My family and I are atheists and celebrate Christmas. Christmas is probably about Jesus for you and yours. It is secular for us. These atheist organizations do not represent all of us, actually atheists have little in common. I agree with you on the intolerance issue. I am a member of Foxhole Atheists, retired Air Force. One problem is that both sides attack the other. Some atheists are no loving or moral, same as some Christians. Merry Christmas and have a great year in 2011. :)
@matthewtaylorbrown Thank you for posting such a positive comment on this video. The funny thing is that I don't celebrate Christmas. And most of the attacks on this video are from atheists blasting me for doing so. In grad school my favorite classmate and friend was an atheist. He respected me and my beliefs and I did likewise, though we fundamentally disagreed on the God/religion issue.
I wish we all could find common ground instead of picking fights about our differences. Thank you again!
@AtheosRecords I'm not going to give you any more time sir....... Obviously you just want to argue on YouTube. I believe in touching lives in word and in deed. Our church organization celebrate Father Hurley's birthday which is on February 17th. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus the Christ on that day. Have a happy holiday!
@AtheosRecords Did you even watch the video...And if you watched some of my other videos you would KNOW that I don't celebrate Christmas nor am I a Christan. THANK YOU SIR.
@AtheosRecords I hate ignorance. Father Hurley is my great-grandfather first of all. Second I don't celebrate Christmas. This video is two years old so I don't know if I actually say that or not. This video was a response to an article I read about atheists protesting Christmas. Anyway......how about watching the video then reply. THANKS.
We are not falling in any trap, atheists are most of the time very tolerable, however we need to have a harsh tone because of the tons of prejudices and hate groups that attack us and saying that we have no soul or worship the devil. Some few take it too far though, I don't really see the point in attacking christmas, I celebrate the holiday without caring about christ, don't see the problem with that.
Don't... Have morals or values, but Atheism is not based upon ideas of value and morals, it is based upon reality, a hard cold reality. So what these Atheists are doing is smart in an Atheistic sense, but not in a moral sense, by applying Atheist ideas to their cause and not creating bias through morals. Again, it's not a good way to promote Atheism to the public, but promote it in it's own principle, cold, hard reality. Trying to be the least satirical, it seems that you have in a sense...
But... Usually in a sense of the eradication of what we believe to be ignorance, in Religion. And through this cause, celebrations and events of religious types create windows of opportunity for Atheist movements to apply their cause. In short, what these Atheists are doing is not the smartest thing they could be doing in the eyes of the public. Yes, they could be out promoting the morals and values that Atheists have to the public to draw their attention. But, not saying that Atheists don't...
It is a very good point you have here. Atheists should do more good in the public eye. Just as you said, we should be doing more charity and good in the name of Atheism. These actions by militant-atheists sometimes make me embarrassed to call myself one. Though I believe their actions are done in bad taste, I believe they have some justification in their actions. Their cause as you probably know, is not to spite god, because we have all heard the argument on how atheism doesn't hate god, but...
Evidence Atheists are moral... They make up one of the smallest percentages in jail, and they don't have to rely on a 2000 year old book or fear of burning in hell to treat each other right. Do you really need the Bible to know that killing is wrong (even though the Bible condones it on several occasions)? It's called empathy. Just like any other groups not all atheists are good people... but the I feel the prison population shows us who is more capable of upholding their morals.
@boomkablamo That's not evidence that atheists are moral. Our justice system is too skewed to use it as an argument for how good or bad one group is or is not...And just to blow your mind - where do you think the foundation of the US legal system comes from. In the 19th century the Bible was the main textbook for lawyers. Common law is biblical law. Then from that other laws, statues, and torts grew.
@fatherhurley Well then what evidence do you have that Christians or any other Theists are moral? There are far more convicted Christian murderers and child molesters than Atheists, but that is irrelevant. You can't ask Atheists to prove they are moral when no group is capable of doing so, including yours. So you are in fact saying that without the Bible we wouldn't know killing and stealing and rape is wrong? It's called empathy. I know killing is wrong because I don't want to be killed.
@boomkablamo What are you talking about? I'm not trying to prove or disprove that anyone is moral or immoral. You brought all of that up. I don't think I can convience you of anything no matter what "evidence" I present you.
@boomkablamo But your arguments are poor just to let you know. Take some philosophy courses and you'll see that. And in grad school ALL my professors were atheists and they wouldn't agree with you on your moral stance. Just because you don't want to be killed doesn't make killing wrong. There are people in the world don't want to be killed but kill whomever they desire.
@fatherhurley Right and wrong are very relative things. The best way to judge how one should treat another person is through empathy. In MY case, I don't kill because I don't want to be killed. I don't steal because I don't want to be robbed. If I lacked empathy, I wouldn't care how my actions affected other people, and many people today do lack empathy. The concepts of morality are man made concepts, which are relative as well. You don't need a book to know certain things are harmful.
@boomkablamo "You don't need a book to know certain things are harmful." According to analytic (materialistic) philosophy no words have meaning in themselves, only what we give them. Your argument is flat. As I will say for the last time everyone in every group or category of people has good and bad elements.
@fatherhurley Ok. I'll respond to your claim that my argument is flat to your flat claim that our justice system and morality is based on the Bible. The Bible exhibits despicable moral character. The Bible is full of horrible things. It endorses slavery, genocide, and murder. People are trained to think justice has been done because God killed an innocent person for their sins. Is that moral? Is that justice? The Bible's sense of justice borders on insanity.
@boomkablamo I don't disagree that atheist have just as much of a capacity to be moral or immoral as a religious person. God bless you!....Thank you for your comments!
I enjoy the Christmas season even though I believe Jesus Christ is as imaginary as Santa Claus. I don't think people should use the holiday to advance any particular ideology.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? I have a job. In fact I've had a job from 17 to the present. I don't get paid to minister. I also have EARNED secular degrees. Thank you for your comment though. Nice to see a year old vid still getting hits.
I dont believe atheists are attacking the Catholic Church; all theyre doing is educating the masses on the holiday; too many Christians believe that Christ has the monopoly on the Christmas season.
Your response, as many other Christians, is warrantless.
You seem to think that freedom of religion and speech means freedom from advertised dissension of YOUR viewpoints, it doesnt.
All "freedom of religion" means is that your religion won't be made illegal.
