Jordan was the greatest shotblocker of any SG in history. He was also the greatest ball thief of any SG in history. And the greatest scorer of any SG in history. Three of the reasons why he was the GOAT.
@kantwu you sir, are a ignorant faggot who knows nothing and is making a complete and utter disgrace of yourself on YouTube. That is all. Oh and Jordan - Bird, any day and everyday.
yeah I remember that game,young rookie jordan dropped 63 on bird parish mchale walton's face,and then bird was saying "Today it is the day the God controlled Jordan playing against us" lol
MICHAEL is a very powerful name that comes from the Hebrew: מִיכָאֵל / מיכאל (Mikha'el), "who is like ( El )", meaning "Who is like God?" - no wonder why some of the best people in the world were named Michael. Michael Jordan, Michael Jackson, Michael Schumacher, Michael Angelo, ... even the Archangel that slay the devil is Michael.. if you want to have a son someday name him "MICHAEL"; surely another chapter of Greatness will be fulfilled.
The NBA had a salary cap in the mid-40s, but was abolished after only one season. The League continued to play without such a cap until 84-85, when the current incarnation of the salary cap was instituted in an attempt to level the playing field among all of the NBA teams. Before the cap was reinstated, teams could spend whatever amount of money they wanted on players, but in the first season under the new cap, they were each limited to $3.6m in total payroll.
these clips just show how unready the league was for jordan i mean not to mention his domination of oponents but not even anyone on his own team anticipated the block or the diving save,
then the ref give the celtic get a new 24 WTF is that
You're over here ragging on Jordan who won 6 rings as if that wasn't impressive at all. - Isn't it even less impressive to have been Olajuwon, or Ewing, Malone, Robinson, Barkley, Shaq, Richmond, etc... : stas who combined won far fewer rings in that same time period? How can you claim an era to be weak, then choose to rag on the one player who was actually impressive and stood out with his success? If anything you should be clowing every other star in the 90s first before talking about Jordan.
I agree with you that there were generally fewer 'very good' teams in the 90's as the 80's; however for you to knock on Jordan being ultra successful (without saying anything towards the plethora of stars and superstars who rarely won or didn't win at all shows bias).
"there were generally fewer 'very good' teams in the 90's as the 80's"
Oh really? 1996-97, 10 of 29 teams won 52+ games (34.5%), the highest % in league history. Need I remind U that MJ & the Bulls beat "7" 60+ win teams in rout to their titles.
Shaq & kobe's, as well as Magic's Lakers only beat 1..Isiah's pistons didn't beat any 60+ win teams & the best team Bird's Celtics ever beat were the '84 Lakers, his other 2 titles came against 2 suspect Rocket teams, 1 of which had a sub .500 record.
and just in case U guys try to pull the old "expansion" card, need I ALSO remind y'all of what year(s) the Hornets, T-Wolves, Magic & Heat came into the league?
If y'all are gonna try to taint the 90's & Chicago's Titles with that, what about the Lakers & Pistons, who combined to win in the late 80's & early of '90, right after those 4 franchises came into existence?
Did this "water down" the late 80's, going into 1990 for the lakers & pistons?
Too many people like to try & attribute the "greatness" of L.A. & Boston to the ENTIRE early 80's, when that's certainly not the case. I LOVED the early 80's NBA, but If U only have 2 teams facing each other in the finals on a regular basis, what does that say about the rest of the league?
Aside from the Lakers, Celtics, and maybe the 76ers, everyone else was middle of the pack. The comp didn't start to pick up until the mid & late 80's..
@blackadam06 Yeah, your numbers look good until you factor in the shitty teams MJ played against. Larry Bird all the way, Bird schooled Jordan like a slave owner whipping his slave.
Go look at all the "shitty teams" Magic & Bird beat in the 80s in route to titles. I grew up in the 80s & saw that era. U idiots act like the NBA was just full of 50 & 60+ win teams galore at that time, when it wasn't.
"Bird schooled Jordan"
80s MJ scoring avg vs BOS
Reg Season: 34.8ppg
Playoffs: 39.7ppg
"Early on people said Michael didn't have a [team] mentality. Well, that's because he [didn't have] a team."
-- Larry Bird: "When The Game Was Ours"; by Jackie Macmullan, 2009
@blackadam06 Tough cause he still got swept twice by the Celtics and couldn't win a ring for his life until the Legend retired. Bird schooled Jordan? I think so.
Well since U wanna play the semantics game, Bird only won 1 title after MJ came into the league. Starting in MJ's rookie year until Bird retired in '92, he only won 1 title & MJ won 2.
Only a moron tries to imply that 1 guy "schooled" another, because the success of his team vs the other guy's team. How silly is that?
U act like they were out there playing 1 on 1 or something..SMH
@blackadam06 Well since you want to be an idiot, Bird killed his back in 88. The years after he was never the same, go watch a documentary and stop Googling numbers idiot. While everyone wished Bird a happy life after retiring in their bid-farewell speech, MJ openly expressed he was happy and that the Legend ruined plenty of his "successful" games/playoffs. Oh wait, you're ignorant, what does it matter what unedited filmed footage says, you <3 numbers.
I don't need a documentary kid. I grew up watching Bird play & KNOW how his career unfolded.
"Knowing he'd [witnessed] the next marquee star, Bird felt [even more] urgency to seize another title while the Celtics were young & healthy. MJ didn't yet [have the complementary pieces] he [needed] to [contend] for a [championship], but it was [clear to Bird] that it was only a [matter of time] before he would."
-- Jackie Macmullan: "When The Game Was Ours", 2009
"I think that Michael, with what he's [done] in the game that he was introduced to and learned to play as a kid, has taken that and has gone [as far] as you can. I don't think [anyone] can [play] this game [any better] than he played."
-- Bill Russell: "The Jordan Phenomenon"; pbs . org online newshour
@blackadam06 "I think that Larry Bird has a bigger game, bigger balls, and a bigger dick than me." -- Michael Jordan: "The Bird Phenomenon"; pbs . org online newshour nything you can do, I can do better. I can do anything Better than you. No, you can't. Yes, I can. No, you can't. Yes, I can. No, you can't. Yes, I can, Yes, I can! Anything you can be I can be greater. Sooner or later, I'm greater than you.
Now that's what U call a "weak ass response"...SMH
When U have to make shit up because U don't have a FACTUAL rebuttal to refute what the other guy said, that's when U KNOW you've been UTTERLY outclassed on the subject LOL!!
"That was God disguised as Michael Jordan."
-- Larry Bird, after MJ set the NBA playoff record for most points in a game against BOS
anyoen who says that take a look at the 86 Celtics v these Bulls. the games were decently close for 1st round games. they could not guard Jordan then with an incomplete game and shit supporting cast. How would that team deal with a complete Jordan lets say 92' and a very good supporting cast?
big difference when your 2nd best player is an all star scottie pippen compared to orlando woolridge
yeh thats most probably true, but that doesn mean it got worse. it just changed.. i mean just look how athletic the players are these days.. no way itll be ever again like this
teammates confidence, and helped, or at least allowed them to develop their talents to levels they wouldn't have gotten to otherwise (as great as Pippen was, I don't think he would've become NEAR the player he did had he not played alongside Jordan). When he retired, it wasn't like Larry Bird being injured - the bulls KNEW he wasn't coming back, and practiced accordingly. By then they had a system in place where they could still be successful (but not win a title).
DAMN!!! That IS pretty impressive!! I wonder if any other player can say they they blocked Parish, McHale, and Walton all in the same game! Kareem, maybe?
Personally, my opinion, and it's just my opinion, is that the Bulls were able to reach game 7 of the 2nd round without MJ because he, along with Phil Jackson, had turned them into a team of winners, even in his absence. Remember, one of the great things about Jordan was that he made other players better. I really believe that he gave his
no, lebron has perfected the fast break chase down block. that is his patented defensive move that he has really made his own this season. he is not a great help defender like jordan here; jordan was notorious for helping on the man in the post and blocking him when he spun! that is different form what LBJ does. also, MJ led the league in steals and is 3rd all time due to his incredible instincts on the weak side to anticipate the passing lanes and steal for fast break dunks!
ya at this point, lebron is no where near the the lock down defender jordan was. Lebron is faster than jordan line to line, but Jordan is 2 times quicker. Look at tapes of Jordans first step im sure you know but he never needed a crossover really. Bron has really inproved his defense but not near jordan's level forget it.
I agree with everything you said except for LeBron being faster than Jordan line for line. He is a unique specimen/super athlete being 6'8 270. He will only improve, but MJ's defense was otherworldly...
Lebron's help defense is on par with Jordans, but one-on-one i just don't see him getting there.
And I don't even think Lebron is faster line to line, he's just bigger and stronger so he doesn't have to work around people, he just has to go through people. Not a knock on Lebron, its just a different style of play and it works. The argument for Lebron vs. MJ (MJ is better) is similar to the argument for Shaq vs. Hakeem.
@PhanatixDDH I would say the Shaq vs. Hakeem would be a better argument because, for the most part, they played in the same era (though they did peek at different times) mostly under the same rules. Of course Lebron can go through people these days with the league's cream puff joke defense they allow the defenders to play!
