A History of Hebrew Part 3: The inadequacy of a translation

[jaimesssi]

"how", this could happen ...

and not Be Corrected nowadays !!!!

The Pope (mayBe) should preach & teach ! in Hebrew or Aramaic (only sometimes ?)

And, we should all "call" the name is his, her, it originaly "Origine" ...

(Even for CHRiSTOPHER COLOMBUS ...) ...

[elishebabb]

wonderful & needed..../....your pronunciation of # 6 is difficult to understand. Can you write it in transliterated English ? Is it alef,lamed,kaf sofit or pey sofit ? Thank you

[ancienthebreworg]

@elishebabb I think you are referring to the word אלף aleph-lamed-pey sofit - ah-laph

[ZeusTelemaxos]

hebrew history, the bible and biblical archaeology have been debunked 100's of times by academia. The only people that back these ridiculous myths are Christians and israelis who either need to legitimize their faith or to legitimize their illegal occupation of Palestine and the genocides that theyre commiting.

[jonny7748]

@ZeusTelemaxos Must be a script writer for paliwood.

[safirpurim]

and technically למד = lamed means "to goad". a person is arrogant to think they can teach another. at most they can goad someone to do something, and what they learn, they learn it of their own accord. even the most high only goads creation. creation acts or reacts according to its own volition. the hebrew tongue is perfect, and scholars who have written whole concordances dont know letters. the technically word for teach is תורה =towrah and it means literally=guide

[ancienthebreworg]

@safirpurim Excellent post and I agree 100%. I kept the definitions in this video simple and did not not into the details of these words here, but I do in other videos.

[safirpurim]

technically אלף means literally=to do it without a reward. alef is the action of doing something no worrying if one gets a reward or condemned for it. it is doing what needs to be done, regardless of the outcome. that is why it is the first letter. because all things must be done simply because they need to be, not for reward or profit, and not because another may speak against someone

[ancienthebreworg]

@safirpurim I see אלף as "learning by association." To learn by following the examples of others.

[tokenjane]

 רב תודות

[JayBird5246]

Since the letter aleph is the head of an ox, does that have anything to do with showing through example? The ox often symbolizes G-d or a leading strength. I was just curious about it.

[ancienthebreworg]

@JayBird5246 Actually you have hit the nail on the head. The Hebrew verb אלף (alaph), which is the root of the word aleph, means exactly that, to teach by example. The noun form (eleph) is literally an ox in a yoke. A young ox would be yoked to an older more experienced ox so that he can learn by example. This noun can also be used for a family in the sense of being yoked together and learning from each other.

[xvzw]

what does the letter "פ" mean in every end of a chapter in the Bible?

[ancienthebreworg]

@xvzw The פ is placed in the text where there is a paragraph break in the text. A ס is also used to show where a long space is placed in the text.

[theKingOfTheTrolls]

The complete mechanical translation of the bible any soon?

[ancienthebreworg]

@theKingOfTheTrolls I currently have Genesis and Exodus published and hope to have a complete Torah in the next year or two. A complete Bible is going to be awhile as you can see.

[Theresa9770]

Hasnt anyone translated hebrew to english exactly! Wouldnt that be a miricle to b able to read it like that.

[ancienthebreworg]

@Theresa9770 No, it has never been done before, until now. I have published what I call the Mechanical Translation of Genesis and Exodus. This translates every Hebrew, prefix and suffix, exactly the same way every time it occurs and in the same order as the Hebrew. It is also accompanied by a "Revised Mechanical Translation" which rearranges everything so it can be understood without knowing Hebrew sentence structure.

[safirpurim]

actually lamad means to goad something to a specific spot. all hebrew words are actions...they cant be defined as english words, because english words are based on appearance of things, or an agreed definition

lamad means goad..but every hebrew word is based on god...so it means literally..to goad towards god. and it pronounced literally..lamed

[shults87]

@ Good Thought, I was Thinking the same thing. PLus every different word that he used in hebrew for teach, in English all those definitions mean to teach. (to move forward, direct to go, to let them know)

[jameshanley40]

Your translations do seem a bit controversial.. e..g there are biblical hebrew dictionaries by biblical hebrew scholars..based on a concordance. But yours are translated very differently. Perhaps sometimes rightly. Perhaps sometimes wrongly.

