Both compressors sounded fine, but different. I suspect that the clone is designed to mimic a pristine restored La2a, but since you were comparing it to a used and abused La2a, there would be differences. I would be interested to hear a comparison with a restored la2a, and see what differences there would be. Thanks for posting, a very interesting video.
@TheThethinker101 Thanks for your comment- you are absolutely spot-on. We absolutely should try and find a well-restored La2a to do the exact same testing. Unfortunately, most people aren't willing to let their hands off of a well-restored one!! We will be on the lookout though, great idea.
with that been said the ADL1500 was "SLIGHTLY" brighter the vocals had a bit more presences the ADL1500 probably grabs faster although it had the same settings.
@makerKID5 Sure... actually, there was slightly more haze/mud on the old one, since it hadn't been refurb'd, so you are hearing more openness and reveal from the original track (an attribute of a technically superior performing compressor- less artifacts of compression) through the ADL. Bottom line is that this is mostly due to the age of the La2a and could be corrected so that they would be very in line with eachother with refurbishment and calibration. Tonally, we felt they were quite close
If it works it works I appreciate you guys taking the time out to do these comparisons! but I have to agree with your philosophy these units not only the ones in this particular test but in other videos as well sound remarkably similar yet people insist on commenting that there is a HUGE recognizable difference my ears must not work correctly, the Vintage vs. New, Anolag vs. Digital debate is old if it works it works these same people probably argue about ITB & OTH summing to seriously people?
The La-2a sounds much better, dont need studio monitor to hear that. The 1500 sounds big(transfo, tubes) but it doesnt sound right and it doesnt have that nice La2a texture. I dont like the attack and release, and the sound is very hazy. And i think you are compressing more with the 1500 dont look at the meter, use your young ears,the VU is probably not calibrated on the La-2a. Even with aged caps, most old La-2a sound very good.
@YouKazeTV Got to be honest, even in this comparison your comment seems to be internally in conflict. The "hazy" one is actually the La2a if one can make such a statement comparing these two. If the La2a was refurb'd you'd have heard negligible difference. That being said, yes, most of the difference had more to do with "calibration" as you've suggested, and compression engagement/release points than the actual tonal differences between the units. Tonally, they do achieve similar things.
@LotsApapa1 OK, as mentioned in the video, the differences in compression engagement (due to the sloppy control tolerances on the old unit) meant that the compressors were engaging a bit differently. However, the tonal similarities are certainly there.
@Equestional well, we are super hesitant to use the terms "better" to describe thigns in this context... since making this video, we've determined that delivering videos in the "blind" shootout format is far more effective and makes for far better conversation. In the end, there is no perfect tool for any one job, but there is no doubt that the ADL performs as a freshly refurbished la2a would (given that he is one of the premier guys that cleans only la2a's up)
@marios7480 Fair enough... to one ear it is more beefy, to another it is more muddy! No worries- keep in mind that given the age of the vintage units, and the varying degrees of repair and refurbishment you find them, they will vary tremendously. We actually felt that had the La2a we were testing for this one really could use some work- and if that had been done, it would have been more detailed, open, and really sound more like the ADL.
General conclusion from what I've heard and always keeping in mind the limitations of an internet channel:Tubes have always been superb (and always they will be) not only in sound issues but generally in anything that has to do with output power quality.
This is good, but what is great is the plugins. I like them better. Linux Ardour and the CALF plugins are all i need. Towd has spoken and proved it in documentary. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE! The plugins sound just as good, if not better.
@analyzingfunny Respectfully disagree... while plugins are getting better, they fail at producing the harmonic complexities and overtones associated with analog vacuum tube circuits. These analog behaviors can be attempted crudely, and with carying degrees of success, but plug-ins will have a hard time reaching them for many years to come. I'd love it to be the case that a $200 plug-in could behave like a $2,000 or $20,000 compressor. Unfortuantely they don't, which is why we sitll use analog
@digitalmonkeynuts Are you talking about our speaking? If so, sorry... if you are talking about the actual shootout, then you need to be listening at 720p. Further, as with any of our videos (because there are sonic limitations due to the youtube compression algorithm) we offer the full high resolution audio files of ANY of our videos to our customers, all you have ot do is e-mail us at audio@soundpure(dot)com. Given you are the first in 50,000 views, we are surprised to hear this comment!
@digitalmonkeynuts Well, as you can tell by our more recent videos we've tried to address that. The voice recording quality was not the purpose of the video, so hopefully you can look past that to ascertain the value of this kind of a shootout as others have done. We will contineu to try to improve the production quality of what we are doing while at the same time producing as much free content to the recording world out there.
i was watching some explicit videos on youtube and saw this video as a suggestion and clicked it. heres my 2 cents: im no professional but im guessing if someone wanted the old crappy sound of vintage equipment, they can use that. but this is 2011 im sure there's software that can do what any hardware does but even better btw, the adl 1000 sounds better. that 'character' everyone loves from old gear isnt character... it just sounds like shit nowadays but ppl call it that 'vintage' sound
@bootyhd That's an interesting perspective for sure! You can get your hands on some fabulous old gear, but the reality of it is a lot of it has problems- noise floor, maintenance issues, mechanical or physical flaws... it doesn't make it not-worth-owning, but at the price of Vintage, we have generally felt that if there are new modern alternatives that cost less, provide the same approximate sound, and have the reliability and consistency of a new piece of gear, that's a great thing...
@quanah It seems that when we called one "vintage" many on the street felt similar to you-that it was smoother and darker. In our tests (conducted blindly here), we felt that the ADL exhibited more accurate compression controls, and better retention of high-frequency information. The "vibe" was there, but the vintage unit just seemed to behave a little more erratically... but, the vintage units differ quite a lot from one to another, so tough to be scientific with any particular one of them.
@soundpurestudios the word "vintage" didn't sway my opinion at all. the original has a smoother release and less of a detailed/airy tone (which is why i said "darker"). darker doesn't mean better. both units have nice tone, but the original has better dynamic control. you can really hear it on the female vocals.
@quanah It's just funny for us- when this shootout was conducted blindly people had different frames of mind- but on youtube, everyone "loves the vintage." It's not unique to this post... people seem convinced, that Vintage (regardless of sound) must be better, and are literally looking for a way to justify that- if you really prefer one, great! On another shootout, someone liked the fact that an older preamp was noisier!! Regarding dynamic control, the vintage would literally not behave.
@soundpurestudios yeah a lot of people seem to find reasons to like vintage stuff. maybe they're building a vintage museum studio or something haha. i don't have any vintage gear actually. i prefer newer equipment, preferably with a warranty. great quality video btw. do you have any vids of the 'Retro Instruments' gear? i've been really interested in their products, but can't seem to find any high quality vids of their stuff
@quanah They really do... sometimes it's justificable, but sometimes it's not. We have always felt that if you can "get there" with a new unit your life will be simpler- save money, no maintenance, get a warranty!!
We will be engaging with the Retro stuff very soon. We would LOVE to do this kind of shootout with their gear, and think it would go a long way to helping get the world out about what they do.
Thanks for all the posts, and for posting your opinions here!
@soundpurestudios well i really do appreciate the quality of your vids. i like your a designs hammer vid a lot. i was really curious about that piece and at first was scouring the gearslutz forums for random opinions. after i saw your hammer vid, i thought "jeeez if there were more vids like this of gear, there would be absolutely no reason to search for opinions on sites like gearslutz".
@quanah Thanks, we really appreciate the support. Know that we are here for you, and a good number of us are testing equipment religiously at the Sound Pure Studios. Our knowledgebase (most of which is in our heads) is always just a phone call away. If you want to get real honest recommendations and advice, we are here for you, and you can start to avoid the forums now! More videos are on the way... we are pushing as hard as we possibly can!
I don't think they sound that much alike. The ADL lets a lot more highs through and is not as tight and smooth sounding as the LA 2A. Kind a disappointed : (
@potsy540 Are you serious? Well, if you really feel that way, you better make sure if you ever get a Vintage LA2A that it is not refurbished at all... the refurbished units sound like the ADL (the way that LA2A's sounded when they were new). There's something to be said for the cloudy sound of an old unit that hasn't had work done on it, but unfortunatley, with that comes reliability concerns at the very least, and poor compressor performance issues (because the opts are so far out of spec).
@fastforward26 Well, here's the thing- guitar amps are designed to distort, and mic preamps typically are not. If you push a guitar amp to the point of distortion, it is typically this "broken up" sound that provides it the distinction. For mic preamps, many of them "hit a wall" of distortion, and are really designed to be used in a clearer/cleaner way. However, some do break up nicer than others. Many of the tube preamps for example, do a little better. Check out our Phoenix on Guitars vid.
color? i'd say its the opposite....it is more or less color less or trasparent witch would be amazing for a limiter for extream compression. this is coming from somebody that wants preamps that color like crazy like a old tube guitar amp only for a mic, why don't they make stuff like that for cheap? at least as cheap as a nice guitar amp.....they all are about being as transparent as posible....i want mic preamps that you can drive the tubes to distortion if you wanted to like a guiar amp
@fastforward26 To that extent more higher end pieces are going to be delivering the performance you are describing. Due to the cost of buildind serious microphone preamps, I suppose, most designers are interested in preserving detail, than they are in delivering over-the-top colors. To achieve that sort of thing, there are a hige variety of very inexpensive plug-ins. As far as in the preamps themselves, if you reach the point of distortion, they do start to break up.
@soundpurestudios problem is i use analog only untill its mixed and then master it in the computer witch i hate i just don't have a analog LA or reverb. but one day. but i hate putting it into the computer i loose so much when i put it threw my delta 1010 sound card so i can't use plugings. i have a art tube mp and i hear the tube isn't doing what its supose to do but you can defineltly tell it does something (the transits are slow and theres much more compresson as you push it)
@fastforward26 Not 100% sure we understand your issue fully- once you make a pass (in tracking), the damage done by your older a/d converter is simply that. Processing them inside the box shouldn't create a tremendous amount of additional loss. You should really try some of the amp simulation products out there if you are looking for special effects. Digidesign Eleven is one that a lot of guys use, for example.
