I thought David Barton was sincere until I looked at his own website (wallbuilders). I've seen him talk about how President John Adams was a strong believer in the holy ghost, then I looked at the letter he was talking about (John Adams Letter to Benjamin Rush) Guess what?? David is knowingly misleading us. President Adams describes it by saying, "poor weak ignorant dupe human nature" Read the letter, it's very clear.
President Adams' view is diametrically opposed to Bartons.
3-The reason for the original use of the Capitol as a church might initially be explained by the fact that there were no churches in the city at that time. Even a decade later in 1803, U. S. Senator John Quincy Adams confirmed: "There is no church of any denomination in this city."
1- Washington's Farewell Address - no mention of God or Christ. You said ''why then is there so many references to God and Christ in so many original documents?'' He used the term ''religion''. There were many religions at the founding of our nation, not all of then Christian.
The bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason & right. It still met with opposition; but, with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition proved that it's protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure
2- from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion." The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of it's protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination.
@jfsfrnd First who are you talking too when you say "so you want to go back in time?" Second What exactly do you mean by go back in time, just wondering?
@Jimmy2323Jr If Beck is talking about restoring America, I was wondering what time in history he would like us to take our laws/rights back to. America was NEVER a Christian nation. Looking into the past with rose colored glasses is not reality.
What does it mean when someone claims to be Christian? How Christian does that make them? Does it mean they go to church once a week, or every day, like some Catholics I know, or not at all? Does it mean that they read their Bible cover to cover, break it out occasionally, or don't read it at all? What exactly do they believe? Is there one belief or many that contradict each other? Do you know how many faiths were around when the founders signed those documents? Some don't exist anymore.
It doesn't matter how many founders might have been Christian or not Christian. They founded a nation that is built on religious FREEDOM, not a Christian Nation.
THE AITKEN BIBLE) The Holy Bible, containing the Old and New Testaments Newly translated out of the Original Tongues. Philadelphia: Printed and Sold by R. Aitken, at Port’s Head, Three Doors above the Coffe House, in Market Street 1782.
Congress didn't print it, he petitioned Congress and they gave HIM permission to print it.
David Barton and Glen Beck are liars! I just recently watched an excellent documentary, " The Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers", and discovered that the Founding Fathers were all 33rd degree freemasons. They actually hated the true God of the Bible! You will be shocked to discover what the Founding Fathers actually believed in the own words! Please do a search and learn the truth for yourself. Stop believing the mainstream media!
@shiphrahhopeful If the founders were all freemasons and despised Christianity why then is there so many references to God and Christ in so many original documents? George Washingtons Farwell address, Patricks Henry's speech to the virginia's congress, The Church that met in the US capitol etc.....
@shiphrahhopeful Rather than watch a two hour long informercial, just give me the original documents where George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Bengamin Franklin, etc, are trashing Christianity. From what I have read they revered the Bible and Christianity. They were not perfect, and even if theysecretly had evil intentions God turned it for good. David Barton has done his homework and is over turning years of malious attacks on Christianity.
@vipaccess1 "Infomercial"?The video is extremely well researched,and is one of the best documentaries that I've ever seen. It's filled with all of the documentation that you need, from the very mouths of the founding fathers themselves. I understand that it's hard to UNlearn something once you've been fed a lie for so many years. I was shocked to learn the truth, but even if the truth is uncomfortable, I don't want to be closeminded just because it doesn't fit with what I'd been falsey taught.
@shiphrahhopeful David Barton said No he is not trying to establsh a theocracy, he is only refuting attacks by secularist and Atheist 's who are bent on getting any references to God out of our Society. The Secular progressives are aggressively attacking our history inorder to completely rid our culture of God. your ministry has turned its guns on the wrong person, on a Fellow Christian who is defending distored attacks on our Faith.
@shiphrahhopeful Daniel chapter 4 vrs 34 -35 is a confession by Nebuchadnezzar of the Character of God and how he rules the affairs of man, using the armies of heaven and earth for his purposes and none can stay his hand and say unto him what are you doing. Nobody can see the success of America and not see the power and purpose of God in it, man may see it as evil but God has used it for good in his time and for his purpose, it is to God that we owe our freedom.
@vipaccess1 Yes, God can allow things to play out a certain way. But we are not puppets either. Christians are told NOT to be IGNORANT of the devil's devices, for a reason. Because it is possible for Christians to be deceived by the devil and his devices. We are told to be VIGILANT, because the devil seeks to take advantage of our ignorance in order to devour us. If we believe a LIE then there is legal ground given to Satan, regardless of whether or not God is controlling the bigger picture.
@shiphrahhopeful David Barton is not preaching a patriotic gospel, what he is doing is showing how we have a Christian Heritage, there are moral and ethical benefits which comes to society where the gospel is flourishing. Why would you be surprised if the great awakening with preachers like Johnathon Edwards, George Whitfield, John and Charles Westly had influence? was there some evil mixed in? yes but why would you throw out the influence Christianity had in the begining of our nation?
@vipaccess1 Anyone who studies history knows that there was a ''Christian influence'' to the founding of the nation. So what? That doesn't make us a Christian Nation. And James Madison and Thomas Jefferson put a stop to any Christian group who thought they would run things their way. Barton and his ilk are doing just that and lying to boot. The nation was founded on religious freedom not Christianity.
@jfsfrnd Chrsitianity had a prominent place of influence in the forming of our nation, and with it has come many benefits which our nation has benefited from ( strong sense of morality and ethic's) not perfect but a definite moral compass which has guide us. France at the same time was basically an Atheistic country with no moral compass and look at the difference 25 different froms of government and twice had lost there country to an foreign invader.
@vipaccess1 It still doesn't make us a Christian Nation. We are a nation based on religious freedom, not a Christian Nation willingly giving other people religious freedom. Besides which Christian sect will rule the nation - the Catholics, Mormons, Protestants, Unitarian, Mennonites - who?
@jfsfrnd Christianity has not been considered the offical religion of America, but from the founders and framers Christianity was allowed to have influence. It was not blocked from Federal and public life. It wasn't blocked out f the schools, or blocked from recieving any funds for organizations that are faith based. The mayflower compact, George Washingtons farwell address etc wasn't edited.
@jfsfrnd Blacks laws comentaries were how every law student learned to interpret law, until 1869 when case law replaced Blacks law. New England Primer was what every first grader learned to read with. Just two examples.
@jfsfrnd Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens.
really?, go away soros(swartz) clone. We comin'. You marxists are unbelievable. See ya' in 2012, we comin, TEA PARTY. Ignorant of the facts or are you publically educated and just plain union stupid.
@jfsfrnd I believe him bc I have done my own research into primary sources, (IE actual first hand writings and speeches of the founders themselves). Have you? If so, give me a quote and a source that proves that the founders were deists/atheists etc. I can give you hundreds proving the opposite.
But if the moral precepts, innate in man, and made a part of his physical constitution, as necessary for a social being, if the sublime doctrines of philanthropism and deism taught us by Jesus of Nazareth, in which all agree, constitute true religion, then, without it, this would be, as you again say, " something not fit to be named even, indeed, a hell."
Thomas Jefferson to John Adams - Monticello, May 5, 1817
@jfsfrnd So, what is your point here? He uses the word "deism" but refers to the teachings of Christ, which is clearly "Christian." But, you are right in that Jefferson is one of few founders who could be put into the non-Christian category.
I gave it the title of "The Philosophy of Jesus Extracted from the Text of the Evangelists.'' To this Syllabus and Extract, if a history of His life can be added, written with the same view of the subject, the world will see, after the fogs shall be dispelled, in which for fourteen centuries
2 - He has been enveloped by jugglers to make money of Him, when the genuine character shall be exhibited, which they have dressed up in the rags of an impostor, the world, I say, will at length see the immortal merit of this first of human sages.
T. Jefferson TO F. A. Van Der Kemp. Poplar Forest, April 25, 1816.
American was built on using Christianity as its foundation. But also that no one part of christianity would be the denomination of the land. That ALL religions would be free to worship here.
I wanted a burger, I asked my Christian cousin if he wanted a burger, he said yes. I negotiated with my father to borrow the car. On the way to the restaurant, I got a flat and fixed it. We went though the drive through and we both payed for our share of food. Fair enough, but by Barton's logic, the mere presence of my Christian cousin makes it a wonder of God that we ate at all!!!!!!!!
@leatherneck2044 Really. Then why did the founders break from the good Christian King George of Great Britian. Since he was a Christian, didn't he give them freedom?
