunked its Flutter Test + A380 could only take the minimum requiremnt of 9.5 1G. After the test they examined the A380 + central spar from nose to tail was almost ripped out + quick fix + 6 months later it passed. Boeing 747s have taken 4 to 6 Gs in real close calls + landed safely. Airbus frames R cheap + if U want to fly in a plain with bare minimu standards be me guest but its your life.

[pietenpol2010]

@LottoWinner999 It is certified here by reciprocal agreement. Otherwise US airlines could not use it, nor would other carriers be allowed to land it here. I think you're confused on "flutter" It is an aerodynamic phenomenon. Has nothing to do with "G" loading which is structural loading. Now they will do a resonance test on the ground for flutter as doing it in flight is deadly. Or can be. Us lower atmospheric guys. usually get to a certain AS and give the stick a whack.--lol

[LottoWinner999]

@pietenpol2010 I was in USAF from 1966-1969 and I leanred allot USAF aircraft + I was not a pilot but I was in Vietnam. I saw allot of aircraft + hitched a ride on B-52 any time I got a chance to fly. I saw B-52s hit with Russian SAM missiles + it was amazing how much damage the plane could take + still land. In SAC AKA Stretegic Air Command U would not believe how much stress + strain Boeing aircraft R put though. So when U fly U should realize A380 can't take a 1G force without coming apart.

[pietenpol2010]

@LottoWinner999 Actually to be certified, and this is in France too they have to be able to withstand 3.5G positive and 1.5 negative with 150% of that being ultimate load. It withstands 1G just holdin itself up in the air:)

[LottoWinner999]

@pietenpol2010 Did you watch that video, its really good and not baised at all.

[LottoWinner999]

@pietenpol2010 I found this vidoe for you _ U can find it one youtube by typing "air crash investigations Air China 747 over pacific". Its a recreation of acutal fact and real footage of a Boeing 747-400 that lost 4 engines to pilot error. The 747-400 survived 4 to 6 GS + the damage to the 747-400 was intense + the plane survived a 25,000 foot dive + recovered with a safe landing. All airliner have close calls but when I fly its Boeing cuz no other plane could survive 4 to 6Gs + think about it!

[pietenpol2010]

@LottoWinner999 Hey no argument nhere on Boeing. Redesigns are not uncommon after testing. With the 747 the design revisions were costing so much by the time production started ($1 million/day) that had it not been successful the company would have folded. They literally bet the life of the company on it. Airbus may never recover the costs of the A380.

[LottoWinner999]

@pietenpol2010 Allot of people have said the A380 Airbus is Europes revenge on Boeing by wanting to put them out business. Boeing knows better to build a plane for revenge and Airbus has done so and their regreting it. Since 747-8I came out 5 months ago Boeing has117 orders while A380 has none for the year + has to sell 500 to break even. Airbus desperate 4 cash built cheap A320neos + will not be paid till they deliver in 2019 plus A350 has no engine + is now called the A350-Delay-Liner, LOL.

[LottoWinner999]

@pietenpol2010 A Boeing 707 was the best Airliner for 15 years. B4 it became Boeing 707 it was the Boeing KC-135 Stratotanker thats still in service today. USAF planes R built tougher + nothing takes a beating more than a tanker. Airbus + other manufacturers use weaker frames for civilain aircraft. All Boeing airliner frames R built to USAF standards which mean a tough durable airframe. U can't beat Boeing cuz they build what the market needs, the best advanced quality aircraft for the money.

[pietenpol2010]

@LottoWinner999 No agrgument on my part for Boeing. However they are usually modified from their civilian design some to meet Mil spec. They also haven't designed the pilot out of the loop as Airbus has. I won't fly on an Airbus. I think "bus ' says it all--lol

[LottoWinner999]

@pietenpol2010 Thats the biggest mistake Airbus made by taking the pilot out the captains seat and replacing them with a computer. I saw this aviation cartoon were an Airbus pilot on the right was flying the plane + it the dashbord that only had had a switch that said on and off and below that it said "Do Not Touch". On the left was a Boeing Pilot and CoPilot busy flying the airplane and monitoring a who slew of electronic instrments. Google aviation cartoons and you might find it.

