Insurance Jive: The Real "Death Panels" (by Courage Campaign)

[danielvg85]

this is true with car insurance companies, it is true with home insurance companies and it is true with health insurance companies. they are business and they don't want to lose money that's the true.

[louis12346]

"Why would you try to stuff a health-care plan down our throats in a couple days when the president took six months to pick a dog for his kids?"

[louis12346]

They found New Money.OBAMA Health care Money that will be taken out of every working peoples Check,Just like Social Security ,They can Loot it Too,Go back to sleep every thing is Fine we are backed by Toxic derivatives & Toxic Obamacare sell a kidney

[92reasons]

what do think we should do you Republicans have something to offer or are you just going to bitch and moan like the rest of the Republicans

[CommonSenseJoe]

Yes, plenty of ideas, but they don't lead to what the President wants: single payer, government run healthcare.

[RedNymph234]

why are people ,making this into a democrat versus republical issue? Shouldn't it be just an American issue ruled by equality and justice for all? (in a perfect world maybe....)

[RedNymph234]

wow...that made me want to cry...because the video is so true

[MeandProgressive]

Peter and the Politics of Pot by John Gizzi

Lewis made the kind of news uncommon among billionaires: he was arrested after Customs Agents found 1.7 ounces of marijuana and two ounces of hashish in his luggage at a New Zealand airport. Progressive Insurance shares valued at about $199,000 went to the Marijuana Policy Project and 6,633 shares of Progressive Insurance valued at $998,598 went to the Drug Policy Alliance.

[mrburningone]

Yep, those "good old conservative values" at work again. I can hear them all now, "Keep your hands off MY socialism!!"

Because that's what this is all about anyway. The conservative base is largely in the south where government programs litter the landscape of "whitetrashville".

Tennessee is a prime example: TnCare, WIC, welfare checks, social security, medicare/medicaid, worker's compensation, etc.etc..

It's not that they don't want healthcare reform, they just don't want to give up theirs.

[Lawrencealso]

Common sense, Joe? Common sense tells us that the Earth is flat. It takes a bit of what is apparently in our country, uncommon sense to see through the lies propagated by the radical Republicans whose soul concern is to wreck any chance that their opponents in the political game, lose. Unfortunately the Democrats struggle for a draw, that they call consensus. Sheep have no business trying to form a consensus with wolves. How nice you have the option to buy health insurance. A lot of folks don't.

[CommonSenseJoe]

What lies? The Democrats are NOT looking for consensus or bipartisanship. They want political cover for their takeover of healthcare.

Some people don't make any effort.

[mrburningone]

One sure fire way to make certain there are far less conservative voters in 2012 is for them to simply resist that whole "socialist vaccination" for H1N1 - swine flu this fall. Just say NO to your government sponsored vaccination and make sure your children and elderly don't get it either. Wouldn't want to force a "socialist vaccination program" on them, why what would the neighbors think?

Don't forget now, just say NO to socialism...and uh, hopefully, die.

[CommonSenseJoe]

Ask yourself this question, why are there so few companies in the world today who make vaccines?

When you have answered that, think about this question, if that vaccine kills your spouse or child, who are you going to sue?

[Lucem2]

The current system is better because it gets rid of sick and poor people.

Is all about natural selection.

I've a business where I make lots of money screwing idiots and retards.

Is all about the survival of the fittest my friend.

Welcome to America !

[RedNymph234]

ok when ur sick I'll just say the same thing you did "Natural selection my friend" Fuck you!

[unhappy4life9]

Neither side makes any sense; I'm sick of it. You're whores to ideology. You can't vaule ideology more than reason.

[jaysgoodct]

People stand 4 america not communism come to my page watch and listen we dont need this program comment my page with ur protest i will get it to the white house

[mrburningone]

While you're protesting these "socialist programs" to the White House, don't forget to tell them you won't be needing any medicare, medicaid, social security, unemployment benefits and just about anything that has benefited Americans who work hard and still get fucked by the corporate insurance complex.

I hope you get cancer and then cry to your corporate masters to save your life and see how sympathetic they are to your needs as a human being.

They won't.

You're sick and so therefore a risk.

[TheShipOfTheseus]

This is a prime example of fear mongering, don't you think?

[hellifiedgangsta1234]

lol thats funny cuz thats how they sucker u

[putittogether]

Yea screw the insurance company's, our Congress with a 14 approval rating can do a better job of protecting us from medical fraud, they should decide whom lives and dies. The politicians are far better qualified than the doctors and you.....

Neither group is right. Insurance is wrong and Single Payer is wrong. Why not try a the most effective way know to making throughout recorded human history solve the problem of high cost?

To bad you are too stupid and brainwashed to know the answer.

[CarryANationIII]

Uh, you do realize that every insurance company is chartered by the state, dependent on favorable regulation passed by 14% approval rating Congress, and that they spend millions and millions of dollars bribing - er, lobbying - Congress, don't you?

