1950's Traditional Worldliness

[merryredollie]

Very relevant considering I'm studying Politics

[RelyOnChrist777]

False preaching!! God does care about what Bible to use and what clothing to wear and what kind of music to play !!!

[piinthesky1368]

@RelyOnChrist777 I don't see the falseness. I think if you stretch it as far as you do saying that God doesn't care if we listen to music that degrades women and promotes sin in it's lyrics, I'd agree that God cares. But God loves worship music as much from an organ in Oklahoma to an electric guitar in California to a bongo in the middle of the African desert. He never mentions what Bible to use, only certain books that are in EVERY translation of the Bible. And God didn't invent suits, men did.

[patrckhh20]

@drumrnva Its really amazing that you could miss the point of the video by that much.

[drumrnva]

@patrckhh20 OK, break it down for me please. Tell me the point that Driscoll's making. Thanks-

[dliberty1988]

I pity the people that swallow this stuff up. I really do. You search the scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life. You don't know Jesus-He is standing right in front of you. It's not about being right or wrong. It's about knowing him. People like this are exactly the reason so many people shut out God. I hate this crap with a passion because it shuts out people from really knowing the heart of God. The only people the pissed Jesus off were religious people like this guy.

[cimminom]

@dliberty1988

What are you talking about? You just maligned a man, now explain yourself.

[dliberty1988]

@dliberty1988 - Jesus didn't have a lot of good things to say to the Pharisees either.I don't apologize for the things I said because much of what this man says places people in bondage. Knowing the heart of God is what it's about isn't it? When I hear this man speak I don't hear His heart. My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me. I don't hear Jesus in this man. I hear law and condemnation. God is love and if this man represents love, no thanks.

[devmanification]

@dliberty1988 No, he's the reason ppl embrace God. He shuts out the rigidness of those who make Christianity seem like tyranny, a bunch of rigid rules to make some ppl's lives miserable.

[MrNewkingjames]

Why do these guys dress like jonny cash?

[Jerkwad152]

@MrNewkingjames

Because Johnny Cash is that cool. :)

[Pfsif]

How about a worldly organization with one man at the top (CEO) with some seconds in commands, below that helper till you get to the lowest rung on the ladder. Sounds like a church to me?

[07wurd]

"... go back to Jesus!" THAT'S RIGHT!

[jimboo40]

My parents need to hear this. My dad still thinks prohibition was a good idea, "Back when America was America!" he says... Oh, I love my parents!

[unleasheth]

point blank, God doesnt want you liking or wanting or desiring anything else that would take your eye off the ball....HIM!! Its not hard to understand so dont make it complicated. You dont need a lenghthy description just need to know that ALL of the the things IN and OF this world can take you away from GOD. THAT IS WORLDLINESS

[TheDrpretorious]

Man in his ignorance created god. Man in his wisdom let go of foolish beliefs.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious so 80-90% of the world is ignorant? and were ignorant for as long as there has been culture and religion?

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 It is rather foolish to believe in something in which there is no evidence, particurally when you choose to base your life around it. However I was more referring to the dismissal of science and reason for unscientific and unreasonable claims i.e. religion.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious Who's dismissing science? and by "no evidence" do you mean scientific evidence using the scientific method?

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 There's plenty of theists that dismiss science, I've even seen some of it on this channel. And yes I mean evidence that holds up to the scientific method.

[1rubensito1]

But the scientific method requires that the subject be visible, measurable, and repeatable. You can't do that with history.The Bible is a book of historical events that capture supernatural events that happened years ago, with the accounts of 40+ authors who were eyewitnesses and wrote their books around other eyewitnesses in a period of 1500 years, with 6000 manuscripts dug up over time. Try proving through the scientific method that Darwin wrote and believed his book.

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 You just proved my point actually. First of allyou describe the bible as book of historical and "supernatural" events. Scientifically speaking there is no such thing as the supernatural. And those supernatural events can be disproved using the scientific method as the events were not and are not repeatable, i.e. we've seen nothing of the sort of events described, in the past 2000 years or so, that couldn't be correctly identified as someother phenomenon.

[1rubensito1]

Your missing the first two parts of the scientific method: Visible, and Measurable. We didn't see it happen, we only have historical documents by those who did. We can't measure the activities since again we would need to be there and or have the subjects to work with. You say, "we can't repeat it, and it never happened again, so it never happened". History cannot be proven with the scientific method, that's what I want you to understand.

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 Again you prove my point. It is not visible, measureable, or repeatable. If having a story wrote into a book is evidence enough for you to believe in a god, then you must also believe in werewolves, vampires, ghosts, gnomes, wizards,etc, etc.