@jfsfrnd It is an observable fact. Look around the world. Where is there the most prosperity, freedom, and the highest standard of living? Where does everyone in the world want to come to? Yeah, it is Christian America.
@leatherneck2044 That is your opinion too. We don't have the most freedom or the highest standard of living. And everyone in the world doesn't want to come here. There is no such thing as Christian America. People of all religions and no religions live here. Wake up!
@jfsfrnd Really? Puhleeze show me a country that has more freedom, more opportunity, or a higher standard of living in terms of GDP or GNP, average income, etc. "everyone in the world doesn't want to come here" Show me another country that has to restrict immigration like we do here?
The bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason & right. It still met with opposition; but, with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition proved that it's protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure
2 - from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion." The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of it's protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination.
It is a real pity that the Christian, David Barton joined the Mormon, Glenn Beck to talk about being "'GOD' fearing people." --Which "GOD" are they talking about?
Are they talking about the Biblical, true and living GOD, who always was and is and always will be? Or are they talking about the Mormon "GOD," who was once a man on another planet? Or are they talking about a "Catch-All 'GOD'" that covers all "GODS?"
@muwuhu Nonsense. He may have not been a Christian, but the man who wrote about "...nature's God...[and] ...Divine Providence..." is no atheist. He was not even a Deist if he relied on "Divine Providence." and an agnostic would not speak so adamantly about God at all.
We should really get back to our roots. Back to a simpler time when we defecated in a bucket and tossed it into the street. We should all buy a horse and ride it 100km to work round trip. Lets all live on preserves during the winter. We need to start having 16 children again, so that a least a few will survive to adulthood. They really had it figured out in the 1700's man, its been down hill since then.
Is this being broadcast from the Crystal Castle? I didn't realise Fox had actually been bought by the Christian Television Network. Also since when was the United States built on Christian faith? It was built on the premise that all men are equal, which Barton actually asserts is a socialist concept in his ramblings about the tower of Babel.
@SBurglar Since when was the United States built on the Christian Faith? Since nearly half of the founding fathers held Seminary degrees, and since half of the laws given in regards to courts from the book of Leviticus were inserted into our constitution.
@DawnOfTheDead991 Agreed--talk radio and Faux are not about exchanging ideas or fostering critical thinking--it's preaching to the already converted choir. They have no interest in the truth, or even rational discussion. On your other point, my debate with gmcjetpilot, it was difficult not to sink to his level--I'm content with the fact he couldn't refute a single point and just made himself look silly. The easy cheap-shot here is "typical fundie xian". But not everyone is that bigoted.
Because some founding fathers were religions, doesn't mean Americans have to be.
Some founding fathers were christian, because almost everyone was, at the time. In the mean time we have discovered a great deal of facts we didn't know back then - facts that directly contradict the bible and christian beliefs, and clearly show that religion is an obsolete path to understanding our universe.
"There is a God" is a radical statement of a religious radical
The name "Wall Builders" is very revealing in an ironic way. It implies one is sneaky, paranoid, narrow minded, which seems to be consistent with his revisionist nonsense he calls history. As well as he attempts to knock down the wall of separation of church and state. Very interesting name indeed.
This man, David Barton, has been embracing "Seven Mountains" dominion theology (as has Mike Huckabee..) , and his campaign of misinformation about the founding fathers may be motivated by trying to bring more unwitting Christians into the fold.
Please google "Seven Mountains Theology" and "Dominionism" to see how evil this BS really is...
This guy is a complete joke. He gets introduced as a "historian", but he's not! He takes the bible and bends and twists the parables to try and say they pertain to life today. He believes the bible gives advice about taxation, regulating homosexuality, and even immigration! He gets on glen beck and and feeds people ignorant, distorted half truths he has created to support republican agendas on capitol hill. David Barton is a historian the same way creationists are scientists. Don't listen to him
@631Miami What a fool. Your dummer than Dog shit. Where is your Phd, or DD, or any other qualifying initials going with your name? David Barton is a Historian. There are Scientist that are believers in creation. What you are saying is like saying a MD, is not a doctor. There is not a strong enogh word to describe how dumb you are. That's why you don't believe in God, your too stupid to believe.
@hargisP2 Umm, I don't have a PhD and i don't believe anyone needs on to see that this guy is full of shit. As for my beliefs, that's none of your business. I don't have to believe in a specific god or creator to tell you the bible doesn't say a fuckin thing about illegal immigration or any other political view this psycho is trying to back up. I can't even have a conversation with someone who supports a guy that thinks we should regulate homosexuality lmfao. like i said this guys a joke, so r u
David Barton and Glenn Beck. Two amongst thousands who want to see America go back to the Christian roots that our founding fathers helped create this nation under.
@jayaye21 Where is any mention of freedom of speech, religion, due process in the Bible? Where is there any talk about bicameral legislatures or the three branches of government in your old book? Even slavery and sexism are approved of in the Bible.
@DawnOfTheDead991 Ok first of all slavery back in biblical times is far different than the slavery that we had here in the U.S. Slaves in biblical times were mainly people of conquered lands, not a certain race, such as blacks. Remember this YOUR rights come from GOD and not the government. Government can make and pass laws, but they can not grant rights.
@jayaye21 You didn't answer my question. Besides some common for the times reference to some mythical creator in the Constitution, there is nothing biblical about it. Nothing in the Constitution came out of the Bible. And since just about every regime & ruler claim they are divinely created & endowed, the idea that somehow God this time got it right only in the USA is ludicrous. All the other regimes in Europe at that time, including England, were explicitly Christian.
@DawnOfTheDead991 Wrong, The bible was the largest influence on the founding fathers. No, Ifs, Ands, or Buts About it. I think that people like Hal Lindsey, William Federer, David Barton, David Lapin Jay Sekulov and many other people who are in the know and can gain access to original documents would agree with me. God is not a mythical creator.
@jayaye21 How so? I don't remember seeing anything in the bible about due process under the law or how the Senate should be formed. Almost every reputable scholar & expert agrees with me. But they are all part of the God hating conspiracy so that wont' affect you. As far as I am concerned, these so called patriots & experts of yours are mainly the lowest order of WASPY religious bigots. After all, you would have to exclude Catholics since the Vatican was no friend of the US in the beginning.
@jayaye21 "The bible was the largest influence on the founding fathers." Can you give some proof? Are you going to cite the Hyneman/Lutz survey? That actually proved the opposite of what Barton attempts to twist it into saying. I'm happy to refute Barton's lies point by point. Bring it.
@jayaye21 So you're saying that it is alright for one human being to own another if they were a member of a conquered land? Either slavery is wrong now and always has been or it isn't--which is it? Where does it say our rights come from god?
@theTIck197 Cussing in any form to try to get your point across is an UN-intelligent way to speak. Dr Marvin Watson said" Any one who cusses to get a point across shows their UN-intelligence. There for you sir are a moron, and that means that Their is nothing wrong with David Barton or Glenn Beck. The only person who has something wrong with him is you and are you so stupid that the only name you can come up with is one taken from a stupid cartoon such as The Tick. Have a nice day.
Of course. I should have listened to Dr. Marvin Watson, the divine arbiter of intelligence. Well I know that I am so stupid and all, but I figured I'd point out that your entire argument for this is based on a deductive fallacy. Also you misspelled 'therefore' and you said ' their' when you meant to say 'there'
@theTIck197 First of all according to the thesaurus their is the proper word, second what do you mean by deductive fallacy( THIS! IS! IN! NO! WAY! BASED! ON! AN! INVALID! ARGUMENT!) How do you know your statements about David Barton and Glenn Beck are true you do not know them personally and I may have misspelled one word but you have already lost the argument because you cannot prove that my argument is invalid in any form. It has taken you 4 days to respond to me are you that stupid?
Deductive fallacy goes like this: some x, some y, therefore, some x and y. birds have beaks. octopuses have beaks. Therefore octopuses are birds. Who cares what Dr. Marvin Watson has to say? It doesn't mean a damn thing to me. How do I know it is true that these two guys are shit heads? I don't. It's an opinion. I do know that they care a lot about telling you what to do and sticking their noses how other people run their personal lives. To me, that makes a shit head.
@theTIck197 OK then you have no right to blast Glenn beck and David Barton for anything because how do you know they are not telling the truth? You have no proof none.