[Joe402]

This is a good ad.

Fuck Obama and his insurance industry buddies.

[Joe402]

Yes that's right Obama is fighting for the insurance companies instead of the average citizen.

[spasticdeath]

DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Obama is fighting against the insurance companies.

[CommonSenseJoe]

He is fighting to take control of the healthcare industry from insurance companies to providers. It is multi-trillions of dollars he needs to keep the government from going bankrupt.

[Joe402]

No he is in bed with them.

[DARRJOHN]

what hes trying to say i will see you in court

[illxplicit07]

now, if obama can grow a pair, we might actually get this done, and improve the quality of health care in this country.

[illxplicit07]

if only democrats could sell health care as well as george bush sold the american people the war in iraq. now, when it comes time to helping the people in this country, we cant afford it. how wonderfully convenient for the republicans to make that argument.

[artgoat]

kollegekids: "I've read that the majority of Americans are pleased with their health care (nearly 90% some polls say)"

Wow! So more people are satisfied with their health insurance than actually HAVE health insurance! That's really impressive performance on the part of the insurance companies!

[barackobambi]

deploy Obama to Iraq

[MrSTANDFORAMERICA]

what they failed to show in this ad is, the man and woman lived years without healthcare insurance. Then AFTER she finds she has breast cancer, goes out and buys healthcare insurance.

well it's to later then, insurance isn't something you can go out and buy for $100 and have them pay a $100,000 bill for you.

[davidpark68]

For all Interested : The President is holding a National Health Care Forum TODAY for all Organizing for America supporters.

Since the President forgot to Mention it to the Rest of America, I thought I would Post this to Youtube.

it will be held at At 2:30 p.m. Eastern Time, go here to watch the forum live:

Get the URL by clicking on my name & go to my Comments section, YT don't allow URLs to be Posted here

[personage2007]

the real death panels would be run by redneck republicans born with a silver spoon up their ass. They are all like "I DUN WANNA PAY FOR SOME1 ELSES HEALTHCARE!" so they think a 20cent bullet for granny would be better than spending a few extra cents for a poor person to get coverage

[CommonSenseJoe]

Totally not true.

[DillonX]

I was with Blue Cross for years & yes, they had an approved list of doctors I could go to.

And then when I needed something my doctor had to argue with "the insurance guy" who was hundreds of miles away about whether I needed it.

It took them 3 months to approve me just getting a colonscopy.

I finally tired of their BS & started to go to VA.

Last week my doctor at VA said it was time for a colonscopy again & ordered one AND IT WAS DONE IN 3 DAYS! (had to wait 3 days because of limited diet).

[melora72]

"I was with Blue Cross for years & yes, they had an approved list of doctors I could go to."

I am on Medicare and don't have a list of doctors I can go to. And I haven't had to contact Medicare to get a permission for any proceedures.

[RonPaulGeorgeRingo]

The biggest crime is that relative to just a few decades ago, we now have an INSANE % of the country "employed" in the ANTIQUATED & corrupt medical industrial complex - essentially doing "make-work" (nonsense jobs - mostly in the insurance industry). Regardless of the solution (left, right, or center), these MILLIONS of (by & large decent) people will eventually have to shift to MEANINGFUL employment as opposed to make-work. This will take time. The longer we wait, the longer it will take.

[CommonSenseJoe]

Can't you people get it straight...first the military industrial complex is running the country... not the corrupt medical industrial complex....Please put the tin-foil back on your head!

[RonPaulGeorgeRingo]

There is a huge amount of WASTE in BOTH. If you really can't see that then you are living in the land of make-believe. For me it's not a conspiracy issue, it's about make-work - (short term) "jobs" for jobs-sake. Hell, we could have 100% employment if we just want to give everybody a make-work job (DOD contracts, health insurance racket, etc.). Sooner or later the bill comes in, as it did - 30 years ago with the advent of credit card "conservatism".

[kollegekids]

I've read that the majority of Americans are pleased with their health care (nearly 90% some polls say) and while reform is needed, a drastic overhaul could ruin us. Regardless of how you feel about the issue, I would ask that Courage Campaign sticks to the issue it knows best - gay rights. Until that time, I no longer wish to be involved with your organization. Respectfully, _________

[kollegekids]

I was recently disappointed to see that your organization also supports other action items besides gay rights, namely the public health care option. I did not sign up to donate to that cause, and I think it's unfortunate that a gay rights organization has to be lobby for the rest of the traditional left-wing causes. It puts political moderates like me in a tough spot.

[kollegekids]

Dear CC, For several months I've been receiving your emails and reading them with enthusiasm. I support your goals of equality for gays in California and around the US. I even forward your emails to my friends.