[1rubensito1]

If this story is historically accurate: with dates, events, names of real peoples and real ancient cities. And we have used the "story" to discover places thought lost with uncanny accuracy. If the prophecies in the book have come true, and are coming true. If it has survived thousands of years and it's somehow the only ancient book with 6000 manuscripts and thousands upon thousands of notes. It's got a lot of evidence to me.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious now my point is, can you prove history through the scientific method? Can we prove that Alexander the Great existed scientifically? What about Plato? Can we prove that it was he who actually wrote the Allegory of the Cave? Using the scientific method?

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 No, of course no. History as we know may be vastly different from the events that actually happened, which is a further strike against religion.

[1rubensito1]

DUDE! Not everything can be proven by the scientific method! AND THAT'S OK! We have other methods lol. Science is a great tool to learn about how the physical things which God has created work, it has its limits like everything else. The method used for history is the Evidentiary Method, the same used in a court of law. Times, dates, witness accounts, reasonings, and ideas are what make up History my friend

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious The scientific method is measuring stick. It's extremely useful in many things. But like all tools, it can't be used to measure everything because then you'll get incorrect measurements. Try measuring you I.Q. with a yard stick. Or using mathematical equations to figure out the mind of a Woman lol, (I would LOVE if you could do that).

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 Look, all I've been saying is that none of the claims in the bible have held up scientifically. Not Noahs flood, the talking snake, the ressurection, none of it. You've provided nothing to counter that. Because you can't. No, you can't figure out people using a mathematical equation, but you can use psychology, and logic. And that's where religion fails, it doesn't hold up to logic.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious Because your trying to repeat the unrepeatable! They were super-natural! GOD did them, and the people at the time were in awe! The Bible is more than just claims my friend, you should at the very least know that. You say " Well.. Man can't repeat it" and I say "I know! ". Let's not get started with "logic", Logic is a whole other good tool, used out of proportion, that when pushed to it's core leads to some wicked things.

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 It's not just that man can't repeat , neither can god. It hasn't happened in recent history or ever. And logic doesn't lead to wicked things, people do. People who tell you otherwise are merely trying to control you. Your pastor, the douchebag in these videos, your teachers, your parents. It's all a form of control. Think for yourself.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious it hasn't happened? and your antithesis for this? Logic (used incorrectly) tells me that if we are all just a cosmic accident, and that only the fit survive, and that morality is subjective...I can pretty much do as I please. "oh but you should do good", Why? "because it benefits society" Why should I care about society? "because it makes you a good person" Why? and we go in circles from there.

[1rubensito1]

You speak about control, as if Atheism is a great liberator. What am I now free to do evil? What is wrong in the eyes of God? "Well no, you have to abide by the rules" What rules? Who cares, life is meaningless, and any meaning one puts to life will not coexist with the "meaning" of others. When you take God out of the picture my friend, you have a huge void in morality. You always have to try and replace Him with something else -c>

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 You are free to make your own decisions, and ascertain for yourself what is right and wrong. One mans evil can be negligable, or even positive to another. Morality is subjective and not everyone is ready to make these decisions for themselves.

[1rubensito1]

Whether it be yourself, your family, friends, money, fame, ambitions, sex, drugs, violence, RELIGION, sports, hobbies. We all want to fill that emptiness inside, but my question is, Why do we have that emptiness to begin with? If life is meaningless, why do we seek meaning? If I were blind and never knew the light, I wouldn't be seeking it since I'm ignorant to it's existence.

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 I never said life was meaningless and in fact believe the opposite. However meaning is supplied by the individual. Some devote their lives to scence, others religion, most simply try to live a happy life.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious I do wish we could have this conversation in person lol, this comment thing is testing my patience. May I suggest a book, and then you can do the same? It's called "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis, if you haven't read it- give it a try. I strongly feel you would get something good out of it.

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 I assume I'm supposed to suggest a book that best supports my view of atheism. Well the best book I could think of to fit that bill would be the bible. Honestly have you ever read the whole thing straght through?

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious Honestly, I read almost all of it. (except some of the minor prophets which I read now in order to understand more). I'm going to be completely honest, there is no way you will start to comprehend the books and events in the Bible until you comprehend it's elementary purposes. It's like reading a calculus book when you don't know 2+2. And in order to comprehend the main purpose of scripture and of the gospel you've got to let go of your pride -c>

[1rubensito1]

 and your assumptions. Your going to have to stop looking at the ultra religious "pharisees" who make a mockery of Christ, at those who say "there is no truth", and just open your heart to God. I know you might not want to because you don't believe in Him but seriously, look at us! Look at the World! I know you must listen to the same news I do at some points and the monstrosities that occur daily are horrific!