I think it's funny that many of you assume I'm a "Christian" for I am not. Also, I don't celebrate Christmas either!
Really the recent comments just show you all are just as bias as you claim religious people are. The point of my video is to say that attacking Christmas serves no purpose.
Now I have no problem with educating people about the origins of Christmas back to the Winter Solace and how the a past Pope had a now defunct historian trace Jesus' birth to Dec 25th which is wrong.
YouTube is tiring. I just made this video last year because the CNN article caught my attention. I really don't care! Few of the people who negatively respond to my videos have their own videos up anyway.
At least I know what I believe and that's enough for me.
i dont have a video up yet either, but man a lot of these people are hungry or just got too much time on their hands. at any rate most are dissatisfied with their lives and are grasping for answers in the only ways they know how. but i've enjoyed your vids i've heard of father hurley but only in passing. i am a little more familiar with the chief black hawk church and a few other groups that have come and some have gone along the way. i do have heap big questions but i will save it for later.
We cant just one day on a whim establish the Atheist Children's Fund, or start sending Atheist missionaries to the Congo. We are not an organized group, we dont have atheist church meetings where we discuss how much we dont believe in stuff. There is no real atheist community, in terms of anything with an organized structure.
Those signs you see professing against religion are the defensive actions of individuals or small groups, defending themselves the only way they can think of.
Atheists already do all the things you suggested here. We just dont put the word 'Atheist' on everything we do like christians do. We dont have the Atheist Children's Fund or anything like that. We dont do that, so we cant respond that way. Our lack of religion doesnt really enter into our actions in day to day life, we dont define ourselves first and foremost as 'atheists', but rather, religion simply does not enter into our thoughts as we go about our business, so we cant do as you suggest.
Unfortunately, I dont think it would. I'm not against charities, but like many atheists, I find a fundamental problem with putting a title on what is otherwise a good deed.
To quote the Daruma Daishi:
" ... You should not have done this to guarantee your passage to Heaven. You fail to understand that your efforts should be selfless, not for some egotistical, personal gain. Your efforts dont show loyalty to Buddha or me, but are self-gratifying to make you look good to other people..."
This is in response to the chinese emperor's words to Daruma Daishi: "I have built many temples all over the land for you. Surely the Buddha is pleased. These acts must certainly guarantee my passage to Keuk Rak (heaven)?"
Do you understand the issue there?
Putting the word Atheist or Christian on a charity is an immoral act. It claims glory and righteousness from what should otherwise be a purely generous, selfless act, turning it into nothing but a cheap, self-gratifying promotion.
It's like handing a starving child a lunch box, then posing for a camera and asking him to hold up the coca cola logo. Yes, in the end, the boy gets a meal, but not out of the goodness of the giver's heart.
So no, there is no "Atheist Children's Fund", and if I have anything to say about it, there never will be. There may yet be a "Children's Fund", but I, for one, will never put the word 'atheist' in front of it.
I will not turn selfless generosity into a billboard to advertise my beliefs.
However, I do support the posting of signs encouraging atheists and discouraging overbearing religious sorts, because frankly, atheists need encouragement.
There is such a stigma associated with the word 'atheist' that most people who ARE atheists dare not claim the title. They dither and delude themselves into thinking they're something that effectively means 'atheist', without actually using that word.
These signs, billboards, and ads show those atheists in hiding that they're not alone.
that's his point.. it is called good PR! meanwhile athiest come across attacking what they dont believe in or like. attack is the action initiated of fear all through out nature. am i right? i am not an athiest but have known a few, some where honestly good people but most were bitter, people hating missionaries.(sorry but that is my experience) brilliant people but from my perspective confused. some even felt burned by religion and dispised all things religious. PR is everything!
Those people had good reason to be bitter, and to despise religion. Atheists have been spat on, shat on, and LITERALLY burned by the religious community for thousands of years. Until the last century, it was more or less an unwritten crime to be an atheist.
Do you have any idea the heartache and headache most Atheists go through trying to separate themselves from the church, only to have the religious community at large try at every single opportunity to force bibles down their throats?
There are far more atheists in the world than you can see, because most of them are in the closet. They dare not reveal their lack of faith for fear of persecution, of being ostracized and isolated. Many of those who HAVE revealed themselves have faced ridicule, have damaged relationships with their loved ones, and lost the trust and respect of their religious friends, all because they refuse to believe in fairy tales.
If you were in that position, would you not be bitter and resentful?
If you actually look OUTSIDE of your religious bubble, and you see from the perspective of one who is NOT like you, you will see that religion is everywhere, and it is aggressive.
The religious seek to enforce authority on everyone. They insult non-believers by telling us we DESERVE to go to hell, a place of eternal and unrelenting torture.
How would you feel if I told you you DESERVED to be tortured and burned for the remainder of eternity?
Religion is a monster, and I hate it passionately.
In fact, do you know what the most frightening thing I can imagine is?
That the teachings of the bible are actually TRUE. Have you read that book? It's EVIL! Slaughter, child sacrifice, rape, slavery, animal sacrifice, war, infanticide, fratricide, genocide, every measure of cruelty, laws that make absolutely no sense, and a jealous and wrathful supreme being who sets impossible standards and then condemns everyone who cant meet them to an eternity of unimaginable suffering!
Well if you study the Bible you will find that not all things are literally true. Also just because something is in the Bible doesn't mean it's a "belief". What I mean is this......the scripture is doctrine, history, allegory, and revelation all wrapped up in one.
Also the idea of eternal damnation is not shared by all who believe in scripture.
maybe not, but it's shared by enough to make it damn insulting.
And dont you DARE try to say atheists are just as guilty as that. Atheists have NEVER waged crusades, or genocides, or inquisitions.
And whatever you might take from the bible, its pretty damn hard to explain this away as "it's not literal.": Numbers 31:17 (Moses) Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.
Psalms 137 8-9 0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
Are you going to tell me THAT is not meant to be taken literally? Please enlighten me, what could possibly be the figurative interpretation of that?
Also, how could there possibly be an atheist church? Do you not understand that atheists are NOT a single cohesive group?
you know jesus said something similar..he admonished not to give alms as a show like the pharisee but give in secret that you heavenly father who is in secret and will reward you openly. know that all alms is far from selfless as the selfless are the ones in need of alms in a world built on the false premise of the strong feeding upon the weak. alms is a *civilizing tool and relieves the guilt of the oppressor for derriving his livilyhood at the expense of the weak. *the aim of religion.
