I think this Muslim girl was kind of awesome, except when she got too nervous and started reflexively going all "WE'RE ALL AMERICANS AND GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT."
I think the room hit the perfect tense balance between dogpiling and . . . what, accommodation? Anyways, it was incredible to hear.
I have to say, i thought the way the panel's two farthest members shouted down the muslim girl was uncalled for. Having said that, she didn't make a good case for her religious beliefs. seemed very much like a security blanket for her after the traumantic event in her life. still, props to her for not backign down and for answering the questions honestly.
Lovely panel. I salute the Muslim woman for her openness, but was saddened by her ability to answer questions that would imply that she was more moral than her god.
@jameshanley40 We were lucky to have ONE person filming. It was arranged at the last minute, and the person filming was someone who volunteered his camera and time. We didn't put on the event for the purpose of getting it up to YouTube, so this is just what we've got.
getting it on youtube is really important for reaching people.. including many serious listeners that are looking for this sort of thing. so it's a good idea to ask everybody if they can film.. then not have to rely on one person volunteering.
Don't be a twat. Lots of people have a digital video camera, put a request out beforehand. You shouldn't have just waited for a volunteer. ASK PEOPLE. And i'm sure other people would've been willing to hold a camera So don't make such a big deal about somebody volunteering their time.. Everybody volunteered their time to come and listen. It's something they really wanted to do. And if you'd have asked they'd have been only too happy.
@jameshanley40 - How about microphones for each speaker to make the audio better? How about better seating for the panel and audience? How about an actual sound stage for better acoustics?
@DyerVaper Agreed. It's important to remember we're all family. We share the same natural passion and urge to defend what we value. Whether it's a theist defending their faith, an atheist defending their reason or a soldier defending their nation, it all comes from the same place inside of us. If we emphasize our connections over our differences, humanity can truly be united.
The Muslim girl's main problem seems to be that she isn't very well taught in critical thinking. It's not that she doesn't recognize that logic and evidence should be used to form beliefs, it's that she thinks emotional reasons for beliefs can be just as valid.
I think a lot of religious people don't realize that their minds can produce extraordinary emotions and convictions, which feel supernatural, but which aren't.
@Dianeva89 Yes, they only feel "supernatural" to a theist because religion has systematically and virulently hijacked the natural experiences that are at the core of what it means to be human.
To anyone who's interested, Christopher Hitchens debated Tony Blair the other day. It was exceptionally good.
I watched these videos and that debate roughly around the same time, and enjoyed both, so I figured I'd let anyone know about the Hitchens/Blair debate who didn't already know.
I think muslims should just get over it and try pork. It's sooooo FUCKING good. How the hell does eating a pig effect your intellectual relationship with your deiety. Ever seen how dirty chickens are?
@Domzdream damn straight, also, catholic priests should get over their issues and try vagina, it's even better than pork. and a hell of a lot better than Justin Bieber's ass. tell you what, I'll call some girls, you bring the bacon, and let's convert some motherfuckers to atheism lol. We can start off with an orgy in the Sistine Chapel, and then head over to Mecca for a BBQ :]
I did get really frustrated once listening to someone talk on the phone in the library. The caller went on and on about how great her friend was doing at work and how pleased her boss was and she just got her second promotion etc., and it was all because she's so faithful and true to god. I wanted to shout "NO! Your friend is succeeding at her job because she's good at it! Don't insult her by giving the credit to someone else!" It drives me nuts.
The statement about television being a large cause of the civil rights movement success is analogous to what the internet is doing with atheism today.
The muslim girl is not brave. She feels comfortable there because it's a secular debate. Another reason why religion is so insane. Let her profess her beliefs to some strict fundamentalist christians and I'll call her brave.
The muslim girl is not brave. She feels comfortable there because it's a secular debate. Another reason why religion is so insane. Let her profess her believes to some strict fundamentalist christians and I'll call her brave.