"When he [enrolled] at Chapel Hill, Jordan ran the 40-yard dash in [4.6 seconds]. This fall, he ran a [4.3]."
-- Dean Smith, Sports Illustrated, Nov 28, 1983
During his PRIME years in the NBA, MJ CONSISTENTLY ran a 4.2 - 4.3 in the 40. Now PLEASE show me where Lebron has done this at ANY point in his career..
Sorry, I meant to say Michael's teammates weren't as great on the OFFENSIVE end. Just about all of them were excellent defenders and could probably match up well against a lot of 80s players.
Also, in 1990, McHale, Parish and Lewis missed a grand total of six games and posted solid numbers, plus DJ was still an effective passer despite his age.
I agree Bulls dominated their era more so than any 80s team. I agree the Bulls are the better dynasty over any 80s team. However, comparing the teams head to head, 80s teams were superior
DJ vs Paxson-Kerr.....DJ better
Ainge vs Jordan.........Jordan better
Parish vs Cart.............Parish better
McHale vs Grant........McHale better
Bird vs Pippen...........Bird better
McHale vs Rodman....McHale better
Bench....Celtics
Boston wins every position except SG. Do you see my point?
Also, look at what happened to the Bulls after Michael retired a second time. They went from being a championship team to as bad as the Clippers overnight.
None of the Bulls' opponents in the Finals were as weak as the 1981 Rockets.
This may be true but none of the Bulls opponents in the Finals were as good as the early 80s Sixers teams. Boston was beating some very talented 76ers teams along with the Bucks and Pistons. When they did lose a Championship, they lost to one of the best teams in history. In 85 Bird was hurt in the Finals and it really affected his game. I agree the Bulls were great, but many MJ fans can't see reality.
"This may be true but none of the Bulls opponents in the Finals were as good as the early 80s Sixers teams."
Eh, I don't know, the 93 Suns were pretty good, and so were the 96 Sonics. Also, I don't think measuring their greatness by how many HOF players they have is accurate, since some of the main contributors on those Bulls teams aren't even eligible for the HOF yet. Also, I'd say they had at least three. Rodman was pretty damn good and deserves recognition.
@BigTimePride So because the Bulls didn't beat the pistons or the knicks in the NBA Finals that mean they faced no great teams? So does sweeping the two-time defending NBA champs count for anything? And that 80's sixers team was about as flawed as the cavaliers have been the last two years. Its a reason they won 62 games and lost that was before moses malone was on the team. So lets compare Celtics beat sixer team that couldn't get over the hump and the Bulls beat a 2 time champion
Reality is...The 90s Bulls dominated their era and only Russell's Celtics compare or surpass. However, reality is....head to head, comparing man to man, the 80s teams had a roster full of HOF players while the 90s Bulls had two. This is no knock to MJ or the Bulls, but I get irritated when fans say the Bulls were a better team. Nonsense.
"However, reality is....head to head, comparing man to man, the 80s teams had a roster full of HOF players while the 90s Bulls had two. "
So the Bulls are inferior to the 80s teams because they have fewer HOFers than the others combined? By my count, Boston had exactly one more HOF player than Chicago, while L.A. and Detroit each had three.
Plus, don't forget how good Indiana, Seattle, New York, Orlando and Utah were in the 90s.
Plus, don't forget how good Indiana, Seattle, New York, Orlando and Utah were in the 90s.
And how many of these teams won rings during MJs first retirement? And how far did the Bulls make it without MJ during his 1st retirement? Bulls advanced to game 7 of 2nd round and should've won if not for a blown call. Were the Bulls that good without MJ, or was MJ not as great as everything thinks? Neither, it was a weak era due to expansion and free agency. Look at Boston when Bird retired.
It's strange, what do you mean MJ is not as great as people think?
How the hell you know what people think?
You don't know, in fact, you just don't know what people feel about MJ. Some people just love MJ, and MJ does win and breaks many record.
You really don't have right to tell people what should they think about MJ, you know that? You just make horrible mistake in the very beginning, you try to convince people out there. And why? It won't change the world even you did it
I was merely giving my own opinion. Like every other fan, I have a right to my opinion. Look at the facts. When Jordan retired the Bulls only lost 2 games without him & nearly advanced to the Finals without him. When he returned, Orlanda beat the Bulls in the playoffs. Jordan had a crucial turnover.
Jordan didn't win anything until Bird & Magic faded. Jordan didn't win anything until expansion and free agency weakened the league.
Once again, when the Bulls played the Lakers in the Finals, Jabbar was gone, Cooper gone, Riley gone, Green gone...Both Worthy and Scott injured in game 3 and never returned the rest of the series. Come on man, they were not the same Lakers as the Showtime 80s.
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You guys always bring up MJ big games against the Celtics. Let me refresh your memory. After MJ scored 63 in game 2 in Boston....2 days later in game 3 in CHICAGO, MJ was held to 19 points and the Celtics crushed them on their homecourt for the sweep.
Since U seem to know everything why don`t U tell me why He only scored 19 points in game 3 ? And while we at it can U tell me why was He able to post up 49 and 63 at the Garden ?
Going in to that series Boston knew MJ was a great scorer. Boston was also smart enough to know that one man cannot beat a great team. So they left MJ shoot, didn't double, didn't trap etc...After seeing MJ had a hot hand, they made some adjustments for game 3 and it worked = no more close games. Boston crushed them in Chicago.
I never said MJ wasn't a grea player bc he certainly was. I am saying that the 80s was a stronger era with better teams than the 90s Bulls. Expansion = weakness.
You are describing Game 1 my friend, adjustments came in Game 2 after Boston REALIZED what They were up against and in Game 2 They doubled,trippled and trapped.
Regarding Game 3 Jordan was on the bench for long periods of time cause He was in foul-trouble. If U have that game U will see those fantom calls. It was ridiculous...
@BigTimePride When Jordan hit his prime, and Pippen hit his prime, they weren't going to be beat! Add Rodman in there for rebounds and great defense, and you have the best basketball team of all time! 1995-1996 Bulls. I would put the 1996 Bulls against your 86 Celtics any day of the week! Rodman would fuck with McHale all night long! Jordan would have killed Ainge. Pippen would cause alot of problems for Larry Bird. I'll give Bird the edge, but just barely.
@thewolfmanchu You idiot Pippen wouldn't give Bird a hard time. I watched Bird smoke Pippen on more than one occasion & Bird was past his prime. Rodman said McHale was a nightmare to guard. Robert Parish who finished his career with the Bulls was asked who would win 86 Celtics or 96 Bulls and Parish said "no comparison the Celtics would beat them".
I'm sorry, but Pippen during the early 90's was NOT the same Pippen from 1994 onward. If you watch both of them, but Pippen from 94 since he had to lead changed his mentality and play.
Parish would say 86 would beat 96, it's Parish no duh much like Pip saying 96>All. I remember one interview Riley stated "No Team can ever beat a Jordan Led Bulls" coming from a guy who did what with the 80's lakers?
Defensively 96 Bulls were Better, imo 96Bulss>87 Lkrs>86 Clts
@TrueSephiros The Bulls had to use Pippen to defend Magic Johnson in the 90-91 Finals b/c Jordan couldn't slow Magic down in game one as LA beat the Bulls in Chicago. So already Pippen was a better defender than Jordan from 1990 onward. That same season the Celtics started of 29-5 before Bird got hurt. Keep in mind Bird was playing with scrub players that year. Point being I watched Bird smoke Pippen that year in the garden & Bird was way past his prime already. So no Pippen couldn't slow Bird.
@BigTimePride Get your facts straight they switched Pippen on Magic so he could bother magic full court and cause them to be slower getting into their sets, plus Pippen getting in foul trouble was less of a blow than Jordan getting in to foul trouble because Jordan was the entire offense, not only did Jordan lead in scoring he also avg 11 assists.With Pippen guarding magic his numbers were virtually the same as when Jordan did. So the move was ONLY about conserving energy not who defended better
@sbwan Bottom line...LA lost game one in Chicago with Jordan on Magic while Magic picked the Bulls apart. Why is it so hard for MJ fans to admit Pippen was a better defender?
@BigTimePride Am I am a Bulls fan not just an MJ fan. You just take certain facts while leaving out others to try and twist them to suit your point of view. The Bulls lost game one on a Sam Perkins three pointer not because Magic went off. Magic had 20 assists in game 5 with Pippen guarding him and they still lost. The fact is if it wasn't for that Sam Perkins three the Lakers prob would have gotten swept the same way the Pistons did in the previous round.
@sbwan There was also an OT game in that Finals. Fact is LA took game 1 in Chicago but the Bulls went on to win the next 4. However, as the Bulls were leading the series 2-1 (pip on magic) the Lakers lost both Worthy & Scott to injuries early in game 4 and they didn't return rest of the series. I'm not saying this prevent the Bulls from winning the title but I find it hard to believe the 90 Bulls would stand much of a chance with the 80s Lakers considering their hands were full with this LA team
@BigTimePride OMG this Laker team beat a 63 win Trailblazers team, this same team won 60+ games the year before. You just refuse to give The Bulls any credit, you say something then you immediately comeback with a negative like a back-handed compliment that was never meant to be one, like when someone says " No offense but," you know they are about to offend you. It was just the Bulls time they finally put together a championship team and they proved it by destroying everyone in the postseason.