@fatherhurley Well, there was 'The Atheist's Guide to Christmas' this year, all the profits of which go to fighting AIDS, but the reason that there have been less Atheist organisations is because of our seeming inability to organise ourselves, which is also why the Atheist lobby in America is so small compared to, say, the Jewish lobby, and there are far less of the latter.
I would love to teach you about superstitions, imaginary characters, and what they have to do with brainwashing masses of people to make their society go backwards too.
imaginary characters? superstitions? define it. then prove that your brainwashing is any better than anyone else's. what would you present as a unifying science to build a society or do you think anarchism is better? i find that many athiest fall into the trap of foolishness. you assume you know all truth but you deny the very source of truth. you asume that god is what you asume it to be and call your imagination imaginary with out understanding the real nature of things. that is a handicap.
You have to realize religion institutions are unfairly tax exempt. Atheism is simply a position, not an institution or service. If they were to start some community, they would be funded by the state and must abide to certain speech codes and receive no tithes unlike churches who spend their excess on such things as food and shelter and use that as a scapegoat for their charity. Agreed for the most part.
I'm a long time athiest and I hear what you are trying to say.
I completely agree with the positive change.
The problem with this is you will never hear about a group of atheists getting together and doing good for a community simply because atheists, in most cases, do not assemble or meet up.
Atheism is the lack of religion.
People see no need to assemble. They may have nothing in common besides the fact that they are Athiests.
I also like that you took it from both sides of the arguement
But of course you censor your responses, so I dont expect to see any of my posts here. I do hope you will consider them before dismissing them, of course, but I dont hold out hope.
Christians do not want tolerance, equality, or respect for everyone. Just for them. They want everyone to Tolerate and Respect them, but they arent prepared to give any back.
A black man should understand. Atheists are the most hated, most distrusted minority on this continent. Many are afraid to admit it openly.
Ah, well thank you :) It seems my initial assumption was a little bit hasty. usually when you see a video like this with 100 views and no comments, it's because the author censors them heavily. Sorry about that.
Why dont you celebrate christmas, though? I'm an atheist, and I celebrate christmas. It IS the solstice celebration, after all, and besides, it's a convenient date for all the family to get together in what is otherwise a very cold and depressing winter month.
I don't mind do special things on that day. It's just that I don't get caught up in "having" to give gifts on that day, going shop crazy, and so forth. I like the idea of having a peace on earth day. I just wish we could have peace on earth more than one day a year.
Atheists would LOVE to just be able to do our own thing, to go about in our daily lives without having to constantly defend ourselves from religious aggression, but the religious at large are not content to leave well enough alone.
Just look at all the controversy about displaying the ten commandments outside of that court. There was such a furor about removing them. I mean it's a court house, why not display a plaque of Hammurabi's Code of Laws instead?
Throughout many states and provinces, there are billboards and road signs broadcasting all manner of christian messages, especially around this time of year, and nobody thinks anything of it.
However, if atheists put up a sign, IT MAKES THE NEWS!!! One atheist sign is enough to put the entire media world in an uproar, and prompt waves of christian retaliation in the form of signs, protests, and slander campaigns to silence the atheist message.
Alright, now I respect what you're saying, but you seem to be under the wrong impression, here.
Atheists are almost never 'on the offensive', but rather we are defensive. We would love to just live and let live, and celebrate christmas in our own way, but when christians all around us aggressively assert their faith onto OUR celebrations, spouting jesus this and jesus that, objecting to 'certain groups' attempting to disassociate Jesus from Christmas, what choice do we have but to defend?
It would be a lot easier if the religious majority where as reasonable as you o:
Which they're not, friend ;~;
oh, and there is actually a greater number of active secular charities than their are religious charities. but that's as close as your going to get to "atheist". actually calling a charity atheist would be pointless, and counter productive. many people would refuse to donate money for that reason alone, and we're not trying to prove anything. just help.
i agree that the incident was borderline "attacking" religion, but they were trying to stand up for separation of church and state, the nativity scene gave the impression that the state was promoting christianity
one reason atheist groups dont form organizations is lack of, what else, organization, how do you get 10% of the population of america in one place? we are spread too thin
My religious organization meets twice a year on a national scale and we are spread from coast to coast. We are far less than 10% of the population. I don't think there needs to be a "National Atheist Church" but something to build up their image. I don't have a problem with atheists.
I have, however, considered the possibility of founding an atheist unity organization. Unfortunately, since atheism is not a religion, with no doctrines or universal codes, it's not as easy as you might think.
The only thing that unites atheists is the singular fact that they dont believe in any specific god.
Technically many buddhists are atheists.
I have, however, written the atheist bible, a code of laws based in verifiable fact. It is a single line: "Do to others as you would be done to."
All true morality is contained within that single phrase, which is in the bible little more than a passing comment.
Be respectful, and charitable, and kind, for you would be respected, and were you in need you would wish charity and kindness. Do not steal or kill or slander, for you would not be killed, stolen from, or slandered.
While completely relativistic, the law is also completely universal, as all living beings have more or less the same base concerns, regardless of faith.
Truth is in verifiability. You're right, it's not about SAYING it's true, it's about DEMONSTRATING that it's true. So put it to the test. Strain the limits of "Do unto others" and tell me that one of the outcomes is immoral.
As for bhuddists, that's not entirely correct. They believe that there are individuals greater than they, as individuals, are, but that every man has within himself the potential to become such a great individual as well.
SAYING there is a power higher than us is not the same as demonstrating it. Saying, on the other hand, that there is no evidence for such a thing so far as we are aware, and that it would be unreasonable to believe that it existed, firmly and faithfully, without any evidence of its existence whatsoever, is perfectly reasonable and supported by evidence.
Most christians i've met do not believe in Santa Clause, and yet they will in the same breath tell you they believe in an invisible omnibus.
Anyway, my biggest beef here remains the title of your video "Atheists take aim at christmas."
Say whatever else you will about atheism or what have you, but that single sentiment is just grating and aggrevating, because first of all, NO, We're not!