@soundpurestudios one pass = way to much loss and NO bass, and NO realistic sound. a/b digital to analog and its just amazing how much better my tascam tsr8 reel to reel is to my maudio delta 1010 witch is one of the more expensive ones out there! i'll never go to digital again, ever i grew up listening to analog recordings and was allways like how do they do that and then bam! i got the reel to reel and i was like 'oh, they just used a mic and accually picked up the signal'
i've tested lots of different digital recorders new and old and there all below 'the threshold' of quality for me, but at the end its all about the music and i've made songs for 10 years on digital and it just fine but i'm finally moving on up! :)
@fastforward26 Understood. Well, not all digital is bad digital. But, if you are used to decent analog gear, then you will definitely need to make at least a small investment in digital gear if you want it to perform at a very high level. In that regard, it hasn't changed since you started in this 10 years ago, but now, the technology has improved a lot, and you don't have to invest nearly as much. If you want to discuss your options, please don't hesitate to email audio@soundpure(dot)com
@soundpurestudios thanks :) the only digital thing I will ever want ever again is a guitar looping pedal and the highest a/d converters so i can put the master tape to cd without any proccessing digitally. and I HOPE theres a 'good' digital somewhere out there because you can't buy new tape recorders any more its so sad...i've even demo'd waves plugins and if you turn the attack and release to 0 on there compressors and then bring the threshold down your going to get yo sound demolished
@fastforward26 We can absolutely help you with both of those things. The digital world remains very much a "pay for what you get" world. You will have to spend some $ to be happy. Really great digital exposes lots of detail, which means if you aren't feeding it first class analog signals, then it will reveal just that. As far as guitar pedals, our guitar department has some great options (separate set of professionals that work over there), and are available at pedals@soundpure(dot)com
@soundpurestudios one last post about this........using a bottom of the line preamp.....on digital...you HAVE to proccess the signal to get it to sound good....(mostly drums) ....and on analog .....you don't! upgrades the preamp to like endless amounts of money cause its all there . anyways i've recorded like ALOT of songs for 10 years on digital with every plugin i could find and then i get the reel to reel, no effects yet, just eq and it sounds better than anything i've recorded so far DRY
@soundpurestudios However THANK YOU very much for your support when you didn't even have to talk to me! I hope you don't think i'm trying to argue i'm just obsesed with audio recording and love to talk about it! :)
@soundpurestudios maybe i'll just run it threw a couple art tube mp channles if i want that sound as i don't have any money! lol anyways nice talking to you.
what I mean by you can hear the new one sounding compressed more is that the "K" sylablos in the vocal track stick out like as if it made it before the attack kicked in. the older one levels them all out and sounds the same volume as the rest of the vocal track..........ah screw it! i knew what i was talking about the first two times i listened..on the third time i listened i can't tell a difference anymore lol :) either way i would LOVE to own either one :)
@fastforward26 We do apprecaite you taking the time to listen- as you listen without reference to which one is which, it does become difficult to tell them apart. In a couple of our more recent shootouts, we have hidden the results (and only let people contact us for them them), and it's very interesting to see.. people can sometimes hear differences, but often reserve their opinion about which one is which. We apprecaite you following up.
@fastforward26 Thanks for watching and listening! Not sure we fuly understand what you are hearing (since we felt there were actually slightly less artifacts of compression on the newer unit- the opposite of what your comment suggested), but if it would be of any help to extended listening, you can always e-mail us, audio@soundpure(dot)com and we can get you high resolution files or answer any questions that you might have. Thanks for checking it out!
@yappertrap We absolutely love records, and tape as well. That being said, the LA2A and The ADL1000 are identicial signal paths, with identical tube compliments. The saturation of the tube is identical. The difference was primarily due to the age of the original which meant that it was not performing up to its like-new specification. That's not a "vintage" aspect per say, but really more of a "need of an overhaul" aspect. Not to say you can't like that effect, you are obviously entitled!
@silvercelli no la 2a sounds the same so how can you make this assumption. This is why CLA has 6 of them. adl is simply another compressor trying to bring a new taste to the table. All mixing is perceptive. so then i have the right to say a 200 art compressor beats both :)
@MattDeatherage it appears that we are in virtual agreement here... you agree that no LA2A sounds the same... I agree that if THIS la2a happened to be freshly refurbished it would sound like the ADL, or at least extremely close to it. You are right, the old ones all behave a little bit inconsistently. The reason no one would ever think that an ART was "as good" is because it's a mud box, but YES, on certain recordings it could be the right thing.... so who can argue with that? Not fighting :)
@silvercelli Everyone is entitled to their opinion, we really can't argue with what you hear. It's more that the underlying premise of calling one world class compressor "better" than another may be a bit over-simplified. 90% mistakenly think "vintage" is better before they've even pressed play. The reality is that whether one is "better" will be entirely dependent on the final mix- something that retains a bit more of the original detail and complexities will often hold up better in the mix.
@silvercelli Better how? Given these are production tools, it is imperative that we not jump to the conclusion that listening to things in absolute isolation one is better or worse than another. This is not in defense of any one product, just that differences provide options. You can say La2a is warmer but also muddier & noisier, and the ADL is cleaner, more articulate, and more op-it really depends on the production need. The "better" La2A, if refurb'd would actually sound more like the ADL
ADL lacks the the larger and taller robustness of the LA2A without any sonic argument.. LA2A alos has a clarity, that the ADL does not have. Sonically these two units are so far apart its like comparing the the blind to the sighted. wait the blind can see more (sometimes) to the sighted. Ok like comparing the lame to the a marathon runner. Hows that! No bias here as I have an ADL. just cant afford the LA2A yet.
@dragonlee1bfed Let's just say we've tested more than just 1 LA2A. We must respectfully disagree with what you are saying. The variance between clean to ailing vintage units can be wide. The ADL is reminiscent of the freshest vintage LA2A's that we have encountered- essentially if you can imagine the way the LA2A should sound, or did sound when it was new. This particular La2a needed a lot of TLC, and sounded more sluggish, noisy as a result. One mans "warm" is another mans "muddy" I guess.
@soundpurestudios I'm going to have to agree with dragon. The ADL has a certain transparency and brightness that the LA-2A doesn't, but I'm digging the warmth and compression character of the LA-2A more.
@FoxyMoxyRoxy333 Cool. To each his own. We find the added transparency to be more versatile, in most cases, particularly when stacking tracks in a mix. That's why most engineers try to ensure that their vintage units are refurbed to modern spec (like the ADL), so they aren't sluggish/muddy in a mix. But the differences are certainly a matter of preference and taste, can't argue with you there. Our regret is not conducting the shootout blindly- it's nice to listen without knowing what's what.
@fendertwin777 seriously? Is a comment like that supposed tp help in some way? This video was posted almost two years ago. We welcome constructive criticism, but this seemed a little bit more on the hostile side of things. We work really hard to educate the world about the best audio equipment currently being produced. Sorry if you find our approach imperfect to your taste, but a lot of work goes into these videos, and release them for free for the public with the hope that they're enjoyed
@EnveBeats If you can't hear the difference of quality gear as compared to cheap gear and/opr plug=ins, it isn't a good investment for YOU to be making. But, whether the ultimate medium is tape, record, CD/DVD, Blueray, Radio, or MP3, if you track and produce an album with cheap garbage, the product will stink of those products, even on a lower resolution medium.
ppl lets be serious,we dont even listen to music at 44.1khz anymore(not like thats that good anyway lol) ,spend all this money and all your hard work goes right to a crappy mp3 lol what a waste
@EnveBeats Fortunately some people not only care about the sound of things that they track, produce, and master, but that sound actually trickles down to what can indeed be discerned and heard on lower resolutions. The MP3 comment is not a new one, but the reality is that if you think you can achieve the same quality of MP3 master by tracking through a $200 audio interface with some free plug-ins, you'll have to hear the difference that great gear can make- even when MP3 is the ultimate medium.
second time listening to this vid and i'm not certified engineer, But there is No deffrence and there is a diffrence Lol...ok the LA-2A from what i heard here...I'm in love Big Time. They have the same warmth, push, sound..But the Feel is what separates an original and why that high profile client asked for it...I listen to this on my DT 770 PRO. If I had the Money I would own BOTH of-em ADL 1500 Clean sound and LA2A has a Very Pleasant after TASTE hope i discribe well enough. Post More Gear :)
Both are great. The original has much better lyric representation for male vocal, sounds warmer. Nothing stands in the way of getting the message. ADL has a bit of a pointed top. The female vocal is better with the ADL here. LA2 is just not working with the voice and the lyric properly. Thanks for your video!
@GuantanamoDance Thanks for the comment and critical listen... well put... in the end the best choice will be determined by what is best for the instrument, the track, and the music (in the mix)
@AmpsforBuddha Indeed- you will not we are conducting the more recent shootouts on youtube blindly. The shootout was most certainly blind for us when we did it. Good questions- we agree with your comment.
Linux with Ardour and the LASPA plugins are all I'll ever need or ever want. They get the job done very well, and sound great. We can all thank Steve Harris for the gift.
@analyzingfunny Plugings are great- recall-ability for one is worth a lot. We use a tremendous number of plug-ins, particularly when the budget doesn't dictate going out of the box. But, having had the luxury of comparing numerous La2A plug-ins side by side this beauty, and there was no comparison. There are certain behaviors that have been successfully cloned, but certain harmonic interactions that have not. You won't hear us bash plug-ins, but there's a reason we have both.
If you listen closely to the sax piece, you can actually pick out the air release from the keys. It's almost like you are listening from inside the sax. Very neat effect when you are trying to induce a psycho-acoustc visual between two speakers. I have used both the ADL1000 and the LA-2A. If the question is, which unit is better now, then the answer is the ADL-1000 because it is easier to obtain, therefore it's sonic signature is the sound of today.
@MrDjNickone You should request the high resolution audio files from us, we will gladly send them along. Youtube bit compression badly effects the ability to really critically compare, and if that's the difference you are hearing through youtube, it's possible that you will feel differently after listening to the high resolution files. We completely know the effect that you are referencing, but fail to hear it with the ADL, and have very many high dollar compressors here at Sound Pure.
@CHANNELDEREK Very well said. Thanks for the comment and the critical listen. You could certainly expect to hear some differences between vintage LA2A's of different age, history, or maintenance. At the end of the day, what works is the "best" for any one given job. Thanks again for commenting on the video, and please let us know if we can ever help in any way.
@soundpurestudios what I wonder though is how much the youtube bit compression effects the sound as well. ;-) thanks for putting this video up though. I am subscribing.
@flux302 Thanks! Youtube compression certainly does affect the sound- keep in mind that we always readily provide any high resolution audio clips if you would like to hear them. We record most everything that we do in the studio at 24-bit, 88.2k. Please let us know if we can ever help with your recording or guitar needs, in any way!
I'm not a pro, but it seems to me as the vintage one is a bit more creamy, the copied version is a little more crisp. I think both keep the "dimensions" of the sound really nicely. In a world where money is not a problem, I would get both of them to be honest, else I would get the new version without the slightest feeling of compromise.
@panospylar Thanks a lot for the comment... for a 'non pro' you sure have done a fantastic job of summarizing exactly what we also heard here, and what probably failed to make as clear as you did here in the video. You are 100% on point with what we think... the newer unit has a certain detail retention that could be very useful in the mix, but the subtle differences between them are certainly a matter of taste- both fantastic tools. Thanks for the great comment and careful listen.
@panospylar I agree I was thinking the same. sounds like the detail in the highs seem just a tad more present in the newer model. I like em though they both sound fantastic.
@flux302 Certainly a matter of preference, but they are definitely cut from the same cloth. If that older unit had been recently refurnished, and if the compression amounts were calibrated to be the same, the differences would be real difficult to distinguish- something nice about getting a new piece of gear is that it is a known entity. The old ones all behave a little differently, but that's part of the fun/risk/vibe of vintage, I guess.
la2a sounds better. Seriously, from your demeanor in the video it seems your sheepishly desperate to make AD equipment god's gift to all unknowing. Anthony demaria this, Anthony demaria that, on and on. Your probably secretly dreaming about him before you go to sleep at night.
Vintage units are fine if serviced. If your "engineers" couldn't hear a difference they need to have their ears checked.
@desol333 What about YouTube makes people leave their manners at home? Did you listen to what we said? Blind tests are a lot more fun, because people don't make nearly as bold statements, they can still hear differences, but they are a lot more afraid to say which is which, or which is better!
