@endlessmountain Oh the Dow at 8,700? Are you confident if I look at a Graph that will be the Lowest it went. Don Admitted he should be given a 10% margin, so let's say 7,830.
@endlessmountain Well I may be an idiot, but to say so in such a way shows disrespect. Asian philosophy teaches that to respecting others directly correlates to the amount of respect one has for their own self. So in that, I appreciate your open honesty ;)
"I'm calling the bottom today at 8,700, and if I'm wrong it won't be any more than 10%", which followed by a big tantrum, blues guitar, and anger/back peddles when it went to 7,500. Was he wrong? according to him.
Everyone please Google "Don Harrold Max Keiser" to see the public ASS KICKING Max gave to Don on his blog. He beat him like a red haired step child. But of course Don just cowered and babbled on his two rebuttal Youtube videos hoping Max would not publicly thrash his ass again. By the way Don has since taken down his two videos.
Looks like Don Harrold has given up youtube. He made a video yesterday where he was practically crying about Max Keiser calling him a "traitor" which I feel that's an offensive term to traitors
Don made a comment where he said "everybody please forget about me" then he shut down his youtube site removing all of his videos
Adios Donny Boy!!!!!!
Max Keiser exposed you for being what you are!!!!!!!
@fasteddie847 Don Harrold is like a faith healer, a conman, or psychic having been debunked... He'll take some time off and return to what he knows. He'll play with with some multilevel marketing in the mean time, but he is far from done showing us his tricks ;)
@thejokerspeaks the max keiser video is on youtube just search crash jp morgan buy silver and it will come up. it's about a half hour. don harrold removed all of his videos though
I find it interesting that the only person defending Don id Don himself.If he has the following of paying subscribers he claims, plus over 8000 Youtube subs then I would've thought they would be defending him. It's the same on my vids calling Don out, he's a joke.
@nedbeaty72 I remember him saying that he's had 10,000 clients, but corrected himself saying "Well not at one time, just in total". Hmmmm, a high turnout rate must mean unhappy clients. You can see I don't take any heat from anyone with this video, other than Don's profanity (which he eventually deleted). He's such a great stock guru that he moved on to pyramid schemes, snake oil, and copper rounds.
I see Don has removed all the videos from his channel. What happened? What did I miss? Is he trying to cover his tracks? He did a similar thing to his subscription site a while back. Removed all the videos after he got a bunch of calls wrong.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
From what I see Don Harrold is one of the best stock pickers around. I see his stock picks go up almost everytime. Where do you get this warning material from?
@fbspenelli This video is associated within the time frame it made. As mentioned in the video, Don called the bottom 2200 points too high and told his followers to jump in. When I signed up 2 summers ago, 2/3 of his stock picks were falling off a cliff, and he admitted that his Gold member service was down. I find him egotistical, and unwilling to admit wrong, which is a formula for disaster. So where do you get your material from? I would like to see his picks from 3 months ago (ALL)
@thejokerspeaks... I had signed up for Don's service a while back after the market collapse. After banks stocks hit rock bottom and then rebounded due to the trillions the gov't gave them in bailout money, Don kept telling people to buy FAZ (ETF 3x short banks). He kept telling people to buy it the whole time banks rallied over a period of months. A lot of people lost a lot of money with horrible picks like that. His defense is always the same as Cramers... small positions and tight stop loss
@pweddy71 " A lot of people lost a lot of money with horrible picks like that. His defense is always the same as Cramers... small positions and tight stop loss"
That's his modus operandi.
He's a clown.
A train wreck.
Losing other peoples money by suckering them into his delusions of being a trading genius.
Don is now hawking some BS mlm scheme selling "Mandura" energy drinks at $30 a pop. Never take investment advice from someone who resorts to selling BS energy drinks at inflated prices. Nice video by the way!
@cosmosgato I signed up for his service 2 years ago and noticed 2/3 of his picks never rebounded to the buy price he advised. One of his former fans asked him if he was wrong on the market bottom call, would he claim it was sarcasm as he had weaseled in the past. After saying no, Jim did just that and claimed sarcasm when he was wrong yet again. Other than multi level marketing scams and copper rounds, I haven't paid much attention of late but I'm sure he's got plenty of new snake oil.