Go to Bartons own website (wallbuilders) and look up John Adams Letter the Benjamin Rush. You'll see the president sarcastically describing the holy ghost. Then you'll read how the president though the concept was "artiface" "cunning" and "craft" too difficult and not even worth opposing. The presidents view is diametrically opposed to what Barton claims it to be. Is he lying or does he really not know better?
Also, here's a tip, take it or leave it - 'there' is used to refer to a physical or abstract place. 'their' is possessive. 'they're' is a contraction.
@Jimmy2323Jr ''Their is nothing wrong with David Barton or Glenn Beck''
Yeah if you want to turn America into a Dominionist Christian nation. David Barton was recently talking about the Seven Mountain Strategy. Go look it up.
@jfsfrnd Seven Mountain Strategy is just a stupid music video on you tube no words from David Barton any where I typed in David Barton Seven Mountain Strategy and that's what I got
Let us for a second accept your accusation that David Barton is a liar. So what? What's a "lie" to you? Is this bad behavior on his part? And if so, how do you know this? How do you, an atheist, account for "bad" or "good" in the first place?
Answer: you can't. In order to use morally judgmental language against Barton, you must borrow from a worldview which can support such moral judgments (Christianity), since atheism itself can't account for such a thing.
@PianoMann85 LOL, that's hilarious! Man had a moral code long before your little sadomasochistic cult was invented, in order to control simpletons like you. I love how you idiots think that if the Ten commandments didn't exist, man would go around raping and murdering each other. In fact, it is the religious people in the world who are doing the murdering in the name of their fairy tales. Religion is evil. Especially yours. Your cult stole its ideas from Egyptian book of the dead. You fake.
You failed to show how an atheistic worldview can account for morality. All you did there was call names and make baseless assertions. Why should I take you seriously? Your own worldview is self-referentially absurd. Just because you say something is so does not make it so. Show it. Show how atheism can account for any form of universal, unchanging code of morality, and then tell me how man can know such a code (epistemology).
@PianoMann85 Failed according to you? LOL, you believe in a three headed god, who is his own son, who died, so you could drink his blood and live forever on the streets of gold with the rest of the zombies who came back to life again. I don't think I'm worried at all about living up to your standard of proof. You have no standards when it comes to that. Every child is born an atheist (although I am not one, thanks for assuming) until they are brainwashed by their ignorant parents.
You seem to think that "atheist" is a pejorative term. I'd be happy to say I was an atheist if I was. I consider myself a deist. I think there may have been a god that set evolution in motion. It's the only logical position to take if you think the existence of god is a possibility. I find Jefferson's arguments to be pretty persuasive when it comes to this topic. He called himself a Christian in the truest sense, yet mocked those who believed in the divinity of Jesus or the trinity.
@PianoMann85 98% of all species that have ever existed have gone extinct. The fact that we have survived shows that we knew that killing each other and violating each others rights was something we needed to avoid in order to survive. Religion just simply stole these ideas and claimed them as our own. Religion only came about after we developed big enough brains to try to figure out everything. Religion is just our first attempt at explaining everything. Its a major fail, so try science now
@MrTruthAddict "The fact that we have survived shows that we knew that killing each other and violating each others rights was something we needed to avoid in order to survive."
No, it doesn't show that at all. Assuming your premises, there could be many different reasons as to why "we" survived up until now. Your conclusion doesn't necessarily follow from the premise. So you fail, just like I knew you would (you're fighting a battle you can't win).
@PianoMann85 Wow, you're willing to entertain millions of other reasons why we survived, but you only accept ONE story of how the universe was created. Gee, that's not inconsistent at all! Christian logic = the biggest oxymoron there ever was.
Logic? Another phenomenon that atheism can't account for. Christianity can explain logic; atheism cannot. Which explains why atheists are such logical idiots.
Anyway, I'm done wasting my time with you. You've failed to answer those basic questions I posed to you earlier. As I said, your worldview is inherently contradictory; it cannot even explain itself, let alone point out the flaws in other systems. You are exactly what the Bible says you are: a moron.
@PianoMann85 Logic is a phenomenon? LOL, wow your pastor really has your head up your ass doesnt he. Christianity DEPENDS on rejecting logic and reason. Faith is accepting something as true WITHOUT evidence! My worldview is based on fact and reality, not fables written by ignorant goat herders in the desert 2000 years ago.
If you think we can know anything in any justified sense from "science" then you are sorely mistaken. Science is based upon numerous logical fallacies, not the least of which being induction. Try reading Karl Popper some time. See what Bertrand Russell had to say about the scientific method and its problem of asserting the consequent. If you're really brave, read Gordon H. Clark and/or John Robbins on the subject.
@PianoMann85 Science deals in reality, and in facts. Science is open to new ideas if they can be proven and rejects ideas that cannot. Which is why creationists are laughed at. Religion deals in man made stories that a child could have made up. You really don't need to have much of an imagination to see that god was created in OUR image. Science has proven the bible wrong time and time again.
It appears you are the one who has built his house on a foundation of sand here.
I think science is very important. Thank YHWH for science. However science deals with only one facet of reality .... and it's not infallible. Aside from the point where the two facets come to a "Y" point, science can't even investigate the other facet. I'm not saying it can't be investigated; just that the field of science has a totally different function.
@qpwillie Which leads us to another important point, if you think YHWH created science and the bible is his word, why doesnt the bible contain anything at all about modern science? How about even something like germ theory, or gravity? I would think a book written by an omniscient, omnipotent god would include something we didnt know at the time it was written, after all, he knew all of this back then...didnt he? Answer: The bible was written by simple men, who were not inspired by god.
The Bible was written to be understood by people over a long period of time. The most important thing to understand is that YHWH created everything so it was worded in a way that people who lived long before the scientific knowledge was available but also included the basic information for people of all eras which came after. For example, Isaiah saw automobiles and planes but if he had used those terms, everybody would have thought he was speaking a foreign language.
When I was young I dreamed of being able to have a device that would allow me to communicate with anyone no matter where I was in the world. It was science fiction at the time. Today my little nephews carry cell phones everywhere they go. Does that make me a prophet? No, it just means I have an a imagination. Now if I had the details of the technology revealed to me and it was correct, then we could talk about magic and being divinely inspired and such. Otherwise its just imagination
If you really think the bible was divinely inspired you need to watch a few videos by brettppalmer called "What Genesis got wrong." He goes through Genesis and points out exactly where it is wrong compared to what we absolutely know now about the universe. Also take a look at AronRa channel. Thunderf00t is another great channel. These are knowledgable men who have taken the time to put together some great, informative videos.
I've probably seen them. I watch those kind of videos often. Most of them use modern western type thought and fail to research the accurate translations of words and phrases. You can find fine sounding arguments for just about anything on YouTube.
I don't see any reason to keep arguing about this. If you want the truth, you'll spend the hours it takes to find it. If not, you'll take the easy way. Just like some people who let the preacher tell them what to think.
No, you haven't seen them, because you reject science. Science knows the order in which things were created in the universe, and I trust modern sciences methods much more than the imagination of some illiterate, uneducated goatherder 2000 years ago. The bible is FULL of contradictions and straight out ERRORS. Because they are fictional stories created by ignorant men who didnt know the first thing about science. You go ahead and place your bets on fairy tales, I'll stick with science and facts
"Science deals in reality, and in facts. Science is open to new ideas if they can be proven and rejects ideas that cannot."
LOL.
Have you read any of those people I mentioned in my other post? At least read Popper's "The Problem of Induction." Better yet, read Gordon Clark. After you've done that, then maybe we can talk. I know you *think* you're really smart, but to someone who knows a little something about the vast philosophical problems of "science," you really sound like a moron.
@PianoMann85 Oh yes, and like every other creationist moron, you think that evolution is a threat to your fairy tale so you reject it.. In SPITE of all the evidence, in spite of all the work science has done to advance our society to the point we have come to, you insist on clinging to bedtime stories from the stone age. I say get on a camel and go back to the desert or cave where you'd feel more comfortable without all this pesky science stuff to threaten your belief system. You simpleton
@wvfii who cares about thomas jeferson's view on God..bottom line God is life and love without God we have no life and love that's a message of the bible and Christianity have you read the bible...read the new testament and tell me about Jesus...
Ok then, why should we care about what Jefferson's views on anything were?
I'm not saying I AGREE with Jefferson in this instance, I just noticed that the commenter below (skcguerilla) had been marked as spam, and I thought that was bs. So I pasted his comment in this free forum so everyone could see it.