It can be Argued whom was the better Defender, however the fact remains that MJ+Pippen were arguably the best Two-Combination Defenders the history has ever Seen, period. 1991 Pippen is Not 1995-96 Pippen, Watch how the Two play again.
Bird would "get" his pts, however he would have to work his ass off to do so. Fact is, that 96 Bulls Teams were a vastly better defensive team overall in contrast to the 86 Celtics here, this series would be 6-7 games to the Bulls.
They lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs, that's not "nearly advanced to the Finals without him". When he returned and they lost to Orlando, he had only been back for 19 games and he still put up playoff averages of 31.5/6.5/4.5
Advancing to game 7 of the 2nd round without your "superstar" should tell you something.. Either the Bulls (minus MJ) were much better than MJ fans give credit for OR the 90s was just that weak. You MJ fans can't have it both ways. You say MJ won all his rings with very little talent on his team. You say he played in a tough 90s era, but when I point out they did very well without him you come up with excuses. So which is it? Were the Bulls that good minus MJ OR was the 90s watered down?
They lost to Orlando because Nick Anderson stole the ball from MJ in the closing seconds.
The Bulls won 57 games the year before MJ retired. They won 55 without MJ the first year he retired. In 88 the Celtics won 57 games with Bird. In 89 (injured) without the Celtics only finished with 42 wins. Who was more important to their team? I realize MJ was awesome but he isn't ahead of the other stars like his brain washed fans seem to think. Magic, Bird, Oscar, Wilt, etc..were as good as anyone.
What ppl like you always fail to mention is the year after look at the record just prior to his return. They were barely over .500, then 13-3 after his return in 95, then 72-10, then 69-13.
And the reason why he didn't get injured? He played within his phsycial limits while others overextended (which helps explain why they had more impact). If MJ played outside of his limits, he would have stayed retired at 30-31, but would have been X times more impactful.
Well Mj said himself he just really learned how to play the game those last 3 years back that they won, really developed that fade, his early days where in the lane leaners or straight up. Realized the game was slower and just worked and perfected that fade. Its really amazing and shows just how unbelieveable the guy was. Used the defenders aggressivness against them simple as that. Look at his foul shots those last 3 years to you will see attemps where huge.
Yea, he actually said he 'Mastered' the game on a mental level after he came back. And actually, if you see his 1st 3-peat, he does the fadeaways often then ppl remember (though not nearly as after the return) but bc he had so many other moves, its easy to forget .
Yup, his ability to use that aggression against his opponents in the post especially was just too much. The gm slowed down big due to all the grabs, holds, etc... oddly enough, the recipe that the Bulls used for earlier success
*not that the Bulls were grabbing n clutching, but I mean the tight suffocating D that they had and how it could shut down a opposing offensive team (just look at Lakers during that period) , other teams tried to use that approach which helped slow the game down in the mid-late 90s, which of course a older MJ found a way to leard around.
During Jordan's retirement, not one team that Jordan faced in any of his Finals won a Championship!!! Why is that? Because the 90s decade was a weak era.
Maybe the Bulls was too strong, you can say it's unfair, but still, there were many good teams back to 90s, they just couldn't compete with the bulls.
Name one team from the 90s (that Jordan beat in the Finals) who went on to WIN a Championship during Jordan's 2 year retirement? That's right, you can't. Not one team that he beat went on to win anything during his retirement.
Bottom line...If MJ was drafted in 79 with Bird and Magic, there is no way he would have won 6 rings during the 80s even if he had the same 90s teammates. Competiton is a huge factor in determining success.
Stop and think for a minute. Teams were stacked with HOF players in the 80s. The 90s were not stacked. The 90s had more teams due to expansion and free agency. Don't you think it stands to reason teams would be weaker? Absolutely. Look at the bench players in the 80s compared to the 90s
You can also say if Magic don't have Jabber oand Worthy, Jordan don't have Pip and Grant, Bird don't have Parish and Mchale, they all posibly have no rings, at least less rings.
Barkley a great player, Malone a great player, Ewing a great center, they don't have rings
jordan was the main reason why the bulls pulled off many great wins. The game winners, point blowouts, and offensive force in general IMO wouldve been too much for them celtics back in the 80s.
When you have a good all around all star like Pippen, and the greatest/most skilled player in the history of the game, as well as the defenses of Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman during their respective, they would've demolished the celtics. Oh wait, there were also good shooters like Steve Kerr.
jordan was the main reason why the bulls pulled off many great wins. The game winners, point blowouts, and offensive force in general IMO wouldve been too much for them celtics back in the 80s.
Every superstar is the main reason their teams pull off so many great wins. Russell, Magic, Bird, Jordan etc...
The game winners, point blowouts, and offensive force in general IMO wouldve been too much for them celtics back in the 80s.
I was never a Bulls fan and even I know they didn't win their rings with "offensive force". They were a team built to win on defense. Jordan didn't win in the 80s for a reason. They brought in a bunch of defensive specialist. The 80s teams had better offense. Look at all the great scorers for the 80s Celtics then compare the 90s Bulls.
jordan was the main reason why the bulls pulled off many great wins.
How far did the Bulls make it without MJ during his 1st retirement? 55 wins, 2nd round game 7 and should've won if not for a blown call. How far did the Celtics make it when Bird retired? You MJ fans are brainwashed.
BigTimePride- Terrible comparison. All the other original Celtics were old and on the verge of retirement when Bird left, plus Lewis died prematurely and K.C. Jones wasn't coaching the team. When Michael first retired, they still had their original core of players healthy and in their prime, plus Phil Jackson was still their head coach.
BigTimePride- Terrible comparison. All the other original Celtics were old and on the verge of retirement when Bird left, plus Lewis died prematurely and K.C. Jones wasn't coaching the team. When Michael first retired, they still had their original core of players healthy and in their prime, plus Phil Jackson was still their head coach.
Good Comparison - Bird took that old washed up team to the playoffs each year. 1990 started out 29-5. Why...the league weakened in 89-90 with 4 new teams.
"Bird took that old washed up team to the playoffs each year. 1990 started out 29-5. Why...the league weakened in 89-90 with 4 new teams."
Washed up? Check out Brian Shaw's, Robert Parish's and Reggie Lewis' numbers from that year. Their numbers from the 91 season compare pretty well to Pippen, Grant and Cartwright.
First of all, YOU got lotta balls coming here calling everybody brainwashed for no apparent reason. This is nothing but jealousy from your part. Give Jordan the team Bird had in 80`s and just wouldn`t be fair to the rest of the league.
And just who are you to judge me? I think Jordan was a awesome player & dominated his era more than anyone (exception Russell). Jordan on the 80s Celtics & McHale-Parish might not be HOF. Then again, they might win 10 rings. You are disputing something because you are defensive (jealous). If you add 4 teams to the league, free agency etc...it's going to weaken the league. You don't have to accept it, but it's common sense! That's why the Bulls made it so far without Jordan his 1st retirement.
Jealous? Maybe YOU should read my original statement before you start blasting off. There is no doubt that the league as a whole got weaker because of free agency and expansion teams but that doesn`t have to mean that the road to the championship is any easier as many Celtics and Pistons fans like to claim, I mean look at your comment, Who did the Bulls ever beat as if the Bulls were going up against LA Sparks and Indiana Fever.
Sir, I am not blasting off and I respect you. I am merely making a point that the 90s Bulls were no better than past greats (not as good IMO). I get frustrated when so many people act like MJ is above other greats. Sure he was awesome, but there were others on his level. MJ fans (not all of them) contradict themselves. One minute they say MJ won with the least amount of talent of all greats The next minute they use lack of talent as his reason for losing to the other greats.
One minute they say MJ won with the least amount of talent of all greats The next minute they use lack of talent as his reason for losing to the other greats.
I made the point above. You can't have it both ways. If the 90s was a great era, then MJ must of had a great team around him to win 6. IF he didn't have a great team around him as many claim, he should have won in the 80s with no talent as well, considering the 80s and 90s are equal in strength (as you claim). See my point?
Michael's 90s teammates were excellent in the roles they filled, IMO, but I don't think they were quite as great as Magic's or Larry's teammates. Plus, his pre-1988 teams were horrible, and he didn't play under a good coach until Jackson came a long. That being said, I think Michael had a better head coach than Bird and Magic, he just had the misfortune of only getting to play with him after being in the league for five years.
It`s very plain and simple. Jordan didn`t win in 80`s `cause rest of his team was crap.I mean just take a look at what he had from 84-89 and you will understand. But if Jordan had what he had from 91-94 it would be a totally different ballgame in 80`s, I think everyone agrees on that. However I`d perfer Larry`s teammates if Jordan Bulls went up against Lakers87 because of no decent man in the middle. Thats why I rate Lakers87 as probably the best team of `em all. They had both speed and size.