@ohio1998 Copper rounds like silver rounds! He claimed that Gold was for the rich, silver was for industry, and copper was for the people. You know his stock tips work if he's pushing copper on his clients with pitches like that. $.85 an ounce, then later did a flip-flop claiming it was about his online exchange to gamble with and copper value didn't matter beyond the speculation.
@thejokerspeaks , I've seen some 100 oz bullion bars for copper. You know what? No one wants them! Why? Who the hell would walk around with those things and try to trade them in? Who would want them for anything????! You better off finding pennies under the couch older than 1982! Then you can melt them down in your back yard like people do in Detroit when they are cutting down copper telephone wires to sell the metal. LOL!!!!!!!!
Here you go, kids, you want to hear more about Don Harrold from people he's banned from his channel? Watch this vid, read the comments, and enjoy! watch?v=l1LvPY6q6d4
Here you go, kids, you want to hear more about Don Harrold from people he's banned from his channel? Watch this vid, read the comments, and enjoy! watch?v=l1LvPY6q6d4
Thanks TJS for calling out Don Hairless. He's a narcissistic ego driven wacko with just enough knowledge about the markets to suck people in and hurt them. Actually; that perfectly describes his guitar playing, too.
How ironic that he has focused so much hypocritical derision on Cramer. To my thinking, they are interchangable. Heck, they even look alike!
On another note; much has been written about the short-man pathology. I mean, reams of books exist about this topic. Universities even teach it. But has anyone ever done a definitive piece about shrill, pale, narcissistic bald guys? Have they named that pathology yet? Perhaps we should start by naming it (baring Don and Jim in mind of course).
NOTE: You misquote me. I did NOT say it was time to start buying ANYTHING before the "landslide" you refer to. I said that the dow MIGHT be headed back up. That's an acknowledgement that all traders need to be prepared for. I don't know what you are trying to do, but, this video is way, WAY off base. I hope you'll remove it. At the very least, replace it with some sort of OPINION about my comments. What you THINK I meant, and, what I MEANT are opinions, NOT fact - as you present them.
Absolutely, explain how my facts are incorrect and I would be happy to do so. This post has NOTHING to do with your services, and likewise so should your rebuttal.
If you are going to give general youtube advice to non-members, you should hold yourself to the same accountability as you hold to your rivals.
I have quoted the end: "How Will We Get Back To Shore?" from Feb 6th (DOW 8,280)
I misquoted 9,200 in "Bottom to the Market, as Called by Don Harrold" on October 7th (DOW 9,447)
1) The October 7 Video you refer to had the caveat that I could be wrong. If I was, I said I'd be wrong by no more than 10%. In fact, I was correct on that 10%. The Dow came close to it, but, did not break it. Yet, the nominal bottom I called was broken. That's why the NEXT DAY I said I was wrong. My next video outlined how to trade the market NEXT. Which, we did and made huge money in the run up to 9600.
3) The "shore" video you reference where I say the market MIGHT to to 15,000 is 10 minutes of market commentary. The first part is where I show how RIGHT I was thousands of points higher on the Dow. In fact, if someone took THAT advice they would be up HUGE. With respect to my comment in that "shore" video: Yes, the Dow MIGHT go back to 15,000. It MIGHT go to 1,000. My service shows people how to trade in either case. I NEVER said the Dow WAS going anywhere.
1. I am far less interested in the parameters of your bottom call as I am where the Dow was when you told folks to start buying. A temporary shift up to 9600 is hardly a means to celebrate when you gave the long-term green light at 9447.
While we are on the subject, you were right within 10%? Let's do the math:
8700 - 870 = DOW 7830
2. Rival:
a person who is competing for the same object or goal as another, or who tries to equal or outdo another
3. I have not criticized anything predating October, nor general advice. I would say, when to jump in and out of the market is a pretty important topic with such faithful followers.
Your implication was to starting thinking about 15,000; extremely bad timing for the influential
3) You are kidding, right? My advice was to "jump in" the Friday after my video in October. That was UNCANNY advice. Holy cow, dude. Then, when I told my members to GET OUT at "Dow 9300", that was an equally uncanny call.
Lastly, there is no "implication" about my ONE SENTENCE vis-a-vis "Dow 15,000". Traders need to be prepared for trading in any environment. The idea that the market will just continue down is just ONE idea. I teach how to profit in either case.