@wvfii we should care what his views were because he founded this country but he has many other quotes that defend Christianity...i just think that many people attack Christianity when the bible as been a positive influence in the world especially in America...
so make up your mind: wither we take into account everything Jefferson said, even if I may disagree with it, or we just discount him altogether.
Once again, I'm not attacking Christianity. My problem is with charlatans and political firebrands who ignore Christ's teachings but instead use the Bible as a political weapon to push unconstitutional legislation (legislation that runs afoul of the Establishment and Free Exercise clauses in the First Amendment)
My beef is not with Jesus, or even Christianity. My problem is with those who have used it as a political tool to subjugate people who happen to NOT be Christian. Which runs counter to the Constitution, and I would argue Jesus' teachings as well. Because yes, I've read the Bible. (Born and raised So. Baptist)
@1turner22 Which version of the bible? Whose interpretation do we believe? Do we believe the stories of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John? They contradict each other in many places.
@MrTruthAddict read it urself and decide i accept christ because i believe in God in a literal actual living
God that's my faith... i believe faith is both strong and true characteristic of life spiritual. and Jesus said,"true followers worship in spirit and in truth...for God is spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth."
@1turner22 Um, I'm a pastors son so I'm VERY familiar with the bible. I know it backward and forward. Ive studied its history. I know how it became corrupted and who corrupted it. I know where its ideas were stolen from, what religions it evolved from, and I know it is just another cult in along line of cults which stole ideas from each other. Thmas Jefferson openly mocked the idea of a trinity or the divinity of Jesus. Thomas Paine knew it came from Sun worshiping cults from Egypt. Google!
@MrTruthAddict ur missing the whole point... look no one knows foshure the history behind these other religions but the bottom line is that there is a God out there i believe in miracles actual miracles weather
u believe that the bible is a lie is up for you to decide but i know that God and the story of Christ is true because
i have seen it's awesome power... how can so much faith for the past 2000 years be a lie
@1turner22 Well, that's a nice confession of faith but it proves nothing, other than your personal experience means something to you. It means nothing to the rest of the world. And yes we DO know for sure the history behind the other religions. You might not, but the history is there if you care to look into it. Your religion came about through a huge game of telephone, fable passed on for 40-250 years before they were ever written down. Fiction, in other words.
@1turner22 THats great, alcohol does the sme thing. Replacing one addiction with another is not fixing the problem. As a pastors son I have seen many many people come and go who were addicts or alcoholics. Force feeding them religion keeps them sober for a little while but they always go back to it because the problem was never treated.
@MrTruthAddict also only you and i as individuals through our experiences both bad and good and through our faith can experience the holy spirit..why because the world doesn't know the holy spirit..the world doesn't
seek it..only the individual who opens his or her heart can seek the truth of God
Why would any true follower of Jesus Christ, who believes the Bible to be the inspired, inerrant word of God, representing absolute truth and the final authority in all matters follow a man who lies about what he truly believes simply because he espouses a conservative political ideology? Glenn Beck should quit lying to people that he is a Christian. Be honest: A MORMON IS NO MORE CHRISTIAN THAN A MUSLIM IS
@wvfii hahahaha wowwww! those are some horribly bold statements. for your sake i hope youre right because i believe we will all be held accountable for everything we ever do or say and if it turns out that the LDS church is true, then youve dug yourself into a whole load of crap. if i were you id work more on becoming a better christian rather than slamming on others. haha some christian you are! so yeah.... i think your taking a bold risk making those claims and it is not worth it
Glenn Beck lies when he claims to be a Christian. He is part of the Satanic Mormon cult, leading millions of souls to Hell with their false theology. When Beck talks about "God", he's not talking about the God of the Bible, but rather the imaginary "God" dreamed up by his cult's founder, that murdering pedophile Joseph Smith. According to Beck's Mormon cult, he believes that he too will one day be a "God" and have his own planet.
I thought David Barton was sincere until I looked at his own website (wallbuilders). I've seen him talk about how President John Adams was a strong believer in the holy ghost, then I looked at the letter he was talking about (John Adams Letter to Benjamin Rush) Guess what?? David is knowingly misleading us. President Adams describes it by saying, "poor weak ignorant dupe human nature" Read the letter, it's very clear.
President Adams' view is diametrically opposed to Bartons.
frendguy 3 months ago
3-The reason for the original use of the Capitol as a church might initially be explained by the fact that there were no churches in the city at that time. Even a decade later in 1803, U. S. Senator John Quincy Adams confirmed: "There is no church of any denomination in this city."
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
2-Patrick Henry - ''Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power.
The ''God of nature''. Definitely not a reference to the God of Bible or Christ. There is no mention of ''Christ''.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
1- Washington's Farewell Address - no mention of God or Christ. You said ''why then is there so many references to God and Christ in so many original documents?'' He used the term ''religion''. There were many religions at the founding of our nation, not all of then Christian.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
If anyone wants to understand what is really going on, one watch Chris Pinto documentaries, then read the letters of the founders yourself.
This country was settled by puritans-pilgrims which were Christians, but many-most of the founders were obviously deists....
Christians DO NOT HAVE FREEDOM OF RELIGION, maybe religious tolerance but not freedom
Thou shalt have no other gods before me
gladiator1010 7 months ago
1- Autobiography - by Thomas Jefferson
The bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason & right. It still met with opposition; but, with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition proved that it's protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
2- from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion." The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of it's protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
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So you want to go back in time? What else do you want?
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd First who are you talking too when you say "so you want to go back in time?" Second What exactly do you mean by go back in time, just wondering?
Jimmy2323Jr 4 months ago
@Jimmy2323Jr If Beck is talking about restoring America, I was wondering what time in history he would like us to take our laws/rights back to. America was NEVER a Christian nation. Looking into the past with rose colored glasses is not reality.
jfsfrnd 4 months ago
@jfsfrnd You can't prove that America is not a Christan nation.
Jimmy2323Jr 4 months ago
''. . .Extracted from the Texts of the Evangelists''. Funny guy that Jefferson. LOL
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
Jesus taught ''philanthropism and deism'' according to Thomas Jefferson.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
What does it mean when someone claims to be Christian? How Christian does that make them? Does it mean they go to church once a week, or every day, like some Catholics I know, or not at all? Does it mean that they read their Bible cover to cover, break it out occasionally, or don't read it at all? What exactly do they believe? Is there one belief or many that contradict each other? Do you know how many faiths were around when the founders signed those documents? Some don't exist anymore.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
Do you have proof that Congress printed the first Bible in America?
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
It doesn't matter how many founders might have been Christian or not Christian. They founded a nation that is built on religious FREEDOM, not a Christian Nation.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
THE AITKEN BIBLE) The Holy Bible, containing the Old and New Testaments Newly translated out of the Original Tongues. Philadelphia: Printed and Sold by R. Aitken, at Port’s Head, Three Doors above the Coffe House, in Market Street 1782.
Congress didn't print it, he petitioned Congress and they gave HIM permission to print it.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
David Barton and Glen Beck are liars! I just recently watched an excellent documentary, " The Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers", and discovered that the Founding Fathers were all 33rd degree freemasons. They actually hated the true God of the Bible! You will be shocked to discover what the Founding Fathers actually believed in the own words! Please do a search and learn the truth for yourself. Stop believing the mainstream media!
shiphrahhopeful 7 months ago
@shiphrahhopeful If the founders were all freemasons and despised Christianity why then is there so many references to God and Christ in so many original documents? George Washingtons Farwell address, Patricks Henry's speech to the virginia's congress, The Church that met in the US capitol etc.....
vipaccess1 7 months ago
@vipaccess1 Did you watch ALL of the video, "The Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers"?
shiphrahhopeful 7 months ago
@shiphrahhopeful Rather than watch a two hour long informercial, just give me the original documents where George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Bengamin Franklin, etc, are trashing Christianity. From what I have read they revered the Bible and Christianity. They were not perfect, and even if theysecretly had evil intentions God turned it for good. David Barton has done his homework and is over turning years of malious attacks on Christianity.
vipaccess1 7 months ago
@vipaccess1 "Infomercial"?The video is extremely well researched,and is one of the best documentaries that I've ever seen. It's filled with all of the documentation that you need, from the very mouths of the founding fathers themselves. I understand that it's hard to UNlearn something once you've been fed a lie for so many years. I was shocked to learn the truth, but even if the truth is uncomfortable, I don't want to be closeminded just because it doesn't fit with what I'd been falsey taught.