@BigTimePride Remember this you fuck, Michael Jordan won 6 titles WITHOUT a dominant big man! 3 titles with Cartwright, and 3 with Longley. Bird had Parrish. Magic had Jabbar. Kobe had Shaq. Michael had no dominant big man. Two Three-peats for Jordan, without a dominant center. What if Jordan had Shaq or Jabbar? Michael would have had 10 titles with a dominant big man.
@thewolfmanchu Remember this ass wipe...Not one team that Jordan beat ever won the Finals not even during his first retirement. That's b/c the league had no powerhouses in the 90s due to expansion. If Jordan's Bulls played in the 80s with Bird & Magic he wouldn't have 6 title and you know it.
Bulls had 55 in 1993-4, but what happen next year? They just became weaker and weaker. Before that, they had 3 peat. From 3 peat to a 50% winning tem, they only spent 1 and half year.
I mean all players were in their prime, and coach the same. They also had Kukoc...after MJ back, they had 14-3
After MJ's first retirement, Bulls still a champ team and they have Kukoc.
And you know although Bulls had only 57 wins but they played much better than the number in playoffs which mean if MJ didn't retire, they could win more games next season.
And after MJ came back, they had 14-3. U can cehck the number before he came back.
in fact, u guys can take the best players of the '60s in their prime...i'll take jordan, dwade, shaq, duncan, and lebron in their primes, and i'm pretty sure i beat u...the only question is by how much...in fact the 5 that i named are just a few, i could probably name another 20 or 30 players from modern era bball to lay the smackdown on the players of yesteryear
You can take your Jordan, Wade, Shaq, Duncan and Lebron.....I'll take Magic, Oscar, Wilt, Moses and Bird. We would destroy.
Look again...You have nobody to contain Magic. He would eat Wade alive. Jordan would have his hands full with Oscar. Plain and simple, Wilt was better than Shaq. Bird would have trouble guarding Lebron, but Lebron could not cover Bird either. Duncan and Moses would be a great match up but Moses was tough as nails. It would be a great game.
Big deal, Reggie Lewis blocked Jordan's shot 4 times in one game, so what's your point? FYI, the bulls got their ass kicked in this game and Bird swept MJ's ass twice in the playoffs :)
These were great blocks but please stop calling MJ the best defensive player ever. Russell was second to none and they didn't have defensive awards in those days or he would have won them all. And if you are a real fan of the game and not a bias homer, you know MJ wasn't even the best defender of his era.
Yeah, because Jordan didn't have consecutive seasons of 200 steals and 100 blocked shots, an unheard of and still unmatched feat by a guard, did he?
Bill Russell is one of, if not THE, greatest defensive players ever, but Jordan is probably the greatest all round player offensively AND defensively! Certainly he's right up there in the defensive stakes with Russell, and as a guard probably the best ever!
Well, its nice to see someone give Russell credit because most people don't. I think he was the best defender to ever play the game.
As mentioned earlier if you are a real fan of the game and not bias, you know MJ wasn't even the best defender of his era, although he was still great.
As far as best all around player offensively and defensively, I would say (my opinion) that honor goes to Wilt Chamberlain.
I'd put Jordan in the Top 10 all time in terms of defense, right up there with Russell, Olajuwon, Chamberlain, (Alvin) Robertson, (Dennis) Johnson, Dumars, Mourning, Moncrief, Rodman, Mutombo and Eaton... with players like Payton, Ben Wallace, Artest and several other players who could get in that list too.
Bill Russell was 'only' 6'8"/6'9", yet he was the man who probably stopped 7'1" Wilt Chamberlain, arguably the most dominant offensive player to EVER play NBA basketball, from winning at LEAST 5 NBA titles. His defense on him was THE decisive factor that allowed the Boston Celtics to repeatedly advance to the NBA Finals and Wilt's expense.
Russell won 11 NBA rings, meaning he won the same number as Jordan (5) and Abdul Jabar (6) COMBINED!
So have some more respect when talking about him okay.
Nuriy, you said "russell played in an era when everyone was puny and no one knew how to dribble left-handed haha"
My reply "Youtube Bob Cousy and you will watch one of the greatest ball handlers to ever step on the court. Also Russell went against Chamberlain not these pathetic centers you see today".
i'm sure if you take the best players of the '90s or the best players today, they'll make the players of the '60s look like bowlers...and don't get all offended just because i typed "haha", much respect to people like russell, but honestly, take those guys from the '60s and put them in today's game, they'll get their asses schooled...the game has just developed so much more, also the players now are vastly superior physically...i would take sha
Jordan was the greatest shotblocker of any SG in history. He was also the greatest ball thief of any SG in history. And the greatest scorer of any SG in history. Three of the reasons why he was the GOAT.
badpdx 1 month ago
does anyone hear that leaky faucet in the background?
CyraxBattle 5 months ago
Omg the hangtime in that first block.
andgar923 5 months ago
Hello 240p....we meet again
joelioes 6 months ago
@kantwu you sir, are a ignorant faggot who knows nothing and is making a complete and utter disgrace of yourself on YouTube. That is all. Oh and Jordan - Bird, any day and everyday.
JbKobayashi 8 months ago
1987-88' Defensive Player of the Year in the NBA
AICMasta 1 year ago
yeah I remember that game,young rookie jordan dropped 63 on bird parish mchale walton's face,and then bird was saying "Today it is the day the God controlled Jordan playing against us" lol
gougou11555 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I make NBA Mixes with so much passion, but noone watches them. Could anyone here give me a comment at least?
KingKoltAir 1 year ago
total luck.
MyBaldMom 1 year ago
#1 all time in blocks for a guard
#2 all time in steals
#3 all time in rebs for a guard
GOAT.
uberathlete 1 year ago
Boston was too much team. Jordan could not do it with a mediocre supporting cast that took another 3-4 years to improve and play on his level.
apostolostv 1 year ago
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MICHAEL is a very powerful name that comes from the Hebrew: מִיכָאֵל / מיכאל (Mikha'el), "who is like ( El )", meaning "Who is like God?" - no wonder why some of the best people in the world were named Michael. Michael Jordan, Michael Jackson, Michael Schumacher, Michael Angelo, ... even the Archangel that slay the devil is Michael.. if you want to have a son someday name him "MICHAEL"; surely another chapter of Greatness will be fulfilled.
dpsd 1 year ago
Haha im sorry besides the great bird all of these fools are overrated
st3nkobe 1 year ago
This happened on MJ's 2nd year in the NBA...
After loosing almost all season games due to an injury...
And all these blocks comes from the best offensive player of all time...
All that, against one of the BEST NBA teams ever (Bird's Celtics)
Though I like most the will to save the ball and not get out of bounds
after his block...but unfortunately his teamates couldn't help much that time,
and that era (early 80's).
SairousClaou 1 year ago
As if the 80's Lakers and Celtics actually did stop.
ronaraullo 1 year ago
The NBA had a salary cap in the mid-40s, but was abolished after only one season. The League continued to play without such a cap until 84-85, when the current incarnation of the salary cap was instituted in an attempt to level the playing field among all of the NBA teams. Before the cap was reinstated, teams could spend whatever amount of money they wanted on players, but in the first season under the new cap, they were each limited to $3.6m in total payroll.
ronaraullo 1 year ago
I wanna see Lebron do this to Gasol, Bynum, and Odom or.....Dwight, VC,and Rashard Lewis.
bigbaby170 2 years ago
these clips just show how unready the league was for jordan i mean not to mention his domination of oponents but not even anyone on his own team anticipated the block or the diving save,
then the ref give the celtic get a new 24 WTF is that
tterrajsirhc 2 years ago
the first one is a foul, but not a jordan's foul...
edu32 2 years ago
You're over here ragging on Jordan who won 6 rings as if that wasn't impressive at all. - Isn't it even less impressive to have been Olajuwon, or Ewing, Malone, Robinson, Barkley, Shaq, Richmond, etc... : stas who combined won far fewer rings in that same time period? How can you claim an era to be weak, then choose to rag on the one player who was actually impressive and stood out with his success? If anything you should be clowing every other star in the 90s first before talking about Jordan.
AIRTIGHT31 2 years ago
BigTimePride-
I agree with you that there were generally fewer 'very good' teams in the 90's as the 80's; however for you to knock on Jordan being ultra successful (without saying anything towards the plethora of stars and superstars who rarely won or didn't win at all shows bias).
AIRTIGHT31 2 years ago
"there were generally fewer 'very good' teams in the 90's as the 80's"
Oh really? 1996-97, 10 of 29 teams won 52+ games (34.5%), the highest % in league history. Need I remind U that MJ & the Bulls beat "7" 60+ win teams in rout to their titles.
Shaq & kobe's, as well as Magic's Lakers only beat 1..Isiah's pistons didn't beat any 60+ win teams & the best team Bird's Celtics ever beat were the '84 Lakers, his other 2 titles came against 2 suspect Rocket teams, 1 of which had a sub .500 record.
blackadam06 2 years ago 21
and just in case U guys try to pull the old "expansion" card, need I ALSO remind y'all of what year(s) the Hornets, T-Wolves, Magic & Heat came into the league?
If y'all are gonna try to taint the 90's & Chicago's Titles with that, what about the Lakers & Pistons, who combined to win in the late 80's & early of '90, right after those 4 franchises came into existence?