Thinking that "it solved all my problems" is the biggest mistake she has made. Even if she thinks this, there is a price to pay because she is now not free to decide on anything that goes against islam, unless she decides to leave islam, and we all know what the punishment for that is.
My opinion: All religious people must die. No evidence, too many assertions, too many gods, too many religions, too many denominations, too many religious texts and too much delusion. There are so many unsupported presuppositions in so many different religions, which makes humanity look really bad to any possible extraterrestrial civilizations that are more advanced. Religious people claim to "feel" their gods, but they wouldn't be able to without brains or else they would be dead.
@XxC0NDEMNEDxX Let's not forget that many (if not a majority) of atheists were former believers. Can you imagine how many future rational free-thinkers we'd be denying the world if we simply killed everyone who was currently religious?
@jordanromaker That's why we must harness the power of space and time to travel to the future and figure out who is still religious, then we must travel back to the present and kill all who remain religious until they die. If we do that for every generation, religion can be greatly reduced and eventually destroyed. Now where did I put that matter-antimatter annihilation reactor? Can't travel through time without it.
@muzvh1 Of course I was, but if you're up to date with current physics and other fields of science, you'll realize that time travel is being considered a big possibility and even mathematical formulas have been published to demonstrate its potentiality.
"Why I should help my mum. because I want to help her not because someone tells me too"
Religion has a list of rules were someone else (god) tells you to do things.
That part of her answer is how an atheist might answer. She gives a few answers that people should point out are not religious answers, maybe she'll start to realise that god is irrelevant in the decisions she is making.
I hope so too - I think that her taking up of a religion was to get her through a crisis in her life. Too often this happens. The question will be whether she has become addicted or not. She thinks religion has given her strength and may fear she will lose that strength if she leaves the religion. Ironically it will now take a greater strength for her to do this.
@DyerVaper She mentions at some point in the panel that it was a death, but no further details. But still, your comment fully applies. There are many, many secular avenues and networks for help, on- and off-campus.
religion can be a very effective psychological crutch to help people find meaning and purpose in life, as was shown by the Muslim girl at the end. I'm sure a lot of people would be miserable and useless without some kind of faith to "point the way." I watched all these videos, including the dabate beforehand, and i still don't think it's right to try to take away someone's belief if they have had personal experience that the admit they cannot prove or explain. Wish i'd seen the end
"I'm sure a lot of people would be miserable and useless without some kind of faith to "point the way."
I disagree completely. I think some people might not currently have the tools for which to deal with reality head-on. But it's hardly healthy to walk around with a security blanket.
"i still don't think it's right to try to take away someone's belief"
impossible. You can only convince somebody to give up their belief. and I'm yet to meet somebody who feels worse off for it...
@blackplatypus you're being just as closed-minded as they are. Just because every converted atheist is happy with their decision doesn't mean it's right for everyone. Every converted Muslim and Christian is happy with their decision too, or they wouldn't have converted.
As for giving people the tools to live without faith, I think you underestimate the stupidity and laziness of a lot of these people. The best you can hope for is a "love thy neighbor" attitude toward other people.
We should teach people to stand on their own, as adult human beings, not to be dependent on emotional crutches and unable to cope with reality without them.
Education is important, as well. People will be able to explain things they didn't understand before, and will come to much more realistic views of the world when they learn proper skepticism. Why leave people with insane beliefs that are based on their ignorance and lack of critical thinking skills?
@Anon11674 A lot of people don't want to understand and feel no need to learn about why they may be wrong. If a person doesn't have the capacity or inclination to study or even think about these things there is no use beating your head against a wall with them. Just hope their favorite line by Jesus was "love thy neighbor" and move onto someone who might give a shit. There is no point in wasting time on the extreme cases, such as anyone who honestly believes God came to them personally.
I know there's no real hope for extreme cases. But there's a lot of potential cases that are leaning on crutches they think they need. We need to get to those ones and help them stand on their own.
ahhh! towards the end of the vid, I can tell that Matt was about to use the dagger. thank you for taking the time to upload these. i watched them all.