I mean what is there to take aim at in the first place? The word Christ was just stapled to a much older pagan holiday anyway, so what do Christians have to fear from Atheists in that regard? How can we possibly harm the holiday for them?
What do you suggest we might do? Go into peoples homes and tear the bibles from their hands? Forbid people from celebrating their own religious convictions (Whatever they may be) quietly amongst themselves?
Does christmas REALLY need to have its artificial christian overtones enforced over the rest of us? Can we, as non-believers, not simply enjoy the pagan aspects of the season for nothing more than the joy of the experience, without having Jesus this and Jesus that crammed down our throats?
Hebrews are perfectly happy to celebrate Hanuka quietly in the privacy of their own homes, without going door to door preaching about this and that. Atheists are perfectly happy to put up PAGAN christmas trees and hang holly and mistletoe and burn yule logs and wear partyhats and drink and feast and give gifts, all parts of the original pagan spirit.
Why must Christians be the only drama queens of the season, screaming JESUS JESUS JESUS at the tops of their lungs over everyone else's holiday?
Now that sounds like a much more fair and accurate representation of the situation to me.
I say, if you want to celebrate Christ, you go ahead and do it, but you do it at home, where the rest of us dont have to watch you, and where you cant bother us with preaching and proselytizing. You can read all the scripture you like, we wont stop you. Just for the love of god, LEAVE US OUT OF IT FOR ONCE!!!
There's no reason that those of us who DONT believe in invisible sky people should have to put up with this crap. If I go to a freaking public tree lighting ceremony, why should i have to listen to some dusty old book recital from the bronze age telling me I'm not a good person?
I mean what the hell does that even have to do with the tree? Why does it have to be there?
Do you realize that the bible SPECIFICALLY CONDEMNS christmas trees?
Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Yes, this does refer specifically to Idols rather than the christmas tree specifically, but the christmas tree IS an idol. It is an ancient pagan traditional symbol of fertility and the return of summer.
In fact the use of the Fir tree draws its origins specifically from the Romans, who adopted this tree-idol tradition from the Egyptians, who used a Palm.
Christianity was merely tacked onto the holiday later.
This whole notion of ATHEISTS representing some kind of threat to Christmas is very much a case of a man who has stolen something becoming jealous and protective lest someone steal those ill-gotten gains from him.
It's a fantasy, a made-up scandal, and yet Atheists are vilified for it!
Sorry to keep spamming stuff, I'm sure you're getting tired of this, but this kind of thing really does get on my wick!
I am getting sick and tired of having to hear this crap. Fox news is always harping on the "Atheist war on christmas" and everywhere you turn, Christians and Muslims are trying to get holy laws and holy ideals inserted into law and public life in ways that affect EVERYONE, instead of just being happy celebrating and practicing on their own, by themselves, quietly.
So yes, as an Athiest, I do in fact make this decree, a rare statement on behalf of all other atheists who I believe are unanimous in this, at least.
If you wave a bible in front of my face, I WILL smack it out of your hand. I dont force my non-believe down your throat, so get your faith out of my face before I cut it off! If you're happy with it, that's fine, go nuts, do your own thing, but dont you dare bring it to me because I dont freaking want it. Keep the CHRIST out of my Solstice!
My family and I are atheists and celebrate Christmas. Christmas is probably about Jesus for you and yours. It is secular for us. These atheist organizations do not represent all of us, actually atheists have little in common. I agree with you on the intolerance issue. I am a member of Foxhole Atheists, retired Air Force. One problem is that both sides attack the other. Some atheists are no loving or moral, same as some Christians. Merry Christmas and have a great year in 2011. :)
matthewtaylorbrown 1 year ago
@matthewtaylorbrown Thank you for posting such a positive comment on this video. The funny thing is that I don't celebrate Christmas. And most of the attacks on this video are from atheists blasting me for doing so. In grad school my favorite classmate and friend was an atheist. He respected me and my beliefs and I did likewise, though we fundamentally disagreed on the God/religion issue.
I wish we all could find common ground instead of picking fights about our differences. Thank you again!
fatherhurley 1 year ago
@fatherhurley LOL Atheists have very little in common. Actually, we have only one thing in common. :)
matthewtaylorbrown 1 year ago
@AtheosRecords I'm not going to give you any more time sir....... Obviously you just want to argue on YouTube. I believe in touching lives in word and in deed. Our church organization celebrate Father Hurley's birthday which is on February 17th. We don't celebrate the birth of Jesus the Christ on that day. Have a happy holiday!
fatherhurley 1 year ago
@AtheosRecords Did you even watch the video...And if you watched some of my other videos you would KNOW that I don't celebrate Christmas nor am I a Christan. THANK YOU SIR.
fatherhurley 1 year ago
@AtheosRecords I wonder if you even watched my video sir...
fatherhurley 1 year ago
@AtheosRecords I hear you sir...but I don't celebrate the holiday like that.
fatherhurley 1 year ago
@AtheosRecords I don't celebrate Christmas sir...
fatherhurley 1 year ago
@AtheosRecords I hate ignorance. Father Hurley is my great-grandfather first of all. Second I don't celebrate Christmas. This video is two years old so I don't know if I actually say that or not. This video was a response to an article I read about atheists protesting Christmas. Anyway......how about watching the video then reply. THANKS.
fatherhurley 1 year ago
We are not falling in any trap, atheists are most of the time very tolerable, however we need to have a harsh tone because of the tons of prejudices and hate groups that attack us and saying that we have no soul or worship the devil. Some few take it too far though, I don't really see the point in attacking christmas, I celebrate the holiday without caring about christ, don't see the problem with that.
Imhornydadcomeinside 1 year ago
Sense... Given you enemy or attacker an efficient means of attack.
MrDeclanWall 1 year ago
Don't... Have morals or values, but Atheism is not based upon ideas of value and morals, it is based upon reality, a hard cold reality. So what these Atheists are doing is smart in an Atheistic sense, but not in a moral sense, by applying Atheist ideas to their cause and not creating bias through morals. Again, it's not a good way to promote Atheism to the public, but promote it in it's own principle, cold, hard reality. Trying to be the least satirical, it seems that you have in a sense...
