Slavery in the Bible: Slavery Dialogs (3 of 3)

[apostatexp]

Whenever I examine issues of morality and human well being in the bible I must conclude one of 3 things: Either 1.god is so incompetent he cannot put forth a coherent book that would improve human life on Earth. Or 2. he doesn't care about our well-being on Earth. Or 3. the bible is not the work of god. Any of these leads me to the position that the god of the bible is not worthy of my worship. The same can be said of any revealed religion.

[StopSpamming1]

Wow! Excellent series. Great balance of texts and comments.

[duckmanjoel]

Religion, and here we are talking about Christianity, is not an intellectual debate. I can't debate an atheist because religion is not an intellectual decision, although many "Christians" think that it is. Do you know the story where Jesus says I will tear this temple down and rebuild it in three days? That's what I'm talking about. Or watch this video: Carrie Underwood with Vince Gill How Great thou Art on Youtube

[apostatexp]

@duckmanjoel "I can't debate an atheist because religion is not an intellectual decision". Finally a Christian who is being honest!

But if your belief, your understanding of life, the world and everything, cannot be supported by any evidence, but only by faith and feelings, then on what basis do you choose which religion to believe? (And please don't assume I won't understand just because I am no longer a Xtian.)

[duckmanjoel]

@apostatexp That is a tough one for less than 500 characters. I am science minded, so eventually I ended up at the United Methodist Church.( Type science and United Methodist Church in google or google John Wesley). But I don't want to mislead you. As big a fan I am of Darwin, I believe that I am a Spiritual creature. Go to Duewest.org and check out Tom's sermons under resources. Or, do a comparison of Nicodemus vs. the Samaritan Woman... God is Love.

[duckmanjoel]

Jesus put an end to the law (Old Testament), so your argument is mute. Your argument is no more valid than the Creationist Cult who bring up all the Piltdown Man hoax. "The word of the cross is folly" to an unbeliever. Also, did I mention I am a BIG fan of Darwin. The truth is, we kill what we fear and we fear what we don't understand. You're in the dark on this one. I wish you well on your journey...

[DiscoveringReligion]

@duckmanjoel

What does Jesus putting an end to the judicial laws in the Old Testament have to do with the immorality of slavery? Please explain.

[davidthecook]

@DiscoveringReligion This man duckmanjoel left another comment but I don't think it was what you were looking for as far as a response goes for your question to his first comment. lol

[duckmanjoel]

@DiscoveringReligion You are not a Christian, so the Bible will not make sense to you. Jesus conquered death so this life doesn't matter anymore. We (believers) are new creatures in Christ. We live under Grace, but you have to be reborn. But like the pharisee you only see the folly, " enter into my Mother's womb?" The Bible has multiple levels of truth. The nxt story is an unnamed women who asks about living water. The two stories are together for comparison. Start with those two stories.

[Rationalific]

@duckmanjoel You obviously don't know how much better truth sounds than bullshit. But you are hanging on to the Bible for dear life, so you'll say anything to keep your delusion going. It's strange how people can become like you...so completely brainwashed by an idea that you're unable to reason or indeed have empathy if that does anything to upset your pre-existing belief. You are a sad human.

[duckmanjoel]

@Rationalific I know I'm not angry like you. Why do you have so much trouble respecting other peoples views? I know enough truth that if someone makes me angry, then that person controls me. You're enslaved to your anger and intellectual circle of thought. I am free in Christ. When Paul was Saul he was angry persecuting Christians. Maybe you should read the letters Paul wrote to the Corinthians. Paul actually wrote a lot of the New Testament. Start with what Paul wrote.

[apostatexp]

@duckmanjoel "You are not a Christian so the bible won't make sense to you" ROFL This is a very typical comment that Christians direct at atheists that ignores the fact that most of us were believers in the past. I myself almost entered seminary.

[duckmanjoel]

@apostatexp You might want to check out the book, Your God is Too Small, by J.B. Phillips. Then read Romans 10:4 "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." You can't put Jesus on your list; you have to see with His eyes and walk with His feet. Christianity is a way of life.

[apostatexp]

@duckmanjoel Matthew 5:18 "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." It isn't until Acts that the early church decides that gentiles becoming Christians don't need to follow the laws of Moses except to refrain from eating meat sacrificed to other gods. If there's a verse where Jesus or any NT writer "puts an end" to the law, pls tell us.

[duckmanjoel]

@apostatexp First off,the NT was not written in chronological order. So you missed that one (neither is the OT. Job the oldest, not Genesis).. Second, Christians live under grace; when Jesus died on the cross that covers the past, present, and future. Not enough characters to explain to someone who does not believe because the Bible only makes sense to believers. If you haven't been reborn in the Spirit, then you live in the dark, just like a 2 dimensional creature can't understand the 3D.

[apostatexp]

@duckmanjoel I didn't miss that. I know what order it was written in - I was speaking of the events chronologically. The gospels do not record Jesus "putting an end to the law" as you assert. If your assertion was correct, you would be able to answer the simple question with a verse instead of doing like your namesake and ducking the question with the standard "you can't understand cuz you're not a Christian." I WAS a Christian, and a very devout one, so I understand.

[ronwisegamgee]

@duckmanjoel The only law Jesus put an end to from the Old Testament was the blood sacrifice. According to Matthew 5:17: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

[duckmanjoel]

@ronwisegamgee Hey, read down a few. I already answered that. Read Romans 10:4. And no, it is not in contradiction to Matthew 5:17.