shiphrahhopeful 7 months ago
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vipaccess1 7 months ago
@shiphrahhopeful David Barton said No he is not trying to establsh a theocracy, he is only refuting attacks by secularist and Atheist 's who are bent on getting any references to God out of our Society. The Secular progressives are aggressively attacking our history inorder to completely rid our culture of God. your ministry has turned its guns on the wrong person, on a Fellow Christian who is defending distored attacks on our Faith.
vipaccess1 7 months ago
@shiphrahhopeful Daniel chapter 4 vrs 34 -35 is a confession by Nebuchadnezzar of the Character of God and how he rules the affairs of man, using the armies of heaven and earth for his purposes and none can stay his hand and say unto him what are you doing. Nobody can see the success of America and not see the power and purpose of God in it, man may see it as evil but God has used it for good in his time and for his purpose, it is to God that we owe our freedom.
vipaccess1 7 months ago
@vipaccess1 Yes, God can allow things to play out a certain way. But we are not puppets either. Christians are told NOT to be IGNORANT of the devil's devices, for a reason. Because it is possible for Christians to be deceived by the devil and his devices. We are told to be VIGILANT, because the devil seeks to take advantage of our ignorance in order to devour us. If we believe a LIE then there is legal ground given to Satan, regardless of whether or not God is controlling the bigger picture.
shiphrahhopeful 7 months ago
@shiphrahhopeful So who are you referring to when you talk about someone lying?
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
@shiphrahhopeful David Barton is not preaching a patriotic gospel, what he is doing is showing how we have a Christian Heritage, there are moral and ethical benefits which comes to society where the gospel is flourishing. Why would you be surprised if the great awakening with preachers like Johnathon Edwards, George Whitfield, John and Charles Westly had influence? was there some evil mixed in? yes but why would you throw out the influence Christianity had in the begining of our nation?
vipaccess1 7 months ago
@vipaccess1 Anyone who studies history knows that there was a ''Christian influence'' to the founding of the nation. So what? That doesn't make us a Christian Nation. And James Madison and Thomas Jefferson put a stop to any Christian group who thought they would run things their way. Barton and his ilk are doing just that and lying to boot. The nation was founded on religious freedom not Christianity.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd Chrsitianity had a prominent place of influence in the forming of our nation, and with it has come many benefits which our nation has benefited from ( strong sense of morality and ethic's) not perfect but a definite moral compass which has guide us. France at the same time was basically an Atheistic country with no moral compass and look at the difference 25 different froms of government and twice had lost there country to an foreign invader.
vipaccess1 7 months ago
@vipaccess1 It still doesn't make us a Christian Nation. We are a nation based on religious freedom, not a Christian Nation willingly giving other people religious freedom. Besides which Christian sect will rule the nation - the Catholics, Mormons, Protestants, Unitarian, Mennonites - who?
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd Christianity has not been considered the offical religion of America, but from the founders and framers Christianity was allowed to have influence. It was not blocked from Federal and public life. It wasn't blocked out f the schools, or blocked from recieving any funds for organizations that are faith based. The mayflower compact, George Washingtons farwell address etc wasn't edited.
vipaccess1 7 months ago
@vipaccess1 What do you mean by ''influence''?
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd Blacks laws comentaries were how every law student learned to interpret law, until 1869 when case law replaced Blacks law. New England Primer was what every first grader learned to read with. Just two examples.
vipaccess1 7 months ago
@vipaccess1 Post the references to God and Christ in those three items.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens.
vipaccess1 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations; and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us
vipaccess1 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd there is more but just posted a line or two of each
vipaccess1 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd You only had three?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
really?, go away soros(swartz) clone. We comin'. You marxists are unbelievable. See ya' in 2012, we comin, TEA PARTY. Ignorant of the facts or are you publically educated and just plain union stupid.
ampat1779 7 months ago
really?, go away soros(swartz) clone. We comin'. You marxists are unbelievable. See ya' in 2012, we comin, TEA PARTY.
ampat1779 7 months ago
I guess these things are true because David Barton says they are. I don't see any written evidence of what he is saying.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd Uh, yeah, seeing "written evidence" would involve reading books. Have you given that a whirl?
leatherneck2044 7 months ago
@leatherneck2044 So you believe him because he says it? Yeah, I read books, do you?
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd I believe him bc I have done my own research into primary sources, (IE actual first hand writings and speeches of the founders themselves). Have you? If so, give me a quote and a source that proves that the founders were deists/atheists etc. I can give you hundreds proving the opposite.
leatherneck2044 7 months ago
@leatherneck2044 It wouldn't matter if EVERY founder was a Christian. They founded a nation based on religious freedom.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd Exactly.
leatherneck2044 7 months ago
@leatherneck2044
But if the moral precepts, innate in man, and made a part of his physical constitution, as necessary for a social being, if the sublime doctrines of philanthropism and deism taught us by Jesus of Nazareth, in which all agree, constitute true religion, then, without it, this would be, as you again say, " something not fit to be named even, indeed, a hell."
Thomas Jefferson to John Adams - Monticello, May 5, 1817
The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Vol 15
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd So, what is your point here? He uses the word "deism" but refers to the teachings of Christ, which is clearly "Christian." But, you are right in that Jefferson is one of few founders who could be put into the non-Christian category.
leatherneck2044 7 months ago
1 - ''Clealry Christian''? Really.
I gave it the title of "The Philosophy of Jesus Extracted from the Text of the Evangelists.'' To this Syllabus and Extract, if a history of His life can be added, written with the same view of the subject, the world will see, after the fogs shall be dispelled, in which for fourteen centuries
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
2 - He has been enveloped by jugglers to make money of Him, when the genuine character shall be exhibited, which they have dressed up in the rags of an impostor, the world, I say, will at length see the immortal merit of this first of human sages.
T. Jefferson TO F. A. Van Der Kemp. Poplar Forest, April 25, 1816.
The Works of Thomas Jefferson Vol 15
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
American was built on using Christianity as its foundation. But also that no one part of christianity would be the denomination of the land. That ALL religions would be free to worship here.
jayaye21 8 months ago
I wanted a burger, I asked my Christian cousin if he wanted a burger, he said yes. I negotiated with my father to borrow the car. On the way to the restaurant, I got a flat and fixed it. We went though the drive through and we both payed for our share of food. Fair enough, but by Barton's logic, the mere presence of my Christian cousin makes it a wonder of God that we ate at all!!!!!!!!
Infomaniack 9 months ago
America wasn't built on Christianity, it was built on religious FREEDOM!
jfsfrnd 9 months ago
@jfsfrnd And freedom is a product of Christianity.
leatherneck2044 8 months ago
@leatherneck2044 Really. Then why did the founders break from the good Christian King George of Great Britian. Since he was a Christian, didn't he give them freedom?
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd Hypocrisy I guess. But, "where the Spirit of the Lord is...there is liberty."
leatherneck2044 8 months ago
@leatherneck2044 Quotes from the Bible don't create freedom.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd You're right. And the Mavericks aren't NBA world champions bc I say they are. I say they are bc they are.
leatherneck2044 8 months ago
@leatherneck2044 That's your opinion.
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
@jfsfrnd It is an observable fact. Look around the world. Where is there the most prosperity, freedom, and the highest standard of living? Where does everyone in the world want to come to? Yeah, it is Christian America.
leatherneck2044 8 months ago
@leatherneck2044 That is your opinion too. We don't have the most freedom or the highest standard of living. And everyone in the world doesn't want to come here. There is no such thing as Christian America. People of all religions and no religions live here. Wake up!
jfsfrnd 8 months ago
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@jfsfrnd Really? Puhleeze show me a country that has more freedom, more opportunity, or a higher standard of living in terms of GDP or GNP, average income, etc. "everyone in the world doesn't want to come here" Show me another country that has to restrict immigration like we do here?
leatherneck2044 8 months ago
1- Autobiography - by Thomas Jefferson
The bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason & right. It still met with opposition; but, with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition proved that it's protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure
jfsfrnd 9 months ago
2 - from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion." The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of it's protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination.
jfsfrnd 9 months ago
It is a real pity that the Christian, David Barton joined the Mormon, Glenn Beck to talk about being "'GOD' fearing people." --Which "GOD" are they talking about?
Are they talking about the Biblical, true and living GOD, who always was and is and always will be? Or are they talking about the Mormon "GOD," who was once a man on another planet? Or are they talking about a "Catch-All 'GOD'" that covers all "GODS?"
Fear of the Lord??? What???