Stating one is better than another is actually poor form if you really engineer. There were differences, yes- we couldn't get the compressors to line up because the old one was out of calibration.
@desol333 FYI, the purpose of the video was not only to shoot the two out, but to introduce the world to ADL- If you actually have a Vintage unit, he's the best guy around to take care of it- the old opto's need VERY frequent cleaning or repair.
Do you have some sort of problem with Anthony? He's an incredible guy, that not a lot of people know about- really unsure why people such as yourself feel some deep need to use the comment portion of youtube as a forum to attack.
@soundpurestudios Stating that one is better than the other means you actually have testicles and can make a choice. La2a's are for lumberjacks, to record music that people actually enjoy listening to. Infomercial shootouts, are for used car salesmen that enjoy s.e.x in abandoned public bathrooms. Demaria is smart, in that, he can build something by himself and then convince another individual to waste their own time, by promoting it on youtube...or to spend 20k on a clone 670.
@desol333 Given that we actually engineer records here, stating that any piece of equipment is "better than another" is a real risk, and often an indication of amateurism, or at the very least short-sidedness. Until a mix is in a finished state, that's a tough thing to say. Noting differences is a sign of a good ear, unfortunately siding with the Vintage piece is an indication of making a safe stance on youtube- clearly that's the easier thing to say since that's the expectation
@soundpurestudios Having a 'firm' opinion of what one likes(making decisions), indicates that one has no other motivation other than...they like that unit better for what they are using it for....unlike the wishy washy opinion that comes from the motivation to promote or advertise something.
@desol333 From your attitude, and demeanor, it is clear that you have not used the ADL1500, and certainly not the ADL 670. Perhaps you should reserve your commentary for equipment with which you have real experience. If you don't like our free videos (made with great time, energy, and cost) for the purpose of educating people about things in which they may not have experience, I sincerely recommend that you don't watch them. An expert such as yourself clearly doesn't need our vids :)
Listening to the ridiculous engineers at the end is hilarious... The originals sound far better. None of them have a clue and its obvious the video is INTENDED to sell the new units.
But what do I know... I just own a fully serviced perfect vintage example and know what to listen for. Even on you tube...
This video is for people who do NOT own or use the vintage models regularly. If serviced they are EXTREMELY reliable...
At least you ran some brass through it.... Its monster on horns
@whitepapagold First of all, the video was created when you tube limited it to 10 minutes. There was a 20 minute conversation that took place. The conversation was edited yes, but nothing that was said was untrue.
Agreed freshly serviced units are reliable, but most are not freshly serviced and most users don't even know what to listen for when they start to misbehave or have problems.
Our recommendations relate to the users that watch these vids...
@whitepapagold One other interesting tidbit is that fact that when we actually conducted the shootout blindly (not on youtube where everyone can sing the praises of the vintage unit when they know which is the one that they are listening to) a number of "vintage lovers" like yourself believed that the new unit was the vintage one. It's easy to talk about how great what you have is and how bad our engineers are when you are listening to a fully exposed "result" of a comprehensive blind test.
@whitepapagold Glad you found the engineers comical, in that group were two grammy nominated engineers, among other very well-reputed engineers. If the result is selling new units, that's not a bad thing. With the exception of extremely reputably serviced vintage units (there aren't that many guys left out there that can do this), reliability, consistency, noise, are often problems. Novice studio users wouldn't even know they had a problem- new units are MUCH safer for most people
@konjunktion26 Hey, thanks a LOT for the support, we are doing our best here, and why I'm not sure we are perfect, we are trying our hardest. It's nice to hear from you what you think. Thanks again for the comment!
The vintage la2a seems to bring out some sort of upper high harmonic distortion in the video while the ADL "sounds" just like the la2a, but the color in the video just isnt the same as the la2a.
@richardgaas Thanks for the comment and critical listen- keep in mind, it is impossible to dial the two compressors in, because the sensitivity of the original LA2A was a bit non-linear and erratic, but we did our best to get them close, but the reality is that they were compressing at different amounts, so differences were inevitable in this short demo. Really appreciate the watch, and keep in mind that we do have high res files available if you'd like to do further analysis!
@soundpurestudios absoutely.. I was actually reading somwhere that the t4 optical unit in the la2a degenerates over time and that makes it harder to gain stage and get the proper amount of compression going. Apparently, the manufacturer recommended switching out the optical units every couple of years. There are some la2as that have never had their units switched! and according to what I was reading that makes it harder to match to any other unit!
@richardgaas Very, very well put, thanks for adding this important detail- and quite honestly, this is the "unreliability" that we often refer to about these units. But, there are numerous vintage-obsessed guys on here than don't recognize or understand these types of issues or limitations. Certainly when comparing a brand new LA2A replica to a vintage one that has degraded opto's or other components makes it pretty hard to match them for a test like this- we certainly did our best with it...
@soundpurestudios absolutely.. I was actually reading somwhere that the t4 optical unit in the la2a degenerates over time and that makes it harder to gain stage and get the proper amount of compression going. Apparently, the manufacturer recommended switching out the optical units every couple of years. There are some la2as that have never had their units switched! and according to what I was reading that makes it harder to match to any other unit!
unreliability isn't an issue if you have a GOOD tech on your payroll, & in a place like Sound Pure, you should have a good tech on call all or at least most of the time...my dad (I'm 25 years-old as I type this, he's like 30 Years & 6 Months older than I am, making HIM like 56 years-old at the end of next month)....& my dad's a vintage Fender Amp Tech & right now he's probably the best vintage Fender Amp tech in the United States...
@thedeem0N Very cool, Glad to hear that your Dad is a superb tech- perhaps you are in a unique situation to take advantage of some vintage gear. Unfortunately, most of our clients, and most of the people that watch this video are not in the same position that you are in. Many of the studios these days can't afford to keep a tech on payroll anymore, and most of the people buying gear these days are home studio guys or project studios. They just don't have the access for tech maintenance u do.
@tutakar We hate to see the way that this thread is working out, mostly because we did far more tests than we could have possibly consolidated to video, and just universally agreed that the ADL had a bit more preservation of the original sonic info, which we preferred after many tests. Obviously, we feel like the ADL performed better in a technical sense - that being said, we completely appreciate everyone's opinion on the tracks that we displayed here. Mud can be desirable on solo channels!!
@tutakar Thanks a lot for the comment, we appreciate the participation. There's something to be said for vintage vibe, as there is for modern reliability. I'd personally love a 60's Vette but wouldn't drive it to work every day, but no one can question the color in that exhaust! :) Anyway, thanks again!!
@dkillian12 vintage one was Fuller and more natural the adl was more squeezed but it was still nice, thats what i hear...this is judge on the female w/Gtr bleed. If i had the money and clients with big budgets ill go w/vintage. I love my adl 600. Does any body know a good converter to look into. I have a 003rack and Alesis master control?
@CoGnAcDiPpEd1 No problem, we can agree to disagree on the compressor! Anyhow, how many channels of converters are you after, and is sample rate a problem? There are a variety of great options depending on the budget and the sample rate requirements- one problem you will face is that interfacing with a 003, your best bet is probably ADAT lightpipe, but with PT9 you no longer have this limitation. Have you looked at the Lynx Converters for Multichannel? Lavry/Mytek are both great, but more $
@soundpurestudios Lynx 8 ch or RMEBaby face? and i do have pt9 ive tested my 003 againts my Alesis Master Control Board and 003 is more cleaneri on the budget so the Lynx 8 will be my max im using the imac 21.5 so im limited no pci, let me know THX
@CoGnAcDiPpEd1 If you can fit it into the budget, the Lynx Aurora 8 + FW combo is absolutely killer for your situation. You are talking about a different level of overall clarity, detail, and precisions over the other alternatives. The Baby Face is a very nice box, and very well priced, but just not quite what the Lynx is... We'd love to talk to you more about your precise needs, usage situation, and even let you know about a short deal we have running on both the Lynx + FW and Babyface!
@soundpurestudios im looking at the dynamic range, and the lynx beats them by 117db out...But the AD on the Apogee Symphony IO is 120 and DA is 129...? am i on the right track? as in the babyface my alesis master control is 114 out and RME is 115...? i have the Alesis and 003Rack and as i grow in my mixes i can here my loses i use Ozone 4 Dither but...not enough. I want a noticeable change. I think Symphony IO is the answer...?But like Short Circuit said "need more input".... Im Listening....?
@CoGnAcDiPpEd1 First of all, you can't read into specs too much (or at all)... there is no central testing facility for these things, which means specs rely on a company's "self-reporting" these technical numbers- you know what that means- the numbers are pretty much worthless. Any serious testing is done by critical listening, rather than spec analysis. Symphony is nice too, but those specs tell you nothing, and of course it is much more money. Call us, we should have a discussion!
@dkillian12 We certainly don't always put down the vintage gear- have you seen our video series - we have over 300 HD movies already, some of which praise vintage equipment. If you can hear the difference between the gear, good for you, so can we. 99.9% of the people can't, in the mix forget about it. Saying that we flat out lie couldn't be further from the truth. You want to make a single vintage piece a definitive test, then you are missing the point of all these videos.
@soundpurestudios One vintage piece of gear sounds DIFFERENT to another vintage piece of gear, even if they were built the same year. 30-50 year old equipment ages differently, for a lot of reasons. The bottom line is in many of our tests, modern replicas sound as close or similar to the vintage we shoot them up against as one vintage piece sounds to another. Saying that the LA2a sounds MUCH smoother than the ADL1000 is sort of like saying this U47 from 1960 is WAY better than a U47 from 61
Anyone suggesting that we lie has some sort of problem with our approach- the approach that requires that we distill things down into understandable and digestible formats (short videos) in which people can watch and learn. If you want to scrutinize what we've done, please feel free to create your own videos. Others can be their own judge for what they are hearing, and we even provide ANYONE with the high res files- how is that lying? We are trying to do something cool here.
dude why do you always put down the vintage gear? And if you guys can't hear the HUGE difference between the two compressors you don't deserve to be in a studio.the la-2a sounded much warmer and smoother than the adl 1000. and you said there was no difference between the neve 1073 and the vintech x73i which those are very similar but still i can hear subtle differences. so for you to flat out lie to people so the will buy your gear. that just really gets to me and all you don;t know nothing..
dude why do you always put down the vintage gear? And if you guys can't hear the HUGE difference between the two compressors you don't deserve to be in a studio.the la-2a sounded much warmer and smoother than the adl 1000. and you said there was no difference between the neve 1073 and the vintech x73i which those are very similar but still i can hear subtle differences. so for you to flat out lie to people so the will buy your gear. that just really gets to me and all you don;t know nothing...
IMO u guys really seemed to have missed the fact that the vintage unit sounds warmer. I couldn't even believe my ears when one of you said you couldn't tell the difference. I am not saying the new unit is a poor facsimile... it's decent for sure. But that warmth is not there. I mean come on... it's not even a matter of opinion... you GOTTA be able to hear that warmth. I think this is what you are calling "muddy". But it's not really muddy -- i sensed no detail loss. The new unit is brighter tho.
Sorry, guys. That last comment was a bit harsh. You just shouldn't have to detract from a comparable compressor to be confident in the fact that you've made a great one on your own. I think you would be wise to let the ADL's unique sound stand on its own rather than trying to leverage it against the potential problems of a vintage LA2A.