[LottoWinner999]

@pietenpol2010 Britain is stuck with Airbus and I think the French are out to get total ownership of Airbus in a devious manner. Its surprising all the Brits do for their share is build wings while France and Germany builds planes.Theres some thing wrong and I believe the French are out to screw some one way or another and the amout money Airbus owes and the recent 6 Billion more Euros of debt is shared. France has all the plants for building planes at the expense of Britain, Spain + germany?

[MrCriticOfAll]

@MrCriticOfAll You dont mind if i paint that on the back of my Mazda do you?Hey i tried to subscribe to you!Send me an invite.

[LottoWinner999]

@bravobravo74 Rolls Royce should stay with building cars cuz Britain does not have the Industrial Power + capability to build precision jet engines on a large scale. Every RR Engine has to be replaced on the Quantis fleet of 10. Airbus paid Singapore Airlines to keep quiet about leaky RR Trent Engine. Rolls Royce like Airbus rushed production + knew the engine has defects and leaks oil yet their flying?? U can put your family on Airbus but I would think about twice. Airfagger is an Airbus.

[LottoWinner999]

@bravobravo74 The only people that boarded the last that Crashed were loyal BOAC employees and they were ordered on that Public Relations flight so the Comet would not appear empty since there were no passengers that wanted to fly. Well that plane crashed and BOAC employees died in a decompressive explosion at 28,000 feet. Makes you feel good huh? Well thats the truth and De Havilland needed the money so they risked peoples lifes for a few pounds. It took 4 crashes B4 Comet was grounded? SHAME!

[bravobravo74]

@LottoWinner999 I'm not particularly patriotic but to say that Britain doesn't have the capability to build precision jet engines is pretty stupid. Firstly, you're judging an entire nation on the work of one company. Secondly, we invented the jet engine and have arguably the richest industrial and engineering history from the last 300 years. You keep criticising Comet but the pioneer of any new technology is bound to be the first to experience its complications.

[LottoWinner999]

@bravobravo74 Rolls Royce knew Trent Engines leaked oil + are defective. Quantas is pissed cuz Airbus paid Singapore Airlines not to tell Quantas about leaking oil + defects. Quantas flight with exploding Trent was lucky cuz they were 300 miles out they would never make it back. French Aviation Bureau ruled Pitot Tube on Air France Flight 47 were defective + cause the crash of four A330s from Pitot Tubes that R installed in all Airbus planes yet there not fixed + there disaters waiting 2 happen!

[LottoWinner999]

@bravobravo74 Oh I understand the Comets new technology but USA miliatary jets 10 years priot never exploded from decompression. People that built the Comet knew the plane was defective and they cut corners on it with thin skin and workmen hammered screws in instead screwing them in. Comet was all about profit and to be the 1ST on the market at the expense of peoples lifes. The last Comet to explode was full of employees for the news people cuz no one in their right mind would fly on it.

[pietenpol2010]

@LottoWinner999 Don't forget that the "comet" stayed in use until the 90s as the Nimrod anti submarine aircraft.

Don't forget too that nobody understood fatigue back then. Could have happened to anybody. Just happened to DeHavilland 1st. Very fortunate for Boeing, Lockheed and Douglas

[LottoWinner999]

@pietenpol2010 In the late 1930s Boeing, Lockheed + Douglas built pressurized civillain aircraft during WW2. In 1943 Boeing built B-377 double decker in with pressurized cabins. 1950 American manufacturers were way ahead in pressurized planes. Sorry the Comet was a rush job to beat Boeing to the jet airliner market + they cut corners with a thin skin + workers nailed the screws in instead of drilling a hole. Four Comet crashes made ppl affraid to fly and Boeing 707 arrived took over the market!

[pietenpol2010]

@LottoWinner999 Yes they did, but they did not understand fatigue. They thought if they built it strong enough it would not break. We now know that aluminum fatigues to zero. The only pressurized aircraft in WWII was the B@( and its design life was very short. BTW the problem w/the comet was the square windows. Why all modern aircraft have round corners on the windows.

