Luchino Visconti’s “Death in Venice” (1971) and How It Was Misperceived By The American Mass Cultural Worldview – (De-sublimated) “Sexcitement” vs. Overtones of Homoeroticism As A Part of Existential Sublime
Creative Emotional Alchemy of A priori Re-incarnation
Bound to this movie nowadays many talk about gays or pedophils. But at the time Thomas Mann wrote the book such a theme was out of reach. He describes a famous artists mental disorders about reaching beautys perfection. It´s a dramatic, mental and poetic book and movie - a man who slowly gets killed by mental suicide after he lost his daughter, wife and music. I´m sure Tadzio was some kind of symbol for all he lost - reminding all happyness gone forever - right in front, but out of reach
I hate that movie, cause old fat guys think, they should hunt me, when I`m out to splash on a gay party. I`m not a weightwatcher, or a male nurse for old fat family guys! -They just want to enslave everyone to their daydreams, who looks healthy & spiritually mature!
@ThisIsMe2010: how to insult in one only comment the immortal work of Thomas Mann but and its movie version by one of the greatest directors of all time. Congratulations!
So...it's slow-paced, has no dialogue between the main characters, takes place in a time period when guys still wore those striped one-pieces, and the main character is a middle-aged writer who spends the majority of his time stalking a particularly pretty teenage boy who may or may not be aware of it?
@TheThisIsMe2010 this is an adaption of the 1912 Novel "Death in Venice" by Thomas Mann, a masterpiece of writing. This movie does not at all cover the intentions and associations wich are given in the Book.
Fuck this! This film is so gay and creepy. 3/4 of the aimed audience must be pervy queers. The point is if that guy got a haircut like every other normal guy, he would no longer be considered "beautiful", end of.
@prettyb0y1992 The guy would still be the most beautiful boy with his hair cut while nobody could be in the least beautiful with the same hair length and style as his.
@SuperMimiyan Well many people have diffrent tastes, not everyone is attracted to blonde hair and very pale skin. Alot of men & women prefer olive skin and dark hair and call that beautiful.
@prettyb0y1992 What I wanted to say is that even with olive skin and dark hair ,Bjorn is still the most beautiful person to me . The movie director let him dye his hair blond ( He originally has dark hair color.) and put on much make-ups on his face to make the movie more impressive. I respect your opinion.
@prettyb0y1992 You say that with a screen name like 'pretty boy'? And besides, everyone has subjective tastes to what they think is beautiful. No need to be an ass about it.
@prettyb0y1992 men have loved boys for thousands of years (Socrates, Plato and Alexander). I don't approve of this, but its part of human nature. U are judging all that history from your very narrow Puritan outlook. You are one tiny speck in the spectrum of human sexual behavior. What' creepy is people killing each other in wars---that's the worst. & you are a redneck--so why are you watching this? Go back to hunting alligators, bubba and leave those who do enjoy it alone.
The man in the movie never tuch the boy or hurt him in anyway. Pedo he is not. but the popstar Micheal Jackson everybody loves was a reall pedo he hurted young children but many poeopl are still likes hes music and i think is sick. Death In Venice is not a pedo movie but it seems like that. Like for idiots how don't undetstand Art and Youth
The man in the movie neve tuch the boy or hurt him in anyway. Pedo he is not. but the popstar Micheal Jackson everybody loves was a reall pedo he hurted young children but many poeopl are still likes hes music and i think is sick. Death In Venice is not a pedo movie but it seems like that. Like for idiots how don't undetstand Art and Youth
He used to have a very nasty character. He has complained about everything. Even about him being admired by so many people! He was like a piece of art and a human being in the same time. Yet he has protested big time when Germaine Greer has used one of his pictures on the cover of her book.
He despised gays even though he admitted to have had gay sex as a youth. He was vengeful and nasty, especially after one of his children died ( a son!). He is still married, he has two kids.
@48acar19 He had all his right to protest against that. People like being admired in general, but everybody has a limit. It's only human he got sick of all that attention. Doing something gay doesn't make you gay either, I don't think despise is the right word as far as I've read about it. Not trying to justify him but I don't see those things I just mentioned as something bad. As for his son, I didn't know that, that's kind of harsh I suppose.
@Platsick Agreed. They've tried to make him gay but that was not his path. He has the right to feel he's been used, as if he was some kind of object. I don't get why does it make him a jerk. That's ridiculous. I will always be greateful for him being so young and still so brilliant in the film. Her made history and he is ETERNAL.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
@48acar19 I agree with you, He was cute, but I read an interview and he sounds like an asshole even when he is 50-something. Not because he was beautiful I'm going to pretend he is smart and an awesome human being like many people does.
Yes, I know. I was so impressed years ago because of his beauty, but when I saw what kind of a jerk he is, all my sympathy for him has evaporated. After all, he was not the only super-beautiful boy in the world.
Michelangelo's love for super boys and for a young married man, named Cavilleri, was great! But Cavilleri was a great guy, even though he lacked any talent.
I noticed that there are so many super beautiful boys that are becoming assholes after their adolescence!
@48acar19 I always think masterful Visconti nurtured, pampered Bjorn in every possible way to take out transcendent quality of beauty from just a very pretty ordinary boy with extremely sophisticated posing of him , lighting and camera angle . And his art was perfected boy's demi god/father abandonned him completely never came back.
Animosity grown in the fogotten child is very understandable. So many times things work in that way.
Are you talking about his real father or about Visconti as being a father figure for him?
Anyway Visconti was gay and his gay sensibility is obvious.Visconti might have been very careful not to manifest any other interest in this boys except the artistic interest, because otherwise the Judaic-Christian mentality would have penalized him in a nasty way. We are no longer living in the Ancient Greece, where eroticism toward boys was a social duty and part of the education.
@48acar19 I read Bjorn's father was dead in his childhood. So I used the term "father" in symbolic allegorical way.
Yes, Visconti's gay sentiment gave this film great sensuality and pain. Yes, pain! Watching late works of Visconti, his self-punishment of his gay life style is very apparent. Not only in the Judaic-Christian mentality, but as proud aristocrat who cannot procreate. But it is very difficult to compare his sensibity to Ancient Greeks, as you know.
@Bnesque No, his father has abandonned him, he doesn't know who his father is to this very day. Bjorn's mother commited suicide when he was 10. His story was tragic even before Death in Venice and that's what gives him that extraordinary gravity and allure. He didn't need more problems in his life even before the film. Forcing him to trun into a gay icon at 15 only made everything even worse. It's shameful calling him ' a jerk' just because he rejected that status .
@anniemihn Thank you for clearing my inaccuracy about his life. But with your accurate biographical point of view, how can you judge "Forcing him to trun into a gay icon at 15 " is a fact?
And I'm not the one who called him 'a jerk'. Please adress correctly.
@Bnesque Well the fact that he complained a lot about the crew taking him to a gay bar in Cannes is the evidence he was hating it. Maybe 'forcing' was not accurate but they were REALLY trying to get him into the gay circle, against his will. Teenagers were pretty naive in the early 70's, it must have been a traumatizing experience for him for sure.
@anniemihn I read it. I thought Visconti did it to obtein from him those knowing but mocking smiles. Visconti was a "realismo" director, could be cruel to transfer his own vision into action.
This movie is great and transcendent with all the sacrifice from the actors. But at the same time Bjorn's beauty was crystlized forever in this as a great masterpiece of art.Great art sometimes devours people for its greatness.
@Bnesque Yeah art demands its sacrifices and Visconti was obsessed enough to manipulate an innoncent Bjorn in order to achieve his goals.
Still I'm really sorry that an already troubled and vulnerable teenager had to face new emotional issues because of the making of the film. But yes, I have to agree, Visconti made him a god on screen. He is part of movie history, he is eternal now.
@anniemihn If I was him, most painful might be the young imagery of you is immortalyzed as young god of beauty and already part of the history while you are living just as another person and people see you as a leftover of already finished masterpiece.
But watching its filming documentary, young Bjorn looked happy. I wish someday he can rethink accept whole the experience and appreciate those beautiful summer days in Venice. At least he had "father" at that time.