MrDeclanWall 1 year ago
But... Usually in a sense of the eradication of what we believe to be ignorance, in Religion. And through this cause, celebrations and events of religious types create windows of opportunity for Atheist movements to apply their cause. In short, what these Atheists are doing is not the smartest thing they could be doing in the eyes of the public. Yes, they could be out promoting the morals and values that Atheists have to the public to draw their attention. But, not saying that Atheists don't...
MrDeclanWall 1 year ago
It is a very good point you have here. Atheists should do more good in the public eye. Just as you said, we should be doing more charity and good in the name of Atheism. These actions by militant-atheists sometimes make me embarrassed to call myself one. Though I believe their actions are done in bad taste, I believe they have some justification in their actions. Their cause as you probably know, is not to spite god, because we have all heard the argument on how atheism doesn't hate god, but...
MrDeclanWall 1 year ago
Evidence Atheists are moral... They make up one of the smallest percentages in jail, and they don't have to rely on a 2000 year old book or fear of burning in hell to treat each other right. Do you really need the Bible to know that killing is wrong (even though the Bible condones it on several occasions)? It's called empathy. Just like any other groups not all atheists are good people... but the I feel the prison population shows us who is more capable of upholding their morals.
boomkablamo 1 year ago
@boomkablamo That's not evidence that atheists are moral. Our justice system is too skewed to use it as an argument for how good or bad one group is or is not...And just to blow your mind - where do you think the foundation of the US legal system comes from. In the 19th century the Bible was the main textbook for lawyers. Common law is biblical law. Then from that other laws, statues, and torts grew.
fatherhurley 1 year ago
@fatherhurley Well then what evidence do you have that Christians or any other Theists are moral? There are far more convicted Christian murderers and child molesters than Atheists, but that is irrelevant. You can't ask Atheists to prove they are moral when no group is capable of doing so, including yours. So you are in fact saying that without the Bible we wouldn't know killing and stealing and rape is wrong? It's called empathy. I know killing is wrong because I don't want to be killed.
boomkablamo 1 year ago
@boomkablamo What are you talking about? I'm not trying to prove or disprove that anyone is moral or immoral. You brought all of that up. I don't think I can convience you of anything no matter what "evidence" I present you.
fatherhurley 1 year ago
@boomkablamo But your arguments are poor just to let you know. Take some philosophy courses and you'll see that. And in grad school ALL my professors were atheists and they wouldn't agree with you on your moral stance. Just because you don't want to be killed doesn't make killing wrong. There are people in the world don't want to be killed but kill whomever they desire.
fatherhurley 1 year ago
@fatherhurley Right and wrong are very relative things. The best way to judge how one should treat another person is through empathy. In MY case, I don't kill because I don't want to be killed. I don't steal because I don't want to be robbed. If I lacked empathy, I wouldn't care how my actions affected other people, and many people today do lack empathy. The concepts of morality are man made concepts, which are relative as well. You don't need a book to know certain things are harmful.
boomkablamo 1 year ago
@boomkablamo "You don't need a book to know certain things are harmful." According to analytic (materialistic) philosophy no words have meaning in themselves, only what we give them. Your argument is flat. As I will say for the last time everyone in every group or category of people has good and bad elements.
fatherhurley 1 year ago
@fatherhurley Ok. I'll respond to your claim that my argument is flat to your flat claim that our justice system and morality is based on the Bible. The Bible exhibits despicable moral character. The Bible is full of horrible things. It endorses slavery, genocide, and murder. People are trained to think justice has been done because God killed an innocent person for their sins. Is that moral? Is that justice? The Bible's sense of justice borders on insanity.
boomkablamo 1 year ago
@boomkablamo I don't disagree that atheist have just as much of a capacity to be moral or immoral as a religious person. God bless you!....Thank you for your comments!
fatherhurley 1 year ago
I enjoy the Christmas season even though I believe Jesus Christ is as imaginary as Santa Claus. I don't think people should use the holiday to advance any particular ideology.
luvdomus 2 years ago
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? I have a job. In fact I've had a job from 17 to the present. I don't get paid to minister. I also have EARNED secular degrees. Thank you for your comment though. Nice to see a year old vid still getting hits.
fatherhurley 2 years ago
Now, on a lighter note, A very sincere Joyeux Noel et Bon Ans Nouveau avec amour du Canada!
Etimos 2 years ago
I dont believe atheists are attacking the Catholic Church; all theyre doing is educating the masses on the holiday; too many Christians believe that Christ has the monopoly on the Christmas season.
Your response, as many other Christians, is warrantless.
You seem to think that freedom of religion and speech means freedom from advertised dissension of YOUR viewpoints, it doesnt.
All "freedom of religion" means is that your religion won't be made illegal.
cyncmaster150 2 years ago
I think it's funny that many of you assume I'm a "Christian" for I am not. Also, I don't celebrate Christmas either!
Really the recent comments just show you all are just as bias as you claim religious people are. The point of my video is to say that attacking Christmas serves no purpose.
Now I have no problem with educating people about the origins of Christmas back to the Winter Solace and how the a past Pope had a now defunct historian trace Jesus' birth to Dec 25th which is wrong.
fatherhurley 2 years ago
Right, and the fact that you don't consider yourself a "Christian" doesn't make my point any less relevant.
My point being; Since when is education and free speech a form of attack?
Displaying a tablet with some factual information on it isn't an attack on Christmas, you only feel attacked.
I suppose that proclaiming what Christmas is, is automatically an attack on what Christmas isn't .
It's pretty rhetorical, the purpose of education is education. It's wrong of you to say it's purposeless.
cyncmaster150 2 years ago
YouTube is tiring. I just made this video last year because the CNN article caught my attention. I really don't care! Few of the people who negatively respond to my videos have their own videos up anyway.
At least I know what I believe and that's enough for me.
fatherhurley 2 years ago
i dont have a video up yet either, but man a lot of these people are hungry or just got too much time on their hands. at any rate most are dissatisfied with their lives and are grasping for answers in the only ways they know how. but i've enjoyed your vids i've heard of father hurley but only in passing. i am a little more familiar with the chief black hawk church and a few other groups that have come and some have gone along the way. i do have heap big questions but i will save it for later.
oldschoolsituationz 2 years ago
We cant just one day on a whim establish the Atheist Children's Fund, or start sending Atheist missionaries to the Congo. We are not an organized group, we dont have atheist church meetings where we discuss how much we dont believe in stuff. There is no real atheist community, in terms of anything with an organized structure.