[sigmet61]

I am canadian. we have socialized medecine. socialized. like your fire departments, your road system, your police departements. SOCIALIZED. people are so afraid of the word... My medical cost has not gone up.. i can not be kicked out of the system.. I can walk to the clinic down the road.. no paper work...no call to insurance companies and see a doctor anytime.You should try it. Just imagine if your fire departement had to call your insurance to see if they could come and put out the fire.

[CommonSenseJoe]

Our fire departments are not socialized. You cost don't go up because your government imposes price controls, salary caps, and rations care. If we go socialized, you will no longer have a cheap drugs made in the US.

[sigmet61]

Funny you talk about cheap drugs.... we, in canada, have cheaper drugs than you do.. Prescription drug prices in the United States are the highest in the world.

Competition usually brings down prices but in your country, for some reason, your health care and drugs are the highest in the world...

[CommonSenseJoe]

You don't have cheap drugs. You have price controls. You have American companies selling drugs there for little profit because they make the bulk of their profit here. If we go socialized here, you will be screwed.

[CommonSenseJoe]

Totally misleading ad, but that has been the strategy of the Left and the President on this issue from the beginning.

[sigmet61]

misleading..... what do you mean? You have not heard of insurance companies cancelling insurance coverage..

[CommonSenseJoe]

Insurance companies do not cancel you while you are in the hospital.  It is a total misrepresentation. Lying to people is not way to win support.

[zizizzi]

So please stop lying...

[kuttn7]

This ad is perfect. It says what i t needs to say to wake up the radical left.

It is crazy that my insurance has gone up 300% in the last few years and I have less coverage to show for it with higher deductibles.

[CommonSenseJoe]

You should blame the government for that, not the insurance companies.

[obscurerussell]

So Joe, I'd love to hear your explanation as to why kuttn7 should not blame her insurance company for raising her rates while cutting her coverage.  How is this the government's fault? Unless you mean to say that an almost total lack of government regulation is the reason these insurance companies have acted more like organized crime families than responsible healthcare servicers?

[CommonSenseJoe]

I don't know her specific situation. What I am refering to is the practice of cost-shifting. Medicare does not pay the full cost of treating Medicare patients. Providers LOSE money treating them and make up that cost by increasing prices for the rest of us.

If she doe not like her insurance company, she should get a new one.

[obscurerussell]

But you told kuttny7 should blame the government for her/his situation. Those were your words. As for your argument about Medicare forcing healthcare providers to charge higher prices to the rest of us, what does that have to do with insurance companies raising rates and cutting coverage?

[CommonSenseJoe]

Health insurance companies exist to make a profit. I know that is considered evil by you, but that is why they exist. The federal government was the one who promised free care to seniors. They started cutting the reimbursement rates to providers because they cannot afford the promises they made. President OBama is going to cut reimbursements even further to fund his new health plan.

Costs go up, insurance rates go up with them. It is a fact of life.

[obscurerussell]

Don't presume to know anything about me. I did not say making a profit is evil. Why does your side always resort to putting words in other people's mouths? Is that the best you can do. Explain to me how raising rates while simultaneously decreasing coverage or dropping people altogether jibes with what you are saying. If insurance rates are increasing because costs are increasing, then that only works if they are paying those costs. kuttn7 is saying they are not. please try again.

[CommonSenseJoe]

They did not raise just his or her rates. I rates have gone up because the cost of care has gone up. That is the way insurance works. It the cost of fixing my car goes up, my car insurance rate goes up. The greater the risk the larger the premium.

You say things that lead a person to believe that you think insurance companies are just evil and greedy. Insurance companies are in the business to make a profit. If a person is no longer a good risk, the company may drop them.

[obscurerussell]

First, you have still not addressed my question. Let me rephrase. You say insurance companies charge higher rates because the cost of healthcare is too high. kuttn7 said her rates are increasing, but her coverage is decreasing, suggesting that the insurance companies are NOT paying those higher healthcare costs. I'm asking you to explain the discrepancy. Second, are you suggesting that the health of American citizens should be a risk/benefit calculation that is based on corporate profits?

[CommonSenseJoe]

I answered you question. There is no discrepancy. As healthcare costs have gone up, insurers have had to increase their rates and decrease their coverages to stay in business. The increased costs are the result of losses incurred in treating Medicare patients.

My health is MY RESPONSIBILITY. Paying for my healthcare is MY RESPONSIBILITY. Do you honestly believe the government will not do their own risk/benefit calculations?  Some have already decided a unborn child is worthless.

[obscurerussell]

Finally, I'd like to address your final comment suggesting kuttn7 get a new insurance company. This is the whole point of healthcare reform. What if kuttn7 has a pre-existing condition and will not be picked up by a new insurance company? What if kuttn7 can't afford another insurance company?

[CommonSenseJoe]

Then he or she has a problem. Why does it become my problem? I have paid for my own insurance for decades. I have had to exclude some pre-existing conditions and paid for them out of my own pocket. That is life.

[Priest77]

Wow, are you a christian? What happened to "Love your neighbor as yourself?