1) Dude, what is your problem? I said to BUY stocks and then I said to SELL THEM. I've NEVER in my entire career EVER said to BUY and HOLD EVER. I said to BUY specific stocks and then SELL THEM. We made, on average, like 30% in a couple days.
2) The Dow dropped to my 10% margin THEN. That was a GREAT buying opportunity. We took advantage of it. We made RIDICULOUS money.
3) No kidding, I know what a "rival" is. What does that have to do with me?
Lastly, I don't know what your deal is. You ignore hundreds of my videos in favor of A) A video that was already discussed ad nauseum (starting with the NEXT DAY), that was followed by advice that made people HUGE money, and, B) You take one sentence WAY out of context from a 10 minute video that simply discusses the plethora of market options and the need to be prepared to trade either way. How you extrapolate my videos into some kind of bad advice is beyond my understanding.
I have to wonder about your integrity, including your "intellectual honesty."
You posted a vid asking for religious debate. You claimed science was as "faith based" as religion. When it was apparent your argument was invalid and based on an ignorance of the scientific process, you removed all of the posts related to our discussion.
I find this ironic in that you were decrying scientists for not being "intellectually honest".
"Hypocrisy" is(or at least should be) a bitter pill.
See all the deleted comments below, Don has quite the potty mouth when criticized on hypocrisy. I should do another vid... After some multilevel marketing scams, he's moved right on to the metal for the people, copper. I cant imagine Peter Schiff promoting copper implying that's all his customers could afford unless he didn't believe in his services. 85 cent copper rounds worth 15 cents... Don I have some gold I'll sell you for 6.5K.
First off, anyone who subscribes for stock picks from anyone, I dont care if your Buffett, is a nutjob. You do your own research and dont follow the herd. They can tell you a good tip but will they be there to tell you when to get out?
True, but my criticism of Don has nothing to do with his services, but rather the public hypocrisy. Anyone fallowing his advice got nailed late last year, and again last month. Dons so busy defending his ego and reputation hes forgot about the people whove been burned.
Perhaps, but since you did not bring up a single valid point I assume you have nothing to say. What your members think and laugh at is irrelevant, nor do they have anything to do with the subject of this video.
You told folks to buy in at Dow 9,200 and then just a month ago at 8,280, both right before an alarming drop. You couldn't have picked a worse day, especially Feb 6th!
If Dow 11K was such a bad call as of 9,200, how come your shit doesn't stink?
He's becoming more so, bad calls are increasing and he doesn't own up to them. Where he used to back is positions with facts, he now relies on pride. That my friend, is scary.
idiot don has a new video saying something about Sunday Feb 28th 2011? what is wrong with that clown?
dondon2340 1 year ago
@dondon2340 He Can't stay way... He makes too much money off youtube newbies to resist.
thejokerspeaks 1 year ago
even though i think don is a clown, his bottom call was correct.
endlessmountain 1 year ago
@endlessmountain Oh the Dow at 8,700? Are you confident if I look at a Graph that will be the Lowest it went. Don Admitted he should be given a 10% margin, so let's say 7,830.
thejokerspeaks 1 year ago
@thejokerspeaks only an idiot see's it that way as it was closer to 7,500 and "THE BOTTOM" calls and "THE TOP" calls can be close and still count.
Your as much of an idiot as Mr. Harrold is. It sucks your in the same class with him. I'm sorry about that.
endlessmountain 1 year ago
@endlessmountain Well I may be an idiot, but to say so in such a way shows disrespect. Asian philosophy teaches that to respecting others directly correlates to the amount of respect one has for their own self. So in that, I appreciate your open honesty ;)
"I'm calling the bottom today at 8,700, and if I'm wrong it won't be any more than 10%", which followed by a big tantrum, blues guitar, and anger/back peddles when it went to 7,500. Was he wrong? according to him.
thejokerspeaks 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Everyone please Google "Don Harrold Max Keiser" to see the public ASS KICKING Max gave to Don on his blog. He beat him like a red haired step child. But of course Don just cowered and babbled on his two rebuttal Youtube videos hoping Max would not publicly thrash his ass again. By the way Don has since taken down his two videos.