@davidhrivnak Vintage units DO have problems. The older they ge,t the more likely the problems are. Why does that make our commentary disingenuous. We have tremendous experience in this area, and perhaps you do too. They are different from one another, but it's a far cry from one or the other sounding wildly grossly better than one another. The bottom line is that people don't come out and make those statements when the listen to the two side-by-side blindly.
We honestly don't care which one people prefer. The vintage unit is 3-times the prices on a per-channel basis, and sorry, they do have issues, and don't come with a warranty. A good one can work many years without problems but over time, as things fail you will be replacing them with new parts, most likely the identical new parts currently being used, built, and supplied to the industry by Anthony. This is a defense or anything, we certainly appreciate the commentary, nice thread.
Honestly, your persistent criticisms of the problems associated with some old LA2A units are a bit ridiculous. I do appreciate the time you've put into responding to all of these comments, but I have to say that I don't like the ham-fisted way you've attempted to dismiss the venerable vintage LA2A compressor. You might respond to this with the fact that you love the LA2A and only wish it was as reliable and crisp as the product you're selling, but it's a little late for a tasteful retreat.
@davidhrivnak This is the reason all the shootouts that we will conduct from here on out will be blind. People are simply affected by what they read. Perhaps you really do like the sound of the LA2A better, but those of us that have listened extensively here blindly have come to a different conclusion. The ADL is a modern replica down to the replcement transformers, caps, exact tubes, and his opto is the known replacement when an opto goes bad in a vintage unit.
Whoa! The LA2A sounds MUCH better! The ADL compressor sounded really good, but in a side-by-side comparison it loses out hard. There is something tangibly richer and warmer in the sound from the LA2A, and it's more upfront and 3-dimensional (I know that technically doesn't make any sense, but I can't think of a better way to say it). I would much rather deal with occasional repairs than have a reliable second-rate sound. Thank you for posting this video! It was truly informative.
@davidhrivnak Wow, Really? We are actually shocked to hear your reaction, but thankful for your comment nonetheless- not at all the impression that we got, and you only saw about 1% of the side-by-side testing that we did here. We found that the ADL actually had better detail, and a more up front sound, and that the LA2A sounded just a touch muddier to us. The reality is that if you refurbed the old LA2A they would be exceptionally close- the ADL is like a LA2A would be out of the box!
@soundpurestudios Yeah, really! I might have a different opinion if I had heard the other 99% of your test, but I have to rely on the part you posted here. I was honestly very surprised by how much better the LA2A sounded in this demo. The poorly recorded (or badly EQed) guitar part in the final example did sound thinner on the ADL, but the LA2A was only as muddy as the original recording. As a side note, I think it's really cool that you guys personally respond to so many of these comments.
@hamburg58 Sincerely, thanks for the comment by the way. Since we have extensive experience with both of these, as you obviously do as well, it's nice to hear someone else chime in.
@hamburg58 Sorry you feel that we are dissing in the LA2A- it is indeed a remarkable tool, however, there are a lot of lemons out there, particularly on the used market. We have seen a lot of "problem children" come through here, and in fact, many of the units out there have issues- if you get them repaired, and up to speed, they are likely to provide many years of reliable work, but there's no substitute for a new piece of gear for day-in day-out reliability. A Warranty can be worth a lot.
@ColdGripHandle Thanks for the comment... We pretty much fundamentally agree that the subtlety will be pretty hard to discern in a mix, and that both give you that rich, smooth, La2A character that people love on things like Vox, Bass, Sax, etc. Thanks again for posting your comment and your support of Sound Pure. Please let us know if/how we can help in any way with your studio!
I liked the sound of the 1500. It sounds a lot more consistent, but I gotta say the "attitude" of the LA 2A sounded a lil more natural to me. And it felt as though the track was breathing and wasn't perfect. The 1500 sounded great though.
@glict Thanks for the comment. There definitely are differences between the sonic characters/artifacts, particularly that the older one produces... because it is noisier and its overall calibration is a bit suspect, there is definitely more loss, and that certainly creates a "smoothness" associated with that. The 1500 seems to retain a little bit more detail, and basically do a better job at loss less compression, but both have that LA2A smoothness and vibe. Thanks for the comment!
I've got to agree with one of the previous posters - as nice as the ADL is the LA2A has it. the transient response against some of the more popping moments on the vocal or the kick clicks of the sax (i know - not loved but it's their!!) just sound "sweeter". There is a more euphonic quality even through the Youtube compression! Seems a shame because I'm in the market for something like the ADL because I dont want the headache of older gear!!
@narcoman2 We have ADL's in both of our two recording studios and have simply not looked back. They are the go-to box. We got tired of the headaches ourselves, and that's why we went this way. You could get an old one and have it meticulously refurbished but I'm seriously afraid that what you'd end up with is the ADL. The older units have idiosyncrasies, vibe (as well as noise and distortion), but you never know what you are going to get. For reliability, this is the best option we've found
@narcoman2 Keep in mind, that neither of these units were calibrated to eachother- since we couldn't trust the meter of the old unit at all, we just tried to do our best in a very fast setup on camera... there was far more elaborate "off camera" testing between the ADL, the Vintage La2a, and a bunch of other compressors, this captured the compression style better than any of the others we tried, but less noise/distortion/funky behavior than the vintage
@tramoliter Monumental? If you have experience with Vintage equipment, you will notice that this LA-2A sounds like it's in need of a refurb, whereas the ADL sounds like a vintage LA2A would out of the box. If you took a spread of Vintage LA2A's like this one, and Vintage LA2A's that have been completely overhauled and refurbed, you would find the differences negligible. Is it possible the warmth you are hearing could be attributable to the higher noise floor, and treble loss on the old one?
@soundpurestudios perhaps then you should have done a shootout between the clone and a new LA 2. David Bowie did a comparison between the old and the new LA 2A and liked the new one better.
@tramoliter Maybe we will... the problem with the old ones though is that they are at varying degrees of repair, often in need of new tubes, sometimes have transformers that are on the edge of failure... tend to be noisier depending on the power supplies, etc. A nicely refurbished older LA2A will be extremely close to the sound of the ADL1000. Typically, what people hear as differences are related to noise and distortion associated with these issues, rather than what the compressor is doing.
@hibyc Exactly, the subtle differences between them are certainly a matter of choice. We feel like the ADL puts you in the ballpark, but at the same time provides a much more reliable alternative tp a vintage one. If the vintage unit was perfectly recapped, calibrated, cleaned up, and generally overhauled, they would sound extremely close to one another. Some people like the slightly soupey-sounding response of the vintage, but others think it's a bit too muddy-sounding. It's subtle though.
I really liked this video. I did hear very slight differences between the two units on the male vocal demo. I felt that there was a slight clarity in the midrange in the older unit that I didn't hear in the replica. I thought they both sounded great however. Cool vid=-)
@thedukewestern Thanks a lot for the nice comment and the critical listen. There definitely are some subtle differences here, but you can expect that even between two old units- so much variance happens over units depending on the kind of age that they see.
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hi can u tell me why use hardware compressors i notice they are in major studios because i dont want to over compress because i use Plugins to mix
thatniggbeme7 1 week ago in playlist Audio Compressors / Limiters
Both compressors sounded fine, but different. I suspect that the clone is designed to mimic a pristine restored La2a, but since you were comparing it to a used and abused La2a, there would be differences. I would be interested to hear a comparison with a restored la2a, and see what differences there would be. Thanks for posting, a very interesting video.
TheThethinker101 2 weeks ago
@TheThethinker101 Thanks for your comment- you are absolutely spot-on. We absolutely should try and find a well-restored La2a to do the exact same testing. Unfortunately, most people aren't willing to let their hands off of a well-restored one!! We will be on the lookout though, great idea.
soundpurestudios 2 weeks ago
with that been said the ADL1500 was "SLIGHTLY" brighter the vocals had a bit more presences the ADL1500 probably grabs faster although it had the same settings.
makerKID5 3 weeks ago
@makerKID5 Sure... actually, there was slightly more haze/mud on the old one, since it hadn't been refurb'd, so you are hearing more openness and reveal from the original track (an attribute of a technically superior performing compressor- less artifacts of compression) through the ADL. Bottom line is that this is mostly due to the age of the La2a and could be corrected so that they would be very in line with eachother with refurbishment and calibration. Tonally, we felt they were quite close
soundpurestudios 3 weeks ago
If it works it works I appreciate you guys taking the time out to do these comparisons! but I have to agree with your philosophy these units not only the ones in this particular test but in other videos as well sound remarkably similar yet people insist on commenting that there is a HUGE recognizable difference my ears must not work correctly, the Vintage vs. New, Anolag vs. Digital debate is old if it works it works these same people probably argue about ITB & OTH summing to seriously people?
makerKID5 3 weeks ago
The La-2a sounds much better, dont need studio monitor to hear that. The 1500 sounds big(transfo, tubes) but it doesnt sound right and it doesnt have that nice La2a texture. I dont like the attack and release, and the sound is very hazy. And i think you are compressing more with the 1500 dont look at the meter, use your young ears,the VU is probably not calibrated on the La-2a. Even with aged caps, most old La-2a sound very good.
YouKazeTV 1 month ago
@YouKazeTV Got to be honest, even in this comparison your comment seems to be internally in conflict. The "hazy" one is actually the La2a if one can make such a statement comparing these two. If the La2a was refurb'd you'd have heard negligible difference. That being said, yes, most of the difference had more to do with "calibration" as you've suggested, and compression engagement/release points than the actual tonal differences between the units. Tonally, they do achieve similar things.
soundpurestudios 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
byouno93 1 month ago
LA2A is AMAZING!!!
403PoserExposer 1 month ago
@403PoserExposer ADL1000, ADL1500, also amazing!!
soundpurestudios 1 month ago
Theres a big sound Biffrents
LotsApapa1 1 month ago
@LotsApapa1 OK, as mentioned in the video, the differences in compression engagement (due to the sloppy control tolerances on the old unit) meant that the compressors were engaging a bit differently. However, the tonal similarities are certainly there.
soundpurestudios 1 month ago
listening on Sennheiser HD600s, the LA2a is just better i think, it sounds more natural and "right" if that makes sense
Equestional 1 month ago
@Equestional well, we are super hesitant to use the terms "better" to describe thigns in this context... since making this video, we've determined that delivering videos in the "blind" shootout format is far more effective and makes for far better conversation. In the end, there is no perfect tool for any one job, but there is no doubt that the ADL performs as a freshly refurbished la2a would (given that he is one of the premier guys that cleans only la2a's up)
soundpurestudios 1 month ago
I like the LA2A... Little more Beefy around 250... Gives male vocal a bit more depth... and Female voice bigness....
marios7480 1 month ago
@marios7480 Fair enough... to one ear it is more beefy, to another it is more muddy! No worries- keep in mind that given the age of the vintage units, and the varying degrees of repair and refurbishment you find them, they will vary tremendously. We actually felt that had the La2a we were testing for this one really could use some work- and if that had been done, it would have been more detailed, open, and really sound more like the ADL.
soundpurestudios 1 month ago
@soundpurestudios All objective my friend... That's the nature of what we do... LOL
marios7480 1 month ago
General conclusion from what I've heard and always keeping in mind the limitations of an internet channel:Tubes have always been superb (and always they will be) not only in sound issues but generally in anything that has to do with output power quality.