[obscurerussell]

I'm really not sure how to even respond to this. First of all, it would seem that you and I have very different values. I believe that there should be a quality of life threshold, at which we say no one should be forced to live below. Access to health care should be part of that threshold level. Second of all, who's saying it has to become your problem? What is the basis for that comment? This comment sounds more like a temper tantrum than a valid argument.

[CommonSenseJoe]

What you want is socialism. From everyone according to the ability and to everyone according to their need. The problem is people choose to live at whatever quality of life they want. You work hard and do the right things, you have a good life in America.

We have Medicaid and Medicare, and soon OBamacare. We will still have poor people and people who die for lack of something.

[Buergs323]

aaaagreeed sir

[obscurerussell]

So what you're telling me is that the 45 million uninsured people in this great land of ours, are so because they either do not work hard or do not do the "right things"? Hmm... I may say things that might lead certain individuals to think I believe insurance companies are evil, but you say things that would lead many to believe your attitude towards your fellow countrymen is, at best, apathetic.

[CommonSenseJoe]

Why are those people "uninsured" is the question? When you break down that mythical number, how big is the problem really? I know MANY people today who could afford health insurance like me who CHOOSE not to spend the money on it. They have new cellphones, nice cars, and flat screens in every room. They go into debt up to their eye balls and then whine that they cannot afford health insurance.

Some are illegal aliens who will not even be covered by the bill at all.

[CommonSenseJoe]

My attitude towards my fellow countrymen is this. I am willing to help those who are TRULY in need. I do not want to create a system where the lazy and the stupid are rewarded for either because we do not need more of them.

These people (the 45 million) are getting medical care. While it is not in the most efficient way, they are still being care for. We can fix the problem without putting a government bureaucrat at the foot of the bed. They are worse than an insurance company.

[obscurerussell]

What is your basis for this final statement? Why is a government bureaucrat worse than an insurance company exec? You told me that insurance companies are in it to make a profit, and thus they weigh the health of their clients against their profit margin. A public option would be a non-profit, and thus your argument is negated. In addition, the government already runs a fantastic public insurance option called Medicare. Look it up!

[CommonSenseJoe]

I can change my insurance company. I can control how much coverage I want and how much I want to pay for it. I can go to any doctor I want if I want to pay for it out of my own pocket.

Once the government run healthcare, all of your options are gone. You take what they give, or you get nothing, unless your rich.

Medicare is not "fantastic". It is on verge of collapse. The government has cut the reimbursements so far that providers are no longer accept Medicare assignment. Look it up!

[spasticdeath]

I wish I could have health insurance. I haven't had it since I was diagnosed with a pre-existing condition. If I were to become seriously ill, I would just suffer and die. I pay taxes. I work hard. I'm only 37 and it's been over 11 years since I had coverage. If something serious happens to me before I'm 65, my only option is a self-inflicted gun shot to the head.

[CommonSenseJoe]

You can still get insurance if you exclude your pre-existing condition from coverage. You should also check with your state government for high risk insurance programs. You can still be treated by a hospital and apply for assistance through medicaid or other programs.

Stop waiting for someone else to take responsibility for you. Do what you can to deal with your situation.

[spasticdeath]

Insurance companies want previous medical records. Plus, that's illegal. Why pay for insurance if I can't have my medical condition addressed? I've been dealing with my situation for 17 years. I know what my state offers. I can go to the ER room but Medicaid assistance is for those under the poverty line (homeless). Also, the state pays for that at full cost. Finally, to insinuate I don't take responsibility for myself is bullshit, you ignorant fuck. You know nothing about me or my situation.

[CommonSenseJoe]

I know what insurance companies want. I have bought my own insurance for decades. I have had medical conditions excluded and paid out of my pocket for them. I would have been great if someone had promised me cheaper health insurance and near free medical care. However learned long ago, nothing is free.

If you don't like my insinuation, don't whine in a public forum about your "situation". You are not the only one in world with a problem. Fix it yourself. Get a job with benefits.

[spasticdeath]

Whatever. Fuck off. You wouldn't have shit to say about whining if we were face to face.

[CommonSenseJoe]

Yeah, everyone is a tough guy on the internet.

[spasticdeath]

You're the one with prick attitude. However, I doubt you're quick to be a prick when you're conversing with someone face to face. Machismo isn't in the equation. But let's just cut to the chase. You're mad because the U.S. is not going to be majority white. It sickens you to see the younger people of America think racism and nationalism is foolish. They want to experience and learn from other cultures instead of chanting, "USA is #1!" You despise the fact that a black man is president.

[CommonSenseJoe]

What does race have to do with this? I have no trouble speaking my mind to punks with your attitude. Being young is no excuse for being stupid. This is not about nationalism either. We are the greatest nation in the world. We feed the world. We supply the medicines for the rest of the world.