I did learn that LAMAD means he learnt. But the reason why some forms of LAMAD can be translated to He taught. is because some forms are causal. To cause to learn, is to teach. BTW, Your work should be in papers and peer reviewed.

[ancienthebreworg]

@jameshanley40 Yes, I do admit some of this is controversial, but so is any work that does not follow the mainstream. The verb LMD (lamad) means "to learn," only when written in the hiphil form (to cause to learn) does it mean "to teach." As a lay person I do not access to peer review.

[champ23100]

very enlightning...

[nomadnametab]

Again, he is so on the mark. You can say for example ,still in Modern Hebrew, I missed the buss and it= I missed it though I ran and tried to catch it but failed. Or , I missed it and didn't really care if I caught it or not. Or, I missed it on purpose and with deliberate effort. This runs through the language, and the Scriptures. It works that way also for Aramaic as in the NT.

[ancienthebreworg]

Exactly, thank you.

[tegf4]

Psalm 68:4 How is it in Hebrew,

extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH

I came across an debate that Jah should not have a vowel,

So I come here cause I like your work.

I looked up on site studylight but the fount will not copy and past. What is in the sentence is different then the pop up window when clicked on the word, I do not understand why.

[1Thrufire]

Jeff - good stuff. You might want to kern your text. That means when you have the "T" in teach, you adjust the other letters like the "each" to tuck underneath. This gives a much cleaner, more professional appearance.

[ancienthebreworg]

Thank you very much Thrufire, that is an excellent suggestion and I have added a note to do this in the final draft. Thank you again.

[TheOriginalemoticon]

Hi,

I'm currently in ulpan Aleph. I'm interested in learning ancient hebrew texts. I had heard this before . If you want to be close to your maker learn what he or she meant. Well since your pointing this out and doing a great job I might add. I wanted to know where I could get a Bible or Tanach or Torah what have you with proper translation. Targoom ? G-d Bless You

[ancienthebreworg]

For the most part I use the Hebrew Bible, the masoretic text. I will often compare this with the Dead Sea Scrolls if a copy of the scrolls is available for a particular passage. For those that do not know Hebrew, I recommend a Jewish translation, Sencino being one fo the better ones, or the Chabad translation available through their website at chabad..org.

[TheOriginalemoticon]

I use the Art Scroll Tanach . Do you speak modern Hebrew? How long have you researched the Hebrew texts? I know even Israelis have tough times sometimes with understanding the ancient texts. During Pesach they sometimes don't understand the complete prayer that they are reading.Thanks again

[ancienthebreworg]

Artscroll is good, but might help to compare it to chabad. I speak modern Hebrew a little. I have been studying the Hebrew Bible for about 15 years now.

[deborahbetty58]

Well that was wonderful again Jeff :-) It comes to my mind that, if all these steps are not carefully followed by ppl who call themselves teachers, the whole process of transference of the message to the pupil gets lost, particularly the last step, conveying the message through example. In this sense Messiah was the true Teacher, in striking contrast with many of his religious contemporaries. Shalom

[777jordan]

I also think you oculd record the audio with a better microphone, there is some clipping.

[ancienthebreworg]

Yes, this is a "rough draft" and I will be purchasing some equipment to do the audio correctly for the final draft.

[hopeforamerika]

Wonderful! (5*****)

[sabakimsg]

Again, this video makes a very very good point. HOWEVER these days people have access to excellent sources which can aid finding the correct meaning of a given word. The Hebrew/Greek Key Word Study Bible is an excellent resource for studying the meaning of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek words. This source itself is based on other biblical language resources that have been around for many many years. The resources are available for those who are interested. It is a matter of investing ones time.

[ancienthebreworg]

Excellent point saba and I agree 100%.

[kidi1232]

man im sorry but you have alot of mistakes. i dont know how you translate those words but its wrong. (plus you pronounce them wrong)

if you have any questions i will be happy to help you.