Finally I believe THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE!
TheShadow1975100 1 month ago
LA2A....I LOVE YOU!!!!
T74G 1 month ago
This is good, but what is great is the plugins. I like them better. Linux Ardour and the CALF plugins are all i need. Towd has spoken and proved it in documentary. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE! The plugins sound just as good, if not better.
analyzingfunny 1 month ago
@analyzingfunny Respectfully disagree... while plugins are getting better, they fail at producing the harmonic complexities and overtones associated with analog vacuum tube circuits. These analog behaviors can be attempted crudely, and with carying degrees of success, but plug-ins will have a hard time reaching them for many years to come. I'd love it to be the case that a $200 plug-in could behave like a $2,000 or $20,000 compressor. Unfortuantely they don't, which is why we sitll use analog
soundpurestudios 1 month ago
The sound quality on this video is terrible :/
digitalmonkeynuts 2 months ago
@digitalmonkeynuts Are you talking about our speaking? If so, sorry... if you are talking about the actual shootout, then you need to be listening at 720p. Further, as with any of our videos (because there are sonic limitations due to the youtube compression algorithm) we offer the full high resolution audio files of ANY of our videos to our customers, all you have ot do is e-mail us at audio@soundpure(dot)com. Given you are the first in 50,000 views, we are surprised to hear this comment!
soundpurestudios 2 months ago
@soundpurestudios yes the voice recording quality.
digitalmonkeynuts 1 month ago
@digitalmonkeynuts Well, as you can tell by our more recent videos we've tried to address that. The voice recording quality was not the purpose of the video, so hopefully you can look past that to ascertain the value of this kind of a shootout as others have done. We will contineu to try to improve the production quality of what we are doing while at the same time producing as much free content to the recording world out there.
soundpurestudios 1 month ago
i was watching some explicit videos on youtube and saw this video as a suggestion and clicked it. heres my 2 cents: im no professional but im guessing if someone wanted the old crappy sound of vintage equipment, they can use that. but this is 2011 im sure there's software that can do what any hardware does but even better btw, the adl 1000 sounds better. that 'character' everyone loves from old gear isnt character... it just sounds like shit nowadays but ppl call it that 'vintage' sound
bootyhd 3 months ago
@bootyhd That's an interesting perspective for sure! You can get your hands on some fabulous old gear, but the reality of it is a lot of it has problems- noise floor, maintenance issues, mechanical or physical flaws... it doesn't make it not-worth-owning, but at the price of Vintage, we have generally felt that if there are new modern alternatives that cost less, provide the same approximate sound, and have the reliability and consistency of a new piece of gear, that's a great thing...
soundpurestudios 3 months ago
the vintage unit sounded like it had smoother dynamic control and a little darker sound
quanah 3 months ago
@quanah It seems that when we called one "vintage" many on the street felt similar to you-that it was smoother and darker. In our tests (conducted blindly here), we felt that the ADL exhibited more accurate compression controls, and better retention of high-frequency information. The "vibe" was there, but the vintage unit just seemed to behave a little more erratically... but, the vintage units differ quite a lot from one to another, so tough to be scientific with any particular one of them.
soundpurestudios 3 months ago
@soundpurestudios the word "vintage" didn't sway my opinion at all. the original has a smoother release and less of a detailed/airy tone (which is why i said "darker"). darker doesn't mean better. both units have nice tone, but the original has better dynamic control. you can really hear it on the female vocals.
quanah 3 months ago
@quanah It's just funny for us- when this shootout was conducted blindly people had different frames of mind- but on youtube, everyone "loves the vintage." It's not unique to this post... people seem convinced, that Vintage (regardless of sound) must be better, and are literally looking for a way to justify that- if you really prefer one, great! On another shootout, someone liked the fact that an older preamp was noisier!! Regarding dynamic control, the vintage would literally not behave.
soundpurestudios 3 months ago
@soundpurestudios yeah a lot of people seem to find reasons to like vintage stuff. maybe they're building a vintage museum studio or something haha. i don't have any vintage gear actually. i prefer newer equipment, preferably with a warranty. great quality video btw. do you have any vids of the 'Retro Instruments' gear? i've been really interested in their products, but can't seem to find any high quality vids of their stuff
quanah 3 months ago
@quanah They really do... sometimes it's justificable, but sometimes it's not. We have always felt that if you can "get there" with a new unit your life will be simpler- save money, no maintenance, get a warranty!!
We will be engaging with the Retro stuff very soon. We would LOVE to do this kind of shootout with their gear, and think it would go a long way to helping get the world out about what they do.
Thanks for all the posts, and for posting your opinions here!
soundpurestudios 3 months ago
@soundpurestudios well i really do appreciate the quality of your vids. i like your a designs hammer vid a lot. i was really curious about that piece and at first was scouring the gearslutz forums for random opinions. after i saw your hammer vid, i thought "jeeez if there were more vids like this of gear, there would be absolutely no reason to search for opinions on sites like gearslutz".
quanah 3 months ago
@quanah Thanks, we really appreciate the support. Know that we are here for you, and a good number of us are testing equipment religiously at the Sound Pure Studios. Our knowledgebase (most of which is in our heads) is always just a phone call away. If you want to get real honest recommendations and advice, we are here for you, and you can start to avoid the forums now! More videos are on the way... we are pushing as hard as we possibly can!
soundpurestudios 3 months ago
@soundpurestudios awesome! thanks a lot!
quanah 3 months ago
I don't think they sound that much alike. The ADL lets a lot more highs through and is not as tight and smooth sounding as the LA 2A. Kind a disappointed : (
potsy540 3 months ago
@potsy540 Are you serious? Well, if you really feel that way, you better make sure if you ever get a Vintage LA2A that it is not refurbished at all... the refurbished units sound like the ADL (the way that LA2A's sounded when they were new). There's something to be said for the cloudy sound of an old unit that hasn't had work done on it, but unfortunatley, with that comes reliability concerns at the very least, and poor compressor performance issues (because the opts are so far out of spec).
soundpurestudios 3 months ago
anybody know of any mic preamps that are like how i'm discribing? like a guitar amp for a mic?
fastforward26 4 months ago
@fastforward26 your going to have to make your own take the electronics cource!
fastforward26 4 months ago
@fastforward26 Well, here's the thing- guitar amps are designed to distort, and mic preamps typically are not. If you push a guitar amp to the point of distortion, it is typically this "broken up" sound that provides it the distinction. For mic preamps, many of them "hit a wall" of distortion, and are really designed to be used in a clearer/cleaner way. However, some do break up nicer than others. Many of the tube preamps for example, do a little better. Check out our Phoenix on Guitars vid.
soundpurestudios 4 months ago
color? i'd say its the opposite....it is more or less color less or trasparent witch would be amazing for a limiter for extream compression. this is coming from somebody that wants preamps that color like crazy like a old tube guitar amp only for a mic, why don't they make stuff like that for cheap? at least as cheap as a nice guitar amp.....they all are about being as transparent as posible....i want mic preamps that you can drive the tubes to distortion if you wanted to like a guiar amp
fastforward26 4 months ago
@fastforward26 To that extent more higher end pieces are going to be delivering the performance you are describing. Due to the cost of buildind serious microphone preamps, I suppose, most designers are interested in preserving detail, than they are in delivering over-the-top colors. To achieve that sort of thing, there are a hige variety of very inexpensive plug-ins. As far as in the preamps themselves, if you reach the point of distortion, they do start to break up.
soundpurestudios 4 months ago
@soundpurestudios problem is i use analog only untill its mixed and then master it in the computer witch i hate i just don't have a analog LA or reverb. but one day. but i hate putting it into the computer i loose so much when i put it threw my delta 1010 sound card so i can't use plugings. i have a art tube mp and i hear the tube isn't doing what its supose to do but you can defineltly tell it does something (the transits are slow and theres much more compresson as you push it)
fastforward26 4 months ago
@fastforward26 Not 100% sure we understand your issue fully- once you make a pass (in tracking), the damage done by your older a/d converter is simply that. Processing them inside the box shouldn't create a tremendous amount of additional loss. You should really try some of the amp simulation products out there if you are looking for special effects. Digidesign Eleven is one that a lot of guys use, for example.
soundpurestudios 4 months ago
@soundpurestudios one pass = way to much loss and NO bass, and NO realistic sound. a/b digital to analog and its just amazing how much better my tascam tsr8 reel to reel is to my maudio delta 1010 witch is one of the more expensive ones out there! i'll never go to digital again, ever i grew up listening to analog recordings and was allways like how do they do that and then bam! i got the reel to reel and i was like 'oh, they just used a mic and accually picked up the signal'
fastforward26 4 months ago
i've tested lots of different digital recorders new and old and there all below 'the threshold' of quality for me, but at the end its all about the music and i've made songs for 10 years on digital and it just fine but i'm finally moving on up! :)
fastforward26 4 months ago
@fastforward26 Understood. Well, not all digital is bad digital. But, if you are used to decent analog gear, then you will definitely need to make at least a small investment in digital gear if you want it to perform at a very high level. In that regard, it hasn't changed since you started in this 10 years ago, but now, the technology has improved a lot, and you don't have to invest nearly as much. If you want to discuss your options, please don't hesitate to email audio@soundpure(dot)com
soundpurestudios 4 months ago
@soundpurestudios thanks :) the only digital thing I will ever want ever again is a guitar looping pedal and the highest a/d converters so i can put the master tape to cd without any proccessing digitally. and I HOPE theres a 'good' digital somewhere out there because you can't buy new tape recorders any more its so sad...i've even demo'd waves plugins and if you turn the attack and release to 0 on there compressors and then bring the threshold down your going to get yo sound demolished
fastforward26 4 months ago
@fastforward26 We can absolutely help you with both of those things. The digital world remains very much a "pay for what you get" world. You will have to spend some $ to be happy. Really great digital exposes lots of detail, which means if you aren't feeding it first class analog signals, then it will reveal just that. As far as guitar pedals, our guitar department has some great options (separate set of professionals that work over there), and are available at pedals@soundpure(dot)com
soundpurestudios 4 months ago
@soundpurestudios one last post about this........using a bottom of the line preamp.....on digital...you HAVE to proccess the signal to get it to sound good....(mostly drums) ....and on analog .....you don't! upgrades the preamp to like endless amounts of money cause its all there . anyways i've recorded like ALOT of songs for 10 years on digital with every plugin i could find and then i get the reel to reel, no effects yet, just eq and it sounds better than anything i've recorded so far DRY
fastforward26 4 months ago
@soundpurestudios However THANK YOU very much for your support when you didn't even have to talk to me! I hope you don't think i'm trying to argue i'm just obsesed with audio recording and love to talk about it! :)
fastforward26 4 months ago
@soundpurestudios maybe i'll just run it threw a couple art tube mp channles if i want that sound as i don't have any money! lol anyways nice talking to you.