We have a man who is President. I don't see him as black or white. I just see him as being wrong and deceptive. If you want to continue believing the lies, go ahead.

[spasticdeath]

Ha ha ha ha!

"This is not about nationalism either. We are the greatest nation in the world."

Ha ha ha ha!

Did you see Bush as deceptive with Iraq? How about Reagan with Iran Contra?

Oh yeah, me so stupid. That's why I'm getting my master's degree right now as I work two part time jobs that don't offer health benefits so that maybe someday I can have a job with benefits.

Ha ha ha ha!

[CommonSenseJoe]

If you think a master's degree will get you a good job, you are stupid.

I understand now why you think the way you do.

No, Bush was not deceptive on Iraq. Reagan screwed the Democrats in the Senate. I loved it.

[spasticdeath]

Well, I'm glad we understand each other. I don't ever take sides based on political stand points otherwise I wouldn't be supportive of gun rights. It's clearly obvious, you're a "my team" guy if you think Bush was honest about Iraq. We'll see about the master's degree and job status. It's not a clear shot but the industry I want to get into usually requires one. Have fun putting people down for trying. It's really noble behavior. I gotta go hit the books and then go get laid. I'm sure you don't.

[CommonSenseJoe]

I doubt you understand me at all.

As for President Bush, he was honest about Iraq. I would not expect you to understand the concept of strategy. I am glad he did.

[mrburningone]

"Bush was HONEST about the Iraq war?"

And what alternate reality are you living in, or is this part of the whole revisionist conservative history like saying that Jimmy Carter was the worst president of modern times, while COMPLETELY ignoring that other guy...uh, what's his name...oh yeah...RICHARD M. NIXON.

Bush was honest about the whole "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION" debacle.uh, huh.

I suppose next you'll try to sell us some "prime real estate" in New Orleans.

[CommonSenseJoe]

Saddam was in violation of the cease-fire agreement. He was trying to get an WMD. He had some biological weapons. He had prohibited weapons under the agreement. Sooner or later, he would have gotten a weapon and used it against us.

[mrburningone]

Oh yeah and let's not forget that Al Qaeda was secretly in league with Saddam and that HE was the actual mastermind behind 9/11...pah-lease...this argument was settled last November 4th and guess what, YOU LOST.

I know, I know, it's the conservative ideology that if you repeat a LIE enough times, people will start to believe it, but hate to break this to you, not all of us are actually that STUPID.

[CommonSenseJoe]

Avoid the facts, and make up the other sides argument for them. Now that is stupid.

What did November 4th have to do with Iraq? We are still there because the President KNOWS we need to be.

[mrburningone]

And incase you were too far up Sean Hannity's ass during the entire last general election campaign, Iraq had EVERYTHING to do with November 4, 2008, or maybe you haven't heard that U.S. troops are now shifting the majority of responsibility to the Iraqi government and security forces, but what was that McCain had said?

"We'll be there for a hundred years.", about as long as he's been alive. I'm sure if neocons had their way, McCain would have just kicked and Palin would push the button.

[mrburningone]

Let's see, what is the count now?

Betsy McCaughey? Big corporate shill for the insurance complex?

FIRED!!!

Dick Armey? (Who names these people?)

Freedomworks liar?

FIRED!!!

The list just keeps growing and growing the more all of the conservolies continue to be exposed for what they really are and come this Fall, there will be a healthcare bill signed by president Barack Hussein Obama and it WILL have a public option.

It's just like I predicted the DOW would be back above 10k pts by Sept.

[CommonSenseJoe]

Actually, Dick Armey resigned.

There will be a healthcare bill signed. No one doubts that at all. The real question will be how badly it hurts President OBama chances of a second term.

[mrburningone]

Tell you what, Joe-The-Not-So-Informed, why don't you go and hang out at one of your "them liberals are commies" vids and yuck it up with your neocon buddies because none of US are buying your BULLSHIT here.

[CommonSenseJoe]

I guess that is the best you can come up with.

[mrburningone]

Or try and push the idealogical garbage that like a Palinism, "Dinosaurs were Jesus ponies!!"

It's people like you that must honestly think that the rest of us are simply as gullible as yourself, but if you take just a quick moment to pull your head from your ass, you'll see that the country has moved on from all your conservative delusions and chosen a BETTER path and that conservatives are quickly dying the death of political extinction, no matter what LIES Fux News tries to sell.

[CommonSenseJoe]

You are dreaming. More people are conservative than liberal. Keep pushing the socialism and watch how fast the President's rating fall.

[mrburningone]

Yeah, i've heard that LIE also and it's no real surprise that it comes from Fux News sources and their conservative bloggers and lunatic right wing radio.

"More people are conservative than liberal", so I suppose that's why John McCain won the 08' election with such a huge margin, huh? Oh wait, he DIDN'T.

Here's what I know about conservatives, they have narrow minds and selective hearing and are easier to control with a bible and a lie than just a lie and that is exactly why you lose.