TeachManToFish 1 year ago
Looks like Don Harrold has given up youtube. He made a video yesterday where he was practically crying about Max Keiser calling him a "traitor" which I feel that's an offensive term to traitors
Don made a comment where he said "everybody please forget about me" then he shut down his youtube site removing all of his videos
Adios Donny Boy!!!!!!
Max Keiser exposed you for being what you are!!!!!!!
fasteddie847 1 year ago
@fasteddie847 Don Harrold is like a faith healer, a conman, or psychic having been debunked... He'll take some time off and return to what he knows. He'll play with with some multilevel marketing in the mean time, but he is far from done showing us his tricks ;)
Do you have a link to the Mex Kaiser video?
thejokerspeaks 1 year ago
@thejokerspeaks the max keiser video is on youtube just search crash jp morgan buy silver and it will come up. it's about a half hour. don harrold removed all of his videos though
fasteddie847 1 year ago
@fasteddie847 And now Don is back again LOL
nlucctw2 7 months ago
@nlucctw2 Surprise Surprise! ;)
thejokerspeaks 7 months ago
Comment removed
lyingguru 1 year ago
I find it interesting that the only person defending Don id Don himself.If he has the following of paying subscribers he claims, plus over 8000 Youtube subs then I would've thought they would be defending him. It's the same on my vids calling Don out, he's a joke.
nedbeaty72 1 year ago
@nedbeaty72 I remember him saying that he's had 10,000 clients, but corrected himself saying "Well not at one time, just in total". Hmmmm, a high turnout rate must mean unhappy clients. You can see I don't take any heat from anyone with this video, other than Don's profanity (which he eventually deleted). He's such a great stock guru that he moved on to pyramid schemes, snake oil, and copper rounds.
Good Reddens!
thejokerspeaks 1 year ago
@thejokerspeaks Yeah I just pwned him again, I like having him on here, more laughs for the rest of us.
nedbeaty72 1 year ago
I see Don has removed all the videos from his channel. What happened? What did I miss? Is he trying to cover his tracks? He did a similar thing to his subscription site a while back. Removed all the videos after he got a bunch of calls wrong.
pweddy71 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
From what I see Don Harrold is one of the best stock pickers around. I see his stock picks go up almost everytime. Where do you get this warning material from?
fbspenelli 1 year ago
@fbspenelli This video is associated within the time frame it made. As mentioned in the video, Don called the bottom 2200 points too high and told his followers to jump in. When I signed up 2 summers ago, 2/3 of his stock picks were falling off a cliff, and he admitted that his Gold member service was down. I find him egotistical, and unwilling to admit wrong, which is a formula for disaster. So where do you get your material from? I would like to see his picks from 3 months ago (ALL)
thejokerspeaks 1 year ago 3
@thejokerspeaks... I had signed up for Don's service a while back after the market collapse. After banks stocks hit rock bottom and then rebounded due to the trillions the gov't gave them in bailout money, Don kept telling people to buy FAZ (ETF 3x short banks). He kept telling people to buy it the whole time banks rallied over a period of months. A lot of people lost a lot of money with horrible picks like that. His defense is always the same as Cramers... small positions and tight stop loss
pweddy71 1 year ago
@pweddy71 " A lot of people lost a lot of money with horrible picks like that. His defense is always the same as Cramers... small positions and tight stop loss"
That's his modus operandi.
He's a clown.
A train wreck.
Losing other peoples money by suckering them into his delusions of being a trading genius.
cosmosgato 1 year ago
Don is now hawking some BS mlm scheme selling "Mandura" energy drinks at $30 a pop. Never take investment advice from someone who resorts to selling BS energy drinks at inflated prices. Nice video by the way!
socraticdisciple1979 1 year ago 6
@cosmosgato I signed up for his service 2 years ago and noticed 2/3 of his picks never rebounded to the buy price he advised. One of his former fans asked him if he was wrong on the market bottom call, would he claim it was sarcasm as he had weaseled in the past. After saying no, Jim did just that and claimed sarcasm when he was wrong yet again. Other than multi level marketing scams and copper rounds, I haven't paid much attention of late but I'm sure he's got plenty of new snake oil.
thejokerspeaks 1 year ago 3
@thejokerspeaks , Copper rounds? Like silver rounds? lol!!! I'm selling my silver by the way.