[1rubensito1]

We see justified murder, 13 year old pregnant girls, tyrants, thieves of massive proportions, discrimination, ignorance, idolatry in the sense of kids getting depressed over musicians or actors! We say "oh that's wrong", ignoring the fact that WE ourselves have the same potential to do many of those things!! If you think not, when was the last time someone pissed you off that you thought of how you could hurt them? Or times you thought REALLY inappropriate thoughts about another person?

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious When we realize that there is something wrong in the world and that it's US, and that we can't change by ourselves- religion, philosophy, government, education have tried and failed- that's when you turn to Christ. The Bible speaks that He didn't come here for those who were "good" (or so they think), but for those who know they are fallen and need help.

[1rubensito1]

The first thing, my friend, one must do to understand Christianity is to know the ultimate truth of this corrupt world- That we are evil by nature and we can't change on our own. I know that sounds horrible- it is. But there is a reason why the Gospel is referred to as the "Good News". "God so loved the world.." (John 3:16) You know that verse right? Thats the equivalent of "2+2" in Christianity. Know that we deserved damnation, and instead Christ came and died for us.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious That GOD himself had to become Man, sinless, perfect, and Die! That's how far we've fallen. It took that in order for us to be saved. If you can understand that basic element, you can understand everything it took to get to that historic moment. But as always you must be willing to accept this in your heart!

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.-Matthew 7:7. If you truly want to know about God- seek him. humble yourself and ask him to reveal himself to you. I know you have doubts and questions, and the Bible doesn't seem clear yet, but I'm telling you- if you honestly, humbly, seek him from the heart- he won't reject you.

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 Interesting that you should bring up humility, I was having a discussion with a friend today and we actually came to the conclusion that atheists are actually much more humble in the respect that we don't profess to know the secrets of the universe while if you ask a theist, he can usually tell you exactly (from his point of view) how the universe was created, how long ago and so forth. My point here is the more humble position is that of I don't know.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious Anyone who says they are more humble than anyone else isn't humble at all lol (believe me, I struggle with that as a Christian)

And if I were to tell you the story of creation from the Bible, I'm not giving you my opinion, or a secret since it's widely available, I'm just repeating what the Word of God says. But! I do agree on the position of I don't know being a humble position. But if God gives the answer to that, and we say we don't know-we are lying

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 I'mnot saying I'm any more humble than you, but I do think the position of I don't know is a more humble point of view than saying "I know I'm right about everything because it says it in the bible". As to the bible being the word of god, wheres the proof? The only proof for any of the outlandish claims in the bible is the bible. So theres just as much proof for vampires, wizards, ghosts etc.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious let's prove the pudding taste good without tasting the pudding. Let's prove that science works without using science! or better yet let's prove that you and i are having this conversation without using the conversation we just had! That argument doesn't hold up my friend.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious We aren't right about anything!! lol That's the point of why we believe in Christ! Those who use the Bible as a way to puff themselves up are pharisees and they've got what's coming to them. But for those who truly know Jesus, we know that the word is truth but not in order to boast about it but to spread the Good news of Christ to the world. Christians are screw-ups that God has chosen to show the world how screwed up it is, and to live for Him not ourselves.

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 First you say you aren't right about anything, then you say the word of the bible is truth, implying that it's absolutely infallible. It would be nice if you got your story straight man. As for your second point about living for god, why not do like I and many others do and simply live for the betterment of your fellow man and leave god out of the picture.

[1rubensito1]

I ment my statement, it's just hard to explain it to someone who doesn't believe in the Bible. That's why I want you to try and understand the point I made in all those comments you sort of ignored lol.

The reason why I don't leave God out of the picture is because without him there is none. Man fails, miserably. The idea of all humans being able to somehow become "moral" without God is old- and it failed multiple times. The Greek philosophy, The Enlightenment, atheism in the 1800, Communism.

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 Seeing as how concepts that arose out of Greek philosophy and the Enlightenment( such as democracy and the stressing of logic and reason) have shaped the world we live in today I don't think you can say that they failed. Yes the governments, the rulers, might have changed but the ideas remained.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious the ideas had a goal. Now one has to ask them self: was the goal achieved? The enlightenment shaped "western" thinking my friend not all the world. Communism had a lot to do with the shaping of the world. The US itself was shaped by not only the enlightenment followers but by Christians whom were also going through the reformation.

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 No the entire world hasn't undertaken a single philosophy(nor should it) but with your point about the enlightenment only shaping the western world, are you arguing the point that the eastern world is better? Isn't democracy (a "western" ideal) preferable to a theocracy? And let us not forget that Christianity(along with Judaism and Islam) arose in the east.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious As long as humans are fallen, and broken beings they will make any sort of idea or governing methods corrupt. No matter how "perfect" one might think it is, we all know that humans will always find loopholes; So no, I don't think any "world" is better as long as we are still broken and corrupted by sin. I have to ask if I was any help?