[mrburningone]

I've listening to YOU PEOPLE all my adult life and from everything i've ever seen, you haven't done shit for this country but make the rich richer and the poor poorer and if conservatives really had their way, we would all be eating Jesus cookies and living in the dark ages.

Conservatives are ALL THE SAME, they always want to make sure that they get whatever they want, but NOT anyone else, OH NO!!

Stay away from MY socialism!!

That's what this really means.

[CommonSenseJoe]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Conservatives are what make this country work. That's because we work. We don't expect a government handout for anything and everything.

[mrburningone]

Rednecks in Hickville USA watching their NASCAR and Hillbilly music and living off the government handouts they already get like TnCare(google it), medicare/medicaid, SCHIP, WIC, welfare, workers compensation, ad nauseam, but talk about a program that EXTENDS medicare and they get all "don't touch MY socialism!!!".

Ok, fine. You all say healthcare reform is "socialism", then take away EVERYTHING else.

Mine as well take out the "socialist public school system" as well.

FDA, FCC, FAA, etc.

[mrburningone]

You have no argument because, once again as is becoming more and more evident to the American people, conservatives are all about disinformation and out right lies.

That's why this August recess was so productive for the democratic congress to show how sick and mentally twisted conservatives REALLY are on the outside with their hyperbole and useless "socialism" and "death panel" arguments.

I know, I know. Fux News says healthcare is dying, but trust me, you're so far from the truth.

[CommonSenseJoe]

Where have I lied? You cannot even say for sure what is going to be in "the bill" because the President won't take a stand on anything.

[mrburningone]

YOU PEOPLE are like Moonies of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon church of loonies. Standing on the side of bridges and overpasses with your bible thumping rhetoric and disgusting subhumans like Westboro Baptist Church Fred Phelps saying that 9/11 was god's judgement on the USA for homosexuals.

THIS IS WHO YOU PEOPLE REALLY ARE.

Is what you represent and AMERICA is starting to see you for what you are and in the coming generations, YOUR KIND will become socially and culturally extinct.

[mrburningone]

BTW, the DOW Jones is at present 9,505.96...are you a betting man?

[CommonSenseJoe]

Funny, I thought the DOW Jones did not matter. I thought MAIN street mattered. How about that unemployment rate going up? Any ideas when that is going to top out?

[mrburningone]

I love the right wing talking points, because they're so full of holes that you can't even hold them up for very long without being laughed at by the majority.

"Wut 'bout main street?"

Pah-lease, Joe-The-Unlicensed-Plumber.

It's morons like you with no secondary education that are the real drag on society while you take your ques from illiterate dickheads like Wurzelbacher aka failed politcal prop.

You obviously haven't been to the south.

Conservatives DON'T work, they take gov. handouts.

[CommonSenseJoe]

Is that the best your great education can do, insult? I have lots of education. The problem is not education. You people don't think for yourselves. You don't run businesses or employ people. You don't understand human nature or the greatest of this country. What happens when there is no more "rich" to demonized and exploit?

[mrburningone]

"Liberals don't run businesses, or employ people?"

What planet, or even better, what country do you live in because it's certainly NOT the United States.

Liberals OWN most of the major businesses that employee millions of people across this nation and are more about "thinking for themselves" with more innovation and progressive ideas than ANY conservative could pull out of their ass.

We own the labs, the software development, the medical research institutes.

Seriously, what world are you in?

[CommonSenseJoe]

Tell me, how many companies did OBama run before becoming President?

"Employing millions of people" really? Do they all have healthcare? Are they all union workers? Do they make a profit and sell drugs at the cheapest price possible? How much do the CEO's make?

[mrburningone]

There IS the section in HR 3200 that deals with hospice care and living wills, which have been the focus of this whole "death panels" debate and quite disgustingly by conservatives, I might add, but what this ALL boils down to is that in the current economy, which did start good on the DOW this morning before dropping back to it's begining; that they're afraid the fed is going to take away from their own gov. benefits to subsidize those who are uninsured.

[CommonSenseJoe]

It was not focus. It was not even really about the specific bill. It was about the whole notion of the government, in charge of healthcare and in a position to make treatment choices for individuals.

What does the bill to lower costs? You cannot insure more people without increasing the costs.

[wiskawind]

RepublicanTrollJoe,

Troll, Troll, Troll, like I said, you better set up a new page, you stinking Republican TROLL! LOL

As you have been spotted, and NO ONE is buying your phony BS today!

Friggen low life TROLL!

[CommonSenseJoe]

What does my "page" have to do with anything?

I realize you have nothing to contribute to the discussion.

[wiskawind]

RepublicanTrollJoe,

The only reason you have a page on You Tube, is to troll for the GOP!

You come in pretending to be a regular Joe, interested in the health care debate, but all you really do is spread fear and doubt in the minds of the people; just like a dog trying to turn a herd of sheep for his master. A TROLL!