Debra J.M. Smith
"Informing Christians" Journalist
InformingChristians 9 months ago
@InformingChristians I'm beginning to think that this is a conspiracy on their part to take over the country.
jfsfrnd 9 months ago
@jfsfrnd -- It sure makes a person wonder.
InformingChristians 9 months ago
They totally dismissed our major "founding father" Thomas Jefferson, the biggest atheist ever
muwuhu 10 months ago
@muwuhu Nonsense. He may have not been a Christian, but the man who wrote about "...nature's God...[and] ...Divine Providence..." is no atheist. He was not even a Deist if he relied on "Divine Providence." and an agnostic would not speak so adamantly about God at all.
leatherneck2044 8 months ago
They totally omitted Thomas Jefferson, the biggest atheist in the history of America.
muwuhu 10 months ago
We should really get back to our roots. Back to a simpler time when we defecated in a bucket and tossed it into the street. We should all buy a horse and ride it 100km to work round trip. Lets all live on preserves during the winter. We need to start having 16 children again, so that a least a few will survive to adulthood. They really had it figured out in the 1700's man, its been down hill since then.
Baldock72 10 months ago
Is this being broadcast from the Crystal Castle? I didn't realise Fox had actually been bought by the Christian Television Network. Also since when was the United States built on Christian faith? It was built on the premise that all men are equal, which Barton actually asserts is a socialist concept in his ramblings about the tower of Babel.
SBurglar 10 months ago 2
@SBurglar Since when was the United States built on the Christian Faith? Since nearly half of the founding fathers held Seminary degrees, and since half of the laws given in regards to courts from the book of Leviticus were inserted into our constitution.
gloinstrong 7 months ago
Barton is a professional liar and distorter. Search for Chris Rodda to see his lies exposed.
BiffWhitebread13 10 months ago
@BiffWhitebread13 She devastated him. But talk radio & Faux News never gives you any good commentary.
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago
@DawnOfTheDead991 Agreed--talk radio and Faux are not about exchanging ideas or fostering critical thinking--it's preaching to the already converted choir. They have no interest in the truth, or even rational discussion. On your other point, my debate with gmcjetpilot, it was difficult not to sink to his level--I'm content with the fact he couldn't refute a single point and just made himself look silly. The easy cheap-shot here is "typical fundie xian". But not everyone is that bigoted.
BiffWhitebread13 10 months ago
Because some founding fathers were religions, doesn't mean Americans have to be.
Some founding fathers were christian, because almost everyone was, at the time. In the mean time we have discovered a great deal of facts we didn't know back then - facts that directly contradict the bible and christian beliefs, and clearly show that religion is an obsolete path to understanding our universe.
"There is a God" is a radical statement of a religious radical
noizereduction 10 months ago
The name "Wall Builders" is very revealing in an ironic way. It implies one is sneaky, paranoid, narrow minded, which seems to be consistent with his revisionist nonsense he calls history. As well as he attempts to knock down the wall of separation of church and state. Very interesting name indeed.
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago
This man, David Barton, has been embracing "Seven Mountains" dominion theology (as has Mike Huckabee..) , and his campaign of misinformation about the founding fathers may be motivated by trying to bring more unwitting Christians into the fold.
Please google "Seven Mountains Theology" and "Dominionism" to see how evil this BS really is...
hulajoe 10 months ago
This guy is a complete joke. He gets introduced as a "historian", but he's not! He takes the bible and bends and twists the parables to try and say they pertain to life today. He believes the bible gives advice about taxation, regulating homosexuality, and even immigration! He gets on glen beck and and feeds people ignorant, distorted half truths he has created to support republican agendas on capitol hill. David Barton is a historian the same way creationists are scientists. Don't listen to him
631Miami 10 months ago
@631Miami What a fool. Your dummer than Dog shit. Where is your Phd, or DD, or any other qualifying initials going with your name? David Barton is a Historian. There are Scientist that are believers in creation. What you are saying is like saying a MD, is not a doctor. There is not a strong enogh word to describe how dumb you are. That's why you don't believe in God, your too stupid to believe.
hargisP2 10 months ago
@hargisP2 Umm, I don't have a PhD and i don't believe anyone needs on to see that this guy is full of shit. As for my beliefs, that's none of your business. I don't have to believe in a specific god or creator to tell you the bible doesn't say a fuckin thing about illegal immigration or any other political view this psycho is trying to back up. I can't even have a conversation with someone who supports a guy that thinks we should regulate homosexuality lmfao. like i said this guys a joke, so r u
631Miami 10 months ago
@hargisP2 Almost all scientists believe in Evolution as well as almost all Historians dismiss Barton's so called history. Where is his PhD?
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago
@DawnOfTheDead991 What PhD? In Glenn Beck world, you can start a goddam University (with your name on it) without even having a degree!
noizereduction 10 months ago
@noizereduction and he makes tons of money peddling his phony dreck from his website "university"
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago
kaykayssis, let me help you out. It's not 'tour' or 'your.' It's you're.
theTIck197 10 months ago
@MrFundieKiller you are an idiot. go screw your boyfriend
kaykayssis 10 months ago
David Barton and Glenn Beck. Two amongst thousands who want to see America go back to the Christian roots that our founding fathers helped create this nation under.
jayaye21 10 months ago
@jayaye21 Where is any mention of freedom of speech, religion, due process in the Bible? Where is there any talk about bicameral legislatures or the three branches of government in your old book? Even slavery and sexism are approved of in the Bible.
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago
@DawnOfTheDead991 Ok first of all slavery back in biblical times is far different than the slavery that we had here in the U.S. Slaves in biblical times were mainly people of conquered lands, not a certain race, such as blacks. Remember this YOUR rights come from GOD and not the government. Government can make and pass laws, but they can not grant rights.
jayaye21 10 months ago
@jayaye21 You didn't answer my question. Besides some common for the times reference to some mythical creator in the Constitution, there is nothing biblical about it. Nothing in the Constitution came out of the Bible. And since just about every regime & ruler claim they are divinely created & endowed, the idea that somehow God this time got it right only in the USA is ludicrous. All the other regimes in Europe at that time, including England, were explicitly Christian.
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago
@DawnOfTheDead991 Wrong, The bible was the largest influence on the founding fathers. No, Ifs, Ands, or Buts About it. I think that people like Hal Lindsey, William Federer, David Barton, David Lapin Jay Sekulov and many other people who are in the know and can gain access to original documents would agree with me. God is not a mythical creator.
jayaye21 10 months ago
@jayaye21 How so? I don't remember seeing anything in the bible about due process under the law or how the Senate should be formed. Almost every reputable scholar & expert agrees with me. But they are all part of the God hating conspiracy so that wont' affect you. As far as I am concerned, these so called patriots & experts of yours are mainly the lowest order of WASPY religious bigots. After all, you would have to exclude Catholics since the Vatican was no friend of the US in the beginning.
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago
@jayaye21 "The bible was the largest influence on the founding fathers." Can you give some proof? Are you going to cite the Hyneman/Lutz survey? That actually proved the opposite of what Barton attempts to twist it into saying. I'm happy to refute Barton's lies point by point. Bring it.
BiffWhitebread13 10 months ago
@jayaye21 So you're saying that it is alright for one human being to own another if they were a member of a conquered land? Either slavery is wrong now and always has been or it isn't--which is it? Where does it say our rights come from god?
BiffWhitebread13 10 months ago
Lying for Jeebus!
MsGingergingercat 10 months ago
@MsGingergingercat Who is Jeebus? LOL!
Jimmy2323Jr 4 months ago
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@MrFundieKiller There is no other God besides the God of Abraham.
Quinadal 10 months ago
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These are the two biggest shit heads I have ever seen in my life.
theTIck197 1 year ago 6
@theTIck197 tour the biggest shit head I have heard.
kaykayssis 10 months ago
@theTIck197 your the biggest shit head I have heard.
kaykayssis 10 months ago
@theTIck197 You sound very intelligent.
gloinstrong 7 months ago
@theTIck197 Cussing in any form to try to get your point across is an UN-intelligent way to speak. Dr Marvin Watson said" Any one who cusses to get a point across shows their UN-intelligence. There for you sir are a moron, and that means that Their is nothing wrong with David Barton or Glenn Beck. The only person who has something wrong with him is you and are you so stupid that the only name you can come up with is one taken from a stupid cartoon such as The Tick. Have a nice day.