[ancienthebreworg]

You are bringing up two issues;

1. Definition of Hebrew Words

2. Pronunciation of Hebrew Words.

As for the definitions, most people assume the definition of these Biblical Hebrew words are the same as in modern Hebrew and this is not the case. The original definitions are oftentimes very different from modern Hebrew.

Cont...

[ancienthebreworg]

As for the pronunciation, you are probably referring to my use of "lamad" instead of "le'emod" for למד, etc. but I use the third person masculine singular perfect tense of the verb, a common method for pronuoncing verbs.

[tatolin99]

Dear ancienthebreworg:

I am new to study the bible and have been wondering if there is any translation that effectively transmit the original message from the hebrew. I am currently reading the NWT. Though I am a firm believer in God I Have no specific religion. Any suggestions? Regards.

[ancienthebreworg]

This is probably the most frequently asked question I received and the sad answer is that there is not one. All modern translations of the Bible remove the original Hebraic flavor and meaning of the text and replace it with Greco-Roman Western philosophy. This is the reason why I have begun a translation project called the Mechanical Translation (mechanical-translation . org)

[aschnedl]

This series is very good - but might be more

accurately titled "A history of (mis)translation of

the ancient Hebrew language";

[ancienthebreworg]

Thank you. Actually the series has four parts (not all complete yet); The alphabet, The language, The philosophy and Transmission. This video is part of the latter - Transmission, I just did it first.

[breezyage]

I don't get it. All of those words could be teach. You are to teach your children. you show them by example, you guide them in the right direction. you warn them. all of that goes into the true heart and meaning of teach. Mabe it's just too early in the morning for me LOL

[ancienthebreworg]

The point breezyage is that the Hebrew language provides much greater detail which is lost when it is translated.

[jmbpastor]

Jeff... I love your work but you talk soooo slow on this tape! Just talk normal... ti sounds so much better! John

[ancienthebreworg]

Shalom John:

Thank you very much for the feedback, I appreciate it. Is it just this one video or the same for all of them?

[jmbpastor]

Shalom. Just for the new series... I love your old teaching videos... they are great and I find that even kids can get excited about learning the hebrew language with your website and videos as well! About the new series... if you talk too slow the sound borders on being artifical and might turn people off (or put the kids to sleep)! LOL. To me they are hard to listen to.

[ancienthebreworg]

No, not at all John, just the opposite, I am very appreciative of any criticisms, it just makes the final end product that much better.

[ancienthebreworg]

There are three speaking styles in all my videos.

1. They are recordings of live seminars I have done before other people.

2. They are recordings of live seminars I have done on the internet in chat rooms.

3. They are recordings I do on my computer specifically for the videos.

This last style is the same style for this current series and is also the most artificial sounding. I will definitely work on it. Thank you very much for the input.

[Mencel89]

lolol, i like this slow speed so far, it doesn't bother me (it's not too slow) .... And I think most christians will only get it if you spell it out to them slowly. lololol just kidding.

[ancienthebreworg]

With the help of jmb I figured out that there was a #4 to my above list.

4. The new series is, because of its technical information, is read from a script rather than me teaching from an outline as in my other videos.

Because of this it sounds too artificial.

[canadianbacon007]

Thx, excellent series.

[ancienthebreworg]

Thank you, and you're welcome.

[medievalman86]

cool. So Jeff, if that is your real name :P is there a translation out there that would instead of reading "thou shalt teach them my laws" would read as "thou shalt -show them through example- my laws?"

[ancienthebreworg]

Yes, Jeff is my real name :-). As for your question, yes and no. For several years now I have been working on what I call a Mechanical Translation where each Hebrew word is consistently translated with one (or somethimes two or three) English word. Because one or two English words cannot completely convey the Hebrew the translation is accompanied with a dictionary which provides a more detailed definition. Genesis and Exodus are currently published.

[ReligionThink]

Excellent!!!!

[dunklaw]

Great teaching ! (not sure which teaching thought) ;-)

The same problems exist with the Greek also.

agape, philia, storge, eros all translated as LOVE.

And today in English we use one word 'LOVE' to mean many and different things.

The Hebrew seems much more precise about its sentence structure and use of words.

[ancienthebreworg]

Good points about the Greek also demonstrating the problems with a translation.