A low life bottom feeder, who doesnt give a crap about America or its people!

[SuckersTillTheEnd]

Yeah but all these new people would be paying premiums.

[mrburningone]

So I ask you, stating that you work with low income individuals, are we as Americans going to put this off again for a third time while insurance CEO's give themselves million dollar bonuses and show profits in the billions now?

What's next, they start showing profits in the trillions and those without insurance just die?

THAT'S the true definition of euthanasia and NOT because the eldery have their hospice care and living wills discussed with their doctor and the physician is reimbursed.

[CommonSenseJoe]

What the CEO of any company makes is not relevant to the debate on healthcare. No one is suggesting that there are not problems that need to be fixed. However liberals think all the problems are caused by the health insurance companies. In large part, the FEDERAL government is the problem. It promised care to seniors, but refused to cover the full cost. This resulted in the spiraling increase in costs.

[wiskawind]

RepublicanTrollJoe,

GOP Troll alert!

This guy is a bottom feeder for the GOP!

All he wants to do is screw the American people out of the health care they so desperately need.

You really should be ashamed of yourself Joe, as you have NO honor!

[SuckersTillTheEnd]

Gee maybe the "costs" are some what high to begin with eh? Ever been to the hospital while uninsured? I have and I can tell you you'd be pissing razors if you ever did too. The "cost" is often unreasonable and fvcking ridiculous and unjustifiable to me and probably any other sane person as well but go ahead and ACT like the gov is the main one at fault. How can the gov fund an industry in need of heavy regulation? lol You don't even realize that your argument is backward.

[mrburningone]

Where is the end game if we do nothing?

How far does this rabbit hole go for the insurance complex controlling the lives of so many people and not just the sick, but also the healthy who are forced to pay ever increasing premiums each year because if we do nothing now, it's like telling them it's OK to keep going on with "business as usual".

Reform has to be a clear signal to the status quo that this greed in healthcare won't go on anymore.

It STOPS now, before it's too late.

[CommonSenseJoe]

No one is suggesting that we do nothing except the Democrats. To them it is imperative that they get control over the whole industry or their failure in Medicare and Medicaid will become apparent.

[wiskawind]

RepublicanTrollJoe,

Don't listen to anything, Joe, has to say!

He is a Troll for the GOP, and he has been trolling every video about health care, fear mongering to the masses.

He doesn't give a rat's ass about America or its people; he is trolling for the GOP.

Check out his page, these GOP Trolls are all over you tube, and they are easy to spot!

(smile)

[mrburningone]

The very simple facts here are the bottom line numbers that if you and your conservocons contiue to distort the healthcare debate into meaningless and hostile rhetoric, then you give incentive for the giant insurance complex to raise rates and deny care and underwrite policy for decades to come until it literally breaks the U.S. economy by 2016.

The very same conservative ideology was against FDR when the Social Security Act was signed and just think how things would be now without it.

[CommonSenseJoe]

We are not distorting the debate because there is no debate. What "reforms" does the President want? What does he want to change? Healthcare, health insurance, tort laws? What specifically does he want? Does anyone really know?

[mrburningone]

You've obviously been living in a cave if you don't know what healthcare reforms are being proposed because they're all pretty direct.

No discrimination for pre-existing conditions.

Providing a public option exchange for middle to low income uninsured individuals who are presently unable to afford insurance will be under some incremental subsidies from the federal government much like Blue Cross/Blue Sheild works through Medicare/Medicaid.

[CommonSenseJoe]

There is so much confusion among the Democrats and the President, it is hard to no exactly what is being proposed.

So tell me, how exactly to you make an insurance company cover an individual with a pre-existing condition? They will not write insurance for someone who they know they will LOSE money on. Either they will charge an outrageously high premium or not even handle health insurance anymore. That means fewer companies, and less choice. Right?

[mrburningone]

You're a slave to the idea that if we let the free market reign with no regulations that somehow those in power will drop enough scraps off the table for the rest of us to survive and THAT is the purest definition of tyranny and what we fought against in the Revolutionary War to gain our independence.

It's almost as if conservatives believe that the majority of Americans are all rich and once again I ask you, what country do you actually live in?

[CommonSenseJoe]

When did I ever say "no regulations"? I am not rich and work with poor people all the time. I want the greatest number of people to succeed in America as possible. I don't want people to die or starve or be taken advantage of.

I realize that the government has it's roles. I think there are changes that need to be made in healthcare. The problem is that no one is discussing those changes. This is not about reform, but a takeover.

[mrburningone]

But hey, it's YOUR call to be a coservative and good luck with that, but just do me one favor and go tell all your conservative friends and their families to make sure this Fall to totally reject that whole "socialist government vaccination program" for H1N1 because we don't want any pitiful conservatives whining about how they were saved from a pandemic by becoming a "socialist".