ohio1998 1 year ago
@ohio1998 Copper rounds like silver rounds! He claimed that Gold was for the rich, silver was for industry, and copper was for the people. You know his stock tips work if he's pushing copper on his clients with pitches like that. $.85 an ounce, then later did a flip-flop claiming it was about his online exchange to gamble with and copper value didn't matter beyond the speculation.
thejokerspeaks 1 year ago
@thejokerspeaks , I've seen some 100 oz bullion bars for copper. You know what? No one wants them! Why? Who the hell would walk around with those things and try to trade them in? Who would want them for anything????! You better off finding pennies under the couch older than 1982! Then you can melt them down in your back yard like people do in Detroit when they are cutting down copper telephone wires to sell the metal. LOL!!!!!!!!
ohio1998 1 year ago
Here you go, kids, you want to hear more about Don Harrold from people he's banned from his channel? Watch this vid, read the comments, and enjoy! watch?v=l1LvPY6q6d4
WesSeid 1 year ago
Here you go, kids, you want to hear more about Don Harrold from people he's banned from his channel? Watch this vid, read the comments, and enjoy! watch?v=l1LvPY6q6d4
WesSeid 1 year ago
what do you use for your white face paint?
brandork47 2 years ago
Halloween face paint... and now I'm out! Wasn't even planning to do Youtube, but I'll stock up this year!!!
thejokerspeaks 2 years ago
Thanks TJS for calling out Don Hairless. He's a narcissistic ego driven wacko with just enough knowledge about the markets to suck people in and hurt them. Actually; that perfectly describes his guitar playing, too.
thebadwalrus 3 years ago 14
How ironic that he has focused so much hypocritical derision on Cramer. To my thinking, they are interchangable. Heck, they even look alike!
On another note; much has been written about the short-man pathology. I mean, reams of books exist about this topic. Universities even teach it. But has anyone ever done a definitive piece about shrill, pale, narcissistic bald guys? Have they named that pathology yet? Perhaps we should start by naming it (baring Don and Jim in mind of course).
thebadwalrus 3 years ago 12
NOTE: You misquote me. I did NOT say it was time to start buying ANYTHING before the "landslide" you refer to. I said that the dow MIGHT be headed back up. That's an acknowledgement that all traders need to be prepared for. I don't know what you are trying to do, but, this video is way, WAY off base. I hope you'll remove it. At the very least, replace it with some sort of OPINION about my comments. What you THINK I meant, and, what I MEANT are opinions, NOT fact - as you present them.
donharrold 3 years ago
You are incorrect on your facts. I hope you will reconsider this video post.
donharrold 3 years ago
Absolutely, explain how my facts are incorrect and I would be happy to do so. This post has NOTHING to do with your services, and likewise so should your rebuttal.
If you are going to give general youtube advice to non-members, you should hold yourself to the same accountability as you hold to your rivals.
I have quoted the end: "How Will We Get Back To Shore?" from Feb 6th (DOW 8,280)
I misquoted 9,200 in "Bottom to the Market, as Called by Don Harrold" on October 7th (DOW 9,447)
thejokerspeaks 3 years ago
1) The October 7 Video you refer to had the caveat that I could be wrong. If I was, I said I'd be wrong by no more than 10%. In fact, I was correct on that 10%. The Dow came close to it, but, did not break it. Yet, the nominal bottom I called was broken. That's why the NEXT DAY I said I was wrong. My next video outlined how to trade the market NEXT. Which, we did and made huge money in the run up to 9600.
2) I have no "rival". I don't know what you mean.
donharrold 3 years ago
3) The "shore" video you reference where I say the market MIGHT to to 15,000 is 10 minutes of market commentary. The first part is where I show how RIGHT I was thousands of points higher on the Dow. In fact, if someone took THAT advice they would be up HUGE. With respect to my comment in that "shore" video: Yes, the Dow MIGHT go back to 15,000. It MIGHT go to 1,000. My service shows people how to trade in either case. I NEVER said the Dow WAS going anywhere.
donharrold 3 years ago
1. I am far less interested in the parameters of your bottom call as I am where the Dow was when you told folks to start buying. A temporary shift up to 9600 is hardly a means to celebrate when you gave the long-term green light at 9447.
While we are on the subject, you were right within 10%? Let's do the math:
8700 - 870 = DOW 7830
2. Rival:
a person who is competing for the same object or goal as another, or who tries to equal or outdo another
thejokerspeaks 3 years ago
3. I have not criticized anything predating October, nor general advice. I would say, when to jump in and out of the market is a pretty important topic with such faithful followers.