@Bnesque Yes it's about time he accepts that period of his life as a positive experience as well. Real life goes on but he was so extraordinary, not only because of his staggering beauty but because he was also so charismatic and elegant like no other adolescent at the time. That's the kind of an experience that not every human being can have in a lifetime. It's not just about Tiger Beat kind of celebrity. His name is engraved in the history of cinema forever.
@ojideagu I think he just represents here the absolute beauty that transcends masculinity/feminity restriction. I believe Visconti's idea was the same.
@Bnesque I disagree. Male beauty is not the same as female. This boy has a feminine body and face. You would assume this was a young girl if you were not informed. I guess we have different idea's about it.
To me male beauty involves masculine traits which is pretty logical. This boy possess none.
@ojideagu Well you have extremely rigid notion of gender. I think 100% masculinity or 100% feminity is a illusion. Can't you recognize female canon of beauty like Vénus de Milo or Monna Liza has slice of masculinity in them?
@Bnesque Beauty is relative anyway. The Mona Lisa is not beautiful to me. It's a beautiful PAINTING of an average woman. Venus is not beautiful to me either. It's a beautiful CONCEPT and Artwork, but the actual woman as she is often depicted is not beautiful to me. Ideas of beauty change through time.
I sort of agree I am being rigid, but this boy does not represent masculine beauty in my opinion.
Feminine yes. Pre-pubescent boys are very similar looking to girls until hormones kick in.
@ojideagu Yes how we conceive beauty change depending on the era or social strudture or personal favouritism.
I too see feminity in this boy. I don't deny. But when you look back the history of beaux art you would be stunned to find expression of feminity in lad appearing in so many era, especially some of the works of Leonard to Gustave Moreau. I appreciate very much these diversity in the notion of beauty.
@ojideagu It could be that the boy represents lost innocence to the composer---he can be taken on a lot of different levels. We have to strip away our own sexual hangups when watching a film such as this--take it at its own level. Teaching people to open themselves about sexuality is the hardest thing---many are hung up on their bodies, even in this 'enlightend age' --so they persecute those who are enjoying THEIRS.
@48acar19 On the contrary I think "ought to be straight life style" is imprinted in our psyche, like having monogamous marriage(with a few exception in non Judeo-Christian countries), procreating, raising children well. And people living outside of this realm are forced to feel alienated or pressured in many ways.
@48acar19 Being against phedophiles doesn't imply being a narrow minded Judaic-Christian at all. That's really a ridiculous and nasty thought. Yes we are living in the 21th century, thank God. I think you're very unhappy about it yes?
This is exactly the type of reaction Visconti would have feared and hated.
The so-called Judeo-Christian moralists would have accesed him of being a pedophile, without even knowing that pedophiles are people attracted to children under 12, not over 15 like Andresen at that time.
Personally I think that the non-sexual relations described by Plato in his dialog Phaidros would have helped not just Andresen, but any other boy. But he could have been attacked by morons.
@48acar19 I'm not accusing Visconti, who was a great artist. I'm a great fan of his film and other gay artist's works. I'm accusing you, who is trying to justify child molestation. Bjorn was straight and nobody has the right to influence his sexual option. That's what jerks like you do. No every gay man is as mean as you.
I am accusing the Judaic-Christian ethics. Plato has described the nurturing of young men, which gave awesome results in the ancient times. But it is a known tradition of the religionists to distort things.
Until recently, gays were condemned to prison or/and even to death by people like you.
Yet you are changing the subject of this discussion where it is convenient for you!
Again, I'm so sorry child molestation is a crime today and pedophiles do go to jail when discovered. It's called EVOLUTION idiot. In ancient times they used to sacrifice children as well, I think thart's ok with you.
BTW I have great gay friends, none of them as despicable as you. Religion has nothing to do with this discussion, you are the one who is changing the subject here. Ridiculous really.
I have never talked here about sex. not even about pedophilia, yet you are repeating it again and again. Read my remarks! You are really specialized in slander.
Fortunately I am not your gay friend. Anyway, the last time when the Judaic-Christian ethics has producedd results was in 1861, when thousands of people like you have aplauded the process of hanging for a "sodomite" in London, in the name of the Bible.
Saying "I have gay friends" does not justify your bad faith.
@48acar19 Really pathetic. You're forcing me to look like a homophobe but that's how dishonest you are. I' m hating pedophiles, not gays. Don't know why you're so obsessed about the Judaic-Christian ethics but please, seek help and get over it. I'm happy you're not one of my gay friends as well, they are all prejudice-free, healthy guys, nothing like you, therefore.
I have never talked about sex and even less about molestation. I have good reasons to be against the Judaic-Christian ethics but you are insisting again and again and again about molestation, like I would be for it.
It would be a good idea for you to stop accusing people you don't know of anything.
I am the first one to be glad that I don't have such "friends" like you.
Nobody is forcing you to do anything. You started accusing me, after I criticized Andresen. Not me!
@48acar19 Your words, hypocirte: 'thousands of people like you have aplauded the process of hanging for a "sodomite" in London, in the name of the Bible'. See? You don't know me and you're calling me a religious fanatic and homophobe, it's hilarious. Please, seek help and stay away from children.
Now I know exactly who you are. The last time you have sent me death threats for saying mentioning the Judaic-Christian ethics. You have described yourself as being a young Jewish woman. Then you attacked gays.
Yes, the Torah is extremely bad. It describes for the first time in hystory the Ethnic Cleansing (before Hitler!). Yes, it does allow men to sell their daughters in slavery!
Yes, it says that gays should be killed.Even some women and children. It is an awful book.
I am very unhappy about saying that the Judaic-Christian ethics was better than the Ancient Greek mentality, yes. And Plato did not talk about raping childrean at all.
But the Bible and the Torah talks about that a lot.
You can find there "god" ordering the Jews to kill all the amakekites, including children, pregnant women, pigs and actually everything. God" says it is OK to sell their daughters in slavery.
Continuing my post.... Visconti, by making the boy 16 - today within the legal age of consent for homosexual acts in many countries - undermines essential elements of the story: the innocence of the boy, the impossibility of fulfillment of von Ashenbach's desires and the utter corruption of the boy that would result.
@alottaUtube children are often flattered by the attention they receive from an adult. These days, with our paranoia about paedophilia and cynical suspicion of adults' motivation, a sixteen year old receiving such attention way well react differently, but a 14 year old (or an 11 year old) in the much more hierarchical and rather more innocent times in which the book is set may well have liked the attention without in any way understanding its true nature.
I have this movie I bought some years ago, and want I don't understand is.... why is this boy admiring the man who's admiring him? I mean, it's not like that man is beautiful himself too! I don't get what the director wanted as far as the boy looking back at him.
@alottaUtube well... you should read the novel, and the boy's motives are not altogether clear, other than curiosity, I wouldn't call it "admiration".
Beautiful, but at 16 too old. Tadzio in the book is 14. I think Mann wanted to tell a simple, highly autobiographical story but felt he had to take it to a higher plane to make it more respectable, and in his hands it's none the worse for that. I suspect Mann, like many English public schoolboys, found himself attracted to pre-pubescent boys while himself a schoolboy in an all male environment and never quite got over it. Benjamin Britten seems to have been afflicted in rather the same way.
I havn't read the original German, but in my translation of Mann's novella by Lowe-Porter it says "a long-haired boy of about fourteen". Are you perhaps thinking of the boy on whom Mann based the story, who I believe was eleven?
I havn't read the original German, but in my translation of Mann's novella by Lowe-Porter it says "a long-haired boy of about fourteen". Are you perhaps thinking of the boy on whom Mann based the story, who I believe was eleven?
Despite the homoerotic elements of Mann's novella and especially Visconti's film, the story is much more than that. Mann wrote on many levels simultaneously. Some higher levels are particularly sophisticated and require a broad education and specific knowledge of his times and language (more recent translations are better than the old.) Mann's actual experience in Venice: "Tadzio" was Wladyslaw Moes, and the friend was Janek Fudakowska. Wladzio read the book in 1923 and recognized himself.