I wish they would've spent less time commending the Muslim girl for her "courage", and more time commenting on her stupidity. She said absolutely nothing of value. Her only input to the discussion was a waste of time.
Thanks for putting this up. Other than the Muslim girl, it was pretty interesting.
@ThePariahGame I agree. Her comments were just endless flow of "I believe, I believe, I think my religion says this" blah blah blah. Nothing of value at all. Matt should have pointed out at the start of that rant "We are not interested right now in what you believe but whether it is true or not. Provide some evidence and we can discuss about it".
@ThePariahGame I think she was very representative of theism, which is certainly relevant. She didn't have a lot to say about secular morality, but I think that's typical of theists, and she was definitely more courageous and open to discussion than your average Muslim woman. I think it's presumptuous to call her stupid, she seems to lack a certain level of intellectual development and she holds beliefs that are not well reasoned, but don't be too quick to judge her for that, we're all human.
@ThePariahGame I couldnt agree more. Her inability to formulate a coherent thought irritated me to the point that I couldnt even finish watching some of these videos. If being called on your stupid ideas and simply not throwing a tantrum is courage, than Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron should be national heroes.
Thanks for taking the time to film and post this. Fly on the wall is much better than never seeing it.
MegaZeusThor 3 months ago
I think this Muslim girl was kind of awesome, except when she got too nervous and started reflexively going all "WE'RE ALL AMERICANS AND GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT."
I think the room hit the perfect tense balance between dogpiling and . . . what, accommodation? Anyways, it was incredible to hear.
MishaVargas 11 months ago
The muslim girl is just like the priest in the debate. She talks and talks, but says absolutely nothing useful.
thach1ef 11 months ago
Thanks to everyone involved in making this available! Very interesting.
To the camera man - very good work.
jayvonier 1 year ago
I have to say, i thought the way the panel's two farthest members shouted down the muslim girl was uncalled for. Having said that, she didn't make a good case for her religious beliefs. seemed very much like a security blanket for her after the traumantic event in her life. still, props to her for not backign down and for answering the questions honestly.
TheMePerspective 1 year ago
Lovely panel. I salute the Muslim woman for her openness, but was saddened by her ability to answer questions that would imply that she was more moral than her god.
Kargoneth 1 year ago
HAVE MORE THAN ONE PERSON FILMING THEN YOU WON'T HAVE SUCH A PROBLEM IF A CAMERA GOES WRONG.. LEARN ALREADY, GOODNESS ME.
jameshanley40 1 year ago
@jameshanley40 We were lucky to have ONE person filming. It was arranged at the last minute, and the person filming was someone who volunteered his camera and time. We didn't put on the event for the purpose of getting it up to YouTube, so this is just what we've got.
secularUMBC 1 year ago 12
@secularUMBC
getting it on youtube is really important for reaching people.. including many serious listeners that are looking for this sort of thing. so it's a good idea to ask everybody if they can film.. then not have to rely on one person volunteering.
jameshanley40 1 year ago
@secularUMBC
Don't be a twat. Lots of people have a digital video camera, put a request out beforehand. You shouldn't have just waited for a volunteer. ASK PEOPLE. And i'm sure other people would've been willing to hold a camera So don't make such a big deal about somebody volunteering their time.. Everybody volunteered their time to come and listen. It's something they really wanted to do. And if you'd have asked they'd have been only too happy.
jameshanley40 1 year ago
@jameshanley40 you're a fucktard.
thach1ef 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@thach1ef
" you're a fucktard. " speak english you shit
jameshanley40 11 months ago
@jameshanley40 - How about microphones for each speaker to make the audio better? How about better seating for the panel and audience? How about an actual sound stage for better acoustics?
Jimmy... you're a douche.
besidemymind 1 year ago
They faded out the video because they didn't want to show the part where all the atheists killed the religious girl and sacrificed her body to satan.