[LottoWinner999]

@pietenpol2010 One of the amazing aircraft was the Lockheed Constellation and Howard Huges ordered 100 of the four-engine airliner that carried 128 passenger in 1940 and did 377 MPH. Well Pearl Harbor happened and USA government drafted all 100 of them but finally they let Howard Hughes keep three of them if hehelped them out on air desgin. When I was 6 years old in 1954s kids go up to cockpit and sit in a chair for kids and watch the crew of a Pilot, Co-pilot, Navigater and Aircraft Engineer.

[pietenpol2010]

@bravobravo74 The latest is the turbulence had nothing to do with it. The aircraft was intact when it hit the water. It remanied stalled from 38000ft until it hit the water. And I differ on your opinion of the Aussies. It has been rulled a design flaw in the engines.

[bravobravo74]

@pietenpol2010 You're right, who envisaged that to be the case though?! I didn't offer an opinion on Aussies, I attempted an ironic joke (albeit a bad one) as sending them back to where they came from would mean having them back in Britain.

[therockmood]

Poor little frogs. They never stood a chance :(

[1982FMJ]

this is still a mystery of what really happened. We will not be able to reach a definite conclusion. Bad turbulence is capable of of downing a flight or causing serious damage

[nojyt]

How is this a video about the terrorism angle, as the title suggests? They only spent about 10 seconds talking about it. The rest of the video is about the more likely scenario of speed censor failure. See, in particular, how sure the union guy seems at 1:24 to 1:34.

[nojyt]

How is this a video about the terrorism angle, as the title suggests? They only spent about 10 seconds talking about it. The most important part of the video was 1:24 to 1:34, where the airline union guy says the speed censor failures are an obvious reason for the crash.

[fishychipygravy2k9]

does anyone know exactly what happend

[effyleven]

The tail came off BECAUSE the plane hit the water. The plane did NOT hit the water because the tail came off!!

[masm60]

@effyleven Don't be so sure. American 587 was an A300 that crashed in New York precisely because the tail ripped off. There could be a design flaw in the tail structure.

[effyleven]

@masm60 The tail of American 587 parted company with the fuselage because the 1st officer yanked it off with alternate full locking of the rudder when flying through turbulence. Dammit! Any other commercial jetliner would likely have fallen apart sooner, considering the massive punishment he meted out to the airframe!

[masm60]

@effyleven From the NTSB report DCA02MA001

"At 0915:58.4 (the time that the right rear main attachment fitting fractured),

the rudder was deflected between 10º and 11º to the right,the sideslip angle was between 11º and 12º to the right, and the airplane experienced a 0.2 G shift

to the right in lateral load factor."

I'm no expert so should a plane break apart at 0.2 G and is a 10 degree deflection of the rudder full deflection? It sounds nominal to me.

[effyleven]

@masm60 Nothing nominal about it when airflow is turbulent. It's just that he repeatedly made exactly the WRONG rudder movements at exactly the RIGHT moments to stress the structure to breaking point, and therefore his actions were added to those created by turbulence.

Have you never got the water in a bathtub practically climbing the walls with just slight movements of the flat of your hand? It's just a matter of swishing IN PHASE as the motion builds, which it does very quickly indeed!

[sullrs]

This could be LOST in real life :)

[communistony]

u must know that every single day pilots complain to companies about instrumental and technical problems, the technicians working for the companies have orders to: 1. to fix and repair ASAP, 2. put "ok" where u didn't have time to examin, so that airplanes go back to business. in conclusion, safety which is NUMBER 1 obligation to aviation is put behind companies Economical interest. What to do? nothing because they will tell u the exact opposit of what i said

[communistony]

1. by fixing heavy damaged instruments, 2. taking time to fix airplanes means that fewer airplanes will be working properly, thus leading to a dicrease of flights, which means less money for the company. in other words, as u heard when pilots were complaining about technical problems before the accent, the aircrash clearly shows that nothing has been done about the problem thus leading to a disaster.