Tadzio, come la Nike di Samotracia, RESTA nell' immaginario collettivo
la bellezza dell' attore quindicenne ha ceduto inevitabilmente il passo...
mi fa tenerezza pensare al carico che l' UOMO Bjorn dev'essersi trascinato nel tempo..., fino all'esternazione di quell' invito spudorato a fare un giro di valzer nel gay bar da parte dell'accolita di vecchie checche
una cosa è l' Arte, altra cosa la Vita
d'altronde, anche il buon Chaplin tiranneggiava sadicamente figli & servitori
Tadzio, come la Nike di Samotracia, RESTA nell' immaginario collettivo
la bellezza dell' attore quindicenne ha ceduto inevitabilmente il passo...
mi fa tenerezza pensare al carico che l' UOMO Bjorn dev'essersi trascinato nel tempo..., fino all'esternazione di quell' invito spudorato a fare un giro di valzer nel gay bar da parte dell'accolita di vecchie checche
una cosa è l' Arte, altra cosa la Vita
d'altronde, anche il buon Chaplin tiranneggiava sadicamente figli & servitori
This movie is so beautiful! The actors, the settings, the music.. Everything works! The costumedesigns are great too. I love how they put Bjorn/Tadzio in such ''innocent'' outfits like the sailor suit, the glittery angelwhite blouse, the striped bathingsuits and the cute hats he's wearing! <3
He is so pretty, cant believe it. It's music and undertones are like Lolita, the short staring scenes, the music and the slow motion scenes, if only the guy staring at him was handsome.
Nice guy, but way too female in my eye. Not my cup of tea, to be honest, although, not beeing gay, I'm able to recognize and admire that kind of male beauty, which can't be seen very often. But in this case I can't find the devine beauty that Thomas Mann masterly developed in his novel, which is a true pleasure to read. By the way, Dirk Bogarde here as the youth-seeking tragic figure did the hardest, most admirable and most sensitive job, maybe due to the fact, that he was gay AND a great actor.
@Zelamir Personally I don't see why a pre pubescent boy looking like a girl is seen as male beauty? Does a girl looking like a boy represent female beauty? No.
He looks like a girl with a penis, plain and simple. One step from Transgender.
"I was only 16 when directed by Luchino Visconti and his team took me in a gay club. Almost all of them were gay. Because of visitors, I felt terribly uncomfortable. They openly stared at me as if I had the delicious meat a delicacy. I knew that I could not respond. That would be social suicide ", - says Andersen. On a wave of hysteria in the press a young man went to homosexual contacts, but realized that it - not for him.
The relation between Aschenbach and Tadzio was inspired in a famous couple, who stayed at the Grand Hôtel des Bains in 1909. The older mas was 37. He never bathed in public. He just watched the younger (21 years old) goes bathing and sunned himself. They were lovers. They were Diaghilev and Vaslav Nijinski.
-the entire novel happens in aschenbach's mind. when he rationalizes his feelings as "intellectual appreciation", he may be in self-denial of his homosexuality
-thomas mann was a genius. the reason the reader feels such strong sexual overtones is b/c mann MEANT to have them there, they arent an accident
-mann once stayed at hotel des bains and leered at a 14-yr old polish boy, later writing to sigmund freud admitting homosexual feelings towards the boy... hmmmm
The whole premise of this movie and the book behind the movie is lust toward a minor...PERIOD!!!
In the USA today...if an Adult male stalks and lusts after an underage boy...he is probably going to be arrested and questioned. Good! - he should be.
Why you queer sickos defend this movie and say it is OK to have sexual desires for a minor is BEYOND me!
All you artsy fartsy people seem to do is cloak something perverted like this in a "artistic" aura and sanctify your sickness.
I think that Tadzio represents beauty and youth, and thats what the protagonist is really after- hence why he starts to wear makeup and dyes later on in the film, which was used by men at the time to look 'younger'. I sincerely doubt there's much sexual attraction between him and Tadzio, possibly romantic, but I think its mainly longing and fascination.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
The whole premise of this movie and the book behind the movie is lust toward a minor...PERIOD!!!
In the USA today...if an Adult male stalks and lusts after an underage boy...he is probably going to be arrested and questioned. Good! - he should be.
Why you queer sickos defend this movie and say it is OK to have sexual desires for a minor is BEYOND me!
All you artsy fartsy people seem to do is cloak something perverted like this in a "artistic" aura and sanctify your sickness.
It's true that the actions of the adult man in the movie are wrong but this shouldn't stop people from watching the movie. Many movies have disturbing elements, take 'Lolita' for example, it has a similar theme but from what I hear it is a good movie. But I agree with you that some of the comments here are creepy.
this movie is kinda sick from what I see of it. yes the boys pretty but he's like 14. and whats with the creepy old dude lurkin' on him? but I agree with maximilianMontesa. I thought of the vampire armand the moment I saw him to. lol. just if he were older. cause I think armands hot. and I seriouslly don't want to think that of a 14 year old boy!!!
In the book the kid is even younger...so don't be that shocked. By the way, Bogarde's character dies at the end all dignity lost. This film depicts the physical and psychological decadence of a man. The conflict between the apolinian and the dyonisiac sides of life and art.
Why is it so wrong to find a fourteen year old boy attractive? One need not always view a person with appealing physical traits as an object of sexual desire. They can just as well be viewed as a piece of beautiful artwork; something that is simply very pretty to look at.
You're missing the point of the film. It's about a man who's lost his wife, is on holiday from his work as a professor at university, is ill, and goes to Venice. Danchu reminds him of youth and rare beauty.
if you read the original novella, you'd see that this is NOT what the story is about....
the film poorly conveyed the psychological themes, ie. the consequences of aschenbach's suppression of his impulsive, sexual side, which were so dominant in the book. it should never have been made into a film.
that being said, the "point of the film" still is not aschenbach's real life, rather, it is his mental degradation and the nature of his resurging homosexual side, which were inspired by tadzio.
Hermosa pelìcula por no decir que la mejor que he visto en muchos años.Làstima su final tan triste y la manera tan infame como engañaron a su protagonista en la filmaciòn de la misma y como dañaron su vida para siempre.
The kid is cute: "androgynous" describes him better than beautiful. He has a face that could belong to a boy or girl. I'm not surprised that he retired from acting. The
book was controversial, the movie more so, for its polite treatment of a taboo subject. Whatever his orientation, this film alone would have typed him and
made him an icon for people who possibly didn't share it.
I've read the book: did you read my COMMENT?? The book is a piece of art because it describes that kind of spiralling obsession from the point of view of the pedophile, whose high flown
rationalizations are not shared by those
who notice his conduct. For the record,
I am a white woman, and mother of a
18 year old son. My age is part of my moniker. Read this book years ago: know exactly what it's about. Back off, bruiser.
I actually admire him for staying out of the media and personal interest that has pursued this film. What can he say now?
Death in Venice is one of the supreme achievements of cinema on many levels and the sheer beauty of Bjorn - not only his face but his movements and grace - is a central part of that.
Bjorn Andresen is hauntingly beautiful! Beauty beyond compare. I could understand how painters, sculpters, musicians etc. would find his beauty inspirational. It is an ethereal beauty that touches the soul. Many blessings to Bjorn. He once stated that he felt like an exotic animal in a cage, only there to be stared at and admired. My heart goes out to him on that. I'm sure that he is an amazing man, husband and father now. I will always treasure this film and love and admire his beauty.
jegspillerpiano, I would agree that there is an element of unspoken "love" between the man and Tadzio. And that this could possibly lead to a physical encounter, which is evident in a couple scenes when Tadzio seems to be overtly flirting with the man, i.e. the elevator scene. But, I take the movie on a deeper meaning of old age vs youth, regret vs joyous innocence.
I have to disagree with Jegspillerpiano's comment that the man's ultimate desire is to have sex with Tadzio. It is not. The movie is about a man falling apart after a tragedy. The world had become ugly to him. And then he finds Tadzio and he once again sees the beauty and wonder of life. Tadzio represents pure innocence, pure beauty, undeniable and eternal. And this beautiful boy gives him hope yet again that the world is not ugly.