SpaceSnatch 1 year ago
In the last few seconds it looks like Dr. Anderson is trying to start a 'Mexican Wave'.
Intiom 1 year ago
The thing she aludes to that made her cover up....man, thats so...damn.
AgenonTaeche 1 year ago
@DyerVaper Agreed. It's important to remember we're all family. We share the same natural passion and urge to defend what we value. Whether it's a theist defending their faith, an atheist defending their reason or a soldier defending their nation, it all comes from the same place inside of us. If we emphasize our connections over our differences, humanity can truly be united.
kyebean 1 year ago
The Muslim girl's main problem seems to be that she isn't very well taught in critical thinking. It's not that she doesn't recognize that logic and evidence should be used to form beliefs, it's that she thinks emotional reasons for beliefs can be just as valid.
I think a lot of religious people don't realize that their minds can produce extraordinary emotions and convictions, which feel supernatural, but which aren't.
Dianeva89 1 year ago
@Dianeva89 Yes, they only feel "supernatural" to a theist because religion has systematically and virulently hijacked the natural experiences that are at the core of what it means to be human.
kyebean 1 year ago
She was another data point attesting to the brain-damage that religion causes.
MichaelKingsfordGray 1 year ago
To anyone who's interested, Christopher Hitchens debated Tony Blair the other day. It was exceptionally good.
I watched these videos and that debate roughly around the same time, and enjoyed both, so I figured I'd let anyone know about the Hitchens/Blair debate who didn't already know.
ThePariahGame 1 year ago 2
Many thanks for these uploads.
Domzdream 1 year ago
I think muslims should just get over it and try pork. It's sooooo FUCKING good. How the hell does eating a pig effect your intellectual relationship with your deiety. Ever seen how dirty chickens are?
Domzdream 1 year ago
@Domzdream damn straight, also, catholic priests should get over their issues and try vagina, it's even better than pork. and a hell of a lot better than Justin Bieber's ass. tell you what, I'll call some girls, you bring the bacon, and let's convert some motherfuckers to atheism lol. We can start off with an orgy in the Sistine Chapel, and then head over to Mecca for a BBQ :]
kyebean 1 year ago
@kyebean
HAHAHA! Man that made me laugh.
Domzdream 1 year ago
I did get really frustrated once listening to someone talk on the phone in the library. The caller went on and on about how great her friend was doing at work and how pleased her boss was and she just got her second promotion etc., and it was all because she's so faithful and true to god. I wanted to shout "NO! Your friend is succeeding at her job because she's good at it! Don't insult her by giving the credit to someone else!" It drives me nuts.
RichardMNixon 1 year ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
no, youre friend is doing well because she sucked her bosses cock! dont associate that slut with my previous jesus. LULZ
Pelonetillo 1 year ago
Why did god let the camera run out of battery power? Also, why didn't an atheist bring a battery or charging cord?
Questions for the ages.
Lightrider4444 1 year ago
The statement about television being a large cause of the civil rights movement success is analogous to what the internet is doing with atheism today.
muzvh1 1 year ago
Noo! I want to hear the rest :(
Morphixx 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The muslim girl is not brave. She feels comfortable there because it's a secular debate. Another reason why religion is so insane. Let her profess her beliefs to some strict fundamentalist christians and I'll call her brave.
manaeldar 1 year ago
The muslim girl is not brave. She feels comfortable there because it's a secular debate. Another reason why religion is so insane. Let her profess her believes to some strict fundamentalist christians and I'll call her brave.
manaeldar 1 year ago
@manaeldar
Or a UK based atheist group.