[communistony]

Airbus and Boeing have tons and tons of defects in their flights but airline companies don't spend the required time to deal with them coz all they care about is puting their planes in service so that the companies won't loose money:

[JSAirways]

were the black boxes ever found?

[TheGamerHD]

wtf is wrong with ppl today.... god THERE WERE NO TERRORISTS U DUMB ASSES..... BAD WEATHER! OF COURSE THAT CRASH WOULD HAPPEN! FUCK U PPL AND THE PPL WHO BLAME ISLAM FOR THIS CRASH.

[mattstorm360]

@TheGamerHD ya but still it is posibil for terrorists to get on looking like some one ells

but still there where no terrorists

[tommyrjensen]

Isn't to most people "French secret service" synonymous with a terrorist organisation that plants bombs and blows up ships operated by environmental protection agencies? And one main reason to avoid purchasing any products made in France. To state that "French secret service is investigating" doesn't seem the most comforting thought to anyone who is in some way affected by this kind of terrible event.

[jimmywrangles]

@tommyrjensen

RIP the Rainbow Warrior.

[AmericAWordsMatter]

Something bigger than things that divide Jews, Muslims and Christians: THE DEEPEST DARKEST SECRET OF THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE.

[Valkyrie116]

Egebam.

You are my HERO

[phatdic11]

Your gonna see more attacks linked to terrorist and Islam because the New World Order is commanding attacks to further their agenda as in 911. How could they let this man get on this plane with all of our technology. This is another plan to soften the illegal wars in the middle east. PETN is a high explosive. Where could this man get this explosive if he was a terrorist on the list. Security was alerted by his own father prior. Why did they even let him on the plane? Attack on USA? LOL!

[AndyMcArren1356]

guys like WOW, That 757 comment was in reply to a guy asking about what plane crashed because of faulty speed sensors!!! WOW

[xterrasesc]

dude....what are they covering up? Airbus seems pretty safe to me. tell me something I don't know.

[PrettyNeckslashes]

Good point! I had not thought of that possibility. They could even have an imam belting out Koranic messages throughout the flight...

What would we call it?

Airjack, Air Submission, Allair, Airjihad, Alibabair, IslamabadAir, BadAir, PlaneBadAir, BombAir, AirBomb, Terrorair, Angry Killer Bees in a Pressurized Can, Meccair, AeroMohammed, Aeroviolence, Aerosuspicion, Aerofear, Aeroterror, Aeropanic, Halalair, Kuffair...

[egebamyasi]

I think we've got it all covered there. Just needs a logo now - i would guess at the mandatory crossed bloody swords and maybe a couple of stoned women at either side.

[neoconsrsheep]

fffffff

[neoconsrsheep]

The Islamic terrorists climbed out on the tail section and used a box cutter to saw the stabilizer fin off, people... All outside the aircraft and at over 500mph. They were wearing suction cups, then let go to their deaths and are now in heaven with 41 virgins...

[faro0485]

French planes are falling apart (concorde blew up over france), so they blame it on the muslims.

[sailretard]

CONCORDE?

WHAT CONCORDE?

The Same That Crashed because an AMERICAN DC10 left a piece of its fuselage ON THE RUNWAY?

AMERICAN retardness delivering ...THE ONLY PLANE that CRASHED due TO PITOP TUBE PROBLEMS was the BOEING 767...TWICE IN ONE YEAR: AEROPERU AND BIRGENAIR

TAKE ur MOUTH out of UR Ash

[AndyMcArren1356]

It is 757 to be nice with you

[xterrasesc]

And the pitot tude was covered in ducttape.

[saudi4eva9]

i think that's some bullshit :) france saying this just to cover some mechanic problems , simply to protect thier airbus reputation R.I.P 4 those who died

nice try tho france

[GallardoLP560dash4]

I dont know about the terrorism thing but i dont think its the A330's fault. It's faulty pilot tube, not design flaw or something

[WIERDINVESTIGATES]

tht sucks