fastforward26 4 months ago
what I mean by you can hear the new one sounding compressed more is that the "K" sylablos in the vocal track stick out like as if it made it before the attack kicked in. the older one levels them all out and sounds the same volume as the rest of the vocal track..........ah screw it! i knew what i was talking about the first two times i listened..on the third time i listened i can't tell a difference anymore lol :) either way i would LOVE to own either one :)
fastforward26 4 months ago
@fastforward26 We do apprecaite you taking the time to listen- as you listen without reference to which one is which, it does become difficult to tell them apart. In a couple of our more recent shootouts, we have hidden the results (and only let people contact us for them them), and it's very interesting to see.. people can sometimes hear differences, but often reserve their opinion about which one is which. We apprecaite you following up.
soundpurestudios 4 months ago
all i can tell is that the old one you couldn't tell it was compressing witch is good but the new one you could tell
fastforward26 4 months ago
@fastforward26 Thanks for watching and listening! Not sure we fuly understand what you are hearing (since we felt there were actually slightly less artifacts of compression on the newer unit- the opposite of what your comment suggested), but if it would be of any help to extended listening, you can always e-mail us, audio@soundpure(dot)com and we can get you high resolution files or answer any questions that you might have. Thanks for checking it out!
soundpurestudios 4 months ago
to my ears the la2a was miles better.i also love records and the sound of tape saturation.
yappertrap 4 months ago
@yappertrap We absolutely love records, and tape as well. That being said, the LA2A and The ADL1000 are identicial signal paths, with identical tube compliments. The saturation of the tube is identical. The difference was primarily due to the age of the original which meant that it was not performing up to its like-new specification. That's not a "vintage" aspect per say, but really more of a "need of an overhaul" aspect. Not to say you can't like that effect, you are obviously entitled!
soundpurestudios 4 months ago
@silvercelli no la 2a sounds the same so how can you make this assumption. This is why CLA has 6 of them. adl is simply another compressor trying to bring a new taste to the table. All mixing is perceptive. so then i have the right to say a 200 art compressor beats both :)
MattDeatherage 5 months ago
@MattDeatherage it appears that we are in virtual agreement here... you agree that no LA2A sounds the same... I agree that if THIS la2a happened to be freshly refurbished it would sound like the ADL, or at least extremely close to it. You are right, the old ones all behave a little bit inconsistently. The reason no one would ever think that an ART was "as good" is because it's a mud box, but YES, on certain recordings it could be the right thing.... so who can argue with that? Not fighting :)
soundpurestudios 5 months ago
@silvercelli Everyone is entitled to their opinion, we really can't argue with what you hear. It's more that the underlying premise of calling one world class compressor "better" than another may be a bit over-simplified. 90% mistakenly think "vintage" is better before they've even pressed play. The reality is that whether one is "better" will be entirely dependent on the final mix- something that retains a bit more of the original detail and complexities will often hold up better in the mix.
soundpurestudios 5 months ago
@silvercelli Better how? Given these are production tools, it is imperative that we not jump to the conclusion that listening to things in absolute isolation one is better or worse than another. This is not in defense of any one product, just that differences provide options. You can say La2a is warmer but also muddier & noisier, and the ADL is cleaner, more articulate, and more op-it really depends on the production need. The "better" La2A, if refurb'd would actually sound more like the ADL
soundpurestudios 5 months ago
ADL lacks the the larger and taller robustness of the LA2A without any sonic argument.. LA2A alos has a clarity, that the ADL does not have. Sonically these two units are so far apart its like comparing the the blind to the sighted. wait the blind can see more (sometimes) to the sighted. Ok like comparing the lame to the a marathon runner. Hows that! No bias here as I have an ADL. just cant afford the LA2A yet.
dragonlee1bfed 5 months ago
@dragonlee1bfed Let's just say we've tested more than just 1 LA2A. We must respectfully disagree with what you are saying. The variance between clean to ailing vintage units can be wide. The ADL is reminiscent of the freshest vintage LA2A's that we have encountered- essentially if you can imagine the way the LA2A should sound, or did sound when it was new. This particular La2a needed a lot of TLC, and sounded more sluggish, noisy as a result. One mans "warm" is another mans "muddy" I guess.
soundpurestudios 5 months ago
@soundpurestudios I'm going to have to agree with dragon. The ADL has a certain transparency and brightness that the LA-2A doesn't, but I'm digging the warmth and compression character of the LA-2A more.
FoxyMoxyRoxy333 5 months ago
@FoxyMoxyRoxy333 Cool. To each his own. We find the added transparency to be more versatile, in most cases, particularly when stacking tracks in a mix. That's why most engineers try to ensure that their vintage units are refurbed to modern spec (like the ADL), so they aren't sluggish/muddy in a mix. But the differences are certainly a matter of preference and taste, can't argue with you there. Our regret is not conducting the shootout blindly- it's nice to listen without knowing what's what.
soundpurestudios 5 months ago
Stop talking between the dry track!!!!! how are we supposed to HEAR the difference!!
Goofy, and in love with his voice. Shut up and let the equipment do the testing!!!!!
fendertwin777 6 months ago
@fendertwin777 seriously? Is a comment like that supposed tp help in some way? This video was posted almost two years ago. We welcome constructive criticism, but this seemed a little bit more on the hostile side of things. We work really hard to educate the world about the best audio equipment currently being produced. Sorry if you find our approach imperfect to your taste, but a lot of work goes into these videos, and release them for free for the public with the hope that they're enjoyed
soundpurestudios 6 months ago 2
In male ADL 1000 and female La2a much better. For me...lol!
diego13x 6 months ago
@diego13x Interesting, thanks for participating!
soundpurestudios 6 months ago
when we start putting music back onto some kind of hardware,like a disc/dvd at 96k and better then maybe its worth spending money on expensive gear
EnveBeats 6 months ago
@EnveBeats If you can't hear the difference of quality gear as compared to cheap gear and/opr plug=ins, it isn't a good investment for YOU to be making. But, whether the ultimate medium is tape, record, CD/DVD, Blueray, Radio, or MP3, if you track and produce an album with cheap garbage, the product will stink of those products, even on a lower resolution medium.
soundpurestudios 6 months ago
ppl lets be serious,we dont even listen to music at 44.1khz anymore(not like thats that good anyway lol) ,spend all this money and all your hard work goes right to a crappy mp3 lol what a waste
EnveBeats 6 months ago
@EnveBeats Fortunately some people not only care about the sound of things that they track, produce, and master, but that sound actually trickles down to what can indeed be discerned and heard on lower resolutions. The MP3 comment is not a new one, but the reality is that if you think you can achieve the same quality of MP3 master by tracking through a $200 audio interface with some free plug-ins, you'll have to hear the difference that great gear can make- even when MP3 is the ultimate medium.
soundpurestudios 6 months ago
second time listening to this vid and i'm not certified engineer, But there is No deffrence and there is a diffrence Lol...ok the LA-2A from what i heard here...I'm in love Big Time. They have the same warmth, push, sound..But the Feel is what separates an original and why that high profile client asked for it...I listen to this on my DT 770 PRO. If I had the Money I would own BOTH of-em ADL 1500 Clean sound and LA2A has a Very Pleasant after TASTE hope i discribe well enough. Post More Gear :)
CoGnAcDiPpEd1 6 months ago
@CoGnAcDiPpEd1 Thanks for commenting and expressing your opinion, we have many more things on the way!
soundpurestudios 6 months ago
Both are great. The original has much better lyric representation for male vocal, sounds warmer. Nothing stands in the way of getting the message. ADL has a bit of a pointed top. The female vocal is better with the ADL here. LA2 is just not working with the voice and the lyric properly. Thanks for your video!
GuantanamoDance 6 months ago
@GuantanamoDance Thanks for the comment and critical listen... well put... in the end the best choice will be determined by what is best for the instrument, the track, and the music (in the mix)
soundpurestudios 6 months ago
Was it a Blind Shoot-out for the engineers? If it wasn't, it should have been, as well as for us YouTube'ers (YouTube compression or not).
AmpsforBuddha 6 months ago
@AmpsforBuddha Indeed- you will not we are conducting the more recent shootouts on youtube blindly. The shootout was most certainly blind for us when we did it. Good questions- we agree with your comment.
soundpurestudios 6 months ago
Linux with Ardour and the LASPA plugins are all I'll ever need or ever want. They get the job done very well, and sound great. We can all thank Steve Harris for the gift.
analyzingfunny 7 months ago
@analyzingfunny Plugings are great- recall-ability for one is worth a lot. We use a tremendous number of plug-ins, particularly when the budget doesn't dictate going out of the box. But, having had the luxury of comparing numerous La2A plug-ins side by side this beauty, and there was no comparison. There are certain behaviors that have been successfully cloned, but certain harmonic interactions that have not. You won't hear us bash plug-ins, but there's a reason we have both.
soundpurestudios 6 months ago
If you listen closely to the sax piece, you can actually pick out the air release from the keys. It's almost like you are listening from inside the sax. Very neat effect when you are trying to induce a psycho-acoustc visual between two speakers. I have used both the ADL1000 and the LA-2A. If the question is, which unit is better now, then the answer is the ADL-1000 because it is easier to obtain, therefore it's sonic signature is the sound of today.
rrvsop2 7 months ago
@rrvsop2 Thanks for the very interesting comment, and careful listen.
soundpurestudios 7 months ago
I think ADL 1000 has more of a pumping effect... I like LA2-A much more... almost can't hear the compressor...
MrDjNickone 7 months ago
@MrDjNickone You should request the high resolution audio files from us, we will gladly send them along. Youtube bit compression badly effects the ability to really critically compare, and if that's the difference you are hearing through youtube, it's possible that you will feel differently after listening to the high resolution files. We completely know the effect that you are referencing, but fail to hear it with the ADL, and have very many high dollar compressors here at Sound Pure.
soundpurestudios 7 months ago
@soundpurestudios thank you for fast response... Yeah... I would love to hear high quality files comparison... :)
MrDjNickone 7 months ago
@MrDjNickone No problem at all- can you shoot us an e-mail to sales(at)soundpure(dot)com, we will make it happen!
soundpurestudios 7 months ago
Both units are doing what they should.
They are sound shapeing tools.
One is not better than the other.
They do the same job a little differntly.
It's all about personal taste.
More important is what works in the track.
CHANNELDEREK 9 months ago
@CHANNELDEREK Very well said. Thanks for the comment and the critical listen. You could certainly expect to hear some differences between vintage LA2A's of different age, history, or maintenance. At the end of the day, what works is the "best" for any one given job. Thanks again for commenting on the video, and please let us know if we can ever help in any way.
soundpurestudios 9 months ago
@soundpurestudios what I wonder though is how much the youtube bit compression effects the sound as well. ;-) thanks for putting this video up though. I am subscribing.
flux302 8 months ago
@flux302 Thanks! Youtube compression certainly does affect the sound- keep in mind that we always readily provide any high resolution audio clips if you would like to hear them. We record most everything that we do in the studio at 24-bit, 88.2k. Please let us know if we can ever help with your recording or guitar needs, in any way!
soundpurestudios 8 months ago
@CHANNELDEREK
NO-ONE_TAKES_THE_RISK_TO_SAY_WHICH_SOUND_BETTER>>>>
BUT_DEMARIA_SOUNDS_FOR_ME_BETTER_TO_HAVE_WORK_WITH_THE_ADL-620>>IT's_not_kust_another_clone..