[ronwisegamgee]

@duckmanjoel Touché.

[20jandrews]

I like the monotone epressions of both characters; in so many instinces you have atheist mocking the way christians talk and that makes us look arrogant.... if we have more of those civil dicussions on youtube our side will always win

[Krappman]

Amazing work!

[20jandrews]

haitians dealts with their slavery... THEY REVOLTED!!!!!!!!!

[marcustsummers]

how can more people have seen the 3rd video than the second?

[almanzaf13]

reject the bible itself and rewrite it into something more joyful to read

[princerexor]

ATHEIST ARE ANGRY AND MAD.... They simply cannot resist being angry and mad.. We are angry and mad because theists try to justify the slavery in the bible and came up with a lot of excuses..

[bonnie43uk]

The stock answer you get from Christians when slavery is mentioned is that "back then slavery wasn't as we know it today, ..etc". You've clearly demonstrated slavery is exactly what it says on the tin.

Christians are quick to tell us "the good news"!, but rather lacking in telling us the less savoury parts of the bible.

An excellent series, thanks so much for making this.

[1955RodHot]

Excellent series. As others have noted, most Christians would not last this long in a debate about slavery before scoffing at your arguments and walking away. But let's hope some had the stomach to watch this whole series and give it some consideration. I've always heard the same "that was then" defense for genocide, infanticide, and mass rape as well, three more morally indefensible acts given God's blessing. But does "good" and "evil" change over time? You put a serious hole in that boat.

[PimpingRice]

MORALITY!

[avatarmn]

6:50. Ugh, I feel sick. Was that entirely necessary. ~_~

[raichutoyou]

A christian arguing slavery sounds more like this.

Search: In God We Trust Documentary by ScottBurdickArt at 1:56:54

The whole documentary is rather good, actually. Its about the hanging of a christian flag in the midwest.

This is harder to refute for most people in America. I think you give most christians too much benefit of the doubt that they would argue you this long.

[puellanivis]

Jesus addressed the issue of divorce. People challenged him on "you say divorce is wrong, but the OT says it's ok". To which Jesus responded that marriage is and was always wrong, but that god allowed it in the OT because god new that people suck, and were going to get divorces anyways. So, it was a form of harm reduction, rather than an actual sanctioning of the practice.

[OtherGonzo]

The only real answer an Apologetic can give to slavery in the Bible is to not concede the point that slavery is inherently immoral. They can say we currently agree not to own slaves, but that to other cultures at other times there was nothing wrong with owning slaves.

[mclordhelmet]

I was hoping the Christian at the end would say "Hmmm, you have a good point and it seems that Rick Santorum needs to be elected so he can try and get the 13th amendment removed" ( ;

[OptimalElement]

Religion itself is slavery... of the mind.

[Cathmoytura]

Well done series. Slavery in the Bible is glossed over by modern Christians. I find it amusing how they often cherry-pick history by modern, secular moral standards to dismiss generations of slave owners from their fold. “They weren’t true Christians.” If true, that means that the Southern Baptist Convention was started by false Christians, yet it’s the largest Protestant denomination in the world. Did the SBC start as false Christians, but true ones later joined?

[DarkMind95]

The only thing I thought I would do when this video ended, was me getting up from my chair and clap...... well, that sounds perfect to me! *claps!*

[NonProphetess]

I can only say thank you for these videos but that does not convey the extent of which I truly feel grateful for them. Just know that.

[mojohound]

First class! Like water wearing down a mountain it is my fervent hope that such publicly available rationality helps strip away the justifications and mechanisms people use to give cover to religion, especially since it seems universal that they don't know what they worship, don't understand what they worship and don't really care what they worship. As you acknowledge, apologists contradict themselves seemingly carelessly, and I assume with the social backing of piousness.

[KrokrX]

Very well presented and argued.

[LZeroK]

This dramatization is lacking something... I know! Some ragequiting from blue.

[billygundum]

Love it,

just wish difference in voice 4 radio

[DavidRodriguezjr]

@billygundum same here I listen, and dont watch much on youtube.

[Zachk2391]

I loved this series, but I think some more of your thoughts on how to evaluate these issues would have really complemented your thorough examination.

I say this because I've seen many people try to "outsource" their thinking about religion. Whether its a Christian parroting apologists or an atheist kid making a post asking how to refute some Christian nonsense, the person is avoiding thinking for him-/herself. It would be easy to just parrot what you've said without understanding half of it.

[makyungsuk]

This series was very well done. Please continue to produce videos of this caliber as they are incredibly important. Toward the end of this video you briefly referenced the instances of genocide, rape and infanticide endorsed in some verses. Do you have any plans to do a similar series on these issues?

[DiscoveringReligion]

@makyungsuk

Thanks a lot! Eventually I hope to make anti-apologies to these other issues, yes.

[mrx00666]

Yeah I really can't stand the dancing religious Apologist do for Christianity and Slavery... Especially when they've used the "Objective morality" BS and how they get Objective morality from the Bible and we poor Atheists and Agnostics etc have nothing... when in reality we have the same morality as everyone else whether Religious people admit it or not. They do to.

[CBTENGR100]

The buybull, It's how christians in the south justified owning slaves.

To all I say, You are more moral than the god you worship.

[cotton9386]

@CBTENGR100 does that mean slave owners in the north had a different justification?? slaves were bought and sold in almost every state. when lincoln freed the slaves, he freed the ones in the confederate states. many a slave was bought from a yankee slaver.

[sexyxrs]

Oo u already got dislike from an angry slaveowner :)