Did this "water down" the late 80's, going into 1990 for the lakers & pistons?
blackadam06 2 years ago
@blackadam06 when there are fewer teams with 52+ wins, wudnt dat mean the competition was even greater because every1 wud be on the same level?
tonychoitellem 1 year ago
No it wouldn't..
Too many people like to try & attribute the "greatness" of L.A. & Boston to the ENTIRE early 80's, when that's certainly not the case. I LOVED the early 80's NBA, but If U only have 2 teams facing each other in the finals on a regular basis, what does that say about the rest of the league?
Aside from the Lakers, Celtics, and maybe the 76ers, everyone else was middle of the pack. The comp didn't start to pick up until the mid & late 80's..
blackadam06 1 year ago
@blackadam06 Yeah, your numbers look good until you factor in the shitty teams MJ played against. Larry Bird all the way, Bird schooled Jordan like a slave owner whipping his slave.
kantwu 8 months ago
@kantwu
Go look at all the "shitty teams" Magic & Bird beat in the 80s in route to titles. I grew up in the 80s & saw that era. U idiots act like the NBA was just full of 50 & 60+ win teams galore at that time, when it wasn't.
"Bird schooled Jordan"
80s MJ scoring avg vs BOS
Reg Season: 34.8ppg
Playoffs: 39.7ppg
"Early on people said Michael didn't have a [team] mentality. Well, that's because he [didn't have] a team."
-- Larry Bird: "When The Game Was Ours"; by Jackie Macmullan, 2009
blackadam06 8 months ago
@blackadam06 Tough cause he still got swept twice by the Celtics and couldn't win a ring for his life until the Legend retired. Bird schooled Jordan? I think so.
kantwu 8 months ago
@kantwu
Well since U wanna play the semantics game, Bird only won 1 title after MJ came into the league. Starting in MJ's rookie year until Bird retired in '92, he only won 1 title & MJ won 2.
Only a moron tries to imply that 1 guy "schooled" another, because the success of his team vs the other guy's team. How silly is that?
U act like they were out there playing 1 on 1 or something..SMH
blackadam06 8 months ago
@blackadam06 Well since you want to be an idiot, Bird killed his back in 88. The years after he was never the same, go watch a documentary and stop Googling numbers idiot. While everyone wished Bird a happy life after retiring in their bid-farewell speech, MJ openly expressed he was happy and that the Legend ruined plenty of his "successful" games/playoffs. Oh wait, you're ignorant, what does it matter what unedited filmed footage says, you <3 numbers.
kantwu 8 months ago
@kantwu
I don't need a documentary kid. I grew up watching Bird play & KNOW how his career unfolded.
"Knowing he'd [witnessed] the next marquee star, Bird felt [even more] urgency to seize another title while the Celtics were young & healthy. MJ didn't yet [have the complementary pieces] he [needed] to [contend] for a [championship], but it was [clear to Bird] that it was only a [matter of time] before he would."
-- Jackie Macmullan: "When The Game Was Ours", 2009
blackadam06 8 months ago
@blackadam06 Keep up the Googling, maybe you'll learn something.
kantwu 8 months ago
@kantwu
U need to go Google..
That way U can keep from looking like a goddamn idiot when posting this ignorant ass nonsense..
blackadam06 8 months ago
@blackadam06 Weak response, typical.
kantwu 8 months ago
@kantwu
"I think that Michael, with what he's [done] in the game that he was introduced to and learned to play as a kid, has taken that and has gone [as far] as you can. I don't think [anyone] can [play] this game [any better] than he played."
-- Bill Russell: "The Jordan Phenomenon"; pbs . org online newshour
Next...
blackadam06 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
kantwu 8 months ago
@kantwu
Now that's what U call a "weak ass response"...SMH
When U have to make shit up because U don't have a FACTUAL rebuttal to refute what the other guy said, that's when U KNOW you've been UTTERLY outclassed on the subject LOL!!
"That was God disguised as Michael Jordan."
-- Larry Bird, after MJ set the NBA playoff record for most points in a game against BOS
blackadam06 8 months ago
@blackadam06 Damn you're bad at this. If you were worth my time I'd make you shut up and cry like a little bitch on Larry Legend's ass.
kantwu 8 months ago
@kantwu
Sure U would moron...sure U would
blackadam06 8 months ago
@blackadam06 I'm sure I would, glad you know it.
kantwu 8 months ago
@kantwu
Riiiiiiight...SMH
blackadam06 8 months ago
@kantwu Wow, stfu. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Stop hating and gtfo.
Tyr360 8 months ago
@Tyr360 Your mother said that to you and you cried.
kantwu 8 months ago
@kantwu No, she didn't. Weak ass comeback.
Tyr360 8 months ago
@Tyr360 Nice, in denial & lying, weaaaak.
kantwu 8 months ago
@kantwu Another gem of a comeback.
Tyr360 8 months ago
@Tyr360 Can't say the same for you. Weak.
kantwu 8 months ago
@kantwu jordan>Space>Larry Bird
TheSupersolomonz 7 months ago
@TheSupersolomonz For you, it's Jordan's cock > your mom > your fantasy girlfriend.
kantwu 5 months ago
@blackadam06
anyoen who says that take a look at the 86 Celtics v these Bulls. the games were decently close for 1st round games. they could not guard Jordan then with an incomplete game and shit supporting cast. How would that team deal with a complete Jordan lets say 92' and a very good supporting cast?
big difference when your 2nd best player is an all star scottie pippen compared to orlando woolridge
Dkouts57 7 months ago
but he couldn't get Bird
Damien284729 2 years ago
lidfhldifalifgalfigh....
sokinikos23 2 years ago
basketball will never be the same.
MJ can FLY
KendallT20 2 years ago
yeh thats most probably true, but that doesn mean it got worse. it just changed.. i mean just look how athletic the players are these days.. no way itll be ever again like this
stream0fspin 2 years ago
3 blocks for SG in a game is class
Estonskii 2 years ago
wtf parish missed that dunk
gougou11555 2 years ago
teammates confidence, and helped, or at least allowed them to develop their talents to levels they wouldn't have gotten to otherwise (as great as Pippen was, I don't think he would've become NEAR the player he did had he not played alongside Jordan). When he retired, it wasn't like Larry Bird being injured - the bulls KNEW he wasn't coming back, and practiced accordingly. By then they had a system in place where they could still be successful (but not win a title).
Just my opinion! Peace out!
ANDREWMSAPP 2 years ago
DAMN!!! That IS pretty impressive!! I wonder if any other player can say they they blocked Parish, McHale, and Walton all in the same game! Kareem, maybe?
Personally, my opinion, and it's just my opinion, is that the Bulls were able to reach game 7 of the 2nd round without MJ because he, along with Phil Jackson, had turned them into a team of winners, even in his absence. Remember, one of the great things about Jordan was that he made other players better. I really believe that he gave his
ANDREWMSAPP 2 years ago
jordan set the standard for help defense blocks! no one did it better.
arkade2345 2 years ago
JOrdan may have set the standard but Lebron has perfected it>
dldowell1122 2 years ago
no, lebron has perfected the fast break chase down block. that is his patented defensive move that he has really made his own this season. he is not a great help defender like jordan here; jordan was notorious for helping on the man in the post and blocking him when he spun! that is different form what LBJ does. also, MJ led the league in steals and is 3rd all time due to his incredible instincts on the weak side to anticipate the passing lanes and steal for fast break dunks!
arkade2345 2 years ago
ya at this point, lebron is no where near the the lock down defender jordan was. Lebron is faster than jordan line to line, but Jordan is 2 times quicker. Look at tapes of Jordans first step im sure you know but he never needed a crossover really. Bron has really inproved his defense but not near jordan's level forget it.
Bigturns33 2 years ago
I agree with everything you said except for LeBron being faster than Jordan line for line. He is a unique specimen/super athlete being 6'8 270. He will only improve, but MJ's defense was otherworldly...
spitnificent 2 years ago
Lebron's help defense is on par with Jordans, but one-on-one i just don't see him getting there.
And I don't even think Lebron is faster line to line, he's just bigger and stronger so he doesn't have to work around people, he just has to go through people. Not a knock on Lebron, its just a different style of play and it works. The argument for Lebron vs. MJ (MJ is better) is similar to the argument for Shaq vs. Hakeem.
PhanatixDDH 2 years ago 4
@PhanatixDDH I would say the Shaq vs. Hakeem would be a better argument because, for the most part, they played in the same era (though they did peek at different times) mostly under the same rules. Of course Lebron can go through people these days with the league's cream puff joke defense they allow the defenders to play!
EdmondLau2007 1 month ago
Lebron is faster than jordan line to line? SMH..
"When he [enrolled] at Chapel Hill, Jordan ran the 40-yard dash in [4.6 seconds]. This fall, he ran a [4.3]."
-- Dean Smith, Sports Illustrated, Nov 28, 1983
During his PRIME years in the NBA, MJ CONSISTENTLY ran a 4.2 - 4.3 in the 40. Now PLEASE show me where Lebron has done this at ANY point in his career..
blackadam06 2 years ago 2
lol @ these white boys back in the day
ip916a4bb 2 years ago
You guys should stop the fucking argument.