Jimmy2323Jr 4 months ago
@Jimmy2323Jr
Of course. I should have listened to Dr. Marvin Watson, the divine arbiter of intelligence. Well I know that I am so stupid and all, but I figured I'd point out that your entire argument for this is based on a deductive fallacy. Also you misspelled 'therefore' and you said ' their' when you meant to say 'there'
theTIck197 4 months ago
@theTIck197 First of all according to the thesaurus their is the proper word, second what do you mean by deductive fallacy( THIS! IS! IN! NO! WAY! BASED! ON! AN! INVALID! ARGUMENT!) How do you know your statements about David Barton and Glenn Beck are true you do not know them personally and I may have misspelled one word but you have already lost the argument because you cannot prove that my argument is invalid in any form. It has taken you 4 days to respond to me are you that stupid?
Jimmy2323Jr 4 months ago
@Jimmy2323Jr ''How do you know your statements about David Barton and Glenn Beck are true?''
I don't think that they are ''shitheads'' but they are liars.
jfsfrnd 4 months ago
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@jfsfrnd You think you can't prove anything
Jimmy2323Jr 4 months ago
@Jimmy2323Jr
Deductive fallacy goes like this: some x, some y, therefore, some x and y. birds have beaks. octopuses have beaks. Therefore octopuses are birds. Who cares what Dr. Marvin Watson has to say? It doesn't mean a damn thing to me. How do I know it is true that these two guys are shit heads? I don't. It's an opinion. I do know that they care a lot about telling you what to do and sticking their noses how other people run their personal lives. To me, that makes a shit head.
theTIck197 4 months ago
@theTIck197 OK then you have no right to blast Glenn beck and David Barton for anything because how do you know they are not telling the truth? You have no proof none.
Jimmy2323Jr 4 months ago
@Jimmy2323Jr
Go to Bartons own website (wallbuilders) and look up John Adams Letter the Benjamin Rush. You'll see the president sarcastically describing the holy ghost. Then you'll read how the president though the concept was "artiface" "cunning" and "craft" too difficult and not even worth opposing. The presidents view is diametrically opposed to what Barton claims it to be. Is he lying or does he really not know better?
frendguy 3 months ago
@Jimmy2323Jr
Also, here's a tip, take it or leave it - 'there' is used to refer to a physical or abstract place. 'their' is possessive. 'they're' is a contraction.
theTIck197 4 months ago
@Jimmy2323Jr ''Their is nothing wrong with David Barton or Glenn Beck''
Yeah if you want to turn America into a Dominionist Christian nation. David Barton was recently talking about the Seven Mountain Strategy. Go look it up.
jfsfrnd 4 months ago
@jfsfrnd Seven Mountain Strategy is just a stupid music video on you tube no words from David Barton any where I typed in David Barton Seven Mountain Strategy and that's what I got
Jimmy2323Jr 4 months ago
This guy is a complete liar! Liarsforjesus (.) com
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
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PianoMann85 1 year ago
Let us for a second accept your accusation that David Barton is a liar. So what? What's a "lie" to you? Is this bad behavior on his part? And if so, how do you know this? How do you, an atheist, account for "bad" or "good" in the first place?
Answer: you can't. In order to use morally judgmental language against Barton, you must borrow from a worldview which can support such moral judgments (Christianity), since atheism itself can't account for such a thing.
MrTruthAddict is a moron.
PianoMann85 1 year ago
@PianoMann85 LOL, that's hilarious! Man had a moral code long before your little sadomasochistic cult was invented, in order to control simpletons like you. I love how you idiots think that if the Ten commandments didn't exist, man would go around raping and murdering each other. In fact, it is the religious people in the world who are doing the murdering in the name of their fairy tales. Religion is evil. Especially yours. Your cult stole its ideas from Egyptian book of the dead. You fake.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict
You failed to show how an atheistic worldview can account for morality. All you did there was call names and make baseless assertions. Why should I take you seriously? Your own worldview is self-referentially absurd. Just because you say something is so does not make it so. Show it. Show how atheism can account for any form of universal, unchanging code of morality, and then tell me how man can know such a code (epistemology).
You have one more chance.
PianoMann85 1 year ago
@PianoMann85 Failed according to you? LOL, you believe in a three headed god, who is his own son, who died, so you could drink his blood and live forever on the streets of gold with the rest of the zombies who came back to life again. I don't think I'm worried at all about living up to your standard of proof. You have no standards when it comes to that. Every child is born an atheist (although I am not one, thanks for assuming) until they are brainwashed by their ignorant parents.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict
You are an atheist. You deny the only God who exists. According to God, you are either with him or against him; there is no neutrality.
PianoMann85 1 year ago
You seem to think that "atheist" is a pejorative term. I'd be happy to say I was an atheist if I was. I consider myself a deist. I think there may have been a god that set evolution in motion. It's the only logical position to take if you think the existence of god is a possibility. I find Jefferson's arguments to be pretty persuasive when it comes to this topic. He called himself a Christian in the truest sense, yet mocked those who believed in the divinity of Jesus or the trinity.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@PianoMann85 98% of all species that have ever existed have gone extinct. The fact that we have survived shows that we knew that killing each other and violating each others rights was something we needed to avoid in order to survive. Religion just simply stole these ideas and claimed them as our own. Religion only came about after we developed big enough brains to try to figure out everything. Religion is just our first attempt at explaining everything. Its a major fail, so try science now
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict "The fact that we have survived shows that we knew that killing each other and violating each others rights was something we needed to avoid in order to survive."
No, it doesn't show that at all. Assuming your premises, there could be many different reasons as to why "we" survived up until now. Your conclusion doesn't necessarily follow from the premise. So you fail, just like I knew you would (you're fighting a battle you can't win).
PianoMann85 1 year ago
@PianoMann85 Wow, you're willing to entertain millions of other reasons why we survived, but you only accept ONE story of how the universe was created. Gee, that's not inconsistent at all! Christian logic = the biggest oxymoron there ever was.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict
Logic? Another phenomenon that atheism can't account for. Christianity can explain logic; atheism cannot. Which explains why atheists are such logical idiots.
Anyway, I'm done wasting my time with you. You've failed to answer those basic questions I posed to you earlier. As I said, your worldview is inherently contradictory; it cannot even explain itself, let alone point out the flaws in other systems. You are exactly what the Bible says you are: a moron.
PianoMann85 1 year ago
@PianoMann85 Logic is a phenomenon? LOL, wow your pastor really has your head up your ass doesnt he. Christianity DEPENDS on rejecting logic and reason. Faith is accepting something as true WITHOUT evidence! My worldview is based on fact and reality, not fables written by ignorant goat herders in the desert 2000 years ago.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict
If you think we can know anything in any justified sense from "science" then you are sorely mistaken. Science is based upon numerous logical fallacies, not the least of which being induction. Try reading Karl Popper some time. See what Bertrand Russell had to say about the scientific method and its problem of asserting the consequent. If you're really brave, read Gordon H. Clark and/or John Robbins on the subject.
You're a fool to trust in science. A fool.
PianoMann85 1 year ago
@PianoMann85 Science deals in reality, and in facts. Science is open to new ideas if they can be proven and rejects ideas that cannot. Which is why creationists are laughed at. Religion deals in man made stories that a child could have made up. You really don't need to have much of an imagination to see that god was created in OUR image. Science has proven the bible wrong time and time again.
It appears you are the one who has built his house on a foundation of sand here.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict
I think science is very important. Thank YHWH for science. However science deals with only one facet of reality .... and it's not infallible. Aside from the point where the two facets come to a "Y" point, science can't even investigate the other facet. I'm not saying it can't be investigated; just that the field of science has a totally different function.
qpwillie 1 year ago
@qpwillie Which leads us to another important point, if you think YHWH created science and the bible is his word, why doesnt the bible contain anything at all about modern science? How about even something like germ theory, or gravity? I would think a book written by an omniscient, omnipotent god would include something we didnt know at the time it was written, after all, he knew all of this back then...didnt he? Answer: The bible was written by simple men, who were not inspired by god.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict
The Bible was written to be understood by people over a long period of time. The most important thing to understand is that YHWH created everything so it was worded in a way that people who lived long before the scientific knowledge was available but also included the basic information for people of all eras which came after. For example, Isaiah saw automobiles and planes but if he had used those terms, everybody would have thought he was speaking a foreign language.
qpwillie 1 year ago
When I was young I dreamed of being able to have a device that would allow me to communicate with anyone no matter where I was in the world. It was science fiction at the time. Today my little nephews carry cell phones everywhere they go. Does that make me a prophet? No, it just means I have an a imagination. Now if I had the details of the technology revealed to me and it was correct, then we could talk about magic and being divinely inspired and such. Otherwise its just imagination
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict
I don't believe Isaiah knew what he was seeing or exactly how to describe them other than to compare them to things he was familiar with.
qpwillie 1 year ago
If you really think the bible was divinely inspired you need to watch a few videos by brettppalmer called "What Genesis got wrong." He goes through Genesis and points out exactly where it is wrong compared to what we absolutely know now about the universe. Also take a look at AronRa channel. Thunderf00t is another great channel. These are knowledgable men who have taken the time to put together some great, informative videos.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict
I've probably seen them. I watch those kind of videos often. Most of them use modern western type thought and fail to research the accurate translations of words and phrases. You can find fine sounding arguments for just about anything on YouTube.