No I think everyone is afraid of Jegspillerpiano's frank albeit graphic commentary. There is a grain of truth to what he says let's not ignore the double standard that society forces, had Tadzio been a young burgeoning woman then it would be just fine that an older man desired her. "Sweet 16" there are many cultural hetero sexual references, homophobia= the denial. Yes I can see why you say I don't disagree with the deeper philosophical aspects but the raw animal lust is there it is undeniable.
CBpunk, i agree that is the text of the movie on the outside, and perhaps even the man himself believes those higher issues is what he is all about. His adoration of the'innocence, pure beauty, undeniable and eternal' as you put is so well, would neverthelss have to find comsummation in sexual relations with the boy.
And surely (Hearlessiceboy) that is the whole point? Such beauty is not built to last.... like the rose blooms but briefly at the height of its perfection and then, all too rapidly, decays. The book/ film go beyond the merely homosexual, or any kind of sexual love... the hauntingly sweet bird of youth, the poignant recognition in the old that this they once had, and could have.... many levels and layers whether in the book (where the attraction is not so overt) or Visconti's beautiful film.
I thought Mann was just trying to foreshadow Aschenbach's own death ironically. Wistful rellection on the brevity of youth was more Wilde's gig than Mann's.
i see the film as an excruciatingly painful, bitter-sweet open ended question. On the one hand obsession with the boy's beauty might be based on all the deep philosophical issues you mention. On the other hand it all just comes down to he wants to see him naked, he wants to kiss him and love him and be loved by him, and would dearly enjoy sucking his cock and fucking his ass. Sorry to be crude, but this is the perhaps the simple bottom line in all adulation of beauty of youth.
I absolutely agree, everyone is in denial and desperate to make it an 'art' film because they fear the double standard of homophobia. If Tadzio was a young girl on the verge of womanhood than it would not be so scandalous. Older men and young women is fine in our culture but older man young man taboo it is simple double standard. There are many cultural references that support the heterosexual counterpart, it is ok if a woman is a sexual object but not a man? Heterosexism 101 my dears.
This has been flagged as spam show
Luchino Visconti’s “Death in Venice” (1971) and How It Was Misperceived By The American Mass Cultural Worldview – (De-sublimated) “Sexcitement” vs. Overtones of Homoeroticism As A Part of Existential Sublime
Creative Emotional Alchemy of A priori Re-incarnation
by victor enyutin
victor72235 3 days ago
Bound to this movie nowadays many talk about gays or pedophils. But at the time Thomas Mann wrote the book such a theme was out of reach. He describes a famous artists mental disorders about reaching beautys perfection. It´s a dramatic, mental and poetic book and movie - a man who slowly gets killed by mental suicide after he lost his daughter, wife and music. I´m sure Tadzio was some kind of symbol for all he lost - reminding all happyness gone forever - right in front, but out of reach
Echnaton1954 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
When Tadzio gets kissed was that supposed to mean he and his friend were lovers?
keaney123321 1 week ago
I hate that movie, cause old fat guys think, they should hunt me, when I`m out to splash on a gay party. I`m not a weightwatcher, or a male nurse for old fat family guys! -They just want to enslave everyone to their daydreams, who looks healthy & spiritually mature!
DOYENZOA 1 month ago
absolutely obsessed with him.
t33ngoth 1 month ago
@ThisIsMe2010: how to insult in one only comment the immortal work of Thomas Mann but and its movie version by one of the greatest directors of all time. Congratulations!
Artfond 2 months ago
This movie destoryed his acting career. He is remembered as Tadzio in Death in Venice, what else?
TheSpeaknoevil 3 months ago
@TheSpeaknoevil Destroyed his acting career? How so, pray tell.
windstorm1000 2 months ago
So...it's slow-paced, has no dialogue between the main characters, takes place in a time period when guys still wore those striped one-pieces, and the main character is a middle-aged writer who spends the majority of his time stalking a particularly pretty teenage boy who may or may not be aware of it?
...
Yep, it's a european art film.
TheThisIsMe2010 4 months ago
@TheThisIsMe2010 this is an adaption of the 1912 Novel "Death in Venice" by Thomas Mann, a masterpiece of writing. This movie does not at all cover the intentions and associations wich are given in the Book.
nightm4re09 1 month ago
Fuck this! This film is so gay and creepy. 3/4 of the aimed audience must be pervy queers. The point is if that guy got a haircut like every other normal guy, he would no longer be considered "beautiful", end of.
prettyb0y1992 5 months ago
@prettyb0y1992 The guy would still be the most beautiful boy with his hair cut while nobody could be in the least beautiful with the same hair length and style as his.
SuperMimiyan 4 months ago 2
@SuperMimiyan Well many people have diffrent tastes, not everyone is attracted to blonde hair and very pale skin. Alot of men & women prefer olive skin and dark hair and call that beautiful.
prettyb0y1992 4 months ago
@prettyb0y1992 What I wanted to say is that even with olive skin and dark hair ,Bjorn is still the most beautiful person to me . The movie director let him dye his hair blond ( He originally has dark hair color.) and put on much make-ups on his face to make the movie more impressive. I respect your opinion.
SuperMimiyan 4 months ago
@prettyb0y1992 You say that with a screen name like 'pretty boy'? And besides, everyone has subjective tastes to what they think is beautiful. No need to be an ass about it.
TheThisIsMe2010 4 months ago
@prettyb0y1992 men have loved boys for thousands of years (Socrates, Plato and Alexander). I don't approve of this, but its part of human nature. U are judging all that history from your very narrow Puritan outlook. You are one tiny speck in the spectrum of human sexual behavior. What' creepy is people killing each other in wars---that's the worst. & you are a redneck--so why are you watching this? Go back to hunting alligators, bubba and leave those who do enjoy it alone.
windstorm1000 2 months ago
@windstorm1000 SILENCE!!! YOU QUEER FUCK!! I'LL SAY WHAT THE FUCK I WANT, GO SUCK A DICK GAYBOY BECAUSE YOUR COMMENT IS INVALID..
prettyb0y1992 2 months ago
i 1st saw him on the cover of Germaine Greer's book "The beautiful boy", & my 1st thought was "who's that ridiculously gorgeous boy?"
missineichen 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The man in the movie never tuch the boy or hurt him in anyway. Pedo he is not. but the popstar Micheal Jackson everybody loves was a reall pedo he hurted young children but many poeopl are still likes hes music and i think is sick. Death In Venice is not a pedo movie but it seems like that. Like for idiots how don't undetstand Art and Youth
VegaValentino 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The man in the movie neve tuch the boy or hurt him in anyway. Pedo he is not. but the popstar Micheal Jackson everybody loves was a reall pedo he hurted young children but many poeopl are still likes hes music and i think is sick. Death In Venice is not a pedo movie but it seems like that. Like for idiots how don't undetstand Art and Youth
VegaValentino 6 months ago
Erata: "the Judeo-Christian moralists would have accused him..."
48acar19 7 months ago
Comment removed
joaomarcio77 8 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Nevertheless Bjorn was an asshole...
48acar19 8 months ago
@48acar19 How so?
Platsick 7 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@Platsick
He used to have a very nasty character. He has complained about everything. Even about him being admired by so many people! He was like a piece of art and a human being in the same time. Yet he has protested big time when Germaine Greer has used one of his pictures on the cover of her book.
He despised gays even though he admitted to have had gay sex as a youth. He was vengeful and nasty, especially after one of his children died ( a son!). He is still married, he has two kids.
48acar19 7 months ago
@48acar19 He had all his right to protest against that. People like being admired in general, but everybody has a limit. It's only human he got sick of all that attention. Doing something gay doesn't make you gay either, I don't think despise is the right word as far as I've read about it. Not trying to justify him but I don't see those things I just mentioned as something bad. As for his son, I didn't know that, that's kind of harsh I suppose.