Thinking that "it solved all my problems" is the biggest mistake she has made. Even if she thinks this, there is a price to pay because she is now not free to decide on anything that goes against islam, unless she decides to leave islam, and we all know what the punishment for that is.
muzvh1 1 year ago
@manaeldar indeed
FIGHTFANNERD3 7 months ago
Shame about the last 20 minutes. It was a good panel of experts talking a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing :)
Brascofarian 1 year ago
My opinion: All religious people must die. No evidence, too many assertions, too many gods, too many religions, too many denominations, too many religious texts and too much delusion. There are so many unsupported presuppositions in so many different religions, which makes humanity look really bad to any possible extraterrestrial civilizations that are more advanced. Religious people claim to "feel" their gods, but they wouldn't be able to without brains or else they would be dead.
XxC0NDEMNEDxX 1 year ago
@XxC0NDEMNEDxX Let's not forget that many (if not a majority) of atheists were former believers. Can you imagine how many future rational free-thinkers we'd be denying the world if we simply killed everyone who was currently religious?
jordanromaker 1 year ago
@jordanromaker That's why we must harness the power of space and time to travel to the future and figure out who is still religious, then we must travel back to the present and kill all who remain religious until they die. If we do that for every generation, religion can be greatly reduced and eventually destroyed. Now where did I put that matter-antimatter annihilation reactor? Can't travel through time without it.
XxC0NDEMNEDxX 1 year ago
@XxC0NDEMNEDxX
I hope you are speaking metaphorically otherwise you are thinking the same way as the people you want to die.
muzvh1 1 year ago
@muzvh1 Of course I was, but if you're up to date with current physics and other fields of science, you'll realize that time travel is being considered a big possibility and even mathematical formulas have been published to demonstrate its potentiality.
XxC0NDEMNEDxX 1 year ago
@DyerVaper
i thought you were talking about the rape she got in this discussion. oops
danielyeh 1 year ago
i was to congratulate myself for finishig this long panel... but 20 mins were missin LOL
JIZZZification 1 year ago
"Why I should help my mum. because I want to help her not because someone tells me too"
Religion has a list of rules were someone else (god) tells you to do things.
That part of her answer is how an atheist might answer. She gives a few answers that people should point out are not religious answers, maybe she'll start to realise that god is irrelevant in the decisions she is making.
Scarletpooky 1 year ago
To the young muslim:
"Meaning that's imposed by fiat isn't meaning, it's the whim of a dictator. Purpose that's imposed isn't purpose, it's a commandment." - Steve Zara
blackwolf1200 1 year ago
I'm confident the muslim girl has heard enough in this discussion to send her on a good path to lose religion and win a universe.
blackwolf1200 1 year ago
@blackwolf1200
I hope so too - I think that her taking up of a religion was to get her through a crisis in her life. Too often this happens. The question will be whether she has become addicted or not. She thinks religion has given her strength and may fear she will lose that strength if she leaves the religion. Ironically it will now take a greater strength for her to do this.
muzvh1 1 year ago
@DyerVaper She mentions at some point in the panel that it was a death, but no further details. But still, your comment fully applies. There are many, many secular avenues and networks for help, on- and off-campus.
secularUMBC 1 year ago 10
Damn i would have liked to see the last 20 minutes :(
bodybag22 1 year ago
Wait so she only started practicing that religion a few months ago? Well fuck that sort of explains a lot.
TekLok 1 year ago
will we ever get to see the last 20 minutes?
J3yblivion 1 year ago
religion can be a very effective psychological crutch to help people find meaning and purpose in life, as was shown by the Muslim girl at the end. I'm sure a lot of people would be miserable and useless without some kind of faith to "point the way." I watched all these videos, including the dabate beforehand, and i still don't think it's right to try to take away someone's belief if they have had personal experience that the admit they cannot prove or explain. Wish i'd seen the end
drawstho86 1 year ago
@drawstho86
"I'm sure a lot of people would be miserable and useless without some kind of faith to "point the way."
I disagree completely. I think some people might not currently have the tools for which to deal with reality head-on. But it's hardly healthy to walk around with a security blanket.