Those signs you see professing against religion are the defensive actions of individuals or small groups, defending themselves the only way they can think of.
Etimos 2 years ago
Atheists already do all the things you suggested here. We just dont put the word 'Atheist' on everything we do like christians do. We dont have the Atheist Children's Fund or anything like that. We dont do that, so we cant respond that way. Our lack of religion doesnt really enter into our actions in day to day life, we dont define ourselves first and foremost as 'atheists', but rather, religion simply does not enter into our thoughts as we go about our business, so we cant do as you suggest.
Etimos 2 years ago
Fair point. But maybe a "Atheist Children's Fund" would help???
fatherhurley 2 years ago
Unfortunately, I dont think it would. I'm not against charities, but like many atheists, I find a fundamental problem with putting a title on what is otherwise a good deed.
To quote the Daruma Daishi:
" ... You should not have done this to guarantee your passage to Heaven. You fail to understand that your efforts should be selfless, not for some egotistical, personal gain. Your efforts dont show loyalty to Buddha or me, but are self-gratifying to make you look good to other people..."
Etimos 2 years ago
This is in response to the chinese emperor's words to Daruma Daishi: "I have built many temples all over the land for you. Surely the Buddha is pleased. These acts must certainly guarantee my passage to Keuk Rak (heaven)?"
Do you understand the issue there?
Putting the word Atheist or Christian on a charity is an immoral act. It claims glory and righteousness from what should otherwise be a purely generous, selfless act, turning it into nothing but a cheap, self-gratifying promotion.
Etimos 2 years ago
It's like handing a starving child a lunch box, then posing for a camera and asking him to hold up the coca cola logo. Yes, in the end, the boy gets a meal, but not out of the goodness of the giver's heart.
So no, there is no "Atheist Children's Fund", and if I have anything to say about it, there never will be. There may yet be a "Children's Fund", but I, for one, will never put the word 'atheist' in front of it.
I will not turn selfless generosity into a billboard to advertise my beliefs.
Etimos 2 years ago
However, I do support the posting of signs encouraging atheists and discouraging overbearing religious sorts, because frankly, atheists need encouragement.
There is such a stigma associated with the word 'atheist' that most people who ARE atheists dare not claim the title. They dither and delude themselves into thinking they're something that effectively means 'atheist', without actually using that word.
These signs, billboards, and ads show those atheists in hiding that they're not alone.
Etimos 2 years ago
that's his point.. it is called good PR! meanwhile athiest come across attacking what they dont believe in or like. attack is the action initiated of fear all through out nature. am i right? i am not an athiest but have known a few, some where honestly good people but most were bitter, people hating missionaries.(sorry but that is my experience) brilliant people but from my perspective confused. some even felt burned by religion and dispised all things religious. PR is everything!
oldschoolsituationz 2 years ago
Those people had good reason to be bitter, and to despise religion. Atheists have been spat on, shat on, and LITERALLY burned by the religious community for thousands of years. Until the last century, it was more or less an unwritten crime to be an atheist.
Do you have any idea the heartache and headache most Atheists go through trying to separate themselves from the church, only to have the religious community at large try at every single opportunity to force bibles down their throats?
Etimos 2 years ago
There are far more atheists in the world than you can see, because most of them are in the closet. They dare not reveal their lack of faith for fear of persecution, of being ostracized and isolated. Many of those who HAVE revealed themselves have faced ridicule, have damaged relationships with their loved ones, and lost the trust and respect of their religious friends, all because they refuse to believe in fairy tales.
If you were in that position, would you not be bitter and resentful?
Etimos 2 years ago
If you actually look OUTSIDE of your religious bubble, and you see from the perspective of one who is NOT like you, you will see that religion is everywhere, and it is aggressive.
The religious seek to enforce authority on everyone. They insult non-believers by telling us we DESERVE to go to hell, a place of eternal and unrelenting torture.
How would you feel if I told you you DESERVED to be tortured and burned for the remainder of eternity?
Religion is a monster, and I hate it passionately.
Etimos 2 years ago
I don't believe in a literally burning hell. As I have said before Etimos YOU ALL are just as guilty of assumptions and presuppositions.........
fatherhurley 2 years ago
In fact, do you know what the most frightening thing I can imagine is?
That the teachings of the bible are actually TRUE. Have you read that book? It's EVIL! Slaughter, child sacrifice, rape, slavery, animal sacrifice, war, infanticide, fratricide, genocide, every measure of cruelty, laws that make absolutely no sense, and a jealous and wrathful supreme being who sets impossible standards and then condemns everyone who cant meet them to an eternity of unimaginable suffering!
Thank god it's fake!
Etimos 2 years ago
Well if you study the Bible you will find that not all things are literally true. Also just because something is in the Bible doesn't mean it's a "belief". What I mean is this......the scripture is doctrine, history, allegory, and revelation all wrapped up in one.
Also the idea of eternal damnation is not shared by all who believe in scripture.
fatherhurley 2 years ago
maybe not, but it's shared by enough to make it damn insulting.
And dont you DARE try to say atheists are just as guilty as that. Atheists have NEVER waged crusades, or genocides, or inquisitions.
And whatever you might take from the bible, its pretty damn hard to explain this away as "it's not literal.": Numbers 31:17 (Moses) Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.
Etimos 2 years ago
Psalms 137 8-9 0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
Are you going to tell me THAT is not meant to be taken literally? Please enlighten me, what could possibly be the figurative interpretation of that?
Also, how could there possibly be an atheist church? Do you not understand that atheists are NOT a single cohesive group?
Etimos 2 years ago
you know jesus said something similar..he admonished not to give alms as a show like the pharisee but give in secret that you heavenly father who is in secret and will reward you openly. know that all alms is far from selfless as the selfless are the ones in need of alms in a world built on the false premise of the strong feeding upon the weak. alms is a *civilizing tool and relieves the guilt of the oppressor for derriving his livilyhood at the expense of the weak. *the aim of religion.
oldschoolsituationz 2 years ago
@fatherhurley Well, there was 'The Atheist's Guide to Christmas' this year, all the profits of which go to fighting AIDS, but the reason that there have been less Atheist organisations is because of our seeming inability to organise ourselves, which is also why the Atheist lobby in America is so small compared to, say, the Jewish lobby, and there are far less of the latter.
vandbg 2 years ago
Woudn't this be an aim at athiests?
ksly1111 2 years ago
Actually no. My point was attacking Christmas serves no purpose. As I stated in a comment below I don't celebrate Christmas myself.