Platsick 7 months ago 14
@Platsick Agreed. They've tried to make him gay but that was not his path. He has the right to feel he's been used, as if he was some kind of object. I don't get why does it make him a jerk. That's ridiculous. I will always be greateful for him being so young and still so brilliant in the film. Her made history and he is ETERNAL.
anniemihn 7 months ago 6
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@48acar19 I agree with you, He was cute, but I read an interview and he sounds like an asshole even when he is 50-something. Not because he was beautiful I'm going to pretend he is smart and an awesome human being like many people does.
perversinafe 7 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@perversinafe
Yes, I know. I was so impressed years ago because of his beauty, but when I saw what kind of a jerk he is, all my sympathy for him has evaporated. After all, he was not the only super-beautiful boy in the world.
Michelangelo's love for super boys and for a young married man, named Cavilleri, was great! But Cavilleri was a great guy, even though he lacked any talent.
I noticed that there are so many super beautiful boys that are becoming assholes after their adolescence!
48acar19 7 months ago
@48acar19 I always think masterful Visconti nurtured, pampered Bjorn in every possible way to take out transcendent quality of beauty from just a very pretty ordinary boy with extremely sophisticated posing of him , lighting and camera angle . And his art was perfected boy's demi god/father abandonned him completely never came back.
Animosity grown in the fogotten child is very understandable. So many times things work in that way.
Bnesque 7 months ago
@Bnesque @Bnesque
Are you talking about his real father or about Visconti as being a father figure for him?
Anyway Visconti was gay and his gay sensibility is obvious.Visconti might have been very careful not to manifest any other interest in this boys except the artistic interest, because otherwise the Judaic-Christian mentality would have penalized him in a nasty way. We are no longer living in the Ancient Greece, where eroticism toward boys was a social duty and part of the education.
48acar19 7 months ago
@48acar19 I read Bjorn's father was dead in his childhood. So I used the term "father" in symbolic allegorical way.
Yes, Visconti's gay sentiment gave this film great sensuality and pain. Yes, pain! Watching late works of Visconti, his self-punishment of his gay life style is very apparent. Not only in the Judaic-Christian mentality, but as proud aristocrat who cannot procreate. But it is very difficult to compare his sensibity to Ancient Greeks, as you know.
Bnesque 7 months ago
@Bnesque No, his father has abandonned him, he doesn't know who his father is to this very day. Bjorn's mother commited suicide when he was 10. His story was tragic even before Death in Venice and that's what gives him that extraordinary gravity and allure. He didn't need more problems in his life even before the film. Forcing him to trun into a gay icon at 15 only made everything even worse. It's shameful calling him ' a jerk' just because he rejected that status .
anniemihn 7 months ago 4
@anniemihn Thank you for clearing my inaccuracy about his life. But with your accurate biographical point of view, how can you judge "Forcing him to trun into a gay icon at 15 " is a fact?
And I'm not the one who called him 'a jerk'. Please adress correctly.
Bnesque 7 months ago
@Bnesque Well the fact that he complained a lot about the crew taking him to a gay bar in Cannes is the evidence he was hating it. Maybe 'forcing' was not accurate but they were REALLY trying to get him into the gay circle, against his will. Teenagers were pretty naive in the early 70's, it must have been a traumatizing experience for him for sure.
anniemihn 7 months ago
@anniemihn I read it. I thought Visconti did it to obtein from him those knowing but mocking smiles. Visconti was a "realismo" director, could be cruel to transfer his own vision into action.
This movie is great and transcendent with all the sacrifice from the actors. But at the same time Bjorn's beauty was crystlized forever in this as a great masterpiece of art.Great art sometimes devours people for its greatness.
Bnesque 7 months ago
@Bnesque Yeah art demands its sacrifices and Visconti was obsessed enough to manipulate an innoncent Bjorn in order to achieve his goals.
Still I'm really sorry that an already troubled and vulnerable teenager had to face new emotional issues because of the making of the film. But yes, I have to agree, Visconti made him a god on screen. He is part of movie history, he is eternal now.
anniemihn 7 months ago 3
@anniemihn If I was him, most painful might be the young imagery of you is immortalyzed as young god of beauty and already part of the history while you are living just as another person and people see you as a leftover of already finished masterpiece.
But watching its filming documentary, young Bjorn looked happy. I wish someday he can rethink accept whole the experience and appreciate those beautiful summer days in Venice. At least he had "father" at that time.
Bnesque 7 months ago 3
@Bnesque Yes it's about time he accepts that period of his life as a positive experience as well. Real life goes on but he was so extraordinary, not only because of his staggering beauty but because he was also so charismatic and elegant like no other adolescent at the time. That's the kind of an experience that not every human being can have in a lifetime. It's not just about Tiger Beat kind of celebrity. His name is engraved in the history of cinema forever.
anniemihn 7 months ago 11
@Bnesque This does not represent male beauty, it represents feminine beauty.
ojideagu 5 months ago
@ojideagu I think he just represents here the absolute beauty that transcends masculinity/feminity restriction. I believe Visconti's idea was the same.
Bnesque 5 months ago
@Bnesque I disagree. Male beauty is not the same as female. This boy has a feminine body and face. You would assume this was a young girl if you were not informed. I guess we have different idea's about it.
To me male beauty involves masculine traits which is pretty logical. This boy possess none.
A girl with male traits is regarded as ugly.
ojideagu 5 months ago
@ojideagu Well you have extremely rigid notion of gender. I think 100% masculinity or 100% feminity is a illusion. Can't you recognize female canon of beauty like Vénus de Milo or Monna Liza has slice of masculinity in them?
Bnesque 5 months ago
@Bnesque Beauty is relative anyway. The Mona Lisa is not beautiful to me. It's a beautiful PAINTING of an average woman. Venus is not beautiful to me either. It's a beautiful CONCEPT and Artwork, but the actual woman as she is often depicted is not beautiful to me. Ideas of beauty change through time.
I sort of agree I am being rigid, but this boy does not represent masculine beauty in my opinion.
Feminine yes. Pre-pubescent boys are very similar looking to girls until hormones kick in.
ojideagu 5 months ago
@ojideagu Yes how we conceive beauty change depending on the era or social strudture or personal favouritism.
I too see feminity in this boy. I don't deny. But when you look back the history of beaux art you would be stunned to find expression of feminity in lad appearing in so many era, especially some of the works of Leonard to Gustave Moreau. I appreciate very much these diversity in the notion of beauty.
Bnesque 5 months ago
@ojideagu It could be that the boy represents lost innocence to the composer---he can be taken on a lot of different levels. We have to strip away our own sexual hangups when watching a film such as this--take it at its own level. Teaching people to open themselves about sexuality is the hardest thing---many are hung up on their bodies, even in this 'enlightend age' --so they persecute those who are enjoying THEIRS.
windstorm1000 2 months ago
@Bnesque BTW I was not accusing you of calling him a jerk, I was merely mentioning the other nasty poster's quote.
anniemihn 7 months ago
@Bnesque
There is actually no gay life style as there is no straight life style.
48acar19 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@48acar19 On the contrary I think "ought to be straight life style" is imprinted in our psyche, like having monogamous marriage(with a few exception in non Judeo-Christian countries), procreating, raising children well. And people living outside of this realm are forced to feel alienated or pressured in many ways.
Bnesque 7 months ago
@48acar19 Being against phedophiles doesn't imply being a narrow minded Judaic-Christian at all. That's really a ridiculous and nasty thought. Yes we are living in the 21th century, thank God. I think you're very unhappy about it yes?
anniemihn 7 months ago 4
@anniemihn
This is exactly the type of reaction Visconti would have feared and hated.
The so-called Judeo-Christian moralists would have accesed him of being a pedophile, without even knowing that pedophiles are people attracted to children under 12, not over 15 like Andresen at that time.
Personally I think that the non-sexual relations described by Plato in his dialog Phaidros would have helped not just Andresen, but any other boy. But he could have been attacked by morons.
48acar19 7 months ago
@48acar19 I'm not accusing Visconti, who was a great artist. I'm a great fan of his film and other gay artist's works. I'm accusing you, who is trying to justify child molestation. Bjorn was straight and nobody has the right to influence his sexual option. That's what jerks like you do. No every gay man is as mean as you.
anniemihn 7 months ago 3
@anniemihn
Where did I support the child molestation?
This is the problem with the religionists.
I am accusing the Judaic-Christian ethics. Plato has described the nurturing of young men, which gave awesome results in the ancient times. But it is a known tradition of the religionists to distort things.