The first block was okay, but Parish should have passed it off instead of going for it. The second and third blocks were very impressive.
dnzg66 2 years ago
Sorry, I meant to say Michael's teammates weren't as great on the OFFENSIVE end. Just about all of them were excellent defenders and could probably match up well against a lot of 80s players.
Droog13 3 years ago
Also, in 1990, McHale, Parish and Lewis missed a grand total of six games and posted solid numbers, plus DJ was still an effective passer despite his age.
Droog13 3 years ago
I agree Bulls dominated their era more so than any 80s team. I agree the Bulls are the better dynasty over any 80s team. However, comparing the teams head to head, 80s teams were superior
DJ vs Paxson-Kerr.....DJ better
Ainge vs Jordan.........Jordan better
Parish vs Cart.............Parish better
McHale vs Grant........McHale better
Bird vs Pippen...........Bird better
McHale vs Rodman....McHale better
Bench....Celtics
Boston wins every position except SG. Do you see my point?
BigTimePride 3 years ago
Also, look at what happened to the Bulls after Michael retired a second time. They went from being a championship team to as bad as the Clippers overnight.
Droog13 3 years ago
Michael Jordan blocks dwight howard, blocks yao ming, blocks kobe, blocks lebron blocks wade if he plays now!
tommyhtc 3 years ago
0:57 is a legendary jersey!!
jordan is Definetly the GOAT
bashmo 3 years ago
None of the Bulls' opponents in the Finals were as weak as the 1981 Rockets.
This may be true but none of the Bulls opponents in the Finals were as good as the early 80s Sixers teams. Boston was beating some very talented 76ers teams along with the Bucks and Pistons. When they did lose a Championship, they lost to one of the best teams in history. In 85 Bird was hurt in the Finals and it really affected his game. I agree the Bulls were great, but many MJ fans can't see reality.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
"This may be true but none of the Bulls opponents in the Finals were as good as the early 80s Sixers teams."
Eh, I don't know, the 93 Suns were pretty good, and so were the 96 Sonics. Also, I don't think measuring their greatness by how many HOF players they have is accurate, since some of the main contributors on those Bulls teams aren't even eligible for the HOF yet. Also, I'd say they had at least three. Rodman was pretty damn good and deserves recognition.
Droog13 3 years ago
@BigTimePride So because the Bulls didn't beat the pistons or the knicks in the NBA Finals that mean they faced no great teams? So does sweeping the two-time defending NBA champs count for anything? And that 80's sixers team was about as flawed as the cavaliers have been the last two years. Its a reason they won 62 games and lost that was before moses malone was on the team. So lets compare Celtics beat sixer team that couldn't get over the hump and the Bulls beat a 2 time champion
sbwan 1 year ago
Reality is...The 90s Bulls dominated their era and only Russell's Celtics compare or surpass. However, reality is....head to head, comparing man to man, the 80s teams had a roster full of HOF players while the 90s Bulls had two. This is no knock to MJ or the Bulls, but I get irritated when fans say the Bulls were a better team. Nonsense.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
"However, reality is....head to head, comparing man to man, the 80s teams had a roster full of HOF players while the 90s Bulls had two. "
So the Bulls are inferior to the 80s teams because they have fewer HOFers than the others combined? By my count, Boston had exactly one more HOF player than Chicago, while L.A. and Detroit each had three.
Plus, don't forget how good Indiana, Seattle, New York, Orlando and Utah were in the 90s.
Droog13 3 years ago
Plus, don't forget how good Indiana, Seattle, New York, Orlando and Utah were in the 90s.
And how many of these teams won rings during MJs first retirement? And how far did the Bulls make it without MJ during his 1st retirement? Bulls advanced to game 7 of 2nd round and should've won if not for a blown call. Were the Bulls that good without MJ, or was MJ not as great as everything thinks? Neither, it was a weak era due to expansion and free agency. Look at Boston when Bird retired.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
It's strange, what do you mean MJ is not as great as people think?
How the hell you know what people think?
You don't know, in fact, you just don't know what people feel about MJ. Some people just love MJ, and MJ does win and breaks many record.
You really don't have right to tell people what should they think about MJ, you know that? You just make horrible mistake in the very beginning, you try to convince people out there. And why? It won't change the world even you did it
jimmychuang 2 years ago 3
jimmy,
I was merely giving my own opinion. Like every other fan, I have a right to my opinion. Look at the facts. When Jordan retired the Bulls only lost 2 games without him & nearly advanced to the Finals without him. When he returned, Orlanda beat the Bulls in the playoffs. Jordan had a crucial turnover.
Jordan didn't win anything until Bird & Magic faded. Jordan didn't win anything until expansion and free agency weakened the league.
BigTimePride 2 years ago
nope, Magic was only 30, he could still play. do you really think if scott and worthy were healthy, then the bulls couldn't beat lakers?
bird had celtics, although mj never beat celtics in playoffs, but he embarrassed them many times.
I hope MJ's Bulls in 91-93 could meet Celtics in 80's in playoffs but it would never happen.
jimmychuang 2 years ago
Once again, when the Bulls played the Lakers in the Finals, Jabbar was gone, Cooper gone, Riley gone, Green gone...Both Worthy and Scott injured in game 3 and never returned the rest of the series. Come on man, they were not the same Lakers as the Showtime 80s.
BigTimePride 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You guys always bring up MJ big games against the Celtics. Let me refresh your memory. After MJ scored 63 in game 2 in Boston....2 days later in game 3 in CHICAGO, MJ was held to 19 points and the Celtics crushed them on their homecourt for the sweep.
BigTimePride 2 years ago
Since U seem to know everything why don`t U tell me why He only scored 19 points in game 3 ? And while we at it can U tell me why was He able to post up 49 and 63 at the Garden ?
ervakova 2 years ago 3
Going in to that series Boston knew MJ was a great scorer. Boston was also smart enough to know that one man cannot beat a great team. So they left MJ shoot, didn't double, didn't trap etc...After seeing MJ had a hot hand, they made some adjustments for game 3 and it worked = no more close games. Boston crushed them in Chicago.
I never said MJ wasn't a grea player bc he certainly was. I am saying that the 80s was a stronger era with better teams than the 90s Bulls. Expansion = weakness.
BigTimePride 2 years ago
You are describing Game 1 my friend, adjustments came in Game 2 after Boston REALIZED what They were up against and in Game 2 They doubled,trippled and trapped.
Regarding Game 3 Jordan was on the bench for long periods of time cause He was in foul-trouble. If U have that game U will see those fantom calls. It was ridiculous...
ervakova 2 years ago 8
@BigTimePride When Jordan hit his prime, and Pippen hit his prime, they weren't going to be beat! Add Rodman in there for rebounds and great defense, and you have the best basketball team of all time! 1995-1996 Bulls. I would put the 1996 Bulls against your 86 Celtics any day of the week! Rodman would fuck with McHale all night long! Jordan would have killed Ainge. Pippen would cause alot of problems for Larry Bird. I'll give Bird the edge, but just barely.
thewolfmanchu 1 year ago
@thewolfmanchu You idiot Pippen wouldn't give Bird a hard time. I watched Bird smoke Pippen on more than one occasion & Bird was past his prime. Rodman said McHale was a nightmare to guard. Robert Parish who finished his career with the Bulls was asked who would win 86 Celtics or 96 Bulls and Parish said "no comparison the Celtics would beat them".
BigTimePride 1 year ago
@BigTimePride
I'm sorry, but Pippen during the early 90's was NOT the same Pippen from 1994 onward. If you watch both of them, but Pippen from 94 since he had to lead changed his mentality and play.
Parish would say 86 would beat 96, it's Parish no duh much like Pip saying 96>All. I remember one interview Riley stated "No Team can ever beat a Jordan Led Bulls" coming from a guy who did what with the 80's lakers?
Defensively 96 Bulls were Better, imo 96Bulss>87 Lkrs>86 Clts
TrueSephiros 1 year ago
@TrueSephiros The Bulls had to use Pippen to defend Magic Johnson in the 90-91 Finals b/c Jordan couldn't slow Magic down in game one as LA beat the Bulls in Chicago. So already Pippen was a better defender than Jordan from 1990 onward. That same season the Celtics started of 29-5 before Bird got hurt. Keep in mind Bird was playing with scrub players that year. Point being I watched Bird smoke Pippen that year in the garden & Bird was way past his prime already. So no Pippen couldn't slow Bird.
BigTimePride 1 year ago
@BigTimePride Get your facts straight they switched Pippen on Magic so he could bother magic full court and cause them to be slower getting into their sets, plus Pippen getting in foul trouble was less of a blow than Jordan getting in to foul trouble because Jordan was the entire offense, not only did Jordan lead in scoring he also avg 11 assists.With Pippen guarding magic his numbers were virtually the same as when Jordan did. So the move was ONLY about conserving energy not who defended better
sbwan 1 year ago
@sbwan Bottom line...LA lost game one in Chicago with Jordan on Magic while Magic picked the Bulls apart. Why is it so hard for MJ fans to admit Pippen was a better defender?