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 I would agree that no system of government is perfect, nor any person. However, I highly disagree with the theist concept of humans being "broken" or "fallen". Particuraly since the answer to this condition is invariably religion, one of the most corrupt systems on the planet.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious AH Progress! lol

Religion is corrupt, and I'll tell you how it works since I used to be religious and sometimes catch myself in the act. Religion tells people that they are wrong and you are right and that they should follow your rules in order to be good. NOw you might say "Isn't that Christianity?" But that's where the difference is.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious Christianity doesn't say "follow these rules and you'll get to heaven". The Bible is specific when it says that we are not saved by our works, or actions, but by the grace and mercy of God. Our own "good" deeds are like filthy rags unto God, they are meaningless. It also says that any good that we do as Christians is only possible by the same grace that saved us, so we cannot boast of our deeds since they're not of our own doing but of God's.

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 Having your actions have no effect on getting to heaven is one of the sillier things about christianity. Almost as silly as saying that any good deeds you do are the work of god. It's just an absolvement of personal responsibility just the same as saying "the devil made me do it". It's not the devil making you do bad things or god making you do good things. It's you.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious like I said, this is one of those topics where you need the Christian basics in order to go further, or it will all sound weird. We are saved by God by grace, and the fruit of our faith in God is our works which is the justification of our salvation. This is getting way too deep into Christian theology when we need to get to the main point which is your heart.

[1rubensito1]

Please go back to my previous comments about Christ. I could be wrong, but it seems as though you avoided or ignored them and switched topics a couple of times. I don't want us to continue just talking about the profound parts when I don't know if you accept the main point. It would be like studying the complexity of the brush strokes in one of Da'vinci's paintings but, ignoring the beauty of the overall picture.

[TheDrpretorious]

@1rubensito1 Looking at the overall story of a fairy-tale, it too might be beautiful but that doesn't make it true.You're trying to convince me that the bible is true and Christ god(or son of god, however you interpret it) when you have failed to convince me of a god in the first place.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious That is why I suggested the book by C.S. Lewis very early in our convo. He goes about it in a much better way- starting from nothing to God. I don't have the literary prowess he does, and hopefully he will be of some help. I hope that if you ever start to see that there is a God, you could come back to this and know which one is the true God.

[1rubensito1]

@TheDrpretorious We are to humbly serve the poor, the fatherless, and the widows. While also proclaiming Christ with our words, our actions, and our lifestyles. I believe this is the main fault in Christianity today that we as Christians aren't living the way we preach we should. I definitely haven't and I've apologized to Christ and to those who saw my "great" example and turned away from God because of it.

[1rubensito1]

The Holocaust happened. We have pictures and videos. But someone can easily say that those are false (and it has happened), because photos and videos can be manipulated. What then matters? The lives affected, those who witnessed it first hand. Whose parents, brothers and sisters, friends DIED in horrible ways. The pictures, the uniforms, the videos, the camps- all that proves the event; But not as much as the experience of a woman who saw her family die infront of her

[oooop95]

Amen!!!!

[lucasdasilvamaria]

Yeaaaahhh!!!!!

[lucasdasilvamaria]

That's what i would call a MASTER. He explains in words what the Spirit has instructed in feelings and impressions.

[Flowdy81]

Yeaaaahhh!!!!!

[wisdomlistens20]

wow it was like you where speaking the words my heart has always known,,,thanks i gained a new understanding today....seek first the kingdom of heaven

[FreeChristianResourc]

Great video from Mark Driscoll on wordliness. Wordliness is not a specific world view view, but anything other than a view of life through Jesus

[LinkD3]

That is an awesome way to word it!

I might have to steal that sentence if you don't mind. haha :)

[FreeChristianResourc]

Go for it!

[devanaire]

I hate it when Christians take things that aren't bad and say " that's so EARTHLY" or "we look too much like the world." People throw it around.

[habsfan170]

well, you may hate it, but that's what the Bible teaches. 1 John 2: 15-17

[devanaire]

@habsfan170 u missed my point. Ppl call things worldly and earthly when they are not. We as believers abuse that word.

[devanaire]

@habsfan170 The bible does NOT teach us to abuse the word "worldly" so we guilt trip ppl into legalistic viewpoints where we can guilt people into doing anything we frown upon. That has NOTHING to do with 1 JOHN. Colossians 2 calls legalism worldliness.

[dk4401]

Take that grandpa...

[therealdrag0]

Chuckles.