Until recently, gays were condemned to prison or/and even to death by people like you.
Yet you are changing the subject of this discussion where it is convenient for you!
48acar19 7 months ago
@48acar19 Religionist? LOL I'm an atheist.
Again, I'm so sorry child molestation is a crime today and pedophiles do go to jail when discovered. It's called EVOLUTION idiot. In ancient times they used to sacrifice children as well, I think thart's ok with you.
BTW I have great gay friends, none of them as despicable as you. Religion has nothing to do with this discussion, you are the one who is changing the subject here. Ridiculous really.
anniemihn 7 months ago
@anniemihn
I have never talked here about sex. not even about pedophilia, yet you are repeating it again and again. Read my remarks! You are really specialized in slander.
Fortunately I am not your gay friend. Anyway, the last time when the Judaic-Christian ethics has producedd results was in 1861, when thousands of people like you have aplauded the process of hanging for a "sodomite" in London, in the name of the Bible.
Saying "I have gay friends" does not justify your bad faith.
48acar19 7 months ago
@48acar19 Really pathetic. You're forcing me to look like a homophobe but that's how dishonest you are. I' m hating pedophiles, not gays. Don't know why you're so obsessed about the Judaic-Christian ethics but please, seek help and get over it. I'm happy you're not one of my gay friends as well, they are all prejudice-free, healthy guys, nothing like you, therefore.
anniemihn 7 months ago
@anniemihn
I have never talked about sex and even less about molestation. I have good reasons to be against the Judaic-Christian ethics but you are insisting again and again and again about molestation, like I would be for it.
It would be a good idea for you to stop accusing people you don't know of anything.
I am the first one to be glad that I don't have such "friends" like you.
Nobody is forcing you to do anything. You started accusing me, after I criticized Andresen. Not me!
48acar19 7 months ago
@48acar19 Your words, hypocirte: 'thousands of people like you have aplauded the process of hanging for a "sodomite" in London, in the name of the Bible'. See? You don't know me and you're calling me a religious fanatic and homophobe, it's hilarious. Please, seek help and stay away from children.
anniemihn 7 months ago
@anniemihn
You are really pathetic, lady!
I never talked here about sex, even less about liking Andresen. You are that person; you are the pedophile, lady, if anything, not me!!
I talked about the aweful Judaic-Chistian heritage, that has lead to killing people accused by witches like you!
Just because I said that I don't like Andresen's behaviour, I am receiving this fanatical bullshit from such pshychopath like you!
Go to psychiatrist, lady!
48acar19 7 months ago
@48acar19 Your Judaic-Christian obsession is hilarious. You REALLY need help, moron.
anniemihn 7 months ago
@anniemihn
Now I know exactly who you are. The last time you have sent me death threats for saying mentioning the Judaic-Christian ethics. You have described yourself as being a young Jewish woman. Then you attacked gays.
Yes, the Torah is extremely bad. It describes for the first time in hystory the Ethnic Cleansing (before Hitler!). Yes, it does allow men to sell their daughters in slavery!
Yes, it says that gays should be killed.Even some women and children. It is an awful book.
48acar19 7 months ago
@48acar19 I'm a jewish woman? LMAO. Sure, sure...Again, seek help urgently dude.
anniemihn 7 months ago
@anniemihn
I did not even mention sex!
Just because I am not a fan your beloved boy you are accusing me of...pedophilia!
This is just a coward tactic used by almost all the religionists@alike.
This is even strange!
I am attacking the Judaic-Christian ethics, indeed.
For two millenia so many people have suffered because of it!
48acar19 7 months ago
@anniemihn
By the way, the correct spelling is pedophiles, not phedophiles. Please check the dictionary.
48acar19 7 months ago
@anniemihn
I am very unhappy about saying that the Judaic-Christian ethics was better than the Ancient Greek mentality, yes. And Plato did not talk about raping childrean at all.
But the Bible and the Torah talks about that a lot.
You can find there "god" ordering the Jews to kill all the amakekites, including children, pregnant women, pigs and actually everything. God" says it is OK to sell their daughters in slavery.
Is it your good Judaic-Christian ethics?
48acar19 7 months ago
@48acar19 I'm not jewish or christian. Could you get over your obsessions please? I'm not even slightly interested in them.
anniemihn 7 months ago
I was shocked at how beautiful he was, really. Getting a copy of a 40 years old film only to find myself utterly mesmerized. Amazing
KairiHawkeye 9 months ago 4
@KairiHawkeye a once in a lifetime face-I too fell in love with him when I saw him
vaughangarrick 8 months ago 2
It is an angel. The most beautiful angel all I've seen!
ametllet 10 months ago 2
he has presence just like brooke shields had, beauty thats haunting
exitcheese 11 months ago
Beauty is the only thing that makes this life worth living.
FlorisVanHolland 11 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
FUCKING GAY MOVIE! LAME
renatoavatarian 1 year ago
Continuing my post.... Visconti, by making the boy 16 - today within the legal age of consent for homosexual acts in many countries - undermines essential elements of the story: the innocence of the boy, the impossibility of fulfillment of von Ashenbach's desires and the utter corruption of the boy that would result.
nwrwatts 1 year ago
@alottaUtube children are often flattered by the attention they receive from an adult. These days, with our paranoia about paedophilia and cynical suspicion of adults' motivation, a sixteen year old receiving such attention way well react differently, but a 14 year old (or an 11 year old) in the much more hierarchical and rather more innocent times in which the book is set may well have liked the attention without in any way understanding its true nature.
nwrwatts 1 year ago
I have this movie I bought some years ago, and want I don't understand is.... why is this boy admiring the man who's admiring him? I mean, it's not like that man is beautiful himself too! I don't get what the director wanted as far as the boy looking back at him.
alottaUtube 1 year ago
@alottaUtube well... you should read the novel, and the boy's motives are not altogether clear, other than curiosity, I wouldn't call it "admiration".
MrMartinportnoy 1 year ago
can we all be honest and admit that the movie is better than the book?
cleoxxxooo 1 year ago
flute music after 6:00 are perhaps, pipes of pan? signaling the captivation of our professor and the alure of the call?
aw, crap. it's prettty music.
cleoxxxooo 1 year ago
Beautiful, but at 16 too old. Tadzio in the book is 14. I think Mann wanted to tell a simple, highly autobiographical story but felt he had to take it to a higher plane to make it more respectable, and in his hands it's none the worse for that. I suspect Mann, like many English public schoolboys, found himself attracted to pre-pubescent boys while himself a schoolboy in an all male environment and never quite got over it. Benjamin Britten seems to have been afflicted in rather the same way.
nwrwatts 1 year ago
@nwrwatts in the book Tatzio is 11
MultiSigrun 1 year ago
@MultiSigrun
I havn't read the original German, but in my translation of Mann's novella by Lowe-Porter it says "a long-haired boy of about fourteen". Are you perhaps thinking of the boy on whom Mann based the story, who I believe was eleven?
nwrwatts 1 year ago
@nwrwatts I read somewhere that Lowe-Porter translation sucks. Anyway, Mann made Tadzio slightly older than the real one, who was indeed 11.
MrMartinportnoy 1 year ago
@MrMartinportnoy I have also heard others criticize Lowe-Porter. When I re-read the book I think I will try another translation.
nwrwatts 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MultiSigrun
I havn't read the original German, but in my translation of Mann's novella by Lowe-Porter it says "a long-haired boy of about fourteen". Are you perhaps thinking of the boy on whom Mann based the story, who I believe was eleven?
nwrwatts 1 year ago
what's the bit of flute music at 6:00 ?
3oMethylmorphine 1 year ago
Despite the homoerotic elements of Mann's novella and especially Visconti's film, the story is much more than that. Mann wrote on many levels simultaneously. Some higher levels are particularly sophisticated and require a broad education and specific knowledge of his times and language (more recent translations are better than the old.) Mann's actual experience in Venice: "Tadzio" was Wladyslaw Moes, and the friend was Janek Fudakowska. Wladzio read the book in 1923 and recognized himself.
sfkcbf 1 year ago
He was amazingly beautiful...my dreamboy.