I_can't_wait_to-try_this_one
CheApyChip1 9 months ago
@CheApyChip1 Thanks for the comment!
soundpurestudios 9 months ago
I'm not a pro, but it seems to me as the vintage one is a bit more creamy, the copied version is a little more crisp. I think both keep the "dimensions" of the sound really nicely. In a world where money is not a problem, I would get both of them to be honest, else I would get the new version without the slightest feeling of compromise.
panospylar 9 months ago 2
@panospylar Thanks a lot for the comment... for a 'non pro' you sure have done a fantastic job of summarizing exactly what we also heard here, and what probably failed to make as clear as you did here in the video. You are 100% on point with what we think... the newer unit has a certain detail retention that could be very useful in the mix, but the subtle differences between them are certainly a matter of taste- both fantastic tools. Thanks for the great comment and careful listen.
soundpurestudios 9 months ago
@panospylar I agree I was thinking the same. sounds like the detail in the highs seem just a tad more present in the newer model. I like em though they both sound fantastic.
flux302 8 months ago
@flux302 Certainly a matter of preference, but they are definitely cut from the same cloth. If that older unit had been recently refurnished, and if the compression amounts were calibrated to be the same, the differences would be real difficult to distinguish- something nice about getting a new piece of gear is that it is a known entity. The old ones all behave a little differently, but that's part of the fun/risk/vibe of vintage, I guess.
soundpurestudios 8 months ago
Dave Grohl voice ?
mxdxr 9 months ago
@mxdxr Are you talking about Matt Douglas?
soundpurestudios 9 months ago
la2a sounds better. Seriously, from your demeanor in the video it seems your sheepishly desperate to make AD equipment god's gift to all unknowing. Anthony demaria this, Anthony demaria that, on and on. Your probably secretly dreaming about him before you go to sleep at night.
Vintage units are fine if serviced. If your "engineers" couldn't hear a difference they need to have their ears checked.
desol333 9 months ago
@desol333 What about YouTube makes people leave their manners at home? Did you listen to what we said? Blind tests are a lot more fun, because people don't make nearly as bold statements, they can still hear differences, but they are a lot more afraid to say which is which, or which is better!
Stating one is better than another is actually poor form if you really engineer. There were differences, yes- we couldn't get the compressors to line up because the old one was out of calibration.
soundpurestudios 9 months ago
@desol333 FYI, the purpose of the video was not only to shoot the two out, but to introduce the world to ADL- If you actually have a Vintage unit, he's the best guy around to take care of it- the old opto's need VERY frequent cleaning or repair.
Do you have some sort of problem with Anthony? He's an incredible guy, that not a lot of people know about- really unsure why people such as yourself feel some deep need to use the comment portion of youtube as a forum to attack.
soundpurestudios 9 months ago
@soundpurestudios Stating that one is better than the other means you actually have testicles and can make a choice. La2a's are for lumberjacks, to record music that people actually enjoy listening to. Infomercial shootouts, are for used car salesmen that enjoy s.e.x in abandoned public bathrooms. Demaria is smart, in that, he can build something by himself and then convince another individual to waste their own time, by promoting it on youtube...or to spend 20k on a clone 670.
desol333 9 months ago
@desol333 Given that we actually engineer records here, stating that any piece of equipment is "better than another" is a real risk, and often an indication of amateurism, or at the very least short-sidedness. Until a mix is in a finished state, that's a tough thing to say. Noting differences is a sign of a good ear, unfortunately siding with the Vintage piece is an indication of making a safe stance on youtube- clearly that's the easier thing to say since that's the expectation
soundpurestudios 9 months ago
@soundpurestudios Having a 'firm' opinion of what one likes(making decisions), indicates that one has no other motivation other than...they like that unit better for what they are using it for....unlike the wishy washy opinion that comes from the motivation to promote or advertise something.
desol333 9 months ago
@desol333 From your attitude, and demeanor, it is clear that you have not used the ADL1500, and certainly not the ADL 670. Perhaps you should reserve your commentary for equipment with which you have real experience. If you don't like our free videos (made with great time, energy, and cost) for the purpose of educating people about things in which they may not have experience, I sincerely recommend that you don't watch them. An expert such as yourself clearly doesn't need our vids :)
soundpurestudios 9 months ago
Listening to the ridiculous engineers at the end is hilarious... The originals sound far better. None of them have a clue and its obvious the video is INTENDED to sell the new units.
But what do I know... I just own a fully serviced perfect vintage example and know what to listen for. Even on you tube...
This video is for people who do NOT own or use the vintage models regularly. If serviced they are EXTREMELY reliable...
At least you ran some brass through it.... Its monster on horns
whitepapagold 10 months ago
@whitepapagold First of all, the video was created when you tube limited it to 10 minutes. There was a 20 minute conversation that took place. The conversation was edited yes, but nothing that was said was untrue.
Agreed freshly serviced units are reliable, but most are not freshly serviced and most users don't even know what to listen for when they start to misbehave or have problems.
Our recommendations relate to the users that watch these vids...
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
@whitepapagold One other interesting tidbit is that fact that when we actually conducted the shootout blindly (not on youtube where everyone can sing the praises of the vintage unit when they know which is the one that they are listening to) a number of "vintage lovers" like yourself believed that the new unit was the vintage one. It's easy to talk about how great what you have is and how bad our engineers are when you are listening to a fully exposed "result" of a comprehensive blind test.
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
@whitepapagold Glad you found the engineers comical, in that group were two grammy nominated engineers, among other very well-reputed engineers. If the result is selling new units, that's not a bad thing. With the exception of extremely reputably serviced vintage units (there aren't that many guys left out there that can do this), reliability, consistency, noise, are often problems. Novice studio users wouldn't even know they had a problem- new units are MUCH safer for most people
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
i love this guy here.. he explains everytihng PERFECT.. a big help this guy is! thanks man! i love you!
konjunktion26 10 months ago
@konjunktion26 Hey, thanks a LOT for the support, we are doing our best here, and why I'm not sure we are perfect, we are trying our hardest. It's nice to hear from you what you think. Thanks again for the comment!
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
The vintage la2a seems to bring out some sort of upper high harmonic distortion in the video while the ADL "sounds" just like the la2a, but the color in the video just isnt the same as the la2a.
richardgaas 10 months ago
@richardgaas Thanks for the comment and critical listen- keep in mind, it is impossible to dial the two compressors in, because the sensitivity of the original LA2A was a bit non-linear and erratic, but we did our best to get them close, but the reality is that they were compressing at different amounts, so differences were inevitable in this short demo. Really appreciate the watch, and keep in mind that we do have high res files available if you'd like to do further analysis!
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
@soundpurestudios absoutely.. I was actually reading somwhere that the t4 optical unit in the la2a degenerates over time and that makes it harder to gain stage and get the proper amount of compression going. Apparently, the manufacturer recommended switching out the optical units every couple of years. There are some la2as that have never had their units switched! and according to what I was reading that makes it harder to match to any other unit!
richardgaas 10 months ago
@richardgaas Very, very well put, thanks for adding this important detail- and quite honestly, this is the "unreliability" that we often refer to about these units. But, there are numerous vintage-obsessed guys on here than don't recognize or understand these types of issues or limitations. Certainly when comparing a brand new LA2A replica to a vintage one that has degraded opto's or other components makes it pretty hard to match them for a test like this- we certainly did our best with it...
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
@soundpurestudios absolutely.. I was actually reading somwhere that the t4 optical unit in the la2a degenerates over time and that makes it harder to gain stage and get the proper amount of compression going. Apparently, the manufacturer recommended switching out the optical units every couple of years. There are some la2as that have never had their units switched! and according to what I was reading that makes it harder to match to any other unit!
richardgaas 10 months ago
unreliability isn't an issue if you have a GOOD tech on your payroll, & in a place like Sound Pure, you should have a good tech on call all or at least most of the time...my dad (I'm 25 years-old as I type this, he's like 30 Years & 6 Months older than I am, making HIM like 56 years-old at the end of next month)....& my dad's a vintage Fender Amp Tech & right now he's probably the best vintage Fender Amp tech in the United States...
thedeem0N 10 months ago
@thedeem0N Very cool, Glad to hear that your Dad is a superb tech- perhaps you are in a unique situation to take advantage of some vintage gear. Unfortunately, most of our clients, and most of the people that watch this video are not in the same position that you are in. Many of the studios these days can't afford to keep a tech on payroll anymore, and most of the people buying gear these days are home studio guys or project studios. They just don't have the access for tech maintenance u do.
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
Guys.. Thanks for a great shootout..
We preferred the muddy sounding old unreliable LA2. Warmer, smoother, classier vibe over the possibly slightly harsher ADL.
But its great that you show folk that perhaps cant afford the LA2 how the cheaper ADL unit compares..
Regards..
tutakar 11 months ago
@tutakar We hate to see the way that this thread is working out, mostly because we did far more tests than we could have possibly consolidated to video, and just universally agreed that the ADL had a bit more preservation of the original sonic info, which we preferred after many tests. Obviously, we feel like the ADL performed better in a technical sense - that being said, we completely appreciate everyone's opinion on the tracks that we displayed here. Mud can be desirable on solo channels!!
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
@tutakar Thanks a lot for the comment, we appreciate the participation. There's something to be said for vintage vibe, as there is for modern reliability. I'd personally love a 60's Vette but wouldn't drive it to work every day, but no one can question the color in that exhaust! :) Anyway, thanks again!!
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
@dkillian12 vintage one was Fuller and more natural the adl was more squeezed but it was still nice, thats what i hear...this is judge on the female w/Gtr bleed. If i had the money and clients with big budgets ill go w/vintage. I love my adl 600. Does any body know a good converter to look into. I have a 003rack and Alesis master control?
CoGnAcDiPpEd1 11 months ago
@CoGnAcDiPpEd1 No problem, we can agree to disagree on the compressor! Anyhow, how many channels of converters are you after, and is sample rate a problem? There are a variety of great options depending on the budget and the sample rate requirements- one problem you will face is that interfacing with a 003, your best bet is probably ADAT lightpipe, but with PT9 you no longer have this limitation. Have you looked at the Lynx Converters for Multichannel? Lavry/Mytek are both great, but more $
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
@soundpurestudios Lynx 8 ch or RMEBaby face? and i do have pt9 ive tested my 003 againts my Alesis Master Control Board and 003 is more cleaneri on the budget so the Lynx 8 will be my max im using the imac 21.5 so im limited no pci, let me know THX
CoGnAcDiPpEd1 11 months ago
@CoGnAcDiPpEd1 If you can fit it into the budget, the Lynx Aurora 8 + FW combo is absolutely killer for your situation. You are talking about a different level of overall clarity, detail, and precisions over the other alternatives. The Baby Face is a very nice box, and very well priced, but just not quite what the Lynx is... We'd love to talk to you more about your precise needs, usage situation, and even let you know about a short deal we have running on both the Lynx + FW and Babyface!
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
@soundpurestudios im looking at the dynamic range, and the lynx beats them by 117db out...But the AD on the Apogee Symphony IO is 120 and DA is 129...? am i on the right track? as in the babyface my alesis master control is 114 out and RME is 115...? i have the Alesis and 003Rack and as i grow in my mixes i can here my loses i use Ozone 4 Dither but...not enough. I want a noticeable change. I think Symphony IO is the answer...?But like Short Circuit said "need more input".... Im Listening....?