BigTimePride 1 year ago
@BigTimePride Am I am a Bulls fan not just an MJ fan. You just take certain facts while leaving out others to try and twist them to suit your point of view. The Bulls lost game one on a Sam Perkins three pointer not because Magic went off. Magic had 20 assists in game 5 with Pippen guarding him and they still lost. The fact is if it wasn't for that Sam Perkins three the Lakers prob would have gotten swept the same way the Pistons did in the previous round.
sbwan 1 year ago
@sbwan There was also an OT game in that Finals. Fact is LA took game 1 in Chicago but the Bulls went on to win the next 4. However, as the Bulls were leading the series 2-1 (pip on magic) the Lakers lost both Worthy & Scott to injuries early in game 4 and they didn't return rest of the series. I'm not saying this prevent the Bulls from winning the title but I find it hard to believe the 90 Bulls would stand much of a chance with the 80s Lakers considering their hands were full with this LA team
BigTimePride 1 year ago
@BigTimePride OMG this Laker team beat a 63 win Trailblazers team, this same team won 60+ games the year before. You just refuse to give The Bulls any credit, you say something then you immediately comeback with a negative like a back-handed compliment that was never meant to be one, like when someone says " No offense but," you know they are about to offend you. It was just the Bulls time they finally put together a championship team and they proved it by destroying everyone in the postseason.
sbwan 1 year ago
@BigTimePride A 15-2 post-season record should speak for itself!
sbwan 1 year ago
Comment removed
TrueSephiros 1 year ago
@BigTimePride
It can be Argued whom was the better Defender, however the fact remains that MJ+Pippen were arguably the best Two-Combination Defenders the history has ever Seen, period. 1991 Pippen is Not 1995-96 Pippen, Watch how the Two play again.
Bird would "get" his pts, however he would have to work his ass off to do so. Fact is, that 96 Bulls Teams were a vastly better defensive team overall in contrast to the 86 Celtics here, this series would be 6-7 games to the Bulls.
TrueSephiros 1 year ago
They lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs, that's not "nearly advanced to the Finals without him". When he returned and they lost to Orlando, he had only been back for 19 games and he still put up playoff averages of 31.5/6.5/4.5
BillORele 2 years ago
Advancing to game 7 of the 2nd round without your "superstar" should tell you something.. Either the Bulls (minus MJ) were much better than MJ fans give credit for OR the 90s was just that weak. You MJ fans can't have it both ways. You say MJ won all his rings with very little talent on his team. You say he played in a tough 90s era, but when I point out they did very well without him you come up with excuses. So which is it? Were the Bulls that good minus MJ OR was the 90s watered down?
BigTimePride 2 years ago
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JayT98 2 years ago
They lost to Orlando because Nick Anderson stole the ball from MJ in the closing seconds.
The Bulls won 57 games the year before MJ retired. They won 55 without MJ the first year he retired. In 88 the Celtics won 57 games with Bird. In 89 (injured) without the Celtics only finished with 42 wins. Who was more important to their team? I realize MJ was awesome but he isn't ahead of the other stars like his brain washed fans seem to think. Magic, Bird, Oscar, Wilt, etc..were as good as anyone.
BigTimePride 2 years ago
What ppl like you always fail to mention is the year after look at the record just prior to his return. They were barely over .500, then 13-3 after his return in 95, then 72-10, then 69-13.
And the reason why he didn't get injured? He played within his phsycial limits while others overextended (which helps explain why they had more impact). If MJ played outside of his limits, he would have stayed retired at 30-31, but would have been X times more impactful.
at1212b 2 years ago
Well Mj said himself he just really learned how to play the game those last 3 years back that they won, really developed that fade, his early days where in the lane leaners or straight up. Realized the game was slower and just worked and perfected that fade. Its really amazing and shows just how unbelieveable the guy was. Used the defenders aggressivness against them simple as that. Look at his foul shots those last 3 years to you will see attemps where huge.
Bigturns33 2 years ago
Yea, he actually said he 'Mastered' the game on a mental level after he came back. And actually, if you see his 1st 3-peat, he does the fadeaways often then ppl remember (though not nearly as after the return) but bc he had so many other moves, its easy to forget .
Yup, his ability to use that aggression against his opponents in the post especially was just too much. The gm slowed down big due to all the grabs, holds, etc... oddly enough, the recipe that the Bulls used for earlier success
at1212b 2 years ago 3
*not that the Bulls were grabbing n clutching, but I mean the tight suffocating D that they had and how it could shut down a opposing offensive team (just look at Lakers during that period) , other teams tried to use that approach which helped slow the game down in the mid-late 90s, which of course a older MJ found a way to leard around.
at1212b 2 years ago
excellent points. I hope you don't mind me using this info.
JayT98 2 years ago
During Jordan's retirement, not one team that Jordan faced in any of his Finals won a Championship!!! Why is that? Because the 90s decade was a weak era.
BigTimePride 2 years ago
thats not an equation.
Maybe the Bulls was too strong, you can say it's unfair, but still, there were many good teams back to 90s, they just couldn't compete with the bulls.
jimmychuang 2 years ago
Jimmy,
Name one team from the 90s (that Jordan beat in the Finals) who went on to WIN a Championship during Jordan's 2 year retirement? That's right, you can't. Not one team that he beat went on to win anything during his retirement.
BigTimePride 2 years ago
Bottom line...If MJ was drafted in 79 with Bird and Magic, there is no way he would have won 6 rings during the 80s even if he had the same 90s teammates. Competiton is a huge factor in determining success.
Stop and think for a minute. Teams were stacked with HOF players in the 80s. The 90s were not stacked. The 90s had more teams due to expansion and free agency. Don't you think it stands to reason teams would be weaker? Absolutely. Look at the bench players in the 80s compared to the 90s
BigTimePride 2 years ago
You can also say if Magic don't have Jabber oand Worthy, Jordan don't have Pip and Grant, Bird don't have Parish and Mchale, they all posibly have no rings, at least less rings.
Barkley a great player, Malone a great player, Ewing a great center, they don't have rings
jimmychuang 2 years ago 2
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AIRTIGHT31 2 years ago
i didnt say the bulls were a better team than the 80's celtics.
I just said Jordan is the greatest of all time!!
bashmo 3 years ago
I replied to your comment by mistake and I apologize.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
jordan was the main reason why the bulls pulled off many great wins. The game winners, point blowouts, and offensive force in general IMO wouldve been too much for them celtics back in the 80s.
When you have a good all around all star like Pippen, and the greatest/most skilled player in the history of the game, as well as the defenses of Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman during their respective, they would've demolished the celtics. Oh wait, there were also good shooters like Steve Kerr.
bashmo 3 years ago
jordan was the main reason why the bulls pulled off many great wins. The game winners, point blowouts, and offensive force in general IMO wouldve been too much for them celtics back in the 80s.
Every superstar is the main reason their teams pull off so many great wins. Russell, Magic, Bird, Jordan etc...
BigTimePride 3 years ago
The game winners, point blowouts, and offensive force in general IMO wouldve been too much for them celtics back in the 80s.
I was never a Bulls fan and even I know they didn't win their rings with "offensive force". They were a team built to win on defense. Jordan didn't win in the 80s for a reason. They brought in a bunch of defensive specialist. The 80s teams had better offense. Look at all the great scorers for the 80s Celtics then compare the 90s Bulls.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
jordan was the main reason why the bulls pulled off many great wins.
How far did the Bulls make it without MJ during his 1st retirement? 55 wins, 2nd round game 7 and should've won if not for a blown call. How far did the Celtics make it when Bird retired? You MJ fans are brainwashed.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
BigTimePride- Terrible comparison. All the other original Celtics were old and on the verge of retirement when Bird left, plus Lewis died prematurely and K.C. Jones wasn't coaching the team. When Michael first retired, they still had their original core of players healthy and in their prime, plus Phil Jackson was still their head coach.
Droog13 3 years ago
BigTimePride- Terrible comparison. All the other original Celtics were old and on the verge of retirement when Bird left, plus Lewis died prematurely and K.C. Jones wasn't coaching the team. When Michael first retired, they still had their original core of players healthy and in their prime, plus Phil Jackson was still their head coach.
Good Comparison - Bird took that old washed up team to the playoffs each year. 1990 started out 29-5. Why...the league weakened in 89-90 with 4 new teams.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
"Bird took that old washed up team to the playoffs each year. 1990 started out 29-5. Why...the league weakened in 89-90 with 4 new teams."
Washed up? Check out Brian Shaw's, Robert Parish's and Reggie Lewis' numbers from that year. Their numbers from the 91 season compare pretty well to Pippen, Grant and Cartwright.
Droog13 3 years ago
First of all, YOU got lotta balls coming here calling everybody brainwashed for no apparent reason. This is nothing but jealousy from your part. Give Jordan the team Bird had in 80`s and just wouldn`t be fair to the rest of the league.
ervakova 3 years ago
And just who are you to judge me? I think Jordan was a awesome player & dominated his era more than anyone (exception Russell). Jordan on the 80s Celtics & McHale-Parish might not be HOF. Then again, they might win 10 rings. You are disputing something because you are defensive (jealous). If you add 4 teams to the league, free agency etc...it's going to weaken the league. You don't have to accept it, but it's common sense! That's why the Bulls made it so far without Jordan his 1st retirement.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
"If you add 4 teams to the league, free agency etc...it's going to weaken the league. "
If that were true, than any season that happened after 1960 might as well be considered irrelevant. More players= more competition, IMO.