I don't see any reason to keep arguing about this. If you want the truth, you'll spend the hours it takes to find it. If not, you'll take the easy way. Just like some people who let the preacher tell them what to think.
qpwillie 1 year ago
No, you haven't seen them, because you reject science. Science knows the order in which things were created in the universe, and I trust modern sciences methods much more than the imagination of some illiterate, uneducated goatherder 2000 years ago. The bible is FULL of contradictions and straight out ERRORS. Because they are fictional stories created by ignorant men who didnt know the first thing about science. You go ahead and place your bets on fairy tales, I'll stick with science and facts
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
"Science deals in reality, and in facts. Science is open to new ideas if they can be proven and rejects ideas that cannot."
LOL.
Have you read any of those people I mentioned in my other post? At least read Popper's "The Problem of Induction." Better yet, read Gordon Clark. After you've done that, then maybe we can talk. I know you *think* you're really smart, but to someone who knows a little something about the vast philosophical problems of "science," you really sound like a moron.
PianoMann85 1 year ago
@PianoMann85 Oh yes, and like every other creationist moron, you think that evolution is a threat to your fairy tale so you reject it.. In SPITE of all the evidence, in spite of all the work science has done to advance our society to the point we have come to, you insist on clinging to bedtime stories from the stone age. I say get on a camel and go back to the desert or cave where you'd feel more comfortable without all this pesky science stuff to threaten your belief system. You simpleton
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
“The authors of the gospels were unlettered and ignorant men and the teachings of Jesus have come to us mutilated, misstated and unintelligible”
- Thomas Jefferson
"The Christian God is a being of terrific character - cruel, vindictive, capricious, and unjust." -Thomas Jefferson
"Religions are all alike -- founded upon fables and mythologies." -Thomas Jefferson
wvfii 1 year ago
@wvfii who cares about thomas jeferson's view on God..bottom line God is life and love without God we have no life and love that's a message of the bible and Christianity have you read the bible...read the new testament and tell me about Jesus...
1turner22 1 year ago
@1turner22
Ok then, why should we care about what Jefferson's views on anything were?
I'm not saying I AGREE with Jefferson in this instance, I just noticed that the commenter below (skcguerilla) had been marked as spam, and I thought that was bs. So I pasted his comment in this free forum so everyone could see it.
wvfii 1 year ago
@wvfii we should care what his views were because he founded this country but he has many other quotes that defend Christianity...i just think that many people attack Christianity when the bible as been a positive influence in the world especially in America...
1turner22 1 year ago
@1turner22
so make up your mind: wither we take into account everything Jefferson said, even if I may disagree with it, or we just discount him altogether.
Once again, I'm not attacking Christianity. My problem is with charlatans and political firebrands who ignore Christ's teachings but instead use the Bible as a political weapon to push unconstitutional legislation (legislation that runs afoul of the Establishment and Free Exercise clauses in the First Amendment)
wvfii 1 year ago
Comment removed
wvfii 1 year ago
@1turner22
My beef is not with Jesus, or even Christianity. My problem is with those who have used it as a political tool to subjugate people who happen to NOT be Christian. Which runs counter to the Constitution, and I would argue Jesus' teachings as well. Because yes, I've read the Bible. (Born and raised So. Baptist)
wvfii 1 year ago
@wvfii Amen brother!
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@1turner22 Which version of the bible? Whose interpretation do we believe? Do we believe the stories of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John? They contradict each other in many places.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict read it urself and decide i accept christ because i believe in God in a literal actual living
God that's my faith... i believe faith is both strong and true characteristic of life spiritual. and Jesus said,"true followers worship in spirit and in truth...for God is spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth."
1turner22 1 year ago
@1turner22 Um, I'm a pastors son so I'm VERY familiar with the bible. I know it backward and forward. Ive studied its history. I know how it became corrupted and who corrupted it. I know where its ideas were stolen from, what religions it evolved from, and I know it is just another cult in along line of cults which stole ideas from each other. Thmas Jefferson openly mocked the idea of a trinity or the divinity of Jesus. Thomas Paine knew it came from Sun worshiping cults from Egypt. Google!
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict ur missing the whole point... look no one knows foshure the history behind these other religions but the bottom line is that there is a God out there i believe in miracles actual miracles weather
u believe that the bible is a lie is up for you to decide but i know that God and the story of Christ is true because
i have seen it's awesome power... how can so much faith for the past 2000 years be a lie
1turner22 1 year ago
@1turner22 Well, that's a nice confession of faith but it proves nothing, other than your personal experience means something to you. It means nothing to the rest of the world. And yes we DO know for sure the history behind the other religions. You might not, but the history is there if you care to look into it. Your religion came about through a huge game of telephone, fable passed on for 40-250 years before they were ever written down. Fiction, in other words.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict okay my experience might not mean alot to the rest of the world but the people around me
know so..lets not get to caught up in theology...lets look at how faith as been able to turn people from thier
drug addiction..or at how faith gives meaning to many of people's lives..gives happiness to the depressed...
again because of these things there is truth in believing in God and there is some truth in the bible...
1turner22 1 year ago
@1turner22 THats great, alcohol does the sme thing. Replacing one addiction with another is not fixing the problem. As a pastors son I have seen many many people come and go who were addicts or alcoholics. Force feeding them religion keeps them sober for a little while but they always go back to it because the problem was never treated.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
Comment removed
1turner22 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict also only you and i as individuals through our experiences both bad and good and through our faith can experience the holy spirit..why because the world doesn't know the holy spirit..the world doesn't
seek it..only the individual who opens his or her heart can seek the truth of God
1turner22 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
“The authors of the gospels were unlettered and ignorant men and the teachings of Jesus have come to us mutilated, misstated and unintelligible”
- Thomas Jefferson
"The Christian God is a being of terrific character - cruel, vindictive, capricious, and unjust." -Thomas Jefferson
"Religions are all alike -- founded upon fables and mythologies." -Thomas Jefferson
skcguerrilla 1 year ago
Why would any true follower of Jesus Christ, who believes the Bible to be the inspired, inerrant word of God, representing absolute truth and the final authority in all matters follow a man who lies about what he truly believes simply because he espouses a conservative political ideology? Glenn Beck should quit lying to people that he is a Christian. Be honest: A MORMON IS NO MORE CHRISTIAN THAN A MUSLIM IS
wvfii 1 year ago 3
@wvfii hahahaha wowwww! those are some horribly bold statements. for your sake i hope youre right because i believe we will all be held accountable for everything we ever do or say and if it turns out that the LDS church is true, then youve dug yourself into a whole load of crap. if i were you id work more on becoming a better christian rather than slamming on others. haha some christian you are! so yeah.... i think your taking a bold risk making those claims and it is not worth it
goalkeepr27 1 year ago
@goalkeepr27
"bold claims", you say? I LEARNED IT FROM WATCHING YOU, GLENN. I LEARNED IT FROM WATCHING YOUU
wvfii 1 year ago
Glenn Beck lies when he claims to be a Christian. He is part of the Satanic Mormon cult, leading millions of souls to Hell with their false theology. When Beck talks about "God", he's not talking about the God of the Bible, but rather the imaginary "God" dreamed up by his cult's founder, that murdering pedophile Joseph Smith. According to Beck's Mormon cult, he believes that he too will one day be a "God" and have his own planet.
wvfii 1 year ago
How did it start, what did it look like? I can tell ya, negros in chains.
the07tour 1 year ago
@the07tour
Actually, slavery was here and around the world 200 years before this nation started.
It took blood, sweat, and tears of many true Christians to remove it.
CrimsunSword 1 year ago