MissPsycho83 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Tadzio, come la Nike di Samotracia, RESTA nell' immaginario collettivo
la bellezza dell' attore quindicenne ha ceduto inevitabilmente il passo...
mi fa tenerezza pensare al carico che l' UOMO Bjorn dev'essersi trascinato nel tempo..., fino all'esternazione di quell' invito spudorato a fare un giro di valzer nel gay bar da parte dell'accolita di vecchie checche
una cosa è l' Arte, altra cosa la Vita
d'altronde, anche il buon Chaplin tiranneggiava sadicamente figli & servitori
waterlookingbungalow 1 year ago
Tadzio, come la Nike di Samotracia, RESTA nell' immaginario collettivo
la bellezza dell' attore quindicenne ha ceduto inevitabilmente il passo...
mi fa tenerezza pensare al carico che l' UOMO Bjorn dev'essersi trascinato nel tempo..., fino all'esternazione di quell' invito spudorato a fare un giro di valzer nel gay bar da parte dell'accolita di vecchie checche
una cosa è l' Arte, altra cosa la Vita
d'altronde, anche il buon Chaplin tiranneggiava sadicamente figli & servitori
waterlookingbungalow 1 year ago
Nicely put together. Well done! One of the best films.
Vandertop 1 year ago
wheres the video for death in venice :s x
mellymoon005 1 year ago
he looks like a boticelli angel so stunning
XxTearsinHeavenx 1 year ago
This movie is so beautiful! The actors, the settings, the music.. Everything works! The costumedesigns are great too. I love how they put Bjorn/Tadzio in such ''innocent'' outfits like the sailor suit, the glittery angelwhite blouse, the striped bathingsuits and the cute hats he's wearing! <3
puckjuh1993 1 year ago
Comment removed
Antjuh22 1 year ago
Comment removed
Antjuh22 1 year ago
bjorn is so beautiful... if only the man admiring him was also
honeeybuns 1 year ago
He is so pretty, cant believe it. It's music and undertones are like Lolita, the short staring scenes, the music and the slow motion scenes, if only the guy staring at him was handsome.
hayamatsuka 1 year ago
@hayamatsuka Agree! I am not gay, or at least never thought I was, but seeing Tadzio in this movie almost made me want to try at being gay!
jegspillerpiano 1 year ago
Awww i've never heard a straight guy say that before =3, sorry i take it to heart coz I'm gay and normally straight guys take the piss out of me.
hayamatsuka 1 year ago
He was remind me Gilbert Cocteau from Kaze to Ki no Uta manga:
XD
sazuist 1 year ago 2
@sazuist Actually, Keiko Takemiya got the inspiration for Gilbert's character from this movie and Tadzio. :)
Adagietta 1 year ago
@Adagietta Really? She did no wonder they look so similiar
GlitterMoonful 1 year ago
@Adagietta Yes, you're right, Bjorn Andresen had many fans in Japan.
sazuist 1 year ago 2
@sazuist OMG you too i thought i was the only one! If Kazeki was ever made into a live action play he be perfect!
GlitterMoonful 1 year ago
Nice guy, but way too female in my eye. Not my cup of tea, to be honest, although, not beeing gay, I'm able to recognize and admire that kind of male beauty, which can't be seen very often. But in this case I can't find the devine beauty that Thomas Mann masterly developed in his novel, which is a true pleasure to read. By the way, Dirk Bogarde here as the youth-seeking tragic figure did the hardest, most admirable and most sensitive job, maybe due to the fact, that he was gay AND a great actor.
Zelamir 1 year ago
@Zelamir Personally I don't see why a pre pubescent boy looking like a girl is seen as male beauty? Does a girl looking like a boy represent female beauty? No.
He looks like a girl with a penis, plain and simple. One step from Transgender.
ojideagu 5 months ago
what a girly boy
zackhanscom 1 year ago
hes so beautiful !
zyzll 1 year ago 7
"I was only 16 when directed by Luchino Visconti and his team took me in a gay club. Almost all of them were gay. Because of visitors, I felt terribly uncomfortable. They openly stared at me as if I had the delicious meat a delicacy. I knew that I could not respond. That would be social suicide ", - says Andersen. On a wave of hysteria in the press a young man went to homosexual contacts, but realized that it - not for him.
Leninvoktatiabre 1 year ago
The relation between Aschenbach and Tadzio was inspired in a famous couple, who stayed at the Grand Hôtel des Bains in 1909. The older mas was 37. He never bathed in public. He just watched the younger (21 years old) goes bathing and sunned himself. They were lovers. They were Diaghilev and Vaslav Nijinski.
cgordonjr 1 year ago
his face is how i picture heaven..
chrystalballs 1 year ago
Noble
ykhappy 1 year ago
He looks like an angel, the most beautiful angel. *-*
MademoiselleDarklove 1 year ago 2
Such a story needs a youth of celestial beauty which the chosen actor isn't.
qqqquito 1 year ago
@qqqquito In that case that beauty does not exist, it is all relative/or a fantasy.
ojideagu 5 months ago
overlooked points with the novel:
-the entire novel happens in aschenbach's mind. when he rationalizes his feelings as "intellectual appreciation", he may be in self-denial of his homosexuality
-thomas mann was a genius. the reason the reader feels such strong sexual overtones is b/c mann MEANT to have them there, they arent an accident
-mann once stayed at hotel des bains and leered at a 14-yr old polish boy, later writing to sigmund freud admitting homosexual feelings towards the boy... hmmmm
oscarsmyavatar 1 year ago
shouldn't he be eating strawberries instead of oranges?!
vipolak 1 year ago
@vipolak No, it is Aschenbach who eats the foul strawberries.
MigaxdS91 1 year ago
@MigaxdS91 oh, yeah right thanks, i remember now....we read and analysed it in class, a few years ago =)
vipolak 1 year ago
@vipolak no problem! ;) I remember quite well since I have a paper on Tod in Venedig this Friday. :)
MigaxdS91 1 year ago
shouldn't he be eating strawberries instead of oranges?!
vipolak 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The whole premise of this movie and the book behind the movie is lust toward a minor...PERIOD!!!
In the USA today...if an Adult male stalks and lusts after an underage boy...he is probably going to be arrested and questioned. Good! - he should be.
Why you queer sickos defend this movie and say it is OK to have sexual desires for a minor is BEYOND me!
All you artsy fartsy people seem to do is cloak something perverted like this in a "artistic" aura and sanctify your sickness.
Sickos....
PaulDougouba 1 year ago
I think that Tadzio represents beauty and youth, and thats what the protagonist is really after- hence why he starts to wear makeup and dyes later on in the film, which was used by men at the time to look 'younger'. I sincerely doubt there's much sexual attraction between him and Tadzio, possibly romantic, but I think its mainly longing and fascination.
LadyEmilyElizabeth 1 year ago
@LadyEmilyElizabeth True, but where is the line drawn ? Romantic love/ Erotic feelings / Sexual attraction.
alexyomero76 1 year ago
he was very close to perfection!!!:)))
redmarkify 2 years ago
OMG! he is... he is a dream!!!!
pamtsulove 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The whole premise of this movie and the book behind the movie is lust toward a minor...PERIOD!!!
In the USA today...if an Adult male stalks and lusts after an underage boy...he is probably going to be arrested and questioned. Good! - he should be.
Why you queer sickos defend this movie and say it is OK to have sexual desires for a minor is BEYOND me!
All you artsy fartsy people seem to do is cloak something perverted like this in a "artistic" aura and sanctify your sickness.
PaulDougouba 2 years ago
It's true that the actions of the adult man in the movie are wrong but this shouldn't stop people from watching the movie. Many movies have disturbing elements, take 'Lolita' for example, it has a similar theme but from what I hear it is a good movie. But I agree with you that some of the comments here are creepy.
rickmanization 2 years ago
@rickmanization
You are the only person who has made a level headed comment here. Thank You.
I know that sometimes Art crosses boundaries of morality and religion and pushes the envelop of contemporary mores.
It is just soooo creepy how these guys come on You Tube here and comment and drool over an adolescent child actor like they do.