CoGnAcDiPpEd1 10 months ago
@CoGnAcDiPpEd1 First of all, you can't read into specs too much (or at all)... there is no central testing facility for these things, which means specs rely on a company's "self-reporting" these technical numbers- you know what that means- the numbers are pretty much worthless. Any serious testing is done by critical listening, rather than spec analysis. Symphony is nice too, but those specs tell you nothing, and of course it is much more money. Call us, we should have a discussion!
soundpurestudios 10 months ago
@dkillian12 We certainly don't always put down the vintage gear- have you seen our video series - we have over 300 HD movies already, some of which praise vintage equipment. If you can hear the difference between the gear, good for you, so can we. 99.9% of the people can't, in the mix forget about it. Saying that we flat out lie couldn't be further from the truth. You want to make a single vintage piece a definitive test, then you are missing the point of all these videos.
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
@soundpurestudios One vintage piece of gear sounds DIFFERENT to another vintage piece of gear, even if they were built the same year. 30-50 year old equipment ages differently, for a lot of reasons. The bottom line is in many of our tests, modern replicas sound as close or similar to the vintage we shoot them up against as one vintage piece sounds to another. Saying that the LA2a sounds MUCH smoother than the ADL1000 is sort of like saying this U47 from 1960 is WAY better than a U47 from 61
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
Anyone suggesting that we lie has some sort of problem with our approach- the approach that requires that we distill things down into understandable and digestible formats (short videos) in which people can watch and learn. If you want to scrutinize what we've done, please feel free to create your own videos. Others can be their own judge for what they are hearing, and we even provide ANYONE with the high res files- how is that lying? We are trying to do something cool here.
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
dude why do you always put down the vintage gear? And if you guys can't hear the HUGE difference between the two compressors you don't deserve to be in a studio.the la-2a sounded much warmer and smoother than the adl 1000. and you said there was no difference between the neve 1073 and the vintech x73i which those are very similar but still i can hear subtle differences. so for you to flat out lie to people so the will buy your gear. that just really gets to me and all you don;t know nothing..
dkillian12 11 months ago
dude why do you always put down the vintage gear? And if you guys can't hear the HUGE difference between the two compressors you don't deserve to be in a studio.the la-2a sounded much warmer and smoother than the adl 1000. and you said there was no difference between the neve 1073 and the vintech x73i which those are very similar but still i can hear subtle differences. so for you to flat out lie to people so the will buy your gear. that just really gets to me and all you don;t know nothing...
dkillian12 11 months ago
IMO u guys really seemed to have missed the fact that the vintage unit sounds warmer. I couldn't even believe my ears when one of you said you couldn't tell the difference. I am not saying the new unit is a poor facsimile... it's decent for sure. But that warmth is not there. I mean come on... it's not even a matter of opinion... you GOTTA be able to hear that warmth. I think this is what you are calling "muddy". But it's not really muddy -- i sensed no detail loss. The new unit is brighter tho.
vantagestudios 11 months ago
Sorry, guys. That last comment was a bit harsh. You just shouldn't have to detract from a comparable compressor to be confident in the fact that you've made a great one on your own. I think you would be wise to let the ADL's unique sound stand on its own rather than trying to leverage it against the potential problems of a vintage LA2A.
davidhrivnak 11 months ago
@davidhrivnak Vintage units DO have problems. The older they ge,t the more likely the problems are. Why does that make our commentary disingenuous. We have tremendous experience in this area, and perhaps you do too. They are different from one another, but it's a far cry from one or the other sounding wildly grossly better than one another. The bottom line is that people don't come out and make those statements when the listen to the two side-by-side blindly.
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
We honestly don't care which one people prefer. The vintage unit is 3-times the prices on a per-channel basis, and sorry, they do have issues, and don't come with a warranty. A good one can work many years without problems but over time, as things fail you will be replacing them with new parts, most likely the identical new parts currently being used, built, and supplied to the industry by Anthony. This is a defense or anything, we certainly appreciate the commentary, nice thread.
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
Honestly, your persistent criticisms of the problems associated with some old LA2A units are a bit ridiculous. I do appreciate the time you've put into responding to all of these comments, but I have to say that I don't like the ham-fisted way you've attempted to dismiss the venerable vintage LA2A compressor. You might respond to this with the fact that you love the LA2A and only wish it was as reliable and crisp as the product you're selling, but it's a little late for a tasteful retreat.
davidhrivnak 11 months ago
@davidhrivnak This is the reason all the shootouts that we will conduct from here on out will be blind. People are simply affected by what they read. Perhaps you really do like the sound of the LA2A better, but those of us that have listened extensively here blindly have come to a different conclusion. The ADL is a modern replica down to the replcement transformers, caps, exact tubes, and his opto is the known replacement when an opto goes bad in a vintage unit.
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
Whoa! The LA2A sounds MUCH better! The ADL compressor sounded really good, but in a side-by-side comparison it loses out hard. There is something tangibly richer and warmer in the sound from the LA2A, and it's more upfront and 3-dimensional (I know that technically doesn't make any sense, but I can't think of a better way to say it). I would much rather deal with occasional repairs than have a reliable second-rate sound. Thank you for posting this video! It was truly informative.
davidhrivnak 11 months ago
@davidhrivnak Wow, Really? We are actually shocked to hear your reaction, but thankful for your comment nonetheless- not at all the impression that we got, and you only saw about 1% of the side-by-side testing that we did here. We found that the ADL actually had better detail, and a more up front sound, and that the LA2A sounded just a touch muddier to us. The reality is that if you refurbed the old LA2A they would be exceptionally close- the ADL is like a LA2A would be out of the box!
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
@soundpurestudios Yeah, really! I might have a different opinion if I had heard the other 99% of your test, but I have to rely on the part you posted here. I was honestly very surprised by how much better the LA2A sounded in this demo. The poorly recorded (or badly EQed) guitar part in the final example did sound thinner on the ADL, but the LA2A was only as muddy as the original recording. As a side note, I think it's really cool that you guys personally respond to so many of these comments.
davidhrivnak 11 months ago
@hamburg58 Sincerely, thanks for the comment by the way. Since we have extensive experience with both of these, as you obviously do as well, it's nice to hear someone else chime in.
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
@hamburg58 Sorry you feel that we are dissing in the LA2A- it is indeed a remarkable tool, however, there are a lot of lemons out there, particularly on the used market. We have seen a lot of "problem children" come through here, and in fact, many of the units out there have issues- if you get them repaired, and up to speed, they are likely to provide many years of reliable work, but there's no substitute for a new piece of gear for day-in day-out reliability. A Warranty can be worth a lot.
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
neglegible differences so either is okay
ColdGripHandle 11 months ago
@ColdGripHandle Thanks for the comment... We pretty much fundamentally agree that the subtlety will be pretty hard to discern in a mix, and that both give you that rich, smooth, La2A character that people love on things like Vox, Bass, Sax, etc. Thanks again for posting your comment and your support of Sound Pure. Please let us know if/how we can help in any way with your studio!
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
For me Vintage LA2A is better!
iliatilev 11 months ago
@iliatilev Thanks for the comment! For us, the two are different, but very stylistically similar.
soundpurestudios 11 months ago
I liked the sound of the 1500. It sounds a lot more consistent, but I gotta say the "attitude" of the LA 2A sounded a lil more natural to me. And it felt as though the track was breathing and wasn't perfect. The 1500 sounded great though.
glict 1 year ago
@glict Thanks for the comment. There definitely are differences between the sonic characters/artifacts, particularly that the older one produces... because it is noisier and its overall calibration is a bit suspect, there is definitely more loss, and that certainly creates a "smoothness" associated with that. The 1500 seems to retain a little bit more detail, and basically do a better job at loss less compression, but both have that LA2A smoothness and vibe. Thanks for the comment!
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
I've got to agree with one of the previous posters - as nice as the ADL is the LA2A has it. the transient response against some of the more popping moments on the vocal or the kick clicks of the sax (i know - not loved but it's their!!) just sound "sweeter". There is a more euphonic quality even through the Youtube compression! Seems a shame because I'm in the market for something like the ADL because I dont want the headache of older gear!!
narcoman2 1 year ago
@narcoman2 We have ADL's in both of our two recording studios and have simply not looked back. They are the go-to box. We got tired of the headaches ourselves, and that's why we went this way. You could get an old one and have it meticulously refurbished but I'm seriously afraid that what you'd end up with is the ADL. The older units have idiosyncrasies, vibe (as well as noise and distortion), but you never know what you are going to get. For reliability, this is the best option we've found
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
@narcoman2 Keep in mind, that neither of these units were calibrated to eachother- since we couldn't trust the meter of the old unit at all, we just tried to do our best in a very fast setup on camera... there was far more elaborate "off camera" testing between the ADL, the Vintage La2a, and a bunch of other compressors, this captured the compression style better than any of the others we tried, but less noise/distortion/funky behavior than the vintage
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios I'll borrow one from my fave retailer (KMR). Best option !! Then I can decide.....
narcoman2 1 year ago
@narcoman2 Cool. let us know how it goes! Wish you were over here in the states, we'd be glad to help.
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
wow...monumental difference between these two. The LA-2A is a lot warmer sounding from what Im hearin here on youtube.
tramoliter 1 year ago
@tramoliter Monumental? If you have experience with Vintage equipment, you will notice that this LA-2A sounds like it's in need of a refurb, whereas the ADL sounds like a vintage LA2A would out of the box. If you took a spread of Vintage LA2A's like this one, and Vintage LA2A's that have been completely overhauled and refurbed, you would find the differences negligible. Is it possible the warmth you are hearing could be attributable to the higher noise floor, and treble loss on the old one?
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
@soundpurestudios perhaps then you should have done a shootout between the clone and a new LA 2. David Bowie did a comparison between the old and the new LA 2A and liked the new one better.
tramoliter 1 year ago
@tramoliter Maybe we will... the problem with the old ones though is that they are at varying degrees of repair, often in need of new tubes, sometimes have transformers that are on the edge of failure... tend to be noisier depending on the power supplies, etc. A nicely refurbished older LA2A will be extremely close to the sound of the ADL1000. Typically, what people hear as differences are related to noise and distortion associated with these issues, rather than what the compressor is doing.
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
The compression of the ADL Fits and Tighten the Vocals a Bit more
But it depends on how the artist like them ..
hibyc 1 year ago
@hibyc Exactly, the subtle differences between them are certainly a matter of choice. We feel like the ADL puts you in the ballpark, but at the same time provides a much more reliable alternative tp a vintage one. If the vintage unit was perfectly recapped, calibrated, cleaned up, and generally overhauled, they would sound extremely close to one another. Some people like the slightly soupey-sounding response of the vintage, but others think it's a bit too muddy-sounding. It's subtle though.
soundpurestudios 1 year ago
I really liked this video. I did hear very slight differences between the two units on the male vocal demo. I felt that there was a slight clarity in the midrange in the older unit that I didn't hear in the replica. I thought they both sounded great however. Cool vid=-)
thedukewestern 1 year ago
@thedukewestern Thanks a lot for the nice comment and the critical listen. There definitely are some subtle differences here, but you can expect that even between two old units- so much variance happens over units depending on the kind of age that they see.
soundpurestudios 1 year ago