If conservatives ever stopped long enough to just listen to how mundane their arguments are, they would shut up.

[CommonSenseJoe]

I am not sure any of them want this H1N1 vaccine. There are questions about how safe it is.

It is a false line of reasoning to equate everything government does with socialism. It is not.

[mrburningone]

I'll have to admit one thing about the Obama administration that we're ALL really pissed off about on the left and the right still tries to admonish him against and that's a TOTAL investigation into Bush era war crimes and prosecutions.

This new report from the DOJ appointing a special prosecutor does nothing to that end and looks more like lip service than anything, so the next time you and your neocons are on about Obama, remember he's not as LEFT as even we would like him to be.

[CommonSenseJoe]

There is nothing to investigate. As president, OBama knows what Bush did was absolutely necessary. He cannot say that, but he knows. That is why he is continuing everything Bush did.

[mrburningone]

Attorney General Holder is not held to the same political path as the president of the United States; let's remember, this is NOT the Bush administration where the law can so easily be 'bent' for politcal agendas like raising a terror threat level during a general election, or authorizing the use of Nazi Getsapo interrogation techniques against the Geneva Convention that WE signed as the LAW.

Unlike conservatives, WE are not barbarians.

[CommonSenseJoe]

That is all hype. No one died or was injured by the techniques. The level was not raised.

[spasticdeath]

A public option is an option not some government take over. You can choose to be insured by whoever you want and I can finally be insured. Why is that such a problem for you when it doesn't have any effect on you?

[CommonSenseJoe]

As I have explained before, a public option is a government takeover if it is not self-sustaining. If the government uses tax dollars to pay for your healthcare, private insurance companies will not be able to compete and will leave the market. That effects me because I cannot buy health insurance from them. All that will be left is the public option.

If the public option is self-sustaining, meaning that is pays for itself by charging YOU premiums which cover the cost of your care. GREAT!

[melora72]

If Medicare doesn't cover the whole cose, the patient pays the balance. I have to pay $45 per visit to see one of my doctors. Providers don't lose money.

You might be confusing Medicare with Medicaid. Some people are turned down because Medicaid wont cover enough of the cost. The public option will be more like Medicare. People pay a premium (I pay $97/month). There are deductables and copays. No dental. But they don't drop you when you get sick like health insurance companies do.

[zizizzi]

Yes, blame the government for not taking control of the situation much sooner.

Know that the insurance companies don't give a shit about your health. They just want your money so that their CEOs can buy more mansions and bigger jets.

Pay your bloated premiums for years and then see what they say when you are sick or injured.

[TheGiantRobot]

The one thing that I find really disappointing about the left is I haven't heard anyone besides Kucinich mentioning the fact that the insurance companies have a provision in these bills that says if you don't have insurance, you have to buy it, by law.

Insurance companies don't control all health care. Yet.

If no one brings this up and one of these bills passes, the insurance companies will be rubbing their hands in glee and once again the left will have sold us out.

[zizizzi]

I've heard a lot about that on Pacifica Radio. They ARE talking about it. We're just not getting it in the Main Stream Media.

[TheGiantRobot]

I see. Well, I get emails from MoveOn, Courage, Credo, Acorn, the White House, my two Senators and my congresswoman and none of them have mentioned it yet.

[zizizzi]

Yes, I get emails from the same orginizations. No mention of the mandate.

But on Pacifica Radio I heard a few segments on how the mandate to buy insurance without a public option is nothing more than a giveaway to the insurance companies, and how this has been their plan all along...

I have written to Move On, Courage Campaign, Credo, Democrats for America, and others asking them to take on this issue.

Crickets...

[jeffbw]

Sure as hell not getting it on PBS. The two talking heads tonight were from Politico and AEI, both of whom more or less agreed that Democrats need to give up the public option or go down in flames in 2010.

[RonPaulGeorgeRingo]

I think that PBS (for the most part) is FAR more credible than cable and major network "news" (which have become a total joke from what I see).

[zizizzi]

We need to write to PBS and demand that they cover this issue!

[TheGiantRobot]

I think it's good. I think the way it really happens is much scarier and much more stressful, with all the paper work and games and run around, but maybe this ad will remind people - oh yeah, now I remember how my insurance company treats me.

[SuperEvilC]

Great ad... we need more like this.

[obamawalker]

Overdone but true.

[jeffbw]

Overdone?

[lohanaddict]

this is pretty cool!

[gameshowguy2000]

Right..if the message is serious, the ad itself needs to be serious.

[cheezbawl2003]

Death isn't serious enough for you? This advertisement is exactly what people need to see. All this fearmongering about "Government death panels" and no mention about the death panels that already exist.

[misterhuman]

This ad's heart is in the right place but I'm not sure that using the funny-but-racially-charged "Airplane" scene as a jumping off point was wise. We need to be squeaky clean and crystal clear when dealing with the sort of insanity the opposition generates.