PaulDougouba 2 years ago
Have you seen the Emma Watson comments at all? Just wondering.
egapnala65 1 year ago
Björn Andrésen is the perfect Armand. The scene at 7:03 reminds me of Amadeo and Riccardo.
RazrshrpCandy 2 years ago
it sooooooooo does.
Hayubasa 2 years ago
Che bello...
arte730 2 years ago
this movie is kinda sick from what I see of it. yes the boys pretty but he's like 14. and whats with the creepy old dude lurkin' on him? but I agree with maximilianMontesa. I thought of the vampire armand the moment I saw him to. lol. just if he were older. cause I think armands hot. and I seriouslly don't want to think that of a 14 year old boy!!!
DieQuickProductions 2 years ago
In the book the kid is even younger...so don't be that shocked. By the way, Bogarde's character dies at the end all dignity lost. This film depicts the physical and psychological decadence of a man. The conflict between the apolinian and the dyonisiac sides of life and art.
ainhoator 2 years ago
why not?
redpaul79 2 years ago
Why is it so wrong to find a fourteen year old boy attractive? One need not always view a person with appealing physical traits as an object of sexual desire. They can just as well be viewed as a piece of beautiful artwork; something that is simply very pretty to look at.
Ivoryheart1313 2 years ago 10
@Ivoryheart1313 indeed!!!
MsIthinkthereforeIam 9 months ago
You're missing the point of the film. It's about a man who's lost his wife, is on holiday from his work as a professor at university, is ill, and goes to Venice. Danchu reminds him of youth and rare beauty.
Redcarpet01 2 years ago 2
if you read the original novella, you'd see that this is NOT what the story is about....
the film poorly conveyed the psychological themes, ie. the consequences of aschenbach's suppression of his impulsive, sexual side, which were so dominant in the book. it should never have been made into a film.
that being said, the "point of the film" still is not aschenbach's real life, rather, it is his mental degradation and the nature of his resurging homosexual side, which were inspired by tadzio.
oscarsmyavatar 1 year ago
Hermosa pelìcula por no decir que la mejor que he visto en muchos años.Làstima su final tan triste y la manera tan infame como engañaron a su protagonista en la filmaciòn de la misma y como dañaron su vida para siempre.
carfogo1946 2 years ago
i saw this movie some years ago and i stil love it.
30pastor 2 years ago
The kid is cute: "androgynous" describes him better than beautiful. He has a face that could belong to a boy or girl. I'm not surprised that he retired from acting. The
book was controversial, the movie more so, for its polite treatment of a taboo subject. Whatever his orientation, this film alone would have typed him and
made him an icon for people who possibly didn't share it.
bookkeeper57 2 years ago
No. You are an Illiterate lowlife. Have you even READ the book?
In the book (which I doubt you could read) Aschenbach has a homo erotic dream about Tadzio that definitly is descending into a sexual obsession.
In the book Tadzio's chaperons notice Aschenbach's sexual fixation and try and protect him from the perverted lust of his stalker.
You perverts seem to want to promote and defend Child Molestation and Stalking. That says a LOT about you people as human beings.
Sickos.
PaulDougouba 2 years ago
I've read the book: did you read my COMMENT?? The book is a piece of art because it describes that kind of spiralling obsession from the point of view of the pedophile, whose high flown
rationalizations are not shared by those
who notice his conduct. For the record,
I am a white woman, and mother of a
18 year old son. My age is part of my moniker. Read this book years ago: know exactly what it's about. Back off, bruiser.
bookkeeper57 2 years ago
Hauntingly beautiful indeed.
I actually admire him for staying out of the media and personal interest that has pursued this film. What can he say now?
Death in Venice is one of the supreme achievements of cinema on many levels and the sheer beauty of Bjorn - not only his face but his movements and grace - is a central part of that.
rob251149 2 years ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
Sad how you Boy Molesting Queers leer and drool over this child actor Bjorn Andresen.
You are some SICK perverts...
PaulDougouba 2 years ago
Bjorn Andresen is hauntingly beautiful! Beauty beyond compare. I could understand how painters, sculpters, musicians etc. would find his beauty inspirational. It is an ethereal beauty that touches the soul. Many blessings to Bjorn. He once stated that he felt like an exotic animal in a cage, only there to be stared at and admired. My heart goes out to him on that. I'm sure that he is an amazing man, husband and father now. I will always treasure this film and love and admire his beauty.
luvleeamethyst 2 years ago 28
Whenever I think of the vampire Armand, I see Björn Andrésen in my mind.
MaximilianMontesa 2 years ago 8
Actually, I imagine this is what a 15-16 year-old Lestat would look like.
solarenergy78 2 years ago 5
Maravillosa película y música.
rondaira 2 years ago
jegspillerpiano, I would agree that there is an element of unspoken "love" between the man and Tadzio. And that this could possibly lead to a physical encounter, which is evident in a couple scenes when Tadzio seems to be overtly flirting with the man, i.e. the elevator scene. But, I take the movie on a deeper meaning of old age vs youth, regret vs joyous innocence.
CBpunk666 2 years ago 3
I have to disagree with Jegspillerpiano's comment that the man's ultimate desire is to have sex with Tadzio. It is not. The movie is about a man falling apart after a tragedy. The world had become ugly to him. And then he finds Tadzio and he once again sees the beauty and wonder of life. Tadzio represents pure innocence, pure beauty, undeniable and eternal. And this beautiful boy gives him hope yet again that the world is not ugly.
CBpunk666 2 years ago 8
No I think everyone is afraid of Jegspillerpiano's frank albeit graphic commentary. There is a grain of truth to what he says let's not ignore the double standard that society forces, had Tadzio been a young burgeoning woman then it would be just fine that an older man desired her. "Sweet 16" there are many cultural hetero sexual references, homophobia= the denial. Yes I can see why you say I don't disagree with the deeper philosophical aspects but the raw animal lust is there it is undeniable.
plutodrvv 2 years ago
CBpunk, i agree that is the text of the movie on the outside, and perhaps even the man himself believes those higher issues is what he is all about. His adoration of the'innocence, pure beauty, undeniable and eternal' as you put is so well, would neverthelss have to find comsummation in sexual relations with the boy.
jegspillerpiano 2 years ago
how can i see this movi online, is pretty hot
thebibox 2 years ago 5
Did you try on Megaupload ???
Itachidrkcsa 2 years ago
if you want to watch it because it is "hot", don't bother..
This is not porno..it is a Cinematic masterpiece based on a extraordinary book by a Nobel price winner
eutuve 2 years ago 6
And surely (Hearlessiceboy) that is the whole point? Such beauty is not built to last.... like the rose blooms but briefly at the height of its perfection and then, all too rapidly, decays. The book/ film go beyond the merely homosexual, or any kind of sexual love... the hauntingly sweet bird of youth, the poignant recognition in the old that this they once had, and could have.... many levels and layers whether in the book (where the attraction is not so overt) or Visconti's beautiful film.
ssnharr 2 years ago 24
I thought Mann was just trying to foreshadow Aschenbach's own death ironically. Wistful rellection on the brevity of youth was more Wilde's gig than Mann's.
moogamax 2 years ago
i see the film as an excruciatingly painful, bitter-sweet open ended question. On the one hand obsession with the boy's beauty might be based on all the deep philosophical issues you mention. On the other hand it all just comes down to he wants to see him naked, he wants to kiss him and love him and be loved by him, and would dearly enjoy sucking his cock and fucking his ass. Sorry to be crude, but this is the perhaps the simple bottom line in all adulation of beauty of youth.
jegspillerpiano 2 years ago 5
I absolutely agree, everyone is in denial and desperate to make it an 'art' film because they fear the double standard of homophobia. If Tadzio was a young girl on the verge of womanhood than it would not be so scandalous. Older men and young women is fine in our culture but older man young man taboo it is simple double standard. There are many cultural references that support the heterosexual counterpart, it is ok if a woman is a sexual object but not a man? Heterosexism 101 my dears.
plutodrvv 2 years ago 4
@plutodrvv spot on!
MsIthinkthereforeIam 9 months ago