Just because I wear a collar doesn't mean I have to fall into the so-called "Christian" camp.
See my other videos and you'll see what I mean.
fatherhurley 2 years ago
Thank you...God bless!
b111791 2 years ago
ok i didn't really watch the video for the first comment but there are atheist volunteer associations.
JakeBartlam 2 years ago
I don't think I denied that point but I could have. And in the future why not watch a video before commenting. Thanks.
fatherhurley 2 years ago
you were asking directly about atheist volunteer organizations. Google it, theres your answer to your "ideas" starting at 3:25
JakeBartlam 2 years ago
Thank you for teaching me how to use the Internet.
fatherhurley 2 years ago
I would love to teach you about superstitions, imaginary characters, and what they have to do with brainwashing masses of people to make their society go backwards too.
JakeBartlam 2 years ago
imaginary characters? superstitions? define it. then prove that your brainwashing is any better than anyone else's. what would you present as a unifying science to build a society or do you think anarchism is better? i find that many athiest fall into the trap of foolishness. you assume you know all truth but you deny the very source of truth. you asume that god is what you asume it to be and call your imagination imaginary with out understanding the real nature of things. that is a handicap.
oldschoolsituationz 2 years ago
people were celebrating christmas before christianity started
JakeBartlam 2 years ago
Good point... December 25th is the Winter Solace celebrating the birth of the S-U-N but the S-O-N.
fatherhurley 2 years ago
You have to realize religion institutions are unfairly tax exempt. Atheism is simply a position, not an institution or service. If they were to start some community, they would be funded by the state and must abide to certain speech codes and receive no tithes unlike churches who spend their excess on such things as food and shelter and use that as a scapegoat for their charity. Agreed for the most part.
Synopsism 2 years ago
I'm an atheist.
I hate religion in any and all forms.
But you're right. 5 stars.
Haxxploits 2 years ago
" However, only offering attacks will not help atheists appear loving and moral which is the main attack against them."
An argument that would no negate the simple fact that there is no god.
Roushfan5 2 years ago
I like that you are trying to unite people instead of preaching to people about christianity
I think atheist and theist should be more excepting of one another
Gills3339 2 years ago
THANK YOU Gills3339!!!! I think most of the commenters on this vid lost that point. Peace & Love.
fatherhurley 2 years ago
I'm Agnostric, and I totally agree with that description.
BUT, it seems you are generalizing people.
Only the stupids are ''attacking'' others, celebrations, history, and etc.
Us, the intelligent one, just don't care.
It's the time for us to get together and enjoy a good night with the family and friends.
AstralJokers 2 years ago
I'm a long time athiest and I hear what you are trying to say.
I completely agree with the positive change.
The problem with this is you will never hear about a group of atheists getting together and doing good for a community simply because atheists, in most cases, do not assemble or meet up.
Atheism is the lack of religion.
People see no need to assemble. They may have nothing in common besides the fact that they are Athiests.
I also like that you took it from both sides of the arguement
joe5450 2 years ago
But of course you censor your responses, so I dont expect to see any of my posts here. I do hope you will consider them before dismissing them, of course, but I dont hold out hope.
Christians do not want tolerance, equality, or respect for everyone. Just for them. They want everyone to Tolerate and Respect them, but they arent prepared to give any back.
A black man should understand. Atheists are the most hated, most distrusted minority on this continent. Many are afraid to admit it openly.
Etimos 2 years ago
Well your comment made my page....
And I don't claim the label Christian, though I believe in the scriptures.
Nor do I celebrate Christmas. Just thought you should know...
fatherhurley 2 years ago
Ah, well thank you :) It seems my initial assumption was a little bit hasty. usually when you see a video like this with 100 views and no comments, it's because the author censors them heavily. Sorry about that.
Why dont you celebrate christmas, though? I'm an atheist, and I celebrate christmas. It IS the solstice celebration, after all, and besides, it's a convenient date for all the family to get together in what is otherwise a very cold and depressing winter month.
Etimos 2 years ago
I don't mind do special things on that day. It's just that I don't get caught up in "having" to give gifts on that day, going shop crazy, and so forth. I like the idea of having a peace on earth day. I just wish we could have peace on earth more than one day a year.
fatherhurley 2 years ago
Atheists would LOVE to just be able to do our own thing, to go about in our daily lives without having to constantly defend ourselves from religious aggression, but the religious at large are not content to leave well enough alone.
Just look at all the controversy about displaying the ten commandments outside of that court. There was such a furor about removing them. I mean it's a court house, why not display a plaque of Hammurabi's Code of Laws instead?
Etimos 2 years ago
I mean look at it this way;
Throughout many states and provinces, there are billboards and road signs broadcasting all manner of christian messages, especially around this time of year, and nobody thinks anything of it.
However, if atheists put up a sign, IT MAKES THE NEWS!!! One atheist sign is enough to put the entire media world in an uproar, and prompt waves of christian retaliation in the form of signs, protests, and slander campaigns to silence the atheist message.
Etimos 2 years ago
Alright, now I respect what you're saying, but you seem to be under the wrong impression, here.
Atheists are almost never 'on the offensive', but rather we are defensive. We would love to just live and let live, and celebrate christmas in our own way, but when christians all around us aggressively assert their faith onto OUR celebrations, spouting jesus this and jesus that, objecting to 'certain groups' attempting to disassociate Jesus from Christmas, what choice do we have but to defend?
Etimos 2 years ago
It would be a lot easier if the religious majority where as reasonable as you o:
Which they're not, friend ;~;
oh, and there is actually a greater number of active secular charities than their are religious charities. but that's as close as your going to get to "atheist". actually calling a charity atheist would be pointless, and counter productive. many people would refuse to donate money for that reason alone, and we're not trying to prove anything. just help.