Droog13 3 years ago
Jealous? Maybe YOU should read my original statement before you start blasting off. There is no doubt that the league as a whole got weaker because of free agency and expansion teams but that doesn`t have to mean that the road to the championship is any easier as many Celtics and Pistons fans like to claim, I mean look at your comment, Who did the Bulls ever beat as if the Bulls were going up against LA Sparks and Indiana Fever.
ervakova 3 years ago
Sir, I am not blasting off and I respect you. I am merely making a point that the 90s Bulls were no better than past greats (not as good IMO). I get frustrated when so many people act like MJ is above other greats. Sure he was awesome, but there were others on his level. MJ fans (not all of them) contradict themselves. One minute they say MJ won with the least amount of talent of all greats The next minute they use lack of talent as his reason for losing to the other greats.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
One minute they say MJ won with the least amount of talent of all greats The next minute they use lack of talent as his reason for losing to the other greats.
I made the point above. You can't have it both ways. If the 90s was a great era, then MJ must of had a great team around him to win 6. IF he didn't have a great team around him as many claim, he should have won in the 80s with no talent as well, considering the 80s and 90s are equal in strength (as you claim). See my point?
BigTimePride 3 years ago
BigTimePride:
Michael's 90s teammates were excellent in the roles they filled, IMO, but I don't think they were quite as great as Magic's or Larry's teammates. Plus, his pre-1988 teams were horrible, and he didn't play under a good coach until Jackson came a long. That being said, I think Michael had a better head coach than Bird and Magic, he just had the misfortune of only getting to play with him after being in the league for five years.
Droog13 3 years ago
It`s very plain and simple. Jordan didn`t win in 80`s `cause rest of his team was crap.I mean just take a look at what he had from 84-89 and you will understand. But if Jordan had what he had from 91-94 it would be a totally different ballgame in 80`s, I think everyone agrees on that. However I`d perfer Larry`s teammates if Jordan Bulls went up against Lakers87 because of no decent man in the middle. Thats why I rate Lakers87 as probably the best team of `em all. They had both speed and size.
ervakova 3 years ago
@BigTimePride Remember this you fuck, Michael Jordan won 6 titles WITHOUT a dominant big man! 3 titles with Cartwright, and 3 with Longley. Bird had Parrish. Magic had Jabbar. Kobe had Shaq. Michael had no dominant big man. Two Three-peats for Jordan, without a dominant center. What if Jordan had Shaq or Jabbar? Michael would have had 10 titles with a dominant big man.
thewolfmanchu 1 year ago
@thewolfmanchu Remember this ass wipe...Not one team that Jordan beat ever won the Finals not even during his first retirement. That's b/c the league had no powerhouses in the 90s due to expansion. If Jordan's Bulls played in the 80s with Bird & Magic he wouldn't have 6 title and you know it.
BigTimePride 1 year ago
I gues he judge because you say others are brainwashed first.
jimmychuang 2 years ago
I apologize for calling MJ fans brainwashed. I didn't mean all of his fans but there are certainly many of them.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
Bulls had 55 in 1993-4, but what happen next year? They just became weaker and weaker. Before that, they had 3 peat. From 3 peat to a 50% winning tem, they only spent 1 and half year.
I mean all players were in their prime, and coach the same. They also had Kukoc...after MJ back, they had 14-3
jimmychuang 2 years ago
And Bulls played sucks in 1994....
After MJ's first retirement, Bulls still a champ team and they have Kukoc.
And you know although Bulls had only 57 wins but they played much better than the number in playoffs which mean if MJ didn't retire, they could win more games next season.
And after MJ came back, they had 14-3. U can cehck the number before he came back.
jimmychuang 2 years ago
OMG this young man was a king in Boston Garden above Legends.
michalus 3 years ago
was this during the 87 playoffs
jaboo82681 3 years ago
in fact, u guys can take the best players of the '60s in their prime...i'll take jordan, dwade, shaq, duncan, and lebron in their primes, and i'm pretty sure i beat u...the only question is by how much...in fact the 5 that i named are just a few, i could probably name another 20 or 30 players from modern era bball to lay the smackdown on the players of yesteryear
nuriy 3 years ago
You can take your Jordan, Wade, Shaq, Duncan and Lebron.....I'll take Magic, Oscar, Wilt, Moses and Bird. We would destroy.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
sorry, u can't have magic or bird...they're from jordan's era...u can put them on my team tho haha
nuriy 3 years ago
Sooo... You would take Oscar Robinson over Micheal Jordan... And just what is your justification for such a choice?
ChaosCat79 3 years ago
Robertson, not Robinson.
rrTale 3 years ago
*Eek!* My bad! Sorry about that.
ChaosCat79 3 years ago
you'd get crushed!
60425 3 years ago
I beg to differ!
BigTimePride 3 years ago
let's be honest my dude, who would magic and bird guard?that's why your team would get lit!
60425 3 years ago
You can take your Jordan, Wade, Shaq, Duncan and Lebron.....I'll take Magic, Oscar, Wilt, Moses and Bird. We would destroy.
Look again...You have nobody to contain Magic. He would eat Wade alive. Jordan would have his hands full with Oscar. Plain and simple, Wilt was better than Shaq. Bird would have trouble guarding Lebron, but Lebron could not cover Bird either. Duncan and Moses would be a great match up but Moses was tough as nails. It would be a great game.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
Jordan defense just sickkkkk.
MJisKingKobesuckss 3 years ago
Big deal, Reggie Lewis blocked Jordan's shot 4 times in one game, so what's your point? FYI, the bulls got their ass kicked in this game and Bird swept MJ's ass twice in the playoffs :)
MerkinMuffly 3 years ago
You`re right on target as always !!!
In my world, whenever a 7 footer blocks few shots on small people, that`s what I would call Wow big deal !!!
ervakova 3 years ago
MJ - 9 time nba defensive 1st team...equaled by no other nba player, especially none of the other superstars...
nuriy 3 years ago
These were great blocks but please stop calling MJ the best defensive player ever. Russell was second to none and they didn't have defensive awards in those days or he would have won them all. And if you are a real fan of the game and not a bias homer, you know MJ wasn't even the best defender of his era.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
Yeah, because Jordan didn't have consecutive seasons of 200 steals and 100 blocked shots, an unheard of and still unmatched feat by a guard, did he?
Bill Russell is one of, if not THE, greatest defensive players ever, but Jordan is probably the greatest all round player offensively AND defensively! Certainly he's right up there in the defensive stakes with Russell, and as a guard probably the best ever!
ChaosCat79 3 years ago
Well, its nice to see someone give Russell credit because most people don't. I think he was the best defender to ever play the game.
As mentioned earlier if you are a real fan of the game and not bias, you know MJ wasn't even the best defender of his era, although he was still great.
As far as best all around player offensively and defensively, I would say (my opinion) that honor goes to Wilt Chamberlain.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
I'd put Jordan in the Top 10 all time in terms of defense, right up there with Russell, Olajuwon, Chamberlain, (Alvin) Robertson, (Dennis) Johnson, Dumars, Mourning, Moncrief, Rodman, Mutombo and Eaton... with players like Payton, Ben Wallace, Artest and several other players who could get in that list too.
ChaosCat79 3 years ago
ChaosCat,
Good post. Also glad to see you mention Dennis Johnson. He was really good and doesn't get the recognition he deserves.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
Don't forget Michael Cooper
YellowMK2T 3 years ago
*Chuckles* Hey thanks, I knew I'd left someone out. :D
ChaosCat79 3 years ago
russell played in an era when everyone was puny and no one knew how to dribble left-handed haha
nuriy 3 years ago
Bill Russell was 'only' 6'8"/6'9", yet he was the man who probably stopped 7'1" Wilt Chamberlain, arguably the most dominant offensive player to EVER play NBA basketball, from winning at LEAST 5 NBA titles. His defense on him was THE decisive factor that allowed the Boston Celtics to repeatedly advance to the NBA Finals and Wilt's expense.
Russell won 11 NBA rings, meaning he won the same number as Jordan (5) and Abdul Jabar (6) COMBINED!
So have some more respect when talking about him okay.
ChaosCat79 3 years ago
ChaosCat,
Another great post on Russell and you are very accurate. Nice to see a true fan of the game with knowledge of what the game is all about.
BigTimePride 3 years ago
Nuriy, you said "russell played in an era when everyone was puny and no one knew how to dribble left-handed haha"
My reply "Youtube Bob Cousy and you will watch one of the greatest ball handlers to ever step on the court. Also Russell went against Chamberlain not these pathetic centers you see today".
BigTimePride 3 years ago
i'm sure if you take the best players of the '90s or the best players today, they'll make the players of the '60s look like bowlers...and don't get all offended just because i typed "haha", much respect to people like russell, but honestly, take those guys from the '60s and put them in today's game, they'll get their asses schooled...the game has just developed so much more, also the players now are vastly superior physically...i would take sha