"i still don't think it's right to try to take away someone's belief"
impossible. You can only convince somebody to give up their belief. and I'm yet to meet somebody who feels worse off for it...
blackplatypus 1 year ago 3
@blackplatypus you're being just as closed-minded as they are. Just because every converted atheist is happy with their decision doesn't mean it's right for everyone. Every converted Muslim and Christian is happy with their decision too, or they wouldn't have converted.
As for giving people the tools to live without faith, I think you underestimate the stupidity and laziness of a lot of these people. The best you can hope for is a "love thy neighbor" attitude toward other people.
drawstho86 1 year ago
@drawstho86
We should teach people to stand on their own, as adult human beings, not to be dependent on emotional crutches and unable to cope with reality without them.
Education is important, as well. People will be able to explain things they didn't understand before, and will come to much more realistic views of the world when they learn proper skepticism. Why leave people with insane beliefs that are based on their ignorance and lack of critical thinking skills?
Anon11674 1 year ago
@Anon11674 A lot of people don't want to understand and feel no need to learn about why they may be wrong. If a person doesn't have the capacity or inclination to study or even think about these things there is no use beating your head against a wall with them. Just hope their favorite line by Jesus was "love thy neighbor" and move onto someone who might give a shit. There is no point in wasting time on the extreme cases, such as anyone who honestly believes God came to them personally.
drawstho86 1 year ago
@drawstho86
I know there's no real hope for extreme cases. But there's a lot of potential cases that are leaning on crutches they think they need. We need to get to those ones and help them stand on their own.
Anon11674 1 year ago
ahhh! towards the end of the vid, I can tell that Matt was about to use the dagger. thank you for taking the time to upload these. i watched them all.
lancevancedance 1 year ago
I wish they would've spent less time commending the Muslim girl for her "courage", and more time commenting on her stupidity. She said absolutely nothing of value. Her only input to the discussion was a waste of time.
Thanks for putting this up. Other than the Muslim girl, it was pretty interesting.
ThePariahGame 1 year ago 19
@ThePariahGame I agree. Her comments were just endless flow of "I believe, I believe, I think my religion says this" blah blah blah. Nothing of value at all. Matt should have pointed out at the start of that rant "We are not interested right now in what you believe but whether it is true or not. Provide some evidence and we can discuss about it".
Draugo 1 year ago
@ThePariahGame I think she was very representative of theism, which is certainly relevant. She didn't have a lot to say about secular morality, but I think that's typical of theists, and she was definitely more courageous and open to discussion than your average Muslim woman. I think it's presumptuous to call her stupid, she seems to lack a certain level of intellectual development and she holds beliefs that are not well reasoned, but don't be too quick to judge her for that, we're all human.
kyebean 1 year ago
@ThePariahGame I couldnt agree more. Her inability to formulate a coherent thought irritated me to the point that I couldnt even finish watching some of these videos. If being called on your stupid ideas and simply not throwing a tantrum is courage, than Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron should be national heroes.
Nucl3arTeacup 10 months ago
@ThePariahGame I agree, one "You've got balls kid and I respect that." was more than enough.
SonOfNye 7 months ago
Poetic quotes be they from Carl Sagan, Lawrence Krauss, and Neil deGrasse Tyson still speak to the connectiveness of us all.
Krauss: youtube.com/watch?v=VFMmzKDonRY
deGrasse: (giving a quote credit to Sagan) youtube.com/watch?v=QADMMmU6ab8
GameLogician 1 year ago
Likely story. Most likely, gawd was revealed in the last 20 minutes, and the tape has been destroyed to suppress the throoth.
harfharfful 1 year ago 27
@harfharfful Dammit, how did you know?
secularUMBC 1 year ago 11
@secularUMBC myabe he's present in the panel...
JIZZZification 1 year ago
@harfharfful ...true story?
daemonowner 1 year ago
@harfharfful
hehe. Ironically, that's not the true spelling of the word.
Domzdream 1 year ago