XcaptainXobliviousX 2 years ago
Fair representation of both sides, excellent argument. 5/5
SlamminTheKeys 2 years ago
a year late but better late than never,
i agree that the incident was borderline "attacking" religion, but they were trying to stand up for separation of church and state, the nativity scene gave the impression that the state was promoting christianity
one reason atheist groups dont form organizations is lack of, what else, organization, how do you get 10% of the population of america in one place? we are spread too thin
the christian community has more orginazation.
ProgramG 2 years ago
My religious organization meets twice a year on a national scale and we are spread from coast to coast. We are far less than 10% of the population. I don't think there needs to be a "National Atheist Church" but something to build up their image. I don't have a problem with atheists.
fatherhurley 2 years ago
I have, however, considered the possibility of founding an atheist unity organization. Unfortunately, since atheism is not a religion, with no doctrines or universal codes, it's not as easy as you might think.
The only thing that unites atheists is the singular fact that they dont believe in any specific god.
Technically many buddhists are atheists.
I have, however, written the atheist bible, a code of laws based in verifiable fact. It is a single line: "Do to others as you would be done to."
Etimos 2 years ago
All true morality is contained within that single phrase, which is in the bible little more than a passing comment.
Be respectful, and charitable, and kind, for you would be respected, and were you in need you would wish charity and kindness. Do not steal or kill or slander, for you would not be killed, stolen from, or slandered.
While completely relativistic, the law is also completely universal, as all living beings have more or less the same base concerns, regardless of faith.
Etimos 2 years ago
But what makes it true? Just because we say something is true doesn't make it true. That goes for the atheist and the thesit.
fatherhurley 2 years ago
Truth is in verifiability. You're right, it's not about SAYING it's true, it's about DEMONSTRATING that it's true. So put it to the test. Strain the limits of "Do unto others" and tell me that one of the outcomes is immoral.
As for bhuddists, that's not entirely correct. They believe that there are individuals greater than they, as individuals, are, but that every man has within himself the potential to become such a great individual as well.
Etimos 2 years ago
SAYING there is a power higher than us is not the same as demonstrating it. Saying, on the other hand, that there is no evidence for such a thing so far as we are aware, and that it would be unreasonable to believe that it existed, firmly and faithfully, without any evidence of its existence whatsoever, is perfectly reasonable and supported by evidence.
Most christians i've met do not believe in Santa Clause, and yet they will in the same breath tell you they believe in an invisible omnibus.
Etimos 2 years ago
Anyway, my biggest beef here remains the title of your video "Atheists take aim at christmas."
Say whatever else you will about atheism or what have you, but that single sentiment is just grating and aggrevating, because first of all, NO, We're not!
I mean what is there to take aim at in the first place? The word Christ was just stapled to a much older pagan holiday anyway, so what do Christians have to fear from Atheists in that regard? How can we possibly harm the holiday for them?
Etimos 2 years ago
What do you suggest we might do? Go into peoples homes and tear the bibles from their hands? Forbid people from celebrating their own religious convictions (Whatever they may be) quietly amongst themselves?
Does christmas REALLY need to have its artificial christian overtones enforced over the rest of us? Can we, as non-believers, not simply enjoy the pagan aspects of the season for nothing more than the joy of the experience, without having Jesus this and Jesus that crammed down our throats?
Etimos 2 years ago
Hebrews are perfectly happy to celebrate Hanuka quietly in the privacy of their own homes, without going door to door preaching about this and that. Atheists are perfectly happy to put up PAGAN christmas trees and hang holly and mistletoe and burn yule logs and wear partyhats and drink and feast and give gifts, all parts of the original pagan spirit.
Why must Christians be the only drama queens of the season, screaming JESUS JESUS JESUS at the tops of their lungs over everyone else's holiday?
Etimos 2 years ago
How about THIS for a video title?:
Christians take aim at Winter Solstice.
Now that sounds like a much more fair and accurate representation of the situation to me.
I say, if you want to celebrate Christ, you go ahead and do it, but you do it at home, where the rest of us dont have to watch you, and where you cant bother us with preaching and proselytizing. You can read all the scripture you like, we wont stop you. Just for the love of god, LEAVE US OUT OF IT FOR ONCE!!!
Etimos 2 years ago
There's no reason that those of us who DONT believe in invisible sky people should have to put up with this crap. If I go to a freaking public tree lighting ceremony, why should i have to listen to some dusty old book recital from the bronze age telling me I'm not a good person?
I mean what the hell does that even have to do with the tree? Why does it have to be there?
Do you realize that the bible SPECIFICALLY CONDEMNS christmas trees?
Jeremiah 10, 1-10:
Etimos 2 years ago
Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Yes, this does refer specifically to Idols rather than the christmas tree specifically, but the christmas tree IS an idol. It is an ancient pagan traditional symbol of fertility and the return of summer.
Etimos 2 years ago
In fact the use of the Fir tree draws its origins specifically from the Romans, who adopted this tree-idol tradition from the Egyptians, who used a Palm.
Christianity was merely tacked onto the holiday later.
This whole notion of ATHEISTS representing some kind of threat to Christmas is very much a case of a man who has stolen something becoming jealous and protective lest someone steal those ill-gotten gains from him.
It's a fantasy, a made-up scandal, and yet Atheists are vilified for it!
Etimos 2 years ago
Sorry to keep spamming stuff, I'm sure you're getting tired of this, but this kind of thing really does get on my wick!
I am getting sick and tired of having to hear this crap. Fox news is always harping on the "Atheist war on christmas" and everywhere you turn, Christians and Muslims are trying to get holy laws and holy ideals inserted into law and public life in ways that affect EVERYONE, instead of just being happy celebrating and practicing on their own, by themselves, quietly.
Etimos 2 years ago
So yes, as an Athiest, I do in fact make this decree, a rare statement on behalf of all other atheists who I believe are unanimous in this, at least.
If you wave a bible in front of my face, I WILL smack it out of your hand. I dont force my non-believe down your throat, so get your faith out of my face before I cut it off! If you're happy with it, that's fine, go nuts, do your own thing, but dont you dare bring it to me because I dont freaking want it. Keep the CHRIST out of my Solstice!
Etimos 2 years ago
But the buddhists who are atheists do believe in a force or energy higher than ourselves.........
fatherhurley 2 years ago
@fatherhurley Not a church,but a "National Atheist ..." is needed.
EverybodyHatesThat 1 year ago