Your implication was to starting thinking about 15,000; extremely bad timing for the influential
thejokerspeaks 3 years ago
3) You are kidding, right? My advice was to "jump in" the Friday after my video in October. That was UNCANNY advice. Holy cow, dude. Then, when I told my members to GET OUT at "Dow 9300", that was an equally uncanny call.
Lastly, there is no "implication" about my ONE SENTENCE vis-a-vis "Dow 15,000". Traders need to be prepared for trading in any environment. The idea that the market will just continue down is just ONE idea. I teach how to profit in either case.
donharrold 3 years ago
1) Dude, what is your problem? I said to BUY stocks and then I said to SELL THEM. I've NEVER in my entire career EVER said to BUY and HOLD EVER. I said to BUY specific stocks and then SELL THEM. We made, on average, like 30% in a couple days.
2) The Dow dropped to my 10% margin THEN. That was a GREAT buying opportunity. We took advantage of it. We made RIDICULOUS money.
3) No kidding, I know what a "rival" is. What does that have to do with me?
donharrold 3 years ago
Lastly, I don't know what your deal is. You ignore hundreds of my videos in favor of A) A video that was already discussed ad nauseum (starting with the NEXT DAY), that was followed by advice that made people HUGE money, and, B) You take one sentence WAY out of context from a 10 minute video that simply discusses the plethora of market options and the need to be prepared to trade either way. How you extrapolate my videos into some kind of bad advice is beyond my understanding.
donharrold 3 years ago
Don,
I have to wonder about your integrity, including your "intellectual honesty."
You posted a vid asking for religious debate. You claimed science was as "faith based" as religion. When it was apparent your argument was invalid and based on an ignorance of the scientific process, you removed all of the posts related to our discussion.
I find this ironic in that you were decrying scientists for not being "intellectually honest".
"Hypocrisy" is(or at least should be) a bitter pill.
judoyodan 2 years ago 4
See all the deleted comments below, Don has quite the potty mouth when criticized on hypocrisy. I should do another vid... After some multilevel marketing scams, he's moved right on to the metal for the people, copper. I cant imagine Peter Schiff promoting copper implying that's all his customers could afford unless he didn't believe in his services. 85 cent copper rounds worth 15 cents... Don I have some gold I'll sell you for 6.5K.
thejokerspeaks 2 years ago 6
Comment removed
donharrold 3 years ago
Comment removed
donharrold 3 years ago
A quote for all you juniors trying to trade out there : If you hope, your a dope. lol.
EasyWolf31 3 years ago
First off, anyone who subscribes for stock picks from anyone, I dont care if your Buffett, is a nutjob. You do your own research and dont follow the herd. They can tell you a good tip but will they be there to tell you when to get out?
EasyWolf31 3 years ago
True, but my criticism of Don has nothing to do with his services, but rather the public hypocrisy. Anyone fallowing his advice got nailed late last year, and again last month. Dons so busy defending his ego and reputation hes forgot about the people whove been burned.
thejokerspeaks 3 years ago
Comment removed
donharrold 3 years ago
What total Bullshit. Total, absolute horse shit. LOL. The members of my service that trade my advice laugh so hard at nonsense like this.
donharrold 3 years ago
Perhaps, but since you did not bring up a single valid point I assume you have nothing to say. What your members think and laugh at is irrelevant, nor do they have anything to do with the subject of this video.
You told folks to buy in at Dow 9,200 and then just a month ago at 8,280, both right before an alarming drop. You couldn't have picked a worse day, especially Feb 6th!
If Dow 11K was such a bad call as of 9,200, how come your shit doesn't stink?
thejokerspeaks 3 years ago
Comment removed
donharrold 3 years ago
Tell it brother!!
Luv ya man!
nessalu 3 years ago
Thanks Ness ;)
thejokerspeaks 3 years ago
Don Harrold is as much as a clown as Cramer, ok, almost as much lol. Well said.
EasyWolf31 3 years ago
He's becoming more so, bad calls are increasing and he doesn't own up to them. Where he used to back is positions with facts, he now relies on pride. That my friend, is scary.
thejokerspeaks 3 years ago